Ranged ammunition question

[GutterFace]

i know thrown weapons have a hardness and "hp".

but i cannot seem to find the hardness and "hp" or arrows,bolts and sling bullets/stones.

can anyone lend me a hand please?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I don't have a page number or anything, but this isn't hard to logic out.

Arrows and bolts are primarily a wooden shaft with bits attached to either end. That's hardness 5 for the material and maybe 1 or 2 hp's since we're talking about something that's not more than maybe 3/8 of an inch thick. Basically any sunder attempt that does more than 5hp damage will break it.

Sling bullets are typically lead pellets about an inch in diameter. That's about hardness 5 again, IIRC, and certainly not more than about 5hp.

Do remember though, that any ammunititon expended in a succesful attack is automatically ruined, and that any ammo expended in a failed attack has a 50% chance of being lost or destroyed regardless of the items' durability in any other context.

[GutterFace]

thanks for the post!

mostly i was worried/curious about ranged ammo passing through hazards like energy shields and barriers and other such nonsense.

[Kelb_Panthera]

thanks for the post!

mostly i was worried/curious about ranged ammo passing through hazards like energy shields and barriers and other such nonsense.

IME, that's not usually an issue. Most barriers either block the attack completely or the ammo goes through so quickly that it really shouldn't sustain any damage.

I can't think of any corner cases off the top of my head.

[Lapak]

IME, that's not usually an issue. Most barriers either block the attack completely or the ammo goes through so quickly that it really shouldn't sustain any damage.

I can't think of any corner cases off the top of my head.Wall of Fire comes to mind, though oddly enough that spell only lists itself as doing damage to creatures that pass through it. RAW seems to indicate that it doesn't stop missiles. (Well, beyond blocking line of sight, anyway.) I'd probably let it deal damage to arrows passing through it, though, and 2d6+clvl is more than enough to eat any normal arrow even after the reduction for applying energy damage to an object.

[Diarmuid]

Items in your possession avoid any damage from AE effects unless you roll a natural 1 on your save.



Items Surviving after a Saving Throw: Unless the descriptive text for the spell specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack deal.
If an item is not carried or worn and is not magical, it does not get a saving throw. It simply is dealt the appropriate damage.

[Ashtagon]

Personally, I'd rule that sling bullets don't break when used, except as a very low probability event. They may well be lost among the random detritus on the ground though.

[TuggyNE]

Wall of Fire comes to mind, though oddly enough that spell only lists itself as doing damage to creatures that pass through it. RAW seems to indicate that it doesn't stop missiles. (Well, beyond blocking line of sight, anyway.) I'd probably let it deal damage to arrows passing through it, though, and 2d6+clvl is more than enough to eat any normal arrow even after the reduction for applying energy damage to an object.

Common sense suggests, I think, that the speed of an arrow's flight prevents the wall from doing more than perhaps igniting the arrow (free flaming! woo!); 200+fps is quite impressive, after all.


Personally, I'd rule that sling bullets don't break when used, except as a very low probability event. They may well be lost among the random detritus on the ground though.

... Well, how does that change the 50% number? Arrows and bolts as likely to break as to be lost, and sling bullets are more likely to be lost than broken, but they probably add up to about the same percentage. (Whether 50% is even vaguely correct, of course, is another matter, and I'm a little dubious.)

[Lapak]

Common sense suggests, I think, that the speed of an arrow's flight prevents the wall from doing more than perhaps igniting the arrow (free flaming! woo!); 200+fps is quite impressive, after all.I'd agree with you except for the sheer amount of fire damage it pumps out on a pass-through implies either supernaturally high heat, magically-aided transference of heat, or thickness - a normal Commoner running through a minimum-CL Wall of Fire it at top speed would be dead before he hit the other side. Not just in negative hit points; charred-corpse-falling-through-the-wall below-10 dead. :smallamused:

[TuggyNE]

I'd agree with you except for the sheer amount of fire damage it pumps out on a pass-through implies either supernaturally high heat, magically-aided transference of heat, or thickness - a normal Commoner running through a minimum-CL Wall of Fire it at top speed would be dead before he hit the other side. Not just in negative hit points; charred-corpse-falling-through-the-wall below-10 dead. :smallamused:

Sure. But an arrow has 5 hardness and say 1 hit point; a Commoner has 2 or 3 HP and no hardness, and moves at up to 20fps. Reducing the damage by a factor of ten, or even five (not implausible, when the arrow is moving at least ten times as fast) means even a max-CL wall can hardly ever damage it.

[Ashtagon]

... Well, how does that change the 50% number? Arrows and bolts as likely to break as to be lost, and sling bullets are more likely to be lost than broken, but they probably add up to about the same percentage. (Whether 50% is even vaguely correct, of course, is another matter, and I'm a little dubious.)

Because a broken arrow/bolt is useless. A "lost" slingstone can be found with a Search check. In most areas, a Search check can probably find a stone suitable for use as a slingstone even when you didn't use one in the area.

[Solophoenix]

Arrows and bolts as likely to break as to be lost, and sling bullets are more likely to be lost than broken, but they probably add up to about the same percentage. (Whether 50% is even vaguely correct, of course, is another matter, and I'm a little dubious.)

Using modern carbon fibre arrows, and a 50lb bow, I find that any arrow that misses the target on a grassy field can be an absolute pain to find again, I've spent well over 20 minutes searching for one arrow, and while I've always found them again, I doubt any character who can get them at 20 to the gold piece would bother. As for breaking, I try to only shoot in areas where the arrows don't have anything hard to hit, but every time I've managed to screw up and hit something solid and dense, like the head of a sledgehammer (long story), the arrows have broken instantly.

[GutterFace]

Sure. But an arrow has 5 hardness and say 1 hit point; a Commoner has 2 or 3 HP and no hardness, and moves at up to 20fps. Reducing the damage by a factor of ten, or even five (not implausible, when the arrow is moving at least ten times as fast) means even a max-CL wall can hardly ever damage it.

regardless of how fast it moves if it moves through a space of 'danger' it is still dealt damage right? and would be deal damage based on the Dc not on a fraction based on movement speed?

otherwise people would charge through dangerous stuff and claim only a fraction of the damage...

[TuggyNE]

regardless of how fast it moves if it moves through a space of 'danger' it is still dealt damage right? and would be deal damage based on the Dc not on a fraction based on movement speed?

otherwise people would charge through dangerous stuff and claim only a fraction of the damage...

By RAW, sure, you can't reduce damage by going fast. However, by RAW an arrow doesn't take damage from wall of fire anyway: the whole thing is a houserule. Also, most of the time you can handwave it away as being not really fast enough to make a difference; it's only when you get into really cheesy movement speeds that any serious problems could start, and then you can just blame the cheese.

Also solophoenix, I occasionally shoot aluminum arrows from a 45-lb recurve at dilapidated strawbales; never managed to break one, despite accidentally hitting wooden pallets. (Loss is occasional, but not severe; more common is shooting by mistake into poison oak, which then requires tedious washing.)

[Solophoenix]

Also solophoenix, I occasionally shoot aluminum arrows from a 45-lb recurve at dilapidated strawbales; never managed to break one, despite accidentally hitting wooden pallets. (Loss is occasional, but not severe; more common is shooting by mistake into poison oak, which then requires tedious washing.)

Wood tends to be ok for me too, in fact I managed to destroy my university medieval society's archery target when I shot an arrow through one of the legs, the arrow was fine :smalltongue:. However, in a standard dungeon environment, you're likely to be hitting stone if you miss, which is not quite so forgiving.