How do saves that items get work?

[Seer_of_Heart]

I've talked to my dm and he has been supportive of me raising rust monsters using this guide which is a mix of raw and a reasonable extension of raw. http://community.wizards.com/rumbletiger/blog/?message=WW91ciBwb3N0IGhhcyBub3cgYmVlbiBzdWJtaXR0Z WQh

But the rust monster's rust ability is confusing to me, looking up the rust monster's ability to rust items it says that there is a dc17 reflex save with a +4 circumstance bonus, is that the only thing applied and then the item has to succeed on a save. Or does the item also get a reflex save bonus/use the wielder's save bonus if there is one?

[TuggyNE]

I've talked to my dm and he has been supportive of me raising rust monsters using this guide which is a mix of raw and a reasonable extension of raw. http://community.wizards.com/rumbletiger/blog/?message=WW91ciBwb3N0IGhhcyBub3cgYmVlbiBzdWJtaXR0Z WQh

But the rust monster's rust ability is confusing to me, looking up the rust monster's ability to rust items it says that there is a dc17 reflex save with a +4 circumstance bonus, is that the only thing applied and then the item has to succeed on a save. Or does the item also get a reflex save bonus/use the wielder's save bonus if there is one?

SRD on item saving throws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#savingThrows) should help.

[RoyVG]

I Would say there are 4 situations, based on two parameters, Magic/Non-magic and Attended/Unattened

1. Under normal circumstances, non-magic, unattended items may not make a saving throw, and are considered to have failed them automatically. So if a Rust monster touches a normal longsword lying on the ground, it is destroyed.

2. When such a non-magical weapon is attended (aka you are holding it or carrying it), the character are allowed to make a reflex save for the item. If you fail it, it is still destroyed.

3. Magic weapons and equipment may always make saving throws when unattended. Their modifiers are 2+half caster level.

4. When a magic item is attended, you may make a saving throw instead of the item, if your saves are higher.

Example:
You are a level 8 fighter with 13 Dexterity, and you are attacked by a Rust monster. The monster attacks your +2 Full Plate with a melee touch attack, and hits you. Your +2 Full plate is magical and gets a saving throw. A +2 Full plate has an effective caster level of 6, so its saves are (2+ 6/2 =) 5. However, you are attending the item, so you are allowed to make the save instead of the item. You have a base save of (2 + 1 from reflex =) 3
The +2 Full Plate has a higher save, so you let the item make a save. The Full plate rolls a 6, for a total of 11, which is lower than the DC (17). The +2 Full plate is instantly destroyed.

This is how I think it works. This would be it according to the rules. It could be that the Rust Monster is the exception to these rules, but I doubt it.

EDIT: I found some additional info.

A magic item doesn’t need to make a saving throw unless it is unattended, it is specifically targeted by the effect, or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his save.

This contradicts situation 4 a bit. Basically, Magic items never make a saving throw, unless specifically targeted, or if you roll a 1 on your saves (from a random spell that targets you). But if it is targeted, you may make a save instead of it. That is a bit confusing...

Also note, Intelligent items use their own Wisdom for their Will saves.