[Mutants & Masterminds 3e] Questions from a New GM

[JusticeBlade]

So, in a Power Level 10 game as I understand it these must be balanced...

Attack rank + Effect rank <= 20.
Fortitude rank + Will rank <= 20.
Dodge rank + Toughness rank <= 20.
Parry rank + Toughness rank <= 20.

I get this, but if you have a Power Effect that is not part of an Attack does it still balance with your Attack Rank?

Like for example, SuperBilly has a power where he can increase or decrease the temperature in an area. It's not technically an attack (but has condition or damage implications perhaps?) so is the Effect Rank possible 20, or is it still limited by his Attack Rank?

If this is the case, if it is limited, which Attack Rank is it limited by? His highest Attack Rank?

What goes into the Attack Rank formula? The 'To Hit' bonus (Attack Bonus in DnD) the 'Damage' Rank or both?


This ties into a power idea for a villain...

The intention would be that he has an automatic and immediate control over any force or energy that comes in contact with his body. Specifically he can control the speed and direction of it. He can't change the form of the energy or force, lasers don't become shockwaves for example, but the idea would be he could 'slow' the laser down to shoot it elsewhere, or multiply the force of a heroes punch to be reflected back at them with the force of a freight train for example.

Him taking damage from an attack would be contingent upon his power being active. If he is unconscious or mentally incapable of calculating the forces around him, he loses his 'immunity' of his ability to control the vectors that make contact with his body.


Vector Deflection - Immunity 20 (Kinetic), Ranged Damage 10 (Reaction, same damage type as immunity) Cost: 70

Now I'm not sure if the damage Ranks could increase if he's PL 10, but if he was higher in PL they could technically right?

[Tengu_temp]

You can't use Power Attack, and similar feats, with powers that don't require an attack roll.

Attack Rank is the to-hit bonus. Power Rank is the damage bonus.

You count the caps for each power separately. You can have +15 attack and +5 damage with one power and +8 attack and +12 damage with another power, for example. Replace "damage" with "power rank" for offensive powers that don't deal damage, like Drain. Powers that don't require an attack roll have their power rank limited by your PL alone.

[Elana]

Power effects that are not attacks are not limited by PL.
But if you use those powers as an attack the PL will restrict how much damage you can actually inflict.


So for example buying speed 30 is alright.
But if you then use your speed in a slam attack you can only use as much damage as your attack rank allows

[JusticeBlade]

Power effects that are not attacks are not limited by PL.
But if you use those powers as an attack the PL will restrict how much damage you can actually inflict.


So for example buying speed 30 is alright.
But if you then use your speed in a slam attack you can only use as much damage as your attack rank allows

Ah. Now that makes sense. So if a Player used a Hero point for an Alternate Effect that caused damage with Speed 30, they could only use the difference of their chosen Attack Bonus (Ranged or Close) as Damage, to a combined maximum of 20 in a PL 10 game, yes?

Also another question... For Affliction, what is meant by or what combination of Flaws and Extra's, produces an effect that says Resisted By X, Overcome by Y.

I've seen this in the Magic Power Profile many times, but when I checked Affliction in the core Hero's Handbook, it seemed like it was just one check, usually Will or Fortitude rather than something that could be 'Overcome'.

[prufock]

I get this, but if you have a Power Effect that is not part of an Attack does it still balance with your Attack Rank?
The effect rank for powers that allow a save but have no attack roll are limited by PL. You can buy it at higher ranks (if, for example, it affects an area based on rank), but the save DC is limited.

[Ganheim]

Also another question... For Affliction, what is meant by or what combination of Flaws and Extra's, produces an effect that says Resisted By X, Overcome by Y.

I've seen this in the Magic Power Profile many times, but when I checked Affliction in the core Hero's Handbook, it seemed like it was just one check, usually Will or Fortitude rather than something that could be 'Overcome'.
Imagine a psionic ability that hits an enemy, they have to resist by Will, but if they fail that they can later overcome it with Fortitude by physically powering through it. That's basically the premise of it, from my understanding.

Nice to see M&M and other systems discussed, hopefully somebody will step forward to run a game.

[JusticeBlade]

Imagine a psionic ability that hits an enemy, they have to resist by Will, but if they fail that they can later overcome it with Fortitude by physically powering through it. That's basically the premise of it, from my understanding.

Nice to see M&M and other systems discussed, hopefully somebody will step forward to run a game.

Sure, so it's two Defense saves, but how does one do that with Damage? Is it an attack roll versus the Effect? Or just compare Damage to Effect? Or third option, some one else has to cause Damage to the Effect externally?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Sure, so it's two Defense saves, but how does one do that with Damage? Is it an attack roll versus the Effect? Or just compare Damage to Effect? Or third option, some one else has to cause Damage to the Effect externally?

The modifier you're looking for is Alternate Resistance. With afflictions, you can apply it to either the initial resistance (say, Dodge to cover your eyes and avoid flashing lights) or the roll you make to shake off the affliction (say, Fortitude to shake off the dizziness caused by the lights). In both cases, there's a normal attack vs Dodge or Parry +10 to hit with the Affliction; then you roll d20+the selected "resisted by" save. At the end of subsequent turns, you can roll the "overcome by" save to try and recover.

You can apply the same modifier to a Damage power, and get, say, Damage (Resisted by Will) to represent a "mind blast" power. Anyone hit with the power would roll a Will check against the Damage +15, and suffer Toughness penalties according to how badly they fail. The advantage of doing so is that your target's Will may be lower than their Toughness; the downside is that it doesn't get any easier for you to hurt them as the fight goes on.

I hope that answers your question?

[JusticeBlade]

The modifier you're looking for is Alternate Resistance. With afflictions, you can apply it to either the initial resistance (say, Dodge to cover your eyes and avoid flashing lights) or the roll you make to shake off the affliction (say, Fortitude to shake off the dizziness caused by the lights). In both cases, there's a normal attack vs Dodge or Parry +10 to hit with the Affliction; then you roll d20+the selected "resisted by" save. At the end of subsequent turns, you can roll the "overcome by" save to try and recover.

You can apply the same modifier to a Damage power, and get, say, Damage (Resisted by Will) to represent a "mind blast" power. Anyone hit with the power would roll a Will check against the Damage +15, and suffer Toughness penalties according to how badly they fail. The advantage of doing so is that your target's Will may be lower than their Toughness; the downside is that it doesn't get any easier for you to hurt them as the fight goes on.

I hope that answers your question?

Sort of. I get that there's a secondary save, I'm just confused by the 'Overcome By Damage' part.

I'm wondering what that means in the context of the Power, like an Affliction Effect that doesn't cause Damage but says as its Alternate Resistance, Overcome by Damage. What source of Damage and how is that rolled is my question?

I think it would be absolutely cool to have a villain ensnare someone with vines for example, and have their buddy cut them out, but I'm looking for an example of the mechanics since I'm a bit confused as to which Damage value is being rolled and compared to the Power effect.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Sort of. I get that there's a secondary save, I'm just confused by the 'Overcome By Damage' part.

I'm wondering what that means in the context of the Power, like an Affliction Effect that doesn't cause Damage but says as its Alternate Resistance, Overcome by Damage. What source of Damage and how is that rolled is my question?

I think it would be absolutely cool to have a villain ensnare someone with vines for example, and have their buddy cut them out, but I'm looking for an example of the mechanics since I'm a bit confused as to which Damage value is being rolled and compared to the Power effect.

Oh, for the premade Snare power? The idea is that you're trapping the foe in a block of ice, or wrapping them up with vines or something. So to "overcome" the power and escape, you roll either Damage (trying to break the restraints) or Sleight of Hand (to wiggle out).

If rolling Damage, the roll is d20+ the rank of your Damage power vs the Affliction rank +10.

[JusticeBlade]

Oh, for the premade Snare power? The idea is that you're trapping the foe in a block of ice, or wrapping them up with vines or something. So to "overcome" the power and escape, you roll either Damage (trying to break the restraints) or Sleight of Hand (to wiggle out).

If rolling Damage, the roll is d20+ the rank of your Damage power vs the Affliction rank +10.

Haha perfect! Thank you, I assume it's the highest Rank of a Damage power you can perform yes? Or is it limited to close Powers or attacks only?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Haha perfect! Thank you, I assume it's the highest Rank of a Damage power you can perform yes? Or is it limited to close Powers or attacks only?

You might limit it based on what kind of weapon/power they can bring to bear, but yeah. And I suppose you could use a lower-rank Damage power if you have one, though I'm not sure why you'd want to.

[JusticeBlade]

Here's a relevant Advancement question I'm having a bit of issue with.

If you have a Power point from completing a session, and you want to add an Alternate Effect you've been Power Stunting recently, is going to cost you 1 Power point for that Extra, the difference in Power points for that Powers current Rank given the new Extra, or you need to buy a whole new Power?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Alternate Effects are 1 point, yes. (Unless they're dynamic, in which case they're 2, but if you're talking about a power stunt, it's probably just a normal AE). That fact is key to the making effective, versatile characters-- building sets of related Alternate Effects (an Array), such as set of trick arrows, magic spells, or martial arts techniques.

For example, here's an array I made for a martial arts type character recently:

{table=head]Point Cost|Technique Name|Effects
15|Akido|Reaction Affliction 5 (Resisted by Ref, Overcome by Fort, Hindered, Prone)
1|Flurry of Blows|Multiattack on Damage 11, Variable descriptor 1: any melee Damage effect
1|Whirlwind Attack|Burst Area, Selective on Strength Damage 6; Alt Resistance (Defense 1/2)
1|Perfect Hit|Feature 3: No attack roll, Penetrating 10, Incurable, Variable descriptor 1: any melee damage effect
1|Nerve Pinch|Close Affliction 8 (Daze, Stun, Paralyzed; Fort), Subtle
1|Hip Throw|Close Affliction 8 (Resisted by Ref, Overcome by Fort; Dazed and Vulnerable, Stunned and Prone)
1|Bone Break|Grab-Based Affliction 8 (Hindered and Impaired, Immobilized and Disabled, Incap), Cumulative[/table]

I pay the 15 points for the "Akido" power, the most expensive of the set. Each additional power is an Alternate Effect, so I pay only one point for it. One 15-point power plus 6 Alternate Effects costs me a total of 21 points, but gives me a wide variety of things to do in battle.

[JusticeBlade]

Alternate Effects are 1 point, yes. (Unless they're dynamic, in which case they're 2, but if you're talking about a power stunt, it's probably just a normal AE). That fact is key to the making effective, versatile characters-- building sets of related Alternate Effects (an Array), such as set of trick arrows, magic spells, or martial arts techniques.

For example, here's an array I made for a martial arts type character recently:

{table=head]Point Cost|Technique Name|Effects
15|Akido|Reaction Affliction 5 (Resisted by Ref, Overcome by Fort, Hindered, Prone)
1|Flurry of Blows|Multiattack on Damage 11, Variable descriptor 1: any melee Damage effect
1|Whirlwind Attack|Burst Area, Selective on Strength Damage 6; Alt Resistance (Defense 1/2)
1|Perfect Hit|Feature 3: No attack roll, Penetrating 10, Incurable, Variable descriptor 1: any melee damage effect
1|Nerve Pinch|Close Affliction 8 (Daze, Stun, Paralyzed; Fort), Subtle
1|Hip Throw|Close Affliction 8 (Resisted by Ref, Overcome by Fort; Dazed and Vulnerable, Stunned and Prone)
1|Bone Break|Grab-Based Affliction 8 (Hindered and Impaired, Immobilized and Disabled, Incap), Cumulative[/table]

I pay the 15 points for the "Akido" power, the most expensive of the set. Each additional power is an Alternate Effect, so I pay only one point for it. One 15-point power plus 6 Alternate Effects costs me a total of 21 points, but gives me a wide variety of things to do in battle.

This is true, and very useful. But is it still 1 Power Point after Character Creation, or do you pay the Rank difference?

Basically, we have your Array above, assume we've played a few sessions. You want to add another Alternate Effect to your Array. First, is that possible? Second, how much does it cost?

1 Point because your just adding an Extra, but future purchases of Rank cost more.

OR

The # of Power Points difference in the new Powers Rank based on the Primary Power, so if it's Rank 5, I'm paying 5 Power Points because that's the difference when you add +1 Extra to all the Ranks of the Primary Power.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It's still 1 point. Point costs don't change after character creation is over.

[JusticeBlade]

It's still 1 point. Point costs don't change after character creation is over.

Except that if they wanted to raise the Rank of that Power, it would cost them more according to the new formula with this +1 Extra.

This would mean enterprising Characters should build their base Powers Rank first, then start designing Alternate Effects to make an Array out of their base Power yes?

Basically, I'm trying to think of situations I can advise my players on in our group for play and Character creation since were all new and I'm the GM so I'm suppose to have a solid grasp on the intricacies of the system.

If a Player is like "I want to start with him being superfast, because he's a speedster, but I want to make sure he has some combat utility after a few sessions," I can advise something like building a key theme around a neat power for a speedster and design some Alternate Effects as we go to represent his learning.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Except that if they wanted to raise the Rank of that Power, it would cost them more according to the new formula with this +1 Extra.
The new Alternate Effect must have a total point cost equal to or less than the base power, yes. You can always change the base power of an array, though (I think).

It's OK for starting characters to have a few alternate effects. A speedster, say, might have one "super-speed" power with Speed and maybe ranks of Improved Initiative, and a "speed stunts" array with things like Quickness, Multiattack Damage (I punch you a thousand times in a second!), a Move Object (limited to away) power (I run around really fast and whip up a tornado!), and so on.

If you're learning the system, check out the green ronin forums. People have done some really nice builds, and it's another good place to ask questions. Also, I recommend that you or players buy the appropriate Power Profile pdfs. They're a dollar each, but have great ideas for character building-- discussion of descriptors, effects, complications, and pre-built powers.

[JusticeBlade]

If you're learning the system, check out the green ronin forums. People have done some really nice builds, and it's another good place to ask questions. Also, I recommend that you or players buy the appropriate Power Profile pdfs. They're a dollar each, but have great ideas for character building-- discussion of descriptors, effects, complications, and pre-built powers.

I've applied twice to register over at the official forums, and emailed the webmaster over the past several weeks. I haven't got any reply or response.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I've applied twice to register over at the official forums, and emailed the webmaster over the past several weeks. I haven't got any reply or response.

oh, right, I had heard that. There were some pretty big problems with spambots recently.

[JusticeBlade]

New question...

A Player asked for my help in designing a Power around Empathic Healing. The idea would be she would 'take' the Damage or Conditions from an injured ally and be able to 'float' the Damage or Conditions before they effect her so she can transfer it to an enemy.

We thought this would be a Healing Power with the Feature Extra to represent the turn delay of Empathic Healing Flaw, then a separate Damage Power.

Is this the right way to do this? Do we use the Limited Flaw to limit the type of damage and amount to the kind she healed?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Um. Not 100% sure on the RAW-legality of this, but I'd do it something like this:


Damage Transfer:Close Damage 10, Alternate Resistance: Fortitude; Linked to Close Healing 10, Limited to Self, Limited to no more damage conditions than those inflicted by the Damage effect (15 points)
Close Healing 10 (Empathic) (1 point)

(First power costs 1 point per rank for the Healing, and 1 point/2 ranks for the Damage. Second power costs 1/rank, and is an alternate effect, so only 1 point total).

Or, less accurately but more simply,


Damage Transfer: Close Healing 10 (20 points)
Close Damage 10, Alternate Resistance: Fortitude, Limited to being used the turn after Healing. (1 points)


(I'm not positive that you can Link effects with different targets, but I, as a GM, see no real problem doing it like that.)

(You are using Limited correctly in your approach)

[JusticeBlade]

Um. Not 100% sure on the RAW-legality of this, but I'd do it something like this:


Damage Transfer:Close Damage 10, Alternate Resistance: Fortitude; Linked to Close Healing 10, Limited to Self, Limited to no more damage conditions than those inflicted by the Damage effect (15 points)
Close Healing 10 (Empathic) (1 point)

(First power costs 1 point per rank for the Healing, and 1 point/2 ranks for the Damage. Second power costs 1/rank, and is an alternate effect, so only 1 point total).

Or, less accurately but more simply,


Damage Transfer: Close Healing 10 (20 points)
Close Damage 10, Alternate Resistance: Fortitude, Limited to being used the turn after Healing. (1 points)


(I'm not positive that you can Link effects with different targets, but I, as a GM, see no real problem doing it like that.)

(You are using Limited correctly in your approach)

Awesome, we added Feature to let her delay the Empathic damage a turn, which I think is an appropriate use of the Extra.

Healing as written says if the check fails it takes one minute before you can try again, unless you use Extra Effort. I interpreted that as for the subject you were just trying to heal, but does it mean any subject?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Healing as written says if the check fails it takes one minute before you can try again, unless you use Extra Effort. I interpreted that as for the subject you were just trying to heal, but does it mean any subject?

I'd assume so-- it'd be mighty crappy otherwise.

[JusticeBlade]

Okay, so we went through Character creation last night and this brought up a lot if optimization and a few Circumstance Bonus questions....


The main one is that rules wise, Circumstance Bonus's can go over the PL limit of 20, since we are playing with PL 10 Characters. Usually when these bonuses come from Power Attack or similar Advantages they even out since it's a penalty for Attack, Damage or Defense for a return.

Now if someone has an Enhanced Trait Power, Attacks with a Power Attack and then declares he's activating his Sustained Enhanced Trait Power as a Free Action to boost his Fighting Ability Score, does this break the PL limit of 20 or does an Attack roll 'freeze' the bonuses, or even roll them down so that they are within 20?

Basically can he go past the limit with the two abilities, Enhancing his Fighting back up to it's previous score, while increasing Damage past the limit with Power Attack.

So basically...

FGT = 10
Ranks in Damage = 10

Power Attack -5 to FGT, +5 to Damage for 15

Free Action, Enhanced Trait 5 Ranks.

FGT roll +10 to Hit, + 15 to Damage?




Another question... When you hit the limit of Attack Bonus and Effect/Damage Bonus, which goes down first or is it player choice or do you just need to build the character or power so it stays within the limit?

There are a lot of characters that boost traits then attack with Damage powers that when paired with the boost would exceed Power Level limit, but their boosts are temporary so they want to be effective with their Damage powers after their enhanced trait boosts wear off.

An example of this with Enhanced Trait is that a player gave the Power the Fades Flaw and put lots of Ranks into it. When active it would put his trait to maximum and even with Fades, if it's the straight Ranks added to his trait it would stay at the maximum for quite a few turns presumably because he added so much and the cap is whats lowering it each time, not the Fade Flaw.

Or is this not the case? Does it just add up to the cap and each turn it Fades down by one less than the cap even though he's adding excess Ranks?

FGT = 10
STR = 5
Enhanced Trait bonus 15 to STR, with Fades

Does it go to...
FGT = 10
STR = 10

But for five turns maxed before it ticks down, or just it start ticking down right away?


More on Enhanced Trait, can it only enhance Abilities, or can it do other traits like Skills, Advantages or even other Powers? One of the players wanted to Power Stunt himself focusing his Enhanced Trait into his Teleport Rank for further distance.


Last question for now, a player wants to build an Affliction type power that lets her grapple and immobilize a target, and maintain the immobilization without giving up her Standard Action in a Round, thematically picking someone up under one arm with the strength of Superman so they can't escape while they attack minions.

Her design of the Power went something like this, Affliction X, Resisted by Strength, Impaired, Immobile,
-Extras: Concentration, Alternate Resistance: Strength,
-Flaws: Instant Recovery, Limited Degree, Grab-Based

Now I believe Concentration is not a Free action, so this might not work as she intended but I want to see if it was possible to do given this system.

[tensai_oni]

Mutants and Masterminds is a game that should NOT be played with an attitude of "RAW is god". That way players will easily break the game in half for you. A game master saying "no, this is overpowered - do something else" is beneficial for everyone. And your questions just prove why.

1. No, boosts do not let powers go over the cap. It's still +10/+10, and what the player is trying to do is too cheesy. Tell him to quit it.

2. I'd rule it as Fades making it go down from +10 to +9 immediately, +5 after five turns of ticking down. However see above: tell the player to quit it. It's cheese.

3. As it's in the book, Enhanced Trait can affect only Abilities. Skills and Advantages may be fine if you rule it that way, but not Powers - for the sake of avoiding the same scenario as you just described.

4. Concentration means the power works only for as long as the character maintains it and does nothing else, so no - it won't work as your player intended. I'd probably just make her Grapple normally. Messing with the action economy is a bad idea unless you are trying to break the game in general.

[JusticeBlade]

Mutants and Masterminds is a game that should NOT be played with an attitude of "RAW is god". That way players will easily break the game in half for you. A game master saying "no, this is overpowered - do something else" is beneficial for everyone. And your questions just prove why.

1. No, boosts do not let powers go over the cap. It's still +10/+10, and what the player is trying to do is too cheesy. Tell him to quit it.

2. I'd rule it as Fades making it go down from +10 to +9 immediately, +5 after five turns of ticking down. However see above: tell the player to quit it. It's cheese.

3. As it's in the book, Enhanced Trait can affect only Abilities. Skills and Advantages may be fine if you rule it that way, but not Powers - for the sake of avoiding the same scenario as you just described.

4. Concentration means the power works only for as long as the character maintains it and does nothing else, so no - it won't work as your player intended. I'd probably just make her Grapple normally. Messing with the action economy is a bad idea unless you are trying to break the game in general.

It's not intentional on their part I don't believe. We're a D&D group nominally, so optimizing and trying to get the maximums out of what your good at is usually not only condoned but required for facing higher level threats or challenges.

I'm also a new GM to this system, so it's also on me to know that these things can't be done and inform them correctly. I'm sure had I known and provided the correct info, it wouldn't be an issue. Next time we sit down I do intend to make these suggestions and clarify how these work, refunding power points as necessary to re-work the powers.

The basic just of what I'm hearing from you is there is no circumventing the cap, unless the Circumstance modifier comes from the GM due to some story or scene based mechanic and that they should try to design powers to remain within the cap.

Now, pending they do use Enhanced Trait to hit caps, which one decreases to compensate, the Effect or the Attack bonus? Or is it their choice?

Also another question, though this time to do with teleporting objects above people so they fall on them. Falling Damage is 4, adding two for each Rank of distance fallen for a maximum of 16. Does Mass factor into this equation, and how long does it take to fall onto the target? Just the equivalent Time Rank or does it move fast enough to hit in two turns, or its just GM fiat?

[tensai_oni]

There is a thin line between optimization and cheese, especially in a system like M&M. So it's easy to cross even if you didn't mean to. As a general rule - if an action messes with the action economy (to give an obvious example, a move-action or free-action attack power), or does not let the target defend against itself at all, it's probably cheese.

Also, caps are there for a reason - NPCs can circumvent them, but players shouldn't. If they want to optimize, they should go wider, not higher.

Hitting a cap should be solved with common sense. A +10 attack/+7 damage (with PL 10) that gets a +5 damage boost will turn into +10/+10, and be treated as such for the sake of drains and similar effects. It won't turn into +8/+12 because that would require the attack score to be lowered.

I don't have M&M 3rd ed books at hand, so I can't give you the exact ruling on falling objects. But when in doubt, GM fiat. Just remember damage from falling objects adheres to the damage cap as well.

[JusticeBlade]

So then to be clear, if you Multi-Attack a single target to try to get the +5 bonus to the attack Effect, and use Power Attack, they don't stay for a +10 to Effect, or they do, but only as long as they don't max out into the PL limit?

Also similar question in regard to Critical Hits adding to the save DC check, they don't interfere or can exceed the PL cap right?

[Grod_The_Giant]

So then to be clear, if you Multi-Attack a single target to try to get the +5 bonus to the attack Effect, and use Power Attack, they don't stay for a +10 to Effect, or they do, but only as long as they don't max out into the PL limit?

Power Attack, All-Out Attack, Multiattack and the like aren't affected by PL caps. The maneuver you're proposing might work like this:

Captain Awesome has 10 Strength and an Unarmed Combat skill of +10. He decides to use his Flurry of Justice power to add Multiattack to his unarmed damage. He also decides to power attack for 2. Thus, his roll becomes d20+10-2 = d20+8. He rolls well, and hits his foe with 2 degrees of success, enough to get a +2 bonus from Multiattack. The foe than rolls a Toughness save against Damage 14 (10 + 2 power attack +2 multiattack).

Also, NPCs generally have to obey PL caps just like anyone else. They can ignore power point limits, but not PL limits.

Personally, I'd rule that effect-boosting works in the opposite of the way tensai_oni suggests (lowering your accuracy as the effect gets bigger and harder to control), but that's just me. Pretty sure there are no rules on that sort of thing.

Also, falling damage is 4+distance rank of the fall.

[JusticeBlade]

Also, falling damage is 4+distance rank of the fall.

Regardless of the Mass of the object? Or would that just add a GM fiat Area modifier? Large truck vs. House for example. There is a character that can teleport himself and other things he touches and wants to one of his main methods of attack to be dropping things on enemies.

Would that concept it be bettered handled by a straight Damage power with just the descriptor changed to teleport or could it be done by the rules as written in GM guide and Action and Adventure section?

[ Also at this point of two pages of questions, I'd like to say thank you to Grod and others for taking the time to answer all of my questions as well as clarify a lot of mechanics of the game system to me! ]

[Grod_The_Giant]

Oh. Dropping something ON someone? (looks back to find the original question).

Ah. I'd recommend making an Alternate Effect, yeah. Indirect Ranged Damage, limited to the mass of the object, with an alternate resistance: dodge (to give make it a dodge check no damage, instead of you rolling against their dodge), for 2 points + 1 point/rank of the power.

If you wanted a more general ruling, damage equal to the object's mass is a pretty good approximation.

[JusticeBlade]

Next issue, most of the Players are okay with my explanations of the rules and Enhanced Trait limitations except one.

His argument is for using Energy Absorption with the Distracting Flaw to boost his Energy Control power. While he gets it cheaper by using two powers to boost the other his argument is that if he removes the Flaw it costs the same and limits him to only gaining power when he takes damage.

He's not willing to accept the explanation that Enhanced Trait is just Ability Score only if it costs essentially the same as the other trait like a Power or Skill, especially for what he wants to do, and also that it is used to boost powers in the Energy Absorption box.

Both green box powers he's using are on 107, plus the distracting Flaw.

[Tengu_temp]

That's because Energy Absorption is not a very good power in general. I had a player who used it (or its 2e equivalent, anyway), and he pretty much had to take a punch or a few just to be on the same level as everyone else.

But no, it still shouldn't be allowed to improve your powers over the cap. This, on the other hand, would make it overpowered.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Yeah. Enhanced Trait's an important power, but it works best of things like, I don't know, Captain Marvel.

In this case, I'd build the character with a bit of accuracy shift-- say, Energy Control 8, Ranged Combat (Energy Control) +12. Then use the Energy Absorption bit as a sort of power attack.

[JusticeBlade]

But to clarify, according to the example for Energy Absorption the Enhanced Trait power can enhance technically anything, even Powers? Or was this errata'd or misinterpreted?

[Grod_The_Giant]

As far as I can tell, there are no issues RAW, as long as the descriptors make sense.

[JusticeBlade]

As far as I can tell, there are no issues RAW, as long as the descriptors make sense.

Ah okay. Thank you for the clarification! Now I must go eat my words again and tell my Players I messed up my explanations. >.<

[JusticeBlade]

One more question, Tactile Senses, they negate Concealment as per reading Concealment (as long as the target is not insubstantial), if a Player had a Power that let him have an Area Tactile Sense that was Accurate, would he still have to pay for Counters Concealment if he wanted to feel Concealed Characters sneaking up on him?

My gut instinct was 'Yes,' but reading the RAW it seems like a 'No.'

[Grod_The_Giant]

One more question, Tactile Senses, they negate Concealment as per reading Concealment (as long as the target is not insubstantial), if a Player had a Power that let him have an Area Tactile Sense that was Accurate, would he still have to pay for Counters Concealment if he wanted to feel Concealed Characters sneaking up on him?

My gut instinct was 'Yes,' but reading the RAW it seems like a 'No.'

I'd say no. Well, maybe if he wanted to detect incorporeal things, but I think you're reading the RAW correctly. Concealment works for specific senses. If you don't (can't) have Concealment vs tactical senses, then you're not hidden from his ranged tactile sense. It makes no sense for an invisible character to be immune to a sense that involves feeling movements in the air, or however you're fluffing the ranged touch thing.

(FYI, the power would technically only need the Ranged modifier-- tactile sense are already Accurate and Radius.)

[JusticeBlade]

I'd say no. Well, maybe if he wanted to detect incorporeal things, but I think you're reading the RAW correctly. Concealment works for specific senses. If you don't (can't) have Concealment vs tactical senses, then you're not hidden from his ranged tactile sense. It makes no sense for an invisible character to be immune to a sense that involves feeling movements in the air, or however you're fluffing the ranged touch thing.

(FYI, the power would technically only need the Ranged modifier-- tactile sense are already Accurate and Radius.)

Awesome, okay. I shall inform him of this and see what I can do to help. Also I found out how to do 'Dropping Objects' damage in Create, apparently it is the Toughness of the Object (which in the case of vehicles I am going with Mass) that is the Damage modifier plus an Area effect depending on Volume or Mass and the target gets a Dodge test to get out of the way.

[JusticeBlade]

Can you make a Teleport Reaction Effect that is triggered by Damage, or an Attack that avoids that attack or damage, or does it trigger after hit/missing or damage is done? Reading Reaction, this seems plausible but kind of a grey area since if I do it, Players can to, so I wanted some feedback on how to tactfully implement something like this to not make it overpowered.

Idea I had was a Villain who would could teleport away from most attacks except ones he could not perceive making teamwork or concealment big factors in dealing with him.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Theoretically, but a power like "Reaction Teleport 1 (melee attacks)" is broken because it duplicates a much more expensive Immunity. But since you don't have to count points for NPCs, feel free to whip up something like

Teleport Defense: Immunity 60/70/80/whatever (all effects resisted by Dodge, all effects resisted by Parry), linked to Reaction Teleport 1, Quirk: not against surprise attacks.

(As a general rule, if a power duplicates something significantly more expensive, it's probably not OK. Other things to watch out for are perfect Concealment powers without flaws like Limited, Passive, or Resistible-- especially if the character also has Subtle attacks-- Reaction Create, and Attack Teleport powers.)

[JusticeBlade]

Theoretically, but a power like "Reaction Teleport 1 (melee attacks)" is broken because it duplicates a much more expensive Immunity. But since you don't have to count points for NPCs, feel free to whip up something like

Teleport Defense: Immunity 60/70/80/whatever (all effects resisted by Dodge, all effects resisted by Parry), linked to Reaction Teleport 1, Quirk: not against surprise attacks.

(As a general rule, if a power duplicates something significantly more expensive, it's probably not OK. Other things to watch out for are perfect Concealment powers without flaws like Limited, Passive, or Resistible-- especially if the character also has Subtle attacks-- Reaction Create, and Attack Teleport powers.)

Understood. I'll keep this in mind when reviewing Power Effects both I and my Players create, seems like a very wise rule of thumb. Again, both myself and my players come from D&D backgrounds so we're always trying to optimize.

From what I've learned from all the amazing help you've given me about Power questions on this forum is that with Powers its about the intention of the Power and the cost, making sure the Power does what you envisioned for the correct cost. Looking at the Teleport Reaction as an Immunity wasn't something I had considered actually but I can totally see it that way now.

Now we have a Teleport character, who will probably be attacking via teleporting objects onto things and using it to be mobile, so what do you mean by Teleport Attack? Like having a Teleport Reaction triggered by a successful attack?

[Grod_The_Giant]

By "Teleport Attack" I mean a Teleport power with the Attack modifier, so that the target has to make a save or be teleported away. If the target has enough speed to get back in the fight 1 or 2 turns later, it works out OK, but if not, then it's basically a one-shot kill power.

Since you've got mostly new players, I highly recommend you guys pick up the appropriate power profiles for your characters. They're one dollar pdfs which usually have some really helpful suggestions with pre-built powers, rules discussions, suggested complications, and so on.

[JusticeBlade]

I'll keep an eye out for it. Could be circumvented perhaps with a Complication if it's a rare thing, but I can see how it would be annoying if it happened all the time.

Back to Immunity, and well, General and Defensive Power Effects, are they limited by Power Level in any way? I've re-read the Attack and Effect section of Power Points and my guess is either no, or the maximum is twice the series Power Level as usual.

So in this case... Immunity 40 etc. with a reflect and redirect would be capped down to the series Power Level in terms of reflect Damage right? Not taking the full 40 Ranks or would it be based off the attack that was reflected?

[Grod_The_Giant]

If it doesn't affect another target, no, it's not capped by PL.

With your Immunity plus reflect/redirect, I'd say that the reflected attack must be limited to series PL, but the immunity as a whole is not. (I also might watch that power- reflect/redirect are really only supposed to go with deflect, as otherwise you're basically getting extra attacks in the round)

[JusticeBlade]

Their listed as Extras for the Immunity Power Effect write-up so I think they should probably be fair game. I'll keep an eye on it though, but I'm more guilty than the Players in this case because extra attacks from a Villain via Immunity Reflect was something I was considering due to the whole one Villain, six heroes deal.

I realize that usually high Defenses, Powers, Minions and Lieutenants should help with the good old gang-up, but if I did want to create a stand-alone Villain I want to try my best to make sure he's not brutalized in 1 turn.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Oh, good catch. :smallredface: Yeah, if you're making an NPC, go nuts. As long as you're not unfairly removing PCs from combat, it's all on the table.

On the subject of solo villains: I do this in a lot of systems, actually, but try giving your boss an extra turn or two per round. Just roll his initiative twice or something; it works wonders with the whole outnumbered thing.

[JusticeBlade]

Material Toughness, do you have to roll it, or can you just add 10 and make that the DC? So an inch of stone would be DC 15, and to break it you would need a check of 25 or greater, 30 to obliterate it?

Seems high if you do it that way for breaking things in a superhero game, where walls are mainly inches (usually 4 or more) thick. If you roll though for the Toughness of the object, it's more variable.

[JusticeBlade]

Also a Player asked me to write up some FullMetal Alchemist style Power Effects for their Character.

She doesn't want them to be 'magical' but still follows the principles of having to touch the matter to transform it, even if its just touching the ground to transform the ground at range.

Is this mechanically sound bunch of Powers for her?

Matter Transmutation Array - Total Cost: 23 pp, Descriptors: Matter, Bludgeoning

[Primary Power] Matter Shaping - Create - 10 Ranks, Cost: 20 pp, DC: 20
-Extras: Innate (Flat +1)
-Flaws: Permanent (-0), Quirk: Must have connection with available Inanimate Matter (Flat -1)

Notes:
-Maximum Volume possible to 'Shape' is 1,000 cft or 30m2 and Maximum Toughness possible is 10
-Dropping an Object on someone is an Area Effect attack, Area is based on Object Size, Damage is Toughness, thus maximum area is 1,000 cft or 30m2 with Damage 10, DC 20 Dodge for No Damage
-Shaped objects have a Strength of 10 for purposes of supporting ('carrying') weight
-Trapping a target in a matter cage is a Ranged Attack Check vs. Dodge Defense, followed by a Dodge Resistance Check versus DC 20.


[Alternate Effect] Matter Repairing - Transform (Repair) - 10 Ranks, Descriptors: Matter, Healing
-Flaws: Permanent (-0)
Notes:
Maximum Volume possible to 'Repair' is 15 cft or 0.4m2


[Alternate Effect] Matter Punch - Attack - Ranks 7, DC: 22 Descriptors: Matter, Bludgeoning
-Extras: Ranged (+1 per Rank), Feature: Permanently Shapes Connected Matter as Part of Attack, Maximum limitations as per Matter Shaping (+1 Per Rank)
-Flaws: Quirk: Must have connection with available Inanimate Matter (Flat -1)


[Alternate Effect] Matter Cascade - Area Attack - Ranks 5, DC: 20 Descriptors: Matter, Bludgeoning
-Extras: Ranged (+1 per Rank), Feature: Permanently Shapes Connected Matter as Part of Attack, Maximum limitations as per Matter Shaping (+1 Per Rank), Area: Shapeable (+1 Cost Per Rank)
-Flaws: Quirk: Must have connection with available Inanimate Matter (Flat -1)
Notes:
-The volume of the Attack Effect is 30 cft or 0.8m2 and may be in an form you choose as long as it is continuous.
-Targets make a Dodge Resistance Check at 20 to reduce effect by half, if they succeed the damage DC is 17.