Command Undead VS Dominate Person

[Karoht]

Most of my party just turned into Vampires via a ritual in a module.
The template gives them Dominate as an EX ability. Naturally, I'm concerned about them using it on myself.And I'm pretty sure that my chances of making the save are actually quite low.

So I plan on using Command Undead on them. I don't plan on issuing any commands other than:
-Never ever try to harm me
-Never ever try to control me
-Never ever take action against me
-Never ever ask/order anyone to take action against me

So, what happens if they try and use Dominate on me? Just the opposed Charisma check right?

Secondary question, because Dominate is an EX ability, it can be used in an Anti-Magic field right? If I have Command Undead on them, and they walk into an Anti-Magic field, would there no longer be a Charisma check should one of them try to Dominate me?

[Studoku]

Command Undead states that the target cannot attack you while under the effects of the spell. Attempting to dominate you almost certainly counts as an attack (among other things, it involves making an attack role for the gaze attack).

Unless I'm reading a different template from you, dominate is a (SU) ability which wouldn't be usable in an antimagic field.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm

[docnessuno]

Good luck managing to control your entire group before any of them lands a dominate on you.

Thar said, most of those action would not require an opposed charisma chech since Command undead states that the target "will not attack you while the spell lasts." Trying to dominate you would qualify as an attack.

An easyer solution might be trying to remain at all time under a protection from evil or similar effect, wich would suppress any form of mind controlling.

For your second question, Dominate is a SU ability, and thus not usable inside antimagic field and suppressed by it.

Edit: Swordsaged!

[Urpriest]

Command Undead states that the target cannot attack you while under the effects of the spell. Attempting to dominate you almost certainly counts as an attack (among other things, it involves making an attack role for the gaze attack).

Is attempting to dominate an attack? Yes, see Invisibility description.

Does it involve an attack roll? No.

[Karoht]

The plan is to get away for a little while (go off and sell some stuff) and come back with a Protection from Evil active. And then wait for the right time to hit them with Command Undead. Don't worry, I have a plan for that part.

Also, I checked my source again, I stand corrected, it is not an EX ability but is indeed an SU. Whew. That makes life easy.

[Studoku]

Is attempting to dominate an attack? Yes, see Invisibility description.

Does it involve an attack roll? No.
Apparently I've never bothered to read the rules for gaze attack. I must've inferred the attack roll from the phrase "gaze attack". :smallredface:


The plan is to get away for a little while (go off and sell some stuff) and come back with a Protection from Evil active. And then wait for the right time to hit them with Command Undead. Don't worry, I have a plan for that part.
Can I ask what the plan is?

[Karoht]

Apparently I've never bothered to read the rules for gaze attack. I must've inferred the attack roll from the phrase "gaze attack". :smallredface:


Can I ask what the plan is?I've kind of said too much already, as I'm hoping neither my DM or the Players read this. But, in for a penny, in for a pound.

I set up a Rope Trick for them to hang out in. I sleep in a separate one (established already in character). I wait a while until people are asleep. I cast Greater Invisibility and Silence on myself, and climb back into the Rope Trick they are in.
Once I'm in, I (silent spell) the following as needed.
-Assay Spell Resistance
-True Casting
-Extended Command Undead

Since they are sleeping they are considered 'willing' targets and forgo the will save. If it doesn't work for some reason, my risk of being discovered is greatly minimized.
It's a bit of a jerk move, but my only command on them is don't start stuff with me. The key part of the challenge here is to do it without their knowledge, even if it fails. Basically, I'm trying to head off an arguement between the non-undeads in the party (especially myself) and the undeads who can now attempt to Dominate them to influence them. I'd rather just 'shoot first' and then the proverbial gun can be taken off the table.

[Zanthy1]

I believe the vampire ability is a gaze attack, so I would just cast blindness on myself and BOOM! safe :)

[TuggyNE]

Since they are sleeping they are considered 'willing' targets and forgo the will save. If it doesn't work for some reason, my risk of being discovered is greatly minimized.

Assuming, of course, you believe that that applies to more than just (harmless)/willing-only spells, which is not necessarily the case. For example, in context:
Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you’re flat-footed or it isn’t your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.

This is not necessarily the same thing as willingly giving up a saving throw:
A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.

[Darth Stabber]

Become a necropolitan (or some other form of undead or construct). You are now immune to dominate effects and most of the rest of the school of enchantment. Necropolitan will cost you some xp, but it is usually worth it.

[LanSlyde]

Since they are sleeping they are considered 'willing' targets and forgo the will save.

Hate to burst your bubble, but sleeping targets are not considering 'willing'. If that was the case then spells like Nightmare would not give there targets saving throws. If you want me to find the relevant rules I will.

EDIT: Found it anyway: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm

The 'Aiming A Spell' section has the relevant information. Under 'Target or Targets'. I'll quote it anyway if people feel like being lazy.



Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you’re flat-footed or it isn’t your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.

Command Undead certainly does not specify a 'willing target only'. So even if they are asleep they still get their save. Now something like Death Pact on the other hand, could totally be used on a sleeping character.

If your still not convinced, look at the spell 'Nightmare' and tell me whats wrong with my logic.

http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/nightmare--2687/

[Ivellius]

I've kind of said too much already, as I'm hoping neither my DM or the Players read this. But, in for a penny, in for a pound.

I set up a Rope Trick for them to hang out in. I sleep in a separate one (established already in character). I wait a while until people are asleep. I cast Greater Invisibility and Silence on myself, and climb back into the Rope Trick they are in.
Once I'm in, I (silent spell) the following as needed.
-Assay Spell Resistance
-True Casting
-Extended Command Undead

Since they are sleeping they are considered 'willing' targets and forgo the will save. If it doesn't work for some reason, my risk of being discovered is greatly minimized.
It's a bit of a jerk move, but my only command on them is don't start stuff with me. The key part of the challenge here is to do it without their knowledge, even if it fails. Basically, I'm trying to head off an arguement between the non-undeads in the party (especially myself) and the undeads who can now attempt to Dominate them to influence them. I'd rather just 'shoot first' and then the proverbial gun can be taken off the table.

The biggest flaw I see in this plan is that undead don't sleep.

[LanSlyde]

The biggest flaw I see in this plan is that undead don't sleep.

Well, yeah, there's THAT. But I was addressing the much more important issue of trying to throw auto-win spells at sleeping targets and hoping to get away with it.

[Karoht]

Well, yeah, there's THAT. But I was addressing the much more important issue of trying to throw auto-win spells at sleeping targets and hoping to get away with it.
If it doesn't work that way (and it appears that even the DM is mistaken on this one) I'll still attempt it while they are unconscious/resting. Not likely I'll be caught as absolutely none of them have invested anything towards seeing through invisibility. Heck, they will probably think it is another scrying attempt that they haven't bothered to investigate or address in any way.

For that reason, it could actually precipitate an interesting event. I may have to follow it up with some illusionary attackers showing up shortly afterwards. Prank purposes only, of course.