LGBTAitp 29: the Rainbow Outreach Program

[KenderWizard]

Hello hello hello hello and welcome to the terrific twenty-ninth incarnation of the queerest, rainbow-coloured, extra-friendly corner of the Playground, the LGBTAitp thread!


This is a thread where we Playgrounders, and LGBTAitp in particular, gather to discuss, share our experiences, give general advice and support one another in such matters as arise relating to, well, the world beyond heteronormativity.

Please note that although the title of the thread names only the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Asexual communities, it is intended as an all inclusive environment.


Everyone is welcome. Let's try to keep from seeming otherwise.
Keep this topic free of politics and religion. (so, don't violate the board rules, plz)
It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss whether LGBT is "Right." (And really, most discussions probably should avoid moralizing too much anyway)
Please refrain from posting sexually explicit content. (Keep it friendly as well as board safe :smallsmile:)



Keep in mind that content which contain strong language may be filtered (Plus, y'know, the forum-filters), and content that violates the forum rules won't be posted at all.

Here are the links for the previous threads, where much of use or interest may be found:
LGBT people in the playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62225)

LGBT people in the playground - part II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86066)

LGBTitp - part III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5663140#post5663140)

LGBTitp 4: We are a family? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129235)

LGBTitp - Part Five (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143424)

LGBTitp - Part Six (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147832)

LGBTitp - Part Seven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157312)

LGBTitp - Part Eight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167395)

LGBTitp - Part Nine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172747)

LGBTAitp - Part Ten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177253)

LGBTAitp - Part Eleven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181683)

LGBTAitp - Part Twelve (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10335967#)

LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192714)

LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200329)

LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207987)

LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11820872#)

LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219966)

LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223792)

LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227182)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty - Critical Hit! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12613347)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty-One - BLACKJACK! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233833)

LGBTAitP Part 22: The Best There Is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236828)

LGBTAitP Part 23: Et tu, ~Bianca? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239610)

LGBTAitP: Alphabet Soup-with 24 different Vitamins! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13243754)

LGBTAitP part 25: Doing Away With Subtitles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249030)

LGBTAitP 26: No Time For Snappy Titles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253352)

LGBTAitP 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256951)

LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14110484#post14110484)


And, for reference, here is the Thousand&Wordster Dictionary of Commonly Used LGBTAitp Words and Phrases

Lagerbeta: A fine brewski to be drunk by queers and allies.
LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*
Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender
LGBTA: LGBT+Asexual/Allies
QUILTBAG: Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender, Transexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer
Allies: Straight people that support equality for sexuality and gender minorities.
MtF: Male-to-Female: A woman born with male nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans woman)
FtM: Female-to-Male: A man born with female nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans man)
GQ: Genderqueer.
CS: Cis-sexual: sex and gender match (a male with male nibblies, a female with female nibblies.
TS: Transsexual: Sex and gender disparity.
HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's take more progestrogens and oestrogens and FtM's take more testosterone (I think?)
SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa depending on direction. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.
FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Plastic surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. not very common.

Man: A cisman or transman. Male.
Woman: A ciswoman or transwoman. Female.
Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.
Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between male and female.
Agendered: Someone who feels neither male nor female.
Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa.
Masculine: Something generally associated with men.
Feminine: Something generally associated with women.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.
Gay: A man who is attracted to men.
Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their gender.
Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.
Bisexual: A person who is attracted to two genders (usually men and women, sometimes transgender instead of one of those).
Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender.
Asexual: A person who does not feel any/some sexual attraction.
Demisexual: A person who is sexually attracted to someone(s) they have formed an intense emotional relationship with.
Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.
Radosexual: A person who is only attracted to rad people.
Pomosexual: A person who avoids SO labels.

Sexual Orientation: How one identifies who they are attracted to. (SO)
Gender Identity: How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other". (GI)
Gender Expression: How one expresses their GI to society. (GE)
Significant Other(s): Person you are in a relationship with. (SO)


Edit: Took down the anon-mail, I put it in by mistake!

[Lix Lorn]

Buffy you can either take or leave as you wish.
And if you leave, I'll have your share. Buffy was an awesome show.


I find it sad that the idea of a Black Widow film being bad very very confusing, Widow is a very interesting character and I would personally love to know about the backstory and life of someone who does both espionage, secret government work, heroism and may be the only one who could learn what goes on behind SHIELD's closed doors. I am so curious! I know what everybody else on the team does and want to see that too, but Widow was my favourite Avenger! >_<
Well, the problem I'd see is that she'd just be a secret agent, so it'd be like a bourne film or something. It might be cool if the enemies were superpowered individuals... nevermind it could be awesome.

[noparlpf]

Once again, I am going to show my horrible ignorance to you lovely people, but endo?

~Matthew~

Endocrinologist. Basically, a doctor of the hormone system, person who prescribes hormone replacement and stuff like that.


http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5948921_460s.jpg

Heh, I saw that recently. I like it.
Edit: I'm going to spoiler it though because it's biggish.

[Irish Musician]

Official first Lixie pounce of the new thread :3

*looks at the Lixie with a mischevious look and POUNCES!!!*

@Frag - Oh, that makes sense, thanks! :smallredface:

Edit: Also, thank you nopar!

~Matthew~

[The Succubus]

Just a quick question, didn't Smee take down the anon-mail a while back due to problems?

[Worira]

Here's a thing (http://www.duelinganalogs.com/infographic/how-to-tell-if-a-toy-is-for-boys-or-girls/)

[KenderWizard]

Ugh, that article is awful, Kender. :/
And I really really dislike the whole "it's a joke / it's comedy / it's satire" excuse; that doesn't excuse the harmful effects it has. Especially when the joke is something that actually happens a ton to people. It's not like the whole turning women straight thing hasn't been used as an excuse for (sexual) violence towards queer women. Blandly repeating bigotry is not comedy. :smallannoyed:

Also that discussion didn't sound very pleasant. :c

Also I'm sorry about the Natalie link! I thought the article itself had a warning at the start but apparently I misremembered. :(

-----

Also intake at my endo and my bloodtests tomorrow! Slightly nervous!

Good luck!

On the link: That's okay, I am glad I read it, I was just kind of taken aback.

On satire being used as a Get Out Of Jail Free card: I completely agree, it drives me mad. Intent is important, but not the be-all-and-end-all of whether or not something is hurtful or triggering or offensive.




What I don't get is how people don't seem realise that most satire doesn't work because most satire is indistinguishable from the ridiculous opinions it's satirizing.
That and how people seem to think a cheap explanation makes anything okay. Let's give a simpler analogy for those people who apparently have no concept of empathy. Say I punch you. You say, ow, that hurt, what the hell man. I say, oops, that was only a satire of physical assault. Everything's okay now, right? Except not because somebody was still hurt, regardless of the intent.
Actually that seems like it might be an excellent lesson. I should become a masked vigilante, tracking down internet jerks and explaining that to them like that.


That ... would actually be great. I mean, I'm not usually pro punching people, but maybe we could open with just saying it.




@Black Widow I personally wouldn't watch the movie (Atleast not at first, if people promoted it enough I would. Mainly because I saw Catwomen and Elektra and my expectations for how Hollywood/Marvel could represent her is pitifully low. Not dissing Black Widow of course, she's not my favorite but I definetely enjoyed all her scenes in Avengers (Definetely more then Hawkeye, but not as much as the Captain America Fanboy Agent. Name keeps eluding me, I think it's Coleson).

Oh yeah, "Mansplaining"?:smallconfused:

Yeah, Coulson. I suppose you're on the same wavelength as Marvel. I think it's a shame. Writing off female-led-action-movies because of failures in the past is silly and unsustainable, I think. And this is a brilliant opportunity, much less of a gamble than an unestablished character.

Mansplaining is a type of attitude where someone assumes they know better than you because of their privilege. Like in this case, Red assumes he knows better than me about superhero movies because he's a man, and men are the ones who know about nerdy stuff, and I'm just a woman. "Mansplaining" refers to men doing it towards women, but you can also have similar situations with cis people explaining trans issues to trans people, or white people explaining, say, cricket to people who aren't white, and so on.


The problem with a Black Widow movie (Note I only know her from the Avengers movie) is that she is not really a very interesting character as she is just a russian femme fatale *Yawn*. I'd much rather see them make a good superhero movie with one of the more interesting and actually super female superheros.

But I also think that the avengers would have been better if it hadn't included her and Hawkeye and instead would have given the rest of the cast more screentime instead. I would have loved to see more of the Hulk/Iron Man Bromance and to see some bits of Captain America adjusting to modern life.

That's valid. I would frigging love a Wasp movie or something. Since they're making Ant-Man though, my money's on Wasp being a secondary character to Ant-Man in the Ant-Man film that's about Ant-Man.


http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5948921_460s.jpg

I WANT ONE OF THESE! No, I want LOTS, so I can stick them everywhere!

[Irish Musician]

I like your thing Worira.....here is another thing (http://omaketheater.com/comic/62/) :smallamused:

~Matthew~

[Absol197]

Yay! KenderThread!

AND I remembered to change the link in my sig, too! It's going to be a great day :smallsmile: .


~Phoenix~

[Mina Kobold]

Edit to add: I love you, Keveak! :smallsmile:

Thanks. :smallredface:


Ugh, that article is awful, Kender. :/
And I really really dislike the whole "it's a joke / it's comedy / it's satire" excuse; that doesn't excuse the harmful effects it has. Especially when the joke is something that actually happens a ton to people. It's not like the whole turning women straight thing hasn't been used as an excuse for (sexual) violence towards queer women. Blandly repeating bigotry is not comedy. :smallannoyed:

Never made sense to me either. That something is not the real deal does not stop television from including a disclaimer about the horrific images in a film, aimed at both children and adults alike, nor does being a joke stop bullying from driving people to self-abuse or suicide. The argument relies entirely on everybody being comfortable with the same content as the speaker and willing to listen to it in public without warning. Particularly annoying is that the excuse works retroactively, requiring no burden of evidence on the joker to show that they obviously meant it as satire of someone else (like, say, making a disclaimer or in any way differing from the satired). :smallfrown:

Hurtful things harm, even if it was an accident. Don't excuse yourself, apologise for it. If you are mature enough to be sorry about bumping into someone physically, you are mature enough to be sorry about the same thing emotionally. ^_^


Also intake at my endo and my bloodtests tomorrow! Slightly nervous!

Congratulations! Hope it goes well! :smallsmile:


@Black Widow I personally wouldn't watch the movie (Atleast not at first, if people promoted it enough I would. Mainly because I saw Catwomen and Elektra and my expectations for how Hollywood/Marvel could represent her is pitifully low. Not dissing Black Widow of course, she's not my favorite but I definetely enjoyed all her scenes in Avengers (Definetely more then Hawkeye, but not as much as the Captain America Fanboy Agent. Name keeps eluding me, I think it's Coleson).

I personally did not like the old Spiderman, Fantastic Four, Hulk or X-men films particularly, but I tremendously enjoyed the Amazing Spiderman, Thor, Captain America: The First Avenger, Iron Man and the Avengers films. I understand perfectly well that you may be entirely in the right, but I just wanted to point out that some of us were pleasantly surprised by Marvel alreasdy. Perhaps they can do it again? Some day, a non-male superhero will be successful in theatre, so why not have Black Widow be the first? :smallsmile:

Also, those films were made in cooperation with separate companies, necessitating a large amount of negotiation. Marvel is owned by Disney now, and as such is entirely in charge of their cinematic endeavours themselves now. May not ensure a good film, but I would say it seems to have a correlation so far. ^_^



Oh yeah, "Mansplaining"?:smallconfused:

A neologism coined to describe the pattern of some men (or other privileged groups, but it was coined specifically with the gender imbalance in mind) explaining things in a patronising (also a male-specific word, is every word about communication based on gender? Is it a dictionary conspiracy? O_O) manner. Usually used when someone is trying to explain why they are justified in making statements of fact on a topic the listener knows much more about while treating them as ignorant and dismissing their opinion (e.g. a construction worker telling how to properly inject medicine). :smallsmile:


The problem with a Black Widow movie (Note I only know her from the Avengers movie) is that she is not really a very interesting character as she is just a russian femme fatale *Yawn*. I'd much rather see them make a good superhero movie with one of the more interesting and actually super female superheros.

But I also think that the avengers would have been better if it hadn't included her and Hawkeye and instead would have given the rest of the cast more screentime instead. I would have loved to see more of the Hulk/Iron Man Bromance and to see some bits of Captain America adjusting to modern life.

Black Widow was originally a Soviet spy who switched sides a few times and ended up as one of SHIELD's top agents lately, as far as I know. Has been known to find a way to get into any place without detection and gather information in a creepily effective way. Seems a pretty fun character, but admittedly a bit bland on the surface. ^_^'

I personally would love to see a She-Hulk, Spider-woman or the Wasp film, but I think it would actually be the best to explore the characters already presented to the public first. Marvel seem to be planning to make their films fun for both fans and newcomers, so making sure everybody is caught up with everything seems a good idea. :smallsmile:

They are making an animated film with Iron Man and Hulk teaming up, which I believe is canon, as well as continuing both Cap and Tony's own trilogies, so you can look forward to all of those things still! ^_^


And if you leave, I'll have your share. Buffy was an awesome show.


Well, the problem I'd see is that she'd just be a secret agent, so it'd be like a bourne film or something. It might be cool if the enemies were superpowered individuals... nevermind it could be awesome.

I am still on season four, but I agree. Hear that the comics are really picking up too. :smallsmile:

A former soviet spy working for SHIELD, of course there will be superpowered foes. SHIELD is basically the USA's government's response to super-people's existence in the Marvel universe, they barely do anything but keep an eye on their affairs, from Hover-bases! ^_^

And the Marvel universe Soviet Union apparently made a gazillion projects that always create or awaken some being to go after Wolverine, Colossus or Black Widow, so we might have a zombie Lenin riding the Kraken too! :3

[noparlpf]

Here's a thing (http://www.duelinganalogs.com/infographic/how-to-tell-if-a-toy-is-for-boys-or-girls/)

Heh that's a wonderful thing.


That ... would actually be great. I mean, I'm not usually pro punching people, but maybe we could open with just saying it.

Yeah, actually punching those people might undermine my point by leaving them with a bad first impression of me and stuff like that. Also might hurt my hand after a while.
Maybe somebody else can post it as a response to some of these bigot-splainers because if I go near the internet outside of here I usually give up in disgust and start designing my masked vigilante costume.


Yeah, Coulson. I suppose you're on the same wavelength as Marvel. I think it's a shame. Writing off female-led-action-movies because of failures in the past is silly and unsustainable, I think. And this is a brilliant opportunity, much less of a gamble than an unestablished character.

Silly, definitely silly.
Alien is an excellent example of a female lead who wasn't just there to be sexy. Now just do something like that and don't forget what you're doing and accidentally just make the female lead into eye candy for the straight male audience.

[Lix Lorn]

Official first Lixie pounce of the new thread :3

*looks at the Lixie with a mischevious look and POUNCES!!!*
but
WHY
DXDD


Yeah, Coulson.
COULSOOOOON
You have no idea how much tumblr loves him.
no idea


I WANT ONE OF THESE! No, I want LOTS, so I can stick them everywhere!
I saved it in my 'Awesome Pics' folder.


I am still on season four, but I agree. Hear that the comics are really picking up too. :smallsmile:
I have two comic collections sitting ehre to be read... DXD


A former soviet spy working for SHIELD, of course there will be superpowered foes. SHIELD is basically the USA's government's response to super-people's existence in the Marvel universe, they barely do anything but keep an eye on their affairs, from Hover-bases! ^_^

And the Marvel universe Soviet Union apparently made a gazillion projects that always create or awaken some being to go after Wolverine, Colossus or Black Widow, so we might have a zombie Lenin riding the Kraken too! :3
...man I hope so.

[noparlpf]

COULSOOOOON
You have no idea how much tumblr loves him.
no idea

I wouldn't be surprised if she does...

[KenderWizard]

NOOOOO! COULSOOOON! YOU WILL BE AVENGED! I WILL CALL THE AVENGERS AND YOU WILL BE AVENGED!

@Worira: I literally laughed out loud, quite loudly, at that. It is AWESOME!

All of my other points have been expanded on very competently by Keveak and Nope. Kenderhive wins again! :smallsmile:

[Irish Musician]

NOOOOO! COULSOOOON! YOU WILL BE AVENGED! I WILL CALL THE AVENGERS AND YOU WILL BE AVENGED!
After I get off of work today I am going to go watch that movie....just so I can watch this outtake at the end. Cracked me up!!

Also, X-men First Class made me hopefully for the X-men Franchise again, having been a HUGE X-men fan, and still am somewhat, in my younger days.

~Matthew~

[noparlpf]

What the heck, I think that might be this computer's first ever blue screen and it was caused by an online video clip of the Avengers bloopers?

[Selpharia]

Well, hello there, new thread. Arfen't you looking just darling today?


Here's a thing (http://www.duelinganalogs.com/infographic/how-to-tell-if-a-toy-is-for-boys-or-girls/)

That's awesome

Question, If the Avengers commit an offense against someone, who do they call to get it avenged? This sounds like it might have the makings of a neat little racket.

~Laura

[PairO'Dice Lost]

And here is yet another thing (http://imgur.com/ASt3x), dedicated to our friendly neighborhood Phoenix.

[KenderWizard]

After I get off of work today I am going to go watch that movie....just so I can watch this outtake at the end. Cracked me up!!

Also, X-men First Class made me hopefully for the X-men Franchise again, having been a HUGE X-men fan, and still am somewhat, in my younger days.

~Matthew~

Yeah, X-Men First Class, while far from perfect, was such a ray of light after the darkness of X3 and XOW. I love this list (http://www.themarysue.com/7-ways-to-save-the-x-men-franchise-from-itself-or-at-least-give-it-a-kick-in-the-pants/) of ways to save the X-Men franchise from itself.



Question, If the Avengers commit an offense against someone, who do they call to get it avenged? This sounds like it might have the makings of a neat little racket.


Batman? :smalltongue: Depends on the offense, I suppose!

[Mina Kobold]

All of my other points have been expanded on very competently by Keveak and Nope. Kenderhive wins again! :smallsmile:

Yay for the Kenderhive! ^_^



Also, X-men First Class made me hopefully for the X-men Franchise again, having been a HUGE X-men fan, and still am somewhat, in my younger days.

~Matthew~

I really need to watch X-men: First Class at some point. ^_^'

I also need to read more of the comics, what little I have read has been very fun indeed. Goofy and obviously from the seventies, but great! :smallsmile:


Question, If the Avengers commit an offense against someone, who do they call to get it avenged? This sounds like it might have the makings of a neat little racket.

~Laura

The Great Lake Avengers, perhaps?

Honestly, as far as I can tell from Avengers' Assemble, people just kind of badmouth them in the news and protest at their door. More of a PR problem there, though.


And here is yet another thing (http://imgur.com/ASt3x), dedicated to our friendly neighborhood Phoenix.

I wish I could do that. u_u


Yeah, X-Men First Class, while far from perfect, was such a ray of light after the darkness of X3 and XOW. I love this list (http://www.themarysue.com/7-ways-to-save-the-x-men-franchise-from-itself-or-at-least-give-it-a-kick-in-the-pants/) of ways to save the X-Men franchise from itself.

That is a very nice list, thank you for informing this part of the Kender-hive. ^_^

Ah, X-men: Evolution. Fun show, was my introduction to the franchise, I believe. I loved Nightcrawler and Shadowcat, they were adorable. And Rogue was so hug-able! :smallsmile:


Batman? :smalltongue: Depends on the offense, I suppose!

"I am vengeance, I am the night, I am Batman. And I can cross through interdimensional space!"? :3

I also need to rewatch that show, my geekiness is really slacking these days. D:

[noparlpf]

And here is yet another thing (http://imgur.com/ASt3x), dedicated to our friendly neighborhood Phoenix.

Excellent. If that were a superpower...


Yeah, X-Men First Class, while far from perfect, was such a ray of light after the darkness of X3 and XOW. I love this list (http://www.themarysue.com/7-ways-to-save-the-x-men-franchise-from-itself-or-at-least-give-it-a-kick-in-the-pants/) of ways to save the X-Men franchise from itself.

I actually liked Origins: Wolverine, even though it's objectively pretty bad. The trilogy was really awful.

[Thajocoth]

Yeah, X-Men First Class, while far from perfect, was such a ray of light after the darkness of X3 and XOW. I love this list (http://www.themarysue.com/7-ways-to-save-the-x-men-franchise-from-itself-or-at-least-give-it-a-kick-in-the-pants/) of ways to save the X-Men franchise from itself.

I happened to particularly like X-Men 3.

Super powers are being demonized as a disease, and they come out with a "cure". There's social pressure to take that cure, even though there's nothing wrong with being a mutant.

I have Asperger's Syndrome. With it, I have Sensory Processing Disorder (common to have with Asperger's). All my senses are stronger than the average. 10/20 vision... 35/-5 hearing... Etc... The Asperger's also makes me better at what I do. It gives me the more logical mind and greater focus needed for writing code. It's not without it's kryptonite: Often, food smells will trigger my body's natural "that's putrid" response, resulting in choking or nausea or whatever, and I require extra work to learn social things, but I've done quite well with that & have been working on increasing my body's tolerance to smells now that I know it's possible to do so.

What I have is useful & not a disease in the slightest, but bias is fairly mainstream. Things have been suggested to me to try to "cure" me before, like clay baths & the like. When Zicam was recalled for damaging people's sense of smell, and I saw the spray still on the shelf at my local Duane Reade, I stood there holding the bottle for at least 5-10 minutes considering it.

The movie resonated quite well with me for this. (And now I'm crying at work. I'm glad I can hide my face behind my monitors for a while, though I'm certain my coworker can hear my sniffling. Maybe it's a good time to take my lunch break.)

EDIT: You know, I just split off the Hannibal discussion into it's own thread in Media, and now we're once again talking about a movie series in the LGBTA thread. I find that a little funny.

[golentan]

On the "Satire as defense of a statement" thing, I think satire can be used to justify almost anything, with caveats. 1: It has to be recognizable to the majority of readers/viewers as satire, and 2: It has to be funny, or otherwise drive home the problems of the target unambiguously. The example in Kender's link failed both tests.

[KenderWizard]

That is a very nice list, thank you for informing this part of the Kender-hive. ^_^

Ah, X-men: Evolution. Fun show, was my introduction to the franchise, I believe. I loved Nightcrawler and Shadowcat, they were adorable. And Rogue was so hug-able! :smallsmile:


Also my introduction! I really want to watch it again, I'm so curious to see if it's as funny as I remember. Especially Nightcrawler who was AMAZING!


And here is yet another thing (http://imgur.com/ASt3x), dedicated to our friendly neighborhood Phoenix.

Oh my word, that is so incredible and I want to be able to do that!


I happened to particularly like X-Men 3.

Super powers are being demonized as a disease, and they come out with a "cure". There's social pressure to take that cure, even though there's nothing wrong with being a mutant.


You make a lot of good points, and I feel sad that you cried at work. I hate crying at work, I hope you had a good lunchbreak and feel better! My problem with X3 was certainly not the theme, but the execution. You're totally right, it's a really interesting idea that resonates with anyone who has a part of themselves that's looked on as a defect but is an important part of their identity, especially stuff like Aspergers. My problem was not that idea, it was that the movie was sloppy and confusing and made weird decisions. I think those characters and that idea deserved a better movie to exist in, but I totally respect that you got a lot out of it, and that's fine too. We all have movies that are special to us for whatever reason, even if they're not critically acclaimed.


On the "Satire as defense of a statement" thing, I think satire can be used to justify almost anything, with caveats. 1: It has to be recognizable to the majority of readers/viewers as satire, and 2: It has to be funny, or otherwise drive home the problems of the target unambiguously. The example in Kender's link failed both tests.

Absolutely. It would be possible to satirise the imagined response of a misogynistic bigot to a list like that. That is not what happened. What happened was much more like a straight example of what that bigot might be thinking.

[Lentrax]

On the "Satire as defense of a statement" thing, I think satire can be used to justify almost anything, with caveats. 1: It has to be recognizable to the majority of readers/viewers as satire, and 2: It has to be funny, or otherwise drive home the problems of the target unambiguously. The example in Kender's link failed both tests.

I once wrote a paper on the diplomatic relationships of Star Trek. But it was camouflage for how ridiculous having to prove my writing skills are.

What do you make of that? *raises eyebrow*

[golentan]

I once wrote a paper on the diplomatic relationships of Star Trek. But it was camouflage for how ridiculous having to prove my writing skills are.

What do you make of that? *raises eyebrow*

I don't know, I haven't read that paper, funnily enough.

[turkishproverb]

I happened to particularly like X-Men 3.

Super powers are being demonized as a disease, and they come out with a "cure". There's social pressure to take that cure, even though there's nothing wrong with being a mutant.

I have Asperger's Syndrome. With it, I have Sensory Processing Disorder (common to have with Asperger's). All my senses are stronger than the average. 10/20 vision... 35/-5 hearing... Etc... The Asperger's also makes me better at what I do. It gives me the more logical mind and greater focus needed for writing code. It's not without it's kryptonite: Often, food smells will trigger my body's natural "that's putrid" response, resulting in choking or nausea or whatever, and I require extra work to learn social things, but I've done quite well with that & have been working on increasing my body's tolerance to smells now that I know it's possible to do so.

What I have is useful & not a disease in the slightest, but bias is fairly mainstream. Things have been suggested to me to try to "cure" me before, like clay baths & the like. When Zicam was recalled for damaging people's sense of smell, and I saw the spray still on the shelf at my local Duane Reade, I stood there holding the bottle for at least 5-10 minutes considering it.

The movie resonated quite well with me for this. (And now I'm crying at work. I'm glad I can hide my face behind my monitors for a while, though I'm certain my coworker can hear my sniffling. Maybe it's a good time to take my lunch break.)

EDIT: You know, I just split off the Hannibal discussion into it's own thread in Media, and now we're once again talking about a movie series in the LGBTA thread. I find that a little funny.
....


*HUGS* I feel for you.


Now, to get to christening this thread.


*Pulls out bottle of Château-de-Picard.*

[KenderWizard]

So I just filled out a feedback form and it was weird, being about (a) my demographic (age, gender, etc), (b) board games and (c) car insurance. I thought it would be about the website that asked me to fill it in, which, as far as I can tell, is a movie reviews and news website and has nothing to do with board games or car insurance.

Anyway, it asked me the usual gender question, with three options; male, female or prefer not to answer. Then, later, it asked me this:


13. We are also interested in ensuring that we adequately represent people of all genders and sexualities. Please click on the option below that you feel best describes you.

Heterosexual (Straight)
Gay / Lesbian
Bisexual
Transgender
Undecided
Other (please specify)
Prefer not to answer

The weird thing about this question is that you can only answer one.

[noparlpf]

So I just filled out a feedback form and it was weird, being about (a) my demographic (age, gender, etc), (b) board games and (c) car insurance. I thought it would be about the website that asked me to fill it in, which, as far as I can tell, is a movie reviews and news website and has nothing to do with board games or car insurance.

Anyway, it asked me the usual gender question, with three options; male, female or prefer not to answer. Then, later, it asked me this:

The weird thing about this question is that you can only answer one.

That's pretty common for when they mess up inclusivity. At least it didn't have "Hispanic" under sexuality like one I saw.

[golentan]

That's pretty common for when they mess up inclusivity. At least it didn't have "Hispanic" under sexuality like one I saw.

Wait, what? I've certainly seen people with "hispanic" as a sexual preference, but as an orientation? That is amazing. I quite literally burst out laughing when I read this.

[noparlpf]

Wait, what? I've certainly seen people with "hispanic" as a sexual preference, but as an orientation? That is amazing. I quite literally burst out laughing when I read this.

I only wish I had seen this in person. Think I saw another one with "Chinese", too.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltt2mcMDnD1qjw853o1_500.jpg

[KerfuffleMach2]

I actually liked Origins: Wolverine, even though it's objectively pretty bad. The trilogy was really awful.

Though, you have to admit, Ian McKellan and Patrick Stewart were wonderful choices.

In fact, I blame the writing more than the actors. And the fact that they were still just at the beginning of this recent superhero movie wave.

[noparlpf]

Though, you have to admit, Ian McKellan and Patrick Stewart were wonderful choices.

In fact, I blame the writing more than the actors. And the fact that they were still just at the beginning of this recent superhero movie wave.

Yeah, they started before the effects got really good, which is a pity.
And it's mostly the writing. The got several excellent actors (hey, even I know their names, must mean something about them), and that's all that held the movies together at all, in my opinion.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Yeah, they started before the effects got really good, which is a pity.
And it's mostly the writing. The got several excellent actors (hey, even I know their names, must mean something about them), and that's all that held the movies together at all, in my opinion.

I concur.

And I am excited that they are continuing from First Class. Next one is Days of Future Past.

[noparlpf]

I concur.

And I am excited that they are continuing from First Class. Next one is Days of Future Past.

When's that coming out?
(I'm hoping they retcon the trilogy out of canon because there are at least a few contradictions between the trilogy, First Class, and Origins: Wolverine, if memory serves, and First Class is the better one, so it should be most canon for the film series.)

[turkishproverb]

Wait, what? I've certainly seen people with "hispanic" as a sexual preference, but as an orientation? That is amazing. I quite literally burst out laughing when I read this.

You aren't the only one.

[KerfuffleMach2]

When's that coming out?
(I'm hoping they retcon the trilogy out of canon because there are at least a few contradictions between the trilogy, First Class, and Origins: Wolverine, if memory serves, and First Class is the better one, so it should be most canon for the film series.)

Current release date is July 18th, 2014.

And currently, Ian McKellan and Patrick Stewart are listed as being in it as older Magneto and Xavier.

I think they will ignore the previous trilogy as far as story goes. But, seeing as the title suggests time shenanigans of some kind, they just can't change who plays older Magneto and Xavier. Because, in all reality, would you have anybody else play the older versions of those two?

[noparlpf]

Current release date is July 18th, 2014.

And currently, Ian McKellan and Patrick Stewart are listed as being in it as older Magneto and Xavier.

I think they will ignore the previous trilogy as far as story goes. But, seeing as the title suggests time shenanigans of some kind, they just can't change who plays older Magneto and Xavier. Because, in all reality, would you have anybody else play the older versions of those two?

Oh, so it's ages off and I may have died by then anyway due to apocalypses or (more realistically) senior year.
Of course it's going to be those two, who else?

[Lix Lorn]

Yeah, they started before the effects got really good, which is a pity.
And it's mostly the writing. The got several excellent actors (hey, even I know their names, must mean something about them), and that's all that held the movies together at all, in my opinion.
I think you're being fussy. X-Men was alright and the Last Stand was kinda terrible, but X-2 was pretty awesome...

[noparlpf]

I think you're being fussy. X-Men was alright and the Last Stand was kinda terrible, but X-2 was pretty awesome...

I'm trying to remember the individual movies right now and I think of the three that one was actually fairly good. But the trilogy as a whole wasn't great.

[Astrella]

I happened to particularly like X-Men 3.

Super powers are being demonized as a disease, and they come out with a "cure". There's social pressure to take that cure, even though there's nothing wrong with being a mutant.

I have Asperger's Syndrome. With it, I have Sensory Processing Disorder (common to have with Asperger's). All my senses are stronger than the average. 10/20 vision... 35/-5 hearing... Etc... The Asperger's also makes me better at what I do. It gives me the more logical mind and greater focus needed for writing code. It's not without it's kryptonite: Often, food smells will trigger my body's natural "that's putrid" response, resulting in choking or nausea or whatever, and I require extra work to learn social things, but I've done quite well with that & have been working on increasing my body's tolerance to smells now that I know it's possible to do so.

What I have is useful & not a disease in the slightest, but bias is fairly mainstream. Things have been suggested to me to try to "cure" me before, like clay baths & the like. When Zicam was recalled for damaging people's sense of smell, and I saw the spray still on the shelf at my local Duane Reade, I stood there holding the bottle for at least 5-10 minutes considering it.

The movie resonated quite well with me for this. (And now I'm crying at work. I'm glad I can hide my face behind my monitors for a while, though I'm certain my coworker can hear my sniffling. Maybe it's a good time to take my lunch break.)

EDIT: You know, I just split off the Hannibal discussion into it's own thread in Media, and now we're once again talking about a movie series in the LGBTA thread. I find that a little funny.

:smallfrown: *piles of hugs and sympathies*

-----

Thanks for all the good luck wishes peeps.

[Arachu]

On Hannibal:
I agree with Astrella. His dialogue was pretty awesome, and I can't really fault a guy for getting angry when all he asked for was a window, but between Hannibal's claim that Bill wasn't transsexual and the crossdressing scene (in which they seemingly went out of their way just to show how weird this person was) it was pretty iffy. That said, I can't really blame the movie for peoples' misconceptions of it either...

As for him being a hero, I can't say I agree or disagree there. He certainly seems to see himself in a heroic light, considering how he goes about things.

On cannibalism:
I don't think it's evil, but then I only use the term to describe which archetype characters in a given work of fiction fit so I wouldn't. :smalltongue:

I probably would if I were hungry enough, but I'd feel a little guilty even if I understood the person not to have had a problem with it. Then again, I feel a little guilty about eating non-human animals that were raised in captivity just to be slaughtered and processed into meat. So, that first scenario would actually be preferable. >.>


I need a bigger notebook. >:3

*Considers maybe being less secretive* :smalltongue: :smallredface:

Also, *second Lixiepounce~* X3


I actually never thought of that. The Let's Player I am watching pretty much just keeps shooting until the neccies lose their legs, regardless of how many shots it takes. I myself would probably be too busy apologising for shooting at it, though. ^_^'

They're marginally less dangerous with a leg off. Considering how slowly they crawl vs. how angry they get if you just take off their heads, always aiming low isn't a horrible idea (provided you have ammo; melee is really really hard in that game :smalltongue:).


And I really really dislike the whole "it's a joke / it's comedy / it's satire" excuse; that doesn't excuse the harmful effects it has. Especially when the joke is something that actually happens a ton to people. It's not like the whole turning women straight thing hasn't been used as an excuse for (sexual) violence towards queer women. Blandly repeating bigotry is not comedy. :smallannoyed:

I agree wholeheartedly. Being "funny" doesn't give you a free pass to dehumanize people. x.@


Also intake at my endo and my bloodtests tomorrow! Slightly nervous!

*Hugs you and crosses her fingers~* :smallbiggrin:


Just ignore the jealousy waves that are emenating in your direction... >_> <_< ...Those aren't mine...

~Phoenix~

*Hugs*


I happened to particularly like X-Men 3.

Super powers are being demonized as a disease, and they come out with a "cure". There's social pressure to take that cure, even though there's nothing wrong with being a mutant.

I have Asperger's Syndrome. With it, I have Sensory Processing Disorder (common to have with Asperger's). All my senses are stronger than the average. 10/20 vision... 35/-5 hearing... Etc... The Asperger's also makes me better at what I do. It gives me the more logical mind and greater focus needed for writing code. It's not without it's kryptonite: Often, food smells will trigger my body's natural "that's putrid" response, resulting in choking or nausea or whatever, and I require extra work to learn social things, but I've done quite well with that & have been working on increasing my body's tolerance to smells now that I know it's possible to do so.

What I have is useful & not a disease in the slightest, but bias is fairly mainstream. Things have been suggested to me to try to "cure" me before, like clay baths & the like. When Zicam was recalled for damaging people's sense of smell, and I saw the spray still on the shelf at my local Duane Reade, I stood there holding the bottle for at least 5-10 minutes considering it.

The movie resonated quite well with me for this. (And now I'm crying at work. I'm glad I can hide my face behind my monitors for a while, though I'm certain my coworker can hear my sniffling. Maybe it's a good time to take my lunch break.)

*Hugs!*

I can't stomach most vegetables. I have no idea why. Last time I forced myself to eat lettuce by sneaking it in a sub sandwich, I felt... Really bad after. Like, giggly but in a bad way. Also nauseous. If I complain about that sort of thing people tell me I'm just being picky (and then give me weird looks when I reach that last part). :s

It... Doesn't play well with my guilt about eating farm animals. I really wish I could at least stand to smell/look at the stuff. >.>


~Bianca

[Thajocoth]

*hugs* & other nice things

Thanks! :smallsmile:


On Hannibal:
I agree with Astrella. His dialogue was pretty awesome, and I can't really fault a guy for getting angry when all he asked for was a window, but between Hannibal's claim that Bill wasn't transsexual and the crossdressing scene (in which they seemingly went out of their way just to show how weird this person was) it was pretty iffy. That said, I can't really blame the movie for peoples' misconceptions of it either...

As for him being a hero, I can't say I agree or disagree there. He certainly seems to see himself in a heroic light, considering how he goes about things.

On cannibalism:
I don't think it's evil, but then I only use the term to describe which archetype characters in a given work of fiction fit so I wouldn't. :smalltongue:

I probably would if I were hungry enough, but I'd feel a little guilty even if I understood the person not to have had a problem with it. Then again, I feel a little guilty about eating non-human animals that were raised in captivity just to be slaughtered and processed into meat. So, that first scenario would actually be preferable. >.>

...

~Bianca

I've detailed my thoughts on the hero thing at the end of my post here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262942

I copied the posts over because the topic was kinda taking over the thread & some people found it squicky for some odd reason. I quoted the posts I noticed on the topic, hoping I didn't miss any.

[Kindablue]

I saw this like yesterdoodle and thought I'd post it here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDk888uvtmE)

[noparlpf]

I saw this like yesterdoodle and thought I'd post it here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDk888uvtmE)

We can get a set!

[The Succubus]

That's cool but you'd have to get a Ra and an Anubis as well. :smallbiggrin:

[Lentrax]

We have a wonderful pair of brothers you can adopt today. Their names are Thor and Loki...

[SiuiS]

Congratulations and jealousy to Lena!

Keveak: you're exactly right. My issue is people telling me my wishes stop mattering when I'm inert matter, an gettin indignant I would heap prize them by throwing myself somewhere hungry stranded couldn't reach.


I once wrote a paper on the diplomatic relationships of Star Trek. But it was camouflage for how ridiculous having to prove my writing skills are.

What do you make of that? *raises eyebrow*

My two favorite school papers were "why AOL sucks" and, when asked to relate my English class to a metaphor as an essay, how 11th grade English Is An I Can't Believe It's Not Butter Commercial.

School wasn't exactly challenging. Probably should have fixed that...


So I just filled out a feedback form and it was weird, being about (a) my demographic (age, gender, etc), (b) board games and (c) car insurance. I thought it would be about the website that asked me to fill it in, which, as far as I can tell, is a movie reviews and news website and has nothing to do with board games or car insurance.

Anyway, it asked me the usual gender question, with three options; male, female or prefer not to answer. Then, later, it asked me this:



The weird thing about this question is that you can only answer one.

Not so weird. It's "which is most important. I would identify as a lesbian more than transgender.

Which might raise some eyebrows until someone figures out that I picked the most appropriate label. Hmm. I see your point.


Wait, what? I've certainly seen people with "hispanic" as a sexual preference, but as an orientation? That is amazing. I quite literally burst out laughing when I read this.

ah, those sultry Spanish summers.

Best Twilight/Braeburn fic I've never written.

[Socratov]

Congratulations and jealousy to Lena!

Keveak: you're exactly right. My issue is people telling me my wishes stop mattering when I'm inert matter, an gettin indignant I would heap prize them by throwing myself somewhere hungry stranded couldn't reach.



My two favorite school papers were "why AOL sucks" and, when asked to relate my English class to a metaphor as an essay, how 11th grade English Is An I Can't Believe It's Not Butter Commercial.

School wasn't exactly challenging. Probably should have fixed that...



I once wrote in an hour an english essay (not my native language) discussing and combining classic religion, modern religion, the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and The Foundation Trilogy considering the end of the world. then I needed to bore myself for another hour.

[Lentrax]

Ahh, English class.

If only there were some way to prove to our teachers we didn't need it after 12 years of school....

That sounds like one of the froodiest papers I've ever heard of, Socratov.

[Mono Vertigo]

This weekend is the 60th anniversary of a pioneering sex reassignment therapy. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20544095)
It's positive, and, most importantly, the right pronouns are used in this article.

[Castaras]

This weekend is the 60th anniversary of a pioneering sex reassignment therapy. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20544095)
It's positive, and, most importantly, the right pronouns are used in this article.

That article is awesome. :smallsmile:

[Socratov]

Ahh, English class.

If only there were some way to prove to our teachers we didn't need it after 12 years of school....

That sounds like one of the froodiest papers I've ever heard of, Socratov.

The best thing is, it made some zarking sense too... I guess we just weren't ready to have the answer to life, the universe and everything...

[noparlpf]

Ahh, English class.

If only there were some way to prove to our teachers we didn't need it after 12 years of school....

Step one: Don't live with one. My mum's an English teacher and I had her as a teacher for three and a half years through middle school into ninth grade.
I do think we need some basic English (or whatever native language, obviously) education. People need to be able to communicate effectively and to organise arguments and whatever else English classes teach. But really, most of what I've learned in writing classes since finishing high school is how to write convincing nonsense, meanwhile wasting time on something unrelated to my future.


This weekend is the 60th anniversary of a pioneering sex reassignment therapy. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20544095)
It's positive, and, most importantly, the right pronouns are used in this article.

That's actually pretty good.

[SiuiS]

Ahh, English class.

If only there were some way to prove to our teachers we didn't need it after 12 years of school....

That sounds like one of the froodiest papers I've ever heard of, Socratov.

I dunno. Th number of people who cannot write in English is astounding – and I'm only talking about those you could reasonably expect to do so. The number o Americans who can't really speak English is likewise high, to the point that people become uncomfortable and lash out at those who use polysyllabic words. It's a sad world where you get dropped from a gaming group or repeated use of 'ressurection' instead of 'rez', y'know?

I suppose they need to boost the coherency. From around grade 6 to 12, I didn't actually learn anything. I figured out grammar from a combination of A) natural curiosity, B) college kids making fun of me and C) schoolhouse rock.


This weekend is the 60th anniversary of a pioneering sex reassignment therapy. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20544095)
It's positive, and, most importantly, the right pronouns are used in this article.

huh. Thought provoking. Although it prompts a point of view that I am uncomfortable really turning on myself. I don't think I could much handle a mindset that didn't have whimsy.

Still, such as this is life changing, yes? As much fun as the end product will be, one should focus on the transistors period. That's what one will have to overcome, and that is what is important.

[Irish Musician]

Step one: Don't live with one. My mum's an English teacher and I had her as a teacher for three and a half years through middle school into ninth grade.
You poor, poor student. I had some friend who had their mothers as teachers, and they HATED it the entire time. My sympathies.

[KerfuffleMach2]

This weekend is the 60th anniversary of a pioneering sex reassignment therapy. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20544095)
It's positive, and, most importantly, the right pronouns are used in this article.

Huh. Didn't know that was done that far back in time.

Well, good for her then. And good job to the writers.

[Mono Vertigo]

You poor, poor student. I had some friend who had their mothers as teachers, and they HATED it the entire time. My sympathies.
Both of my boyfriend's parents are teachers. And they've reached that critical point where they're really, really tired of they put up with in class.
Hah!
(And what do you know, one of their sons is even more pedant than they are, and the other is one of his native [or any, really] language's archnemesis. Pop quiz: which one is my partner?)

[noparlpf]

Both of my boyfriend's parents are teachers. And they've reached that critical point where they're really, really tired of they put up with in class.
Hah!
(And what do you know, one of their sons is even more pedant than they are, and the other is one of his native [or any, really] language's archnemesis. Pop quiz: which one is my partner?)

Oh yeah? I come from a family of teachers. Not only are both my parents teachers, so are my maternal uncle and grandfather. My mum studied law and now teaches English, my dad teaches tech ed and woodshop type things, my uncle is a professor of Philosophy (makes things a little awkward now I'm preparing for departmental rivalries), and my grandfather used to be a professor of various things (social studies type stuff) whose general title I've forgotten.

[golentan]

You poor, poor student. I had some friend who had their mothers as teachers, and they HATED it the entire time. My sympathies.

My parents are both professors. Operations Research: the bastard lovechild of statistics, computer science, and whatever it is you're actually examining. They taught me algebra when I was in elementary school, and continue to run slideshows and presentations by me to be sure they make sense.

It's... actually kind of fun.

[Mono Vertigo]

*looks left, then right*
Okay, you both win. Have rainbow cookies.

[noparlpf]

*looks left, then right*
Okay, you both win. Have rainbow cookies.

I'm still working on outgrowing that juvenile, stereotypically male habit of turning everything into a pissing contest. ^-^;;

[Lentrax]

Aww, maan. I missed the pissing contest again?

Just kidding, I hate those things.

[Heliomance]

So Astrella deserves massive congratulations, but is too shy to tell y'all herself. So I'mma be cryptic so y'all ask her about it ^_^

[golentan]

I'm still working on outgrowing that juvenile, stereotypically male habit of turning everything into a pissing contest. ^-^;;

Wait, that was a pissing contest? I was just bragging up my family. Because they're awesome.

edit: Astrella? Please share.

[Lentrax]

Astrella, please. Explain Helio's cryptic remarks.

Please?

[Worira]

Yeah! Congratulations on that thing that I know what is!

[noparlpf]

Wait, that was a pissing contest? I was just bragging up my family. Because they're awesome.

Oh, I don't even know. Anything where you (probably meaning I) go and say so-and-so is even more whatever than whatever else, that's that attitude. Or something.

[Irish Musician]

*taps the mic*

Ahem, Astrella......Calling Astrella......Please come to the front desk and explain things.....:smallamused:

~Matthew~

[Selpharia]

Congratulations, Lena!

Granted, I'm not sure exactly what for, though I have my guesses. Well, since I like to assume that I'm right, and if its any of the things I'm thinking it might be, I'm really happy for you, congratulations.

~Laura

[Arachu]

This weekend is the 60th anniversary of a pioneering sex reassignment therapy. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20544095)
It's positive, and, most importantly, the right pronouns are used in this article.

:smallsmile:


So Astrella deserves massive congratulations, but is too shy to tell y'all herself. So I'mma be cryptic so y'all ask her about it ^_^

Lena, you should tell the thread of this thing while I go buy party supplies. :smalltongue: :smallbiggrin:


~Bianca

[KenderWizard]

Lena! Come get your hugs! :smallsmile:


That's pretty common for when they mess up inclusivity. At least it didn't have "Hispanic" under sexuality like one I saw.

O,o


Though, you have to admit, Ian McKellan and Patrick Stewart were wonderful choices.

In fact, I blame the writing more than the actors. And the fact that they were still just at the beginning of this recent superhero movie wave.

Absolutely! The actors were, with very few exceptions, all brilliant. I'd really like them to say "Okay, we messed up a bit, but listen, it's still cool, give us another chance? We're gonna tweak some things and get a couple new writers and we'll totally get this back on track, 'kay?"


We have a wonderful pair of brothers you can adopt today. Their names are Thor and Loki...

Kid!Thor and kid!Loki are SO CUTE! I'd totally adopt them! And tell Loki he was adopted from the start with lots of reassurance and love.

[Mina Kobold]

This weekend is the 60th anniversary of a pioneering sex reassignment therapy. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20544095)
It's positive, and, most importantly, the right pronouns are used in this article.

I just read that, I am both amazed at how much prejudice seems to have built up about trans stuff since the 1950ies (Eep! ._.) and kind of entranced that I live in the same city that it happened in. I wish we actually paid mind to ground-breaking stuff here. ^_^'

Also, I too am related to teachers, three of my grand-parents. Never had them as teachers, but it is fun that that trait correlates with so many people here. :3

I personally love English class, particularly since it lets me learn about stuff I find interesting. We are delving into Shakespearean sonnets now! ^_^

Reading Irvine Welsh revealed some disturbing transphobia among my peers, though. And among authors. ;_;


So Astrella deserves massive congratulations, but is too shy to tell y'all herself. So I'mma be cryptic so y'all ask her about it ^_^

Congratulations to Lena! I have no idea what I am congratulating, but you deserve it for your amazingness and I trust Helio to know that you really have something to be congratulated for. :smallsmile:

[pffh]

I'm still working on outgrowing that juvenile, stereotypically male habit of turning everything into a pissing contest. ^-^;;

Bet ya I can grow out of it faster then you. :smallamused:

[noparlpf]

Bet ya I can grow out of it faster then you. :smallamused:

You're on! :smalltongue:

[Lycunadari]

Congratulations to Lena! Please tell us, on what we are congratulating! :smallsmile:


This weekend is the 60th anniversary of a pioneering sex reassignment therapy. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20544095)
It's positive, and, most importantly, the right pronouns are used in this article.

Wow, that's awesome!



Also, I too am related to teachers, three of my grand-parents. Never had them as teachers, but it is fun that that trait correlates with so many people here. :3


My mother and grandfather were also teachers, but my mother stopped going to school when I was born, so I never were in the position to suffer or benefit from it. ^_^ Also, in Germany it is prohibited to have one's own parents as teachers.

Hugs and cookies for all who want them! :smallsmile:

[noparlpf]

My mother and grandfather were also teachers, but my mother stopped going to school when I was born, so I never were in the position to suffer or benefit from it. ^_^ Also, in Germany it is prohibited to have one's own parents as teachers.

It's probably against school policy at most US public schools, I'd imagine, but that was a private school, so they made their own rules.

[Absol197]

LenaLenaLenaLenaLenaLenaLena!!!!!!!

You have to tell us what's going on! I know it's Helio's fault, but now you're holding out on us!

...

...

I'mma esplode, so CONGRATS anyways, no matter what it is!


~Phoenix~

[KerfuffleMach2]

I'm still working on outgrowing that juvenile, stereotypically male habit of turning everything into a pissing contest. ^-^;;

As far as I know, that does not happen. My boss is pushing 60, and him and I will get into them on occasion. Course, he's also still into comics and stuff as well.

@Kender: Yeah, I really think every actor fit every role perfectly. They were just at the mercy of the writers.

And I add my congratulations to Lena as well! I know not why, but they have been added, and I shall not take them back.

[SiuiS]

My parents are both professors. Operations Research: the bastard lovechild of statistics, computer science, and whatever it is you're actually examining. They taught me algebra when I was in elementary school, and continue to run slideshows and presentations by me to be sure they make sense.

It's... actually kind of fun.

Sounds fun!


Aww, maan. I missed the pissing contest again?

Just kidding, I hate those things.

Yeah. Bein able to compete standing up is a perk in going to miss, though. Having to sit down an possibly cover the seat is, like, a whole 45 seconds more hassle!


Bet ya I can grow out of it faster then you. :smallamused:

Doubtful.


You're on! :smalltongue:

aaaand the downward spiral has begun :smalltongue:

[turkishproverb]

Congrats on Whatever it is Astrella! I won't pry.

[the_druid_droid]

Congratulations for things I am unsure of, save for the fact that they are good things, Astrella!


I'm still working on outgrowing that juvenile, stereotypically male habit of turning everything into a pissing contest. ^-^;;

Good luck! I still know far too many people suffering from this >.>


O,o

I keep reading that either as a tiny, horrified owl, or (because the top pixel looks jittery on my display) someone with no nose and a very short eye-mouth distance, also horrified.

[Kindablue]

I keep reading that either as a tiny, horrified owl, or (because the top pixel looks jittery on my display) someone with no nose and a very short eye-mouth distance, also horrified.

I saw Cyrano de Bergerac finding out about eHarmony.

[Astrella]

Uhm, okies so:

Endo appointment this morning. I was joking with a friend about how the more I plan things out, the more things go wrong cause I was checking the public transport information for the fifth time during that conversation.

So when I get off the train in the city I had to be at I found out that the bus I was supposed to take didn't come by the busstop anymore cause of road works. So we have me being in a city I've never been before not knowing anything about the bus network needing to get to the hospital. It took me over an hour of running around and taking several buses to get to the hospital half an hour late. >.> I had called them though when I realized I'd be late so there were really nice about it.

The endocrinologist was really nice and awesome and understanding about my parents for the registration bits (cause I still live with them) etc... When she took my blood pressure it was 180 cause of all the running and panicking. >.> Also butterfly syringes are really cool! So she explained stuff about the process and such and I'm probably going to be starting on anti-androgens and a low dose of estrogen that will go up cause they want to monitor what it does.

But yes, so if things go okay the blood test results could already be in next week and I'd have my prescriptions as well then! :smallbiggrin:

-----

I don't want to brag or make people jealous though...

[noparlpf]

Uhm, okies so:

Endo appointment this morning. I was joking with a friend about how the more I plan things out, the more things go wrong cause I was checking the public transport information for the fifth time during that conversation.

So when I get off the train in the city I had to be at I found out that the bus I was supposed to take didn't come by the busstop anymore cause of road works. So we have me being in a city I've never been before not knowing anything about the bus network needing to get to the hospital. It took me over an hour of running around and taking several buses to get to the hospital half an hour late. >.> I had called them though when I realized I'd be late so there were really nice about it.

The endocrinologist was really nice and awesome and understanding about my parents for the registration bits (cause I still live with them) etc... When she took my blood pressure it was 180 cause of all the running and panicking. >.> Also butterfly syringes are really cool! So she explained stuff about the process and such and I'm probably going to be starting on AA's and a low dose of E that will go up cause they want to monitor what it does.

But yes, so if things go okay the blood test results could already be in next week and I'd have my prescriptions as well then! :smallbiggrin:

-----

I don't want to brag or make people jealous though...

Congratulations!
Sorry about the buses, being stranded in a strange city can be scary.

[Irish Musician]

Uhm, okies so:

Endo appointment this morning. I was joking with a friend about how the more I plan things out, the more things go wrong cause I was checking the public transport information for the fifth time during that conversation.

So when I get off the train in the city I had to be at I found out that the bus I was supposed to take didn't come by the busstop anymore cause of road works. So we have me being in a city I've never been before not knowing anything about the bus network needing to get to the hospital. It took me over an hour of running around and taking several buses to get to the hospital half an hour late. >.> I had called them though when I realized I'd be late so there were really nice about it.

The endocrinologist was really nice and awesome and understanding about my parents for the registration bits (cause I still live with them) etc... When she took my blood pressure it was 180 cause of all the running and panicking. >.> Also butterfly syringes are really cool! So she explained stuff about the process and such and I'm probably going to be starting on AA's and a low dose of E that will go up cause they want to monitor what it does.

But yes, so if things go okay the blood test results could already be in next week and I'd have my prescriptions as well then! :smallbiggrin:

-----

I don't want to brag or make people jealous though...

I am so happy for you, and can't express the pure joy I am feeling right now because of the joy you are feeling right now! Congrats! :smallbiggrin:

[Selpharia]

Uhm, okies so:

Endo appointment this morning. I was joking with a friend about how the more I plan things out, the more things go wrong cause I was checking the public transport information for the fifth time during that conversation.

So when I get off the train in the city I had to be at I found out that the bus I was supposed to take didn't come by the busstop anymore cause of road works. So we have me being in a city I've never been before not knowing anything about the bus network needing to get to the hospital. It took me over an hour of running around and taking several buses to get to the hospital half an hour late. >.> I had called them though when I realized I'd be late so there were really nice about it.

The endocrinologist was really nice and awesome and understanding about my parents for the registration bits (cause I still live with them) etc... When she took my blood pressure it was 180 cause of all the running and panicking. >.> Also butterfly syringes are really cool! So she explained stuff about the process and such and I'm probably going to be starting on AA's and a low dose of E that will go up cause they want to monitor what it does.

But yes, so if things go okay the blood test results could already be in next week and I'd have my prescriptions as well then! :smallbiggrin:

-----

I don't want to brag or make people jealous though...

That's great, sweetie! I'm glad everyone was so nice and understanding about everything, especially being late. Well done navigating the bus routes in a strange city, I'm pretty sure I couldn't do that well, and I've lived in this city for years.

Honestly, this made my day, just imagining how happy you must be. Normally I'm a jealous harpy, but just hearing your good news has made me much more hopeful about my own situation. And besides, sometimes, you have a right to be happy and brag a little, and I think this is one of those times.

Hope things keep going well!:smallsmile:

~Laura

[Zorg]

Hooray for news Astrella :smallbiggrin:
And don't worry about jealousy - I mean I am :smalltongue: - but far more happy! They sound like a very supportive crew to be seeing too.
In related news I'll be seeing my gp to get a referral to the Sydney trans endo specialist, though I won't be going til next year.

[SiuiS]

Uhm, okies so:

Endo appointment this morning. I was joking with a friend about how the more I plan things out, the more things go wrong cause I was checking the public transport information for the fifth time during that conversation.

So when I get off the train in the city I had to be at I found out that the bus I was supposed to take didn't come by the busstop anymore cause of road works. So we have me being in a city I've never been before not knowing anything about the bus network needing to get to the hospital. It took me over an hour of running around and taking several buses to get to the hospital half an hour late. >.> I had called them though when I realized I'd be late so there were really nice about it.

The endocrinologist was really nice and awesome and understanding about my parents for the registration bits (cause I still live with them) etc... When she took my blood pressure it was 180 cause of all the running and panicking. >.> Also butterfly syringes are really cool! So she explained stuff about the process and such and I'm probably going to be starting on AA's and a low dose of E that will go up cause they want to monitor what it does.

But yes, so if things go okay the blood test results could already be in next week and I'd have my prescriptions as well then! :smallbiggrin:

-----

I don't want to brag or make people jealous though...

Awesome!

This sounds kind of like an Acanthus/Thyrsus style awakening, to be honest. Are you secretly a reality warping sorcerer? Because that would be ace.


Hooray for news Astrella :smallbiggrin:
And don't worry about jealousy - I mean I am :smalltongue: - but far more happy! They sound like a very supportive crew to be seeing too.
In related news I'll be seeing my gp to get a referral to the Sydney trans endo specialist, though I won't be going til next year.

"Oh, I bet this is Zorg, let's just scroll sidewaaAAAAGH!"

Nice avatar XD

Good news, too! I'm glad things are still going strong for you.


... Curses! DD, now I want to draw a scared owl and I blame you!

[Lentrax]

Uhm, okies so:

Endo appointment this morning. I was joking with a friend about how the more I plan things out, the more things go wrong cause I was checking the public transport information for the fifth time during that conversation.

So when I get off the train in the city I had to be at I found out that the bus I was supposed to take didn't come by the busstop anymore cause of road works. So we have me being in a city I've never been before not knowing anything about the bus network needing to get to the hospital. It took me over an hour of running around and taking several buses to get to the hospital half an hour late. >.> I had called them though when I realized I'd be late so there were really nice about it.

The endocrinologist was really nice and awesome and understanding about my parents for the registration bits (cause I still live with them) etc... When she took my blood pressure it was 180 cause of all the running and panicking. >.> Also butterfly syringes are really cool! So she explained stuff about the process and such and I'm probably going to be starting on AA's and a low dose of E that will go up cause they want to monitor what it does.

But yes, so if things go okay the blood test results could already be in next week and I'd have my prescriptions as well then! :smallbiggrin:

Yay! I'm glad it went well for you, especially considering what you had to do just to get there. I hope everything comes back okay, it would make a great start to the holiday season.


And Zorg. I don't know what it is about your new avvy, but she creeps me out a little. The way she looks at me, or the hat or something. Just creepy. Now I know what's haunting my dreams later...

[KenderWizard]

I keep reading that either as a tiny, horrified owl, or (because the top pixel looks jittery on my display) someone with no nose and a very short eye-mouth distance, also horrified.

I kind of think of it as a horrified and baffled owl! :smallbiggrin:


Uhm, okies so:
*snip awesome news*

Well done, honey! You're so cool to have kept it together and found a different way to get there. And, congratulations!! It's so great you're moving forward and especially great that your medical team sounds like they're really nice and copped on. Good news all round!

I don't want to say too much about you not wanting to be seen as bragging, since I don't want to come across like I'm speaking for other people, but I think a lot of us are very interested and invested in your story, cause we're friends. If it was me, and I had got some hypothetical recognition or progress that should be available to everyone and isn't (like if I got the right to marry my hypothetical girlfriend), I'd try to be aware not to rub it in but I'd definitely want to share.

[Zorg]

And Zorg. I don't know what it is about your new avvy, but she creeps me out a little. The way she looks at me, or the hat or something. Just creepy. Now I know what's haunting my dreams later...

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/Lentrax.jpg

You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why
The Shadow Broker is coming to town

She's making a list,
Checking it twice;
Gonna find out who's naughty or nice.
The Shadow Broker is coming to town

She sees you when you're sleeping
She knows when you're awake
She knows if you've been bad or good
So be good or she'll flay you with her mind

[Irish Musician]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/Lentrax.jpg

You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why
The Shadow Broker is coming to town

She's making a list,
Checking it twice;
Gonna find out who's naughty or nice.
The Shadow Broker is coming to town

She sees you when you're sleeping
She knows when you're awake
She knows if you've been bad or good
So be good or she'll flay you with her mind
BBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !:smallbiggrin:

[Lentrax]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/Lentrax.jpg

You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why
The Shadow Broker is coming to town

She's making a list,
Checking it twice;
Gonna find out who's naughty or nice.
The Shadow Broker is coming to town

She sees you when you're sleeping
She knows when you're awake
She knows if you've been bad or good
So be good or she'll flay you with her mind

Thanks, hon. That is great.

Just great.:smalleek:

[Zorg]

I'm sorry :smallfrown:

If it helps I can track you down and make you feel better...



Much better...


;)

[Lentrax]

Mmm...

Much as I'd like that, there is that pesky ocean and most of another continent in your way.

PLus, I'm not sure what the wife would think.

[Zorg]

I can win her over with gifts. I've got a large supply of lotion down in the pit in the spare room I'm not using.

True story time: I once asked my dad what he was having for dinner (over the phone). He was cooking up some liver with a side of fava beans so I asked if he was going to have a nice chianti. He had no idea what I was talking about or why I was laughing.

Edit: and my Dad's coming to town in two weeks for dinner with my bro & I. He knows my GF and I have split but my Mum dodged the reason why when talking to him. Want to come out to him then, but I'm worried he'll do the whole "you've ruined Christmas" thing on me. But on the other hand I should tell him ASAP I suppose.

[SiuiS]

ASAP is best sap. Sure, they'll try to sell you BSAP down through HSAP, but don't believe the lies. the quality just isn't the same. For good, CMC approved sap, you want ASAP.

Personally, I always found "you've exposed my prejudices and revealed me to be a dink" them ruining Christmas, not me.

[Zorg]

ASAP is best sap. Sure, they'll try to sell you BSAP down through HSAP, but don't believe the lies. the quality just isn't the same. For good, CMC approved sap, you want ASAP.

I'll file it next to my TPS report (http://youtu.be/XkDHDYy_9cE).


Personally, I always found "you've exposed my prejudices and revealed me to be a dink" them ruining Christmas, not me.

I'm thinking more that it's "unable to control" than exposing - I know the prejudices are there already which I why I'm not looking forward to it and am predicting this outcome.
Planning to speak to my bro to enlist his support in some capacity. Part of the problem is my Dad has been and still is very ill (almost died from cancer), so I'm worried that this could seriously affect him in a very real sense if he takes it badly (which I'd put at an 85% likelyhood).

[PlusSixPelican]

I'm back! Presumably from the dead, or something.

Anyways, hi all! *hands out cookies*

[Mina Kobold]

Uhm, okies so:

Endo appointment this morning. I was joking with a friend about how the more I plan things out, the more things go wrong cause I was checking the public transport information for the fifth time during that conversation.

So when I get off the train in the city I had to be at I found out that the bus I was supposed to take didn't come by the busstop anymore cause of road works. So we have me being in a city I've never been before not knowing anything about the bus network needing to get to the hospital. It took me over an hour of running around and taking several buses to get to the hospital half an hour late. >.> I had called them though when I realized I'd be late so there were really nice about it.

The endocrinologist was really nice and awesome and understanding about my parents for the registration bits (cause I still live with them) etc... When she took my blood pressure it was 180 cause of all the running and panicking. >.> Also butterfly syringes are really cool! So she explained stuff about the process and such and I'm probably going to be starting on AA's and a low dose of E that will go up cause they want to monitor what it does.

But yes, so if things go okay the blood test results could already be in next week and I'd have my prescriptions as well then! :smallbiggrin:

-----

I don't want to brag or make people jealous though...

Many more congratulations, that is a great bit of wintertime news! ^_^


Edit: and my Dad's coming to town in two weeks for dinner with my bro & I. He knows my GF and I have split but my Mum dodged the reason why when talking to him. Want to come out to him then, but I'm worried he'll do the whole "you've ruined Christmas" thing on me. But on the other hand I should tell him ASAP I suppose.

Your parent already knows the bad news of you two splitting up, the reason (barring some other bad news, like crime) is no excuse to get in a sour mood. You are showing that you trust those who raised you enough to let them know of a very private and personal realisation you have made, that is a very sharing thing to do. :smallsmile:

If you do get accused, I will have to agree with SiuiS, they are the ones being grumpy over you not lying. Both you and they are adults, they should be mature enough to enjoy the holidays despite everything they may disagree with or lament, to put aside their differences for a few days, as so many wintertime specials say we should this time of year. ^_^

But then again, I hail from strange lands that still celebrate the Yule of our Viking brethen through mighty feasts of the most Viking of meals! Cookies! :3

Hope some of that helped, I am not terribly good at being helpful when tired. ^_^'

Tiny PS: I really like you avatar, the hat is just perfect. :smallsmile:

[Zorg]

Noooo, not over keeping the reason from him, but for the reason itself. My Dad is ex-Navy and pretty uptight and kinda bigotted. I've seen him be fine around gay people, so he's not a raving hopophobe, but old habits die hard and the Navy wasn't a very tolerant organisation. I doubt he has any knowledge of trans stuff at all outside of the media, which as we know is terrible.
I'm fully expecting that he'll never speak to me again after I come out to him, or at least not for some time - my Dad didn't talk to my brother for about a month after he got a tattoo and didn't talk to his own mother for almost two years over something trivial.

Me being trans could very well kill him in a literal as well as metaphorical sense. Of course he could surprise me completely and be fine, but I'm not hopeful. Even his version of fine is likely to be painful to deal with.

Then I've got to do my daughter and her mother :smallsigh: at least then it will be done.

[SiuiS]

I'm thinking more that it's "unable to control" than exposing - I know the prejudices are there already which I why I'm not looking forward to it and am predicting this outcome.

Aye. I'm fully willing to admit that such a stance can be overly harsh. I'm trying to fix that myself, but I'm finding more and more if I'm not a tough, callous renegade bastard with high standards I'm basically a scared filly. Shivering in the corner doesn't get much done, so I regress to renegade bastard.

There's really no problem with such biases so long as the person can be aware of them, too. I mean, of it's a conscious choice you can choose what you want, y'know? Plus context. It's a sensitive issue.


Planning to speak to my bro to enlist his support in some capacity. Part of the problem is my Dad has been and still is very ill (almost died from cancer), so I'm worried that this could seriously affect him in a very real sense if he takes it badly (which I'd put at an 85% likelyhood).

Hmm. Aye, context. If you think it can wait, go ahead. If not, though, I would suggest a bit of gentle remorselessness. If he was in the military as you said then I think he could at least respect the no bones about it approach, at risk of you Being A Man About It backfiring when you say you are in fact a woman.

But you know him better than I! I'm just throwing out info to see what sticks. :smallsmile:


Noooo, not over keeping the reason from him, but for the reason itself. My Dad is ex-Navy and pretty uptight and kinda bigotted. I've seen him be fine around gay people, so he's not a raving hopophobe, but old habits die hard and the Navy wasn't a very tolerant organisation. I doubt he has any knowledge of trans stuff at all outside of the media, which as we know is terrible.
I'm fully expecting that he'll never speak to me again after I come out to him, or at least not for some time - my Dad didn't talk to my brother for about a month after he got a tattoo and didn't talk to his own mother for almost two years over something trivial.

Me being trans could very well kill him in a literal as well as metaphorical sense. Of course he could surprise me completely and be fine, but I'm not hopeful. Even his version of fine is likely to be painful to deal with.

Then I've got to do my daughter and her mother :smallsigh: at least then it will be done.

It takes me a minute when hearing "the navy" to remember you're not American. I was going to say, with all due respect, the navy is sort of a running gay joke. But then again, Australia. You come from Brits (who were sea worthy) and rugged folk too aggressive for the regular Brits to want around. For all I know an Australian carrier could have a redwood forest aboard for keeping your lumberjack skills sharp while away from land (and to build your own escape raft slash party barge).

On the plus side, I think your daughter will be an easy go of things, and it might help make you feel better!

[Mina Kobold]

Noooo, not over keeping the reason from him, but for the reason itself. My Dad is ex-Navy and pretty uptight and kinda bigotted. I've seen him be fine around gay people, so he's not a raving hopophobe, but old habits die hard and the Navy wasn't a very tolerant organisation. I doubt he has any knowledge of trans stuff at all outside of the media, which as we know is terrible.
I'm fully expecting that he'll never speak to me again after I come out to him, or at least not for some time - my Dad didn't talk to my brother for about a month after he got a tattoo and didn't talk to his own mother for almost two years over something trivial.

Me being trans could very well kill him in a literal as well as metaphorical sense. Of course he could surprise me completely and be fine, but I'm not hopeful. Even his version of fine is likely to be painful to deal with.

Then I've got to do my daughter and her mother :smallsigh: at least then it will be done.

I was referring to the nature of the reason too, sorry for being incomprehensible. ^_^'

Ouch, that sounds very very bad. I am not sure I can say anything other than that I hope your being trans may break through some of that and make them rethink those positions. It sounds very sad for someone to feel so offended at trivial things as to forego talking with those most dear to them. ;_;

I hope everything goes as well as it can, and I am positively sure that your child will be just fine. Most children are very open, and I doubt someone you had a serious relationship with could be bad at all. ^_^

[noparlpf]

I'm thinking more that it's "unable to control" than exposing - I know the prejudices are there already which I why I'm not looking forward to it and am predicting this outcome.
Planning to speak to my bro to enlist his support in some capacity. Part of the problem is my Dad has been and still is very ill (almost died from cancer), so I'm worried that this could seriously affect him in a very real sense if he takes it badly (which I'd put at an 85% likelyhood).

Eek. I can see why you're worrying about that, then. Good luck.

[the_druid_droid]

"Oh, I bet this is Zorg, let's just scroll sidewaaAAAAGH!"

Nice avatar XD

I was reading this thread on my phone today during lunch, and I did almost exactly the same thing, down to the reaction...


... Curses! DD, now I want to draw a scared owl and I blame you!

Good, good... my goal is to make an offhand comment that inspires art which then goes viral. This is all part of the plan.


I kind of think of it as a horrified and baffled owl! :smallbiggrin:

This is also acceptable!


http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/Lentrax.jpg

You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why
The Shadow Broker is coming to town

She's making a list,
Checking it twice;
Gonna find out who's naughty or nice.
The Shadow Broker is coming to town

She sees you when you're sleeping
She knows when you're awake
She knows if you've been bad or good
So be good or she'll flay you with her mind

SWEET MOTHER OF SANITY!

That is... I'll just be in this corner over here...


Noooo, not over keeping the reason from him, but for the reason itself. My Dad is ex-Navy and pretty uptight and kinda bigotted. I've seen him be fine around gay people, so he's not a raving hopophobe, but old habits die hard and the Navy wasn't a very tolerant organisation. I doubt he has any knowledge of trans stuff at all outside of the media, which as we know is terrible.
I'm fully expecting that he'll never speak to me again after I come out to him, or at least not for some time - my Dad didn't talk to my brother for about a month after he got a tattoo and didn't talk to his own mother for almost two years over something trivial.

Me being trans could very well kill him in a literal as well as metaphorical sense. Of course he could surprise me completely and be fine, but I'm not hopeful. Even his version of fine is likely to be painful to deal with.

Then I've got to do my daughter and her mother :smallsigh: at least then it will be done.

Sorry to hear the situation is so thorny, but I'm wishing you all the best luck in dealing with it, which is regrettably about the limit of what I can offer.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Well, Zorg, I think it's obvious you have all of our support in this decision. Which is always a bonus.

I say to go ahead with it. You know who and what you are, and as he is your father, it's your responsibility to share this. He may not react well, but that's on him. You shouldn't have to hide who you are to have a relationship with him. Because, really, a relationship where one person hides who they are isn't a good one.

I know that the risk of him not talking to you anymore is a big thing. If that does happen, you can't blame yourself. It will in no way be your fault.

That being said, you may want to wait until the day after to tell him, depending on how long he'll be with you. That should help avoid any awkward silences during Christmas dinner.

I wish you luck in your endeavor.

[Arachu]

Uhm, okies so:

Endo appointment this morning. I was joking with a friend about how the more I plan things out, the more things go wrong cause I was checking the public transport information for the fifth time during that conversation.

So when I get off the train in the city I had to be at I found out that the bus I was supposed to take didn't come by the busstop anymore cause of road works. So we have me being in a city I've never been before not knowing anything about the bus network needing to get to the hospital. It took me over an hour of running around and taking several buses to get to the hospital half an hour late. >.> I had called them though when I realized I'd be late so there were really nice about it.

The endocrinologist was really nice and awesome and understanding about my parents for the registration bits (cause I still live with them) etc... When she took my blood pressure it was 180 cause of all the running and panicking. >.> Also butterfly syringes are really cool! So she explained stuff about the process and such and I'm probably going to be starting on AA's and a low dose of E that will go up cause they want to monitor what it does.

But yes, so if things go okay the blood test results could already be in next week and I'd have my prescriptions as well then! :smallbiggrin:

-----

I don't want to brag or make people jealous though...

:smallbiggrin:


http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/Lentrax.jpg

You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why
The Shadow Broker is coming to town

She's making a list,
Checking it twice;
Gonna find out who's naughty or nice.
The Shadow Broker is coming to town

She sees you when you're sleeping
She knows when you're awake
She knows if you've been bad or good
So be good or she'll flay you with her mind

*Tries and fails to find an image of Shepard's reaction to EDI's joke about "forgetting to maintain oxygen levels"* DXD


Noooo, not over keeping the reason from him, but for the reason itself. My Dad is ex-Navy and pretty uptight and kinda bigotted. I've seen him be fine around gay people, so he's not a raving hopophobe, but old habits die hard and the Navy wasn't a very tolerant organisation. I doubt he has any knowledge of trans stuff at all outside of the media, which as we know is terrible.
I'm fully expecting that he'll never speak to me again after I come out to him, or at least not for some time - my Dad didn't talk to my brother for about a month after he got a tattoo and didn't talk to his own mother for almost two years over something trivial.

Me being trans could very well kill him in a literal as well as metaphorical sense. Of course he could surprise me completely and be fine, but I'm not hopeful. Even his version of fine is likely to be painful to deal with.

Then I've got to do my daughter and her mother :smallsigh: at least then it will be done.

*Hugs* I don't think you have to tell him if you don't want to (after all, it's your information to withhold), but I'd recommend telling him if it's important. I hope it goes well~


~Bianca

[KenderWizard]

True story time: I once asked my dad what he was having for dinner (over the phone). He was cooking up some liver with a side of fava beans so I asked if he was going to have a nice chianti. He had no idea what I was talking about or why I was laughing.


I fell around laughing at this and then told my partner!


Noooo, not over keeping the reason from him, but for the reason itself. My Dad is ex-Navy and pretty uptight and kinda bigotted. I've seen him be fine around gay people, so he's not a raving hopophobe, but old habits die hard and the Navy wasn't a very tolerant organisation. I doubt he has any knowledge of trans stuff at all outside of the media, which as we know is terrible.
I'm fully expecting that he'll never speak to me again after I come out to him, or at least not for some time - my Dad didn't talk to my brother for about a month after he got a tattoo and didn't talk to his own mother for almost two years over something trivial.

Me being trans could very well kill him in a literal as well as metaphorical sense. Of course he could surprise me completely and be fine, but I'm not hopeful. Even his version of fine is likely to be painful to deal with.

Then I've got to do my daughter and her mother :smallsigh: at least then it will be done.

:smallfrown: That's really tough. I hope he copes well, for everyone's sake. What age is your daughter?

[Lentrax]

Zorg, I think this is probably something important enough that it should be done before it is too late. But I also don't want to sound pushy. It is your decision.

"Cake, and grief counseling will be avialable after."

The cake may be made by GLaDOS, but after you get past the neurotoxin, it's pretty good.

[Astrella]

Thank you everyone for both the kind words before and after I told it, it means a lot to me. :smallsmile:


Hooray for news Astrella :smallbiggrin:
And don't worry about jealousy - I mean I am :smalltongue: - but far more happy! They sound like a very supportive crew to be seeing too.
In related news I'll be seeing my gp to get a referral to the Sydney trans endo specialist, though I won't be going til next year.

Ooh, good luck! I hope everything turns out well. :smallsmile:


Awesome!

This sounds kind of like an Acanthus/Thyrsus style awakening, to be honest. Are you secretly a reality warping sorcerer? Because that would be ace.

A what now? O.o


Well done, honey! You're so cool to have kept it together and found a different way to get there. And, congratulations!! It's so great you're moving forward and especially great that your medical team sounds like they're really nice and copped on. Good news all round!

I don't want to say too much about you not wanting to be seen as bragging, since I don't want to come across like I'm speaking for other people, but I think a lot of us are very interested and invested in your story, cause we're friends. If it was me, and I had got some hypothetical recognition or progress that should be available to everyone and isn't (like if I got the right to marry my hypothetical girlfriend), I'd try to be aware not to rub it in but I'd definitely want to share.

Hm hm, thank you. :smallsmile:

And yeah, I really liked how well it was handled, it felt really affirming.


Noooo, not over keeping the reason from him, but for the reason itself. My Dad is ex-Navy and pretty uptight and kinda bigotted. I've seen him be fine around gay people, so he's not a raving hopophobe, but old habits die hard and the Navy wasn't a very tolerant organisation. I doubt he has any knowledge of trans stuff at all outside of the media, which as we know is terrible.
I'm fully expecting that he'll never speak to me again after I come out to him, or at least not for some time - my Dad didn't talk to my brother for about a month after he got a tattoo and didn't talk to his own mother for almost two years over something trivial.

Me being trans could very well kill him in a literal as well as metaphorical sense. Of course he could surprise me completely and be fine, but I'm not hopeful. Even his version of fine is likely to be painful to deal with.

Then I've got to do my daughter and her mother :smallsigh: at least then it will be done.

*all of the hugs*

I really hope it turns out well, Zorg. He might have improved on the queerphobic thing? Iunno.

[bluewind95]

Many *hugs* of congratulations and joy to Astrella.

And also *hugs* of support for Zorg.

[Heliomance]

A what now? O.o



Mage: The Awakening, a WoD line. A mage's Awakening is somewhat akin to a werewolf's First Change.

[Astrella]

Also, our dear Phoenix is wanting to show off the clothes she got, but I think she needs a bit more encouragement from the thread. :smallwink:


Many *hugs* of congratulations and joy to Astrella.

Thank you. :smallsmile:


Mage: The Awakening, a WoD line. A mage's Awakening is somewhat akin to a werewolf's First Change.

Aah, okies.

[supernerd]

Personally, I'm a big fan of Noun: the Gerunding. Also Congratulations to Astrella! That's wonderful news!

[KenderWizard]

Also, our dear Phoenix is wanting to show off the clothes she got, but I think she needs a bit more encouragement from the thread. :smallwink:


Phoe! Clothes! :smallbiggrin: If you don't mind, would you post pictures so we can gush over you? You don't have to, but we'd love to see! Well, I would, anyway!

[Astrella]

Personally, I'm a big fan of Noun: the Gerunding. Also Congratulations to Astrella! That's wonderful news!

Hm hm, our Werewolf: The Forsaken game with the LGBT+ crowd is turning out pretty good so far. Also thank you! :smallsmile:

-----

Oh, Zorg, something I thought of earlier. The list of transphobic myths (http://www.questioningtransphobia.com/?p=152) (that's the first one, there's more articles about others) on Questioning Transphobia or Natalie Reed's 13 Myths and Misconceptions about Trans Women (http://skepchick.org/2012/01/13-myths-and-misconceptions-about-trans-women-part-one/) might be useful links to give to people you're coming out to. (Depends of course on how you want to do it yourself.)

[noparlpf]

Phoe! Clothes! :smallbiggrin: If you don't mind, would you post pictures so we can gush over you? You don't have to, but we'd love to see! Well, I would, anyway!

I'd say go for it.

[Lentrax]

You got new clothes, Phee?

Oooh, can we see?

Please?

[Mina Kobold]

Personally, I'm a big fan of Noun: the Gerunding. Also Congratulations to Astrella! That's wonderful news!

"One day, I awoke to a new world of darkness, opened my eyes to the truth behind our languages. I became a Noun."

I could see that work. :3

And congratulations indeed, so much that I shall say it twice! ^_^


Phoe! Clothes! :smallbiggrin: If you don't mind, would you post pictures so we can gush over you? You don't have to, but we'd love to see! Well, I would, anyway!

Uh-huh! The Kobold-sector of the Kender-hive agrees! :smallsmile:

And, in case being nervous is all gloomy for Zorg, your avatar and wonderful presence here pretty much convinced me entirely to try to hunt down Mass Effect. ^_^

And on that note, trying to walk less than three days after spraining my ankle: Not the best idea. Ow. >_<

[Serpentine]

Hey, I went looking at that stuff about Ace Ventura out of curiosity (and, hoooo man. I last saw that before I even knew transsexuality was a thing, and I liked it back then. I'd like to see it again now and see how my newer understanding changes my view of it). Someone said this in the comments: "I’ve also never seen silence of the lambs or the crying game or any of the other hateful movies that have been made."
It's been a fair while since I saw it, but what's so bad about The Crying Game? It seemed pretty sensitive to me, and
the guy's reaction to the "reveal", although no doubt triggering and unpleasant, isn't particularly unrealistic I thought, and he dealt with it in a fairly mature way eventually but I have thought about asking this thread's opinions on it for a while, so maybe I just missed something - again, I saw it before I was really conscious of transsexuality.
As an aside, though, I saw it in a class on men and masculinity in film, and our analyses of Tootsie and Mrs Doubtfire really laid the foundations for the development of my views on heteronormativity and enforced gender.

[Astrella]

The guy vomits. The fact that he's confronted makes him vomit. And yes I know it's handled more nuanced when the movie goes on, but vomiting is such a strong signifier of disgust. Also take in account that this was one of the first movies that actually put a trans* person into the open. It wasn't as bad as others, but I still wouldn't call it a great portrayal.

I mean, it's sorta problematic when that's the best portrayal around... :/

I'm really glad trans visibility is improving. Imagine being trans* a decade ago and stuff like that being your only examples...

[Absol197]

Also, our dear Phoenix is wanting to show off the clothes she got, but I think she needs a bit more encouragement from the thread. :smallwink:

Curses, they found out :smallredface: !


Phoe! Clothes! :smallbiggrin: If you don't mind, would you post pictures so we can gush over you? You don't have to, but we'd love to see! Well, I would, anyway!


Uh-huh! The Kobold-sector of the Kender-hive agrees! :smallsmile:


I'd say go for it.


You got new clothes, Phee?

Oooh, can we see?

Please?

Weeellllll...maybe. I need to see if I can track down a camera I can use, and I also need to learn how to upload pictures to the internet. I could take all the pictures you could want, but without that, there's no way I could share them >_< .


~Phoenix~

[Astrella]

Weeellllll...maybe. I need to see if I can track down a camera I can use, and I also need to learn how to upload pictures to the internet. I could take all the pictures you could want, but without that, there's no way I could share them >_< .


~Phoenix~

Don't worry, if I managed to get pictures off that old clampphone of mine you can do it too. :smalltongue:

[Mono Vertigo]

Belated congratulations, Astrella! :smallsmile:

[the_druid_droid]

"One day, I awoke to a new world of darkness, opened my eyes to the truth behind our languages. I became a Noun."

I could see that work. :3

*dons Morpheus shades*

What if I told you the world you thought you knew was made up of participles, future pluperfects, and other syntactic lies?


Weeellllll...maybe. I need to see if I can track down a camera I can use, and I also need to learn how to upload pictures to the internet. I could take all the pictures you could want, but without that, there's no way I could share them >_< .

I find Photobucket (http://photobucket.com/) to be fairly easy to use. Once you sign up, you just have to click the green "Upload" button at the top of the screen and select the image file you want out from your computer's file browser.

[Astrella]

*dons Morpheus shades*

What if I told you the world you thought you knew was made up of participles, future pluperfects, and other syntactic lies?

Talking about the matrix... (http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4051)

[Lentrax]

*dons Morpheus shades*

What if I told you the world you thought you knew was made up of participles, future pluperfects, and other syntactic lies?


Just remember that the term 'future perfect' was eliminated once everyone found out it wasn't.

[KenderWizard]

Problematic portrayal of trans people in media:

The guy vomits. The fact that he's confronted makes him vomit. And yes I know it's handled more nuanced when the movie goes on, but vomiting is such a strong signifier of disgust. Also take in account that this was one of the first movies that actually put a trans* person into the open. It wasn't as bad as others, but I still wouldn't call it a great portrayal.

I mean, it's sorta problematic when that's the best portrayal around... :/

I'm really glad trans visibility is improving. Imagine being trans* a decade ago and stuff like that being your only examples...

The hell is with the vomiting?! I cannot think of anything someone could tell me about themselves that would result in me vomiting, and I have actually vomited from an uncontrollable emotional experience.

You know, I didn't used to know much about trans issues. I wouldn't have given all the right answers if I was asked, and there was a lot of stuff I didn't understand or even consider. But bloody hell, I think I still could have managed to not **** up that badly if teenage-Kender was put in charge of making a movie or tv show. I genuinely don't understand how someone could not only hate a group of people that much, but think that that's normal and okay and even funny.





Weeellllll...maybe. I need to see if I can track down a camera I can use, and I also need to learn how to upload pictures to the internet. I could take all the pictures you could want, but without that, there's no way I could share them >_< .


~Phoenix~

I second photobucket, it's very straightforward. I hope you can work something out! :smallsmile: And even if you can't, I'll just assume you look awesome, cause I bet you do.


Just remember that the term 'future perfect' was eliminated once everyone found out it wasn't.

I laughed!

[noparlpf]

Whenever somebody vomits in a movie it usually basically ruins the movie for me. When somebody vomits in a movie and it's supposed to be funny, that's like an automatic -6 stars.

[supernerd]

"One day, I awoke to a new world of darkness, opened my eyes to the truth behind our languages. I became a Noun."

I could see that work. :3

And congratulations indeed, so much that I shall say it twice! ^_^

After opening fight/cut scene: "So now I depend on those still Verbs to shape my destiny, and some inner force tells me it is great."

You are a wonderful person, and have created a monster. This would be a very fun game to make/play or rather, a very fun universe to just create. Fighting, Sneaking, and Healing for the Gerunds, and they are accomanied by the Abstracts Rage and Love, who are in an oddly stable romantic relationship.

And on Congrats, good luck with those pictures.

[Kindablue]

Problematic portrayal of trans people in media:


The hell is with the vomiting?! I cannot think of anything someone could tell me about themselves that would result in me vomiting, and I have actually vomited from an uncontrollable emotional experience.

You know, I didn't used to know much about trans issues. I wouldn't have given all the right answers if I was asked, and there was a lot of stuff I didn't understand or even consider. But bloody hell, I think I still could have managed to not **** up that badly if teenage-Kender was put in charge of making a movie or tv show. I genuinely don't understand how someone could not only hate a group of people that much, but think that that's normal and okay and even funny.

I can't believe we're putting spoilers around The Crying Game, but okay:
It isn't a comedy if that's what you mean here, it's a thriller about the IRA. And it's not just him finding out that she's trans that makes him vomit, they're in the process of having sex when he discovers her penis. The reaction is maybe homophobic, but I don't think the movie itself is hateful. I can understand being frustrated with how that scene is taken by most people—that the reaction is warranted—but I think that's most people's fault and not the movie's.

I was seven when I saw Ace Ventura and even then I thought it was juvenile and unfunny.

I've heard that there's a pretty transphobic scene in The Hangover II, but I haven't seen either of them.

And on that same general subject, I just saw Mulholland Dr. a few days ago, and if I had known there was that much lesbian homoeroticism in it I would've seen it years ago. I didn't find it as perplexing as I expected, but that scene really comes out of nowhere. Not that I'm complaining, of course.

[Lentrax]

I laughed!

You can thank Douglas Adams and his amazing five book Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy, for that laugh.

*Hugs for the best zarking froods a being could ever know, no matter your time frame.*

[KerfuffleMach2]

Hey, I went looking at that stuff about Ace Ventura out of curiosity (and, hoooo man. I last saw that before I even knew transsexuality was a thing, and I liked it back then. I'd like to see it again now and see how my newer understanding changes my view of it). Someone said this in the comments: "I’ve also never seen silence of the lambs or the crying game or any of the other hateful movies that have been made."
It's been a fair while since I saw it, but what's so bad about The Crying Game? It seemed pretty sensitive to me, and
the guy's reaction to the "reveal", although no doubt triggering and unpleasant, isn't particularly unrealistic I thought, and he dealt with it in a fairly mature way eventually but I have thought about asking this thread's opinions on it for a while, so maybe I just missed something - again, I saw it before I was really conscious of transsexuality.
As an aside, though, I saw it in a class on men and masculinity in film, and our analyses of Tootsie and Mrs Doubtfire really laid the foundations for the development of my views on heteronormativity and enforced gender.

Silence of the Lambs is hateful? I don't get that one. I could be missing something, but I really don't see it.

I haven't seen The Crying Game, so I have no idea about that. But, I will say that just because a character reacts bad doesn't mean that the whole movie is hateful.

Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire are both good movies. I love them.

[Delusion]

Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

[Astrella]

Silence of the Lambs is hateful? I don't get that one. I could be missing something, but I really don't see it.

I haven't seen The Crying Game, so I have no idea about that. But, I will say that just because a character reacts bad doesn't mean that the whole movie is hateful.

Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire are both good movies. I love them.

Well, you can't really go displaying a bunch of negative stereotypes about trans women and then go "it's okay, cause he's not really trans". Not to mention that their excuse is basically a whole bunch of gatekeeping nonsense.

I'm also iffy about crossdressing as humour. On one end there's freedom of (gender) expression, but the sad truth is that a lot of the humour often comes down to "man in a dress", which has strong transmysoginistic roots. There's a reason you almost never see the reverse played up for laughs.


Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

Oh, that's good I guess? A bit of an odd response though.

[Kindablue]

Silence of the Lambs is hateful? I don't get that one. I could be missing something, but I really don't see it.
Buffalo Bill wanted a sex change but was refused for psychological reasons, and Hannibal says at one point that he's not a "real transsexual," which a lot of people take as dismissive.


Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

Awww :smallsmile:

[Astrella]

Buffalo Bill wanted a sex change but was refused for psychological reasons, and Hannibal says at one point that he's not a "real transsexual," which a lot of people take as dismissive.:

Basically; this article (http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/film-quotations.html) has the relevant quotes. It's not just calling him not a 'real transsexual', it's a whole bunch of nonsense about drawing houses and all that. Not to mention there isn't really a thing like a 'real transsexual'.

[Lix Lorn]

*Considers maybe being less secretive* :smalltongue: :smallredface:

Also, *second Lixiepounce~* X3
Oooh, I do hope so and-eek! (blush)


Also, our dear Phoenix is wanting to show off the clothes she got, but I think she needs a bit more encouragement from the thread. :smallwink:
Personally, I'd like to see her WITHOUT (shot several times)


Personally, I'm a big fan of Noun: the Gerunding. Also Congratulations to Astrella! That's wonderful news!
Reminds me of the game system I started writing.
Protagonist: The Lampshading.


Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."
Best reply. Sounds like you should flirt to me :3

[the_druid_droid]

And on that same general subject, I just saw Mulholland Dr. a few days ago, and if I had known there was that much lesbian homoeroticism in it I would've seen it years ago. I didn't find it as perplexing as I expected, but that scene really comes out of nowhere. Not that I'm complaining, of course.

Oh man, my only experience with Mulholland Dr. is both hilarious and (I'm fairly certain) not board appropriate.

[Lentrax]

Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

You weren't before? :smallwink:


Oooh, I do hope so and-eek! (blush)


Personally, I'd like to see her WITHOUT (shot several times)


Reminds me of the game system I started writing.
Protagonist: The Lampshading.


Best reply. Sounds like you should flirt to me :3

Second every statement above. Although I have to ask about the Lampshading thing. Is that just for the heroes who get drunk, or cana anyone pt on a cool lampshade hat?:smallbiggrin:

Also: *Attack hug Lixie!*With a few tickles in there for good measure.

[Zorg]

It has obviously been a long time since I've watched Silence, as I don't remember any of those bits. Silence of the Hams is much better, IMO.
She's the Man is a girl crossdressing movie, and is pretty much a totally insane (http://mis-guided-souls.tumblr.com/post/32381581875) reworking of Shakespeare.

Congrats to you Delusion :smallsmile: I hope you are as happy as your avatar makes you seem :smallbiggrin:

Phoenix - I can second photobuck for being very easy to use. It is also good as you can set it to private so people can't access your folder(s) if you want to compartmentalise your photo sharing as I do.
Also good to hear about clothes - clothes are good :smallbiggrin:


-

And a big thanks for all the support, you wonderful people :smallsmile:

some specific replies:

Keveak - they're releasing or just released a trillogy set for Mass Effect, so now is a good time to get started!

Astrella - thanks for the links. I will keep them for later use :smallsmile:

Kender - my daughter is 10, so old enough to have a somewhat sensible conversation with. Unfortunately her mother and step-dad have just seperated after something like 8 years togther, so I'm not sure adding to her emotional turmoil will be good. But, she's pretty relaxed about most things and calls me by my first name anyways.
I'm somewhat concerned about her mother more, as she is quite religious so I don't know how she'll be (we don't exactly talk too much would you believe).
It's probably the uncertainty more than anything :/

Everyone else (and thanks again) - I'm 90% certain I'll tell my Dad when he comes up, I'd probably feel too guilty not doing it and it would be a weight off my mind at the very least.
As several of you have said if he chooses to cut ties that's his descision and there's not much I can do about it. I'd rather he didn't and I could end up being pleasantly surprised... but I doubt it. He probably will come around, but it will take time.

[Kindablue]

Oh man, my only experience with Mulholland Dr. is both hilarious and (I'm fairly certain) not board appropriate.
Were you that guy hiding behind the diner? Druids are kind of like magical homeless people, right?

Basically; this article (http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/film-quotations.html) has the relevant quotes. It's not just calling him not a 'real transsexual', it's a whole bunch of nonsense about drawing houses and all that. Not to mention there isn't really a thing like a 'real transsexual'.
I agree, though I guess I don't remember that scene as well as I thought. I remember the book having a lot of pop psychology in it, but that's pretty common in that sort of thing.

[KenderWizard]

I can't believe we're putting spoilers around The Crying Game, but okay:
It isn't a comedy if that's what you mean here, it's a thriller about the IRA. And it's not just him finding out that she's trans that makes him vomit, they're in the process of having sex when he discovers her penis. The reaction is maybe homophobic, but I don't think the movie itself is hateful. I can understand being frustrated with how that scene is taken by most people—that the reaction is warranted—but I think that's most people's fault and not the movie's.


I generally think it's better to spoiler than not spoiler if you're not sure. And Astrella spoilered so I spoilered my reply. *shrugs* So...

I don't mean it's a comedy or supposed to be a comedic moment in The Crying Game, I was generalising to other movies.

I see what you mean, and I haven't seen the movie myself so I'm no expert. I just think it doesn't take that much thought to see that maybe it would be unnecessarily hurtful to trans people and not actually very important to the plot. From a plot point of view, what's the difference between the guy getting shocked and maybe upset and stopping the sexual encounter, and getting shocked and maybe upset and vomiting and stopping the sexual encounter?


You can thank Douglas Adams and his amazing five book Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy, for that laugh.

*Hugs for the best zarking froods a being could ever know, no matter your time frame.*

:smallbiggrin: I <3 Adams! I don't remember that line. I should read the five books in The Increasingly Inaccurately Named Trilogy of Four again!




I'm also iffy about crossdressing as humour. On one end there's freedom of (gender) expression, but the sad truth is that a lot of the humour often comes down to "man in a dress", which has strong transmysoginistic roots. There's a reason you almost never see the reverse played up for laughs.


Yeah, I don't like it. I'm fine with people who want to play with genderbending doing that, if that's what they're into, but when the be-all and end-all is "Look! A man in women's clothing! It's funny because women's clothing is just for women, and when a man wears it, it's wrong!" it's all kind of icky; transphobic and misogynistic, usually.



Kender - my daughter is 10, so old enough to have a somewhat sensible conversation with. Unfortunately her mother and step-dad have just seperated after something like 8 years togther, so I'm not sure adding to her emotional turmoil will be good. But, she's pretty relaxed about most things and calls me by my first name anyways.
I'm somewhat concerned about her mother more, as she is quite religious so I don't know how she'll be (we don't exactly talk too much would you believe).
It's probably the uncertainty more than anything :/

Everyone else (and thanks again) - I'm 90% certain I'll tell my Dad when he comes up, I'd probably feel too guilty not doing it and it would be a weight off my mind at the very least.
As several of you have said if he chooses to cut ties that's his descision and there's not much I can do about it. I'd rather he didn't and I could end up being pleasantly surprised... but I doubt it. He probably will come around, but it will take time.

Well, good luck with all of it! Kids can deal with almost anything provided they have people to rely on, so I'm sure your daughter will be fine, once you make it clear you're not leaving her or loving her any less. :smallsmile:

[Astrella]

Belated congratulations, Astrella! :smallsmile:

Thank you! :smallsmile:

-----

Re: trans* portrayals

The main problem is that that is what 90 % of trans* portrayals is like, the balance is just completely off. We're either pathetic people to take pity on, deceivers, jokes or psychopaths. We're something used for sensationalism; a thing to spice up a villain, etc... there just are so very little really positive trans* portrayals out there...

Edit; hope I'm not coming over too angry / whatever... :c

-----

I hope things go well anyway, Zorg! Also kids are often a lot more understanding that older folks, so I hope it goes well with your daughter too!

[SiuiS]

Lena; it is a Mage thing, yes. Acanthus are enchanters, sorcerers of time and fate, destiny and million-to-one chances. They move through life on one lucky stroke after another, free from planning to enjoy life as it comes. Thyrsus are life/spirit, shamans on the path of ecstasy. Hardship, sensation and physicality are their purview.

An awakening is that point were you go through something and realize the truth behind existence: it's like seeing something thatakea you realize you're in the matrix.


Hm hm, our Werewolf: The Forsaken game with the LGBT+ crowd is turning out pretty good so far. Also thank you! :smallsmile:

Yes!



Oh, Zorg, something I thought of earlier. The list of transphobic myths (http://www.questioningtransphobia.com/?p=152) (that's the first one, there's more articles about others) on Questioning Transphobia or Natalie Reed's 13 Myths and Misconceptions about Trans Women (http://skepchick.org/2012/01/13-myths-and-misconceptions-about-trans-women-part-one/) might be useful links to give to people you're coming out to. (Depends of course on how you want to do it yourself.)

Ooh useful.


"One day, I awoke to a new world of darkness, opened my eyes to the truth behind our languages. I became a Noun."

I could see that work. :3

I dunno, that still sounds like a Mage to me. Space/fate/prime, I'd say.



And on that note, trying to walk less than three days after spraining my ankle: Not the best idea. Ow. >_<

T~T


Hey, I went looking at that stuff about Ace Ventura out of curiosity (and, hoooo man. I last saw that before I even knew transsexuality was a thing, and I liked it back then. I'd like to see it again now and see how my newer understanding changes my view of it).

Right, I keep dropping that quote.
Personally? I understand how misfortunate Ace Ventura seems, but someone getting extreme cosmetic surgery to get close to a target is sort of a genre trope. We have the blak guy who gets facially reconstructed into a white guy, and that doesn't say anything bad about black people. Why does the guy who gets reconstructed into a girl have to say something bad about trans people? I was pretty young but I got the difference right off the bat. Even during the heyday of Jerry Springer et al I knew of some ephemeral difference between the transvestites and the ones who considered themselves women. There was some je ne sais quoi there that made it, and still makes it, a separate idea in my head.


*dons Morpheus shades*

What if I told you the world you thought you knew was made up of participles, future pluperfects, and other syntactic lies?

"What? What are you talking about? What's a pluperfect? Why can't I be a normal Mastigos and do easy things like traffic with demons as face eternal temptation?"



I find Photobucket (http://photobucket.com/) to be fairly easy to use. Once you sign up, you just have to click the green "Upload" button at the top of the screen and select the image file you want out from your computer's file browser.

And there is a phone app! I use it rather often. Turns out even really bad pictures on my phone have better resolution than my scanner.

You're gonna have to go to it on an actual computer to change file names though, unless you like links that are a bajillionty letters long. I don't know why my phone accepts bajillionty as a word, but I am pleased as punch.



And then I realize we are talking about different movies and I just delete this here quote.




Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

Nice!


Basically; this article (http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/film-quotations.html) has the relevant quotes. It's not just calling him not a 'real transsexual', it's a whole bunch of nonsense about drawing houses and all that. Not to mention there isn't really a thing like a 'real transsexual'.

This was actually covered a while back, like ten pages ago.
The test is unfortunate, really, but... Actually, no, that statelet doesn't support itself. I'll just leave it at the test beig unfortunate.


Oh man, my only experience with Mulholland Dr. is both hilarious and (I'm fairly certain) not board appropriate.

This sounds like I need to see this movie.



Phoenix - I can second photobuck for being very easy to use. It is also good as you can set it to private so people can't access your folder(s) if you want to compartmentalise your photo sharing as I do.

Oh man, really? That could have stopped so many awkward moments. How do I do that?



I'm somewhat concerned about her mother more, as she is quite religious so I don't know how she'll be (we don't exactly talk too much would you believe).
It's probably the uncertainty more than anything :/

Random flare of aggravation. That's not really an excuse on their part! It's not religious, it is straight bigotry! They have to search for justification to back them up, I doubt anyone upon first discovering transsexuality is a thing can just cite some anti-trans liturgy, no matter which religion.


Rargh I want to rage forum y u no outlet?
Yeah because rules, I know.


Everyone else (and thanks again) - I'm 90% certain I'll tell my Dad when he comes up, I'd probably feel too guilty not doing it and it would be a weight off my mind at the very least.
As several of you have said if he chooses to cut ties that's his descision and there's not much I can do about it. I'd rather he didn't and I could end up being pleasantly surprised... but I doubt it. He probably will come around, but it will take time.

Best of luck!


Were you that guy hiding behind the diner? Druids are kind of like magical homeless people, right?

Fits me to a T almost...


I agree, though I guess I don't remember that scene as well as I thought. I remember the book having a lot of pop psychology in it, but that's pretty common in that sort of thing.

I remember it quite clearly actually. That, the guy being talked into choking on his own tongue (and why), and the phrase "she was a woman and a half in every direction, and she knew it" which stuck with me since I was really young, and always made me wider why tall women feel so self conscious. I mean, of you're a magnificent piece of work, wouldn't being bigger (in the sense of being the same proportions and just kind of zoomed) make you better?

[the_druid_droid]

Were you that guy hiding behind the diner? Druids are kind of like magical homeless people, right?

Well, the circumstances surrounding my watching of it make it somewhat difficult to remember what actually happened in the movie, so maybe? I don't really recall that guy, although I do remember the diner...

And really, all D&D casters are magical hobos.


"What? What are you talking about? What's a pluperfect? Why can't I be a normal Mastigos and do easy things like traffic with demons as face eternal temptation?"

"Because Easy is part of the Lie"

[/AdamantineArrow]


I mean, of you're a magnificent piece of work, wouldn't being bigger (in the sense of being the same proportions and just kind of zoomed) make you better?

This is actually a pretty awesome thought

[SiuiS]

Bollocks. I can't horn brain today. If you're 50% superior along each of three axes, how much superior does that make the whole deal? Is it multiplicative? Is I just 50%? Is there a square/cube thing going on?

Careful, Keveak. Mass effect sounds fun, but then you look at your watch and you have to work in six hours an should go to sleep for a bit, but you just got tech armor and this next mission should take 15 minutes, at the most.
Actually it still sounds fun. It's not often I quit because I can't remember I I'm playing Xbox or PS3...

[Kindablue]

I generally think it's better to spoiler than not spoiler if you're not sure. And Astrella spoilered so I spoilered my reply. *shrugs* So...

I don't mean it's a comedy or supposed to be a comedic moment in The Crying Game, I was generalising to other movies.

I see what you mean, and I haven't seen the movie myself so I'm no expert. I just think it doesn't take that much thought to see that maybe it would be unnecessarily hurtful to trans people and not actually very important to the plot. From a plot point of view, what's the difference between the guy getting shocked and maybe upset and stopping the sexual encounter, and getting shocked and maybe upset and vomiting and stopping the sexual encounter?
Abstracting this thought, do artists have a responsibility to be unoffensive?

Yeah, I don't like it. I'm fine with people who want to play with genderbending doing that, if that's what they're into, but when the be-all and end-all is "Look! A man in women's clothing! It's funny because women's clothing is just for women, and when a man wears it, it's wrong!" it's all kind of icky; transphobic and misogynistic, usually.
"All the greats have done it!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb1WUVAtseU)

This sounds like I need to see this movie.
It's pretty amazing. I've been devouring Lynch's work in the past month or so, and it's my second favorite so far, after The Elephant Man.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Buffalo Bill wanted a sex change but was refused for psychological reasons, and Hannibal says at one point that he's not a "real transsexual," which a lot of people take as dismissive.


Basically; this article (http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/film-quotations.html) has the relevant quotes. It's not just calling him not a 'real transsexual', it's a whole bunch of nonsense about drawing houses and all that. Not to mention there isn't really a thing like a 'real transsexual'.

I see it more as Hannibal having the prejudices and hatred, not the movie. I guess I can see others coming to that conclusion, but I just don't think that way.

As for the crossdressing, what I find funny isn't the act itself, but the situations that can arise because of it. And the reason you don't see too many females cross dressing in movies is simply because society is more acceptable of women in men's clothes than men in women's clothes.

[Selpharia]

Bollocks. I can't horn brain today. If you're 50% superior along each of three axes, how much superior does that make the whole deal? Is it multiplicative? Is I just 50%? Is there a square/cube thing going on?

Careful, Keveak. Mass effect sounds fun, but then you look at your watch and you have to work in six hours an should go to sleep for a bit, but you just got tech armor and this next mission should take 15 minutes, at the most.
Actually it still sounds fun. It's not often I quit because I can't remember I I'm playing Xbox or PS3...

I'm pretty sure superiority is multiplicative, so 50% overall (because 50% on one of three axes would mean a roughly 17% in total)

I really like the idea of Mass Effect, but I'm so bad at shooters that I die on what I believe is the tutorial mission

Good luck, Zorg. I hope it goes well and that your dad comes to accept you as you are (Although having emergency services on speed dial might not be a bad idea, I know I will when I talk to my mother)


The list of transphobic myths (that's the first one, there's more articles about others) on Questioning Transphobia or Natalie Reed's 13 Myths and Misconceptions about Trans Women might be useful links to give to people you're coming out to. (Depends of course on how you want to do it yourself.)

These are really useful. *Saved*

I love this thread, it's full of cool froods who know where their towels are.

~Laura

[Heliomance]

Bollocks. I can't horn brain today. If you're 50% superior along each of three axes, how much superior does that make the whole deal? Is it multiplicative? Is I just 50%? Is there a square/cube thing going on?


I'll do it with size rather than superiority, for clarity.
50% larger is 150% normal size, so 1.5x normal size. Thus, expanding an object 1.5x in each dimension makes it 1.53 times normal size, or 3.375x normal size - 237.5% larger.

[golentan]

On disappointing portrayals of trans-ness, I had forgotten how bad south park got on the subject. Some of the Mr/Mrs. Garrison jokes just make me feel dirty.

And, of course, I was stunned when the whole thing with Orson Scott Card broke. That he was so homophobic came as a real shock to me, since some of his novels had played such a pivotal role in my childhood and seemed to indicate that all people should be accepted for who they are if we're going to get anywhere. :smallsigh:

[turkishproverb]

:smallfrown: I hate this time of year.

[Serpentine]

The guy vomits. The fact that he's confronted makes him vomit. And yes I know it's handled more nuanced when the movie goes on, but vomiting is such a strong signifier of disgust. Also take in account that this was one of the first movies that actually put a trans* person into the open. It wasn't as bad as others, but I still wouldn't call it a great portrayal.

I mean, it's sorta problematic when that's the best portrayal around... :/

I'm really glad trans visibility is improving. Imagine being trans* a decade ago and stuff like that being your only examples...Yeah, throwing up is pretty extreme and silly. But my impression was that in that scene we were meant to be sympathising with HER, not him particularly, and for the rest of the movie she was depicted as strong, sexy, cynical and complex. If they'd just removed the throwing up, would it still be bad?
One of the angles we looked at in Mrs Doubtfire and Tootsie was the transformation scene and the "almost sprung" scenes. The point was to make sure the audience understood and remembered that it was "really" a man under all that make-up, that it really was just a costume, a thin vaneer that was put on and taken off and could disappear at any moment, and sorta "don't worry, he's still a Man, honest!" I also find it kinda... puzzling that these movies could look at these themes but not once, as far as I recall, have any interaction with even a transvestite, much less a transsexual...

Also, that Aardman Pirates movie plays female-in-male-clothes for laughs; "strangely curvaceous pirate", hee hee :smallbiggrin:

[supernerd]

Reminds me of the game system I started writing.
Protagonist: The Lampshading.

That sounds Awesome!

On crossdressing, I've kinda wanted to try it for some time, however I am still fully a guy on the inside, it would be fun and I'd feel pretty. Though the whole bust accentuation would be uncomfortable with my pudge. Eh, whatever. But at choir rehearsal, the top choir's theme was crossdressing and there were some guys who were HOT! :smallredface:

[Astrella]

Re: crossdressing; just adding again that I don't think there's anything wrong at all with crossdressing. Heck, clothes aren't a gendered thing so everyone should be free to wear whatever for whatever reason. It's just that with the portrayal of movies you have to take the cultural attitudes in which it is framed in account, but that counts for any portrayal of anything in media.


Abstracting this thought, do artists have a responsibility to be unoffensive?

I wouldn't necessarily put it that way; but I do think artists should be aware of the effects of their work and how it can get interpreted.


I see it more as Hannibal having the prejudices and hatred, not the movie. I guess I can see others coming to that conclusion, but I just don't think that way.

As for the crossdressing, what I find funny isn't the act itself, but the situations that can arise because of it. And the reason you don't see too many females cross dressing in movies is simply because society is more acceptable of women in men's clothes than men in women's clothes.

Hm hm, and the reason for that is transmisogyny. (http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2012/03/06/a-beginners-guide-to-trans-misogyny/) :P A 'man' acting like a woman is seen as a lowering of social standing while a 'woman' acting like a man is elevating themselves. (Off course with trans* people you get the whole "stay in your damn box" thing added to it.)


I love this thread, it's full of cool froods who know where their towels are.

~Laura

Heh, I just read a lot about this stuff so I have linkies at the ready. >.>


:smallfrown: I hate this time of year.

Oh, what's wrong? :(


Yeah, throwing up is pretty extreme and silly. But my impression was that in that scene we were meant to be sympathising with HER, not him particularly, and for the rest of the movie she was depicted as strong, sexy, cynical and complex. If they'd just removed the throwing up, would it still be bad?
One of the angles we looked at in Mrs Doubtfire and Tootsie was the transformation scene and the "almost sprung" scenes. The point was to make sure the audience understood and remembered that it was "really" a man under all that make-up, that it really was just a costume, a thin vaneer that was put on and taken off and could disappear at any moment, and sorta "don't worry, he's still a Man, honest!" I also find it kinda... puzzling that these movies could look at these themes but not once, as far as I recall, have any interaction with even a transvestite, much less a transsexual...

Also, that Aardman Pirates movie plays female-in-male-clothes for laughs; "strangely curvaceous pirate", hee hee :smallbiggrin:

It's an okayish movie, especially considering the time it was made in. I guess the general problem is (and my petpeeve) is that you basically never see characters who are just trans* and that extends to minorities in general. Yes, there's bits to explore story-wise but don't reduce people to just their minority. And especially with trans* people who mostly only get pulled up for jokes (like those hilarious jokes which seem to just consist of "she's got a penis!") or drama.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Hm hm, and the reason for that is transmisogyny. (http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2012/03/06/a-beginners-guide-to-trans-misogyny/) :P A 'man' acting like a woman is seen as a lowering of social standing while a 'woman' acting like a man is elevating themselves. (Off course with trans* people you get the whole "stay in your damn box" thing added to it.)

Yeah...I think that's kinda stupid reasoning. I see crossdressing in movies as being comedic because the character is doing something that they are not used to, and shenanigans happen because of it. I really don't care which way it goes. I mean, there was an episode of Roseanne where she put on a fake beard and hung out at the bar with the guys as another guy. I thought that was funny.

[Astrella]

Yeah...I think that's kinda stupid reasoning. I see crossdressing in movies as being comedic because the character is doing something that they are not used to, and shenanigans happen because of it. I really don't care which way it goes. I mean, there was an episode of Roseanne where she put on a fake beard and hung out at the bar with the guys as another guy. I thought that was funny.

Could you explain to me why a guy dressing as a woman is so much more prevalent in comedy than the reverse then?

[KerfuffleMach2]

Could you explain to me why a guy dressing as a woman is so much more prevalent in comedy than the reverse then?

Well, like I said, society is more acceptable of females wearing men's clothing.

The stupid reasoning part was me saying that I didn't agree with it. Sorry. Should've made that more clear.

[Astrella]

Well, like I said, society is more acceptable of females wearing men's clothing.

The stupid reasoning part was me saying that I didn't agree with it. Sorry. Should've made that more clear.

Well, yes, and that's why I said that the reason for that is transmisogyny. It is a thing. There's a reason the majority of trans* causalities are trans women of colour, because of the intersection between those three factors.

[Worira]

It also entirely ignores the existence of a long and organized campaign for societal acceptance of women engaging in traditionally masculine dressing and activity and the lack of a similar one for men engaging in traditionally feminine behaviour, in favour of "it must be because people are misogynists".

[Astrella]

So you're claiming transmisogyny isn't a thing then? There's a reason why the reverse hasn't happened. There's a reason a lot of shaming towards men is attributing them female traits.

[Rawhide]

I've never seen The Crying Game, so forgive me if I misinterpret something, but what is wrong with a movie portraying a realistic scene?

Someone throwing up because the person they were kissing is in fact not the person they thought they were kissing, particularly in this instance, is hardly extreme, it happens! There are many factors that can lead to the person throwing up, such as the shock and the anxiety of the discovery, or the fact that they were kissing someone they are not attracted to, and, it has been mentioned, that the guy had additional shock/stress loaded upon him at the same time.

If someone in a book is racist, it doesn't make the book racist, it makes the character racist. If someone in a film is sexist, it doesn't make the film sexist, it makes the character sexist.

There are films and literature out there that actively promote discrimination, but including a realistic scene that is quite likely to happen, does not make it one of them, no matter how much you wish people wouldn't react that way.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Well, yes, and that's why I said that the reason for that is transmisogyny. It is a thing. There's a reason the majority of trans* causalities are trans women of colour, because of the intersection between those three factors.

Not saying it isn't a thing. I'm just saying that I think it's stupid and I don't agree with it. That's all.

[Astrella]

Because yes, that's just what we're supposed to be happy with right. When the most positive portrayal I can hope for is people throwing up at what I am, right!

I've repeated several times already now how you can't look at stuff in isolation. That's the only stuff that get's portrayed. There is no better side in media. :/

[Worira]

So you're claiming transmisogyny isn't a thing then? There's a reason why the reverse hasn't happened. There's a reason a lot of shaming towards men is attributing them female traits.



No, I'm claiming that placing the blame society's lack of acceptance of crossdressing men solely on its shoulders is far too simplistic, and reeks of trying to fit evidence to the theory rather than vice versa.

[Toxic Emu]

If someone in a book is racist, it doesn't make the book racist, it makes the character racist. If someone in a film is sexist, it doesn't make the film sexist, it makes the character sexist.


/agree

*chucks a snowball at the mansions of Brothers Strause* :smalltongue:

[blackfox]

*snip*I think the point is that such a thing being 'plausible' does not make it okay, and, in fact, only makes it more upsetting.

[Astrella]

No, I'm claiming that placing the blame society's lack of acceptance of crossdressing men solely on its shoulders is far too simplistic, and reeks of trying to fit evidence to the theory rather than vice versa.

I know perfectly well that it's more complicated then that. I was looking at a factor. There's a lot of stuff at work there; there's oppositional sexism as well for example (the whole, everyone act ought to act like their assigned gender bit, etc... )

And that last line in your previous response was completely unneeded. And also, this isn't theory for me, this is life. This is stuff I have to worry about on a daily basis.

Edit; I expressed myself wrong there, and apologies for that. I didn't want to imply that transmisogyny was the only factor at play, but it definitely is one.

[Worira]

That things happen is not a theory. Why they happen is.

[Rawhide]

I think the point is that such a thing being 'plausible' does not make it okay, and, in fact, only makes it more upsetting.

It can be upsetting to someone reading/watching it, yes, but it doesn't mean that the film or book was written poorly. Should all instances of a derogatory swear word be removed from a book because the use of the word offends someone? Even if the author was highly anti-racist? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/jan/05/censoring-mark-twain-n-word-unacceptable)

[Astrella]

It can be upsetting to someone reading/watching it, yes, but it doesn't mean that the film or book was written poorly. Should all instances of a derogatory swear word be removed from a book because the use of the word offends someone? Even if the author was highly anti-racist? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/jan/05/censoring-mark-twain-n-word-unacceptable)

Stop reading next to my point. You can't detach a work from the context it's said in. Society is incredibly transphobic and even more so back in those days. That was the best portrayal you had as a closeted trans person back then.

And I'm really curious why you are so incredibly invested in going "but they didn't mean bad" everytime a trans* person in this thread said something hurt them. Intent isn't magic. Whether or not they intended well it still hurt, and the way you always defend it comes across as incredibly dismissive.

[Serpentine]

Should people not be offended by the inclusion of that word if it's also pretty standard practice in all media involving those themes to the expense of more positive portrayals?
It also entirely ignores the existence of a long and organized campaign for societal acceptance of women engaging in traditionally masculine dressing and activity and the lack of a similar one for men engaging in traditionally feminine behaviour, in favour of "it must be because people are misogynists".
Hm hm, and the reason for that is transmisogyny. (http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2012/03/06/a-beginners-guide-to-trans-misogyny/) :P A 'man' acting like a woman is seen as a lowering of social standing while a 'woman' acting like a man is elevating themselves. (Off course with trans* people you get the whole "stay in your damn box" thing added to it.)Conclusion: it's complicated.

Yes, there is a long and organised campaign for acceptance of women engaging in masculine dress and activity, and there's little such campaign for men in feminine. However, I think this very fact is pretty telling: it has in recent history been easier for women to strive to be "more like men" than for men to strive to be "more like women", at least partially because masculinity = good therefore women are just trying to improve themselves, whereas femininity = bad therefore men are degrading themselves if they try.
In the 80s, my mother pursued and obtained a traditionally masculine career in medicine. Around the same time, my father pursued, had to fight for, and only sort of obtained the right to the traditionally feminine paternal leave. You think that the former was relatively easy and had substantial precedent, and the latter was downright hard and the first case in New South Wales is a coincidence?

[Arachu]

Someone throwing up because the person they were kissing is in fact not the person they thought they were kissing, particularly in this instance, is hardly extreme, it happens! There are many factors that can lead to the person throwing up, such as the shock and the anxiety of the discovery, or the fact that they were kissing someone they are not attracted to, and, it has been mentioned, that the guy had additional shock/stress loaded upon him at the same time.

Does it matter if a portrayal's "realistic" or not? They could've had the character react reasonably, or even freak out, and it'd have been fine. But vomiting? Vomiting's a universal sign of revulsion. By showing this person puking over a kiss they imply it's utterly disgusting. That's what's wrong with it.


~Bianca

[turkishproverb]

Oh, what's wrong? :(

Just a bit sad.


I've always gotten depressed this time of year. It was a break from school, where I was consistently happier than home, in spite of problems I would have there. In addition, I had/have to deal with family gatherings which I've never been fond of. When I was younger, I didn't like large groups of people. So I got a headache and everyone got mad at me. Still not a huge fan of crowds, but I've found liberation at Conventions, so it's more neutral. The main difference is, I've only really got DNA in common with family.

These days it's worse though. Friends go away in December, and don't really come back for a month. That didn't used to be an issue, as I rarely make friends in the terrestrial world, but now I have a few and not seeing them as regularly kind've breaks me a bit. IN addition Relatives have gotten very...aggressive...with certain opinions, making holiday gatherings more hellish. It's like having to crawl into a closet filled with spikes, and not just because of sexuality. I have papers to turn in. In the middle of shopping, I have to sit and explain to angry cussing people why I'm not donating to the bell ringer, and instead buying gifts for Toys for Tots.I have relatives calling and pestering me to come to the family dinner, who tend to act mildly annoyed at me when I show up at the Christmas gathering. Having to answer questions to grandparents about why I didn't become a pharmacist.

About the only thing I enjoy of the Christmas/Holiday/DecemberWeenMas season is gift shopping/giving, and the occasional film/book, and moments of solitude.

[blackfox]

It can be upsetting to someone reading/watching it, yes, but it doesn't mean that the film or book was written poorly. Should all instances of a derogatory swear word be removed from a book because the use of the word offends someone? Even if the author was highly anti-racist? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/jan/05/censoring-mark-twain-n-word-unacceptable)I am the worst possible judge of what is and is not written poorly. Especially having not seen the movie. All I'm doing here is attempting to clarify people's points of view.

My 2c on whether it's okay to portray that kind of thing is, as was pointed out to me, To Kill A Mockingbird is widely regarded as fantastic. However, it very clearly portrays that lynch mobs are bad. As far as I can tell from not having seen the movie, there is no such clarification in The Crying Game.

[Rawhide]

Stop reading next to my point.

Would you mind explaining what "reading next to a point" means? Google has 0 results.


You can't detach a work from the context it's said in.

Yes, you can. If an accurate portrayal of a situation is made, it is an accurate portrayal. Nothing more, nothing less.


Society is incredibly transphobic and even more so back in those days.

Making the portrayal of the situation even more accurate.


That was the best portrayal you had as a closeted trans person back then.

And that is unfortunate, but a reflection on society, not the film.


And I'm really curious why you are so incredibly invested in going "but they didn't mean bad" everytime a trans* person in this thread said something hurt them. Intent isn't magic. Whether or not they intended well it still hurt, and the way you always defend it comes across as incredibly dismissive.

Intent is everything, and accurate portrayals are also important. I'm trying to inject a dose of realism, if you shun everyone who makes a mistake even with the best of intentions, you will have no allies. If you slam every movie/book, no matter how accurate the portrayal, then you will be living in a fantasy land. Not everyone you meet will be as accepting as you want them to be, and if all media portrays people that way, it will be completely unrealistic.

Are you going to slam Jason Alexander for making a gay joke on national television, or applaud him for realising the mistake? (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/hm187q)


Does it matter if a portrayal's "realistic" or not? They could've had the character react reasonably, or even freak out, and it'd have been fine. But vomiting? Vomiting's a universal sign of revulsion. By showing this person puking over a kiss they imply it's utterly disgusting. That's what's wrong with it.

First, it's not a universal sign of revulsion, but even if it was, it is the perfect way of showing that this person is experiencing revulsion. People throw up for many reasons (not including physical conditions), including shock, anxiety, stress, etc. All of which would have been applicable in that scene.

And second, we're talking about whether the film is poorly written or not, not the whether the character in the film is disgusting or not.

[Astrella]

Intent is everything, and accurate portrayals are also important. I'm trying to inject a dose of realism, if you shun everyone who makes a mistake even with the best of intentions, you will have no allies. If you slam every movie/book, no matter how accurate the portrayal, then you will be living in a fantasy land.

Are you going to slam Jason Alexander for making a gay joke on national television, or applaud him for realising the mistake? (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/hm187q)

A good ally listens to criticism. I'm not shunning people or making the people behind the Crying Game out to be monsters. And if you want to talk about accurate portrayals, then why aren't there any for the cases in which people are accepting right from the start. Why are there no happy portrayals? Why are there so little portrayals of characters who's story influence isn't just them being trans*.

Edit; You're being incredibly dismissive in this thread, and are upsetting several people and have in the past in similar discussions. I ask you to investigate what you said because you are accusing people of living in a fantasy land for wanting decent portrayals.

Edit2; Sorry for the whole argument, peeps. :c

[Worira]

Conclusion: it's complicated.

Yes, there is a long and organised campaign for acceptance of women engaging in masculine dress and activity, and there's little such campaign for men in feminine. However, I think this very fact is pretty telling: it has in recent history been easier for women to strive to be "more like men" than for men to strive to be "more like women", at least partially because masculinity = good therefore women are just trying to improve themselves, whereas femininity = bad therefore men are degrading themselves if they try.
In the 80s, my mother pursued and obtained a traditionally masculine career in medicine. Around the same time, my father pursued, had to fight for, and only sort of obtained the right to the traditionally feminine paternal leave. You think that the former was relatively easy and had substantial precedent, and the latter was downright hard and the first case in New South Wales is a coincidence?

I don't think it's a coincidence, I think it's a consequence. It becomes easier to accomplish these things with the weight of precedent behind them, and it strikes me as somewhat circular reasoning to conclude that the reason that precedent exists is that it is easier to accomplish. I think a more accurate description is that movement towards it is more desirable or likely, due in part to views on the worth of masculine and feminine activity, and in part as a side-effect of a social movement forming to address a separate, but related issue.

[Rawhide]

A good ally listens to criticism. I'm not shunning people or making the people behind the Crying Game out to be monsters. And if you want to talk about accurate portrayals, then why aren't there any for the cases in which people are accepting right from the start. Why are there no happy portrayals? Why are there so little portrayals of characters who's story influence isn't just them being trans*.

(Bolding mine.)

Yes, that is a legitimate issue indeed.


*legitimate used in the sense of adding emphasis.

[Serpentine]

I don't think it's a coincidence, I think it's a consequence. It becomes easier to accomplish these things with the weight of precedent behind them, and it strikes me as somewhat circular reasoning to conclude that the reason that precedent exists is that it is easier to accomplish. I think a more accurate description is that movement towards it is more desirable or likely, due in part to views on the worth of masculine and feminine activity, and in part as a side-effect of a social movement forming to address a separate, but related issue."...movement towards it is more desirable or likely, due in part to views on the worth of masculine and feminine activity". So... exactly what Lena was saying, then? That it's better, and nowadays easier and more socially acceptable, to be a woman striving for masculinity than a man striving for femininity because of cultural attitudes to what those mean?

[Worira]

"...movement towards it is more desirable or likely, due in part to views on the worth of masculine and feminine activity". So... exactly what Lena was saying, then? That it's better, and nowadays easier and more socially acceptable, to be a woman striving for masculinity than a man striving for femininity because of cultural attitudes to what those mean?

I think that what Astrella was saying, rather than being wrong per se, was a drastic oversimplification compounded by the authoritative manner in which she was expressing it.

Now I must sleep, because I am bad at words.

[SiuiS]

Rawhide, the point is that accuracy of portrayal doesn't matter when the issue is specifically how damaging portrayals are.

Yes, it is accurate. This has no bearing on how damaging it is. Accuracy is not legitimacy. Wanting to change something because it's hurtful to you being met with "but it's correct" is easily seen as accepting status quo for the sake of status quo.

[Serpentine]

I think that what Astrella was saying, rather than being wrong per se, was a drastic oversimplification compounded by the authoritative manner in which she was expressing it.I'd say the exact same can be said about what you were saying.

edit: For clarity, I'd say it applies to both of you. Like I said, it's complex, with lots of twists of causality and correlation.

[Arachu]

First, it's not a universal sign of revulsion, but even if it was, it is the perfect way of showing that this person is experiencing revulsion. People throw up for many reasons (not including physical conditions), including shock, anxiety, stress, etc. All of which would have been applicable in that scene.

Pointing out that people see it as a sign that someone's grossed out doesn't disprove my argument. I guess I don't know any context, though, considering I haven't seen it either.


And second, we're talking about whether the film is poorly written or not, not the whether the character in the film is disgusting or not.

I thought we were talking about whether the scene was offensive?


The guy vomits. The fact that he's confronted makes him vomit. And yes I know it's handled more nuanced when the movie goes on, but vomiting is such a strong signifier of disgust. Also take in account that this was one of the first movies that actually put a trans* person into the open. It wasn't as bad as others, but I still wouldn't call it a great portrayal.

I mean, it's sorta problematic when that's the best portrayal around... :/

I'm really glad trans visibility is improving. Imagine being trans* a decade ago and stuff like that being your only examples...

*Hugs*


Came out as trans* to a girl.

"This does explain why you are so pretty."

X3


Talking about the matrix... (http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4051)

*Dodges slut-shaming in slow motion* :smalltongue:


~Bianca

[Rawhide]

Pointing out that people see it as a sign that someone's grossed out doesn't disprove my argument. I guess I don't know any context, though, considering I haven't seen it either.

That's the point, the person was, that's the way some people would react, and that's the way the writers felt the person would react.


I thought we were talking about whether the scene was offensive?

No, the very first quote about it was (and it was said by Serpentine as a quote that someone said elsewhere): "I've also never seen silence of the lambs or the crying game or any of the other hateful movies that have been made."

I've never seen either of them, but the point is that having a character that feels or acts a certain way, doesn't make the book or film also that way.


Rawhide, the point is that accuracy of portrayal doesn't matter when the issue is specifically how damaging portrayals are.

Yes, it is accurate. This has no bearing on how damaging it is. Accuracy is not legitimacy. Wanting to change something because it's hurtful to you being met with "but it's correct" is easily seen as accepting status quo for the sake of status quo.

And the point is that this is a work of fiction that is based on reality, and the reality of the situation is that people do react that way and the authors thought that he would react that way. It would be more damaging to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist. e.g. A story that involves someone who has been abused* does not automatically mean that the story is legitimising the abuse, it means they are portraying something that actually happens.

It's also important to remember that we are not talking about a comedy here that is playing it for laughs, it's a psychological thriller.


*Or worse, but I'm trying to avoid being too graphical for people who have experienced it.

[KenderWizard]

I'm with Astrella and Serps, in these two arguments ("portrayal of trans people in media" and "why women can dress as men but men can't dress as women"). I think intent matters but a well-meaning or ignorant thing can still be hurtful and wrong, and I think it's actually pretty frigging obvious that masculine-coded things are viewed as superior to feminine-coded things.

HOWEVER, I also think that this is a support thread, not a win-the-argument-about-transmisogyny thread. Can we please tone it the hell down? Does it _matter_ if this scene in The Crying Game is "well-written" or what is the precise breakdown of cause and effect in misogynistic cultural factors? Will anyone be hurt if it is or isn't, or the thread consensus is yes or no? No, I bloody doubt it. But will people be hurt if we argue about it at the expense of supporting each other? Yes.

*hugs to turkishproverb and anyone else who needs them*

[Serpentine]

Yeah, I'm sorry the Crying Game turned into a Thing. It's something I've wondered about for a while, and I still recall it being overall very sympathetic to her and a fairly realistic (relatively speaking) depiction of her as a trans person, but my goal was to find out what the trans community opinion of it was, not to start or pursue an argument; to that end I failed pretty miserably. Sorry.

[Zorg]

So in other news I had an unexpected conversation with my daughter's mother - turns out she has a trans friend so I didn't have to explain stuff to her. She's obviously concerned of how little person will take the news too, but is generally very supportive :smallsmile:

[Mono Vertigo]

I'm not going to touch that Crying Game argument with a ten-foot-pole even though I've got a whole hemisphere of my brain itching to do just so.


:smallfrown: I hate this time of year.
Makes us two.

@Zorg: that's great! I'm pretty optimistic concerning your daughter there. :smallsmile:

[KenderWizard]

*hugs for turkishproverb and Musashi* :smallfrown:
Full disclosure: I love Christmas so frigging much like seriously wow it's amazing and even thinking about Christmas makes me really excited.

I find it really upsetting when families can't manage to be accepting for just a little while. I know it's hard and never perfect, but I really think it's important for, you know, _some_ effort to be made.


So in other news I had an unexpected conversation with my daughter's mother - turns out she has a trans friend so I didn't have to explain stuff to her. She's obviously concerned of how little person will take the news too, but is generally very supportive :smallsmile:

:smallsmile: That's brilliant!

[Heliomance]

I'm with Astrella and Serps, in these two arguments ("portrayal of trans people in media" and "why women can dress as men but men can't dress as women"). I think intent matters but a well-meaning or ignorant thing can still be hurtful and wrong, and I think it's actually pretty frigging obvious that masculine-coded things are viewed as superior to feminine-coded things.

HOWEVER, I also think that this is a support thread, not a win-the-argument-about-transmisogyny thread. Can we please tone it the hell down? Does it _matter_ if this scene in The Crying Game is "well-written" or what is the precise breakdown of cause and effect in misogynistic cultural factors? Will anyone be hurt if it is or isn't, or the thread consensus is yes or no? No, I bloody doubt it. But will people be hurt if we argue about it at the expense of supporting each other? Yes.

*hugs to turkishproverb and anyone else who needs them*

This. SO MUCH this! I don't care whether the Crying Game is offensive or not, I care that my support thread becomes hostile and filled with bickering every so often. Please, stop it.

[Mono Vertigo]

*hugs back*
Unlike most people who don't like the festive season, I'm not concerned about family reunions and such. In fact, it's been a couple years I spend the crucial evenings with friends instead, and I have a pretty good time there. The only difference between friends and family, actually, is that the former is like a party that happens to take place during holidays, and the latter consists of my mother organizing something resembling (but not being quite) a Christmas evening.
I don't like Christmas because of Christmas itself. My father died the day after Christmas and people do not give a [REDACTED] about it because it's the holidays, and unfortunate events such as this one just make it awkward, especially when they've already reached their quota of generosity. It's a terrible, shallow holiday. I don't even want or expect gifts, I just want people to leave me the hell alone when I want to and not even dare thinking about instilling me with the holiday spirit. These people don't actually care that much about helping others, especially once the mandatory day is past (and during that day, god forbid you don't look happy enough, because just who is unhappy on Christmas?!). Remember the 2004 tsunami? Though [REDACTED], happened right after Christmas too, and we only remember it when yet another movie comes out, narrating the pain and suffering of the white tourists who survived it. And heck, it's not just the others, I'm selfish, the difference is that I'm not being hypocritical about it.
There's a lot I could say on this subject, but this is not the time or place for this. If you know Dino Buzzati, he wrote a short story on Christmas that expresses perfectly how it makes me feel. In fact, he wrote a bunch of stories I can relate to, and I suggest you guys take a look.

Not that a Jew who doesn't celebrate Christmas is that unusual anyway, even if they're not religious. What's stranger is that I'm not planning to eat Chinese.

So yeah, I'm a grumpy one. I respect everyone's right to like and celebrate Christmas, but if anyone pushes it on me, or worse, tell me to cheer up, I swear someone's going to regret it, and it's not gonna be me.



EDIT: I realize I might come up as really aggressive here and it's not my intention, so let me correct it.
Kender, I'm glad you're looking forward to it, and I wish you a great amount of fun! That's valid for everyone else who's looking toward Christmas, of course.

[Astrella]

So in other news I had an unexpected conversation with my daughter's mother - turns out she has a trans friend so I didn't have to explain stuff to her. She's obviously concerned of how little person will take the news too, but is generally very supportive :smallsmile:

Eeeeh! That's awesome news! I'm really happy for you, Zorg! :smallsmile:


This. SO MUCH this! I don't care whether the Crying Game is offensive or not, I care that my support thread becomes hostile and filled with bickering every so often. Please, stop it.

I'm sorry for letting it draw out so much. I should've been more aware of what direction it was going.

-----

Also does anyone here still follow Rain? The latest page is sorta alarming.

[Rawhide]

KenderWizard: I agree, which is why I step in. Unfortunately, all too often, those that have been hurt by society push too far back due to an emotional reaction. I, like SMEE, dislike it when a thread about inclusion becomes a thread about exclusion or misplaced anger.


My concluding thoughts on media, to hopefully offer better clarity of the position I was presenting:
If the only major work involving a particular issue portrays it in an accurate, but potentially hurtful way, then that reflects poorly on society, not the individual work.
You cannot ask for no such portrayals, to do so would be unrealistic (in the sense that the works reflect what is real, and they would no longer be presenting what is real).
You definitely can hope and ask for more portrayals in ways that are more positive. In fact, you should be.

[Absol197]

So in other news I had an unexpected conversation with my daughter's mother - turns out she has a trans friend so I didn't have to explain stuff to her. She's obviously concerned of how little person will take the news too, but is generally very supportive :smallsmile:

Oh, wow! That's such great news!

*hugs Zorg!*


~Phoenix~

[Lentrax]

So in other news I had an unexpected conversation with my daughter's mother - turns out she has a trans friend so I didn't have to explain stuff to her. She's obviously concerned of how little person will take the news too, but is generally very supportive :smallsmile:

That is fantastic news my creepy, Santa hat wearing Asari goddess.

I do hope that everything goes well for you when it is time to explain it to the little one.

*hugs*

[Astrella]

This is a pretty amusing video: I don't really hate bigots. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYgq-SnWErU)

[noparlpf]

I'm with Astrella and Serps, in these two arguments ("portrayal of trans people in media" and "why women can dress as men but men can't dress as women"). I think intent matters but a well-meaning or ignorant thing can still be hurtful and wrong, and I think it's actually pretty frigging obvious that masculine-coded things are viewed as superior to feminine-coded things.

HOWEVER, I also think that this is a support thread, not a win-the-argument-about-transmisogyny thread. Can we please tone it the hell down? Does it _matter_ if this scene in The Crying Game is "well-written" or what is the precise breakdown of cause and effect in misogynistic cultural factors? Will anyone be hurt if it is or isn't, or the thread consensus is yes or no? No, I bloody doubt it. But will people be hurt if we argue about it at the expense of supporting each other? Yes.

*hugs to turkishproverb and anyone else who needs them*

Thanks. I wasn't sure how to say that.


So in other news I had an unexpected conversation with my daughter's mother - turns out she has a trans friend so I didn't have to explain stuff to her. She's obviously concerned of how little person will take the news too, but is generally very supportive :smallsmile:

Oh hey. That's excellent. Congrats.


*hugs for turkishproverb and Musashi* :smallfrown:
Full disclosure: I love Christmas so frigging much like seriously wow it's amazing and even thinking about Christmas makes me really excited.

I like Christmas so much that sometimes I just have one for fun. I.e. I'm Jewish and anytime I get Chinese and watch a movie it's Christmas. :smalltongue:
For a non-Christian, I actually don't mind the holiday itself much, but the massive capitalistic consumerist hype over it for the full month beforehand is annoying, and it really bothers me that the assumption that everybody is Christian/celebrates Christmas is so widespread. It bugs me that Christmas makes it "the holiday season" even though not everybody has a major holiday around now. And bloody Christmas specials for shows, agh.
(Edit: Maybe not talking much about Christmas would be a good thing because it might dip too far into religion.)


*hugs back*
Unlike most people who don't like the festive season, I'm not concerned about family reunions and such. In fact, it's been a couple years I spend the crucial evenings with friends instead, and I have a pretty good time there. The only difference between friends and family, actually, is that the former is like a party that happens to take place during holidays, and the latter consists of my mother organizing something resembling (but not being quite) a Christmas evening.
I don't like Christmas because of Christmas itself. My father died the day after Christmas and people do not give a [REDACTED] about it because it's the holidays, and unfortunate events such as this one just make it awkward, especially when they've already reached their quota of generosity. It's a terrible, shallow holiday. I don't even want or expect gifts, I just want people to leave me the hell alone when I want to and not even dare thinking about instilling me with the holiday spirit. These people don't actually care that much about helping others, especially once the mandatory day is past (and during that day, god forbid you don't look happy enough, because just who is unhappy on Christmas?!). Remember the 2004 tsunami? Though [REDACTED], happened right after Christmas too, and we only remember it when yet another movie comes out, narrating the pain and suffering of the white tourists who survived it. And heck, it's not just the others, I'm selfish, the difference is that I'm not being hypocritical about it.
There's a lot I could say on this subject, but this is not the time or place for this. If you know Dino Buzzati, he wrote a short story on Christmas that expresses perfectly how it makes me feel. In fact, he wrote a bunch of stories I can relate to, and I suggest you guys take a look.

Not that a Jew who doesn't celebrate Christmas is that unusual anyway, even if they're not religious. What's stranger is that I'm not planning to eat Chinese.

So yeah, I'm a grumpy one. I respect everyone's right to like and celebrate Christmas, but if anyone pushes it on me, or worse, tell me to cheer up, I swear someone's going to regret it, and it's not gonna be me.


EDIT: I realize I might come up as really aggressive here and it's not my intention, so let me correct it.
Kender, I'm glad you're looking forward to it, and I wish you a great amount of fun! That's valid for everyone else who's looking toward Christmas, of course.

Oh wow. Yeah, I can see why you might not like the season all that much. I'm sorry. I can relate to most of that, too.


Also does anyone here still follow Rain? The latest page is sorta alarming.

Yeah, this whole arc has been very suspenseful and worrisome.



Nasty news story. Triggers: Rape and rape culture and victim-blaming.
So this morning I happened upon the story of a woman and some other rape/molestation victims who are now pressing charges against their former middle school teacher, and the defense...well, read for yourself (http://www.alternet.org/12-year-old-rape-victim-called-negligent-and-careless-school-district-legal-papers).

[Astrella]

*hugs back*
Unlike most people who don't like the festive season, I'm not concerned about family reunions and such. In fact, it's been a couple years I spend the crucial evenings with friends instead, and I have a pretty good time there. The only difference between friends and family, actually, is that the former is like a party that happens to take place during holidays, and the latter consists of my mother organizing something resembling (but not being quite) a Christmas evening.
I don't like Christmas because of Christmas itself. My father died the day after Christmas and people do not give a [REDACTED] about it because it's the holidays, and unfortunate events such as this one just make it awkward, especially when they've already reached their quota of generosity. It's a terrible, shallow holiday. I don't even want or expect gifts, I just want people to leave me the hell alone when I want to and not even dare thinking about instilling me with the holiday spirit. These people don't actually care that much about helping others, especially once the mandatory day is past (and during that day, god forbid you don't look happy enough, because just who is unhappy on Christmas?!). Remember the 2004 tsunami? Though [REDACTED], happened right after Christmas too, and we only remember it when yet another movie comes out, narrating the pain and suffering of the white tourists who survived it. And heck, it's not just the others, I'm selfish, the difference is that I'm not being hypocritical about it.
There's a lot I could say on this subject, but this is not the time or place for this. If you know Dino Buzzati, he wrote a short story on Christmas that expresses perfectly how it makes me feel. In fact, he wrote a bunch of stories I can relate to, and I suggest you guys take a look.

Not that a Jew who doesn't celebrate Christmas is that unusual anyway, even if they're not religious. What's stranger is that I'm not planning to eat Chinese.

So yeah, I'm a grumpy one. I respect everyone's right to like and celebrate Christmas, but if anyone pushes it on me, or worse, tell me to cheer up, I swear someone's going to regret it, and it's not gonna be me.


*sympathies*
That really sucks, Musashi. :/


Yeah, this whole arc has been very suspenseful and worrisome.

I know! Also last page was really adorable (spoilers for those who haven't read the comic yet):
I wasn't a huge fan of Rudy x Rain initially, but him being so awesome for her is really turning my opinions around.


Nasty news story. Triggers: Rape and rape culture and victim-blaming.
So this morning I happened upon the story of a woman and some other rape/molestation victims who are now pressing charges against their former middle school teacher, and the defense...well, read for yourself (http://www.alternet.org/12-year-old-rape-victim-called-negligent-and-careless-school-district-legal-papers).

Ugh... just the places people are willing to go to excuse stuff like that.... :smallfrown:

[noparlpf]

I know! Also last page was really adorable (spoilers for those who haven't read the comic yet):
I wasn't a huge fan of Rudy x Rain initially, but him being so awesome for her is really turning my opinions around.

Yeah,
I was kind of leery of that pairing at first due to its possible implications, but I doubt the author's doing anything like that with it. Except maybe for drama eventually? I dunno.


Ugh... just the places people are willing to go to excuse stuff like that.... :smallfrown:

They said something like "to not try every possible avenue would be failing as defense lawyers" or something. BULL. ****.

[Lentrax]

They said something like "to not try every possible avenue would be failing as defense lawyers" or something. BULL. ****.

Just think, there are people out there that really actually believe that.

Anyways, concerning holidays, I stock shelves at National Huge Retail Store. So mu opinion about the holidays varies on a semi-nightly basis from 'Yay! Presents!' to 'When will it be over?'

[KerfuffleMach2]

So in other news I had an unexpected conversation with my daughter's mother - turns out she has a trans friend so I didn't have to explain stuff to her. She's obviously concerned of how little person will take the news too, but is generally very supportive :smallsmile:

Yay for a step in the right direction!

Hey, maybe she could be present when you tell your father? Might help at least a little.

[Mina Kobold]

Careful, Keveak. Mass effect sounds fun, but then you look at your watch and you have to work in six hours an should go to sleep for a bit, but you just got tech armor and this next mission should take 15 minutes, at the most.
Actually it still sounds fun. It's not often I quit because I can't remember I I'm playing Xbox or PS3...

I would almost hope that. I have just now opened one of four games I have had since my last birthday, which I have been afraid of playing because I am nervous about wasting as much as a minute not doing something related to school or art practice. ^_^'

Getting caught up in video games might be a terrible thing to do now, as I have a large project and the last six months of your pre-University education to finish, though. Eep. ._.


So in other news I had an unexpected conversation with my daughter's mother - turns out she has a trans friend so I didn't have to explain stuff to her. She's obviously concerned of how little person will take the news too, but is generally very supportive :smallsmile:

Yay! That is amazing news. :smallsmile:

Hope it continues to go well, it seems like you have already been proven to have anticipated a too negative response, so there is plenty hope to have. ^_^


*hugs back*
Unlike most people who don't like the festive season, I'm not concerned about family reunions and such. In fact, it's been a couple years I spend the crucial evenings with friends instead, and I have a pretty good time there. The only difference between friends and family, actually, is that the former is like a party that happens to take place during holidays, and the latter consists of my mother organizing something resembling (but not being quite) a Christmas evening.
I don't like Christmas because of Christmas itself. My father died the day after Christmas and people do not give a [REDACTED] about it because it's the holidays, and unfortunate events such as this one just make it awkward, especially when they've already reached their quota of generosity. It's a terrible, shallow holiday. I don't even want or expect gifts, I just want people to leave me the hell alone when I want to and not even dare thinking about instilling me with the holiday spirit. These people don't actually care that much about helping others, especially once the mandatory day is past (and during that day, god forbid you don't look happy enough, because just who is unhappy on Christmas?!). Remember the 2004 tsunami? Though [REDACTED], happened right after Christmas too, and we only remember it when yet another movie comes out, narrating the pain and suffering of the white tourists who survived it. And heck, it's not just the others, I'm selfish, the difference is that I'm not being hypocritical about it.
There's a lot I could say on this subject, but this is not the time or place for this. If you know Dino Buzzati, he wrote a short story on Christmas that expresses perfectly how it makes me feel. In fact, he wrote a bunch of stories I can relate to, and I suggest you guys take a look.

Not that a Jew who doesn't celebrate Christmas is that unusual anyway, even if they're not religious. What's stranger is that I'm not planning to eat Chinese.

So yeah, I'm a grumpy one. I respect everyone's right to like and celebrate Christmas, but if anyone pushes it on me, or worse, tell me to cheer up, I swear someone's going to regret it, and it's not gonna be me.



EDIT: I realize I might come up as really aggressive here and it's not my intention, so let me correct it.
Kender, I'm glad you're looking forward to it, and I wish you a great amount of fun! That's valid for everyone else who's looking toward Christmas, of course.

*Hug/cookies*

That sounds terrible. Losing someone that close is always one of the worst thing to experience, but for people to act as if you are terrible for not being happy at that time of year? That is terrifying. ;_;

I personalise like the gift-giving and cuisine of the local solstice traditions, as well as the winter scenery itself, but it does seem to get pushed a lot on people who do not like it. I do not mind the capitalism, but visually shouting at people that is is Christmas is plainly rude and mean. Particularly, I hear, when it is tied to an ideal or religious idea that is expected to be fulfilled by everybody and sold as "giving". Creepy. >_<


PS: While I am not going to touch the current discussion beyond saying that I agree mostly with Astrella and Serps, I would like to ask about another representation problem. Upon researching fighting games, as I am considering trying out some, I noticed that the genre has a serious problem with sexism. Since I have little experience with the genre, does anyone know of good series or games in it that are more feminist (or LGBTA-friendly, not-culturally-stereotyping and so on)? :smallsmile:

[Heliomance]

They said something like "to not try every possible avenue would be failing as defense lawyers" or something. BULL. ****.

Sadly, from my understanding that's actually true. No matter how reprehensible or clearly guilty the defendant is, the defence lawyers have to come up with some means of defence. Doesn't matter if they hate the guy and everything he stands for, their job requires that they defend him any way they can think of.

[Absol197]

Ugh...I've been having a pretty lousy morning.

A lot of the links that have been going around have been getting me thinking. It actually started with that Matrix-Patriarchy comic, and then when I read Natalie's blog about the biggest trans myths (exact names escape me at the moment), it all sort of came together.

I used to be really wrapped up in that way of thinking, and it almost...If it hadn't been for this thread, and constantly seeing it popping up on the forum and getting curious, something really bad might have happened in my future.

I used to believe in the whole, "You're really a man," thing. Even though I wanted to be a woman so bad it hurt sometimes, I couldn't think of it any other way than biology. The first time I looked up SRS (when I was 13 or so), I remember I was disappointed that it couldn't allow you to get pregnant afterwards, and I decided it "wasn't real." When a physics teacher I had in college a few years ago began a class trying to be as inclusive as possible, and said he would call people by the pronoun of their choice, I can remember thinking that it was stupid, because even though I wanted to be a girl, "I [was a] boy, so I have to be called he." The onyl way for me to get what I wanted and for it to be real was a supernatural transformation, which was of course impossible, so I sank deeper and deeper into fantasizing about how that could be possible, to the exclusion of living my life. I'm surprised I actually graduated from school, my grades slipped so much in my last couple years...

I just can't stop thinking about how freaking close I came to missing out on something that has made me happier than I've ever been (yes, I'm aware of the irony about saying I'm happy when I'm complaiing about being depressed-ish). It's quite possible that you guys all saved me. I can never thank you enough for that!

Sorry for the depressing rant (spoilered for those who don't care to read it), but it's been hanging over my thoughts recently, and I needed to get it out.

You're all the greatestest :smallsmile: . I'm going to go work on our Werewolf game in order to think about something else, now...


~Phoenix~
And Lena, even though it's been your links that led to thins, don't feel bad, please. I enjoy reading the things you link, because they help me understand better. It'll pass, and I'll be better off for it :) .
EDIT: And wow, I did it again! I got post #197 (my previous post, not this one)! I don't plan it that way, I swear it just happens >_< !

[Lentrax]

Aww, Phee. That's so sad... *hug*

I may not have experienced what you are talking about, but I do know what you mean. I got so wrapped up in how i wished for one way of living, that I almost missed what has become one of my truly defining moments.

But I am going to stop before I start my own depressing rant, and just say that if you need anything, we are all here for you.

[Serpentine]

PS: While I am not going to touch the current discussion beyond saying that I agree mostly with Astrella and Serps, I would like to ask about another representation problem. Upon researching fighting games, as I am considering trying out some, I noticed that the genre has a serious problem with sexism. Since I have little experience with the genre, does anyone know of good series or games in it that are more feminist (or LGBTA-friendly, not-culturally-stereotyping and so on)? :smallsmile:I think... Street Fighter, and maybe Mortal Kombat, at least had pretty cool female characters? Huge boobs, and in at least one case grotesquely massive thighs, but a decent number of female butt-kicking characters. I also know there's some game that has a transwoman character, but all I know about it is what's shown in Manly Guys Doing Manly Things.

[Kindablue]

Sorry if I contributed to anyone's funk at all! I guess that conversation did drag on a bit too long.

[noparlpf]

Sadly, from my understanding that's actually true. No matter how reprehensible or clearly guilty the defendant is, the defence lawyers have to come up with some means of defence. Doesn't matter if they hate the guy and everything he stands for, their job requires that they defend him any way they can think of.

But it's not actually a defense, it's just ridiculous.


On fighting games: Seems to me like most of the time you'll just get massive guys like three meters high and packed with muscles, next to small girls with huge breasts. Some of them are actually quite ridiculous.

[KerfuffleMach2]

I think... Street Fighter, and maybe Mortal Kombat, at least had pretty cool female characters? Huge boobs, and in at least one case grotesquely massive thighs, but a decent number of female butt-kicking characters. I also know there's some game that has a transwoman character, but all I know about it is what's shown in Manly Guys Doing Manly Things.

The transwoman character is named Poison, and she's from a Street Fighter game. I forget which one, though.

Guilty Gear has a crossdressing male character named Bridgett.

Blaz Blue has some good strong-female characters. As does Marvel vs. Capcom.

And there's always Super Smash Bros. It's all Nintendo, so you won't really find too many offensive things there.

[Astrella]

Ugh...I've been having a pretty lousy morning.

A lot of the links that have been going around have been getting me thinking. It actually started with that Matrix-Patriarchy comic, and then when I read Natalie's blog about the biggest trans myths (exact names escape me at the moment), it all sort of came together.

I used to be really wrapped up in that way of thinking, and it almost...If it hadn't been for this thread, and constantly seeing it popping up on the forum and getting curious, something really bad might have happened in my future.

I used to believe in the whole, "You're really a man," thing. Even though I wanted to be a woman so bad it hurt sometimes, I couldn't think of it any other way than biology. The first time I looked up SRS (when I was 13 or so), I remember I was disappointed that it couldn't allow you to get pregnant afterwards, and I decided it "wasn't real." When a physics teacher I had in college a few years ago began a class trying to be as inclusive as possible, and said he would call people by the pronoun of their choice, I can remember thinking that it was stupid, because even though I wanted to be a girl, "I [was a] boy, so I have to be called he." The onyl way for me to get what I wanted and for it to be real was a supernatural transformation, which was of course impossible, so I sank deeper and deeper into fantasizing about how that could be possible, to the exclusion of living my life. I'm surprised I actually graduated from school, my grades slipped so much in my last couple years...

I just can't stop thinking about how freaking close I came to missing out on something that has made me happier than I've ever been (yes, I'm aware of the irony about saying I'm happy when I'm complaiing about being depressed-ish). It's quite possible that you guys all saved me. I can never thank you enough for that!

Sorry for the depressing rant (spoilered for those who don't care to read it), but it's been hanging over my thoughts recently, and I needed to get it out.

You're all the greatestest :smallsmile: . I'm going to go work on our Werewolf game in order to think about something else, now...


~Phoenix~
And Lena, even though it's been your links that led to thins, don't feel bad, please. I enjoy reading the things you link, because they help me understand better. It'll pass, and I'll be better off for it :) .
EDIT: And wow, I did it again! I got post #197 (my previous post, not this one)! I don't plan it that way, I swear it just happens >_< !

Hm hm, I'm really glad the thread helped you out like that. I can also understand that cause meeting Faulty was basically the catalyst to me starting to figure stuff out as well, so if I hadn't met her things might have gone really differently.


I think... Street Fighter, and maybe Mortal Kombat, at least had pretty cool female characters? Huge boobs, and in at least one case grotesquely massive thighs, but a decent number of female butt-kicking characters. I also know there's some game that has a transwoman character, but all I know about it is what's shown in Manly Guys Doing Manly Things.

I think you mean Poison?

[Serpentine]

And there's always Super Smash Bros. It's all Nintendo, so you won't really find too many offensive things there....
Birdo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdo#Gender).

[KerfuffleMach2]

...
Birdo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdo#Gender).

Ah, but Birdo isn't in Smash Bros.

Not yet, anyways. Might pop up in the next one.

[Thajocoth]

...
Birdo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdo#Gender).

While initial wording of things may have been a little insulting, Birdo is now fully accepted as female despite initially being physically male. I don't know if she canonically had an operation (or a magic equivalent) or not, but this acceptance of who she is despite her initial physical characteristics, seems like a message of tolerance to me that might not have been as meaningful if she was not initially so misunderstood.

Like, the world she lives in didn't accept her at first, but she didn't try to change meet the expectations of others. Eventually the world's view changed to accept her.

[Coidzor]

On fighting games: Seems to me like most of the time you'll just get massive guys like three meters high and packed with muscles, next to small girls with huge breasts. Some of them are actually quite ridiculous.

They're like a flanderization of all of our basest urges turned to the LCD.

So I like to sort of take them as a parody of humanity writ large.

[Thajocoth]

Ah, but Birdo isn't in Smash Bros.

Not yet, anyways. Might pop up in the next one.

She appears in the Super Mario Bros 2 inspired level in Smash Melee as an obstacle that shoots eggs into the fray. She's not playable, but she does appear.

[noparlpf]

They're like a flanderization of all of our basest urges turned to the LCD.

So I like to sort of take them as a parody of humanity writ large.

Yeah, problem is parodies are supposed to be intentional.

Oh yeah, and the manga History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi uses that same sort of style I was thinking of.

[KenderWizard]

*hugs back*
Unlike most people who don't like the festive season, I'm not concerned about family reunions and such. In fact, it's been a couple years I spend the crucial evenings with friends instead, and I have a pretty good time there. The only difference between friends and family, actually, is that the former is like a party that happens to take place during holidays, and the latter consists of my mother organizing something resembling (but not being quite) a Christmas evening.
I don't like Christmas because of Christmas itself. My father died the day after Christmas and people do not give a [REDACTED] about it because it's the holidays, and unfortunate events such as this one just make it awkward, especially when they've already reached their quota of generosity. It's a terrible, shallow holiday. I don't even want or expect gifts, I just want people to leave me the hell alone when I want to and not even dare thinking about instilling me with the holiday spirit. These people don't actually care that much about helping others, especially once the mandatory day is past (and during that day, god forbid you don't look happy enough, because just who is unhappy on Christmas?!). Remember the 2004 tsunami? Though [REDACTED], happened right after Christmas too, and we only remember it when yet another movie comes out, narrating the pain and suffering of the white tourists who survived it. And heck, it's not just the others, I'm selfish, the difference is that I'm not being hypocritical about it.
There's a lot I could say on this subject, but this is not the time or place for this. If you know Dino Buzzati, he wrote a short story on Christmas that expresses perfectly how it makes me feel. In fact, he wrote a bunch of stories I can relate to, and I suggest you guys take a look.

Not that a Jew who doesn't celebrate Christmas is that unusual anyway, even if they're not religious. What's stranger is that I'm not planning to eat Chinese.

So yeah, I'm a grumpy one. I respect everyone's right to like and celebrate Christmas, but if anyone pushes it on me, or worse, tell me to cheer up, I swear someone's going to regret it, and it's not gonna be me.



EDIT: I realize I might come up as really aggressive here and it's not my intention, so let me correct it.
Kender, I'm glad you're looking forward to it, and I wish you a great amount of fun! That's valid for everyone else who's looking toward Christmas, of course.

Bleedin hell, that's no good. :smallfrown: I understand. Not completely, but I can sympathise, if not fully empathise. I'm not religious, but I was raised in a Catholic tradition. Christmas for me isn't about religion or consumerism, but about gift-giving (I often make the gifts and cards) and spending time with people, because it's when everyone has holidays. I do understand that it isn't that way for everyone, though, and thank you for your good wishes! :smallsmile:


...
Birdo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdo#Gender).

Omfg ikr wtf?! I remember reading the blurb for Birdo in something and being like "what!". It was the pronoun-swapping between languages and stuff that got me.

[KerfuffleMach2]

She appears in the Super Mario Bros 2 inspired level in Smash Melee as an obstacle that shoots eggs into the fray. She's not playable, but she does appear.

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. Been a while since I've played Melee.

[Lix Lorn]

Omfg ikr wtf?!
Honey, I love you, but this phrase hurt my brain. :smalltongue:

[Mono Vertigo]

Yeah, huh, most of this has never been said in my presence, but it sure as heck was implied in words and acts. Just wanted to clarify. Still encountered too many people who did say "but you should just celebrate Christmas!" (alone with my mother, of course, back in those years, because they were not going to invite me or help me in any way either; I should just celebrate like everybody else, not remind them on the 24th and the 25th that all suffering in the world has not vanished, and not bother them either on the 26th because life goes on).
At least my friends consider holiday celebrations consist mostly in staying up real late and, sometimes but not always, eating something appropriately-themed; no one pushing tautologies along the lines of "it's a happy holiday because it's a happy holiday and that alone should make you happy".

[Faulty]

Poison is complicated. From wikipedia: "Let's set the record straight: In North America, Poison is officially a post-op transsexual. But in Japan, she simply tucks her business away to look female." - Yoshinori Ono

Either way she's trans, but I prefer the Japanese localization backstory.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Poison is complicated. From wikipedia: "Let's set the record straight: In North America, Poison is officially a post-op transsexual. But in Japan, she simply tucks her business away to look female." - Yoshinori Ono

Either way she's trans, but I prefer the Japanese localization backstory.

I'm in North America, and I always assumed the Japanese explanation. Not sure why, but that's what my mind processed when I found out that she was trans.

[KenderWizard]

Honey, I love you, but this phrase hurt my brain. :smalltongue:

Soz, lol. :smalltongue:

I love you too! :smallredface: :smallbiggrin:

[Lix Lorn]

Soz, lol. :smalltongue:

I love you too! :smallredface: :smallbiggrin:
xD I'll forgive you. This time. ;P

Dawww. (hug!)

[KenderWizard]

xD I'll forgive you. This time. ;P

Dawww. (hug!)

((hugs!))

Btw, I know I'm like several months late to this party (but that's a big deal to me because I'm usually years if not decades late to the popular music party!) but I frigging love Call Me Maybe's music video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNaR-rxAic)! At first I was like "Sigh, much with the gendernormative white people, slim girl and cut boy!" but then it totally won me over!! :smallbiggrin: This is actually thread relevant. Ish. :smalltongue:

[monkyman640]

Btw, I know I'm like several months late to this party (but that's a big deal to me because I'm usually years if not decades late to the popular music party!) but I frigging love Call Me Maybe's music video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNaR-rxAic)! At first I was like "Sigh, much with the gendernormative white people, slim girl and cut boy!" but then it totally won me over!! :smallbiggrin: This is actually thread relevant. Ish. :smalltongue:

Totally did not see that ending coming :smallbiggrin:

[Mina Kobold]

On fighting games: Seems to me like most of the time you'll just get massive guys like three meters high and packed with muscles, next to small girls with huge breasts. Some of them are actually quite ridiculous.

That, at least, seems to be only partially true with King of Fighters. Being one of the games I had unopened, I tried it. It has some really big males, but there is quite the variety in size and muscle-mass. In fact, half the cover is dedicated to this person (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Crimson), whom I find seriously adorable. X3

The problem comes when looking at the female characters. Only four female-presenting characters in a cast of twenty-two. Of those, one is a schoolgirl dressed rather impractically for battle (but also adorable and with pink hair... conflicting! >_<), while two of the others are respectively showing a lot of cleavage or baring a pretty big amount of midriff. The last one is a pretty cool-looking noble with an equestrian style, but midriff! D:

I have no idea if the story handles that in any way, though, since I have no idea how to find the story-mode. ^_^'


The transwoman character is named Poison, and she's from a Street Fighter game. I forget which one, though.

Guilty Gear has a crossdressing male character named Bridgett.

Blaz Blue has some good strong-female characters. As does Marvel vs. Capcom.

And there's always Super Smash Bros. It's all Nintendo, so you won't really find too many offensive things there.

I forgot about Super Smash Bros., that series sounds pretty fun, if more of a thing I would want to play with friends. :smallsmile:

I actually have Blazblue: Calamity Trigger (also unopened), but I actually mostly found criticism of the fact that... Well, almost all its female characters are portrayed with a focus on fanservice. Panty-shots, skimpy outfits and what appears to be an experiment in how close to naked a character can be without actually being so. Which would be fine, if not for the male-presenting characters never doing so. Hear it is still fun, but that "women are eye-candy, men are competent and Genderqueer sounds like a regular candy" impression kind of irks me. Sorry! m(_ _)m


Poison is complicated. From wikipedia: "Let's set the record straight: In North America, Poison is officially a post-op transsexual. But in Japan, she simply tucks her business away to look female." - Yoshinori Ono

Either way she's trans, but I prefer the Japanese localization backstory.

But I am in Europe! >_<

While I think Poison is entitled to privacy, I do wonder why they would change the details between markets. Hope it is not transmisogyny, but it could be. :smalleek:

PS: Sorry for being all goofy, I am really really sleepy. @_@

[turkishproverb]

I*hugs to turkishproverb and anyone else who needs them*


*hugs for turkishproverb and Musashi* :smallfrown:
Full disclosure: I love Christmas so frigging much like seriously wow it's amazing and even thinking about Christmas makes me really excited.

I find it really upsetting when families can't manage to be accepting for just a little while. I know it's hard and never perfect, but I really think it's important for, you know, _some_ effort to be made.

*Hugs* Musashi and Kender*

I appreciate that. I like christmas, but I hate the time of year too. :smallannoyed:

[KerfuffleMach2]

Yeah, Smash Bros. is more of a group game. Although Brawl, the Wii version, has a pretty cool story mode.

With Blazblue, I'll admit that several characters do fit those stereotypes. But not all. I don't of any fanservice poses for Noel (a female character that uses a pair of giant handguns), and one of Bang's super moves leaves him in just a scarf and cloth diaper. In a badass pose, of course.

I don't think you're gonna find a fighter that leaves out all the stereotypes, but some don't have as many as others.

If you like Final Fantasy characters, look into either Final Fantasy Dissidia or Dissidia 012. Both play like a fighter, but have some RPG elements to them. Dissidia has one good and one evil character from every game up to 12, while Dissidia 012 goes up to 13 and has extra characters from about half of the games.

[Faulty]

While I think Poison is entitled to privacy, I do wonder why they would change the details between markets. Hope it is not transmisogyny, but it could be. :smalleek:

PS: Sorry for being all goofy, I am really really sleepy. @_@

I believe the change in the NA market was to make it more palatable for US players... :smallsigh:

[Coidzor]

Yeah, problem is parodies are supposed to be intentional.

Well, as I recall, Dead or Alive *started* as a parody... A fair bit of them at least seemed to be aware and playing with it to a greater or lesser extent of tongue-in-cheekiness. Last I was paying attention to such things anyway.

[SiuiS]

The problem comes when looking at the female characters. Only four female-presenting characters in a cast of twenty-two. Of those, one is a schoolgirl dressed rather impractically for battle (but also adorable and with pink hair... conflicting! >_<), while two of the others are respectively showing a lot of cleavage or baring a pretty big amount of midriff. The last one is a pretty cool-looking noble with an equestrian style, but midriff! D:

While I think Poison is entitled to privacy, I do wonder why they would change the details between markets. Hope it is not transmisogyny, but it could be. :smalleek:

PS: Sorry for being all goofy, I am really really sleepy. @_@

Psychological warfare. Angry manly man will be distracted by cleavage and midriff.

Also. No clue on poison.

Blarg. Feelin' low this last week. Unrelated, but blah.

[noparlpf]

Also posted in Relationships thread but somewhat related to this too plus now I'm worrying too so yeah.


EDIT: This one is actually related to the thread. What's the general consensus on confessing to a same-sex person who is known to be straight? The confessing party is also severely depressed and sometimes self-injurious, and seems to be in the worst throes of early puppy-love.
EDIT: Add in other friend who's driving herself to distraction worrying that she's "not good enough"/"doesn't matter enough" to "save" her friends from their unhappiness. Help?

[golentan]

Also posted in Relationships thread but somewhat related to this too plus now I'm worrying too so yeah.

Well, I think it's usually better to get your feelings out in the open. You can make it clear you don't expect them to reciprocate, but you just want them to know how you feel. It can be the basis for moving on, growing closer, and just generally being more honest and content with yourself and your friendship.

The exception would be if you have reason to believe such a confession would do permanent damage to your friendship or put you in harm's way.

[Mina Kobold]

Yeah, Smash Bros. is more of a group game. Although Brawl, the Wii version, has a pretty cool story mode.

WIIIIII! Why do you have so many fun games I cannot play! >_<


With Blazblue, I'll admit that several characters do fit those stereotypes. But not all. I don't of any fanservice poses for Noel (a female character that uses a pair of giant handguns), and one of Bang's super moves leaves him in just a scarf and cloth diaper. In a badass pose, of course.

I don't think you're gonna find a fighter that leaves out all the stereotypes, but some don't have as many as others.

These (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120810013043/blazblue/images/3/36/Noel_Vermillion_%28Chrono_Phantasma%2C_Character_S elect_Artwork%29.png) two (http://images.wikia.com/blazblue/images/7/7b/Noel_Vermillion_%28Continuum_Shift%2C_Character_Se lect_Artwork%29.png) (Last one is even a boobs-and-butt pose) look rather fanservice-y, albeit far far less than some other characters. But aside from that and the fact that Noel is wearing a skirt that should flash everybody at the slightest movement, Noel does look quite cool and demanding of authority. Certainly a character whose fanservice-elements are not a defining trait. :smallsmile:

The problem with Bang is, as you said, it is intended to be impressive. The clothing of a lot of female-presenting characters seem very much geared at appealing to the audience's libido (Thongs, half-bras and doing high-kicks that reveal your underwear, etc.), while Bang is supposed to appeal to the audience's Look-at-my-manly-manmuscles-of-manly-musclyness-ido. Which is totally a word! >_>

I do not at all think that these are stereotypes to be avoided at all, merely that they stop being so ubiquitous. If more male-presenting characters were presented as Litchi and more female characters did not, I would be just fine with it. Essentially, I am being a grumpy old feminist here, sorries. ^_^'


If you like Final Fantasy characters, look into either Final Fantasy Dissidia or Dissidia 012. Both play like a fighter, but have some RPG elements to them. Dissidia has one good and one evil character from every game up to 12, while Dissidia 012 goes up to 13 and has extra characters from about half of the games.

I have heard about that, from one of the Extra Credits recommendation videos, and I shall take your advice! ^_^

Now if only I had played more than two Final Fantasy games... Well, that can be fixed! XIII was also one of my unopened games. :3


I believe the change in the NA market was to make it more palatable for US players... :smallsigh:

That is both curious and incredibly sad to hear. ;_;


Psychological warfare. Angry manly man will be distracted by cleavage and midriff.

Also. No clue on poison.

Blarg. Feelin' low this last week. Unrelated, but blah.

But the MAN-peeps never do anything different against the midriff characters. And how would you get into highly challenging tournaments if you were distracted that easily? That way, I could get i-Ooh, this game has pretty water! *w*

*HUGS/COOKIES*

That is no fun, I hope the next one will be much better! ^_^

I personally am feeling a bit low too, but that is mostly because I keep feeling guilty about not doing schoolwork. And when I do schoolwork I feel guilty that I am not drawing. And when-Sorry, you get the point, I am neurotic. ^_^'

[Lentrax]

So... On a more positive note, well...

Hmmm. I don't seem to have one.

Anyone have some good news to share?

[Absol197]

So... On a more positive note, well...

Hmmm. I don't seem to have one.

Anyone have some good news to share?

Well, I checked out thte local GLBT Center in Denver yesterday. It's a pretty neat place.

I just had a couple issues with it. Firstly, they've apparently got a youth hangout spot downstairs, but it's only for people 21 and under. So while that seems to be the exact kind of place I'd like to check out, I'm too old by three years. Of course, they might be more lenient about that, but I didn't really ask >_< . The other bit is that all their trans stuff happens on Thursdays, which conflicts with my kung fu practice that I started up again last week.

Huh, I guess this news didn't turn out to be as good as I had initally thought. Oh, well. It's at least neutral news, possibly good-ish. Right?


~Phoenix~

[The Succubus]

Huh, I guess this news didn't turn out to be as good as I had initally thought. Oh, well. It's at least neutral news, possibly good-ish. Right?


~Phoenix~

I have no strong feelings one way or the other about neutral news.

:smallwink:

[Lentrax]

Well, I checked out thte local GLBT Center in Denver yesterday. It's a pretty neat place.

I just had a couple issues with it. Firstly, they've apparently got a youth hangout spot downstairs, but it's only for people 21 and under. So while that seems to be the exact kind of place I'd like to check out, I'm too old by three years. Of course, they might be more lenient about that, but I didn't really ask >_< . The other bit is that all their trans stuff happens on Thursdays, which conflicts with my kung fu practice that I started up again last week.

Huh, I guess this news didn't turn out to be as good as I had initally thought. Oh, well. It's at least neutral news, possibly good-ish. Right?


~Phoenix~

Well, you could always try to impress them with some kung fu.

Or by demonstaring your kung fu prowess on anyone telling you to leave.:smallwink:

Just don't do anything that would land you in jail. You're far too pretty for that.

[Socratov]

Well, I checked out thte local GLBT Center in Denver yesterday. It's a pretty neat place.

I just had a couple issues with it. Firstly, they've apparently got a youth hangout spot downstairs, but it's only for people 21 and under. So while that seems to be the exact kind of place I'd like to check out, I'm too old by three years. Of course, they might be more lenient about that, but I didn't really ask >_< . The other bit is that all their trans stuff happens on Thursdays, which conflicts with my kung fu practice that I started up again last week.

Huh, I guess this news didn't turn out to be as good as I had initally thought. Oh, well. It's at least neutral news, possibly good-ish. Right?


~Phoenix~

So... Ask! I mean it's not the most scary thing you've done (with coming out and actually transitioning and all that*) so... um... yeah... go for it!

*and by this I mean you are very courageous.

[Absol197]

Well, you could always try to impress them with some kung fu.

Or by demonstaring your kung fu prowess on anyone telling you to leave.:smallwink:

Just don't do anything that would land you in jail. You're far too pretty for that.

Wait, how would you know?
Also, I'm really not >_< .

~Phoenix~

[Lentrax]

Guessing? Or maybe my genuine opinion that everyone is pretty.

Or at least could be if they were better people on the inside as well....

Little known fact: There is no such thing as a pretty bigot.

Honestly, you would have to be a really bad person to get me to think you aren't beautiful...*

*Please note this statement is said with noone in mind, just a generalization.

[Faulty]

That is both curious and incredibly sad to hear. ;_;

I imagine that it's because it's easier to objectify a woman if she has a vagina. Less threatening than a penis. Penetration being feminizing and all that.

[Astrella]

Sympathies to Keveak and Siuis.

Re: Fighting games. Uhm, there's Scarlet Weather Rhapsody which is a Touhou fighting game, so it doesn't really fall into the usual tropes. :P I don't think it's been localized though?

-----

Remember the crossdressing thing at the university of Brussels I talked about a while back? A sociologist at my uni wrote a nice public letter calling people to attention about trans* discrimination as well in this regard.


Well, I checked out thte local GLBT Center in Denver yesterday. It's a pretty neat place.

I just had a couple issues with it. Firstly, they've apparently got a youth hangout spot downstairs, but it's only for people 21 and under. So while that seems to be the exact kind of place I'd like to check out, I'm too old by three years. Of course, they might be more lenient about that, but I didn't really ask >_< . The other bit is that all their trans stuff happens on Thursdays, which conflicts with my kung fu practice that I started up again last week.

Huh, I guess this news didn't turn out to be as good as I had initally thought. Oh, well. It's at least neutral news, possibly good-ish. Right?


~Phoenix~

You should ask, they probably don't mind too much. My trans youth group at least is pretty lenient about age. I'm sorry to hear that the trans* group conflicts with your lessons though.

[Lix Lorn]

That is both curious and incredibly sad to hear. ;_;
...honestly, I feel that you're looking at this from the wrong direction.
I'm still on 'Holy god there was a trans character in a game from like before 2000'.

[Absol197]

So... Ask! I mean it's not the most scary thing you've done (with coming out and actually transitioning and all that*) so... um... yeah... go for it!

*and by this I mean you are very courageous.

I don't really think courageous is the best way to describe it. I'm actually a fairly timid person. I liken everything else to being half a mile underwater: the pressure feels like it's going to kill you, so you swim up as fast as you can so you don't pop...
And then you get the bends afterwards D: !

Remember the crossdressing thing at the university of Brussels I talked about a while back? A sociologist at my uni wrote a nice public letter calling people to attention about trans* discrimination as well in this regard.

Hurray! That's always good news. The other part, though, is how many people pay attention to the article...


You should ask, they probably don't mind too much. My trans youth group at least is pretty lenient about age. I'm sorry to hear that the trans* group conflicts with your lessons though.

I should have asked, but I was feeling awkward. I really shouldn't have, 'cause I know no one there would judge, but I couldn't really help it. I always feel awkward when entering a new social environment. After I get used to it and get to know the way things work there I open up a lot, but in the beginning it's tough.

I'll try to find a time to go back and explore a little more.


~Phoenix~

[Lycunadari]

So in other news I had an unexpected conversation with my daughter's mother - turns out she has a trans friend so I didn't have to explain stuff to her. She's obviously concerned of how little person will take the news too, but is generally very supportive :smallsmile:

That's great! :smallsmile:

*hugs back*
Unlike most people who don't like the festive season, I'm not concerned about family reunions and such. In fact, it's been a couple years I spend the crucial evenings with friends instead, and I have a pretty good time there. The only difference between friends and family, actually, is that the former is like a party that happens to take place during holidays, and the latter consists of my mother organizing something resembling (but not being quite) a Christmas evening.
I don't like Christmas because of Christmas itself. My father died the day after Christmas and people do not give a [REDACTED] about it because it's the holidays, and unfortunate events such as this one just make it awkward, especially when they've already reached their quota of generosity. It's a terrible, shallow holiday. I don't even want or expect gifts, I just want people to leave me the hell alone when I want to and not even dare thinking about instilling me with the holiday spirit. These people don't actually care that much about helping others, especially once the mandatory day is past (and during that day, god forbid you don't look happy enough, because just who is unhappy on Christmas?!). Remember the 2004 tsunami? Though [REDACTED], happened right after Christmas too, and we only remember it when yet another movie comes out, narrating the pain and suffering of the white tourists who survived it. And heck, it's not just the others, I'm selfish, the difference is that I'm not being hypocritical about it.
There's a lot I could say on this subject, but this is not the time or place for this. If you know Dino Buzzati, he wrote a short story on Christmas that expresses perfectly how it makes me feel. In fact, he wrote a bunch of stories I can relate to, and I suggest you guys take a look.

Not that a Jew who doesn't celebrate Christmas is that unusual anyway, even if they're not religious. What's stranger is that I'm not planning to eat Chinese.

So yeah, I'm a grumpy one. I respect everyone's right to like and celebrate Christmas, but if anyone pushes it on me, or worse, tell me to cheer up, I swear someone's going to regret it, and it's not gonna be me.



EDIT: I realize I might come up as really aggressive here and it's not my intention, so let me correct it.
Kender, I'm glad you're looking forward to it, and I wish you a great amount of fun! That's valid for everyone else who's looking toward Christmas, of course.

*hugs and cookies*

Ugh...I've been having a pretty lousy morning.

A lot of the links that have been going around have been getting me thinking. It actually started with that Matrix-Patriarchy comic, and then when I read Natalie's blog about the biggest trans myths (exact names escape me at the moment), it all sort of came together.

I used to be really wrapped up in that way of thinking, and it almost...If it hadn't been for this thread, and constantly seeing it popping up on the forum and getting curious, something really bad might have happened in my future.

I used to believe in the whole, "You're really a man," thing. Even though I wanted to be a woman so bad it hurt sometimes, I couldn't think of it any other way than biology. The first time I looked up SRS (when I was 13 or so), I remember I was disappointed that it couldn't allow you to get pregnant afterwards, and I decided it "wasn't real." When a physics teacher I had in college a few years ago began a class trying to be as inclusive as possible, and said he would call people by the pronoun of their choice, I can remember thinking that it was stupid, because even though I wanted to be a girl, "I [was a] boy, so I have to be called he." The onyl way for me to get what I wanted and for it to be real was a supernatural transformation, which was of course impossible, so I sank deeper and deeper into fantasizing about how that could be possible, to the exclusion of living my life. I'm surprised I actually graduated from school, my grades slipped so much in my last couple years...

I just can't stop thinking about how freaking close I came to missing out on something that has made me happier than I've ever been (yes, I'm aware of the irony about saying I'm happy when I'm complaiing about being depressed-ish). It's quite possible that you guys all saved me. I can never thank you enough for that!

Sorry for the depressing rant (spoilered for those who don't care to read it), but it's been hanging over my thoughts recently, and I needed to get it out.

You're all the greatestest :smallsmile: . I'm going to go work on our Werewolf game in order to think about something else, now...


~Phoenix~
And Lena, even though it's been your links that led to thins, don't feel bad, please. I enjoy reading the things you link, because they help me understand better. It'll pass, and I'll be better off for it :) .
EDIT: And wow, I did it again! I got post #197 (my previous post, not this one)! I don't plan it that way, I swear it just happens >_< !

*cookies and hugs* Hope you feel better soon! And, it seems like 197 is your magic number. Is your birthday on 15th July? :smallbiggrin:



I should have asked, but I was feeling awkward. I really shouldn't have, 'cause I know no one there would judge, but I couldn't really help it. I always feel awkward when entering a new social environment. After I get used to it and get to know the way things work there I open up a lot, but in the beginning it's tough.

I'll try to find a time to go back and explore a little more.


~Phoenix~

*hugs* I know that awkardness, too. I'm sometimes so shy that I'm literally unable to speak if I'm not directly adressed. Makes it very hard to get to know people. *sigh*
But I'm sure you'll have a great time there once you get to know these people better. :smallsmile: