Quest to destroy the Deck of Many Things

[daemonaetea]

This advice isn't so much for the immediate future as planning things out. One of the possible plotlines my characters will be able to pursue is freeing the Big Bad of my campaign from the influence that changed him into the Chaotic Evil monster he is today. Unfortunately for them that influence is the Justice card from the Deck of Many Things. As such I'm ruling the only way to break the card's influence would be to destroy the Deck of Many Things itself.

I'm looking for advice on an appropriate quest to destroy the Deck. I've got one idea myself (spoilered below), but would quite appreciate alternatives.

As always, thanks in advance for any help.


Within my campaign the Deck of Many Things is an artifact of pure Chaos. My initial idea for the quest was that, to destroy Chaos incarnate they'd have to introduce it to Law incarnate. Such an action would destroy both items. And the most powerful artifact of Law known throughout the planes is the Pact Infernal. All they would have to do is to break into the 9th Layer of Hell, infiltrate the Hall of Records where the Pact is kept, and place the Deck of Many Things atop it. This would both act as an appropriately epic end to the campaign, and setup an obvious plot hook (destroying the Pact Infernal may have bad consequences...) if they wished to continue playing their characters. Still, this was just my first idea, and I would really love to see some from others.

[Eldan]

Hm. My first idea when I read the title was that they'd have to destroy each card separately. That there was one method that worked on every card.

Of course, to find out what method to use next, you'd have to draw the card...

[daemonaetea]

Hm. My first idea when I read the title was that they'd have to destroy each card separately. That there was one method that worked on every card.

Of course, to find out what method to use next, you'd have to draw the card...

Ha, yes, I actually thought of making them destroy that specific card, but it brought up the problem of having to draw the card first... All in all that seemed to be a little too evil a thing to do to them.

[mattie_p]

Sphere of Annihilation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#sphereofAnnihilation)? Too obvious?

[Larkas]

Sphere of Annihilation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#sphereofAnnihilation)? Too obvious?

Sphere of Annihilation + Rod of Cancellation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#cancellation), otherwise the Deck might come back?

[Darrin]

After I got Green Ronin's Deck of Many Things (http://www.greenronin.com/store/product/grr3004.html), I've been noodling around an idea where the PCs are sent into a castle to retrieve this artifact, but it turns out that each room in the castle corresponds to a specific card.

For example:

The Skull room features a dread wraith, possibly with a chessboard. Defeat the dread wraith, you get the card for that room.

The Euryale features a medusa that curses the players, or if they kill her without asking her about the rest of the castle, they get the permanent curse.

The Fates would have three hags that will let one of the PCs bargain for some sort of retcon or "reversal of fate" token.

Falling afoul of some of the castle residents/puzzles might land the PCs in the Donjon, with a few typical methods to get out of there ("No no, you said 'wet shirt no break', not 'piss shirt bend bars!'").

And so forth. Either the PCs figure out the layout of the castle, and thus "Choose" their card that way, or they have to assemble the entire deck before they are allowed to draw. For your quest to destroy the DoMT... I'd say they have to assemble all the cards except the Void, find the room that contains the Void (e.g., the time-honored sphere of annihilation), and then throw in the cards while avoiding getting themselves thrown in.

This of course causes the entire castle to start to implode as it gets sucked into the sphere. I would then pull out an egg-timer, set it on the table, and tell the PCs to very quickly describe how they plan to get out before the time runs out.

(My other idea involves breaking into a Wizards Tower on a coastline somewhere, locating the fabled "lost card" of the DoMT, which turns out to be some ripped up paper confetti of a Chaos Orb card. Sprinkle the confetti on the DoMT, and *poof*, it gets Permanently Removed From Play.)

[Andezzar]

Sorry for cutting this short, but couldn't the PCs simply throw the deck into a fire. I'm not aware that wondrous items or artifacts have any special resistance aboive and beyond what the mundane item had.

[Darrin]

Sorry for cutting this short, but couldn't the PCs simply throw the deck into a fire. I'm not aware that wondrous items or artifacts have any special resistance aboive and beyond what the mundane item had.

Technically, you're correct: major artifacts "are not easily destroyed" and "should have only a single, specific means of destruction" per the DMG. The DoMT is a minor artifact, and there's no specific language in the DMG as far as how easy they are to destroy.

However, most players and DMs take it as a given that any artifact is probably going to be nearly indestructible unless you find the correct "Mount Doom".

[Lapak]

I always thought that the obvious way to destroy the Deck forever involves pure chance, just like the Deck does. It's simple, straightforward, and unbelievably dangerous.

To permanently destroy the Deck of Many Things, a character must draw the entire Deck - that is, they must announce their intent to draw 22 cards, and then succeed in doing so.

Note that to succeed in this, the character MUST draw Fate before drawing either Donjon or the Void, play it to prevent one of them, then draw the other of the 'terrible thing happens, draw no more cards' as the 22nd and final card.

Oh, and they also have to deal with the Dread Wraith, an alignment flip, friends betraying them, and so on before they finish. And, depending on the order in which they draw cards, they may have to face these lesser threats without mundane or magical equipment.

[nedz]

Surely they just need to draw Talons

Talons

When this card is drawn, every magic item owned or possessed by the character is instantly and irrevocably gone.

Alternative just cast Apocalypse from the Sky — and use the Deck as the material component.

[The Redwolf]

Well, the Pathfinder method for destroying it is to lose it in a wager with a deity of law who is unaware of the deck's nature, that could be a fun plot hook since they'd have to gamble with a god and keep them ignorant about what the deck is.:smallsmile:

[Andezzar]

However, most players and DMs take it as a given that any artifact is probably going to be nearly indestructible unless you find the correct "Mount Doom".Interesting. I play more Shadowrun than D&D, where those few "magic items" that do exist, are no more resilient thant their mundane counterparts.

Going with the plot from the OP, I wouldn't make destroying the deck a major plot line. Finding the right deck would be my choice of plot. AFAIK minor artifacts are not unique.


To permanently destroy the Deck of Many Things, a character must draw the entire Deck - that is, they must announce their intent to draw 22 cards, and then succeed in doing so.Where is this line from?

[Studoku]

To permanently destroy the Deck of Many Things, a character must draw the entire Deck - that is, they must announce their intent to draw 22 cards, and then succeed in doing so.
Do you have a source for this. This suggests otherwise:


Each time a card is taken from the deck, it is replaced (making it possible to draw the same card twice) unless the draw is the jester or the fool, in which case the card is discarded from the pack.

[Slipperychicken]

To permanently destroy the Deck of Many Things, a character must draw the entire Deck - that is, they must announce their intent to draw 22 cards, and then succeed in doing so.

Dominate/Mindrape a bunch of summons or mind-controlled minions to do it. It'll take a while, but you'll get it done eventually.


You might even be able to collect cash/valuables dropped from the summons, just command them to put the valuables down or give them to you first :smallbiggrin:

[Traab]

I kind of like the idea of drawing and having to destroy each card one at a time. Each card requires a different quest to find its opposite energy that will obliterate them both. Have it so the bbeg basically merged with the deck, gaining all sorts of boosts and such from it. Every card you destroy removes one of his unbelievable bonuses. Eventually he will be weak enough to destroy, or you will destroy the last card, the justice card, and free him from his curse.

[tyckspoon]

Do you have a source for this. This suggests otherwise:

I think it was just a suggestion, but it sounds like a pretty good one to me. Would fit in with the old AD&D books of artifacts, which included suggestions for quests/means of destroying the items; "Survive drawing the entire Deck" seems like a perfectly reasonable way of dissipating the magic of a Deck of Many Things, and much less anti-climactic than just throwing it in a fire or taking your +3 Adamantine sword and chopping it in half.

[Emperor Tippy]

Give it to a level 1 commoner, cast Unname on him. That can get rid of even major artifacts.

[ericgrau]

Technically, you're correct: major artifacts "are not easily destroyed" and "should have only a single, specific means of destruction" per the DMG. The DoMT is a minor artifact, and there's no specific language in the DMG as far as how easy they are to destroy.

However, most players and DMs take it as a given that any artifact is probably going to be nearly indestructible unless you find the correct "Mount Doom".

A mordenkain's disjunction can destroy an artifact with a chance of permanently eliminating the caster's spellcasting ability and possibly pissing off a deity. Specific trumps general so major artifacts are exempt by the single method of destruction statement. That leaves minor artifacts, which I presume can be disjunctioned.

All this does seem to strongly imply that you can't just burn a minor artifact though.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yea, MDJ is the easy way out here. Being a minor artifact, you've got a decent shot of getting rid of it, at the possible risk of losing all spells. Fortunately, you can hire someone to do it for you.

[Razanir]

Well, the Pathfinder method for destroying it is to lose it in a wager with a deity of law who is unaware of the deck's nature, that could be a fun plot hook since they'd have to gamble with a god and keep them ignorant about what the deck is.:smallsmile:

An alternate method I'd accept. Beat them in a game of chicken with the deck :smallamused:

[Lapak]

I think it was just a suggestion, but it sounds like a pretty good one to me. Would fit in with the old AD&D books of artifacts, which included suggestions for quests/means of destroying the items; "Survive drawing the entire Deck" seems like a perfectly reasonable way of dissipating the magic of a Deck of Many Things, and much less anti-climactic than just throwing it in a fire or taking your +3 Adamantine sword and chopping it in half.This was indeed just a suggestion; if it had been a quote from something I would have put it in a quote box. :smalltongue:

[Arcanist]

The only way to destroy the Artifact is by bathing it in the tears of 1,000 mothers who had there Sons (not daughters) returned to life.

For more ridiculous methods of purifying or destroying Artifacts, please look through the artifact section of the Book of Vile Darkness Exalted Deeds. It's the one on the 2nd shelf with the Demon Angel wing on it. :smallbiggrin:

[nedz]

Naah — You just need to draw a flush.

[Arcanist]

Pathfinder suggested losing it as a wager in a game of chance with a deity of Law who does not know the nature of the deck.

Does Pathfinder have Divine rules?

[Slipperychicken]

Does Pathfinder have Divine rules?

Well, all the gods in 3.5 had skill checks int the 50s-70s range, or ought to have advisors/worshipers who would have brought it up. So it's pretty much guaranteed they'd know about it.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, all the gods in 3.5 had skill checks int the 50s-70s range, or ought to have advisors/worshipers who would have brought it up. So it's pretty much guaranteed they'd know about it.

Yea, but Salient Divine Knowledge ought to make this an impossible task

[Arcanist]

Yea, but Salient Divine Knowledge ought to make this an impossible task


Not all Gods are Bards and Loremasters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#trueKnowledge) and more importantly, Not all Gods are Greater Deities.

Get a Lawful Hero Deity - Lesser Deity play you in a card game where he is the dealer. :smallamused:

[Flickerdart]

Why would a god take a random deck of cards as the reward for winning a bet? If you want to gamble it away to a lawful deity, you need not only hide the deck's nature from them, but also convince them it's some other highly valuable artifact. Also, you will need to convince a lawful deity to gamble, which in itself is a monumental task. You would be better served with a trade.

[Steward]

I really like the castle with each room corresponding to a given card, and the one where you have to draw all of the cards and survive to destroy it. I would probably tinker with the latter scenario to make sure that the players can't just use a summoned minion or slave to do it though; I feel like that kind of draws all the challenge out of it!

[Arcanist]

Why would a god take a random deck of cards as the reward for winning a bet? If you want to gamble it away to a lawful deity, you need not only hide the deck's nature from them, but also convince them it's some other highly valuable artifact. Also, you will need to convince a lawful deity to gamble, which in itself is a monumental task. You would be better served with a trade.

Don't even have to Gamble with the Deity. You can line the backs of the cards with lead and mix them into a standard poker deck (pretty logical considering that a guy with a ring of X-ray vision could just walk into a Casino and clean house). Or you can ask the Deity to perform a Tarot reading for you using your own deck because you are a paranoid little Wizard.

You just gotta get him/her to draw all 27 cards. Hell, play him in War (the card game). Now I know what you're thinking "Why would a God(dess) waste time playing card games with a mortal?" the simple answer? "Because they can."

[Sith_Happens]

Hm. My first idea when I read the title was that they'd have to destroy each card separately. That there was one method that worked on every card.

Of course, to find out what method to use next, you'd have to draw the card...


I kind of like the idea of drawing and having to destroy each card one at a time. Each card requires a different quest to find its opposite energy that will obliterate them both. Have it so the bbeg basically merged with the deck, gaining all sorts of boosts and such from it. Every card you destroy removes one of his unbelievable bonuses. Eventually he will be weak enough to destroy, or you will destroy the last card, the justice card, and free him from his curse.

I also like this idea, if only because it's basically Cardcaptor Sakura in reverse.:smallbiggrin:

[doko239]

Draw cards from the deck until you draw the Moon card. Use your Wish to wish that you had never drawn any cards from the deck. POOF, the deck is destroyed in a knot of logical paradox. :smallbiggrin:

[Slipperychicken]

Draw every card while inside an Antimagic Field.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Draw every card while inside an Antimagic Field.

Artifacts can ignore an AMF.

[TuggyNE]

Draw cards from the deck until you draw the Moon card. Use your Wish to wish that you had never drawn any cards from the deck. POOF, the deck is destroyed in a knot of logical paradox. :smallbiggrin:

Unfortunately, that's outside the safe list, and can (and will) be twisted horribly.

[nedz]

Draw cards from the deck until you draw the Moon card. Use your Wish to wish that you had never drawn any cards from the deck. POOF, the deck is destroyed in a knot of logical paradox. :smallbiggrin:Unfortunately, that's outside the safe list, and can (and will) be twisted horribly.

IF you live long enough.

[daemonaetea]

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions.

First, I had forgotten the Deck was a minor artifact. For the purposes of my game it will be treated as a Major artifact.

The Sphere was a good one. However, I feel the major focus of using it would be in where it's kept, rather than in the Sphere itself, which isn't quite the focus I'm looking for.

Drawing all the cards seems a little too chaotic in it's implementation to provide a good final session. I'd just hate for all this buildup to take place only for the first couple of draws to completely screw over the players and make the rest of the session just them sitting around trying to figure out what they're gonna do now. If my player's were stronger optimizers, and I was more confident in their ability to prepare and handle all of the cards, it would be great. I just don't feel they're there.

Of all the ideas that have been presented, the idea of a series of rooms thematically connected to the Deck is the one I like best. I feel that would provide the most fun and climactic session. However, it does feel appropriate to put some amount of chance into the castle. As such I'm thinking of the entirety of the castle seeming to consist of a single room, with a small table and a door that opens into nothingness. Until you draw a card from the small deck on that table which causes a symbol to appear on the nearby door. Thus the Castle of Many Things can't be navigated purposely, but must be done by chance. Another card can't be chosen until all present enter the room and deal with whatever lies within it. Once they finally enter the Justice room they'll have to fight shadow versions of themselves; anyone that loses the fight will be possessed by their evil opposite. Once that is done they'll possess the Justice card, and all they'll have to do then is to get the Big Bad to take it into his hand, reversing the damage it caused the first time it was drawn.

Thanks again for your help.

[Dragodar]

I always thought that the obvious way to destroy the Deck forever involves pure chance, just like the Deck does. It's simple, straightforward, and unbelievably dangerous.

To permanently destroy the Deck of Many Things, a character must draw the entire Deck - that is, they must announce their intent to draw 22 cards, and then succeed in doing so.

Note that to succeed in this, the character MUST draw Fate before drawing either Donjon or the Void, play it to prevent one of them, then draw the other of the 'terrible thing happens, draw no more cards' as the 22nd and final card.

Oh, and they also have to deal with the Dread Wraith, an alignment flip, friends betraying them, and so on before they finish. And, depending on the order in which they draw cards, they may have to face these lesser threats without mundane or magical equipment.

There are 1,124,000,727,777,607,680,000 (that's over one sextillion) possible permutations for a 22 card deck, and the situation you've described (with one of two cards needing to be at the end and the other of the two cards needing to be preceded by a specified other card) could only occur, out of those sextillion plus combinations, a number of times equal to the square root of 2,432,902,008,176,640,000 (2 quintillion) which ends up being about 1,559,776,269 or 1.5 billion.

1.5 billion over 1 sextillion is such a small number that most calculators will just tell you it is 0. So the probability of destroying the Deck according to your method is, for all intents and purposes, zero. Which means the Deck is immortal. Which seems unfun.

EDIT: oh shoot, i was getting really into this thread and only just now looked at the dates on it. sorry for the necro posting everybody

[Andezzar]

Is there anything in the rules for the deck preventing you from simply burning the deck? AFAIK outside of magic arms and armor magical items are no more resistant to damage than their mundane counterparts.

[Nifft]

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions.

First, I had forgotten the Deck was a minor artifact. For the purposes of my game it will be treated as a Major artifact.

The Sphere was a good one. However, I feel the major focus of using it would be in where it's kept, rather than in the Sphere itself, which isn't quite the focus I'm looking for.

Drawing all the cards seems a little too chaotic in it's implementation to provide a good final session. I'd just hate for all this buildup to take place only for the first couple of draws to completely screw over the players and make the rest of the session just them sitting around trying to figure out what they're gonna do now. If my player's were stronger optimizers, and I was more confident in their ability to prepare and handle all of the cards, it would be great. I just don't feel they're there.

Of all the ideas that have been presented, the idea of a series of rooms thematically connected to the Deck is the one I like best. I feel that would provide the most fun and climactic session. However, it does feel appropriate to put some amount of chance into the castle. As such I'm thinking of the entirety of the castle seeming to consist of a single room, with a small table and a door that opens into nothingness. Until you draw a card from the small deck on that table which causes a symbol to appear on the nearby door. Thus the Castle of Many Things can't be navigated purposely, but must be done by chance. Another card can't be chosen until all present enter the room and deal with whatever lies within it. Once they finally enter the Justice room they'll have to fight shadow versions of themselves; anyone that loses the fight will be possessed by their evil opposite. Once that is done they'll possess the Justice card, and all they'll have to do then is to get the Big Bad to take it into his hand, reversing the damage it caused the first time it was drawn.

Thanks again for your help.

One last idea...

There is a major artifact known as the Staff of Law, which has been broken... into seven parts. Its other name is the Rod of Seven Parts.

The PCs just need to re-assemble the Rod of Seven Parts and use it to destroy the Deck of Many Things.

Clearly the Deck was just a front for Miska to vent evil chaos into the world, so the mutual destruction of the Staff and the Deck will serve to destroy the last vestige of Miska as well.

... and the quest to destroy the Deck is reduced to a previously solved problem (http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_tourneys_r7-10.html).

[Roland St. Jude]

...EDIT: oh shoot, i was getting really into this thread and only just now looked at the dates on it. sorry for the necro posting everybody
Sheriff: Yes, please don't do that. Thread necromancy is disfavored here.