Pathfinder Online

[Tanuki Tales]

So, I open up one of my older email accounts today to check on some of the stuff I still have attached to it (in this case my Paizo account) and I see this wonderful little email from Paizo trying to solicit my support of a new project they've started in earnest.

The Pathfinder MMO so far holds promise in my eyes. The graphics are on par with DnD Online, so nothing spectacular there yet and also nothing horrid. But what really is getting me excited about this project is that they're promising a never ending, reactive sandbox world for you to play around in. No level caps, no endgame and content that is meant to be explored over the course of real world years, not months. The environment is going to evolve and be shaped by the player's actions and as they're selling it so far, you will see "kingdoms rise and fall".



So, what is everyone's thoughts so far on this?

[Maxios]

I like the sound of this :smallbiggrin:

[Tanuki Tales]

I like the sound of this :smallbiggrin:

As do I.

I know absolutely nothing about Golarion though, because, honestly, I haven't played a real session of any tabletop game in sometime over three years now. :smallfrown:

So it'll be great to get immersed in a growing, reactive world again.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

This sounds interesting... if they have a solid plan for a dynamic world. The biggest asset in a GM's toolbox (if they're trying to make a dynamic world) is their own creativity combined with a small player base. If there's going to be thousands of players in the game, that makes dynamism a little harder to achieve.

Still, from what I hear, EVE Online manages this...

[Tanuki Tales]

This sounds interesting... if they have a solid plan for a dynamic world. The biggest asset in a GM's toolbox (if they're trying to make a dynamic world) is their own creativity combined with a small player base. If there's going to be thousands of players in the game, that makes dynamism a little harder to achieve.

Still, from what I hear, EVE Online manages this...

Well, from what I saw in their sales pitch, they are planning to use the direct feedback, opinions and advice of their Alpha and Beta Testers to shape the sandbox world of PO. So that can help with making it more dynamic when you having at least dozens, if not hundreds, of different individuals helping to shape the flowing reactive narrative.

[Eldariel]

From my experience in PFSociety, Golarion appears to be a relatively workable RP world so while not as interesting as Eberron (I find DDO didn't really utilize most of Eberron's awesome to its fullest though, at least back when I played) it should make for a good, basic platform for something like this.

I, for my part, am looking forward to it though I doubt I'll switch over from Lord of the Rings Online myself.

[Arbane]

I hope they have a business plan that doesn't involve them being the next World of Warcraft. Because I'm pretty sure the next World of Warcraft is going to be...World of Warcraft.

[Hazzardevil]

This sounds interesting, but it would be broken over players knee's as soon as the people who tend to bring out the horrible side of MMO's.

[Tanuki Tales]

This sounds interesting, but it would be broken over players knee's as soon as the people who tend to bring out the horrible side of MMO's.

Wouldn't they just be the evil aligned players? :smallamused:

[pffh]

Wouldn't they just be the evil aligned players? :smallamused:

If it's going to have anything close to the freedom of EVE than that will mean a fairly large portion of the playerbase and all the most powerful/influential people will be part of those evil aligned players.

[Tanuki Tales]

If it's going to have anything close to the freedom of EVE than that will mean a fairly large portion of the playerbase and all the most powerful/influential people will be part of those evil aligned players.

How so?

Stupid 10 character limit.

[pffh]

How so?

Stupid 10 character limit.

Best way to gain power and wealth is be taking it from someone else either by force or by wits.

[Tanuki Tales]

Best way to gain power and wealth is be taking it from someone else either by force or by wits.

Ah.

But is that necessarily "evil"?

I was assuming Hazzardevil was talking about the normal negative gamer behavior that would devolve PCs into Blood-thirsty sociopathic kleptomaniac hobbos who only care about who has the bigger "e-sword".

[Wyntonian]

As I've said about every MMO in the last two or three years, this could either be really cool or make me want to claw my eyes out. We'll see.

[Tanuki Tales]

As I've said about every MMO in the last two or three years, this could either be really cool or make me want to claw my eyes out. We'll see.

Well, Paizo has a better track record with listening to its community than some, so I have mid to high hopes with the project so far.

[Hazzardevil]

Ah.

But is that necessarily "evil"?

I was assuming Hazzardevil was talking about the normal negative gamer behavior that would devolve PCs into Blood-thirsty sociopathic kleptomaniac hobbos who only care about who has the bigger "e-sword".

This is exactly the sort of people I was referring to, not to mention the Call of Duty Fandumb.

[Lost Demiurge]

I think that trying to build an ambitious MMO on a budget of just one million is an exercise in optimism. Still, I'm not gonna write them off. Won't give them my money, but if they can do it hey good on'em. If it's a good game, I'll even purchase it when it comes out.

[Tanuki Tales]

I think that trying to build an ambitious MMO on a budget of just one million is an exercise in optimism. Still, I'm not gonna write them off. Won't give them my money, but if they can do it hey good on'em. If it's a good game, I'll even purchase it when it comes out.

One million just means we'll see the game by ~2015-2016; it doesn't take into account other funds they'll make and raise in the interim as they make the finished product.

It's only if they start hitting their flex goals that we'd see a finished product soon.

[T.G. Oskar]

Well, Paizo has a better track record with listening to its community than some, so I have mid to high hopes with the project so far.

I could swear I heard otherwise, particularly related to the beta.

However, I can't help but think Paizo is doing this to cash in on the current "tabletop to MMO" trend mostly started with DDO and then extending to Warhammer Online (and to an extent, Star Wars Galaxies and The Old Republic). Mostly, that they're trying to aim at the DDO crowd rather than the whole of the MMO player universe. I doubt they're going for WoW, partly because of common sense (stay close to the WoW formula, but offer something distinctive and something that sets a trend, such as microtransactions) and partly because their focus aims otherwise (as mentioned before, they're going for EVE Online levels of player worldbuilding)...something that WotC aims (or aimed; really haven't heard of it so long) with their Neverwinter MMO.

In any case, that was the first impression I got when I heard of PF Online. They'll have to do something unique so that they don't make a clone of DDO in attempts to hoard any of their fanbase who might also be attracted to tabletop gaming and that move towards DDO as it's the closest thing (and also, because Golarion aims toward high fantasy setting, one of the usual comments done against DDO and Eberron).

Though: one million and not revealing any partner on the venture seems like they'll take way too much time to develop the game. Seems like too little money to develop a game, particularly one that aims to encompass a proprietary setting to which they might seek a greater deal of control.

[ThiagoMartell]

I could swear I heard otherwise, particularly related to the beta.

Well, what I saw was a bunch of people going to the forums, calling designer names and saying "hey, you all, my game is going to be SO MUCH BETTER than yours"
then they were banned then they started saying Paizo sucks every opportunity they get, some of them even admitting to never having played Pathfinder but still swearing for their immortal souls that it sucks ass and you're wrong for liking it

[Hullabaloo]

They'll have to do something unique so that they don't make a clone of DDO in attempts to hoard any of their fanbase who might also be attracted to tabletop gaming and that move towards DDO as it's the closest thing (and also, because Golarion aims toward high fantasy setting, one of the usual comments done against DDO and Eberron).

The core DDO fan base is waiting for anything that is well done, yet based on D&D/pathfinder. Turbine has alienated alot of the tabletop fans by going far from the 3.5 base, and doing a hamfisted job of it at the same time

[Tanuki Tales]

The core DDO fan base is waiting for anything that is well done, yet based on D&D/pathfinder. Turbine has alienated alot of the tabletop fans by going far from the 3.5 base, and doing a hamfisted job of it at the same time

So I shouldn't look into it while this develops then?

@T.G.: What I heard/saw is similar to what Thiago saw. Basically, "you can't please everyone" came into effect and Paizo's staff may have botched playtesting for one or two things. But for the most part, they are much better at listening to their customers and players than WoTC ever was. As far as I've seen and am aware of course.

[Ancient Hippo]

12 days isn't a necro, is it?

This thread seemed quite light in the links department, so I'll take the liberty to add in a few.

The Goblinworks blog. (https://goblinworks.com/blog/) Goblinworks is the developer of the game, their blog contains a lot of stuff about it.

The forums. (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/licensees/pathfinderOnline) Forums are forums, so I suggest keeping a grain of salt handy. :smalltongue: However, the CEO of Goblinworks posts there somewhat often, and those post are quite informative.

The Kickstarter. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-a-fantasy-sandbox-mmo) Has a FAQ near the bottom of the page.

So... I hope these links are of some use to someone.

[AgentPaper]

What they're trying to do is impossible.

Perhaps they will pull out a miracle and do the impossible, but let's just say I'm not holding my breath.

More likely, they're going to find themselves backpedaling on many of their promises and "making do" a lot. Hopefully they realize this quickly, and come up with a more plausible foundation for their game.

[Psyren]

What rules will it follow? There's a sizeable gap, I'd say, for a NWN-style persistent world RPG that uses an updated engine, updated graphics and updated 3.P rules. NWN is still very popular and more importantly, very different from WoW.

Some ability by the players to make and DM their own submodules within the larger game world would carve out one hell of a niche.


12 days isn't a necro, is it?

No; necro = 6 weeks or more.

Thanks for the links!

[Acanous]

What they're trying to do is impossible.

Perhaps they will pull out a miracle and do the impossible, but let's just say I'm not holding my breath.

More likely, they're going to find themselves backpedaling on many of their promises and "making do" a lot. Hopefully they realize this quickly, and come up with a more plausible foundation for their game.

it's not impossible, SWG did it. With tech from 10 years ago.
Age of Conan tried to do something similar, although the cities all being effectively premade, you just get to pick the style turned me off there.

So yeah, they can do it. I hope this game is more Pathfinder and not like WoW at all. I'll be miffed if it's another WoW clone.

Why doesn't anyone understand? If we want WoW, we play WoW. Gamers don't want another WoW knockoff except to kill a couple months while waiting for the next WoW patch to drop.

If you give us a familiar, D20 based immersive world, where we can build our own cities? NOW you'll get some money out of us.

Heck, you'll probably be pulling from Minecraft's playerbase at that point, and they're much more willing to try new things :p

[AgentPaper]

it's not impossible, SWG did it. With tech from 10 years ago.
Age of Conan tried to do something similar, although the cities all being effectively premade, you just get to pick the style turned me off there.

So yeah, they can do it. I hope this game is more Pathfinder and not like WoW at all. I'll be miffed if it's another WoW clone.

Why doesn't anyone understand? If we want WoW, we play WoW. Gamers don't want another WoW knockoff except to kill a couple months while waiting for the next WoW patch to drop.

If you give us a familiar, D20 based immersive world, where we can build our own cities? NOW you'll get some money out of us.

Heck, you'll probably be pulling from Minecraft's playerbase at that point, and they're much more willing to try new things :p

But see, there's a common thread with those games: all of them failed. SWG survived for a bit just from players stubbornly hoping it would become what it was trying to be, but in the end it just didn't do it.

I'm not saying that the issue is unsolvable, but it's certain that nobody has solved it yet. And until the issue is solved, making such a game is impossible.

[KhaineGB]

SWG would've survived a lot longer if it wasn't for the NGE.

On topic, I told my other half about this game, sent her the page and her response was "OMG! It sounds like an up to date Ultima Online! I will so play this."

So the style of game seems to be popular. Let's hope they can pull it off.