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LordofDragons24
2012-11-30, 10:46 AM
Hi,

Just looking for a relatively quick definition between two things.
What is the difference between the Intelligence vs. the Wisdom score? I'm not asking so much as what areas these two cover, but what does one mean as opposed to the other? Furthermore, what would it mean if one Character had a high Intelligence but a low Wisdom? What sort of character would that produce? And What if that character had a high Wisdom but a low Intelligence?

Feel free to use metaphors if it helps me understand. Thanks in advance! :smallbiggrin:

Shpadoinkle
2012-11-30, 10:55 AM
Intelligence tells you that tomatoes are a fruit. Wisdom tells you that they wouldn't be very good in a fruit salad.

High intelligence, low wisdom: The stereotypical "mad scientist," he's got lots of brilliant ideas, but doesn't often stop to think whether implementing them would be a good idea. Tends to be oblivious (probably because he's focused on something he finds interesting.)

High wisdom, low intelligence: The simple, down to earth, but surprisingly insightful guy. He may see something that others don't but not realize its significance. May have trouble forming and/or articulating complex thoughts, and might resort to simple analogies to explain himself or what he's thinking.

LordofDragons24
2012-11-30, 11:11 AM
Intelligence tells you that tomatoes are a fruit. Wisdom tells you that they wouldn't be very good in a fruit salad.


I like this one. Thanks for the help!! :smallbiggrin:

(cookies all around)

Yora
2012-11-30, 11:12 AM
Intelligence is analysis of facts.
Wisdom is having the right hunch when you can't point your finger on what doesn't feel quite right.

obryn
2012-11-30, 11:18 AM
In D&D? You need one if you're a wizard. You need the other one if you're a cleric. :smallsmile:

D&D's mental stats are pretty well jacked up. Well, Intelligence is kind of okay, but it's both cleverness and education. Wisdom has been ill-defined since the beginning; nowadays it contains common sense, keenness of perception, alertness, willpower, and piety, even though that's a huge grab bag. Charisma nowadays involves glibness of tongue, personality, leadership ability, innate magical potential, and sometimes appearance.

-O

Cikomyr
2012-11-30, 11:18 AM
High Int, low Wis = Elan

High Wis, Low Int = Forest Gump

Spiryt
2012-11-30, 11:42 AM
High Int, low Wis = Elan

High Wis, Low Int = Forest Gump

Actually, Elan's Intelligence is pretty much outright stated to be at very best average in OotS.

Generally, as mentioned above, 'Wisdom' in D&D is pretty much all that's supposed to connect intelligent brain with actual reality.


Any creature that can perceive its environment in any fashion has at least 1 point of Wisdom. Anything with no Wisdom score is an object, not a creature.

hamlet
2012-11-30, 11:49 AM
To crib notes from Jurassic Park: Intelligence is figuring out if you could do it, Wisdom is figuring out if you should do it.

Saph
2012-11-30, 11:50 AM
Actually, Elan's Intelligence is pretty much outright stated to be at very best average in OotS.

'Average' is being generous – Elan's dumber than a sack of hammers. Better examples would be Vaarsuvius (very high Int, mediocre Wis) or Belkar (above-average Int, especially for figuring out ways to kill things, abysmal Wis).

A computer-y way of defining the mental stats that I always liked is:

• Wisdom is your download speed
• Intelligence is your processing power
• Charisma is your upload speed

Amphetryon
2012-11-30, 12:08 PM
An Intelligent person knows the dangers of prolonged tobacco use, as explained by the media and medical community.

A Wise person doesn't smoke, or has the willpower to quit if she did.

Greylond
2012-11-30, 12:17 PM
An Intelligent person knows the dangers of prolonged tobacco use, as explained by the media and medical community.

A Wise person doesn't smoke, or has the willpower to quit if she did.

Yea, or to quote Gary Gygax, "A person with a high INT but a low WIS knows that smoking is bad for you, but doesn't quit..."

Karoht
2012-11-30, 12:58 PM
Problem Solving Via Stats
Strength: Break it, Lift it, Shove it, Hold it, Force it, etc.
Dexterity: Dodge it, get around it, move away.
Constitution: Withstand it. Outlast it.
Intelligence: Figure out a solution via raw processing power of the mind. Develop new logic to solve the problem.
Wisdom: Remember a similar puzzle, remember an old passage or metaphor or established piece of logic which applies to the situation.
Charisma: Luck, intuition, or just 'feel' a solution. Solves problems typically with rule of funny or even rule of awesome. Kind of a backwards form of common sense.

Jay R
2012-11-30, 01:11 PM
Problem Solving Via Stats
Strength: Break it, Lift it, Shove it, Hold it, Force it, etc.
Dexterity: Dodge it, get around it, move away.
Constitution: Withstand it. Outlast it.
Intelligence: Figure out a solution via raw processing power of the mind. Develop new logic to solve the problem.
Wisdom: Remember a similar puzzle, remember an old passage or metaphor or established piece of logic which applies to the situation.
Charisma: Luck, intuition, or just 'feel' a solution. Solves problems typically with rule of funny or even rule of awesome. Kind of a backwards form of common sense.

Charisma: Get the rest of the party to deal with it.

some guy
2012-11-30, 01:13 PM
To crib notes from Jurassic Park: Intelligence is figuring out if you could do it, Wisdom is figuring out if you should do it.

I like that one.

I always use Intelligence = ratio / Wisdom = Intuition.

Karoht
2012-11-30, 01:13 PM
Charisma: Get the rest of the party to deal with it.I left out Bluffomancy/Diplomancy from Charisma, because I was more trying to explain how one person might use that stat to solve a problem on their own. But yes. Convincing others to do it for you is an aspect of Charisma.

Analytica
2012-11-30, 01:20 PM
Intelligence is the ability to understand details and make accurate deductions or predictions from them. It would also be how many things you can keep track of at once, i.e. working memory - high Intelligence might let you multitask mentally or perform vast simulations of potential outcomes in your head. Wisdom is the ability to see wholes and keep things in perspective, cutting to the important parts when needed. I would go so far as to say that it is this, rather than willpower, which makes Wisdom contribute to Will saves: it represents your ability to avoid tunnel vision or getting stuck on particular points or stimuli or hangups. Good or evil, high Wisdom means you understand what your actions mean and why you have chosen to commit them, so you are less easily swayed by others.

Seharvepernfan
2012-11-30, 06:41 PM
Intelligence is the ability to understand details and make accurate deductions or predictions from them. It would also be how many things you can keep track of at once, i.e. working memory - high Intelligence might let you multitask mentally or perform vast simulations of potential outcomes in your head. Wisdom is the ability to see wholes and keep things in perspective, cutting to the important parts when needed. I would go so far as to say that it is this, rather than willpower, which makes Wisdom contribute to Will saves: it represents your ability to avoid tunnel vision or getting stuck on particular points or stimuli or hangups. Good or evil, high Wisdom means you understand what your actions mean and why you have chosen to commit them, so you are less easily swayed by others.

+1

(Saved)

LordofDragons24
2012-11-30, 08:06 PM
Thanks for all the help folks in explaining the difference twixt the two! :)

Found this one particularly useful, although the comment about tomatoes was pretty good too.


Problem Solving Via Stats
Strength: Break it, Lift it, Shove it, Hold it, Force it, etc.
Dexterity: Dodge it, get around it, move away.
Constitution: Withstand it. Outlast it.
Intelligence: Figure out a solution via raw processing power of the mind. Develop new logic to solve the problem.
Wisdom: Remember a similar puzzle, remember an old passage or metaphor or established piece of logic which applies to the situation.
Charisma: Luck, intuition, or just 'feel' a solution. Solves problems typically with rule of funny or even rule of awesome. Kind of a backwards form of common sense.

Y'all are alright in my book :smallwink:

LordofDragons24
2012-11-30, 08:09 PM
To crib notes from Jurassic Park: Intelligence is figuring out if you could do it, Wisdom is figuring out if you should do it.

Also very nice.

(Cookies all around. Chocolate chip. They're delicious, I swear.)

jedipilot24
2012-11-30, 08:17 PM
High Int, low Wis = Elan

High Wis, Low Int = Forest Gump

Actually, a better example for High Int, low Wis would be V--particularly Darth V. V does get better afterward.

Dienekes
2012-12-01, 12:06 AM
If you really want a good example of what the difference is between Int and Wis just look at Wile E. Coyote "Super genius!" and the Roadrunner.

Wile E. Coyote is a high Int, low Wis character. He can build a rocket out of spare parts, come up with complex plans, multi-layered plans to achieve his goal.

The Roadrunner is high Wis, average Int. He can't do any of the above, but he understands that when you are moving at such an incredibly fast speed it's best to look forward so as to not run into any random rocks or off any nearby cliffs. That's just common sense really.

Tengu_temp
2012-12-01, 11:42 AM
The roadrunner is dumb like a sack of bricks, both on the intelligence and wisdom departments - how often he falls for very obvious traps is proof of that. Because come on, he's a freakin' bird. A bird that has the unfair ability to subconsciously bend the laws of physics to his will.

scurv
2012-12-01, 12:27 PM
Wisdom I tend to view as an introspection and forethought based. And to a fair extent empathy based. In effect I will go out of my way to give the players hints about what I am about to do if they roll a good check based on the action they are debating doing. But the how-to do it is still mostly based on int (Although I may take wisdom mod and experiences into account on a case by case basis) But with this stat I might drop a clue as to a good idea

Int...This stat I tend to view as more trade related. If the player goes out of their way to ask the question if they think the action they are debating is a good Idea, I will often let them use an Int roll rather then a wisdom roll if it is the higher stat. But that being said the player needs to be the one to ask the question. And The response I give is not as well endowed with insight, Rather I let them know that if it is a badish idea how it is a badish idea, but I let them to puzzle out a good idea.

But I do have a saying of my own. I earned my common sense, And I have the scars to prove it.

Jay R
2012-12-01, 06:46 PM
The roadrunner is dumb like a sack of bricks, both on the intelligence and wisdom departments - how often he falls for very obvious traps is proof of that.

Ummm... never? Not once has he "fallen" for a trap. He goes up to the trap, eats the bird seed, and leaves, completely unscathed.


Because come on, he's a freakin' bird. A bird that has the unfair ability to subconsciously bend the laws of physics to his will.

He doesn't bend the laws of nature; he is part of it. He isn't really a character; he's just part of the universe that is inherently against Wile E. Coyote.

Winter_Wolf
2012-12-02, 06:08 PM
Intelligence gives us owlbears.
Wisdom gives us the sense to know why it's a bad idea.

Morty
2012-12-02, 06:11 PM
I like to sum it up with this demotivator:
http://demotivationalpost.com/demotivators/12740809330/intelligence-vs-wisdom.jpg

blackseven
2012-12-02, 08:30 PM
I think the difference has been covered well, better than I could state, so I'd like to throw in a bit of a counter-point.

IMHO, there is a lot of overlap between Wisdom and Intelligence when it comes to "justifying" character action. I think that a fair DM should recognize when they blur together and give the PC the benefit of the doubt.


I like to sum it up with this demotivator:
http://demotivationalpost.com/demotivators/12740809330/intelligence-vs-wisdom.jpg

That is an awesome picture.

Tengu_temp
2012-12-03, 06:20 AM
Ummm... never? Not once has he "fallen" for a trap. He goes up to the trap, eats the bird seed, and leaves, completely unscathed.

Yes, and he's usually completely oblivious to the trap, which never works as it should (if it works at all) because the universe hates Wile E. Coyote. No sign of wisdom here.

Incom
2012-12-03, 08:32 AM
Can't believe nobody brought up Nale for high-Int, low-Wis.

jedipilot24
2012-12-03, 08:40 AM
yes, exactly.

Mastikator
2012-12-03, 08:46 AM
Can't believe nobody brought up Nale for high-Int, low-Wis.

People seem to have forgotten about his clever plans (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0255.html).

navar100
2012-12-03, 08:50 AM
Wile E. Coyote did actually catch the Roadrunner once. It was an 8 pm special Looney Tunes show in late 1970's or early 1980's, and this was one scene. After catching him he held up signs to "talk". He said he was chasing the Roadrunner for so long he forgot why he was chasing him. Then he let the Roadrunner go.

Jay R
2012-12-03, 11:51 AM
Wile E. Coyote did actually catch the Roadrunner once. It was an 8 pm special Looney Tunes show in late 1970's or early 1980's, and this was one scene. After catching him he held up signs to "talk". He said he was chasing the Roadrunner for so long he forgot why he was chasing him. Then he let the Roadrunner go.

This fits with Chuck Jones's description of Wile E. Coyote's character. He based the coyote on Santayana's quote, "A fanatic is one who redoubles his effort when he has forgotten his aim."

PlusSixPelican
2012-12-03, 04:00 PM
Intelligence is knowing things.
Wisdom is knowing stuff.

Many villains (Nale, for example), seemed to have dumped Wis. Sure, plans are dandy, but if you can't sit and realize that it might not be the best (or that someone else is clever enough to kick your plan's butt), you might want to invest in a Periapt of Wisdom. Which also has the added benefit of being a pearl necklace.

Tengu_temp
2012-12-03, 08:24 PM
Wrong. Knowing things is the Knowledge skill. You can know a lot and still be dumb, and you can also be really brilliant despite barely having any knowledge or education.

ericgrau
2012-12-03, 08:36 PM
Eh Nale only thinks he's smart.

The example given in the PHB of high int low wis is the absent minded professor. Low int and high wis means a great ability to take in what's around you but not how to interpret and solve it. You see lots and lots of trees but no forest. Rain man.



• Wisdom is your download speed
• Intelligence is your processing power
• Charisma is your upload speed
This about says it.

Wardog
2012-12-04, 06:09 PM
Wisdom is Force-sensetivity.

It lets you perform spiritual magic, allows you to resist mind-control, makes you more aware of you surroundings, and helps you to intuitively know things.

Heliomance
2012-12-07, 04:21 AM
I like to sum it up with this demotivator:
http://demotivationalpost.com/demotivators/12740809330/intelligence-vs-wisdom.jpg

Damn you, I was gonna post that.

High Wis, low Int to me is Jack O'Neill from Stargate. Not much patience with book learning, but highly canny with good instincts.

Kerrin
2012-12-07, 12:32 PM
In D&D 3.5, they're desribed here:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#intelligenceInt

Jay R
2012-12-07, 03:22 PM
Intelligence tells how how to try to change the world.

Wisdom tells you how to change yourself.

Necroticplague
2012-12-07, 03:53 PM
Wisdom is the ability to think based on looking to the past, drawing on logic based upon expanding the specific to the non-specific.
Intelligence is he ability to think into the future, drawing on logic narrowing the non-specific to the specific.

Analytica
2012-12-07, 04:49 PM
Also, tongue in cheek...

- Intelligence is used to relate to RAW.
- Wisdom is used to relate to RAI.

RossN
2012-12-08, 02:18 PM
As a Buffy fan I'd probably put it -

High Intelligence, low Wisdow = Willow
High Wisdom, low Intelligence = Xander
High Intelligence, high Wisdow = Giles

Jay R
2012-12-09, 10:30 AM
Can't believe nobody brought up Nale for high-Int, low-Wis.

He'd be perfect for it, except for the high-Int part.

Surely you must realize that Nale's stratagems to date have been tedious, unoriginal, and lacking in any truly keen insight. For a self-proclaimed "evil genius", his schemes have certainly not required any great intellect in their conception (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html).

Also, he falls for really obvious tricks..

Incom
2012-12-09, 03:32 PM
He'd be perfect for it, except for the high-Int part.

Surely you must realize that Nale's stratagems to date have been tedious, unoriginal, and lacking in any truly keen insight. For a self-proclaimed "evil genius", his schemes have certainly not required any great intellect in their conception (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html).

Also, he falls for really obvious tricks..

@397 V's just pushing his buttons. And falling for stupid things (such as V's taunt) indicates a lack of Wisdom, not Intelligence.

V is an example himself, but I think someone else already brought that up.

You aren't entirely wrong about Nale though. I would say his INT is definitely better than his WIS though.

How about... I dunno, Miko? Smart enough to get out of a cage, foolish enough to think everyone's conspiring around her. Meh, maybe not.

I'm sure we could debate MITD's WIS/INT for years.

Xykon is good at all three mental stats, for what that's worth.

Kurald Galain
2012-12-09, 04:14 PM
My favorite example of high int, low wis would be the webcomic Girl Genius (girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php). A world full of mad scientists who don't have an ounce of common sense. For instance... (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090518)

starstern
2015-05-05, 12:01 AM
smart = is the base of the step further then just understanding
intelligence =ability figure out things
clever =the above but with high speed
wisdom=ability differentiate between things
solomonic=the above but at a deeper level
inference =kind of combination of wisdom and intelligence ,just not on intellect/logic; but a conclusion made on evidence of facts

am I wright ??

Ashtagon
2015-05-05, 12:34 AM
Intelligence tells you it's cold outside.

Wisdom tells you to put your coat on.

BWR
2015-05-05, 02:24 AM
Intelligence tells you it's cold outside.

Wisdom tells you to put your coat on.


I'd say it's the exact opposite, at least in D&D terms. Most 'notice things' abilities are Wisdom-based, so you notice it's cold outside by making a succssful Wisdom-based roll.
Intelligence is used to give you various options for how to handle the cold, if that is your wish, giving you alternatives like exercise, wearing clothes to trap heat, lighting a fire, going somewhere it's warmer, etc.

goto124
2015-05-05, 03:12 AM
I figured that Int is gained from reading dusty old books, while Wis is gained from experiencing life.

Int tells you tomatoes are fruits (according to the Great Book of Botanical Definitions), Wis tells you (not) to put them in a salad (depending on your past experience with tomatoes in salads :smallbiggrin:)

erikun
2015-05-05, 04:52 AM
I feel compelled to point out that intelligence and wisdom will be defined differently by different game systems. This is because each game system defines the extent and limitation of any stats it uses, and as such, could have wildly different applications for an intelligence or wisdom stat. However, in general, intelligence tends to still involve quick thinking or mentally-involved tasks. I don't recall off-hand another system that uses wisdom, though.

For D&D, I think everyone else has pretty much covered the INT/WIS comparisons.

Seto
2015-05-05, 05:33 AM
As a Buffy fan I'd probably put it -

High Intelligence, low Wisdow = Willow
High Wisdom, low Intelligence = Xander
High Intelligence, high Wisdow = Giles

Actually, Xander - and for that matter, Spike - mostly act like low-Wisdom characters, forget things, don't see the glaring flaw in a plan etc. But they've got great insight regarding people. To me they look like low-Wisdom characters with maxed ranks in Sense Motive.

goto124
2015-05-05, 05:48 AM
Sense Motive? Not high Cha?

Seto
2015-05-05, 05:53 AM
Spike definitely has CHA. But that has nothing to do with his insight about people, that's Sense Motive. As for Xander, it's debatable. He definitely puts ability score increases in CHA and WIS as he levels up, but he starts out pretty low.

Studoku
2015-05-05, 06:52 AM
Intelligence is for wondering if you could.
Wisdom is for wondering if you should.

Maglubiyet
2015-05-05, 08:39 AM
Yea, or to quote Gary Gygax, "A person with a high INT but a low WIS knows that smoking is bad for you, but doesn't quit..."

I suppose that was directed at himself, since he was a lifelong smoker.

goto124
2015-05-05, 09:14 AM
All the more he knows what he's talking about.

Could be extended to any addiction, too.

Spiryt
2015-05-05, 09:29 AM
Intelligence seeks the thread, 'scans' the thread, and formulates the best answers according to your experience.


Wisdom tells you it's damn 2012 thread.

Eisenheim
2015-05-05, 09:34 AM
I'll throw another example on for high int/low wis: a classic high-school punk or rebel without a cause. Here is someone who is often highly intelligent, intelligent enough to chafe under a system that condescends to them, but lacks the common sense and emotional maturity to react in a constructive way, instead lashing out in a way calculated to make others uncomfortable, but which does nothing to improve their own situation.

Ettina
2015-05-05, 09:35 AM
For another example of high Wis, low Int = most animals.

Their instincts let them have pretty good judgement about how to handle life in their natural environment. For example, lions know what ratio of lions vs hyenas constitutes a fair fight, and why they should avoid any fight that isn't unbalanced in their favour. They can readily judge the risk/benefit ratio of 'lose my hard-earned kill' vs 'fight these hyenas trying to steal my kill' (or 'fight these hyenas to take their kill' vs 'leave them alone and miss out on a meal') and immediately make the right choice. They instinctively take more risks for higher-stakes situations - defending cubs is worth more than defending a meal, for example.

But if you show a lion a mirror (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHN7vJW8t5o), they will think it's another lion and snarl at it.

Haruki-kun
2015-05-05, 09:44 AM
The Winged Mod: Thread Necromancy.