New class advice - Witch

[barna10]

So, this is my attempt to make a class around the "Witch" alternate spell list from the DMG. It is intended to be on-par with the Beguiler, Warmage, and Dread Necro.

I think it needs another ability at first level to help with defense (since it cannot wear/cast in armor and lack of defensive spells). Any ideas? Also, any other input or criticism is welcome.

Witch class (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/40282100/Witch.docx)

[barna10]

I am thinking of giving the class the ability to use a few invocations. Overpowered?

[ngilop]

have you looked at the DMG pg 175 spell list?

its already better than the warmage dread necro and beguiler


as the spells that allow one to break the game< alter self, polymoprh any object, shapechange. are all on it


then there is the fact that you basiclyl give them persiatant spell for free so POW they get all day long duration of afermentioned spells.

if you are aiming for tier 3/4 well, you missed it by 1 the witch is already close enough to tier 2 and with you buffing to an extreme what are game breaking abilities already well...

You could have just left the witch as is and she would be tier 3 at the least and on par with the very same classes youa re trying to balance against.

[barna10]

have you looked at the DMG pg 175 spell list?

its already better than the warmage dread necro and beguiler


as the spells that allow one to break the game< alter self, polymoprh any object, shapechange. are all on it


then there is the fact that you basiclyl give them persiatant spell for free so POW they get all day long duration of afermentioned spells.

if you are aiming for tier 3/4 well, you missed it by 1 the witch is already close enough to tier 2 and with you buffing to an extreme what are game breaking abilities already well...

You could have just left the witch as is and she would be tier 3 at the least and on par with the very same classes youa re trying to balance against.

First, I don't pay attention to the "tier" stuff people throw around (is there even an actual rating system, or is it all subjective?) Second, Shapechange I can see frightening people, but please explain to me how Alter Self breaks the game (or polymorph for that matter)?

[RFLS]

Two things. One- This (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch) might help.

Two- In answer to the below quote, here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0) is the OP concerning tiers. If you're not going to read it, the gist of it is that classes are sorted into tiers based on how many problems they can solve and how effective they are at solving them. You might want to pay attention to that "tier" stuff if you want to understand some of the advice you'll be given while homebrewing.


First, I don't pay attention to the "tier" stuff people throw around (is there even an actual rating system, or is it all subjective?)

[barna10]

Thanks. I had seen the Pathfinder Witch but hadn't read it. It works for what I wanted, quite well.

On the other note though, someone please explain why Alter Self is considered such a "game breaker".

[Psyren]

Thanks. I had seen the Pathfinder Witch but hadn't read it. It works for what I wanted, quite well.

On the other note though, someone please explain why Alter Self is considered such a "game breaker".

It's not - it's just really powerful for a 2nd-level spell. Polymorph is where shapeshifting actually gets broken.

AS is a toolbox - you can get movement modes, skill bonuses, defenses, disguises, size changes, and even natural weapons, all with the same 2nd-level slot, and for 10m/level to boot.

[barna10]

I've got to say, the Pathfinder Witch is about 10x's as powerful as my creation...

[Psyren]

Pathfinder in general has stronger player classes. (Well, stronger casting classes anyway.) Most if not all were given class features that scale with level. To balance this, many spells were nerfed, including the aforementioned Alter Self.

If I may suggest - if you wanted to put something together for others to critique like you did in the opening post, could you throw it into a Google Doc or paste it directly into the thread next time? Not everyone is keen on downloading files from strangers.