Increase Skill ranks

[Pandyman]

I know there's that feat from City Scape that increases maximum skill ranks by 1, are there any other feats like this. I'm sure that the answer is no, because early entry to prestige classes can be a silly thing lol.

[Glimbur]

Not that I know of, and I spent some time with folks who like the optimization. They usually endorse gaining temporary hit dice through... shenanigans. Then psychic reformation to slide your skill points around, because there are no provisions for what happens when you lose the temporary HD.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

To add to what Glimbur was saying, the usual trick is to get a bard to Inspire Greatness, granting you 2 or 4 bonus HD to allow for cheating the maximum.

[Pandyman]

These are indeed the kind of shenanigans I was looking for.

[Curmudgeon]

To add to what Glimbur was saying, the usual trick is to get a bard to Inspire Greatness, granting you 2 or 4 bonus HD to allow for cheating the maximum.
Skill points aren't provided by Inspire Greatness.
A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice (d10s), the commensurate number of temporary hit points (apply the target’s Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice), a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus Hit Dice count as regular Hit Dice for determining the effect of spells that are Hit Dice dependant. As Thrice Dead Cat pointed out, this will only allow you to recalculate your maximum skill ranks allowed. You'll have to look elsewhere for the skill points to reach those new maxima.

[Pandyman]

As Thrice Dead Cat pointed out, this will only allow you to recalculate your maximum skill ranks allowed. You'll have to look elsewhere for the skill points to reach those new maxima.

If this buff could be maintained, by say persisting it over and over again, for the time required to retrain skill points. Could retraining be used to relocate ranks to this skill?

[hewhosaysfish]

Glimbur mentioned Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm); use Insipire Greatness to raise your skill cap then use this to take skill points out of one skill and add them to another.

[mattie_p]

Why not combine with heroics + DCFS -> Open Minded (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#openMinded), giving you as many skill points to fill any ranks up to your new maximum?

[Glimbur]

There are also a few monsters (Barghest and Dusk Giant, iirc) that can gain HD as an ability. With the right spell, that ability can be yours. The problem is that then you have all these monster hit dice lying around. One could argue that gaining negative levels and then failing the save so they are permanent will deal with this.

[Hirax]

Yeah, Dusk Giants are the classic way to really abuse skill points. Just the same as inspire greatness, it takes advantage of the lack of the rule saying you need to adhere to new skill point caps when you lose hit dice. So all you need to do is polymorph into a dusk giant, eat lots and lots of chickens (or whatever), and you'll get a lot of free hit dice for the duration of the polymorph, which grant skill point, and everything else you'd normally gain through advancement (feats, hit points, etc.).

[Pandyman]

Why not combine with heroics + DCFS -> Open Minded (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#openMinded), giving you as many skill points to fill any ranks up to your new maximum?

I actually don't think that Open Minded would work in that manner, simply because the feat's effect hinges directly on your character level rather than HD.

Otherwise a lot of these are good. I'm thinking the psychic reformation might be the easiest way to go about doing this.

Though Salve of timelessness(or whatever that item in the DMG is) plus a potion of Heroics should make heroics last long enough cheaply to relocate skills with retraining skill points.

[Morithias]

There's the laborious training feat in Legacy of Blood (Ravenloft) that boosts your max ranks in all intelligence based skills by 2.

[St Fan]

The Bloodlines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) variant rules allows "bloodline levels" that can increase your max skill ranks while not really changing your ECL, up to 3 for a major bloodline.

It's certainly the easiest (and most legal way, compared to any of the aforementioned shenanigans that will certainly be refused by a sane GM) to raise max ranks, although if it's for early entry in a prestige class, it's probable only the first bloodline level (before level 3) which will count.

As mentioned, the "primary contact" (http://dndtools.eu/feats/cityscape--53/primary-contact--2239/) feat from Cityscape is another good way, although it cost 2 feats (it has a prerequisite) and can only be taken once. The retraining rules from the PHB2 are very handy in this case.

Combining the two above and you can have up to 2 skill ranks beyond what your character level allow (only in one skill) or 1 skill rank for all skills at level 3.

[mattie_p]

I actually don't think that Open Minded would work in that manner, simply because the feat's effect hinges directly on your character level rather than HD.

Umm, other than the extreme cheese, I don't see why not. Open minded gives you 5 skill points to immediately use as normal.


Your maximum rank in a class skill is your character level + (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/skillsSummary.htm)3.

Let's check character level.


character level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_characterlevel&alpha=C)
A character's total level. For a character with levels in only one class, class level and character level are the same thing.

We can run this down all the way, but let's cut it short. ECL = hit dice + LA. Which means that when you have inspire greatness active, because your hit dice increase, anything dependent on your hit dice increase as well. I don't like it, I don't allow that particular application, but thems the RAW.

[animewatcha]

When it comes to bloodline levels. Do bloodlines count toward ECL? Cause I hardly ever see bloodline levels done in builds presented here, minmax, or elsewhere.

[Rizban]

Yeah, Dusk Giants are the classic way to really abuse skill points. Just the same as inspire greatness, it takes advantage of the lack of the rule saying you need to adhere to new skill point caps when you lose hit dice. So all you need to do is polymorph into a dusk giant, eat lots and lots of chickens (or whatever), and you'll get a lot of free hit dice for the duration of the polymorph, which grant skill point, and everything else you'd normally gain through advancement (feats, hit points, etc.).

Do this but take your first level as Commoner and take the Chicken Infested flaw. Produce infinite chickens and gain infinite hit dice.

Then, since you're a caster anyway, produce an infinite number of chickens, cast greater consumptive field and gain infinite caster level boosts.

1
A bloodline level is a level adjustment level. You get special abilities and increase certain class features as though you gained a level, and your XP requirements for leveling up are as if you gained a level, but you do not gain HD, BAB, Saves, or other level based things.

Bloodlines are effectively templates with level adjustment that spread out the benefits and costs over several levels.

[Pandyman]

We can run this down all the way, but let's cut it short. ECL = hit dice + LA. Which means that when you have inspire greatness active, because your hit dice increase, anything dependent on your hit dice increase as well. I don't like it, I don't allow that particular application, but thems the RAW.

Ah, indeed. I guess you would just need a chaos shuffle for the feat then.