Keep a Binder Okay for E6?

[silverwolfer]

I know some folks think that 5th and 6th level is sort of a dead point for binders as far as vistiages go, I was wondering if folks would pick a binder for a e6 game or would it start feeling a little tight, in what you are allowed to do.

[limejuicepowder]

I would be inclined to say Yes, it's a bit of a bad spot for the binder. Binder doesn't get to bind two vestiges until level 8, and only binding one when the character needs to match 3rd level spells and multiple attacks will be tough.

As a full disclosure I've never played a binder, so this is pure speculation.

I'd recommend binder as a dip for a build that doesn't plan on getting to +6 Bab; in that role binder would still be very strong.

[Feralventas]

My understanding of E6 is that the characters plateau at 6th level, and gain a new feat at a certain amount of xp after that 6th level rather than proceeding to 7th level, and continue to do so from that point forward. If I'm incorrect in that assumption, ignore the rest of this as I'm basing advice on this presumption.

The Improved Binding feat increases your effective Binder level by 2, which I think might qualify you for additional vestiges as well as allowing the second binding.

Alternatively, you could construct a feat to allow access to an additional vestige on each acquisition of the feat, as a 'caster gains extra spells known or spell slots after 6th level. Maybe a feat to switch out vestiges 1/day, stacking likewise.

This would allow a player to gain high level vestiges, but since they're based on Binder Level (which would never exceed 6 (or 8)) it wouldn't be Too damaging.

For example, Orthos, Sovereign of the Howling Dark, offers
1d6/level damage cone with knockback
Blindsense
Whispering Winds
50% miss chance.

But one would need to get access to feats for 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th level vestiges before getting access. In the mean time, a fighter's gotten plenty of combat feats to chain one effect after another, the Rogue's got lots of nifty tricks, and the casters have picked up plenty as well.

[eggs]

Level 6 Binders have a hard time. I'd lean toward adding a feat with harsh prereqs to bind a second vestige.

[Psyren]

It's not that bad - at level 6, Binders get fear immunity and two pact augmentations, which can given them benefits like +4 insight to initiative, DR 2/-, +2 to all saves or resist {element} 10. I would say abilities like that would be handy in a low-magic E6 environment. With Improved Binding, they also get 4th-level vestiges; this gives them Chameleon-like crafting ability with Astaroth, unlimited turning + see in magical darkness from Tenebrous, or Smite (and some proficiencies) from Andras. Though you would be fine in most fights just binding Focalor and throwing 3d6 supernatural lightning all day long.

For utility, you could craft items with Astaroth, then use them with Karsus, or take the Shape Soulmeld feat for a pair of Mage's Spectacles when you don't feel like binding the latter.

[prufock]

If you can take Improved Binding, at level 6 you'll have max vestige level of 4 and 2 vestiges at a time, unless your group decides that e6 means you can't gain abilities above 6th level period. I don't think level 6 is a bad spot to be.

[Psyren]

Improved Binding does not give you multiple vestiges by RAW:


Your effective binder level is 2 higher than normal for the purpose of determining the level of vestige you can bind. This benefit does not increase your binder level in any other circumstance.

I'd be fine with this as a houserule personally (since it rewards single-classed E6 Binders) but there it is.

[limejuicepowder]

It's not that bad - at level 6, Binders get fear immunity and two pact augmentations, which can given them benefits like +4 insight to initiative, DR 2/-, +2 to all saves or resist {element} 10. I would say abilities like that would be handy in a low-magic E6 environment. With Improved Binding, they also get 4th-level vestiges; this gives them Chameleon-like crafting ability with Astaroth, unlimited turning + see in magical darkness from Tenebrous, or Smite (and some proficiencies) from Andras. Though you would be fine in most fights just binding Focalor and throwing 3d6 supernatural lightning all day long.

For utility, you could craft items with Astaroth, then use them with Karsus, or take the Shape Soulmeld feat for a pair of Mage's Spectacles when you don't feel like binding the latter.

If this analysis is correct, and I think it is, I would only recommend a binder to a high-OP player in a low-OP game who doesn't want to break the game but still wants to have fun with some number crunching.

The problem with the binder is this: they only have access to one vestige at a time. With some amount of difficulty (and a feat), they can switch the vestige. Thus, they might have a huge list of abilities...but less than 5% of them can be used at any one time. The basic binder chassis isn't great or weak, so choosing the correct vestige is everything. If the binder chooses to specialize in one vestige, then they will probably be a weak version of whatever kind of character that vestige allows - and that's all they would be able to do. This I think would lead to them being a 5th wheel type of character - useful, but lacking.

For an E6 game, I would definitely support some type of feat that would allow them to bind 2 vestiges. This would change everything; now the binder can take on two roles at a time, giving them a flexibility advantage over the character that choose to specialize in one of the two.

This has given me a thought however: has anyone written any E6 specific feats that require 2 feats at a time to get? For example, getting access to higher level class abilities that would otherwise be unattainable would probably be worth spending both of the bonus feats on. I would make it something like:

Paragon Training
To take this feat, the character have a ECL of 6 and have 2 feats to take. Both feats are spent to this feat. This feat may only be taken by single-class characters.
Benefit: Choose 1 level 10 (or lower) class ability for the character's class. The character gains the benefit of that ability.

[Madara]

Eh, Binders are actually pretty well off. I would compare them to Warlocks, since they don't have as much resource management to worry about, which is a large portion of E6. In addition, they maintain a fair amount of versatility. So in general, Binders are pretty well off in E6, they probably move up the totem poll a bit, especially if you can get an early entry PrC.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I don't know much about e6; but don't they have some sort of capstone feats that give them higher level abilities if you stick to one class? I recall that the fighter's capstone feat allowed him to act as if he had BAB+8 for the purpose of qualifying for feats. In the same vein I would allow a Binder 6 to take his capstone feat and allow him to bind two vestiges at once.

[Zonugal]

I think within the scope & domain of E6 it is always a better option to do a build like Wizard 2/Binder 1/Anima Mage 3* than Binder 6.

* Or any of the other adaptations of Anima Mage (Anima Priest, Anima Psion, ect...)