Implications of a gaming world

[limejuicepowder]

I'm currently working on a campaign setting that is modeled after a video game, something like Wow or other MMO-type. Just to clarify, I'm not just using the plot as a model, I'm talking the rules of a gaming world - namely, plot devices left right and center, and multiple lives for at least all of the important characters.

Here's my basic idea:
-The entire world is a "game" revolving around the collection of different items. When someone collects all of the items, they win (though nobody has done it, thus no one actually knows what will happen).
-Despite the promise of riches, most people don't try to collect more than a few items; all but the very lowest are extremely hard to get, and having one can put you on the radar of dangerous people.
-Items can be found in a variety of ways; some are just hidden really well, others require tasks to be completed or other conditions to be met.
-Adventures seek two things: items on the list, and power-ups. Every body in the world starts as a generic NPC class, something like an expert (low combat ability, wide variety of skills, no abilities). Gaining experience only allows the leveling of this generic class. However, power ups allow a person to gain levels in PC classes - use a wizard power up and the character instantly gains a level in wizard. Thus, finding the correct power up is of tantamount importance to the serious adventurer.
-Death results in the loss of the last power up the character used, which can then be picked up and used by anyone. The character is then revived at the nearest spirit totem. If a character has no power ups, they suffer no loss in (violent) death. Age and disease can still cause permanent death.


I imagine this world to be in many ways like a traditional setting: most people just try to get by, providing for themselves and their family. I guess my question comes down to this: can a otherwise normal world exist in a place where death is so much less.....deathly?

[Ravens_cry]

I've heard this idea before and, frankly,if I want to play an MMO, I'll play an MMO.

[Emperor Tippy]

With the right DM and group of players it could be great fun, otherwise it would probably suck.

[Saidoro]

I think I read a book with just about this exact premise once. I don't really remember much about it besides the fact that it tried to criticize online gaming without having the foggiest idea of how it actually worked.

With the right DM and group of players it could be great fun, otherwise it would probably suck.
Isn't that true of any campaign ever?

[Emperor Tippy]

Isn't that true of any campaign ever?
Most, yes. Some things are just such inherently horribly ideas that if a person finds them fun, it is clear proof of insanity. FATAL comes to mind.

[Saidoro]

Most, yes. Some things are just such inherently horribly ideas that if a person finds them fun, it is clear proof of insanity. FATAL comes to mind.
I would argue that playing FATAL with the right DM and players would be largely synonymous with mocking a terrible game while getting drunk with friends, and as such would actually be fairly fun.

[Courier6]

I have two important questions each of which will drastically effect how most NPCs act (IMO)

- how painful is death/injury and how widespread is this knowledge?

-is there a "reset" button i.e. can NPCs kill themselves and respawn?

and some questions for my own curiosity:

-how long does it take to respawn?

-do monsters respawn?

-are immortal races/undead just immortal, unable to ever fully die?

-about the items, are there multiple sets that many people can collect at a time, or do you need every instance from every lowly adventurer?

[limejuicepowder]

I have two important questions each of which will drastically effect how most NPCs act (IMO)

- how painful is death/injury and how widespread is this knowledge?

-is there a "reset" button i.e. can NPCs kill themselves and respawn?

and some questions for my own curiosity:

-how long does it take to respawn?

-do monsters respawn?

-are immortal races/undead just immortal, unable to ever fully die?

-about the items, are there multiple sets that many people can collect at a time, or do you need every instance from every lowly adventurer?

Hmm I haven't quite worked out all of the details like these, but let's see...

Death and injury is just as painful, it's just not permanent. Respawn happens every day with the sunrise; a dead person is revived, naked, at the nearest spirit totem (a obelisk-type statue spotted around the world). It is very common knowledge. However:
- A person is only respawned if they died violently; i.e., if their hit points are brought to -10. Ability damage, level drain, death effects, etc., still cause permanent death.
- Any diseases or non-con ability damage/drain the person had before death are still present after the respawn. Hit points are fully restored, and any magical effects are gone. Spell casting is reset and an additional hour must be spent refocusing, but this can be done immediately.
So yes, NPC's can kill themselves to "heal," but it's only worth it if they are very injured, don't have a healer/doctor, and don't mind losing the rest of the day and night. And depending on present company, all of their items and personal possessions.

I hadn't considered undead, but that's a good point. I'm leaning towards them not respawning. Undead will still be extremely dangerous since they often have ways to kill that aren't hit point damage.

I think monsters have to revive to some capacity, otherwise a dedicated army could theoretically wipe them all out regardless of their strength. I also don't want the monsters to overrun the world....not sure how to handle this one. Do you have any suggestions?

There are multiples of all of the different items; the rarer ones are obviously less numerous. Each of the items also has a powerful one-time-use effect, but if used, the item disappears and must be found again.

[Telok]

Someone did a webcomic of this. Look for "Crushed: The Doomed Kitty"

Note it's a lightly NSFW furry parody comic.

[Marthinwurer]

I think I read a book with just about this exact premise once. I don't really remember much about it besides the fact that it tried to criticize online gaming without having the foggiest idea of how it actually worked.

I think its called Epic. I loved it.

[Quellian-dyrae]

First thing that comes to mind is that, logically, people are going to want to control those Spirit Totems. They actually sound like a much more significant macguffin. The items are rare, difficult to collect, and the reward for actually getting them all is unknown. But if you control a Spirit Totem, you hold the lives of people in your hands, and are able to deal with them when they are at their very weakest.

If ability damage can still kill, poison is an incredibly powerful resource. Access to it would almost certainly be incredibly tightly controlled. That might be the way to deal with monsters; actual armies who need to flat-out kill something use poison.

The caster disparity increases significantly. I'm pretty sure clerics, druids, and wizards all have ways to truly kill (poison, disease, negative levels) by the time they get fourth level spells.

Violence itself, however, is probably not going to be too serious as issue. Permanent harm through violent means, up to death, is pretty much impossible. It would probably be a minor crime, at most. Duels might be a common way of settling disputes.

Wars of conquest would be really difficult. Borders of nations would probably overlap with borders of Spirit Totems. The only way you could really win a war of conquest, aside from using true death methods (which would likely be the "nukes" of that world) would be utterly overwhelming the enemy and taking control of their totem before the next sunrise. Otherwise, they have a daily stream of reinforcements, but your troops are auto-captured when killed.

[Psyren]

Rather than make a whole setting like that, I would make it an isolated area. Say, a demiplane run by a childlike god, an insane archwizard's labyrinth, or an elaborate nethertrap created by an archfiend disguised as an benevolent nature spirit. Thus, you could easily explain why some rules are different (e.g. multiple deaths, powerups and respawns) and, unlike a true MMO, there is a clear objective, a way to definitively "win the game." (Namely, escaping.)

With a clear win condition, your players have something to strive for, and a way to end the experiment before it loses its luster. And you get a safe testing ground for your rules that you can evaluate and tweak once the players break free. And rather than experiencing MMO burnout, your players will "beat the game" while they're still excited by the idea, followed by looking forward to the sequel.

[Aliek]

I would argue that playing FATAL with the right DM and players would be largely synonymous with mocking a terrible game while getting drunk with friends, and as such would actually be fairly fun.

Quote for truth, once a couple friends of mine tried to play FATAL for the lulz. Characters should be totally rolled. One of them was allergic to wasps and dust.

...Suffice to say their first encounter was against dusty wasps.

But a bit more on topic, it could work, just as the tippyverse works too, it just isn't something for every group. It sounds fun, but the biggest problem I see is some crazy lunatic should be totally stacked on power-ups, being basically impossible to kill and able to defeat anyone with just a couple. And then claim theirs as his, ad infinitum. If there's a limit on the power-ups, and they're not a limited resource, then yeah, that could work.

[limejuicepowder]

Rather than make a whole setting like that, I would make it an isolated area. Say, a demiplane run by a childlike god, an insane archwizard's labyrinth, or an elaborate nethertrap created by an archfiend disguised as an benevolent nature spirit. Thus, you could easily explain why some rules are different (e.g. multiple deaths, powerups and respawns) and, unlike a true MMO, there is a clear objective, a way to definitively "win the game." (Namely, escaping.)

With a clear win condition, your players have something to strive for, and a way to end the experiment before it loses its luster. And you get a safe testing ground for your rules that you can evaluate and tweak once the players break free. And rather than experiencing MMO burnout, your players will "beat the game" while they're still excited by the idea, followed by looking forward to the sequel.

Truth in this; I was actually thinking of bagging the daily resurrections entirely, just cause it creates so many problems.

My original idea, way back when, was to play in a world that was run by literal game logic: platforms are always the perfect distance apart, items can always be found to bypass obstacles, and death is a temporary setback. This would obviously be a more comedic game. Filling out this idea and influenced by some manga, I added the treasure hunt and non-traditional leveling methods.

But laid out I'm thinking it won't be as cool as it sounds in my head.

Limiting it to a certain area could make it work though. Thanks!

[roguemetal]

Rather than make a whole setting like that, I would make it an isolated area. Say, a demiplane run by a childlike god, an insane archwizard's labyrinth, or an elaborate nethertrap created by an archfiend disguised as an benevolent nature spirit. Thus, you could easily explain why some rules are different (e.g. multiple deaths, powerups and respawns) and, unlike a true MMO, there is a clear objective, a way to definitively "win the game." (Namely, escaping.)
The ghostwalk setting is a pretty good example of this.

I can totally see a group of people forever trapped in a campaign-sized necropolis with no way out but with unified power and a resolved conflict. However, be careful this doesn't just turn into a McGuffin hunt... even if the items are useful, if they aren't being used for a specific purpose and therefore have an effect on plot when removed from the grasp of others it's pretty bleak. Maybe mix it up with 1950s style gang wars turned fantasy to keep an edge.

[TuggyNE]

I think I read a book with just about this exact premise once. I don't really remember much about it besides the fact that it tried to criticize online gaming without having the foggiest idea of how it actually worked.

Epic, and its sequel Saga, and I think there may have been another one? You basically just had to smile and nod your way past the MMO/VR/programming gaffes (of which there were plenty), but then there was actually a rather decent story going on.

(The premise was that a colony on another planet had turned to a single specific official MMO as their means of resolving conflicts, determining resource allocations, and so on. Unfortunately for them, it became rather dystopian, due to all kinds of stupid behavior on their collective parts over the course of a few hundred years.)


I think its called Epic. I loved it.

It was quite enjoyable despite the flaws, through a combination of good storytelling and good insights into ordinary people (though not so much people who play games, sadly).

[Saidoro]

I think its called Epic. I loved it.

Epic, and its sequel Saga, and I think there may have been another one? You basically just had to smile and nod your way past the MMO/VR/programming gaffes (of which there were plenty), but then there was actually a rather decent story going on.
(The premise was that a colony on another planet had turned to a single specific official MMO as their means of resolving conflicts, determining resource allocations, and so on. Unfortunately for them, it became rather dystopian, due to all kinds of stupid behavior on their collective parts over the course of a few hundred years.)

It was quite enjoyable despite the flaws, through a combination of good storytelling and good insights into ordinary people (though not so much people who play games, sadly).
That's the one. (Though I didn't know it had a sequel.) It really wasn't a bad book overall, I just objected to the way it is described as understanding modern gaming when the author seems to be basing his game's encounters more on 1e dnd than on warcraft or everquest or any modern game.

[dascarletm]

If you watch or read "Sword Art Online" that might give you some good inspiration. I was thinking of designing a campaign around that.