PF - Swift Action Cure X Wounds

[nbates]

TL;DR; Do you think allowing a healer to cast "Cure Wounds" spells as a swift action once per round would break the game in a very un-optimized group?

My group just finished a campaign and I'm about to start as DM for 5 players.

A problem we had was that the players and DM felt that the group ABSOLUTELY required a cleric for healing purposes. So one player felt they were a little pigeon-holed into the role and didn't have as much fun as I think they could have.

Since I'm going to be DMing, I plan to be a little more open-minded in this regard and suggest to them that they don't NEED a cleric just for those purposes. Sure they can play one and do plenty of other things, but I certainly won't require it. I could add plenty of potions, scrolls, wands, misc. effects, etc.

I am going to suggest the following house rule: "Clerics, Paladins, Oracles and Druids may cast single-target “Cure Wounds” spells on themselves or an ally as a swift action, once per round. This ability does not stack with any other ability that grants the same bonus, and requires that the user actually have the cure spell memorized."

Perhaps there is no point in restricting what classes can do it.

Please keep in mind that this group does not optimize whatsoever. There isn't a single min/maxer in the group nor would they even bother trying. They just like to hang out and play D&D on the weekends. I thought this rule might help should they still feel the need to bring along a healy-type so they can do more than just heal.

Do any of you have any insight on the possible problems this might cause later on in the game? I don't see any major issues, but thought I would ask.

Thank you for taking the time to read!

[Andreaz]

"Swift action once per round" is redundant. Characters only get one swift action per round.

Otherwise go right ahead, that's a much needed boost for those casters that wade into mele.


Won't solve the healing problems, though, but that's not going to be solved mid-combat.
Truly, most healing happens after combat, and it can be done simply by wands.

[Wagadodo]

You might also consider adding healing belts to your game at the price it was listed in the 3.5 Games. I don't think there was ever a game that I played in that I at some time didn't have it.

I think it held three charges that refreshed each day. For one charge you healed 2d8, two charges 3d8, three charges 4d8. And at any time that your character fell into the negatives it would expend all the charges to heal you. And if I remember right it was swift or move action to activate.

[docnessuno]

Yes.

While swift Cure X migh not be a problem in an optimized group (where the usefulness of in-combat heals is minimal), aloowing it without any serious drawback would be a major boost in an unoptimized enviroment.

That said, something like that is already doable in PF, take a look at the Oracle and the Life mistery. Also remember that in PF Clerics, some oracles and paladins have access to reliable and effective AoE healing (channel) wich, with a minimal feat investment, can suit most of the group's needs.

[Almaseti]

PF paladins can already swift action heal themselves with LoH, and metamagic rods of quicken spell exist in pathfinder (though they are a bit on the pricey side) already. It's also kinda like giving them quicken spell for free, but limited to cure spells, which when you look at it that way is pretty significant.

I would note that this sounds like it's likely to burn through the healer's spell slots quickly.

Also, I'd echo that bit about looking into Oracle of Life with Life Link - as long as the link is active, the other players are healed automatically at the cost of your own hp.

[Karoht]

No different than Swift Action Lay On Hands from Paladins.

[ericgrau]

It's different from existing options because it's a greater healing amount and provides more uses per day.

It would break action economy and in an unoptimized group it will be far more powerful to play a cleric or oracle than anything else. Especially a melee cleric or oracle since he can conserve spell slots by hitting things, but if you have few enough encounters per day then any kind of cleric or oracle will dominate.

Think of it this way: In 3 rounds of combat you could 1.5 x level in d8s plus 3x caster level hp. Roughly equal to the hp of a fighter or barbarian with 16 con. That's doubling the hp of a barbarian and tripling the hp of another class for no action cost. Is that game breaking in your gaming group? If the group is unoptimized that's probably way beyond broken. Next if monsters start doing it then all hp damage from the party will be meaningless, as is any class that relies on hp damage. Do you want to negate all those classes?

I did a focused healer in PF which was pretty fun to build but it required some optimization. What you can do is make sure at least 1 player brings in a wand of cure light wounds. That will handle between battle healing. During combat any such player can focus on melee or other spells and only heal in emergencies. Then he can build whatever he wants.

[Ashtagon]

I honestly can't see any negative consequences from making the entire cure series of spells swift action by default. Ditto for inflict, but only in cases where the target is willing. In other words, they can be used to heal as a swift action, but used offensively they remain a standard action.

[NinjaInTheRye]

Would it still provoke an AoO?

When you say "memorized" do you mean prepared, so that a Cleric's spontaneous cure spells couldn't be used this way?

If those answers are "yes" I can't see it being too much of an issue.

[Ashtagon]

Would it still provoke an AoO?

When you say "memorized" do you mean prepared, so that a Cleric's spontaneous cure spells couldn't be used this way?

If those answers are "yes" I can't see it being too much of an issue.

I'd even be happy with spontaneous cure (inflict) spells being used to heal live (undead) targets.

[Andreaz]

Would it still provoke an AoO?Swift action spells don't provoke.

[Ashtagon]

The fact that you used spell slot for a sub-optimal task (in-combat healing) is penalty enough. No further opportunity cost is needed.

[nbates]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I'm not trying to solve the healing problem, just trying to prevent someone from feeling bored when they're playing a character that is expected by the others to heal them in combat.

Healing belts sound like a good idea, I'll look into that.

I imagine that since this is already somewhat doable in Pathfinder, it won't be too much of a problem adding it at earlier levels to a couple more classes. Nobody in this group is interested in Paladin.

Only PCs will have access to this house rule.

Yes, I meant prepared, not memorized. Thank you. I fully expect a cleric to be able to use this rule with spontaneous casting.

Thanks again for commenting, everyone. :smallsmile: I'll post again if I find any real problems with this rule in my game.

[Andreaz]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I'm not trying to solve the healing problem, just trying to prevent someone from feeling bored when they're playing a character that is expected by the others to heal them in combat.Don't let that expectation grow too much. Healing in combat is boring and ineffective by and large, and getting people to tell you what to do...ugh XD


That said, have you seen the Vitalist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes)? It's probably the best class to give any focus on healing, and is useful way past that. It's a full caster focused on buffs, healing, debuffs and control.

[Grommen]

Would not see a problem with this.

I'm more interested in knowing why your player didn't like playing a cleric. They are one of my more favorite characters. You have a built in back story, faith, great list of spells, and your almost always in need in a party.

Each is own I guess.

[ericgrau]

A healer is nice in spite of what a lot of people think, but I can agree with those same people that he's not essential. If no one wants to play a healer then don't have one. Hand out wands of cure light wounds and you're all set. Any ranger, paladin, cleric, druid or oracle can use them. Even the first two classes can at level 1.

I know most people don't seem to notice action economy issues, but making any major standard action into a swift action is a Big Deal and hugely powerful. I wouldn't do it, especially when the group isn't that optimized. The short explanation is that having 2 turns is twice as powerful as having 1 turn.

[VeGaS1986]

Making healing spells swift doesnt really remove the biggest problem here, namely the whole "noone wants to be the healer" part. Doing it as a swift action wont change that I imagine.

Another option would be to port over 4th Editions Healing Surges. Would give everyone their own little "in combat" heal, while letting them heal outside combat to some extent.

You could also include the "Masterworked Potion Belt". I think it was a 3.0 item (or maybe I invented it, cant really remember after all these years) that basically had 6 slots for potions, and if you retrieved the potion from it, you only needed a standard action to drink it. Would let people move around the battlefield while healing themselves, and also doesnt shatter the action economy. Costs 350 gold.

But yeah, outside spells like heal or aoe healing, "in combat" healing is bad and shouldnt be relied on. Having healing readily and easily available promotes sloppy play without fun things (like a barbarian trying to leap over the front line to charge the wizard early to spare the team from his spells), because why risk this crazy move, when I can just mow through the enemy that is available, because im getting spam healed.

[nbates]

I agree that healing in combat is boring and ineffective, but that's how they like to play and I'm not going to try to tell them how they should play. I just thought I would make it easier for them to do. Thanks for the tip about the Vitalist, though. I'll let them know about it.

The player didn't like the cleric because she played it as if she was meant to heal only. She didn't think to play offensely at all, even though she had the fire domain. I think I saw her cast fireball twice :smallsmile: She always saved it for "when it was needed" even though fireballs are ALWAYS needed :smalltongue:

I didn't want to bring in the 4E Healing Surge, because I feel it has the same issue. You're still giving up your standard action for the round (Disclaimer: I never played 4E and only listened to the Penny Arcade podcasts and read the player's handbook, so I could be totally wrong with my assumption). I also didn't want everyone to have this swift healing capability, only the classes that can cast cure wounds. I feel that it allows the players to take more risks and have more fun (such as the barbarian example you mentioned) because they know they have a better chance of surviving. The healer probably won't be able to "spam heals" in this situation because they probably won't be able to keep up with the barbarian. This group doesn't take risks, as shown by their "need" to have a dedicated-ish healer.

Thanks again for your comments everyone!

[DrDeth]

Healing in combat is exciting and critical. In combat healing should be used when it is the best tactical option.

[ericgrau]

Your players are convinced that a focused healer is essential and nobody wants to be the healer. You need a way to provide the healing without boring anybody. Drop in an NPC healer and problem solved. He's already in a support role but if you want to make extra sure he's not a DMPC taking the spotlight away from the party then put him 1 or 2 levels behind the party, only give him a half share of treasure and let him level up without taking away a share of xp from the PCs. Similar to leadership. Or give him less than that. Or make him an adept.

[Karoht]

Get a Cleric.
Take the feats Quicken Channel and Selective Channel. High Charisma is a good idea. Or just go Life Oracle.
Channel as a move action. Take other actions as appropriate.
Problem mostly solved.

Though I am of the mind that Swift Cure X is largely no different than the Swift Lay on Hands from a Paladin, just with different scaling and dice involved.

NPC/DMPC is a decent enough solution.