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Morithias
2012-12-02, 12:52 AM
I'm kinda on the fench with a problem I'm having with myself in the Play-by-post Hogwarts game.

In that game basically the leveling system is gained by studying and your courses level up, so you can unlock more courses, and get more things to study.

Now of course you don't have to do this kind of stuff, if you're willing to face detention, but that's the great thing about sandbox.

But is it wrong for me to look at this and go "My (player) goal is to get every single course to the max level if possible." And then proceed to fill the whole timetable with study sessions less for the purpose of roleplaying and more cause I want the stats.

Now stormwind rears it's ugly head here. Obviously if the character is played well, and is justified as a workaholic it's legit right? Just cause the player wants to see how high he can get the stats, it's legit to do this so long as you don't metagame, break character, etc.

I'm trying to think of a D&D metaphor.

Like imagine if you had a player who wanted his character to know everything, so he made this awesome build that in the end, knew everything.

And the character was like a scholar, who had a total legit in character reason for having max ranks in every knowledge skill.

But when asked why, the in character response is "I just like studying."

Is this legit? At what point do player goals cross the line into out of character. It's obvious Maria (my witch) doesn't know about the levelling system, so do I just need to keep playing her correctly and in character, or is trying to 100% complete the play-by-post game a jerk move? It's one thing to 100% complete a videogame...there's no one on the other side whose game you might be hurting via your optimizing.

So am I being a jerk here? What can I do, to try and complete the game, but not be a bad player? Should I just talk to the DM?

Edit: The game in question.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259465

SowZ
2012-12-02, 12:57 AM
I'm kinda on the fench with a problem I'm having with myself in the Play-by-post Hogwarts game.

In that game basically the leveling system is gained by studying and your courses level up, so you can unlock more courses, and get more things to study.

Now of course you don't have to do this kind of stuff, if you're willing to face detention, but that's the great thing about sandbox.

But is it wrong for me to look at this and go "My (player) goal is to get every single course to the max level if possible." And then proceed to fill the whole timetable with study sessions less for the purpose of roleplaying and more cause I want the stats.

Now stormwind rears it's ugly head here. Obviously if the character is played well, and is justified as a workaholic it's legit right? Just cause the player wants to see how high he can get the stats, it's legit to do this so long as you don't metagame, break character, etc.

I'm trying to think of a D&D metaphor.

Like imagine if you had a player who wanted his character to know everything, so he made this awesome build that in the end, knew everything.

And the character was like a scholar, who had a total legit in character reason for having max ranks in every knowledge skill.

But when asked why, the in character response is "I just like studying."

Is this legit? At what point do player goals cross the line into out of character. It's obvious Maria (my witch) doesn't know about the levelling system, so do I just need to keep playing her correctly and in character, or is trying to 100% complete the play-by-post game a jerk move? It's one thing to 100% complete a videogame...there's no one on the other side whose game you might be hurting via your optimizing.

So am I being a jerk here? What can I do, to try and complete the game, but not be a bad player? Should I just talk to the DM?

Edit: The game in question.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259465

Be prepared to be compared to Hermoine. In Harry Potter, it made sense she was so studious. She was a naturally responsible and driven person, and the realization that she A. did not know even the basics of the world B. she didn't know many, many things that other children learned just by growing up and C. her power over magics was based upon what she knew, all caused her to study all the time.

So, a couple more reasons than just, "I like studying." would be nice. Personally, I think it might be a bit cheesy if you want to powergame and then come up with a reason to do so in character as opposed to creating a character concept and then manipulating the mechanics to get that concept working. But I wouldn't say it is bad roleplaying.

Morithias
2012-12-02, 01:15 AM
Well her life goal is to create a philosopher's stone, which only has ever been done once....so she...wants to accomplish the next to impossible?

She wants to like, be an alchemist, and combine magic and technology. She sees alchemy as the branch between muggles and magic, as back when Flamel was young even the muggles studied it, eventually getting gun powder.

So she's curious if she can go back to that route, and make say an infinite energy source. Break the barrier between the two realms and improve quality of life on both sides, by making the mages understand technology, and the muggles understand the benefits of magic.

Impossible goal of course, but the defining trait of her house is ambition...and with the stone, she'll have all the time in the world to work on her goal. Immortality is such a sweet sweet burdan.

(No I didn't base this character on my own studies of magic in my spare time why do you ask?)

ericgrau
2012-12-02, 01:15 AM
I never bought into the stormwind fallacy. It is possible to have a reasonably strong build and still roleplay well, but the higher you go up on optimization the fewer options you have. A good balance is to go most of the way up and yet still have 1,000 roleplay options.

Based on your description of the system there seems to be an inherit flaw where the most optimal concept is the one where you study the most. Therefore either every student is a studyholic and also has subpersonalities on top of that, like some kind of ivy league school, or it is simply impossible in that system to play 95% of the major in the movie without seriously hurting your optimization capabilities. I believe a hybrid system would be better, where either adventuring experience or study might aid leveling so that players can build whatever they want.

You may want to contact the DM but otherwise your best bet is to make a concept with a focus besides studying, but who still studies a pretty good amount. Other players probably noticed studying is important too so you should at least keep up, but try to have other personal goals before the whole gaming group turns into a bunch of dull nerds.

NikitaDarkstar
2012-12-02, 01:24 AM
Lets look at it from another point of view; what are you hoping to gain from "completing the game"? A sense of accomplishment? Bragging rights? Having "the best" character? Or an in-character reason?

Because really, it all comes down to in.character motivation in my opinion and "I like to study" is not a very strong one. It's not a bad start, but it needs to be more fleshed out. And well, if you can't provide a good in-character motivation, or at least play the character in a believable way (as in, don't make it a Mary Sue) you're probably stepping on peoples toes. And to be honest, the fact that you even have to ask should be a bit of a warning sign to yourself. Have fun, but not on the expense of others, and if you just want to "100% complete" a game, perhaps playing a computer game to get that urge out of your system is a good idea, or at the very least talk to the others OOC and ask how they feel about it.

Morithias
2012-12-02, 01:26 AM
Based on your description of the system there seems to be an inherit flaw where the most optimal concept is the one where you study the most. Therefore either every student is a studyholic and also has subpersonalities on top of that, like some kind of ivy league school, or it is simply impossible in that system to play 95% of the major in the movie without seriously hurting your optimization capabilities. I believe a hybrid system would be better, where either adventuring experience or study might aid leveling so that players can build whatever they want.

Maybe I was unclear...as far as I can tell, there is no actual "reward" to gaining ranks in magic, besides maybe less backfiring, and more slots to put ranks in.

Also I seem to be the only one doing it, which is what made me question my choices in doing this. Everyone else has stuff like Quiddich practice, and morning exercises.

I'm just not sure if this is "Wrong" to do. I'm not a "Stop having fun guy", who thinks that other people need to play this way... I'm just a guy who finds earning the most points fun...

I play a lot of simulation games, where I often try to make the "Best" something, rather than any sort of other goal, unless I get really bored with it.

Like in Sim City 4, I boost education, police, etc, as high as I can, cause I want to build a utopia, not a city.


Lets look at it from another point of view; what are you hoping to gain from "completing the game"? A sense of accomplishment? Bragging rights? Having "the best" character? Or an in-character reason?

That's...actually a very good question....I just find it fun.

I like completing things. I like taking the extra time to 100% a game. It gives me a sense of accomplishment.

Bragging rights no...I have better things to do then assume this would impress anyone.

"Best character"...I doubt it, Maria's actually rather mundane. Her only defining trait really being her lofty goals, and personality that would fit more in Girl Genius.

In-character reason....like I said, ONE philosopher's stone, over ALL OF HISTORY. She isn't going to discover how to make one with poor grades. And her long-term goal is likely going to be impossible to accomplish over a normal lifespan. She needs the stone, so she can become immortal and get extra time!

Jay R
2012-12-02, 09:35 AM
In Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, If Hermione hadn't tried to do this, they would never have been able to save Buckbeak and Sirius.

So, yes, it's legitimate.

In general, yes, it's OK to try to enjoy playing a game, differently from anybody else's enjoyment, as long as you don't interfere with other people's enjoyment.

In SCA fencing, some people want to study and train hard to win, others want to enjoy the exercise and cameraderie, and others want to study 16th century fencing techniques. But we can all fence together.

You can ignore the Quiddich; you can't play football on the Quiddich field.

The Dark Fiddler
2012-12-02, 11:22 AM
I never bought into the stormwind fallacy. It is possible to have a reasonably strong build and still roleplay well, but the higher you go up on optimization the fewer options you have. A good balance is to go most of the way up and yet still have 1,000 roleplay options.

That's why it's called the Stormwind Fallacy; it's flawed logic.

NikitaDarkstar
2012-12-02, 12:14 PM
In-character reason....like I said, ONE philosopher's stone, over ALL OF HISTORY. She isn't going to discover how to make one with poor grades. And her long-term goal is likely going to be impossible to accomplish over a normal lifespan. She needs the stone, so she can become immortal and get extra time!

There was only one reply in the thread when I started to type mine, so I didn't see it until I was done. :p (And yes I'm a slow, slow typer, I know. :D)