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Thanqol
2012-12-02, 06:30 PM
Now conquering Rome doth conquered Rome inter,
And she the vanquished is, and vanquisher.
To show us where she stood there rests alone
Tiber; and that too hastens to be gone.
Learn, hence what fortune can. Towns glide away;
And rivers, which are still in motion, stay.

- Joachim du Bellay



Skyscraper Graveyard

A chronicle of Mage: The Awakening

OOC Thread 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247130)
OOC Thread 2: Jealousy and Ambition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256765)
OOC Thread 3: A Sword On His Back (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263257)
OOC Thread 4: Lack Of Data (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285428)
OOC Thread 5: Gradually, Then Suddenly (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303616)

IC Thread 1: Renaissance City (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249134)
IC Thread 2: Simple Choices (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265809)
IC Thread 3: THIS IS YOUR GOD (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307506)

Notes and Schedules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14326422&postcount=16)

STARRING:

Anarion as Tessen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14316138&postcount=2)
The Druid Droid as Turing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14320297&postcount=5)
Deadly as Amun Ra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14319264&postcount=4)
Tiki Snakes as Jack of Hearts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14319043&postcount=3)

Soundtrack:
Sunspots (http://youtu.be/mTGgPrqza54)
Silvertown (http://youtu.be/mTGgPrqza54)
The Sole Regret (http://youtu.be/AKf5Cc2EGv0)
Reign (At The Top Of The World) (http://heylasfas.bandcamp.com/track/reign-at-the-top-of-the-world)
Brother, Can You Spare A Dime? (http://youtu.be/CVE72Ae82Tw)
To The Beginning (http://youtu.be/wAJDVRDhBH8)
Mindlock (http://youtu.be/6sPOKzqLbxE)
Labyrinth (http://youtu.be/hqfEVv8otr8)

NPC Cabals:
The Arsenal of Democracy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13452789&postcount=55)
The Quiet (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13458126&postcount=70)
Speakeasy Society (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13463018&postcount=75)
General Malcom's Irregulars (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13464181&postcount=77)
The T-Street Crew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13487171&postcount=97)
The Old Secret (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13487258&postcount=98)

Seer Dossiers:
Cyprus, the Golden Gloved Archon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13513757&postcount=204)
The Ieiunium Ministry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13683908&postcount=782)

Game Rules:

If Detroit has one thing in abundance, it's space. The group receives a free two dots of Sanctum Space and one dot of Sanctum Security. The fifth dot of either does not cost the usual double for merit points. A space five Sanctum nets you an entire abandoned skyscraper or hotel.

- 35 starting XP. You are not chumps.
- No buying gnosis with merit dots. Completely skews the XP scale
- No fighting styles. They make the game break in unpredictable ways.
- Willpower does not regain through rest. The only way to regain willpower is through indulging your virtue or your vice in a way that harms your interests. WoD is in many ways a game about screwing yourself over.
- Soaking a Paradox with health levels deals Lethal and not Bashing damage.
- Losing wisdom due to degeneration during the course of play grants 5XP, identical to dropping wisdom at character creation. Ideally, there should be no incentive to start out crazy, aside from the natural player incentive to start out crazy. This XP is not shared with the group and will only be for that character.
- Make sure you keep note of what ongoing active spells you have. I'll give you first impressions based on what perception spells you have active, including the area's primary resonance. It's always possible to look deeper as a Mage, though, though this requires a specific roll or a full ritual.
- Feel free to constantly ask questions. Information is power and asking is free.
- Supernatural entities may apply their Defence against bullets while within the bounds of a demesne.
- The potency of non-scaling spells is equal to the number of dots in the primary arcanum of the spell used to cast it. You have Prime 4? Your Prime mage armour and mage sight have a potency of 4. You're out of combat? You can activate them without rolling.


Posting and character rules (Stole'd from Anarion in the cycle of theft)
• Please try to post at least once per day. Even if your character has nothing to say at the moment, an OOC post saying, “I’m here, I’m reading, keep going” is extremely helpful.
• If you miss a day, we’ll try to slow down so you can catch up, but some events may happen without your character’s input.
• If you can’t be located after 3 days, your character will continue to accompany the party and fade into the background. To the extent the character can meaningfully assist the party, the players can ask for skills from that character and roll the dice for him/her. Control will immediately revert to you upon your return.
• If you know of any long absences in the future, please let us all know. I’ll do my best to make sure the character can conveniently be on vacation and can prepare several plans in advance for how to assist the party in his/her absence.
• There’s no maximum post limit. If I’m not online you can do all the secret planning you want or continue IC conversations on any topic.
• If the group splits up, I’ll do multiple threads. I may also do individual player info

Forces 5 houserules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14690530&postcount=712)

Anarion
2012-12-03, 02:28 AM
Alina White

Character Sheet
Alina White
Shadow Name: Tessen (鉄線) (Means both steel wire, and a type of Chinese flower)

Concept: A timid girl who awoke to the power to change the world.
Quote: I don’t know why I was chosen, but I’m something greater now. It…it would be wrong not to help people wake up.
Path: Obrimos
Order: Silver Ladder
Songs: "Believe in Myself" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBNq1jZOuRg)
Jewel-"Hands" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfsS3pIDBfw&feature=youtu.be)

Virtue: Justice Vice: Sloth

Unspent XP: 3 regular, 0 political, 3 arcane.

Active Spells
Prime Sight, forces sight, prime shield on person

Attributes
Physical: strength +/ dexterity +++/ stamina +++
Mental: intelligence ++++/wits ++/ resolve +++
Social: presence +/ manipulation ++/ composure +++

Skills
Academics ++ (Western Literature)
Computer ++
Crafts +
Investigation +++
Medicine
Occult ++++ (Magic)
Politics
Science

Athletics +++
Brawl
Drive +
Firearms +
Larceny
Stealth ++
Survival
Weaponry

Animal Ken
Empathy +
Expression ++ (Imitation)
Intimidation
Persuasion
Socialize
Streetwise +
Subterfuge

Merits:
Artifact ++++
Fated pocketbook: This is about a half-size book of blank pages, small enough to fit into a purse or large pants pocket. Whenever the user writes information about a person or thing into the pocketbook (this could be anything from jotting down a phone number to a diary entry) it imparts to the writer at least one theme or connection to other people or things related to the subject of the writing. More paper can be added to it without ruining the magic.
Spell: interconnections (fate 1), contingent activated on writing. Add hoc +1 for no chance of failure and no limitation to types of connections, but added limitation to only one connection at storyteller discretion. Total mana: 11. Regenerates 4 mana per day.

Striking looks ++

Sanctum ++ (contributed towards joint skyscraper sanctum).

High Speech +

Abyssal Fractures +

Status (Silver Ladder) +

Advantages
Defense: 2
Health: 8
Initiative: 6
Size: 5
Speed: 9
Willpower: 3/6

Damage: [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

Flaw
Coward
Abyss-marked: +1 success required for supernal summoning, +1 die to all paradox rolls, -2 penalty to hide from abyssal creatures.

Wizard Traits
Gnosis: 2
Wisdom: 7
Arcana: forces 4, time 2, prime 1, spirit 1
Mana: 9/12

Rotes
Read Matrices (Forces 1): Wits+Occult+Forces 10 dice
Control Heat (Forces 2): Intelligence+Occult+Forces 12 dice
Transmission (Forces 2): Manipulation+Expression+Forces+1 (Silver Ladder rote specialty) 9 dice
Dispel Magic (Prime 1): Intelligence+Occult+Prime vs. Spell potency 9 dice
Perfect Timing (Time 1): Intelligence+Composure+Time 9 dice
Postcognition (Time 2): Intelligence+Investigation+Time 9 dice

Magical Tools (descriptions stolen from Thanqol in the continuous cycle of thievery)
Cup (Creative power): Combination pen/laser pointer pen side. Tends to play with it around her fingers, which she started doing the first day she ever had to teach. Related to nerves about whether she could actually impart knowledge to anyone.
Sword (Directed Power): Lecturing/scolding. Since teaching, being in the position of directly telling someone what to do or what not to do is Alina's most effective way of asserting her will against others.
Staff (Authority/General Power): Hair ornaments (specific ornament varies each day). Tends to reach up and touch them for reassurance. Goes back to receiving a first one as a little girl, which is totally a thing I will write about at some point that isn’t right now.
Mirror (Reflections/echoes): An actual mirror, pink, from a small makeup kit. Will take it out and look at it when in use.
Coin (Cycles of power): Small golden watch. Always stares intently at the time if using in casting. Received as a gift from her parents when she left for college.

Phoenix's Rebirth: A gold necklace with a pendant showing a red-gold phoenix arising from a pile of ashes, a sunburst at its back. Worn outside her blouse or sweater. +1 max mana

Assorted possessions of note: Pistol, Taser, latest model 2015 iPhone, low quality radio transmitter, cheap computer, toolkit (in skyscraper). Assorted leftover electrical wire, tape, cleaning supplies, matches.


Description
Alina is a Caucasian girl of mixed Irish and Germanic descent. She's Protestant by birth, but was basically Deist until her awakening (she used to love the idea of God as a clockmaker). Now she's agnostic.

Alina has long red hair that falls below her shoulders, which she usually wears loose, but might put in a ponytail if she expects a lot of physical exertion. It's a striking features and the thing most people remember her by. She always, always wears a hair ornament. It can vary exactly what it is, and she actually has a collection of many of them, which she switches out each day. She tends to reach up and touch them when she's nervous. She also has green eyes and a roundish face with just a hint of faint freckles. She tends to turn away a bit when she smiles and blushes easily.

Alina is quite short, barely topping 5 feet tall, and has always had a slim figure and been in pretty good shape. She runs for exercise and eats a great deal more than most people would expect of a petite, 5-foot tall girl, though considering she weighs barely 100 lbs, nobody is quite sure where all that food goes.

Her clothing is a mix of dressy and casual. In college she mostly wore denim jeans and colorful blouses, often in blues and purples to make her hair stand out more. As a teacher she tried to dress more nicely and switched between pants suits and blouse+skirt combinations in more subdued colors such as white, grey, and black. Since awakening, she's found that she really likes bright purples, bright reds, and gold.

Nimbus: When Alina casts a vulgar spell, she and everything around her acquires a soft glow, like the rays of dawn falling upon a hilltop. With more powerful magic, there is also birdsong and any objects near her start to look sturdier and cleaner. If Alina's nimbus is subtly uncloaked, it makes her look especially hale and brings a ruddy color to her face. When being uncloaked during a vice, this healthiness comes across as looking holier-than-thou, while uncloaking during a virtue looks supernaturally beautiful

Mage sight: Tessen's forces sight is sorta like the x-ray visor in Metroid Prime. Google it if you've never played that game. Basically can see through things. Flows of energy appear as moving particles that obviously stand out against the background. Her eyes probably glow a bit blue when this is happening.

Tessens' prime sight is visual and tactile. She actually sees and feels threads of existence and, when manipulating them, will almost literally weave or unravel them (think Wheel of Time Aes Sedai if you've read that).

Background

Early History
Alina was born in Michigan, from one of the more distant Detroit suburbs. Her Dad, Burke White, managed a local clothing store and her Mom, Marta was an old-fashioned stay-at-home type. They weren't massively wealthy, but Alina never found herself wanting and her parents had a lot of time and attention to devote to her. She does have a younger sister, named Jennifer White, but her parents decided to space out their kids and her younger sister is only 14 now and just starting high school out in the suburbs.

Marta's side of the family actually descend from Austria. Alina's grandmother, Klara Engel, left the country during World War II prior to the German Anschlauss. She met Alina's grandfather, Ryan Rogers, in New York while he was on leave from the navy, and they ended up settling in Michigan after the war ended, where Ryan worked as a mechanic and soon moved to the suburbs to raise his kids in a 1950s idyllic setting. The White side of the family was in America longer. One of Alina's great-grandparents had been a banker, but lost his fortune in the 1929 crash and jumped out of a 45 story window, leaving his wife and 3 sons to fend for themselves. One of Alina's great uncles died in the war, the other one has a family out in Arizona somewhere that never comes to visit, and her grandpa, Harold White, settled in Detroit and started working in sales, which passed down to his son, Burke.

Alina attended University of Michigan where she majored in English literature. She also took on a fair amount of debt, and, because she cared about doing some good with her education and wanted her debt forgiven, she joined the Teach for America program that sends young college grads to teach in inner city public schools. And they sent her to Detroit because she's almost local and they thought she might do okay there.

Awakening
The Detroit schools were bad. Alina doesn't like to talk about them much, but after awakening, she knows that they were being controlled by the Scelesti. She taught a high school English class, but the lessons were so scattered and broken, it jumped from Shakespeare to teaching them their ABCs. And every day it seemed like they were a little more listless, a little more broken, a little more gray. Being in that system slowly beat the life out of you, until it was all you could do to get up in the morning, put on your clothes, and show up just long enough to remember how miserable and pointless life was.

Maybe that's why, when she found out a student of hers was mixing molotav cocktails in his garage, she didn't report him. And maybe that's why, when she was driving home, and she saw a fire at the apartment building where he lived, she decided to get out of the car and go help.

She had never done anything like that before. Most of her was screaming to call 911, to wait for the proper authorities, to get back in the car and drive away. But there was a small part, an insistent little voice that said "you have to go in there, you can make a difference. That's why you're here, right?" So, that's why she walked into hell even though her whole being just wanted to curl up and cry and close her eyes until the bad things went away.

Once she took a step through the threshold, everything was different. This was no regular fire, this was dragon fire. And there was the dragon. Over 30 feet tall, and perched amidst the wreckage of the building. Wicked black claws and red eyes seething with hatred, while it lazily flapped its wings to fan the flames. She tried to keep to the side of the building. Fires blazed in several spots and she thought maybe in the glare it wouldn't notice her. She could find anyone left inside and get them out. Quiet as a mouse. Yeah, that was good enough to get her to the stairs. Only they weren't stairs, it was a cave with an ascending ramp twisting back in on itself, and there was the corpse of the last knight who had tried this route, burnt and blackened, his shield nothing but a lump of slag.

She kept climbing, and tried to call out if anyone was still alive. It came out more like Is, is anyone still there? And she rounded a corner and was on a higher floor. Or, no it was a pinnacle of rock and the dragon was about to lie down atop its treasure pile, surrounded by its flames. But when she came out, some embers slipped and fell from the edge, and they landed. They clacked. And that hateful red eye opened up wide and looked right at her. A neck craned, wings beat and she couldn't move, she couldn't think, she couldn't do anything. It opened its mouth to breath a gout of flame and she turned her head and put up her hand up next to her hair to shield herself, where she felt the hair clip that she'd put on that morning.

That was funny, she was wearing a snowflake, in the middle of hell.

And then she wasn't in hell anymore. She wasn't sure where she was because there was still fire. And lightning playing across the sky. But it was her fire, it moved with her and guided her. Straight ahead to a golden watchtower, a shining beacon in the darkness. That was the easiest walk she ever took in her life. Because for a few moments she was filled with absolute certainty. She was going to be okay, she had done the right thing, and should always would do the right thing. She walked up to that tower and there was a space on the wall pulsing with a warm glow, just waiting for her to inscribe her name. She wrote it in her most precise and delicate cursive, a beautiful, careful script. And then she was back in the building, and there was no dragon, but there was a gout of flame from a falling timber. Only, she waved her hand and it didn't come towards her, and it wasn't all that hot.

She was still careful. She climbed up the steps and cleared out a path so she could get back easily. And when she found the student, and his younger brother, and their next door neighbors still alive, she escorted them out that safe path, crawling to stay below the smoke until they got back down, and walking out of the building. She noticed, idly, that the fire department still hadn't arrived, but given the state of the city, she wasn't sure whether that meant much time had passed or not.

One thing she did know, as she got in her car and drove home to her little apartment: She wouldn't be going back to that gray waste they called a school.

Post-Awakening

Following her awakening, Alina sought out other mages. She wasn't sure exactly where to go, but she gave herself to the magic and let it guide her steps. She ended up at the Speakeasy Society, where a mellow jazz saxophone was playing. She walked in the door, and was immediatley confronted by a raving lunatic who seemed to be talking about exorcisms and the "spooky phantoms" (his words) that were all around her. Alina was relieved when a huge black woman reached out and pulled the lunatic away. This relief was short-lived when the huge black woman followed up by lifting Alina bodily into the air by the back of her sweater and demanding to know what the hell she thought she was doing just barging in like that. Alina's answer consisted mostly of squeaks, but she managed to get out that she had let fate and time guide her and that she was supposed to be here at this moment, for some reason.

The black woman looked her over, dropped her and turned to let the Saxophone set finish with the words "You're an Obrimos. Next time, you damn well tell fate and time to go **** themselves. Now get into the back room and we'll get started."

The next couple months were mostly a blur. To pretty much everyone's surprise, the tiny girl turned out to have a real talent with forces, manipulating heat, light, and sound, and even picking up the rudiments of controlling the weather and transforming one type of force into another. The best compliment she got was when Tyler Durden had to actually dodge out of the way when she realized Alina was building up a real thunderbolt. "Damn girl, if you'd shot that faster than a drunk hobo, you might have actually hurt something."

In addition to something of a whirlwind tour of the local consilium over that period, Alina also met two other mages who were recently awakened. Somehow, the three of them knew that they had a special sympathetic connection. They also came to realize that the phoenix, as a symbol of rebirth enhanced their mana if they wore its image. Since then Alina sold her car and her old public-school issue gun and chipped in the money to help buy space in an old skyscraper in order to establish a sanctum for her new cabal.

Relationships with other mages in Detroit

1. The Arsenal of Democracy

Alina generally dislikes this organization. She thinks that ignoring the problems in your own background to deal with some distant issue is pretty stupid and actually irresponsible. On top of that, making weapons for a major Sleeper war that isn't even happening when the backyard problem is the Scelesti just seems really stupid. As a result she despises Hiroshi. On the other hand, she really likes Firebee, who is one of the only legitimately smart people she's met here, and is a sorely needed companion since Alina's been out of college.

2. The Quiet

These are people that Alina can get behind. First, they're relatively forgiving of her teensy, tinsy bit of abyssal taint, which lets her relax a bit more around them. On top of that, they're actually doing something about abyssal manifestations and that's the kind of work Alina can get behind. Edelachtbare kind of intimidates Alina, but she has a deep respect and admiration for Errant, who she sees as sort of an older, sicker version of her ideal self.

3. The Speakeasy Society

The Speakeasy Society is a weird one for Alina. She joined The Silver Ladder because she wants to do her best to raise up everyone to enlightenment, and be there to help them even when they’re resisting it themselves. And she likes the idea of building up a new Detroit, restoring a few neighborhoods and working outwards. That’s doing good that she understands and can appreciate. On the other hand, every member of this organization drives her nuts. Johnny is the most reasonable, but he never does anything. Mirror Man just drives her crazy. And every time she sees Tyler she’s about ready to wet herself. On the other hand, she does think that Tyler is actually capable of accomplishing things and, despite her desire to avoid Tyler at all costs, she believes that these people will support her own goals to help the city.

4. General Malcom's Irregulars

Alina knows that the police are in the hands of the seers, so she’s not too upset that Malcom’s Irregulars are wanted men. However, she doesn’t like their methods at all. They’re breaking into people’s homes, doing what they want and attacking whoever they please. That’s not how you help people, and even if you do good, you can ruin it by making everyone hate you. She won’t confront them about it, but in her heart she thinks they’re working against the awakening of the masses. Of the membership, she has a little more respect Captain Rushaw, who seems like a legitimately good guy, and has a distaste for Corporal Hunter, who she thinks is just in it for the violence.

5. The T-street Crew

These guys are everything that’s wrong with trying to solve problems through violence. The Jerusalem Man deserves some respect because at least he managed to avoid hurting civilians. But how much longer is that one going to last? More likely that they'll just go off the deep end soon, and the rest of the mages will have to clean up the mess. These guys have power when it’s needed, but Alina would rather steer far clear of them if she can.

6. The Old Secret

Alina isn’t sure what to make of these people. She gets the sense that Luminoth knows more than she’s letting on, and Alina respects that maybe there’s a reason to keep that info back right now. And at least Luminoth is willing to listen, that’s worth something. The other two just don’t care about anyone though, and they don’t deserve any respect.

Specific People
Hates: Hilltop. Here’s the thing. Detroit has a lot of punks, gangs, idiots and so forth. They’ve got guns, they’ve got money, and they can’t all be saved, not even the ones that have awakened. But here, here’s someone with real talent, a gift from the realms supernal. And what does she do? She makes art so she can watch it decay and fall to ruin. That’s…that’s just unforgivable! Alina met her early on when Tyler Durden was giving Alina a tour of the city. Tyler laughed when a piece of the building fell apart, obliterating a beautiful white lily. And Hilltop laughed right with her. Alina stood there and cried silently, trying to keep the other two from noticing. Since then, Alina has tried to use a camera to preserve as many of the murals as she’s been able to find. And Hilltop has cussed her out twice for being a damn Obrimos always trying to make the ephemeral into her own damn order. Alina doesn’t care, but she is looking to buy a backup camera.

Loves: Errant. She’s so weak, but so powerful. And she’s doing good in a way that Alina can relate to. Not that Alina wants to end up that sick or anything, but being able to talk to a group that way, even in such a quiet voice, that would be something. If Alina could do that, could convince people to follow her like Errant, she could make a real difference. She could help wake up the sleepers, and stop the Scelesti, and make Detroit into something greater. For now, Alina can only help as much as she can.

Owes: Tyler Durden. As one of the few Silver Ladders in the city, and basically the only competent one, Tyler did actually show Alina around the city and introduce her to a lot of the other mages, as well as help with her training. Surprisingly, avoiding being smashed with a giant hammer is a good motivation for improving control over kinetic forces. Alina still wants to curl up into a ball and cry whenever Tyler comes calling for her, but if Tyler asks for something, Alina will do it.

Is owed by: Firebee. This was kind of a weird one, but when they met, the two of them really hit it off. Alina didn’t know much programming or anything, but she was actually capable of talking to Firebee as something close to an intellectual equal, and Firebee was interested in Alina’s knowledge of English literature because it was something so foreign to her regular work in tech and magic. Firebee was particularly interested in how the emotional impact of writing might let her use her mind magic to get into people’s heads, and when Alina offered to give Firebee her copy of Ernest Hemmingway’s “The Sun Also Rises,” Firebee was really touched. As long as the request isn’t too unreasonable, Firebee would be happy to repay the favor.

Has something Alina wants: Luminoth, and it’s information. Alina’s secondary discipline is time magic, and she thinks that if she could just get enough info to make a proper sympathetic connection, she could figure out what happened to this city. And figuring out what happened is the first step to healing it. Find the cause, and apply the proper forces to correct it, that’s the best way to solve a problem. But the woman is so cagey, and her cronies are insufferable. Alina is starting to get impatient with “next time” and “best not to talk about that.”

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-03, 06:13 PM
The Sheet below is archived. Click here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15745090&postcount=937) for the God-Machines updated Jack.

Jack of Hearts
Theme: Under Pressure (http://youtu.be/a01QQZyl-_I). Alt (http://youtu.be/d5nYX-iuUFk)

Keeping Track

Health
[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Mana
[+][+][+][+][+][+][+][+][+][+][+]
Willpower
[+][+][-][-][-]
Active Spells
Omnivision


Stats
Shadow Name - Jack of Hearts
Name - David Jones
Virtue - Hope
Vice - Lust

Acanthus / Free Council
(Aiming for House of Ariadne Legacy)

Attributes
Intelligence 2
Wits 4
Resolve 2

Strength 1
Dexterity 3
Stamina 2

Presence 3
Manipulation 3
Composure 3

Skills
Academics 1
Computers 1
Investigation 4
Occult 2

Athletics 2 (Speciality +1 Parkour)
Drive 1
Firearms 1
Survival 1 (Speciality +1 Urban Exploration)

Empathy 4
Expression 3 (Speciality +1 Ambient Music)
Pursuasion 2
Socialize 1
Streetwise 1

Merits
Resources 4
Hallow 3*
Direction Sense
High Speech 1

Advantages
Defense: 3
Health: 7
Initiative: 6
Size: 5
Speed: 9
Willpower: 543
Wizard Traits
Gnosis: 2
Wisdom: 7
Starting mana: 7/11

Arcana
Time 2
Fate 2
Space 3
Mind 1?

Rotes

Omnivision (Space 1): (dots) Wits+Composure+Space 9 Dice
Finder (Space 1): -2xp Intelligence+Investigation+Space 9 Dice
Spacial Map (Space 1): -2xp Intelligence+Occult+Space 7 Dice
Scrying (Space 2): (dots) Intelligence+Investigation+Space 9 Dice
Portal (Space 3): (dots) Presence+Investigation+Space 10 Dice

Temporal Eddies (Time 1): -2xp Wits+Investigation+Time 10 Dice
Augury (Time 2): -4xp Intelligence+Occult+Time 6 Dice
Postcognition (Time 2): -4xp Intelligence+Investigation+Time 8 Dice

Platonic Mechanism (Fate 2): -4xp Intelligence+Occult+Fate 6 Dice


Magical Tools

Sword (Directed Power) - Smartphone (Negating Distances, Finding, Capturing)
Worn but carefully maintained, Jack's phone has as many layers of symbolism for him as it does features. It allows him to ignore distances, allows him to seek out things and allows him to record impromptue performances as he roams abandoned skyscrapers or abandoned tunnels, capturing sights and sounds alike.

Cup (Creative power) - Bamboo Ocarina (Freedom, Creation, Improvisation)
A simple little pocket sized musical instrument, made from Bamboo. Lightweight and easy to stash about his person, the instrument symbolises the freedom to create whereever he finds himself.

Staff (Authority/General Power) - Tailored Suit (Opening Doors, Success, Protection)
Tailored and sharp, but made of stretchable modern materials to give decent freedom of movement. Often replaced, due to heavy and disrespectful wear.

Coin (Cycles of power) -Silver Pheonix Ring (Beginnings, Escape, Second Chances)
Made of sterling-silver and set with agates, this stylised Pheonix ring is worn on the ring-finger of the right hand, and represents the cycle of personal reinvention to Jack's mind, as well as signifying his escape to a new life.

Mirror (Reflections/echoes) - Wedding Ring pendant (The Past, Endings, Fate)
A simple golden wedding band, tied on a piece of leather cord and worn under his clothes, next to his skin and away from prying eyes. Holds a lot of personal meaning, signifying the weight of past decisions and things that had to end, as well as hidden things and shameful secrets.


Description
Jack of Hearts is of average height, with roughly slicked back short blonde hair and a faint tan, perhaps from time spent outside. He seems in shape, though more lithe more than anything. He moves comfortably and with some grace, his mannerisms relaxed and inoffensive. His eyes are grey. He smiles quickly and genuinely. He seems earnest in his endeavors and wears his emotions openly for the most part. He maintains a positive outlook and is generally open and polite with everyone he meets, regardless of their response.

Jack wears suits almost regardless of the task or the weather, favouring tailored suits in modern materials for their flexibility and breathability. He does wear them with a shirt and tie most of the time but even then still manages to look vaguely dischevelled all too often. He wears a silver ring shaped like a bird of some sort and rarely goes anywhere without a musical instrument, usually a small wooden Ocarina or similar instruments such as the Chinese Xun. He also carries a Ruger Mk2 Pistol (And his concealed pistol licence), though it's rarely if ever been used.

Nimbus: When Jack casts a Vulgar spell, background noise fades away, the wind stirs around him and leaves rustle bringing the distant scent of flowers. With more powerful magic, colours seem richer and surrounding objects appear momentarily ancient and wreathed in plantlife. If his nimbus is subtly uncloaked his voice cuts easily through background noise and faint scented breezes seem to waft by. When uncloaked during a Vice, his voice seems more intimate and the scents are strong and sweet. Uncloaking during a Vitue however brings the scent of fresh rain and spring blossoms.

Mage Sight (Temporal Eddies): Imagine the air around you. As the temperature changes and shifts it creates currents and eddies in the air, distorting light as it passes through it. It might seem to hover in doorways, or ripple across the surface of an object. Only it's not air, it's time stuff, clustering around objects and places where it is pulled thin or thickly accumulating.
Well it's nothing like that at all.



History

Early History
Jack grew up in the United Kingdom. He doesn't have a very strong regional accent, but it's hard to tell if that's just because he went to a good school or is down to something else. What is clear is that he lived in London for a while, before it all changed. Charming, confident and creative, the young man had no trouble finding a girl in the bustle of old London. He was young and seemed to have the world at his feet and she was swept away in the dance of it all. Soon enough they married, made to settle down and start a life together, but time can be cruel and it wasn't meant to last.

She came from a good family, wealthy members of the establishment and leading lights in the City. With help from her father, she was encouraged to establish a company of her own. Whilst she dove head-first into the world of business, Jack occupied himself with easier fare, tinkering around with music and art. Still, he was there for her when she was done for the day, but in time it began to strain their relationship.

As the business grew, it only got worse. Desperate to inspire some kind of work ethic in her apparently feckless husband, she roped him into her world, gave him a slice of the company and installed him on the board. It all seemed to be going so well, he took to it with the same gently exasperating ease with which he seemed to do everything, proving not just competant but even useful. It was great, a whole new start, that is until she caught him partying with an athletic young man from Human Resources.

Awakening
She hadn't even had the decency to throw his stuff out on the street, so the setting sun found our man Jack weeping like a baby as he walked the streets of London with nothing to his name but the suit on his back. He wandered aimlessly, pushing through crowds of strangers with unkind faces, letting the city guide his footsteps. The street-lights slowly spread out but he only noticed when stumbling with exhaustion and the wearyness of having ran out of tears he found himself in an old industrial corner of the City. Large, empty looking buildings with red bricks walls darkened to black with a century or more of pollution and filth surrounded him, the rough concrete of the work-yard cracked and split from age and disuse, thick bundles of unpleasant looking weeds forcing their way out from every fracture.

Desolate and feeling drained, he resigned himself to a night under the stars. Despite himself, Jack soon drifted off into sleep, propped up in a dark corner. Fitful, shapeless dreams plagued him, so it was almost with relief that he was woken by the noisey arrival of a small crowd of strangers. Homeless people, or junkies perhaps, they soon had a trash-fire going casting sickly orange light on their faces. Ugly, crude looking faces, brutish and unkind. They squabbled violently and releaved themselves freely against a wall. Two of them slumped down near the fire and began rutting like animals in the darkness.

A fight broke out, and a knife flashed in the firelight. Best to leave them to it, Jack thought to himself queasily and he slunk away, further into the abandoned industrial lot. He caught a can with his foot, the noise unpleasantly loud in the night and turned his head to see if he had disturbed the strangers. A dozen points of light, hanging suspended in the darkness greeted him, on the edges of the fire's light, looking like all the world like the eyes of cats and all of them pointed in his direction.

Trusting his instincts he fled heedlessly into the night. It wasn't long before he tripped, landing painfully and tearing suit and skin alike on rough slate chippings. Fumbling in his pockets for a source of light he was rewarded with his phone. The light of the screen was feeble, but enough to show a pair of Train-tracks, rusted and thick with weeds. Not knowing what he hoped to find at the end, certain only that he wanted distance between him and those eyes in the dark, he pulled himself up and shuffled hastily in the direction they offered.

By the time Jack realised that the tracks led into a tunnel he had apparently already been travelling down it for some time. Casting about with the pale light from his Smartphone he couldn't see any sign of an entrance. He let the phone go dark, put a hand to the cold, grimey wall of the tunnel and shuffled onwards as best he could. The tunnel gave way to smooth white tiles, faded to a dull grey by age and neglect, and a sign wreathed in dead vines. It looked like an old Tube Station, forgotten and dead. He considered brushing aside the debris and the plantlife that obscured the station's name, but the tomblike stillness unnerved him and he left it behind, undisturbed.

Light began to flood back into the tunnel. The Tube opened up and above him an open section showing the sky for the next twenty feet or so. Birdsong accompanied the sudden smell of flowers and the walls were covered in Vines. The thought of following the tracks back into that dark and grimy place seemed suddenly horrifying. The thick, root-like vines seemed strong and old however so he climbed, despite his cold and aching limbs. Soon London lay sprawled about him, bathed in a wonderful light.

This London was older, brickwork crumbling and glass broken and all buried in a thick layer of plants. He could feel something drawing him on, calling to him and there it was, the Shard towering over London. A glittering blade of crystal at the heart of the garden with a single tree bursting from one side of it's peak. The streets were filled with undergrowth, foliage rustling as he passed and revealing those same hateful, inhuman eyes he had fled from the night before. He walked through their midst, fighting the urge to run lest he invite pursuit.

The grand crystal spire drew close, it's vast archway glittering before him, the doors vast, ivory white and enlaid with the most fantastical scenes of debauchery and excess. He pushed gingerly and they opened as if weightless.The sudden change in light took him by suprise as he entered. The floor was polished marble and across the cool expanse of the lobby, a smart looking lady in official looking clothes smiled at him brightly from a long desk made of the same material.

"Good Morning. Sign here, please?"

She pushed a large, leather-bound book across the desk and placed a single silver pen on the open page. He paused, grasping the pen as if it might turn into a snake and scrawled his signiture in the blank space provided.

"If you'd like to follow me, sir. They've been expecting you."

Post-Awakening
Learning about the Lie of reality and the Fallen World in a deserted carriage of the Eurostar was not how Jack had planned to spend the day. His gaggle of mismatched new aquantances talked over each other, eager to explain the accepted version of events whilst appearing to be the wittier and more irreverant of the group. He was already on the outskirts of Paris in a slightly cramped hire-car before they actually thought to explain why they had left London in such a hurry.

Rumours of Seers planning to intercept a sleepwalker whose awakening had been expected for some time apparently. He never did find out if it was the Seers of the Throne or a member of the Cabal that found him that day set up the device, but someone blew up two floors of the Shard building mere moments after they left it.

Jack spent those early months living as a guest in the Mysterium Headquarters in Berlin, a gift from the Cabal having gained them safe haven. Not speaking the Language at all, he capitolised on the Berlin Mysterium's arrangement with the local Free Council and gained largely unrestricted access to their Lorehouse, where he then spent most of his free time. Working through proxies and a cheap lawyer and backed up with some sympathy manipulation magic to smooth the deal he managed to exchange a quickie divorce for his wife agreeing to buy him out of her company at full share-price. Laundering the money through the magical economy of Berlin, the money was re-invested in a much safer business and all remaining ties to his old life carefully excised.

They returned to London a few months later when it was deemed safe. The Lorehouses of the Free Council of London were, in comparison to those in Berlin, much less open and inviting but with the aid of the Cabal who had adopted him he mananged to ingratiate himself with the Free Council and gain access to several of them. He kept out of the Cabal's plans and their capers as much as he could, prefering to spend his time in those Lorehouses he had gained access to in the Greater London region or exploring the city itself, seeing it with new eyes. Left largely to himself, he studied voraciously but with little real direction.

The quiet had to end eventually, however. He was alone in their sanctum with only his Mentor for company when news reached them that the Mysterium Headquarters in Berlin had been attacked, apparently by Seers. Fears that they had been sold out by one of their own were seemingly confirmed when the sanctum itself was targeted. Unable to trust former allies and unwilling to endanger them by trying to regroup, the two decided that the only way was to flee the country altogether just like when they ran to Berlin, but this time they would go their seperate ways and would likely never be returning.

His mentor implied he would hide himself in some exotic corner of the world, starting over in a strange new city, but he didn't inquire further. For Jack, the choice of what hole to bolt for was informed by his new outlook. He had failed in his past life, acted like a complete jerk. If he was to have a second chance, he would live better this time. What use being given such power and opportunity if not to make a difference? He would find a broken city somewhere and bury himself in it. Either he would help in some small way to make that city a better place or he would die trying but at least he would do so as a better man than he had been.

Reading through the articles google threw up on Detroit however almost made him change his mind.

Mage Politics
The Arsenal of Democracy
Professional, dedicated and unapologetic about their intentions, Jack has a lot of respect for the Arsenal. He disagrees with the majority of their conclusions, but finds in general that they got on well enough once they twigged that he wasn't just trying to secure their firepower for his own ends.

The Quiet
Jack isn't entirely sure he understands what's going on with Errant and Edelachtbare. He can at least stand behind their goal of doing what they can to deal with the Abyss in Detroit. He's made it clear to Errant that he's willing to help her with this if needed. Edelachtbare, he mostly stays away from, but he tries not to take offence when the bear of a man lashes out in his direction, it is after all merely his way.

Speakeasy Society
Jack could sit and listen to Johnny Saxaphone play all night and often does if given half a chance. He admires their goals and the slow, steady progress they are making in helping out their neighborhoods.

General Malcom's Irregulars
Like with the Armory, Jack finds it hard to believe that the Irregulars can solve Detroit's problems with bullets. You can't shoot urban decay, or kill an Idea by stabbing it in the night. They're well intentioned people though, standing up for their own and looking out for each other and there's Truth in that. Besides, if you can look past the slight hint of madness they're nice enough folks.

The T-Street Crew
Not everyone's favourite neighbors. Jack has made some small efforts to insure he's on passingly good terms with the T-Street Crew. They are, first and foremost, a product of Detroit itself. It's easy to condem, but the Jerusalem man seems to understand power and the realities of the street in ways that many of the other Cabals do not. Everyone knows he has plans for the city, and Jack for one suspects that at this point, that can only be a good thing. Besides, once you get past their reputation, there are a couple of real great people in the T-Street Crew.

The Old Secret
It's hard to see what they are for, mostly. They seem nice enough to Jack as people, but their involvements in the City's affairs have a practiced apathy to them. Jack is polite and respectful with them, and they cause him no trouble.

Hates Corporal Hunter. Not with a burning passion exactly, but he always gave Jack the impression of someone playing at war. It's not so much what he does that rankles as the glee that goes with it.

Loves Hilltop. Her overall goals may remain a mystery, but Jack gets a very strong sense that on some level she understands. Her choice of canvas transforms her artworks from static objects to living things, changing and decaying with the object they are created on, finite and real in a way that art on canvas tries not to be. There is Truth in that, Jack thinks. He finds the way that others dismiss it as morbid slightly sad.

Owes Chanic for hooking him up with a totally sweet, mint condition third generation Pontiac Firebird Trans Am convertable and not laughing too loud when he spent ten minutes sat in it making wooshing noises (http://youtu.be/VNtlGfHCrEs?t=9s).

Is Owed by Captain Rushaw on account of helping the Captain out with a caper that involved recovering a certain Artifact and during which Jack was shot at repeatedly.

Errant Has something Jack wants. He's not what you'd call jealous by nature, but it's hard not to wonder what he could accomplish with the kind of powerful natural authority that she commands so effortlessly, despite her often quite fragile appearance. Money, Power, Secrets? All well and good, but her way of getting the attention of an entire room full of disparate, arguing mages without even having to raise her voice is awe inspiring, to Jack's mind.

Deadly
2012-12-03, 07:00 PM
Amun-Ra

Tracking
Mana: [x][x][x][x][x][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Health: [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Willpower [x][x][x][x][ ][ ]
Destiny [x][x][ ][ ]

XP 8/59 Arcane 0/12 Political 2/2 (22 merits, 10 rotes, 3 skills, 12 arcana, 16 gnosis)

Active Spells:
Fate Armor


Statistics
Name: Amun Ahmed (born Amina Ahmed)
Shadow Name: Amun-Ra

Quote "Make of yourself whatever you will"
Path Acanthus
Order Silver Ladder

Virtue Fortitude Vice Pride

ATTRIBUTES
Intelligence ++
Wits +++
Resolve +++

Strength ++
Dexterity +
Stamina +++

Presence +++
Manipulation ++
Composure +++

SKILLS
Academics
Computer +
Crafts
Investigation ++
Medicine
Occult ++++
Politics
Science ++++ (structural engineering)

Athletics
Brawl
Drive
Firearms
Larceny
Stealth +
Survival +++
Weaponry

Animal Ken ++ (cats)
Empathy
Expression*
Intimidation ++
Persuasion*
Socialize
Streetwise +++ (rumors)
Subterfuge* +

MERITS
High Speech +
Encyclopedic Knowledge ++++
Eidetic Memory ++
Destiny ++ (beware of dog-headed [dog-hearted?] thieves)

Occultation ++
Resources +
Contacts + (journalists)
Hallow ++ (communal)
Status + (silver ladder)

ADVANTAGES
Defense 1
Health 8
Initiative 4
Size 5
Speed 8
Willpower 6

WIZARD TRAITS
Gnosis 2
Wisdom 7
Arcana Fate 2, Time 2, Prime 3
Mana 7/11

ROTES
Analyze Enchanted Item (Prime 1) Cost 0
Supernal Vision (Prime 1) [Wits+Occult+Prime 10] Cost 0
Counterspell Prime (Prime 2) [Composure+Occult+Prime 10] Cost 1
Ley Lines (Prime 3) [Int+Science+Prime 9] Cost 0

Interconnections (Fate 1) [Wits+Empathy+Fate 5] Cost 0
Shifting the Odds (Fate 2) [Wits+Science+Fate 9] Cost 1

Momentary Flux (Time 1) [Wits+Investigation+Time 6] Cost 0

MAGICAL TOOLS
Cup (Creative power) A tarot card of the Fool, representing the free, unrestricted power of the creative mind to challenge and break with orthodoxy and conformity. When he's not constantly holding the card, it usually sticks out of one of his front pockets.

Sword (Directed Power) A one dollar Australian coin showing a ram's head, found on the street once, probably dropped by a tourist. The ram's head was a symbol often associated with Amun-Ra, the Egyptian god, and naturally brings to mind a direct force. The thought that the coin was given this design to commemorate the Australian sheep industry - and the obvious analogy between sheep and Sleepers - only serves to fuel Amun's righteous anger whenever he needs a little boost.

Staff (Authority/General Power) An old hawk's feather. Amun usually wears it behind his ear or otherwise stuck in his hair. It reminds him of his Awakening vision, as well as his father. A power who would keep you down, but now vanquished and behind you.

Mirror (Reflections/echoes) A small transparent four-sided die, like a pyramid. Amun likes to turn it around and around to look at it from every angle, or toss it to see what number it shows.

Coin (Cycles of power) A little old book fit for a pocket, containing tables and mathematical identities related to the trigonometric functions, representing the beauty and power of triangles and the relation to periodic, rhythmic phenomena. It is the only possession Amun has kept from his old school days and was one of the first "forbidden" books he owned. He still frequently pulls it out to ponder its pages, even though he could no doubt recite it from memory, in his sleep or even while drunk off his ass.

PHOENIX
A key chain with a small metal phoenix figure dangles from a pocket. +1 max mana.

OTHER KNOWN POSSESSIONS
Sawn off pumpgun, normally in suitcase, illegal

Description
Asked to describe Amun, most people would say "Who?" or perhaps "Oh, that weird Egyptian hobo, yeah, I've ... seen him around" in a somewhat dismissive voice. Amun blends in by cultivating an impeccable aura of hobo weirdness, which makes him virtually invisible to the human eye.

Amun is a big man. Tall, wide and imposing. A lot of this apparent size comes from enough layers of clothes to dress a small village. This is one thing people are almost certain to mention about him, if prodded, that he always dresses as if it's the next ice age even in the middle of the summer.

Another thing that lends to his apparent size is his big, wild mane of unkempt black hair, generally agreed to be enough for a medium-sized pride of lions. Despite this, Amun is always clean shaven - in truth he never has to shave, but most people assume otherwise. Amun gives the impression that he could grow a full beard overnight.

Amun's clothes are riddled with pockets stuffed with random things he has collected over the years. Everything from dice, cards, scraps of paper, small stones, pencils, pieces of wood, wire, coins and dried fish, to mention but a few. Even his hair occasionally sports small ornaments. He also carries around a large, worn suitcase. No one truly knows the extent of Amun's "treasures", perhaps not even himself.

Amun is generally easygoing and a good listener. He is fond of a good joke or a friendly game of chance, or just a good chat about this and that. When he or others are threatened, however, he is not slow to act or speak his mind.

Amun believes in everyone's right to be what they want to be, to seek their own fortune, to defy their fate and to transcend this world. In his view this world is a prison, and everything and everyone in it are living a lie. The highest goal is to transcend the ultimate lie, the last of many, and achieve true freedom. He's proud and driven in his own pursuit of this vision.

He is often seen in the company of wild cats, who he treats with great fondness and respect. In his views cats should be free and not kept as pets, but he'll gladly talk to any and all cats around the city. Dogs, however, had better bugger off.

Because of an old operation, Amun's voice is low and somwhat labored. He speaks with a mild accent, but usually has no trouble making himself understood.

MAGE SIGHTS
Prime: The most difficult for Amun to describe. It's like a sea of interconnected ideas and intuitions, an ocean of truths. Amun calls it the Sea of Eureka.

Fate: When focusing on fate and destiny, the various lines and possibilities stand out like whispered promises, oaths or intentions and desires to Amun. Everything has aspirations, some of them voice it more clearly than others.

Time: A dry sensation, Amun likes to compare it to blowing desert sands whittling away at everything. Following the strength of the wind and the heat allows him to distinquish things. Amun likes to philosophize that if only all these winds could be directed to blow down the right things, rather than everything ... great things could be achieved.

Background
Early History
Amina Ahmed grew up in Alexandria, Egypt, fourth child out of five of a wealthy business man and his wife. Amina went to a private school where she excelled, often demonstrating a remarkable memory. Despite her achievements, Amina was not happy, protesting at the path she was expected to take as a girl in a strictly orthodox world. Amina studied voraciously on her own, favoring topics she was not taught because she was a girl, such as science and math. This brought ire from her teachers and family who wanted her to do as she was told. Yet Amina persisted in her own pursuit.

Amina became fascinated by the history of the ancients and the math and science behind the construction of the pyramids and other great structures of the world. She frequently had vivid and recurring dreams of pyramids and high places, often with a surreal and disturbing element that nevertheless pushed her on.

From an early age, Amina knew that things were "not right". Her tomboy manners and interests caused further rifts between her and her family, until at the age of 15 when she began dressing as a boy in public and calling herself Amun. It was a radical step, but one she had felt was right for a long time. She had been dressing like this in secret for a while, it was time to stop living a lie. She knew it would not go down well with her family, but she stood firm. In the end her father threw her out of the family and declared that she was not his daughter.

Amina had become Amun.

Amun was forced to live on the street or staying briefly with the few sympathetic friends he could find. It was a hard life, but for the first time Amun felt a sense of freedom. Eventually, with the help of his older brother, Amun was able to study structural engineering at the Alexandria University under a false name and identity.

After two years of studying, Amun fell ill with what was first thought to be an infection of the windpipe and airways. He was admitted to a public hospital where his condition continued to worsen. After a few days he was placed on mechanical ventilation and scheduled for operation. His father declared that this was God's punishment and refused to visit or offer support.

Awakening
Amun found himself watching and contemplating his own body as it lay on the bed in the small hospital room. As the seconds, minutes, hours ... days went by without change, Amun began to notice. The body on the bed looked like a corpse, then the bed was a stone slab, when he looked around the walls were also stone, there were pictures, strange dancing figures with animal heads or animal bodies. There were no windows.

The body looked like a corpse. It was wrapped in white. Even if it breathed and dreamed and lived, it was trapped and sleeping.

There were no windows, but his eyes could see. There were no windows, but there [i]was a light. It came from high above, from two small holes like a pair of yellow eyes.

Amun let his eyes wander along the walls and drawings as he read the symbols and signs. What he had taken to be people with animal heads, or animals with people heads, he began to realize where rather stages in a transformation. This one was not a man with an eagle's head, but a man taking on the form of an eagle. This one was not a lion with a man's head, but a lion transforming into a man.

If he had wings Amun could reach the holes above. Dry old wrappings began to crumble and turn to dust. The corpse burst open as wings unfolded. The moth hovered over the remains of its former life for a moment, before ascending along the thin beam of light from above.

Amun emerged into the light outside. The world was beneath him, and above a great sun baked the stone of the pyramid. Amun turned his gaze up, along the great face of stones to the brilliant tip of solid gold in distant heights. The moth rose on the waves of heat towards its destiny.

A screech split the still air and talons flashed like steel in the sun. Certain doom descended in one swift and fateful attack. The moth flapped its wings just once before the claws closed around it. One flap in the winds of fate became a storm. There had never been any moth, Amun's destiny was not to die before the top and if it was he would damn well change it. This he knew with perfect certainty. The hawk's eyes had played a cruel trick on it as it found no moth but an angry tomcat with a vice grip on its neck.

The cat landed on the face of the pyramid, claws hanging on to the rough cracks of the stone as it licked its bloody chops. With slow but grim determination the cat dragged itself up the pyramid.

Amun reached the golden top of the pyramid and gazed out over the endless world beneath ... the world he had left behind, a world of lies and prisons. The cat turned its eyes upwards instead. After all, the tip of the pyramid was only the top of this world, it was only a step on the ladder.

Amun narrowed his eyes at the heavens above, and his name formed on his lips, taking the form of an oath.

It was a name, and a promise, and in this place it would be remembered.

Post-Awakening
Amun woke in the hospital. The breathing machine had been turned off and he had been moved to a new room. Bandages around his neck suggested that he had been operated. Amun looked around the small, quiet room and his eyes fell upon a small card on the nightstand next to the bed, emblazoned with a strange symbol resembling a ladder. Amun reached out and picked it up, turning it over between his fingers.

Amun left the hospital a few days later. The address on the card turned out to be the small, local office of an American news agency reporting from the region. Amun was offered a job and training as an assistant, his job to wander the streets and gather rumors and information from all around the city.

Amun was eventually initiated into the Silver Ladder, and took his shadow name. Thus Amun became Amun-Ra.

During his time at the agency, Amun became fascinated by the relaxed and tolerant way of the American journalists compared to the strict background in which he had been raised. After a year at the agency he decided to leave everything he knew behind and find his destiny across the sea.

Amun set out for America, where he wandered between cities for several years before finally reaching Detroit. Here he has stayed since, working towards his goal of harnessing the latent powers present in the fallen city.

Relationship with other mages in Detroit
The Arsenal of Democracy
Amun has very little concern for global or even regional politics and concerns, but is willing to grudgingly agree that some people have to deal with that too and he'd rather have it not be him. For this reason he is, at the best of times, neutral towards the Arsenal. They do their job, he does his. They don't bother him, he doesn't bother them.

The Quiet
They perform an important job and do real good work. On the other hand Amun can't help but wonder about Edelachtbare and what the Mysterium censors are keeping from everyone. The man is kinda like looking into one of those silly mirrors, a distorted, twisted view of Amun himself. Amun is not sure whether to laugh or hide when faced with the other man.

The Speakeasy Society
Amun agrees with a lot of what the Society does and stands for. Local change effected over time, building outwards and upwards. He's not so sure about the group's leadership, however.

General Malcom's Irregulars
Amun sympathizes a great deal with the Mysterium and its objective of securing any and all magical lore and artifacts. Knowledge is power, after all. For this reason he is also sympathetic to Malcom's group. Their crazy antics also appeal to his fondness for pissing on expectations and norms. Still, Amun is not sure that their heavy-handed approach will not backfire catastrophically one day, dragging others with them.

The T-Streat Crew
Amun knows trouble when he sees it, and stays absolutely clear of the Crew when at all possible. As if their murderous, thuggish ways weren't enough to convince anyone that they are nothing but bad news, Amun never liked their obsession with honor and reputation either.

The Old Secret
This kind of apathy and deliberate unhelpfulness just pisses off Amun. They're clearly up to something, and Amun is generally convinced that this "something" is "no good".

Specific People
Hates Kurosawa. While Luminoth is frustrating and really gets on Amun's nerves, Kurosawa represents everything Amun loathes about the Crew, everything he sees as a problem with the city and everything he despises about people who take themselves and their honor way too seriously. Not to mention the rampant materialism.

Loves Captain Rushaw. Amun's fondness for trivia and details is one he finds reflected in the Captain. The two have often shared random bits of information and anecdotes.

Owes Closer. Amun has on more than one occasion bought or received items - mostly apparent junk - that he sought from Closer. Amun isn't sure how far he can trust Closer or the items yet. The fact that Amun can't stand Closer and the other members of the Old Secret doesn't help on his feelings on the matter.

Is Owed by Hilltop. Amun doesn't want anything to do with the Crew if he can avoid it, yet Hilltop's art always fascinated him and the two occasionally bump into each other on their own personal quests around the city. Over time Amun has been able to help her with random, isolated bits and pieces, little things, but it adds up. While Amun is not quick to press the issue because of the Crew, he suspects it's a good thing to have this little trump card.

Has something Amun wants Luminoth, for similar reasons as Tessen. Luminoth clearly knows something and is up to something, and Amun suspects it could be critical to his own research and objectives. Her deliberate unwillingness to offer anything in the way of help or information drives Amun crazy.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-03, 10:11 PM
Turing

AKA Matthew (Matt) Sharpe
Male Guardian of the Veil Moros Mage
“I came back from the dead. What have you done recently?”

TRACKING

HEALTH
[X*][][][][][][][]

MANA
[+][+][+][+][+][+][-][-][-][-][-][-]

WILLPOWER
[+][+][+][-][-]

ACTIVE SPELLS

CURRENT XP: 16.2
Arcane XP: 0.1
POLITICAL XP: 0.1

STATS


ATTRIBUTES
Intelligence 4
Wits 2
Resolve 2

Strength 3
Dexterity 1
Stamina 3

Presence 3
Manipulation 1
Composure 3


MENTAL
Academics 2
Computer 4 (AI + 1, Networks + 1)
Crafts 2
Investigation 1
Occult 1
Politics
Medicine
Science 2 (Physics + 1)

PHYSICAL
Athletics 2
Brawl 3
Drive 1
Firearms 1
Larceny
Stealth
Survival
Weaponry 1

SOCIAL
Animal Ken
Empathy
Expression
Intimidation 2
Persuasion
Socialize 1
Streetwise 1
Subterfuge

MERITS
Bound Ghost 2
Eidetic Memory 2
Sanctum 2 (communal)
Library 2 (Mythology of the Americas, Physics)
Resources 1
High Speech 1
Status (Guardians) 1

ARCANA
Death 3
Matter 2
Forces 1
Life 1
Prime 1

GNOSIS 3
MANA/PER TURN 13/3

WISDOM: 6
VIRTUE: Fortitude
VICE: Gluttony
DERANGEMENT: Depression (mild)

DERIVED TRAITS
Defense 1 (3?)
Initiative 4
Speed 9

MAGICAL TOOLS
Cup Pocket-sized periodic table
Sword Silver-tipped cane
Staff Glasses
Mirror Charon’s obol
Coin Tie pin

PHOENIX
A stylized ascending phoenix is embroidered on all his vests in black thread, just below the collar at the back of the neck.

ROTES
Death 2: Decay
Duration: Lasting
Aspect: Vulgar
Cost: None
Pool: Stamina+Intimidation+Death 8

Matter 2: Transmute Water
Duration: Prolonged
Aspect: Vulgar
Cost: None
Pool: Intelligence+Science+Matter 8

Death 1: Dark Matter
Duration: Prolonged
Aspect: Covert
Cost: None
Pool: Intelligence+Science+Matter 8

Matter 1: Detect Substance
Duration: Concentration
Aspect: Covert
Cost: None
Pool: Wits+Composure+Matter 7


DESCRIPTION


Matt is one of the increasingly rare individuals who have reached middle age and aren’t afraid to show it. Although his hair has gone gray and is beginning to recede a bit, he keeps it short and neatly trimmed, and is always clean-shaven. He often wears a pair of silver reading glasses as well, although it isn’t clear if he actually needs them or not.

Despite his age, Matt is clearly in good shape, and his muscular features combine with iron-gray hair to project a forceful and dangerous presence when the need arises. However, if danger isn’t imminent, he behaves as another man altogether, laughing and joking with those around him while indulging his favorite addictions - cigarettes and coffee - usually augmented by a healthy dose of Bailey’s.

His wardrobe is almost entirely uniform, invariably consisting of spit-polished black shoes, black silk dress slacks, and a close-fitting black vest buttoned over a wide black tie, and set off with a white tie pin in the shape of a flower. The only article of clothing that ever seems to change are his shirts, which vary through an enormous array of pastels onward to bright primary and secondary colors. This uniform is nearly always accompanied by a black and silver cane which he uses just as much to punctuate his sentences as to help him walk.

When magic comes into play and his Numina becomes visible, Matt’s features seem to take on a stretched and pallid appearance, and his green eyes flare into corpse-lights. Those who pay close enough attention can see twisting humanoid shapes continually in motion behind him; one of them always wears a top hat and sunglasses.


HISTORY


EARLY HISTORY

Matthew was born just in time to see the dawn of the consumer side of the computing revolution begin to trickle in. The earliest iterations of video games, PCs and the internet all left their mark, and being somewhat technically inclined, Matt turned that interest into a profession.

He studied computer science at school, with a minor in the physical sciences, and eventually wrote his dissertation on AI and robotics. He was hired by a company that focused on applied computing solutions for industry, being one of the major players for a time in supplying the Detroit car manufacturers with robotic assembly equipment, workflow analysis and integrated software packages. When times started to get really tough for their clients, Matt decided to take the severance package they offered for voluntary retirement, and transitioned into a new job teaching university CS courses at Michigan State, although he tendered his resignation shortly after his Awakening.

As far as his personal life goes, Matt dated a few times, but he was never married, and if asked about it, would simply say that he was always too busy to make a relationship work. Unfortunately, that sentiment seems to have bled over into his family life as well. Matt and his brother John haven’t been on good terms in years, owing in part to a bitter disagreement over how to take care of their aging mother after their father’s death. The compromise left her in a nursing home in Florida.

AWAKENING

Some people have mid-life crises. Matthew Sharpe had an Awakening.

At the time, he was in Miami for a conference, and he took to wandering around the city during his scarce free time, fascinated by the existence of so many semi-autonomous subcultures within the city proper. At the time, he was deeply interested in voodoo traditions, and found himself wandering around the Haitian neighborhoods, despite being a little afraid of getting mugged.

At some point, distracted by scenery, he collided with a street vendor, who made a fuss until he finally bought something, hoping to prevent an escalation of the scene. The food was good, but he had barely gotten a few blocks when he started to feel sick. Later he was never sure if he had been the victim of magic, poison or terrible luck, but when he started to spit up blood, he knew something was wrong. Fortunately, terror only had a chance to grow on him for a few minutes before his vision went black.

When he came to, no one was around except a black man wearing sunglasses with a tux and top hat. A part of him suspected who that man might be, and it was answered by a gleaming smile which said both that the man knew what Matt was thinking, and that he was entirely correct.

After their silent preliminaries, the grinning Baron led Matt to an ancient cemetery, preserved within the city limits. He gave Matt a shovel and showed him where to dig, and when he finally uncovered a wooden coffin at the bottom of his hole, the Baron lifted the lid and ushered him inside.

The lid closed, and Matt lay in the darkness for ages, until his vision started to swim and he wanted to rub his eyes, but couldn’t work out how to move his arms around in the tiny space to accomplish it. At last, the darkness seemed to dissolve, and he found himself staring out at a familiar skyline.

The city was Detroit as it had once been, back in his father’s day. Everything was gleaming, and he could hear the noise of a thousand factories pumping out machines while ten thousand foundries supplied them with material. Matt realized then that Detroit was his city; it had given birth to him, provided his family with food, even given him a way to pay the bills once he’d come of age. He felt like part of it all, and in the darkness of his tomb, Matt was happy that he belonged to the city.

As he watched the scenes of Detroit before him, he expected to see his own life flash before his eyes; the final, if cliche, stroke before death fully claimed him. Instead, the city began to change, and he saw it as it had become - a filthy, decay-ridden shell of a thing - and something in him rebelled.

It wasn’t right that Detroit was like this. Every half-dead face he saw wandering the streets only drove that point home further, until his soul was screaming in indignation! His city shouldn’t end like this - it wouldn’t end like this!... But in the middle of his rage, a voice asked him what he would do about it all, and Matt remembered that he was dead.

“Well, what are you going to do about that?”

That was his choice then. Stay there, in the ground, and rest in a life complete, or get back up and fight for something worthwhile. Something that was so deeply ingrained as to be a part of his own soul.

It took hours, but at the end of it, Matt stood, breathing raggedly by a rough hole in a decrepit Miami churchyard. The starlight reflected off a skinny black man’s sunglasses, and then the man spit into his hand and held it out toward Matt, grinning like a madman. When Matt imitated the gesture and shook Baron Samedi’s hand a high, hilarious laugh rose from the loa’s throat, and the next thing he could remember was waking up in a hospital bed.

There was a girl in the room with him, young and awe-struck and eerily like the street vendor from before. She ran over to his bed and pressed something into his hands before whispering “You met him?!” and running off.

When he opened his hands, Matt found a pin in the shape of a white rose.

POST-AWAKENING

Matt’s Awakening gave him a mission - see Detroit brought back to life, whatever that takes and whatever that means. As a result, he left behind the few connections he had and headed into the city, using the remainder of his generous consulting pension/severance to support himself. His approach has been a generalist one so far, trying to figure out all the things wrong with the city and how to move them in a different direction. Sometimes that meant fighting Manifestations and sometimes it meant doing little things to help people so they didn’t have to rely on the corrupt Seer or Scelesti networks to try and get aid.

Very early on, he got in over his head while fighting the Abyss, but he was pulled out of the fire by a fortunate intervention from the Quiet. Although they don’t necessarily trust him any more than other Pentacle mages, they did hand him off to a few Guardians that served as his first contacts with the organization and gave him a bit of training to help him survive the city’s horrors. He still looks up to that cabal and is in the process of passing the veils for full admittance into the Guardians himself.

It was also through Errant that Matt first met Alina. At first, he thought she might have been a former student of his, but he couldn’t recognize her face. While chatting together, they discovered a similar vision for the city that linked them in purpose, and they’ve stayed in contact ever since. Recently, they’ve decided to join together as part of a cabal to further that vision.

Matt first met his other cabal-mate, Amun-Ra, through another mutual acquaintance, General Malcom. The man was a fascinating mix of mad, affable and dynamic, and Matt wished his own brother could understand him as well as Amun seemed to during their discussions. When the time came to form a cabal, it was a logical choice to team up with Amun who also shared a transformative vision for the city that meant so much to him.


MAGE SIGHT


Death: Pretty straightforward; the world goes to shades of black and white, while ghosts appear something like whitish holograms. The weight of death typically appears as a dark vapor surrounding a subject, which may actually condense and drip if concentrated enough.

Forces: Forces phenomena appear limned in different colors. Generally, electricity is blue-white, fire is red, kinetic energy and abstract force is kind of purplish.

Life: Living things he's concentrating on are highlighted with a golden glow. Life in the more abstract sense appears similarly colored but appears more as ley lines or energy patterns to him.

Matter: Turing basically has relevant chemical and/or physical data on whatever he's looking at beamed into his head, generally summarized as if it came out of some sort of scientific apparatus.


MAGE POLITICS


The Arsenal: Mostly, Matt finds them frustrating. They’re unwilling to divert resources to help Detroit specifically, but if they won’t do it, that just means he’ll have to try and take up the slack. Overall, he’d probably just prefer to leave them to their own devices, unless they actively begin to harm the city in the name of a ‘greater good’.

The Quiet: They got him out of a sticky situation and helped him further his own goals, if only indirectly. That, coupled with their commitment to persevere in helping Detroit in the way they seem most suited to has led him to a deep respect for this organization and its leadership. A part of him even aspires to be associated with them eventually, although he’d prefer to have a broader role in Detroit’s recovery than just targeting Manifestations.

The Speakeasy Society: For Matt, they’re something of a cipher. He doesn’t really understand where they’re coming from or have much connection to them ideologically. On the practical side, he’d prefer not to run into Tyler Durden without backup, although he finds her brand of crazy kind of amusing at arm’s length. As long as they’re trying to build up the city, he’ll settle for staying out of their way. As someone who regularly speaks with ghosts however, he does have a fairly strong contempt for Mirror Man, whether he’s genuine or a faker (which might be the worse of the two possibilities).

General Malcom’s Irregulars: Their leader seems off-kilter at best, waving a smile and a shotgun like a giant middle finger at all the corruption and decay in the city. The Baron would love him for that, and Matt can’t help but have a soft spot for them as well.

The T-Street Crew: Thugs with magic, plain and simple. He’ll tolerate their presence under protest until they kill a civilian or innocent sleeper, and then he’ll do everything in his power to put them in place with the rest of the dregs of Detroit that are being cleaned up.

The Old Secret: Hatred. They could potentially do more than any other group in the city right now to put Detroit back on the proper path, but they refuse. They aren’t overtly violent and the Hierarch being part of the group presents a problem for openly acting against them, but he hates them and their delay tactics as part of the problem keeping the city back. If he finds enough leverage, he would love to get them out of power and even out of the city.

SPECIFICS

Hates: Luminoth. She’s the antithesis of everything he wants for the city and tries to be. She only offers inaction, delay and excuses in place of planning and execution, and there’s a possibility she’s doing all this on purpose. Incompetence he might be able to forgive, but deliberate foot-dragging and malice turns his stomach.

Loves: General Malcom. He reminds Matt of Baron Samedi sometimes, and everything that put him on the path he’s currently following. He likes to show up when he gets the chance and have a beer with the General while they discuss anything the older man feels like. For his own part, Matt looks up to the man as a role model in terms of how he faces danger and inspires others.

Owes: Errant. Directly responsible for helping to get him out of some serious Abyss-based trouble, and even giving him a little direction for his own efforts. He would likely obey any order she directed to him.

Is Owed By: Captain Rushaw. Thanks to his occasional association with the Irregulars, Matt happened to be around when the Arrows came calling to cause trouble for Rushaw. It’s hard to say exactly, but him standing his ground by the captain probably kept things from getting ugly that time, and Rushaw feels that one good turn deserves another.

Has Something Matt Wants: Husing Hiroshi. Although he knows the chances are probably next to nil, Hiroshi’s resources could do a lot of good for Detroit, both in terms of cash and material. If he could somehow convince the man that local interests were equally valid, Hiroshi would make an extremely valuable ally and Matt knows it.

Thanqol
2012-12-03, 11:43 PM
As far as everyone except Druid is concerned, I have things planned for when you reach Belle island and/or Jack goes to learn Mind magic. Otherwise it's on you to start stuff, or just continue to converse.

Anarion
2012-12-04, 12:35 AM
I was planning to time skip us, but didn't want to take the time to compose anything substantive. Should it be relevant to anyone else, Tessen has ordered a strawberry milk shake.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-04, 12:39 AM
Well, having waded through something in the region of a quarter of the ABC Expressions meme and avoided getting massive hand-cramps or having to delete more than one portrait and start over, I should probably give the pony-sketching a rest for the night anyway.

So, instead of sorting out, like, sleep or something I'll see if I can't hurry us along to Belle Island, then.

One question though; Postcognition.
Is it possible to, say, instead of storing the effect in your meat-pattern use it via something like a cheap pair of retro sunglasses? So for example, when you're looking through the shades you see the target/results of your postcognition spell, but can look over the top of the shades and stuff now and then to not walk into modern day traffic?

Thanqol
2012-12-04, 01:00 AM
Well, having waded through something in the region of a quarter of the ABC Expressions meme and avoided getting massive hand-cramps or having to delete more than one portrait and start over, I should probably give the pony-sketching a rest for the night anyway.

So, instead of sorting out, like, sleep or something I'll see if I can't hurry us along to Belle Island, then.

One question though; Postcognition.
Is it possible to, say, instead of storing the effect in your meat-pattern use it via something like a cheap pair of retro sunglasses? So for example, when you're looking through the shades you see the target/results of your postcognition spell, but can look over the top of the shades and stuff now and then to not walk into modern day traffic?

Yes! The downside is that it won't come with audio, but it works.

Anarion
2012-12-04, 01:22 AM
While you could do the sunglasses thing, why would you need to do it, as opposed to casting the spell, looking at what you want, dismissing it, going elsewhere and casting it again?

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-04, 01:26 AM
While you could do the sunglasses thing, why would you need to do it, as opposed to casting the spell, looking at what you want, dismissing it, going elsewhere and casting it again?

We have three time mages, potentially about Initiate a full on Timey-Whimey-Tour of Detroit.

I'm thinking we have a look at Belle Island, all three of us Postcognitioning (Jack and Tessen have the Rote, Amun is an Acanthus so improvising shouldn't cost mana I think? We link arms and stumble round like drunken explorers in time and space, with one of the three of us wearing time-glasses instead of having the full suit of time-senses on their meat-pattern so that we can do this and still not worry about falling in rivers or being hit by cars.

Anarion
2012-12-04, 01:28 AM
We have three time mages, potentially about Initiate a full on Timey-Whimey-Tour of Detroit.

I'm thinking we have a look at Belle Island, all three of us Postcognitioning (Jack and Tessen have the Rote, Amun is an Acanthus so improvising shouldn't cost mana I think? We link arms and stumble round like drunken explorers in time and space, with one of the three of us wearing time-glasses instead of having the full suit of time-senses on their meat-pattern so that we can do this and still not worry about falling in rivers or being hit by cars.

I see. Neat idea, let's try it. Tessen already did this for all the major monuments on the island, but who knows what we'll find.

Anarion
2012-12-04, 03:59 AM
So, I'm still trying to write a paper on law and philosophy, thinking about Mage kinda at the same time, and it's late at night right now. Therefore, I'm going to muse here randomly and you should all feel free to ignore this post unless you have a desire to debate moral philosophy.

So, what's mucking with my head right now is how people actually make decisions. This is purely descriptive, I don't give a crap how they should be making decisions. But then, I do give a crap how they present the way they're making decisions. This is confusing already, ugh.

Let me give a concrete example: when a judge says it's unconstitutional t shout fire in a crowded theater, there are three things going on there. The observable predictive phenomena is that the judge probably voted according to political and/or personal preference. In other words, the judge's best friend probably could have predicted the vote beforehand because he knew the guy.

The normative, which I care jack squat about right now and am only mentioning for comparison, is that he shouldn't be choosing that way because most people think that legal decisions should be based on some kind of consistent system, not the whims of the individual.

The one that's messing with me is that he lies in his writing when he explains why he ruled the way he did. And everyone agrees that him lying is the best thing ever. Admitting that he made a personal/political decision would delegitimize the system, therefore the decision must be justified on some kind of textual and systemic grounds that are not actually predictive of future decisions (or if they are, they're worse predictors than personal/political observations).

But fine, we love it when people lie for the greater good, classic moral problem. My issue, which I'm trying to write about, is how the heck do you classify this kind of thing? It applies to more than just judges. I think mages do it all the time. The Free Counsel practically epitomizes it, where they're trying to do good for the world and espouse their whole egalitarian thing, but then they're the goddamn terrorists and the Seers that prevent the Free Counsel from blowing up the train full of people would have been the good guys.

It's this weird cognitive dissonance thing where you're literally aware of two conflicting viewpoints at the same time and you deny neither of them yet are perfectly comfortable moving forwards. That is, making law, or making radical magical decisions seems to require that you actively abandon rationality in favor of deception in order to perpetuate a series of abstract goals at the expense of logic.

The worst part for the law thing is that the bloody judges keep calling each other out over this, which would completely defeat the entire enterprise except that their writing is so dense that nobody except the experts who have bought into the system bother to read anything they write directly. They don't even all agree that they're doing the same thing! I can literally picture the debate where you've got two mage cabals planning two different experiments over the same magical sanctum or hallow or whatever and each side starts accusing the other of not understanding magic at all. Then they start debating the contents of each ritual, but since neither side agrees about what the other intends to do they're not even actually talking to each other, they're talking to their straw man opinions about how stupid the other mages are, and by the end of it they've probably worked out that they need to put down the insane fools on the other end of the room before they plunge everyone into the abyss.

Thanqol
2012-12-04, 07:27 AM
@ Anarion: If you're going down that rabbit hole it only really stops at the Philosophy of Language. According to many philosophies of language, most - almost all! - statements are lies or invalid. They fail any sort of logical structure or test. And yet, we can use them to communicate perfectly! We use lies to tell the truth.

Huge swathes of human social structures are lies, but they're convenient lies and they produce useful results so it's worth maintaining those lies as a substitute for (impossible to attain) perfect communication. This is also why we tell stories about ponies. Ponies is lies, but those lies tell true stories.


The lie of a logical constitutional process is valuable because it stops judges behaving in an arbitrary way, and providing a useful counterargument to apply against those who go off the rails. There may be no actual respect or application of the logical constitutional process other than as a way to slap down those who go too far against the collective consensus. But if the collective consensus allows through an invalid extrapolation, like the fire in a theatre thing, then those involved have successfully appealed to a deeper level of moral understanding (virtues) which hold more sway than mechanistic logic. A huge number of decisions and exceptions are founded on these deeper virtues, which is partly why I'm such a huge proponent of Virtue Theory.


So if the two mage cabals teamed up on the ritual both basically believe, deep down, that "Everyone Has The Right To Be Happy" then they can engage in a stunning act of hypocrisy and work together despite their conflicting philosophical positions and incompatible magical understandings to produce an effect that makes people happy. However, if their underlying principle isn't the same then they'll use the codified philosophy as higher level arguments when the concern is on a much lower level of values. Also, poor communication can get people stuck on higher philosophies even when lower values are compatible.

EDIT: Also, DaveB on a Guardian of the Veil Legacy, the 11th Question:


Yeah. I like the tension between the Question and the rest of the order - in a magical society of liars, having people dedicated to uncovering the truth is unsettling.

In my house game, the local 11Q is one step removed from local Guardian leadership thanks to that, despite being a Master. He's not a particularly easy man to get along with. He uses the second attainment almost as reflex now, and having been mildly discriminated against because of his Legacy his whole career he's long since stopped even pretending to be sorry about it - if someone is going to be freaked out anyway, he may as well cultivate that image. Naturally, the local Guardians made him Emissary (the Guardian in charge of inter-order relations) because that discourages the other orders from interfering with them.

Anyways - he, finding no suitable apprentices in his own order and with a mid-high but pretty unshakable order status, has decided to take a Free Councillor (one of the PCS) as an apprentice, and is teaching him Time ready to induct him into the Legacy despite the fallout that will result - in his opinion, the Epopt can try to punish him for breaking the order restriction on his Legacy, but he gave her several years to steer Guardian apprentices his way and he has more dirt on her than anyone else could even suspect.

This gives the Guardian PC in the cabal the screaming heebie jeebees. He already regards the 11Q as being nearly heretical, and sees the Master's social troubles and seeming inability to not use his attainments on everyone he talks to as being a result of the Legacy; the 11Q, to a young Messianistic-leaning Guardian who takes the order-as-a-religion very seriously, are broken. They've given up their ability to function as proper Guardians in order to fulfil their niche role perfectly. Whenever the 11Q is around, the Guardian tolerates all his eccentricities because he thinks the 11Q is a holy man. Like a mad hermit kind of a holy man. As for what he thinks about the Libertine PC being steered Question-wards, it's like a trainee priest finding out one of his friends is being recruited by a hardcore monastery, despite not believing in God.

All of this, naturally, is lost on the Libertine who just sees a Master taking an interest in him.

Thanqol
2012-12-05, 05:01 AM
Stuff like the life of F. Olmstead, and the incomplete design of Belle Island, is one of the best parts about running Mage. Some things just lend themselves to occult conspiracy so well.

Thanqol
2012-12-05, 07:35 AM
Went through the entire IC thread to refresh my memory. Actually been some really good writing there, I'm very happy with how this game is working out.

Oh, I've decided to do something useful and publically keep track of news headlines, notebook prophecies, and timetable information in a centrally linked post

PROPHECIES

Rebecca d'Payens - "A beautifully made sword that craves a scabbard."

Detective Slade - "The price of his redemption is tragedy, madness and blood."

The Devil's Triangle - "What seems a matter of Holy and Unholy really comes down to Ambition and Jealousy."

Belle Island - "Its design was never realised and its power never unlocked."

Father Prichard - "Blinding light must be met with blind faith, even if one has no idea what one is praying to."

The Plate - "A simple ritual perverted"

The Jerusalem Man - "The hoax that will save the Holy Land"

Tessen - "An empty cup can be filled, a broken cup is useless"

The Parliament - "When the Fisher King forgets, she sends forth the Parliament."

The Queen of Detroit - "The Fisher King shares a righteous connection with her land and people."

The Gate - "We Do Not Talk About The Gate."

Piotr Anglesk - "Withered fingers hold the puppet's strings in it's left hand."


NEWS HEADLINES

Warf Tower Butcher Still At Large

"The brutal murder of Detroit crime kingpin "Mardie Black" and six others on the top floor of the Warf Tower is subject to ongoing investigation by the FBI. Normally, law enforcement would dismiss bloodshed like this as gang violence, but the brutal nature of the stabbings and the ritual scalping of the dead has given the FBI reason to believe that they may be dealing with a serial killer."

Iran Sends Warships To Close the Persian Gulf

"Four Iranian warships have blockaded the Persian Gulf, following escalation with Saudi Arabia over the civil war in Syria. The UN has condemned the move as a breach of international law, and the United States has ordered Iran to remove the warships or they will consider it an act of war. The White House has issued a statement saying that 'All options are currently on the table'."

Hero Cop Ends Hostage Standoff

"Special Officer Longarm, a local SWAT sniper, ended a four hour hostage standoff last night when he killed both criminals with a single bullet after negotiations had broken down. Authorities say that Officer Longarm was not given a direct order to take the shot, but his quick thinking and initiative undoubtedly saved the lives of four children and two women. Special Officer Longarm is to be presented with a medal for his bravery."

UN Casualties in Greece

"Anarchy continues to rule in Greece after the catastrophic exit from the Euro, driving the death toll still higher. Four UN Peacekeepers were killed by an explosion in Athens last night following heavy austerity protests. Some experts have declared Greece to be a "Failed state" and recommended an expansion of the UN program."

Congress Holds AI Hearings

"Following the recent public demonstration of the Artificial Intelligence, Deep Black, which Intel states is "capable of fully replicating the functions of a human brain", the United States Congress has ordered a special committee to evaluate the AI's intelligence and independent decision making to answer the question of if they should grant the entity's request for US citizenship. Anti-AI protesters rallied outside Capitol Hill, perhaps concerned that this is the first sign of the robot apocalypse."

TIMETABLE


ONGOING

Concilium meetings every month on the 15th

LOCAL:

Tuesday: 1/9/15
Incidents:
The Church
Many meetings

Wednesday: 2/9/15
Incidents:
The Plate

Thursday: 3/9/15:
Incidents:
Tessen learned Spirit
Meeting with Cyprus
Encounter with Overlord
Acquired the XM-44

Friday: 4/9/15
Incidents:
Fight with the Zombies
Death of Slade
Discovered Staff

Saturday: 5/9/15
Helped the Speakeasy Society
Defeated Ogoun in a duel

Sunday: 6/9/15
THROUGH
Monday 15/9/15
Tessen needs to gave a talk at the Church, put in contact with Anglesk
Turing took the Staff to Malcom
Jack had a date with Errant, gave her the XM-44
Amun scouted the house of Sir Henry Curtis
Malcom made an offer, was rejected.

CURRENT
Monday 15/9/15: Consilium Meeting



REALITY ALTERATIONS


Each month is now exactly 30 days long, the year is now exactly 360 days long, each full moon occurs exactly on the 15th.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-05, 11:56 AM
There's no way that's Covert!
New Zealand charity teaches rescue-dogs to drive cars. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20614593)

Anarion
2012-12-05, 12:02 PM
There's no way that's Covert!
New Zealand charity teaches rescue-dogs to drive cars. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20614593)

"No people or animals were harmed during the making of this film."

So, the dogs must have a much lower accident rate than regular human drivers. :smallbiggrin:

Anarion
2012-12-05, 07:18 PM
Hey, guess what? I found an abyssal manifestation. (http://twinbeardstudios.com/230_huggy-bear) And it was just lying around the Internet. Who would have guessed?

Thanqol
2012-12-05, 07:25 PM
There's no way that's Covert!
New Zealand charity teaches rescue-dogs to drive cars. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20614593)

There's no way that's Covert!, issue 98

Supernal Magic and Paradox perfectly visually represented. (http://youtu.be/--dmLwKs_Ww)

That guy is the entire Atlantean Diamond.

Thanqol
2012-12-05, 09:10 PM
From the Internet:



To expand on my posts from earlier, every Path to the last has a sort of defining tragedy or internal contradiction, a clash between its powers and symbology that makes it just slightly uncomfortable as a setting element.

For the Obrimos, it's the fact that the domain of angels is defined by empty, callous power, that you fly up to the throne of God and grasp the flames of heaven in your hand and, well, enjoy, if you were strong enough to get here you must deserve it, right? In theory the Obrimos are righteous and just, but in practice their Watchtower is a finely tooled objectivist factory. And, of course, nothing in the actual Obrimos skillset enables them to judge what they ought to do, but rather to do whatever they want so long as it involves leveraging insane amounts of force.

For the Mastigos, it's the fact that Arcana that should in theory bring tranquility and connectedness are instead rooted in a place of torment and nightmare. Certainly, some people come through the agony strengthened and purified, but what about the ones who don't? Do you really want mages thinking that the natural way to improve someone is to punish and torture them, anyway? And, of course, the actual powers of the Mastigos tend to revolve around binding, control, and manipulation - it's not actually true that their Arcana set them free, because after all they work on the basis of complex webs of sympathetic connections. Rather, being a warlock means getting to hold the chains rather than wear them.

Those are the two Resolve-based Paths, the ones whose mystery plays you pass through raw will and psychic fortitude. You earn cosmic power by being enough of a pushy *******; it's extremely flattering to you, personally. Then you've got the three Composure paths, whose mystery plays you survive through acceptance and adaptation rather than white-knuckled determination. The thing is, their Path realms are all hostile to ordinary human endeavor in a number of ways, so the only way you get to join their ranks is to internalize and accept on a soul-deep level truths that are extremely unflattering to humanity as a whole.

The Acanthus are detached and solipsistic. On top of the cruel amorality of their Path realm is the fact that Acanthus powers and philosophy render the story more important than the characters, and call into question the extent to which an Acanthus is living in the same world as the people around them. Enchanters manipulate the narrative directly rather than, like, leading actual lives and making actual decisions. They're stuck Storytelling no matter how much they'd like to be PCs.

The Thyrsus are on the path of ecstasy. Their path is about going with the flow and being chill, and is definitely not about overthinking things or engaging in analysis rather than action or reaction. So, beyond the typical "oh no, this is nothing like Bambi" nature-red-in-tooth-and-claw stuff that we already know about the natural/spirit world from Werewolf, you've also got the fact that being a Thyrsus and mutating your body beyond recognition or pulling the spiritual into the physical or vice versa just sort of, feels good, and is basically easy, and just sort of intuitive.

Meanwhile, the Moros get really owned because it's an understanding fundamental to their path that death means change and transformation, and that what is lost in death or any other one-way change is unimportant in comparison to whatever new thing has bloomed, etcetera... but then what the Moros actually get power over is the metaphysically trivial lifeless remnants that remain in the wake of enlightening, transformative transition. They watch the baby get carried off and claim dominion over the bathwater. Whether what they take from this experience is that many of the things we hold to be precious are in fact worthless garbage, to be used or discarded according to utility only, or that many of the things we hold to be precious are incomparably fragile and fleeting is up to them, but either way being a Moros kind of blows.

It was when I read the basic Path descriptions in some preview magazine thingy that I really fell in love with Awakening, and I basically have mega levels of care w/r/t the mythic themes that accompany the various Path arcana. I think that the more the game maintains that Obrimos draw strength from angels and Mastigos from demons, rather than that Obrimos draw strength from abstract representations of energy and power that may or may not resemble angels and Mastigos from abstract representations of mental turmoil that may or may not resemble demons, the cooler it is.

Anarion
2012-12-05, 11:10 PM
<3 Thanqol. I'm smiling so much right now reading Errant's order. The best part is that, if Tessen finds out, she'll be really devastated, totally independent from whether Turing does it or not.

SiuiS
2012-12-05, 11:47 PM
Dear Skyscraper Graveyard,

Hi. I'm here to tell you that failure is awesome. Or it can be.
A complex series of events, which is actually not complex at all but it sounds better that way, have led to Thanqol having a Minotaur pour him a drink, Thanqol not spilling the drink, the Minotaur not spilling the bar, the bar spilling the Minotaur, me trying to lift the Minotaur, the Minotaur lifting me, trying to pin the minotaur and instead pulling a reverse Marillyn Monroe with my knickers to the sky while Thanqol looks for a place to set his now empty alcohol cup. I may or may not become a bludgeoning tool, and if so I may I may not provide enough of a bonus to get through Thanqol's defense of 8, and either way things look like I may be rolling a new character or perhaps sitting our for a while.

And it is the most hilarious thing I've been through in a game in about five years, barring that time I Monty Python'd a group of bounty hunters by misinterpreting everything they said for thirty minutes until their quarry escaped and the DM literally threw a book at me.

Sometimes, damn the consequences! Be the little girl wrestling the Minotaur!
Just... Just don't let him drop you. That's a lot of glass down there.



Also thread relevant stuff!


So, I'm still trying to write a paper on law and philosophy, thinking about Mage kinda at the same time, and it's late at night right now. Therefore, I'm going to muse here randomly and you should all feel free to ignore this post unless you have a desire to debate moral philosophy.

So, what's mucking with my head right now is how people actually make decisions. This is purely descriptive, I don't give a crap how they should be making decisions. But then, I do give a crap how they present the way they're making decisions. This is confusing already, ugh.

Let me give a concrete example: when a judge says it's unconstitutional t shout fire in a crowded theater, there are three things going on there. The observable predictive phenomena is that the judge probably voted according to political and/or personal preference. In other words, the judge's best friend probably could have predicted the vote beforehand because he knew the guy.

The normative, which I care jack squat about right now and am only mentioning for comparison, is that he shouldn't be choosing that way because most people think that legal decisions should be based on some kind of consistent system, not the whims of the individual.

The one that's messing with me is that he lies in his writing when he explains why he ruled the way he did. And everyone agrees that him lying is the best thing ever. Admitting that he made a personal/political decision would delegitimize the system, therefore the decision must be justified on some kind of textual and systemic grounds that are not actually predictive of future decisions (or if they are, they're worse predictors than personal/political observations).*

But fine, we love it when people lie for the greater good, classic moral problem. My issue, which I'm trying to write about, is how the heck do you classify this kind of thing? It applies to more than just judges. I think mages do it all the time. The Free Counsel practically epitomizes it, where they're trying to do good for the world and espouse their whole egalitarian thing, but then they're the goddamn terrorists and the Seers that prevent the Free Counsel from blowing up the train full of people would have been the good guys.*

It's this weird cognitive dissonance thing where you're literally aware of two conflicting viewpoints at the same time and you deny neither of them yet are perfectly comfortable moving forwards. That is, making law, or making radical magical decisions seems to require that you actively abandon rationality in favor of deception in order to perpetuate a series of abstract goals at the expense of logic.*

The worst part for the law thing is that the bloody judges keep calling each other out over this, which would completely defeat the entire enterprise except that their writing is so dense that nobody except the experts who have bought into the system bother to read anything they write directly. They don't even all agree that they're doing the same thing! I can literally picture the debate where you've got two mage cabals planning two different experiments over the same magical sanctum or hallow or whatever and each side starts accusing the other of not understanding magic at all. Then they start debating the contents of each ritual, but since neither side agrees about what the other intends to do they're not even actually talking to each other, they're talking to their straw man opinions about how stupid the other mages are, and by the end of it they've probably worked out that they need to put down the insane fools on the other end of the room before they plunge everyone into the abyss.


@ Anarion: If you're going down that rabbit hole it only really stops at the Philosophy of Language. According to many philosophies of language, most - almost all! - statements are lies or invalid. They fail any sort of logical structure or test. And yet, we can use them to communicate perfectly! We use lies to tell the truth.

Huge swathes of human social structures are lies, but they're convenient lies and they produce useful results so it's worth maintaining those lies as a substitute for (impossible to attain) perfect communication. This is also why we tell stories about ponies. Ponies is lies, but those lies tell true stories.


The lie of a logical constitutional process is valuable because it stops judges behaving in an arbitrary way, and providing a useful counterargument to apply against those who go off the rails. There may be no actual respect or application of the logical constitutional process other than as a way to slap down those who go too far against the collective consensus. But if the collective consensus allows through an invalid extrapolation, like the fire in a theatre thing, then those involved have successfully appealed to a deeper level of moral understanding (virtues) which hold more sway than mechanistic logic. A huge number of decisions and exceptions are founded on these deeper virtues, which is partly why I'm such a huge proponent of Virtue Theory.


So if the two mage cabals teamed up on the ritual both basically believe, deep down, that "Everyone Has The Right To Be Happy" then they can engage in a stunning act of hypocrisy and work together despite their conflicting philosophical positions and incompatible magical understandings to produce an effect that makes people happy. However, if their underlying principle isn't the same then they'll use the codified philosophy as higher level arguments when the concern is on a much lower level of values. Also, poor communication can get people stuck on higher philosophies even when lower values are compatible

Huh.

What of people who attempt to internalize? That judges personal and political preferences are informed, at least nominally, by perhaps strongly, by the Consistent system that people normally believe such things are formed by? Is it still a lie for him to decide by personal preference when his personal preference is to follow the system, within it's Bounds? Perfect efficiency is impossible. There's a minimum threshold above qualifiers thing*qualifies. so long as the judge's action an declaration meet a minimum amount of being based on a consistent and objective system, then hasn't he? You need a base zero, but it has to be a realistic zero.

It's like those discussions that end in the inability for a person to make an altruistic decision, because you always get something out of it even if it's a nominal relief from the guilt you would have experienced. But that just means "utterly without benefit" would be a negative on the number scale, not 0.*

Y'know?


Went through the entire IC thread to refresh my memory. Actually been some really good writing there, I'm very happy with how this game is working out.

Oh, I've decided to do something useful and publically keep track of news headlines, notebook prophecies, and timetable information in a centrally linked post

PROPHECIES

Rebecca d'Payens - "A beautifully made sword that craves a scabbard."

Detective Slade - "The price of his redemption is tragedy, madness and blood."

The Devil's Triangle - "What seems a matter of Holy and Unholy really comes down to Ambition and Jealousy."

Belle Island - "Its design was never realised and its power never unlocked."

Father Prichard - "Blinding light must be met with blind faith, even if one has no idea what one is praying to."

The Plate - "A simple ritual perverted"

The Jerusalem Man - "The hoax that will save the Holy Land"

Tessen - "An empty cup can be filled, a broken cup is useless"



NEWS HEADLINES

Warf Tower Butcher Still At Large

"The brutal murder of Detroit crime kingpin "Mardie Black" and six others on the top floor of the Warf Tower is subject to ongoing investigation by the FBI. Normally, law enforcement would dismiss bloodshed like this as gang violence, but the brutal nature of the stabbings and the ritual scalping of the dead has given the FBI reason to believe that they may be dealing with a serial killer."

Iran Sends Warships To Close the Persian Gulf

"Four Iranian warships have blockaded the Persian Gulf, following escalation with Saudi Arabia over the civil war in Syria. The UN has condemned the move as a breach of international law, and the United States has ordered Iran to remove the warships or they will consider it an act of war. The White House has issued a statement saying that 'All options are currently on the table'."

Hero Cop Ends Hostage Standoff

"Special Officer Longarm, a local SWAT sniper, ended a four hour hostage standoff last night when he killed both criminals with a single bullet after negotiations had broken down. Authorities say that Officer Longarm was not given a direct order to take the shot, but his quick thinking and initiative undoubtedly saved the lives of four children and two women. Special Officer Longarm is to be presented with a medal for his bravery."

UN Casualties in Greece

"Anarchy continues to rule in Greece after the catastrophic exit from the Euro, driving the death toll still higher. Four UN Peacekeepers were killed by an explosion in Athens last night following heavy austerity protests. Some experts have declared Greece to be a "Failed state" and recommended an expansion of the UN program."

Congress Holds AI Hearings

"Following the recent public demonstration of the Artificial Intelligence, Deep Black, which Intel states is "capable of fully replicating the functions of a human brain", the United States Congress has ordered a special committee to evaluate the AI's intelligence and independent decision making to answer the question of if they should grant the entity's request for US citizenship. Anti-AI protesters rallied outside Capitol Hill, perhaps concerned that this is the first sign of the robot apocalypse."

TIMETABLE


ONGOING

Concilium meetings every month on the 15th

LOCAL:

Tuesday: 1/9/15
Incidents:*
The Church
Many meetings

Wednesday: 2/9/15*
Incidents:
The Plate

Thursday: 3/9/15:*
Incidents:*
Tessen learned Spirit
Meeting with Cyprus
Encounter with Overlord
Acquired the XM-44

Friday: 4/9/15 CURRENT
Incidents:
Fight with the Zombies
Death of Slade

Saturday: 5/9/15 Nothing

Sunday: 6/9/15*
- Tessen needs to give a talk at the Church
- Help the Speakeasy Society

...

Wednesday 10/9/15 Date with Errant

...

Monday 15/9/15: Consilium Meeting



REALITY ALTERATIONS


Each month is now exactly 30 days long, the year is now exactly 360 days long, each full moon occurs exactly on the 15th.*


... *steals*

Deadly
2012-12-06, 06:43 AM
At first, this entire concert (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9den7x-dXKI) made me think of some kind of Thursus ritual. Warning, Sepultura is real Heavy, but the first 5 minute intro-thingy is pretty cool, in my totally humble opinion, and totally reminds me of our own little exorcism jazz thingy. All it needs is Turing up front stage telling the spirit to get the buck out of our party! Or perhaps in this case more like telling all the spirits to come join the party? I'm still trying to figure out what is going on, but it's definitely got an uplifting feel to me.



So anyway, did Tessen tell the others about Cyprus yet? Can't recall



Also, poor Tessen and Turing :smallbiggrin:



Also, thanks for the summary, Thanqol. That's great to have

Anarion
2012-12-06, 10:00 AM
I believe Tessen brought Cyprus up in passing, but didn't explain the details due to being distraught over Slade's family.

Anarion
2012-12-07, 01:01 PM
DD, you have to start high speech the turn before casting. Though I guess Errant hasn't actually drawn a weapon yet. But if Edelachtbare breaks your neck or something, the shield won't be up yet.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-07, 01:03 PM
If Edelachtbare wants to snap Turings neck, chances are the shield won't help anyway. I figure it's more a very deliberate statement of intent, especially with a couple of seconds of atlantian chanting preceeding it.

Anarion
2012-12-07, 01:07 PM
If Edelachtbare wants to snap Turings neck, chances are the shield won't help anyway. I figure it's more a very deliberate statement of intent, especially with a couple of seconds of atlantian chanting preceeding it.

Starting high speech could be dangerous though. That's several seconds where they don't know what spell you're going to cast. What if Errant interpreted it as preparation for an attack and responds with an attack of her own, rather than preparation for a shield? Hopefully saying "take your best shot" alleviates her fear there, but Guardians do lie, from time to time.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-07, 01:11 PM
I was going to suggest that the only safe response is probably to go kill Tessen, but then I remembered that being a failed guardian is probably part of why Slade was chosen for the red veil. Oh, and trying to kill Tessen is asking for all manner of paradox rolls, I figure too. :smallwink:

Anarion
2012-12-07, 01:29 PM
I was going to suggest that the only safe response is probably to go kill Tessen, but then I remembered that being a failed guardian is probably part of why Slade was chosen for the red veil. Oh, and trying to kill Tessen is asking for all manner of paradox rolls, I figure too. :smallwink:

Well, on a personal note, I was kinda hoping Turing would try it. The hypothetical Tessen/Turing face-off would be really interesting. This is purely out of game though, I don't think it would make any sense for Turing to agree IC, and if he did agree, Tessen would probably just let him shoot her.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-07, 01:32 PM
That would be hilarious.
Cause, I can only imagine that if Turing did agree, it would be in such a way as to allow Tessen to fight back and beat him, thereby warning her whilst not betraying his order.
So it'd end up all;

"Tessen, you've gone too far. I'm under orders to kill you."
"I... I'm sorry I was such a bother... Ok."
"...What do you mean, Ok?"
*awkward silence*

the_druid_droid
2012-12-07, 06:30 PM
Well, on a personal note, I was kinda hoping Turing would try it. The hypothetical Tessen/Turing face-off would be really interesting. This is purely out of game though, I don't think it would make any sense for Turing to agree IC, and if he did agree, Tessen would probably just let him shoot her.

There was actually some doubt in my mind about how it would finally go. Turing was in a pretty dark place after shooting Slade. Not so much that he would agree out of hand, he still wanted to discuss things, but he flirted with saying yes. Of course, he would have realized he couldn't do it as soon as he actually got out of interrogation central and saw Tessen in the flesh, but it wasn't 100% until I gave it some thought.

SiuiS
2012-12-07, 06:30 PM
Starting high speech could be dangerous though. That's several seconds where they don't know what spell you're going to cast. What if Errant interpreted it as preparation for an attack and responds with an attack of her own, rather than preparation for a shield? Hopefully saying "take your best shot" alleviates her fear there, but Guardians do lie, from time to time.

From Thanqol's prior stuff, I believe that Turing is now chanting about shielding, specifically, in Atlantean. So it's not entirely impossible to figure out. Jayden's incantations are all specifically anime-style spells after all. Or charger's. Hmm.


That would be hilarious.
Cause, I can only imagine that if Turing did agree, it would be in such a way as to allow Tessen to fight back and beat him, thereby warning her whilst not betraying his order.
So it'd end up all;

"Tessen, you've gone too far. I'm under orders to kill you."
"I... I'm sorry I was such a bother... Ok."
"...What do you mean, Ok?"
*awkward silence*

*clip drops* "oh no, your forces magic has unbulleted my gun. I cannot shoot you."
"oh, here! Let me help you." *retrieves clip*
"... You're really bad at this..."
"oh, I'm sorry Turing. I didn't mean to be a bother. All the more reason to shoot me I guess..."

the_druid_droid
2012-12-07, 06:32 PM
From Thanqol's prior stuff, I believe that Turing is now chanting about shielding, specifically, in Atlantean. So it's not entirely impossible to figure out. Jayden's incantations are all specifically anime-style spells after all. Or charger's. Hmm.

Yeah, I enjoyed the flavor text Thanqol gave for the Atlantean that Cyprus spoke, so I thought I'd roll in that direction here too. Adds a bit of a thematic flair.

Deadly
2012-12-07, 06:48 PM
You guys be c-crazy! :smalltongue:




So anyway, this Academics roll, is that one roll for us all or one roll each? Not that I think Amun could do much to help here, since he doesn't have a single dot in Academics (surprisingly enough given his background, come to think of it).

Thanqol
2012-12-07, 07:11 PM
So anyway, this Academics roll, is that one roll for us all or one roll each? Not that I think Amun could do much to help here, since he doesn't have a single dot in Academics (surprisingly enough given his background, come to think of it).

You are probably better opting to not roll chance dices here.

Anyone with positive dice pools can contribute to the success pile.


From Thanqol's prior stuff, I believe that Turing is now chanting about shielding, specifically, in Atlantean. So it's not entirely impossible to figure out. Jayden's incantations are all specifically anime-style spells after all. Or charger's. Hmm.

Anime style what?

Deadly
2012-12-07, 07:28 PM
You are probably better opting to not roll chance dices here.

Anyone with positive dice pools can contribute to the success pile.

Aye. Don't like chance dice

Amun could just leave this to Tessen, but I can't shake off the feeling that that would be the boring option.

Thanqol
2012-12-07, 07:39 PM
Aye. Don't like chance dice

Amun could just leave this to Tessen, but I can't shake off the feeling that that would be the boring option.

Help with magic!

Deadly
2012-12-07, 07:45 PM
Help with magic!

It's funny, I was thinking of some Fate magic as I typed that up, but I always feel like a giant cheat whenever I use magic. I know, it's crazy and dumb, since we're damn Mages and it's how the system works, but ... man, I feel like the greatest cheat every time I solve a mundane problem with magic :smallredface:

Anarion
2012-12-07, 08:15 PM
It's funny, I was thinking of some Fate magic as I typed that up, but I always feel like a giant cheat whenever I use magic. I know, it's crazy and dumb, since we're damn Mages and it's how the system works, but ... man, I feel like the greatest cheat every time I solve a mundane problem with magic :smallredface:

Thanqol, you should be worried. Between this and Jack's whole "do the right thing" schtick, there's a chance we don't all go crazy.

Anarion
2012-12-07, 08:25 PM
So...what did Errant do there to get 15 dice on an attack and split her table in half in the same instant?

Thanqol
2012-12-07, 08:28 PM
Thanqol, you should be worried. Between this and Jack's whole "do the right thing" schtick, there's a chance we don't all go crazy.

Citizen Kane wasn't an bastard at the start of his movie.


So...what did Errant do there to get 15 dice on an attack and split her table in half in the same instant?

Turing didn't have Life or Prime sight up so he didn't get access to that data.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-07, 08:29 PM
Turing didn't have Life or Prime sight up so he didn't get access to that data.

I really need to get one or both of these as a rote...

Anarion
2012-12-07, 08:29 PM
Turing didn't have Life or Prime sight up so he didn't get access to that data.

I'm asking OOC. Maybe I want someone in Hong Kong to have such capabilities. <_< >_>

Thanqol
2012-12-07, 08:35 PM
I'm asking OOC. Maybe I want someone in Hong Kong to have such capabilities. <_< >_>

Honing Spell+Legacy. The table breaking was a side effect.

SiuiS
2012-12-07, 10:52 PM
So...what did Errant do there to get 15 dice on an attack and split her table in half in the same instant?

Strength 2 plus strength 5 (honing) plus talons 2 plus brawl 5 plus natural weapon specialty 1 I would imagine. Or less strength an more skill enhancement maybe.

I wasn't kidding when I said Areta would deal with werewolves on their own terms. Aping a Gauru with magic requires life 4 and spirit 3. Congratulations, you've made another splat go from distinct species with valid goals and dreams to a costume you put on when actually thinking through your problems is a bother.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-08, 12:41 AM
From Thanqol's prior stuff, I believe that Turing is now chanting about shielding, specifically, in Atlantean. So it's not entirely impossible to figure out. Jayden's incantations are all specifically anime-style spells after all. Or charger's. Hmm.



*clip drops* "oh no, your forces magic has unbulleted my gun. I cannot shoot you."
"oh, here! Let me help you." *retrieves clip*
"... You're really bad at this..."
"oh, I'm sorry Turing. I didn't mean to be a bother. All the more reason to shoot me I guess..."

Exactly this.

Anarion
2012-12-08, 12:44 AM
I'm waiting for the follow-up where Errant is like "Okay, I'm done welcoming you to the Guardians, great job passing the black veil. By the way, one more paradox and you really should shoot Tessen."

the_druid_droid
2012-12-08, 12:46 AM
I'm waiting for the follow-up where Errant is like "Okay, I'm done welcoming you to the Guardians, great job passing the black veil. By the way, one more paradox and you really should shoot Tessen."

The good news is that Tessen channels enough Fluttershy that he wouldn't be able to do it unless she was to the point of being a Pardox-leaking Scelestus, basically.

Actually, considering possible end-games, maybe that isn't such a good thing.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-08, 12:48 AM
I'm interpreting the between-the-lines moral of the story, in that regard, as being that Turing has to be prepared to do what it takes. If he decides that what needs to happen is that Tessen is made safe then so be it. But that if someone else tries to order it, he is morally obliged to tell them to stuff it.

SiuiS
2012-12-08, 12:49 AM
Trusted face, Gauru talons, kindred speed. I don't think Turin will ever actually be told to shoot Tessen. Worst comes to worst, his death sight will pick up curiously sparse clues as to what exactly has the claws and teeth to leave poor Tessen's corpus in such a state.

Besides, until you cause a manifestation it's not really a bother. Their job is kill abyssal incursions, not stop people from screwing up, right? Very last resort wet work.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-08, 12:52 AM
I think I'm parsing it through my memories of the 90's X-Men cartoon and stuff like that.
Specifically, "We take care of our own", and the idea that you look out for each other against the world but also that if one of your own goes bad, that's your responsibility too and no-one elses.

Anarion
2012-12-08, 01:09 AM
Besides, until you cause a manifestation it's not really a bother. Their job is kill abyssal incursions, not stop people from screwing up, right? Very last resort wet work.

I'm not so sure about this. It's true that an anomaly only lasts like 20 minutes. But look at this one. It wrecked a whole city block and, even though they probably won't bring it up, indebted us to the Seers of the Throne for the cleanup. Every mage in the city knows about it now, and there's a reasonable chance that the entire area's resonance got smashed to kingdom come forever.

A few teensy little havocs now and then probably don't matter, since they just throw off the spell and then go away. But even then, if you're pulling the abyss into reality all the time, it's gonna mess some stuff up.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-08, 01:10 AM
I'm interpreting the between-the-lines moral of the story, in that regard, as being that Turing has to be prepared to do what it takes. If he decides that what needs to happen is that Tessen is made safe then so be it. But that if someone else tries to order it, he is morally obliged to tell them to stuff it.

Sort of. It might be that they're right in ordering it. In that case, he might agree (but see below). The issue is more what Thanqol pointed out in the IC - the thin line that separates the Throne from the Guardians is that Seers are expected to acquiesce to orders from on high, because power is its own justification, while Guardians must always be conscious of whether or not an order should be followed.


Besides, until you cause a manifestation it's not really a bother. Their job is kill abyssal incursions, not stop people from screwing up, right? Very last resort wet work.

Again, the balance of the Guardians is that they absolutely will kill you, if it comes to that. At the same time, they don't want to go around killing people, particularly Mages willy-nilly. So yeah, it's a last-resort thing; not only are you hemorrhaging Paradox, you've committed yourself to it, or you've adopted a Left-Handed Path, etc.


I think I'm parsing it through my memories of the 90's X-Men cartoon and stuff like that.
Specifically, "We take care of our own", and the idea that you look out for each other against the world but also that if one of your own goes bad, that's your responsibility too and no-one elses.

I think this might apply more within the Guardians, than within their cabals. They have that golden rule "Never betray your cabal" (which is also why Turing wouldn't have killed Tessen, especially without more justification). So unless Turing were to decide of his own free will that it was his responsibility to deal with Tessen, I don't think he would ever consent to being the chief actor in her death, merely qua Guardian.

Anarion
2012-12-08, 01:17 AM
Again, the balance of the Guardians is that they absolutely will kill you, if it comes to that. At the same time, they don't want to go around killing people, particularly Mages willy-nilly. So yeah, it's a last-resort thing; not only are you hemorrhaging Paradox, you've committed yourself to it, or you've adopted a Left-Handed Path, etc.


Also, if you're getting to the must kill point, I think it would be pretty obvious. I would expect frequent invocation of the abyss to lead to wisdom degeneration, which is usually followed by a whole lot of crazy. The situation becomes a little different if you've got Tessen ranting about how she's going to summon the grand god Yog Sothoth who will devour all reality and her eyes are glowing green or something

the_druid_droid
2012-12-08, 01:47 AM
Also, if you're getting to the must kill point, I think it would be pretty obvious. I would expect frequent invocation of the abyss to lead to wisdom degeneration, which is usually followed by a whole lot of crazy. The situation becomes a little different if you've got Tessen ranting about how she's going to summon the grand god Yog Sothoth who will devour all reality and her eyes are glowing green or something

Yeah, this would be filed under "extenuating circumstances".

In semi-related news, I'm starting to wonder if Turing needs to start carving notches into his cane for every time he dies. This isn't the sort of thing I thought would be necessary, but it keeps happening.

SiuiS
2012-12-08, 02:18 AM
I'm not so sure about this. It's true that an anomaly only lasts like 20 minutes. But look at this one. It wrecked a whole city block and, even though they probably won't bring it up, indebted us to the Seers of the Throne for the cleanup. Every mage in the city knows about it now, and there's a reasonable chance that the entire area's resonance got smashed to kingdom come forever.

A few teensy little havocs now and then probably don't matter, since they just throw off the spell and then go away. But even then, if you're pulling the abyss into reality all the time, it's gonna mess some stuff up.

Mm. Not the guardians, the quiet. The quiet are cleanup. Turing is the only guardian around whose job is predisaster maintenance.

It's like the police; by the time the SWAT and the snipers are deployed, you're past the give them a ticket and send them on their way point – and if a SWAT officer sees you double park, he isn't going to care. He might report you to a traffic officer, but not pull a ticket pad out of his armor. It's not his department.


Yeah, this would be filed under "extenuating circumstances".

In semi-related news, I'm starting to wonder if Turing needs to start carving notches into his cane for every time he dies. This isn't the sort of thing I thought would be necessary, but it keeps happening.

"Seventeen?" The beast laughs from its many mouths. "Is that supposed to impress me sorcerer? Is that how many manifestations you have put down, puny mortal?"

"no," he replied, lighting a cigar. "It's how many times manifestations have put me down. The notches for ghosts are on the other end–" the sorcerer flips his cane, revealing crisscrossing gouges in the almost-pewter metal of the cane's tip. "–And I have a few notches in my belt for other things. Now let's talk business. How many times have you died and come back?"

Thanqol
2012-12-08, 04:25 AM
I'm waiting for the follow-up where Errant is like "Okay, I'm done welcoming you to the Guardians, great job passing the black veil. By the way, one more paradox and you really should shoot Tessen."

Again, you've got no idea how amazingly saintly Tessen is in comparison to the people the Quiet fight, full time.

They'd kind of like Turing to wave a stern finger at her, but they're not going to start killing the person who makes paradoxes by accident when the people deliberately replacing their souls with abyssal entities are right over there.

She's on The List, sure, but it's a REALLY long list.


I'm interpreting the between-the-lines moral of the story, in that regard, as being that Turing has to be prepared to do what it takes. If he decides that what needs to happen is that Tessen is made safe then so be it. But that if someone else tries to order it, he is morally obliged to tell them to stuff it.

This (yeah that)


Also, if you're getting to the must kill point, I think it would be pretty obvious. I would expect frequent invocation of the abyss to lead to wisdom degeneration, which is usually followed by a whole lot of crazy. The situation becomes a little different if you've got Tessen ranting about how she's going to summon the grand god Yog Sothoth who will devour all reality and her eyes are glowing green or something

It's not actually necessary to be an insane crazy cultist to be a scelesti (but it helps!).

There are scelesti who arrive at the position through clear logic and sane understanding.


Mm. Not the guardians, the quiet. The quiet are cleanup. Turing is the only guardian around whose job is predisaster maintenance.

It's like the police; by the time the SWAT and the snipers are deployed, you're past the give them a ticket and send them on their way point – and if a SWAT officer sees you double park, he isn't going to care. He might report you to a traffic officer, but not pull a ticket pad out of his armor. It's not his department.

This (yeah that)

Anarion
2012-12-08, 04:33 AM
Thanqol, I think you forgot this

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8ebektHwy1rziwwco1_500.png

Lix Lorn
2012-12-08, 12:58 PM
I'm not so sure about this.
Wait, wait, wait.
A White Wolf game where the different moral viewpoints are compelling enough that the PLAYERS aren't agreeing?
Shocker. :3


In semi-related news, I'm starting to wonder if Turing needs to start carving notches into his cane for every time he dies. This isn't the sort of thing I thought would be necessary, but it keeps happening.
Wait, what? O_o

(Also, what is the 'this' 'yeah that' image from?)

Anarion
2012-12-08, 03:15 PM
(Also, what is the 'this' 'yeah that' image from?)

I don't actually know, I just grabbed it from ponythread. :smallredface:

Deadly
2012-12-08, 03:54 PM
So I'm thinking about what to do, magically. Amun has Shifting the Odds as a rote, so that'd be the most likely to succeed. That'd just be him wandering around in the archive and just randomly stumbling upon something useful, right? That feels even more like cheating than so many other things I can imagine :smallredface: Like, maybe he could grant a bonus on Tessen's next roll instead? But that'd probably be something improvised, meaning less successes, probably

SiuiS
2012-12-08, 04:50 PM
So I'm thinking about what to do, magically. Amun has Shifting the Odds as a rote, so that'd be the most likely to succeed. That'd just be him wandering around in the archive and just randomly stumbling upon something useful, right? That feels even more like cheating than so many other things I can imagine :smallredface: Like, maybe he could grant a bonus on Tessen's next roll instead? But that'd probably be something improvised, meaning less successes, probably

You don't have to think of it as casting a spell and then an effect happens. Amun lives a life of whimsy. You could just focus on your own luk an how awesome it is and oh look, this book is interesting.

Or you could still search. Amin closes his eyes and goes over the possible threads, following them to see which bear fruit, literally researching the effects of his own actions before choosing one.

It's not cheating because you're still putting your effort in. It's as much cheating as practicing before a competition is.

Anarion
2012-12-08, 04:59 PM
It's not cheating because you're still putting your effort in. It's as much cheating as practicing before a competition is.

Eh, spells don't happen by accident. It's true that one's imago of the spell could include an image of hard work as part of it, but you still have to intentionally cast the magic, imagine the ideal of the spell and pull the supernal into reality. That doesn't just happen, it happens by the Mage's intention. It's the basis for all that hubris they suffer because it kinda goes to your head to realize that you literally have the power to shape reality into what you imagine.

Deadly
2012-12-08, 05:01 PM
You don't have to think of it as casting a spell and then an effect happens. Amun lives a life of whimsy. You could just focus on your own luk an how awesome it is and oh look, this book is interesting.

Or you could still search. Amin closes his eyes and goes over the possible threads, following them to see which bear fruit, literally researching the effects of his own actions before choosing one.

It's not cheating because you're still putting your effort in. It's as much cheating as practicing before a competition is.

The first option was what I have in mind. The reason it feels like cheating is because of my stupid sense of team spirit :smalltongue: I mean, I'm sure Amun would relish being the one who just randomly stumbles upon the answer, because he's the prideful Acanthus guy that he is, you know, but I can't help but feel a little bit unfair to everyone else.

Of course I shouldn't let that affect Amun's actions, and also I guess what he finds may be less of "THE Answer!" and more of "Useful bit of info that leads you closer to some answer." But still :smalltongue:

the_druid_droid
2012-12-08, 05:45 PM
Wait, what? O_o


Well, he died once during his Awakening, but that was the part where he decided that there was too much to do to waste time being dead so he came back. Then he died to join the Guardians. Presumably he's got at least one more in store, who knows?

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-08, 06:00 PM
"Seventeen?" The beast laughs from its many mouths. "Is that supposed to impress me sorcerer? Is that how many manifestations you have put down, puny mortal?"

"no," he replied, lighting a cigar. "It's how many times manifestations have put me down. The notches for ghosts are on the other end–" the sorcerer flips his cane, revealing crisscrossing gouges in the almost-pewter metal of the cane's tip. "–And I have a few notches in my belt for other things. Now let's talk business. How many times have you died and come back?"

Okay, now you have to do it, Turing.

Also my fanon is now that one day we'll check his resonance in detail and find out that some incompetant mage tried to curse Turing, fating him to die using a powerful artifact that he didn't really understand. The curse works so well that his Fate will keep insuring he gets better because his fate is so strongly to Die that he can't stay dead.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-08, 06:03 PM
Okay, now you have to do it, Turing.

Also my fanon is now that one day we'll check his resonance in detail and find out that some incompetant mage tried to curse Turing, fating him to die using a powerful artifact that he didn't really understand. The curse works so well that his Fate will keep insuring he gets better because his fate is so strongly to Die that he can't stay dead.

That's - actually, that's pretty awesome. I would totally be ok with this scenario.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-08, 06:09 PM
Isn't shifting the odds that one rote that pretty much points you where you need to go or something? Seems pretty appropriate.

Also, of course Amun should rock out and go for it, dice allowing.
Because, you know.
Going straight to the book as the academic flounders is SO Acanthus. (http://youtu.be/rwIEyOiw4lo)

Deadly
2012-12-08, 06:22 PM
Isn't shifting the odds that one rote that pretty much points you where you need to go or something? Seems pretty appropriate.

Also, of course Amun should rock out and go for it, dice allowing.
Because, you know.
Going straight to the book as the academic flounders is SO Acanthus. (http://youtu.be/rwIEyOiw4lo)

You have me convinced, sir :smallcool:

Thanqol
2012-12-08, 06:44 PM
So I'm thinking about what to do, magically. Amun has Shifting the Odds as a rote, so that'd be the most likely to succeed. That'd just be him wandering around in the archive and just randomly stumbling upon something useful, right? That feels even more like cheating than so many other things I can imagine :smallredface: Like, maybe he could grant a bonus on Tessen's next roll instead? But that'd probably be something improvised, meaning less successes, probably

If you'll read the description of shifting the odds, it comes with enough leeway/consequences to make it dramatically interesting.

Remember, being a Fate mage is a bit like being a Storyteller. You are fully entitled to make decrees like "And then, this happens!". That's how your magic works and the power you get in place of being able to throw fireballs or raise the dead. Don't be shy about using it.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-08, 06:45 PM
Talked into doing it by Pinkie Pie or not, you somehow managed to channel the discworld witches at the same time there I think, Deadly.

Thanqol
2012-12-08, 06:47 PM
Talked into doing it by Pinkie Pie or not, you somehow managed to channel the discworld witches at the same time there I think, Deadly.

I need Jack's real name pronto (or whatever name his resources are in); you haven't written it down anywhere.

Deadly
2012-12-08, 06:50 PM
If you'll read the description of shifting the odds, it comes with enough leeway/consequences to make it dramatically interesting.

Remember, being a Fate mage is a bit like being a Storyteller. You are fully entitled to make decrees like "And then, this happens!". That's how your magic works and the power you get in place of being able to throw fireballs or raise the dead. Don't be shy about using it.

I'll try. It's mostly an OOC feeling of cheating, rather than an IC one. Amun definitely doesn't feel like he's cheating.

I also feel like a total cheat every time I use Mage Sight, because it's completely free to use and can't really fail to tell you everything except due to special circumstances (like Tyler's hammer messing up the whole view)


Talked into doing it by Pinkie Pie or not, you somehow managed to channel the discworld witches at the same time there I think, Deadly.

"Because Pinkie Pie" is best argument.

And thanks :smallbiggrin:

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-08, 06:55 PM
I need Jack's real name pronto (or whatever name his resources are in); you haven't written it down anywhere.

Edited into Stats post.

Anarion
2012-12-08, 06:58 PM
I also feel like a total cheat every time I use Mage Sight, because it's completely free to use and can't really fail to tell you everything except due to special circumstances (like Tyler's hammer messing up the whole view)




Mage sight, specifically, is quite limited because of all the different arcana. You can read resonance with any type of mage sight if you have time to sit around, but each variation of mage sight does very different things and you can only have a couple up at once due to spell tolerance and gnosis limitations. The whole point of having a subset of mage sights is that you get information related to your particular specialty while being totally ignorant of what people with other specialties know.

Deadly
2012-12-08, 07:07 PM
Mage sight, specifically, is quite limited because of all the different arcana. You can read resonance with any type of mage sight if you have time to sit around, but each variation of mage sight does very different things and you can only have a couple up at once due to spell tolerance and gnosis limitations. The whole point of having a subset of mage sights is that you get information related to your particular specialty while being totally ignorant of what people with other specialties know.

I know, it's not "learn everything for free," but it's still pretty darned useful, and it's free (at least if it's your Ruling Arcana or a rote) so you could essentially have it up all the time, constantly, never missing anything that your Mage Sight would tell you.

It reminds me of the classic D&D joke about the players checking for traps every step. EVERY step. Because it's free to do, and while maybe all they learn is "you don't notice any traps" it's still lame, you know? :smalltongue: That's the feeling I get whenever I say "I look around with Prime Vision" or whatever. It may not apply to Mage, and I may not be abusing the system at all, but I can't shake off the association anyway.

Lix Lorn
2012-12-08, 07:17 PM
Well, he died once during his Awakening, but that was the part where he decided that there was too much to do to waste time being dead so he came back. Then he died to join the Guardians. Presumably he's got at least one more in store, who knows?
I...
How does that work? Is death not permanent?

Anarion
2012-12-08, 07:21 PM
I...
How does that work? Is death not permanent?

The first time was part of his awakening process to the realm that includes death, so it was wrapped up in all sorts of crazy spirit journey mumbo-jumbo.

The second time, it was inducting him fully to the Guardians of the veil, and we have no proof that he actually died, merely that Errant stabbed him hard enough to be dying.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-08, 07:30 PM
I...
How does that work? Is death not permanent?

Death is increadibly permenant, even for mages.

That's what makes it such a good running joke for Turing. :smallsmile:

Lix Lorn
2012-12-08, 08:01 PM
I... see.
(does not see)
MAGES ARE CONFUSING

the_druid_droid
2012-12-08, 08:40 PM
Death is increadibly permenant, even for mages.

Not having any starting materials, I think you need at least Death 5, Life 5, and Mind 5 to stitch someone back together. That's also ignoring all the potential complications with the Ghost in the Shell theory, or the fact that without having a body or mind map of the living person, there may be some irregularities in their reconstituted form...


That's what makes it such a good running joke for Turing. :smallsmile:

Well, he's also a stubborn ass at times, and so the fact that he's been at the brink and made his way back X number of times is a point of pride for him.

SiuiS
2012-12-08, 09:03 PM
Eh, spells don't happen by accident. It's true that one's imago of the spell could include an image of hard work as part of it, but you still have to intentionally cast the magic, imagine the ideal of the spell and pull the supernal into reality. That doesn't just happen, it happens by the Mage's intention. It's the basis for all that hubris they suffer because it kinda goes to your head to realize that you literally have the power to shape reality into what you imagine.

I actually had a three paragraph blurb about this which I removed because I thought including it wasn't ancillary and would start this exact debate. I seem to notice threads of fate but am inept at manipulating them XD

This forum is literally a sleeper expression of Space and Time. That feeling you get in a dark alley that makes you run but keeps you from walking into an ambush is Life. Jumbo jets are sleeper application of Force. A well formed piece of rhetoric is mundane Mind magic. Being aware of magi is kind of like being genre savvy or aware of your own ruleset.

An acanthus could close his eyes and focus really hardon making arching come true... Or it coul be a vivid daydream that happens to be a valid prediction (the daydream being the imago, justified as a prediction after the fact). Acanthii are the mages most likely to accidentally stumble over the lost pittbull worth hundreds in reward money. How they feel that happened, either spell work from a month ago finally coming to fruition or mere serendipity is really about how the character sees things.


Okay, now you have to do it, Turing.

Also my fanon is now that one day we'll check his resonance in detail and find out that some incompetant mage tried to curse Turing, fating him to die using a powerful artifact that he didn't really understand. The curse works so well that his Fate will keep insuring he gets better because his fate is so strongly to Die that he can't stay dead.

Huh. That's really cool. Specialized Destiny Merit? Can you pick up destiny after chargen?


I know, it's not "learn everything for free," but it's still pretty darned useful, and it's free (at least if it's your Ruling Arcana or a rote) so you could essentially have it up all the time, constantly, never missing anything that your Mage Sight would tell you.

It reminds me of the classic D&D joke about the players checking for traps every step. EVERY step. Because it's free to do, and while maybe all they learn is "you don't notice any traps" it's still lame, you know? :smalltongue: That's the feeling I get whenever I say "I look around with Prime Vision" or whatever. It may not apply to Mage, and I may not be abusing the system at all, but I can't shake off the association anyway.

Looking for traps like that is a joke very specifically because it misses its own point. There's always a cost. You move five feet every ten minutes, then trouble finds you or avoids you. Can't save a princess if she's been dead for a week. Plus the ST could just factor that in. Get one roll for the area and have them move at sufficiently low speed to expedite. Or after a bad ambush point out that thumping rocks, jabbing sticks into holes and basically sitting on your plot in a populated dungeon is asking to be snuck up on.


I...
How does that work? Is death not permanent?

Moros have near death experiences to awaken, usually. Their heart stops, they aren't breathing, their brain begins to wind down, and they skip past the psychopomp and skirt the underworld, to arrive at Stygia, realm of platonic Death as an ideal of finity, transition and change through endings. They come back, often with a "being dead sucks and I don't want that" mentality.

Turing had his throat torn out, literally. He was bleeding to death, may have had a foot across the threshold of death's door. But the person who killed him was skilled enough at life magic to grow talons and go super saiyan, so she was also skilled enough to put his throat back in his neck, regenerate the wounded tissue and keep him alive in the interim. He spent fifteen seconds suffering from wounds that are irrecoverable. He was as much dead as a man whose heart had stopped for a minute or two.

Should he have enough aggravated damage to fill his health track, he's dead barring complicated plot devices that will twist the intent of his resurrection to the point of opening another story arch wherein DD plays either Nega-Turing or rolls up a new character.

Thanqol
2012-12-08, 10:42 PM
By the way, Druid, Errant left you with five points of lethal damage. A full heal would waste the enlightenment. You're welcome.

And Deadly, let this be a lesson about the path of least resistance taken by the Shifting the Odds spell.


I know, it's not "learn everything for free," but it's still pretty darned useful, and it's free (at least if it's your Ruling Arcana or a rote) so you could essentially have it up all the time, constantly, never missing anything that your Mage Sight would tell you.

It reminds me of the classic D&D joke about the players checking for traps every step. EVERY step. Because it's free to do, and while maybe all they learn is "you don't notice any traps" it's still lame, you know? :smalltongue: That's the feeling I get whenever I say "I look around with Prime Vision" or whatever. It may not apply to Mage, and I may not be abusing the system at all, but I can't shake off the association anyway.

Try thinking through what it would do to someone to have that spell available, all the time, for free.

Imagine what it'd be like to be walking down the street and automatically know which of the people around you had killed before. Imagine knowing which people are going to die soon. All Moros can see that, all the time. That kind of power changes a person.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-08, 10:48 PM
Here's the bit where I try to guess whether your reference to a lesson about the path of least resistance is about the following quote or Jack's divorce proceedings. :smallconfused:

Hmm.

Edit - Or the state of the Quiet themselves, I guess.

Thanqol
2012-12-08, 10:50 PM
Here's the bit where I try to guess whether your reference to a lesson about the path of least resistance is about the following quote or Jack's divorce proceedings. :smallconfused:

Hmm.

Edit - Or the state of the Quiet themselves, I guess.

Using Fate to cast "Summon Law Firm"

What is the number one circumstance in which a law firm comes to you?

It's when they're suing you.

Who's the only person who has enough money to be sued?

Jack.

Bam.

(Exceptional success would have literally been, "Hey Miss White, your great cousin twice removed died and left you everything - on the condition that you spend one night in a haunted house.")

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-08, 10:52 PM
I'd just like to say that "Summon Law Firm" sounds like the absolutely worst rote ever. :smallsmile:

I'd better deal with this carefully. If I'm not lucky, Tessen may have to start buying her own stuff! :smalleek:

[edit - Ahaha, exceptional success. Can we just pretend that happened instead? Hijinks, man.]

Thanqol
2012-12-08, 10:56 PM
I'd just like to say that "Summon Law Firm" sounds like the absolutely worst rote ever. :smallsmile:

I think it's what they teach Seer Acanthus.


I'd better deal with this carefully. If I'm not lucky, Tessen may have to start buying her own stuff! :smalleek:

http://www.determinismsucks.net/archive/Lily_the_horror-%28n1298395100102%29.png


[edit - Ahaha, exceptional success. Can we just pretend that happened instead? Hijinks, man.]

We may come back to that later; I'd kind of like to ease down the frenic pace of things happening to give you guys a breather to set your own plans in motion.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-08, 11:04 PM
I think it's what they teach Seer Acanthus.

God, the Seers are *****.


We may come back to that later; I'd kind of like to ease down the frenic pace of things happening to give you guys a breather to set your own plans in motion.

Hmm, Turing's big new plan is to lay the groundwork for Death 4, so it might end up in haunted house times anyway...

Not sure about anything longer term.

SiuiS
2012-12-08, 11:55 PM
(Exceptional success would have literally been, "Hey Miss White, your great cousin twice removed died and left you everything - on the condition that you spend one night in a haunted house.")

Guarantee Tessen would mostly be sad at the loss of an obscure relative.
Oh well. Haunted house for later then.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-08, 11:57 PM
Man, I'm loving Meet the Quiet.
Sarah especially, though Errant's bit is amusing too and reminding me of several characters.*

I think I'll declare here and now, statement of meta-intent.

If the date with Errant goes such that they remain on friendly terms but it's clearly going no-where (even if that means meeting up occaisionally to eat food/play pool/spend rare free time watching movies and going to concerts purely as friends, etc), and Jack gets the chance he's totally going to hit on Sarah.

Also, the thought processes running Jack at the moment can't help but imagine asking something along the lines of the following, were he there at the current time;
"Did you try asking her nicely to join your cause? Maybe explain why it's so important?"

Oh, and I take it given what I recall on our discussions regarding them previously, that it should be assumed that Thanqolverse Werewolves are NOT standard WoD magical combat-monster shamanic mirror-walking werewolves but something much more...well, Werewolfy?

*For some reason, possibly the stockholm-syndrome plan, she's really reminding me of Miss Dynamite and a little bit Deadpool, (minus the bouncing off the walls insanity.) She's completely unlike both of them, but my mental filing system throws up some really odd mental associations sometimes and I've just got to kind of go with it.

SiuiS
2012-12-09, 12:07 AM
Oh, and I suspect Grandkids was sent to kill Turing at one point.


"Oh, she does her share," said Errant. "We just have to take her down afterwards, but with the collar that's pretty easy. But the werewolf thing is triggered primarily by an emotional response - kind of like the Hulk? So I thought if her primary emotion is to protect me then she'll be a whole lot more controllable while beasting out,"

This is terribly inhumane to the wraparoundtofunny point. Wow.

I'm With jack on the whole "isn't she a person" bit. Haha.


Tiki: nWoD werewolves don't need mirrors et al anymore. Just a locus.
As a Thyrsus, Errant could literally place herself as this thing's god. With an acanthus, she could do it in such a way that breaking the ban Errant imposes on her for her "tribe" would cause mental degradation to the point of creating spirit bans.

Looking at an Uratha from a Moros point of view though, purely as a resource; a violence-inclined Thyrsus and a creature whose native strength is already around seven is god-damned frightening. And even if she isn't one of the nWoD splat werewolves, as a spirit, Supernal creature, cryptic, ridden or possessed individual she doesn't actually come out any different from a control the beastie standpoint.

Goodness, twenty dice aggravated brawl attacks. It's enough to make an acanthus nearby piss themselves.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 12:18 AM
I'm starting to suspect that Jack has a vulnerability to hilariously dangerous and possibly damaged, pretty girls.

Also, there's an element of "She's a human!" to Jack's train of thought, but there's also a touch of "Are you sure you aren't over thinking this and making it more difficult than it has to be?"

EDIT - Pragmatic Rules for the Discerning Adventurer.

Found a Locked Door? Perhaps try knocking. Also, double check it's actually locked. Also what side it's locked from.
Need something from a dangerous, powerful individual or creature? Try asking nicely.
Confronted by the sudden appearence of a strange, monstrous looking individual? Try saying hello. Maybe wave.

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 12:22 AM
Man, I'm loving Meet the Quiet.
Sarah especially, though Errant's bit is amusing too and reminding me of several characters.*

:D


I think I'll declare here and now, statement of meta-intent.

If the date with Errant goes such that they remain on friendly terms but it's clearly going no-where (even if that means meeting up occaisionally to eat food/play pool/spend rare free time watching movies and going to concerts purely as friends, etc), and Jack gets the chance he's totally going to hit on Sarah.

Heh. A'ight.


Also, the thought processes running Jack at the moment can't help but imagine asking something along the lines of the following, were he there at the current time;
"Did you try asking her nicely to join your cause? Maybe explain why it's so important?"

"Well..."

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3827/day574a.jpg

"I wasn't really thinking in terms of 'nice'."


Oh, and I take it given what I recall on our discussions regarding them previously, that it should be assumed that Thanqolverse Werewolves are NOT standard WoD magical combat-monster shamanic mirror-walking werewolves but something much more...well, Werewolfy?

Werewolves in this game are "Mage Werewolves"; as in, Werewolves as they are interesting in/beholden to Mage cosmology. There may be radical differences between them and other types of werewolf based on what I need them to be.


*For some reason, possibly the stockholm-syndrome plan, she's really reminding me of Miss Dynamite and a little bit Deadpool, (minus the bouncing off the walls insanity.) She's completely unlike both of them, but my mental filing system throws up some really odd mental associations sometimes and I've just got to kind of go with it.

Not entirely inaccurate.


Oh, and I suspect Grandkids was sent to kill Turing at one point.

Close, but you're way off.


This is terribly inhumane to the wraparoundtofunny point. Wow.

I'm With jack on the whole "isn't she a person" bit. Haha.

Errant is actually goddamn insane.


I'm starting to suspect that Jack has a vulnerability to hilariously dangerous and possibly damaged, pretty girls.

Plenty of those around!

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 12:31 AM
"Well..."

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3827/day574a.jpg

"I wasn't really thinking in terms of 'nice'."
Heh. That's a lot of wolf.


Plenty of those around!
I'm not sure if this is a good thing as such, but it'll certainly keep things more interesting.



Pragmatic Rules for the Discerning Adventurer
Rules may be more like guidelines. Use at own risk.

Found a Locked Door? Perhaps try knocking. Also, double check it's actually locked. Also what side it's locked from.
Need something from a dangerous, powerful individual or creature? Try asking nicely.
Confronted by the sudden appearence of a strange, monstrous looking individual? Try saying hello. Maybe wave.
Got off on a bad foot? It's never too late to try the nice route. No, not even then.

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 12:34 AM
Heh. That's a lot of wolf.

At this point I'll mention that Errant's theme is Hush (http://youtu.be/6JMYEOovSwo).


I'm not sure if this is a good thing as such, but it'll certainly keep things more interesting.

"Hilariously dangerous and possibly damaged, pretty girls" is quite possibly my favourite type of character.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-09, 12:48 AM
Oh, and I suspect Grandkids was sent to kill Turing at one point.

I remain curious as to what exactly is going on with him. Turing isn't going to ask right now though, because he would like to actually recover from the throat ripping before his next NDE.


This is terribly inhumane to the wraparoundtofunny point. Wow.

I'm With jack on the whole "isn't she a person" bit. Haha.

There is a non-zero chance that Turing may hug everyone back in the Renaissance when he gets back just because they seem so much more goddamned normal.


I'm starting to suspect that Jack has a vulnerability to hilariously dangerous and possibly damaged, pretty girls.

I would never have guessed.


EDIT - Pragmatic Rules for the Discerning Adventurer.

Found a Locked Door? Perhaps try knocking. Also, double check it's actually locked. Also what side it's locked from.
Need something from a dangerous, powerful individual or creature? Try asking nicely.
Confronted by the sudden appearence of a strange, monstrous looking individual? Try saying hello. Maybe wave.

This would explain a great deal about Jack's character.


Werewolves in this game are "Mage Werewolves"; as in, Werewolves as they are interesting in/beholden to Mage cosmology. There may be radical differences between them and other types of werewolf based on what I need them to be.

Idle extrapolation: any chance of "Mage Vampires"?


Errant is actually goddamn insane.

Turing is really hoping he never gets an invitation to join The Quiet.


"Hilariously dangerous and possibly damaged, pretty girls" is quite possibly my favourite type of character.

Do you read Questionable Content, by any chance?

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 12:52 AM
I remain curious as to what exactly is going on with him. Turing isn't going to ask right now though, because he would like to actually recover from the throat ripping before his next NDE.

Think of it like an incentive to learn Life 2.


There is a non-zero chance that Turing may hug everyone back in the Renaissance when he gets back just because they seem so much more goddamned normal.

This is why Errant doesn't let them talk to other people.


Idle extrapolation: any chance of "Mage Vampires"?

Maybe. My ST did an amazing thing with vampirism which I may steal, but no immediate plans.


Turing is really hoping he never gets an invitation to join The Quiet.

Remember back when you wrote "Turing wants to someday join the Quiet?

Happy memories of more innocent days.


Do you read Questionable Content, by any chance?

Oh yeah, used to follow it a million years ago.

Lix Lorn
2012-12-09, 12:54 AM
I like Tessen. Can I give her a hug? A big hug and tell her everything's gonna be okay?

the_druid_droid
2012-12-09, 12:57 AM
Think of it like an incentive to learn Life 2.

What exactly would Errant want in exchange for teaching it? And do I want to know what the actual learning would require?


Maybe. My ST did an amazing thing with vampirism which I may steal, but no immediate plans.

Good stuff.


Remember back when you wrote "Turing wants to someday join the Quiet?

Happy memories of more innocent days.

Not sure if I put it in quite such absolute terms, but yes. A life lesson of sorts.


Oh yeah, used to follow it a million years ago.

Just curious because Hannelore seems to fit well in that "damaged and possibly really dangerous" club.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 01:02 AM
I would never have guessed.
It counts as a developing trait, I think. It certainly isn't a planned one.



This would explain a great deal about Jack's character.
These are not Jack's rules. They are general rules I consider whenever I'm playing a mentally sharp character. They worked just as well for my ruthlessly pragmatic and at least slightly ambitious male Drow commander as they should for my naive hopeful idealist mage.

Actually, on the subject of named mental shards, the closest I have to having one is that same Drow. Kind of a pragmatic archetype, floating around my psyche and wearing the remains of the character as an identifier. Izzlin Dax s'Arabani.

I read Machiavelli's The Prince whilst playing that campaign. It was a pre-genned character, hilariously badly optimised by the GM and a male to boot, but became possibly my most powerful character to date, purely through cunning, wit, force of personality and understanding of the situation.
Ended up being gender bent by Lolth as a "reward" and having a minor crisis of faith because of it. Slightly involved story that.

Anarion
2012-12-09, 01:03 AM
Using Fate to cast "Summon Law Firm"

What is the number one circumstance in which a law firm comes to you?

It's when they're suing you.

Who's the only person who has enough money to be sued?

Jack.

Bam.

(Exceptional success would have literally been, "Hey Miss White, your great cousin twice removed died and left you everything - on the condition that you spend one night in a haunted house.")

Oh god, this is too amazing. I want that exceptional success to happen though. Tessen would be so into that. She likes the occult you know! /Fluttershy



I'd just like to say that "Summon Law Firm" sounds like the absolutely worst rote ever. :smallsmile:

I'd better deal with this carefully. If I'm not lucky, Tessen may have to start buying her own stuff! :smalleek:

[edit - Ahaha, exceptional success. Can we just pretend that happened instead? Hijinks, man.]

He never used your first name. Play dumb, ask who the hell this is from, and when he confirms your identity, go "Oh, you've made a mistake. This is Michael Jones."


I think it's what they teach Seer Acanthus.



http://www.determinismsucks.net/archive/Lily_the_horror-%28n1298395100102%29.png



We may come back to that later; I'd kind of like to ease down the frenic pace of things happening to give you guys a breather to set your own plans in motion.

Laughing so hard right now.


Guarantee Tessen would mostly be sad at the loss of an obscure relative.
Oh well. Haunted house for later then.

Actually not really. Tessen has some plans, and she'd love some money for those plans. Like trying to broadcast citywide and hijacking all of Detroit's radio stations. Plus haunted houses are cool.



Close, but you're way off.

Wild crack theory 1
He's the Baron and Errant somehow selected Turing personally to become a mage

Wild crack theory 2
He's the "Slade" that came with Cyprus to the church. The guy we captured is some other guy.


At this point I'll mention that Errant's theme is Hush (http://youtu.be/6JMYEOovSwo).


Hahahahahahaha. Oh my god, this is too much, Thanqol, I can't take this.


Seriously, just reading this whole section on the Quiet. I'm in awe. Also a little self-doubt. I don't know if I can run a game that's up to the kind of expectations that you're establishing and that makes me a little sad.

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 01:04 AM
What exactly would Errant want in exchange for teaching it? And do I want to know what the actual learning would require?

She's already given you the chance - just let all that lethal damage heal naturally and that'll be experience enough for Life 2.

Anarion
2012-12-09, 01:05 AM
She's already given you the chance - just let all that lethal damage heal naturally and that'll be experience enough for Life 2.

Awww, that's so nice of her.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-09, 01:10 AM
Wild crack theory 1
He's the Baron and Errant somehow selected Turing personally to become a mage

Wild crack theory 2
He's the "Slade" that came with Cyprus to the church. The guy we captured is some other guy.


My own crack theory is that this is somehow Turing's brother, changed not quite beyond recognition by his own Awakening. Who knows?


She's already given you the chance - just let all that lethal damage heal naturally and that'll be experience enough for Life 2.

Well, that answers that. Do all her lessons involve bodily harm?

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 01:17 AM
He never used your first name. Play dumb, ask who the hell this is from, and when he confirms your identity, go "Oh, you've made a mistake. This is Michael Jones."

The thought did occur to me breifly, but I'm not sure. We'll see when I gather my Jack thoughts enough to post.




Wild crack theory 1
He's the Baron and Errant somehow selected Turing personally to become a mage

Wild crack theory 2
He's the "Slade" that came with Cyprus to the church. The guy we captured is some other guy.

Wild Crack theory 2 isn't bad, but let's dial that up a little, shall we?

Superpower Crack Theory Redux!

Edit - Superpowered Crack Theory time!
There are no seers, no real seers in Detroit. The Quiet have infiltrated the Seers and set up the whole Seer aparatus in Detroit for their own purposes, using the Throne's hilariously labyrinthian structure against it. The ploy is successful enough that when actual seers, like Cyprus, need something in the urban hellhole that is Detroit, they go to the Quiets fake seers. (who don't even know they're not real seers).

The only reason Slade was even present that day was so that he could give Turing a note and end up in that chair for Turing to shoot dead.

Not only are large swathes of the Seers in Detroit secretly planted by the Quiet to neuter and negate the potential threat of Seer activity in Detroit, not only was Slade only there to get shot by Turing, he's also Grandkids, an almost-quiet but full guardian and presumably a master of death.

Infact, that wasn't the only reason he was there. Because the "Death of Slade" also allowed for him to pull out of his deep-cover role as part of the Detroit Seers.

Slade's family may or may not have meaningfully existed prior to the phone-call (which Turing was supposed to answer).

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 01:19 AM
Oh god, this is too amazing. I want that exceptional success to happen though. Tessen would be so into that. She likes the occult you know! /Fluttershy

All right, it's definitely a possibility the next time a powerful Fate spell goes off.


Laughing so hard right now.

Hahahahahahaha. Oh my god, this is too much, Thanqol, I can't take this.

*Bows*


Seriously, just reading this whole section on the Quiet. I'm in awe. Also a little self-doubt. I don't know if I can run a game that's up to the kind of expectations that you're establishing and that makes me a little sad.

Aww. The trick is really to have fun when writing your NPCs.


Awww, that's so nice of her.

Errant is the sweetest thing, isn't she?


Well, that answers that. Do all her lessons involve bodily harm?

If they do she must know a lot.

You want to know how she got those scars?

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 01:28 AM
....Errant, in my head, is currently a perky goth mix of Miss Dynamite and Revvy from Black Lagoon. With less smoking and drinking.
Huh.

Anarion
2012-12-09, 01:32 AM
Superpower Crack Theory Redux!


Not only are large swathes of the Seers in Detroit secretly planted by the Quiet to neuter and negate the potential threat of Seer activity in Detroit, not only was Slade only there to get shot by Turing, he's also Grandkids, an almost-quiet but full guardian and presumably a master of death.

Infact, that wasn't the only reason he was there. Because the "Death of Slade" also allowed for him to pull out of his deep-cover role as part of the Detroit Seers.

Slade's family may or may not have meaningfully existed prior to the phone-call (which Turing was supposed to answer).

I had a conversation with Thanqol last night that makes me think this isn't the case. It involved comparisons to Phoenix Wright. Point being, I think there was someone who was actually Slade. However, I think it's totally fair game as to who actually got killed, how they got there, and who we met at different times.

I just think the strong punch in particular, and in response to Turing's question was striking. It's almost the same punch that "Slade" delivered at the church, and there was such a huge contrast between the first time we met Slade and all our subsequent interaction. On top of that, Slade gave us a note with blood, unlike Cyprus, who spat. That blood, it could have come from anyone.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-09, 01:33 AM
....Errant, in my head, is currently a perky goth mix of Miss Dynamite and Revvy from Black Lagoon. With less smoking and drinking.
Huh.

Turing has the latter handled...


I had a conversation with Thanqol last night that makes me think this isn't the case. It involved comparisons to Phoenix Wright. Point being, I think there was someone who was actually Slade. However, I think it's totally fair game as to who actually got killed, how they got there, and who we met at different times.

I just think the strong punch in particular, and in response to Turing's question was striking. It's almost the same punch that "Slade" delivered at the church, and there was such a huge contrast between the first time we met Slade and all our subsequent interaction. On top of that, Slade gave us a note with blood, unlike Cyprus, who spat. That blood, it could have come from anyone.

Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah, interesting point there.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 01:35 AM
Hmm. Also Cyprus would never have met Slade before presumably, and it was Slade who brought Cyprus to the church, somehow getting there after the Quiet had already gotten us there.

But, mm. I think I'd say that's a theory, not a Crack Theory.

Edit- This is a crack theory;
Refuge in Audacity. Errant really was bitten by a radioactive China Doll. You're supposed to assume snark, but it's an entirely honest answer to Turing's query.
But just a little one.

SiuiS
2012-12-09, 01:54 AM
I feel the need to printout that if Turing has death vision up, specifically soul marks, he can not only see the shape of Errant's legacy (free legacy detection!) but also any derangements acquired from degeneration rolls.

So it's your choice, Turing. Blessed ignorance, or knowing the exact tentacle length and chitin-to-orichalc ratio of the beastie that is her soul, with all it's glaring, multifaceted eyes of want and hunger and lust.



Actually not really. Tessen has some plans, and she'd love some money for those plans. Like trying to broadcast citywide and hijacking all of Detroit's radio stations. Plus haunted houses are cool.


I didn't say the rest wasn't cool! Just that she wouldn't be like "Sweet! How much was the broad worth?"



Hahahahahahaha. Oh my god, this is too much, Thanqol, I can't take this.


Seriously, just reading this whole section on the Quiet. I'm in awe. Also a little self-doubt. I don't know if I can run a game that's up to the kind of expectations that you're establishing and that makes me a little sad.

It's actually very Thyrsus of him. He ruthlessly mocks characters in the design phase that are probe to flashy magic, wisdom
Degeneration and immoral action, and then flaunts how awesome they are an goes "aw gee, you could have made a character like this, too!" and it's pretty damn well played.

Mostly? I'm letting it sink in exactly how low wisdom works. You see the example characters at wisdom 4 and laugh. "they must be bad guys!" but no. They are survivors. So while I'll marvel at his execution, I'm mentally dissecting the background components. I can't do half as well as either of you but I'll climb over my own corpse trying.


She's already given you the chance - just let all that lethal damage heal naturally and that'll be experience enough for Life 2.

suddenly, my training a new Obrimos by dragging them to the desert during a rainstorm, snapping their femur and coming back in 72 hours to put together the remainder makes a lot more sense.

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 04:03 AM
It's actually very Thyrsus of him. He ruthlessly mocks characters in the design phase that are probe to flashy magic, wisdom
Degeneration and immoral action, and then flaunts how awesome they are an goes "aw gee, you could have made a character like this, too!" and it's pretty damn well played.

Mostly? I'm letting it sink in exactly how low wisdom works. You see the example characters at wisdom 4 and laugh. "they must be bad guys!" but no. They are survivors. So while I'll marvel at his execution, I'm mentally dissecting the background components. I can't do half as well as either of you but I'll climb over my own corpse trying.

I don't think what makes this scene appealing is the fact that these characters are low wisdom. I mean, they are, but the appeal is Errant putting aside her sculpted calm exterior to reveal that she's a crazy person who teamed up with two psychopaths who have done horrifying mental surgery to themselves, two prisoners-of-war, and one reasonable bloke to forge her own personal rogue magical death squad, answerable not even to senior members of her own Order.

In any other game, Errant would be the end boss is what I'm saying. That these guys are presented as friends and allies despite their unsettling appearances and amoral use of magic is an extremely fun part of the Mage setting.

Anarion
2012-12-09, 04:12 AM
I didn't say the rest wasn't cool! Just that she wouldn't be like "Sweet! How much was the broad worth?"


Hmm, you're right. I don't think "broad" is in Tessen's vocabularly, so she definitely wouldn't say that. :smallwink:



I don't think what makes this scene appealing is the fact that these characters are low wisdom. I mean, they are, but the appeal is Errant putting aside her sculpted calm exterior to reveal that she's a crazy person who teamed up with two psychopaths who have done horrifying mental surgery to themselves, two prisoners-of-war, and one reasonable bloke to forge her own personal rogue magical death squad, answerable not even to senior members of her own Order.

In any other game, Errant would be the end boss is what I'm saying. That these guys are presented as friends and allies despite their unsettling appearances and amoral use of magic is an extremely fun part of the Mage setting.

Dude, you're basically running this world on the same logic as Spec Ops: The Line. It's your ally as long as it's not trying to shoot you. Even if said ally is a horrible person planning to do horrible things. And it is glorious.

SiuiS
2012-12-09, 04:24 AM
I don't think what makes this scene appealing is the fact that these characters are low wisdom. I mean, they are, but the appeal is Errant putting aside her sculpted calm exterior to reveal that she's a crazy person who teamed up with two psychopaths who have done horrifying mental surgery to themselves, two prisoners-of-war, and one reasonable bloke to forge her own personal rogue magical death squad, answerable not even to senior members of her own Order.

In any other game, Errant would be the end boss is what I'm saying. That these guys are presented as friends and allies despite their unsettling appearances and amoral use of magic is an extremely fun part of the Mage setting.

I did notice that you were basically showcasing brutally effective murderers from the "not aiming at you" vantage point. I meant from the viewpoint of character design though. It's a clear and fun lesson that good player and good storyteller character don't have remotely the same shape. Design wise, that's a completely different beast than how they play.

I want to focus on one way you're better than me at a time ;3


Hmm, you're right. I don't think "broad" is in Tessen's vocabularly, so she definitely wouldn't say that. :smallwink:


She must get plenty of giggles during shooting practices. "You couldn't hit the large horizontal surface of a barn, or some other method of expressing terrible precision!"

"Seriously miss White, did you read that Thesaurus? I highlighted some pages for you."



Dude, you're basically running this world on the same logic as Spec Ops: The Line. It's your ally as long as it's not trying to shoot you. Even if said ally is a horrible person planning to do horrible things. And it is glorious.

I still get cognitive dissonance that you are interested in that game line.

---

Random thing, made me think of Tiki.


My gut feeling, though, is that it's because I have a love for the little detailed bits of characters - my often-expressed platonic ideal of a game session is one where the characters are stuck in a lift all session and yet are detailed enough, nuanced enough, that there's enough material simply from conversation to fill the time.

And the Oneiros is all about those bits of characters.

I love those sessions. One of my fonder memories was cracking a beer with Raz_Fox's apprentice.

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 04:37 AM
Dude, you're basically running this world on the same logic as Spec Ops: The Line. It's your ally as long as it's not trying to shoot you. Even if said ally is a horrible person planning to do horrible things. And it is glorious.

Hmm, can't discuss this openly without spoiling people who SHOULD PLAY SPEC OPS: THE LINE.


I still get cognitive dissonance that you are interested in that game line.

Do you think it's a generic military shooter?

If you do, rather than investigating why you're wrong at all, you should just buy the game and play it purely on the strength of my recommendation - and I recommend it extremely highly. Just trust me, and give the game a chance to surprise you.

Really.


I love those sessions. One of my fonder memories was cracking a beer with Raz_Fox's apprentice.

I learned that lesson two years ago, I think, when I watched this video (http://youtu.be/ZrSg_yga1_E). Two old people sit in a dark room during a power cut and nothing happens.

It actually fundamentally changed the way I think about writing.

Anarion
2012-12-09, 05:05 AM
Hmm, can't discuss this openly without spoiling people who SHOULD PLAY SPEC OPS: THE LINE.



Do you think it's a generic military shooter?

If you do, rather than investigating why you're wrong at all, you should just buy the game and play it purely on the strength of my recommendation - and I recommend it extremely highly. Just trust me, and give the game a chance to surprise you.

Really.


Double recommended. Don't spoil yourself, just GO PLAY IT. You will have no regrets.




I learned that lesson two years ago, I think, when I watched this video (http://youtu.be/ZrSg_yga1_E). Two old people sit in a dark room during a power cut and nothing happens.

It actually fundamentally changed the way I think about writing.

Bookmarked for watching tomorrow. Paper is at ~22 pages in length but lacking citations. Debating whether I need to write more or if proper citation formatting will get me 3 pages and I can be free.

Deadly
2012-12-09, 10:03 AM
And Deadly, let this be a lesson about the path of least resistance taken by the Shifting the Odds spell.

And then the universe was a lawyer :smalleek:


Try thinking through what it would do to someone to have that spell available, all the time, for free.

Imagine what it'd be like to be walking down the street and automatically know which of the people around you had killed before. Imagine knowing which people are going to die soon. All Moros can see that, all the time. That kind of power changes a person.

That's a good point, of course. Still, you can very reasonably use it every time you suspect something might be worth looking at and not pay a thing or have any consequences. And unless you're in a situation where you don't have much time, you can also go "I look around with Fate, then Time, then Prime, gimme all the info!"

I'm sure it's not an entirely rational concern, but irrational concerns can be hard to shake off, you know.


(Exceptional success would have literally been, "Hey Miss White, your great cousin twice removed died and left you everything - on the condition that you spend one night in a haunted house.")

Aww man, that would have been fun :smallbiggrin: Not that Jack getting in trouble won't be lots of fun too, but it's not as clear how right now.


Errant is actually goddamn insane

Errant scares me. Like, that was the very first thought I had when reading about these Quiet people ... that Errant is freakin' scary, dude :smalleek:


I learned that lesson two years ago, I think, when I watched this video (http://youtu.be/ZrSg_yga1_E). Two old people sit in a dark room during a power cut and nothing happens.

It actually fundamentally changed the way I think about writing.

Watched the first 10 minutes. Had me laughing, and somehow reminded me of my old Danish/literature teacher and his class in High School. I bet he'd have loved giving us this as an exercise, if it hadn't been in English of course. Just his kind of thing.



Anyway, wild speculation time:
If we had any reason to believe that Errant was a Time mage, I'd almost be inclined to think that Grandkids really is her grandson pulled out of the future and into the present. Or something like that. I can't help but think of the Grandfather Paradox for some reason, but my mind is not in the right gear to ponder this line of speculation properly right now. So I leave it to you guys.

Let's see ... oh yes, the Crossdressers, am I the only one who sees a parallel there with Mirror Man and Johnny? They too seemed to have some sort of mental connection when Amun was talking to them. A link, you think?

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 02:23 PM
Hmm, can't discuss this openly without spoiling people who SHOULD PLAY SPEC OPS: THE LINE.



Do you think it's a generic military shooter?

If you do, rather than investigating why you're wrong at all, you should just buy the game and play it purely on the strength of my recommendation - and I recommend it extremely highly. Just trust me, and give the game a chance to surprise you.

Really.


Double recommended. Don't spoil yourself, just GO PLAY IT. You will have no regrets.

Breifly considered checking it out on the weight of recommendation here (and the fact that the soundtrack features Deep Purple, apparently).

But my sources tell me it has no local co-op, so that bumps it down a very long list of games I want to and/or might check out eventually.

And so it goes.

SiuiS
2012-12-09, 02:34 PM
Double recommended. Don't spoil yourself, just GO PLAY IT. You will have no regrets.

Will look into it. If on my system, and I do get it, I can loan it to you Tiki. I'm going to ship a D&D book to a new zealander and owe a Canadian a tablet. I think figuring out a sufficiently safe PO box as to not give any personal information away woul be somewhat easier.




Bookmarked for watching tomorrow. Paper is at ~22 pages in length but lacking citations. Debating whether I need to write more or if proper citation formatting will get me 3 pages and I can be free.

Ugh. Hate citations. They were such a pain. And you could easily get a lot on a page.

Citations, then pad the rest?



Do you think it's a generic military shooter?

Yes. However, even if not, I am surprised you got over "generic military shooter" long enough to check it out.



I learned that lesson two years ago, I think, when I watched this video (http://youtu.be/ZrSg_yga1_E). Two old people sit in a dark room during a power cut and nothing happens.

It actually fundamentally changed the way I think about writing.

Reminds me of an anecdote. Comedian who walks on stage, to a small fit of laughter. He stares at the audience, prompting more laughs. Twenty minutes of foot tapping, watch checking, and bereaved sighing later he bows, thanks the audience, and leaves. All of ten are rolling in the aisles, and he never said a word.

Will. Heck out later. Going to listen to polish polka. Stuck in head.

Anarion
2012-12-09, 02:49 PM
Breifly considered checking it out on the weight of recommendation here (and the fact that the soundtrack features Deep Purple, apparently).

But my sources tell me it has no local co-op, so that bumps it down a very long list of games I want to and/or might check out eventually.

And so it goes.

Is this just a preference for multiplayer games in general? Spec Ops is completely a single player game, you definitely don't want it for its multiplayer. It would be like asking for multiplayer for Final Fantasy or Zelda.



Yes. However, even if not, I am surprised you got over "generic military shooter" long enough to check it out.


I actually knew some stuff about it before I played it. This was a mistake, don't look into it at all.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 03:05 PM
I specifically prioritise Local Co-op games above all, as the highest form of the art. Online campaign Co-op comes a little way below that, if my co-op partners are likely to be buying the game themselves without prompting. Single player only is a ways below this (but much more readily available).

Shooters in particular I feel benefit from co-op considerably. Competitive Multiplayer can suck a turtle.

Anarion
2012-12-09, 03:33 PM
I specifically prioritise Local Co-op games above all, as the highest form of the art. Online campaign Co-op comes a little way below that, if my co-op partners are likely to be buying the game themselves without prompting. Single player only is a ways below this (but much more readily available).

Shooters in particular I feel benefit from co-op considerably. Competitive Multiplayer can suck a turtle.

That's an interesting viewpoint. Not that co-op is necessarily better or worse, but rather I don't think I've seen anyone judge the art form based on the number of players. What's the reason you have such a partiality towards co-op play?

SiuiS
2012-12-09, 03:35 PM
Is this just a preference for multiplayer games in general? Spec Ops is completely a single player game, you definitely don't want it for its multiplayer. It would be like asking for multiplayer for Final Fantasy or Zelda.


Depends on what you want out of a game. Mass effect snookered me with high customization – I've clocked 5,000 hours on final fantasy tactics, even if I put it down one day and never came back to it. Mass effect offers the continual search for elegance, that set of rhythms, skills, equipment and focus that allow meto dance through my enemies as if in a trance, obliterating them. The multiplayer adds additional components to that. Aqua composition means I have no control over allied capacity but still have to account for it. And it's one of my pine methods of socializing, with some people.

I'll play some games, like dead space, for the single player, but a good multiplayer game is an experience beyond the game itself. I've played with Tiki, an instead of anything about equipment I came away knowing more about Tiki. It's the modern day 'chat in a coffee shop'.



I actually knew some stuff about it before I played it. This was a mistake, don't look into it at all.

*nod* I trust your assessment. I couldn't in good conscience use that justification on AmishPirate and not accept it myself.


I specifically prioritise Local Co-op games above all, as the highest form of the art. Online campaign Co-op comes a little way below that, if my co-op partners are likely to be buying the game themselves without prompting. Single player only is a ways below this (but much more readily available).

Shooters in particular I feel benefit from co-op considerably. Competitive Multiplayer can suck a turtle.

Competetive multiplayer is fine in systems where it's more forgiving. Mass effect could have a functional Competetive mode, because health and shields are so high you're not going to be dead before you know what's going on. The problem with most similar games is that all you need to excel is to deduce the timin on a combat roll, run around with you camera tilted up at 30° and use a shotgun. Roll at a dude and it's an auto kill headshot.

I stopped playing gears of war and smash bros. melee for just this reason; a combat game should not be 95% dodging. This isn't Stephanie, it's war!

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 03:40 PM
That's an interesting viewpoint. Not that co-op is necessarily better or worse, but rather I don't think I've seen anyone judge the art form based on the number of players. What's the reason you have such a partiality towards co-op play?

Friendship is magic.

Anarion
2012-12-09, 03:54 PM
Friendship is magic.

Cute.

Though surely you read books and enjoy stories, right? I lump several good single-player games in the same category, being essentially a good story in an interactive medium.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 03:58 PM
I like single player games just fine. But if I can get the same experience and co-op at the same time, that bumps it up the priority significantly.

In this particular case, the issue is I already have a long list of games I'm supposed to be finishing and have already decided to buy that I'm a lot more excited about than Spec Ops, so it's at the bottom of a not inconsiderable list.

Deadly
2012-12-09, 04:47 PM
Cute.

Though surely you read books and enjoy stories, right? I lump several good single-player games in the same category, being essentially a good story in an interactive medium.

I never play anything but single-player, myself. Whenever I see an online-only game I weep a little (but my schedule throws a party)

the_druid_droid
2012-12-09, 07:04 PM
Hmm, so the more I think about it, the more it strikes me that it would be appropriate to make Turing's cane function as a weapon. I'm pretty sure magic could be used to give it an enhancement bonus, but I'm wondering what level of Matter (or Forces) might be necessary to do so?

Also, I'd kind of like to use it against ghosts/ephemeral critters as well, but the description for Ghost Touch says specifically that you can't use that to harm them. Still Death 3 gives Restore Corpus, so some sort of fraying effect should also be present, right? Just wanting some guidance.

Also, thinking about another Moros idea (not really Turing's bag, but since I'm on magic mechanic speculations) what level would you need of Death to be able to manipulate shadows as a functional set of weapons and/or possibly armor. I know they sort of hint at that at Death 3, although it seems to imply a weak effect... And presumably shadow weapons would be just differently shaped shadow objects, and not fundamentally different from shielding. I'm thinking here of a sort of creepy, shadow-lurking watcher that uses them for concealment as well as a damaging way to distract people that get aggressive. I'm imagining here something similar to, but not really the same as a Vector Arrow effect.

SiuiS
2012-12-09, 07:47 PM
Making weapons strike twilight creatures is a specifically Prime function.
A cane is an improvised weapon, so you'd probably just go from improvised to standard. I think matter 1 or 2 could handle that, with creative thaumaturgical application.

Edit: Aye, ephemeral enchantment, prime 3, weaving. Works on anything in twilight. Death 3 weaving could theoretically be used to inflict harm on ghosts specifically, but it might be more worthwhile to bribe Amun to do a ritual enchantment (Amun has prime 3 right? I remember Amun having more prime than Tessen). In fact, probably better off imbuing it.

But I'm an incorrigible twink.

Shadows I think are personal thematics. You can attack with death 3, fraying, and have it be shadow claws that assault someone instead of just "heart attack" stuff.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-09, 08:04 PM
Making weapons strike twilight creatures is a specifically Prime function.
A cane is an improvised weapon, so you'd probably just go from improvised to standard. I think matter 1 or 2 could handle that, with creative thaumaturgical application.

Well, the merit description seems to suggest you can pump up the stats as high as you like, although after a point they'll invoke Disbelief. I was also hoping that if I alter it to look a little sturdier, sleepers would accept the idea of it as a club/bludgeoning thing so I could net a bit more of a bonus >.>


Shadows I think are personal thematics. You can attack with death 3, fraying, and have it be shadow claws that assault someone instead of just "heart attack" stuff.

Well, there are specific spells to manipulate shadows, and although I'm not totally opposed to using them as flavor, I'd really like to get a handle on what level of mastery would let you just do things directly.

Deadly
2012-12-09, 08:09 PM
but it might be more worthwhile to bribe Amun to do a ritual enchantment (Amun has prime 3 right? I remember Amun having more prime than Tessen).

Aye, Amun has Prime 3

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 08:15 PM
That's a good point, of course. Still, you can very reasonably use it every time you suspect something might be worth looking at and not pay a thing or have any consequences. And unless you're in a situation where you don't have much time, you can also go "I look around with Fate, then Time, then Prime, gimme all the info!"

I'm sure it's not an entirely rational concern, but irrational concerns can be hard to shake off, you know.

Remember, this is a game about going mad with power.

Step one is that you actually have that power.


Aww man, that would have been fun :smallbiggrin: Not that Jack getting in trouble won't be lots of fun too, but it's not as clear how right now.

Give it a minute.


Errant scares me. Like, that was the very first thought I had when reading about these Quiet people ... that Errant is freakin' scary, dude :smalleek:

I feel the same way. She's possibly the scariest person who lives in my head.


Yes. However, even if not, I am surprised you got over "generic military shooter" long enough to check it out.

I'm not some intellectual gaming snob who passes on genres just because they're genres. I remembered hearing good things about the game and it was on special, so I got it.

If I have a regret it's not paying full price for it.


Hmm, so the more I think about it, the more it strikes me that it would be appropriate to make Turing's cane function as a weapon. I'm pretty sure magic could be used to give it an enhancement bonus, but I'm wondering what level of Matter (or Forces) might be necessary to do so?

Matter 3 lets you permanently upgrade an item. Best done by talking to someone with Matter 3 and spending the XP for the Enhanced Item merit.

Prime lets you imbue an item with spells, best done in the same way.

Or deal with regularly refreshed temporary enchantments.


Also, I'd kind of like to use it against ghosts/ephemeral critters as well, but the description for Ghost Touch says specifically that you can't use that to harm them. Still Death 3 gives Restore Corpus, so some sort of fraying effect should also be present, right? Just wanting some guidance.

Yeah there's a death 3 direct-damage to ghosts spell for sure. You can just use the cane as an arcane tool when casting that if all you want is the visuals.


Also, thinking about another Moros idea (not really Turing's bag, but since I'm on magic mechanic speculations) what level would you need of Death to be able to manipulate shadows as a functional set of weapons and/or possibly armor. I know they sort of hint at that at Death 3, although it seems to imply a weak effect... And presumably shadow weapons would be just differently shaped shadow objects, and not fundamentally different from shielding. I'm thinking here of a sort of creepy, shadow-lurking watcher that uses them for concealment as well as a damaging way to distract people that get aggressive. I'm imagining here something similar to, but not really the same as a Vector Arrow effect.

I don't think this is something that's within Mage capabilities. It's not within Mage capabilities because it doesn't fit with their cosmology, their implied style of play, or their recommended problem solving paths. This is something Changelings do but Mages can't because the Arcana don't quite work that way.

Even if possible it's hideously sub-optimal and vulgar compared to other effects at the same level, making it a bad idea even if you can find the correct combination to pull it off.

The effects you're looking for are better represented by a Nimbus or a Ghost or Spirit that look all shadowy.

*

General discussion:

I am considering merging Weaponry and Brawl into a single stat, called Close Quarters Combat

I've been watching a lot of action movies and fight scenes recently, paying careful attention to fight choreography and how I can translate it to a written medium. I've noticed that all action movies tend to feature fairly fluid transitions between armed and unarmed combat. I've also noticed I literally cannot think of a single guy who fights with a weapon who can't throw a punch when he needs to. I find the idea of roughhousing bikers in a bar getting less menacing when they pull knives ridiculous.

I think it's lame to force a CQC specialist to double-invest in two skills, especially because (and this was the Dawn Caste Problem) they both apply to the same scenes and you can only use one at a time. This makes it incredibly mechanically optimal to invest in one or the other, which results in weird things. I know for a fact my martial arts instructor doesn't lose five dice off his 'kick your ass' pool when he picks up a knife. Instead of being an entirely separate discipline, picking up a knife narratively shows that one side is prepared to raise the stakes.

Anyway, both skills are intrinsically inferior to Firearms, so I don't see this being game breaking. I honestly suspect this was purely done to maintain the 8/8/8 skill division between physical, social and mental.

Thoughts or responses?

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 08:19 PM
Once again, have no dots in either but I follow your reasoning and really can't disagree with your conclusions.

Possibly seperate also so that you can't deal hilarious levels of lethal damage so easily without carrying around hilariously obvious stuff, which is really a core WoD/Mortal/Sleeper game kind of concern.

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 08:21 PM
Once again, have no dots in either but I follow your reasoning and really can't disagree with your conclusions.

Possibly seperate also so that you can't deal hilarious levels of lethal damage so easily without carrying around hilariously obvious stuff, which is really a core WoD/Mortal/Sleeper game kind of concern.

I think the decision to carry around lethal death dealing equipment should be an ongoing question, variable on the situation, rather than a decision you make in character gen and then deal with every session thereafter.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 08:25 PM
Yes.

Also, is the intended result of this Quiet section that I should find Errant more adorable with every mildly psychopathic but oh so chipper reply?

Cause, yeah.

SiuiS
2012-12-09, 08:26 PM
Well, the merit description seems to suggest you can pump up the stats as high as you like, although after a point they'll invoke Disbelief. I was also hoping that if I alter it to look a little sturdier, sleepers would accept the idea of it as a club/bludgeoning thing so I could net a bit more of a bonus >.>

Sorry, thought you meant minimum fuss.
What is the cane made of? Ossify the the wood/etc. Into a sturdy carbon fiber interaliased casing with a tight-packed solid granular component. A mercurial fluid can flow lightly between, granting even balance (possibly better than a cane) while allowing an otherwise useless flourish to load one end with an execs of the weapon's mass. You could **** your arm down to force it into the "handle" to wield the cane like a rapier, flick it outward for a mace/shillelagh (using single hand shillelagh) or a slight preponderance toward the tapered end to even the stick, using a two handed uisce Bhata rince bata or half-staff style to flick it from either end for range or to be able to power (with brawl skill) at short, fisticuffs ranges without sacrificing your hands or weapon-based defense. You can get this built for you mundanely, and canes are often checked for weaponization by law enforcement – along with slung shot, a loaded cane is a huge deal and a felony in many places, especially those with a history of rush or Russian gang activity.

This sound like it requires matter 3, for alter integrity, plasticity and repair item. Alter efficiency, to increase the already relatively good effectiveness of the object, requires matter 4.

A cane with base reinforcement would be 2B, possibly -1 improvised (normally a fighting style dot would remove that, I think the Thanqolverse equivalent is a specialization in cane fighting), while a combat optimized cane would be akin to a flanged mace, 3B and probably a strength requirement. The same spell effect which grants the armor-piercing quality could potentially be used to grant concussive follow through, changing the inherent nature of the object during ballistic collisions to inflict lethal damage by reverberatin destructive force through tissue.

Achieving the carbon-goer sturdiness is basically alter integrity. You could hollow it out and fill it with lead substitute yourself, but the mercurial fluid you're on your own for. The physics work but I've yet to find a fluid which works.

Bonus points if you've got a silver head and an iron tip. Aggravate all the enemy splats.



Well, there are specific spells to manipulate shadows, and although I'm not totally opposed to using them as flavor, I'd really like to get a handle on what level of mastery would let you just do things directly.

Okay. Not my department, sorry.

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 08:27 PM
Yes.

Also, is the intended result of this Quiet section that I should find Errant more adorable with every mildly psychopathic but oh so chipper reply?

Cause, yeah.

That would be the intention, yes. =D

the_druid_droid
2012-12-09, 08:36 PM
Matter 3 lets you permanently upgrade an item. Best done by talking to someone with Matter 3 and spending the XP for the Enhanced Item merit.

This is probably what I'll end up doing. Out of curiosity, what Durability would a cane have by default?


Yeah there's a death 3 direct-damage to ghosts spell for sure. You can just use the cane as an arcane tool when casting that if all you want is the visuals.

Ok, kind of expected this, but sometimes my intuition leads me wrong. Good to have confirmation.


I don't think this is something that's within Mage capabilities. It's not within Mage capabilities because it doesn't fit with their cosmology, their implied style of play, or their recommended problem solving paths. This is something Changelings do but Mages can't because the Arcana don't quite work that way.

Hmm, may have been Changeling crosstalk in my brain here actually. I'll probably just tweak the idea.


Even if possible it's hideously sub-optimal and vulgar compared to other effects at the same level, making it a bad idea even if you can find the correct combination to pull it off.

This is the vibe I was beginning to get, but sometimes I can't tell if the system is fighting me because the book is being cagey, or because I'm doing something weird.


*

General discussion:

I am considering merging Weaponry and Brawl into a single stat, called Close Quarters Combat

I've been watching a lot of action movies and fight scenes recently, paying careful attention to fight choreography and how I can translate it to a written medium. I've noticed that all action movies tend to feature fairly fluid transitions between armed and unarmed combat. I've also noticed I literally cannot think of a single guy who fights with a weapon who can't throw a punch when he needs to. I find the idea of roughhousing bikers in a bar getting less menacing when they pull knives ridiculous.

I think it's lame to force a CQC specialist to double-invest in two skills, especially because (and this was the Dawn Caste Problem) they both apply to the same scenes and you can only use one at a time. This makes it incredibly mechanically optimal to invest in one or the other, which results in weird things. I know for a fact my martial arts instructor doesn't lose five dice off his 'kick your ass' pool when he picks up a knife. Instead of being an entirely separate discipline, picking up a knife narratively shows that one side is prepared to raise the stakes.

Anyway, both skills are intrinsically inferior to Firearms, so I don't see this being game breaking. I honestly suspect this was purely done to maintain the 8/8/8 skill division between physical, social and mental.

Thoughts or responses?

I will admit that I'm biased in favor of doing this simply because I like Turing having a bit of a CQC side. Gun really aren't his thing (despite the mechanical benefits) but beating the crap out of something is more in line with the concept of him in a fight that I have. The Brawl/Weaponry split he has is actually a reflection of my own struggles with how to deal with the issue, and it definitely is sub-optimal.

My one question would be what to do with my XP in this case? I don't think the two dots in weaponry would give back enough to boost a CQC skill to 4 by themselves, but I hate to just lose or reassign them. Maybe apply them toward a discount on the fourth dot?

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-09, 08:37 PM
That would be the intention, yes. =D

Ah, that's reassuring then.

Also, Cane-weapon? Why not just mesh it with a shotgun's mechanisms to have a single-action shotgun cane? Might be worth salvaging a pistol too, cause shotguns and canes, neither comes with a safety catch I don't think?

Should be doable with only a small amount of matter, as I'm sure there's that one rote that basically does this.

Alternatively, canibalise a taser instead in the same way and have a stun-stick.

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 08:40 PM
This is probably what I'll end up doing. Out of curiosity, what Durability would a cane have by default?

Wood is Durability 1. Metal is Durability 2. Reinforced steel is 3(+1 for each reinforcing layer).


I will admit that I'm biased in favor of doing this simply because I like Turing having a bit of a CQC side. Gun really aren't his thing (despite the mechanical benefits) but beating the crap out of something is more in line with the concept of him in a fight that I have. The Brawl/Weaponry split he has is actually a reflection of my own struggles with how to deal with the issue, and it definitely is sub-optimal.

My one question would be what to do with my XP in this case? I don't think the two dots in weaponry would give back enough to boost a CQC skill to 4 by themselves, but I hate to just lose or reassign them. Maybe apply them toward a discount on the fourth dot?

Whatever you originally invested will be refunded, be it XP or character gen dots.

SiuiS
2012-12-09, 08:47 PM
I'm not some intellectual gaming snob who passes on genres just because they're genres. I remembered hearing good things about the game and it was on special, so I got it.

If I have a regret it's not paying full price for it.


No, I honestly just couldn't see you being interested in the mechanics.
And you snubbed "classic literature" because you thought the authors were stuffy prudes. Come on man, you're a complex individual. Are you really surprised you send mixed signals?



Matter 3 lets you permanently upgrade an item. Best done by talking to someone with Matter 3 and spending the XP for the Enhanced Item merit.

Prime lets you imbue an item with spells, best done in the same way.

Or deal with regularly refreshed temporary enchantments.


So wait
If you have those spells yourself, you have to spend the XP and the investiture to release the spell? Terribly suboptimal, and a huge disconnect between PC and NPC crafting capability.



General discussion:

I am considering merging Weaponry and Brawl into a single stat, called Close Quarters Combat

I've been watching a lot of action movies and fight scenes recently, paying careful attention to fight choreography and how I can translate it to a written medium. I've noticed that all action movies tend to feature fairly fluid transitions between armed and unarmed combat. I've also noticed I literally cannot think of a single guy who fights with a weapon who can't throw a punch when he needs to. I find the idea of roughhousing bikers in a bar getting less menacing when they pull knives ridiculous.

I think it's lame to force a CQC specialist to double-invest in two skills, especially because (and this was the Dawn Caste Problem) they both apply to the same scenes and you can only use one at a time. This makes it incredibly mechanically optimal to invest in one or the other, which results in weird things. I know for a fact my martial arts instructor doesn't lose five dice off his 'kick your ass' pool when he picks up a knife. Instead of being an entirely separate discipline, picking up a knife narratively shows that one side is prepared to raise the stakes.

Anyway, both skills are intrinsically inferior to Firearms, so I don't see this being game breaking. I honestly suspect this was purely done to maintain the 8/8/8 skill division between physical, social and mental.

Thoughts or responses?

There is an acute difference, from a simulationist point of view. World of darkness is not a simulationist game. I've seen this done before with good results (although they used the term Assault Skill instead of CQC Skill), and makes cogent sense in a game where a knife, a bullet and a lit candle inflict equal damage.


I think the decision to carry around lethal death dealing equipment should be an ongoing question, variable on the situation, rather than a decision you make in character gen and then deal with every session thereafter.

(\

DD: a cane is basically a baseball bat. Check improvised weapons :P

the_druid_droid
2012-12-09, 08:48 PM
Ah, that's reassuring then.

Also, Cane-weapon? Why not just mesh it with a shotgun's mechanisms to have a single-action shotgun cane? Might be worth salvaging a pistol too, cause shotguns and canes, neither comes with a safety catch I don't think?

Should be doable with only a small amount of matter, as I'm sure there's that one rote that basically does this.

Alternatively, canibalise a taser instead in the same way and have a stun-stick.

Hmm, I'll think about it. Like I said, guns don't quite hit the spot for some reason, and I think part of it is that Turing could be a brute; it's certainly lurking under the surface, and guns seem too detached.


Wood is Durability 1. Metal is Durability 2. Reinforced steel is 3(+1 for each reinforcing layer).

Ah. In that regard, I might get it reinforced, and bump the equipment bonus up to +2 or +3.


Whatever you originally invested will be refunded, be it XP or character gen dots.

I believe that was bought using chargen dots.

SiuiS
2012-12-09, 08:50 PM
I believe that was bought using chargen dots.

char-gen dots don't tier, you could just get CQC 4.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-09, 08:54 PM
char-gen dots don't tier, you could just get CQC 4.

I am strongly considering it if the consolidation gets implemented.

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 08:57 PM
No, I honestly just couldn't see you being interested in the mechanics.
And you snubbed "classic literature" because you thought the authors were stuffy prudes. Come on man, you're a complex individual. Are you really surprised you send mixed signals?

A lot of classic literature is genuine rubbish which only achieves continuation due to inertia. There are some gems (Sherlock Holmes) but a lot of duds.

Anyway, while I am traditionally not thrilled by third-person shooter mechanics, Spec Ops' mechanics perfectly integrate with it's narrative.

I also have 400 hours clocked in TF2, sooo.


So wait
If you have those spells yourself, you have to spend the XP and the investiture to release the spell? Terribly suboptimal, and a huge disconnect between PC and NPC crafting capability.

No, if you want to do it yourself you can get whatever spending the 8xp on Permanency will get you.

NPCs can all produce stuff equal to the enhanced item merit for PC use because otherwise complexity, unfairness, and bias.


There is an acute difference, from a simulationist point of view. World of darkness is not a simulationist game. I've seen this done before with good results (although they used the term Assault Skill instead of CQC Skill), and makes cogent sense in a game where a knife, a bullet and a lit candle inflict equal damage.

A candle can't actually do any damage, dude. A knife is +0L and the weakest handgun is +2L ignores defense. There's a big difference there.

Deadly
2012-12-09, 08:58 PM
General discussion:

I am considering merging Weaponry and Brawl into a single stat, called Close Quarters Combat

I've been watching a lot of action movies and fight scenes recently, paying careful attention to fight choreography and how I can translate it to a written medium. I've noticed that all action movies tend to feature fairly fluid transitions between armed and unarmed combat. I've also noticed I literally cannot think of a single guy who fights with a weapon who can't throw a punch when he needs to. I find the idea of roughhousing bikers in a bar getting less menacing when they pull knives ridiculous.

I think it's lame to force a CQC specialist to double-invest in two skills, especially because (and this was the Dawn Caste Problem) they both apply to the same scenes and you can only use one at a time. This makes it incredibly mechanically optimal to invest in one or the other, which results in weird things. I know for a fact my martial arts instructor doesn't lose five dice off his 'kick your ass' pool when he picks up a knife. Instead of being an entirely separate discipline, picking up a knife narratively shows that one side is prepared to raise the stakes.

Anyway, both skills are intrinsically inferior to Firearms, so I don't see this being game breaking. I honestly suspect this was purely done to maintain the 8/8/8 skill division between physical, social and mental.

Thoughts or responses?

From a game point of view, I can definitely see your point that the division doesn't serve much purpose. And I do support the change.

However, I would note that I suspect it might be based on how real world martial arts often do divide this sort of thing. Look up Escrima, for example. It is a martial art focused mostly on weapons use and defense. Then look at a lot of other martial arts. They are often highly or entirely focused on combat without weapons, or if weapons are involved its only later and might be limited to defense against weapons.

Back when I trained Wing Tsun it was a very clear distinction. Maybe that's peculiar to WT or maybe just our local branch, although I don't think so. While there was some basic training in defense against weapons at high levels, actual training with weapons was not part of Wing Tsun, you had to train Escrima or something similar for that. You could train Wing Tsun for years and never learn to use any weapon except in the way that everyone can use a weapon, which is probably a 0-dot thing.

Anyone can pick up a knife and be menacing and dangerous without any training, but actually using that knife in any fancy way takes training which is not always part of whatever martial arts you pick. And using it effectively against someone who is alert and trained in defense against knife wielding maniacs is going to require some actual skill with that weapon, I'd wager.

Going to repeat that I support your idea, however :smallsmile:

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 09:01 PM
Anyone can pick up a knife and be menacing and dangerous without any training, but actually using that knife in any fancy way takes training which is not always part of whatever martial arts you pick. And using it effectively against someone who is alert and trained in defense against knife wielding maniacs is going to require some actual skill with that weapon, I'd wager.

Going to repeat that I support your idea, however :smallsmile:

I've thought about this and actually believe this is best handled by Specialities.

After all, you get the same problem with drive, crafts, and expression all of which are umbrella skills that cover a vast array of not-necessarily interchangeable skills. Drive covers aircraft but you can't use drive for aircraft without a pilot speciality. I'll apply a similar thing here.

Deadly
2012-12-09, 09:03 PM
I've thought about this and actually believe this is best handled by Specialities.

After all, you get the same problem with drive, crafts, and expression all of which are umbrella skills that cover a vast array of not-necessarily interchangeable skills. Drive covers aircraft but you can't use drive for aircraft without a pilot speciality. I'll apply a similar thing here.

That sounds like a good way to do it

Anarion
2012-12-09, 09:36 PM
Also, thinking about another Moros idea (not really Turing's bag, but since I'm on magic mechanic speculations) what level would you need of Death to be able to manipulate shadows as a functional set of weapons and/or possibly armor. I know they sort of hint at that at Death 3, although it seems to imply a weak effect... And presumably shadow weapons would be just differently shaped shadow objects, and not fundamentally different from shielding. I'm thinking here of a sort of creepy, shadow-lurking watcher that uses them for concealment as well as a damaging way to distract people that get aggressive. I'm imagining here something similar to, but not really the same as a Vector Arrow effect.

The cane has been answered already by and large. For the shadow thing, I see no reason why you couldn't refluff any death 3+ vulgar damage spell as shooting people with shadows. You could get bashing damage at death 3, lethal at death 4, and aggravated at death 5. It's mechanically identical to any other vulgar damage spell.


Remember, this is a game about going mad with power.

Step one is that you actually have that power.


Rats. I knew I was forgetting something.



General discussion:

I am considering merging Weaponry and Brawl into a single stat, called Close Quarters Combat

I've been watching a lot of action movies and fight scenes recently, paying careful attention to fight choreography and how I can translate it to a written medium. I've noticed that all action movies tend to feature fairly fluid transitions between armed and unarmed combat. I've also noticed I literally cannot think of a single guy who fights with a weapon who can't throw a punch when he needs to. I find the idea of roughhousing bikers in a bar getting less menacing when they pull knives ridiculous.

I think it's lame to force a CQC specialist to double-invest in two skills, especially because (and this was the Dawn Caste Problem) they both apply to the same scenes and you can only use one at a time. This makes it incredibly mechanically optimal to invest in one or the other, which results in weird things. I know for a fact my martial arts instructor doesn't lose five dice off his 'kick your ass' pool when he picks up a knife. Instead of being an entirely separate discipline, picking up a knife narratively shows that one side is prepared to raise the stakes.

Anyway, both skills are intrinsically inferior to Firearms, so I don't see this being game breaking. I honestly suspect this was purely done to maintain the 8/8/8 skill division between physical, social and mental.

Thoughts or responses?

I am neutral on this change, don't much mind either way.

Here's a couple thoughts. I like the brawl-->weaponry flavor better than the weaponry-->brawl flavor. That is, if someone draws a knife, I agree they should get more dangerous. But I also like disarming, and it kinda sucks that taking away that fencing ace's weapon no longer does much. I also think this encourages capturing rather than killing, since a weapon specialist can always switch to bashing damage.

I do have a mechanical question. Would you have this affect how weapons work with defense or is this purely upside?


That would be the intention, yes. =D

Succeeding.

Thanqol
2012-12-09, 09:45 PM
I am neutral on this change, don't much mind either way.

Here's a couple thoughts. I like the brawl-->weaponry flavor better than the weaponry-->brawl flavor. That is, if someone draws a knife, I agree they should get more dangerous. But I also like disarming, and it kinda sucks that taking away that fencing ace's weapon no longer does much. I also think this encourages capturing rather than killing, since a weapon specialist can always switch to bashing damage.

Okay, imagine the kind of guy who's helpless without his sword - the delicate fencing master who relies on speed and reflexes, right? He's high dex, low strength, weapon finesse merit. When he's disarmed and forced to rely on his low strength stat he IS at a disadvantage. Disarming the big bruiser who can just punch you in the face shouldn't be a huge (fight ending huge) disadvantage for the bloke.

Moreover, taking away a weapon a guy is specialised in can be a 3-4 dice penalty and a downgrade to Bashing. That's a big deal, equivalent to another Mage shield or blinding the dude.


I do have a mechanical question. Would you have this affect how weapons work with defense or is this purely upside?

I don't see why it would.

SiuiS
2012-12-09, 09:53 PM
I also have 400 hours clocked in TF2, sooo.


Fair.


No, if you want to do it yourself you can get whatever spending the 8xp on Permanency will get you.

NPCs can all produce stuff equal to the enhanced item merit for PC use because otherwise complexity, unfairness, and bias.*


It strikes me as odd that the spells to achieve item creation are right there but somehow inferior to items which specifically say "achievable via the Imbue Item spell" and such. There's also an alternate system in Tome of Mysteries for group item creation so the Prime guy can use the Fate guy's arcana, and alternate methods of paying for the permanency so you can try and keep your willpower dot.

If you mean; getting an item still requires experience expenditure, just like allies, a familiar, etc. then I am okay with that.

However, I am hearing (and it may only be our discrepancy in language use) that it is actually inferior for, say, Amun to make an item using imbue item, than if he went to Kurosawa, paid XP and had Kurosawa use the same spell. That... Strikes me as wrong.

I suspect I am just misunderstanding you however. :smallsmile:



A candle can't actually do any damage, dude. A knife is +0L and the weakest handgun is +2L ignores defense. There's a big difference there.

Candle deals 1L (all fire deals automatic, a candle does not add bonus damage for its intensity, which implies, along with the flat out statement that candle is included in the damaging effects of fire, that it's intensity is low enough to not be dangerous but it's still fire. Also, +2L affects the maximum damage, not the minimum. Guns do not do automatic 2 damage.

None of this is germane to the point I made, which is that the minimum damage from fire, knife wounds, bullets, none breaks, subatomic dispersal, dimensional flux, and speeding automobiles is all one point of lethal damage, which points to the system not working with the granularity one would assume comes from a fist/weapon split.


And no, I don't think 3 seconds of contact with a candle should inflict one lethal. It's useful for hyperbole as an example however. :smalltongue:



However, I would note that I suspect it might be based on how real world martial arts often do divide this sort of thing. Look up Escrima, for example. It is a martial art focused mostly on weapons use and defense. Then look at a lot of other martial arts. They are often highly or entirely focused on combat without weapons, or if weapons are involved its only later and might be limited to defense against weapons.

Escrima is actually noteworthy in that it's the one martial art that specifically advertises that the same system works with both weapons and open hand, so I don't think it's the best example to use, luv :smallwink:


I've thought about this and actually believe this is best handled by Specialities.

After all, you get the same problem with drive, crafts, and expression all of which are umbrella skills that cover a vast array of not-necessarily interchangeable skills. Drive covers aircraft but you can't use drive for aircraft without a pilot speciality. I'll apply a similar thing here.

Called it!

Anarion
2012-12-10, 12:28 AM
[Some kind of social roll involved to get him to go on]

So...Deadly, Tiki. Which of you wants to butt in before the girl who's only social skill above 1 is expression tries to sing the "please keep explaining" song?


Edit: Although I suppose I could always fall back on striking looks. That usually works, right?

the_druid_droid
2012-12-10, 01:42 AM
Sudden realization: a Matter Disciple would really have been useful there. Transmute any solid compound into any other. You can take the cocaine hit but make it flour or somesuch on the way up.

God, magic is useful.

Anarion
2012-12-10, 01:57 AM
What I want to know is how in the world this guy got a job as a lawyer. I'm getting into the profession and it is by far the most conservative profession I've ever seen. If any law firm so much as got a whiff that someone was doing cocaine, they would be out the door before they finished taking their hit.

SiuiS
2012-12-10, 03:21 AM
What I want to know is how in the world this guy got a job as a lawyer. I'm getting into the profession and it is by far the most conservative profession I've ever seen. If any law firm so much as got a whiff that someone was doing cocaine, they would be out the door before they finished taking their hit.

The hazards of being a professional the likes of which are only really expressed as stereotypes. If the entire firm is less a "law firm" and more a self congratulating fraternity of rich *******s with law degrees who managed to bribe their way through Detroit's crooked infrastructure and come out with a veneer of legitimacy, then they would still be a law firm if not anywhere close to a working one.

Thanqol
2012-12-10, 04:39 AM
So...Deadly, Tiki. Which of you wants to butt in before the girl who's only social skill above 1 is expression tries to sing the "please keep explaining" song?


Edit: Although I suppose I could always fall back on striking looks. That usually works, right?

Worth the +1 for sure.


What I want to know is how in the world this guy got a job as a lawyer. I'm getting into the profession and it is by far the most conservative profession I've ever seen. If any law firm so much as got a whiff that someone was doing cocaine, they would be out the door before they finished taking their hit.

My tabletop ST has conditioned me to believe that all American lawyers are drugged up amoral bastards. Admittedly, we have mostly been dealing with Seer lawyers, specifically the dudes who defend drug dealers in courts.

Deadly
2012-12-10, 07:00 AM
Escrima is actually noteworthy in that it's the one martial art that specifically advertises that the same system works with both weapons and open hand, so I don't think it's the best example to use, luv :smallwink:

Sure, but Escrima is still an art with a very strong focus on weapons (even though the same techniques may also be useful without weapons, since I'm no expert I can't comment on this) whereas many other martial arts deal a lot less with weapons and do so more as a kind of side note

The point was, if you want to really learn to use weapons you're probably better off training something specifically weapons-based like Escrima rather than a more unarmed-focused art. And likewise I'm sure it's not a bad idea if you want a broad focus on unarmed combat to train something else for that. Combining them gets you best of both worlds, which is why the combination of Escrima and Wing Tsun is so popular around here, I'm sure. Also no doubt because they blend very well, of course.

SiuiS
2012-12-10, 07:53 AM
Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I misunderstood your point in bringing it up.

Deadly
2012-12-10, 10:20 AM
Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I misunderstood your point in bringing it up.

No worries

And every time I talk about this stuff I'm reminded how much I'd like to get back to training Wing Tsun. It's been twelve years or so :smallfrown: Maybe that should be a goal for the new year

the_druid_droid
2012-12-10, 10:48 PM
Thought I'd use Turing's downtime to flesh out the Physics Library a bit, and then do some of the narrative work on the beginnings of his big magical project (probably get into that in the next post or so).

Thanqol
2012-12-10, 11:26 PM
This is the point where I'll ask for your two-dice Wisdom roll, Druid.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-11, 12:42 AM
Rolled a 5 and 4. That's degeneration - do I also roll the new rating for derangements?

Thanqol
2012-12-11, 12:44 AM
Rolled a 5 and 4. That's degeneration - do I also roll the new rating for derangements?

Correct. You may also take your 5xp.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-11, 01:23 AM
Wow, six rolls and no successes. I got like three 7s though...

Anyway, guess that's a derangement.

Thanqol
2012-12-11, 02:29 AM
Wow, six rolls and no successes. I got like three 7s though...

Anyway, guess that's a derangement.

Pick what's suitable for the character.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-11, 08:27 PM
Pick what's suitable for the character.

I think Depression is going to be my choice here.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-12, 09:01 PM
Question; The concept was, originally, that Jack's wife was infact significantly better off than he was in the first place (and that this or rather the psychology that this lead to) was part of the reason it all went so horribly wrong.

Does this not open up the possibility, if there is to be a divorce trial over money, that it would be Jack getting a cut of HER stuff, rather than the other way around?
In theory at least, still not sure of various things.

Thanqol
2012-12-12, 09:03 PM
Question; The concept was, originally, that Jack's wife was infact significantly better off than he was in the first place (and that this or rather the psychology that this lead to) was part of the reason it all went so horribly wrong.

Does this not open up the possibility, if there is to be a divorce trial over money, that it would be Jack getting a cut of HER stuff, rather than the other way around?
In theory at least, still not sure of various things.

Pretty much. But because she didn't set up a decent pre-nup, now you've got a shot at half her wealth through this court battle. Technically most of the resources you've been using so far have been hers.

This is the most coherent theory on Jack's financial position I can come up with.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-12, 09:06 PM
I'll just go with that theory, I think. That leaves me to figure out whether Jack would, infact, go for the money.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-12, 09:09 PM
You'd think after the Abyssal plate I'd learn not to wander around by myself...

Anarion
2012-12-12, 09:42 PM
You'd think after the Abyssal plate I'd learn not to wander around by myself...

Yeah, wow. You are like a walking target for paradox manifestations. It's almost like you're part of some mystical order specifically tasked with finding them and removing them...wait.



On other topics. Thanqol, I will bet you real money that courts will not allow videoconferencing in place of personal appearances in 2015.

Thanqol
2012-12-12, 10:27 PM
On other topics. Thanqol, I will bet you real money that courts will not allow videoconferencing in place of personal appearances in 2015.

Surprise (http://www.videoconferencing-legal.com/)!

Pay up.

Anarion
2012-12-13, 01:42 AM
Surprise (http://www.videoconferencing-legal.com/)!

Pay up.

Ah, I was inartful. That's for depositions and experts primarily. They've allowed video for that for several years. They've also allowed video testimony of minors in abuse cases since video existed. I don't believe that service would excuse a plaintiff or defendant (such as Jack) from appearing in court personally for a suit involving him/her as the named party in suit.

Edit: Still I didn't say named parties. So, how would you like to receive your penny?

Edit 2: Yeah that link even specifically says it's especially useful for witnesses who might have difficulty testifying for reasons such as age or intimidation.

Thanqol
2012-12-13, 01:58 AM
Ah, I was inartful. That's for depositions and experts primarily. They've allowed video for that for several years. They've also allowed video testimony of minors in abuse cases since video existed. I don't believe that service would excuse a plaintiff or defendant (such as Jack) from appearing in court personally for a suit involving him/her as the named party in suit.

Edit: Still I didn't say named parties. So, how would you like to receive your penny?

Edit 2: Yeah that link even specifically says it's especially useful for witnesses who might have difficulty testifying for reasons such as age or intimidation.


The legal profession uses videoconferencing pre-trial to take testimony or interview witnesses. It is also useful for additional meetings between Counsel, administrative and appeal hearings, and recently 'Virtual Courts' where defendants are tried remotely.

I would like my penny thrown in the luckiest wishing well in a 50 mile radius from where you live.


EDIT: Also remember we're talking UK law not American law:




At the time of writing, 1 man has been convicted of drink driving and sentenced from the police station, thereby feeling the true might of swift justice. The scheme, championed by the same Jack Straw from 1999, now the Justice Minister, has divided the judiciary. The Law Society has expressed concerns over safety; no dock or court officers to buffer any possible violence and also that defence lawyers will be forced to make quick decisions and lose the valuable time usually taken in creating a defence.

Meanwhile the Chief Executive of the London Criminal Justice Board (Andrew Morely) was reported in the Sutton Guardian as saying : ‘We are committed to testing new ways of improving the public’s experience of the criminal justice system … we have shown … that it is possible for the court to deal with the first appearances over a video link’.

EDIT EDIT


The Access to Justice Act, 1999 allows a video link to be used for civil hearings, e.g. case management conferences, ancillary relief hearings, overseas or remote witnesses or in any civil cases in which the court directs the use of a video link and the parties involved consent to its use.

Anarion
2012-12-13, 02:42 AM
I would like my penny thrown in the luckiest wishing well in a 50 mile radius from where you live.


Done and done. And totally worth it to learn something cool. The actual penny throwing may be delayed until January, however, due to the challenge of taking time to reach said wishing well.

Thanqol
2012-12-14, 10:40 PM
At this point, I'm prepared to call that a chapter close and hand out XP. You guys have no further commitments right now so you can talk amongst yourselves and head home at your own time.

XP:
1: Showing up
1: Roleplaying
1: If you can articulate something you've learned
1: Dangerous situations
2: Finishing a story (Slade)

Total 6 regular XP

Arcane XP:
Remind me of all the arcane things you did since the last XP interval? Remember, Abyss don't count.

Political XP:
1: Joining the Guardians formally
1: Maintaining a reasonable tone with the Seers

Total 2 Political

Anarion
2012-12-14, 11:25 PM
At this point, I'm prepared to call that a chapter close and hand out XP. You guys have no further commitments right now so you can talk amongst yourselves and head home at your own time.

XP:
1: Showing up
1: Roleplaying
1: If you can articulate something you've learned
1: Dangerous situations
2: Finishing a story (Slade)

Total 6 regular XP

Arcane XP:
Remind me of all the arcane things you did since the last XP interval? Remember, Abyss don't count.

Political XP:
1: Joining the Guardians formally
1: Maintaining a reasonable tone with the Seers

Total 2 Political

Clarifying question: The political XP can be spent on any connections, right? So I can use the fact that we dealt with the Guardians and Seers to buy a dot of Silver Ladder status if I want?


Arcane stuff: Okay, we stopped last time at cleaning up the manifestation and altering the calender, so I think that's covered. Here's what I've got from skimming the thread

1. We actually used our own Hallow for the first time
2. Tessen learned spirit magic from Kurosawa
3. We found out that the drug addict guy had no name and got some of the basics of a ritual that could make him a mage, maybe.
4. Experienced a demense for the first time at Firebee's
5. Crazy murder death gun
6. Any of the myriad spirit-related things (visions of Detroit, painting the room in the skyscraper and both creating and destroying spirits, Cyprus's spiritless restaurant area)
7. Everything related to Cyprus, soulstones, and her awakening.
8. Possibly Slade's catatonic state and whatever legacy or weird thing was affecting him. Though we didn't really figure that out, but maybe that's a lead we can pursue.
9. The anomaly doesn't count, I'm not sure about that whole magical barrage we threw at the zombies. Anything notable there, or was that just normal magic?
10. Whatever the heck happened to Turing when Errant got all stabbity on him.
11. Anything related to the Quiet
12. Figuring out how Belle Isle is messed up (maybe this is still incomplete?)
13. Turing's ghost conversation with Slade, if anything relevant came up

And that's all I got.


Oh hey, so while reviewing the thread, I noticed that Tessen had a question that never got answered. What happened to the phone that Overlord called you guys on?

Thanqol
2012-12-14, 11:32 PM
Clarifying question: The political XP can be spent on any connections, right? So I can use the fact that we dealt with the Guardians and Seers to buy a dot of Silver Ladder status if I want?

Yes.


1. We actually used our own Hallow for the first time

No.


2. Tessen learned spirit magic from Kurosawa

No. (That was spending XP)



3. We found out that the drug addict guy had no name and got some of the basics of a ritual that could make him a mage, maybe.

Mm, no, not yet. There's definitely a point there but you haven't researched enough about nameless stuff. Finding the ritual is definitely a point.


4. Experienced a demense for the first time at Firebee's

Yes. 1 Point.


5. Crazy murder death gun

No. There's a point there once you figure it out.


6. Any of the myriad spirit-related things (visions of Detroit, painting the room in the skyscraper and both creating and destroying spirits, Cyprus's spiritless restaurant area)

Mm, no, that's just a regular use of power.


7. Everything related to Cyprus, soulstones, and her awakening.

Absolutely. Two points total.


8. Possibly Slade's catatonic state and whatever legacy or weird thing was affecting him. Though we didn't really figure that out, but maybe that's a lead we can pursue.

No. Possibly a point later.


9. The anomaly doesn't count, I'm not sure about that whole magical barrage we threw at the zombies. Anything notable there, or was that just normal magic?

No.


10. Whatever the heck happened to Turing when Errant got all stabbity on him.

That's a lead-in to something else.


11. Anything related to the Quiet

No. They didn't show you their magic, legacies, or secret magic techniques.


12. Figuring out how Belle Isle is messed up (maybe this is still incomplete?)

Still incomplete, though you're asking better questions.


13. Turing's ghost conversation with Slade, if anything relevant came up

No.


Two Arcane total, with a lot of lead-ins and new threads.


Oh hey, so while reviewing the thread, I noticed that Tessen had a question that never got answered. What happened to the phone that Overlord called you guys on?

I'm totally fine with you still having it. It's a $10 disposable mobile phone that's been scoured of sympathetic connections with Space magic, and the only phone it's called is another cheap disposable mobile phone that has also been scoured of sympathetic connections and tossed out of the window of a speeding van. That's a dead end is what I'm saying.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-14, 11:51 PM
Dear Princess Celestia,

Today I learned that sometimes you don't know who to trust, and that's when you have to make the call for yourself. Sometimes that involves shooting people in the head, and sometimes it means doing just the opposite.

Your repeatedly deceased but as-yet-persevering student,
Turing

(Also, he's in general had the sentiment about sinning for others' Wisdom really ingrained into his system after the bit with Slade)

Anarion
2012-12-14, 11:58 PM
Two Arcane total, with a lot of lead-ins and new threads.


Three by my count. 2 for Cyprus, 1 for the demense.



I'm totally fine with you still having it. It's a $10 disposable mobile phone that's been scoured of sympathetic connections with Space magic, and the only phone it's called is another cheap disposable mobile phone that has also been scoured of sympathetic connections and tossed out of the window of a speeding van. That's a dead end is what I'm saying.

Nuts, never mind then.



Dear Princess Celestia,

Today, I learned what a paradox feels like. What happened was horrible. All that stuff ruined, and all that attention. If it happens again, it could get us killed. So, why did it feel so good? When I cast that spell and started running, I felt uplifted, almost like I was back in the Supernal for just a brief moment. I'm afraid, Princess. Afraid to try casting vulgar magic again. Afraid of risking another paradox. Afraid that I might like it.

Your troubled student,
Tessen

Lix Lorn
2012-12-15, 12:26 AM
Dear Princess Celestia,

Today I learned that sometimes you don't know who to trust, and that's when you have to make the call for yourself. Sometimes that involves shooting people in the head, and sometimes it means doing just the opposite.

Your repeatedly deceased but as-yet-persevering student,
Turing

(Also, he's in general had the sentiment about sinning for others' Wisdom really ingrained into his system after the bit with Slade)
Hee. (hugs for you, and one for Turing too cause he may need it)


Dear Princess Celestia,

Today, I learned what a paradox feels like. What happened was horrible. All that stuff ruined, and all that attention. If it happens again, it could get us killed. So, why did it feel so good? When I cast that spell and started running, I felt uplifted, almost like I was back in the Supernal for just a brief moment. I'm afraid, Princess. Afraid to try casting vulgar magic again. Afraid of risking another paradox. Afraid that I might like it.

Your troubled student,
Tessen
...hug for Anarion, and a dedicated Lixie clone to hug Tessen.

SiuiS
2012-12-15, 04:01 AM
Yes.

No.

So rule of thumb; if it's a magic thing which is part of a greater mystery, points for solving it. If its a unique magic thing that's just there but you don't know what it does, what then?



Dear Princess Celestia,

Today, I learned what a paradox feels like. What happened was horrible. All that stuff ruined, and all that attention. If it happens again, it could get us killed. So, why did it feel so good? When I cast that spell and started running, I felt uplifted, almost like I was back in the Supernal for just a brief moment. I'm afraid, Princess. Afraid to try casting vulgar magic again. Afraid of risking another paradox. Afraid that I might like it.

Your troubled student,
Tessen

bangarang!

Sometimes I see something that just hooks the psyche, draws you in. This is it. This is the blurb that would sell Skyscraper Graveyard the novel.

Thanqol
2012-12-15, 04:17 AM
So rule of thumb; if it's a magic thing which is part of a greater mystery, points for solving it. If its a unique magic thing that's just there but you don't know what it does, what then?

The actual text of the book, p341, awards Arcane XP for:
- Brushing up against an unknown supernatural phenomenon and sheds light on it's mystery.
- Makes a substantial discovery about the supernatural
- Solves a supernatural enigma
- Participating in the resolution of a supernatural dilemma
- Travel in the Astral Realm


bangarang!

Sometimes I see something that just hooks the psyche, draws you in. This is it. This is the blurb that would sell Skyscraper Graveyard the novel.

Some privileged insight I have is preventing me from responding the way I want to.

Deadly
2012-12-15, 09:23 AM
Dear Princess Celestia

Today I learned that the universe is like a dog, and that it can be playful, and that is acceptable and to be expected of a dog sometimes. As long as it does not become a bad dog, a little playfulness is fine.

Today we have seen what the world can be like when it is a bad dog. It is not pretty, and it can be worse still. When nothing you do seems to go right, there's nothing much you can do. I have learned that in such situations you may be down to the most base and primitive options, such as fighting, with your bare hands no less. That is not a position you want to be in, but you need to be able to roll with anything the world throws at you.

And that is why I need to learn to fight.

Yours hopefully
Amun-Ra

P.S. Mind, cats are still superior to dogs and know to follow their own path, not that of others. It's a good thing the universe is not a cat.

Anarion
2012-12-15, 01:16 PM
...hug for Anarion, and a dedicated Lixie clone to hug Tessen.

:smalleek:...awesome.



bangarang!

Sometimes I see something that just hooks the psyche, draws you in. This is it. This is the blurb that would sell Skyscraper Graveyard the novel.

Eh, I find Tessen's potential battle with corruption to be a B plot here. More of a mirror reflecting the city at an individual level. Plus, she ain't corrupted yet, and her overcoming her cowardice could be a pretty big moment for her, if it works out.

The A plot seems to have something to say about the nature of the human soul and the essence of a city. We've only scratched the surface on that one, hit upon a couple metaphorical concepts, but we're not there yet and I eagerly await it's full manifestation.


The actual text of the book, p341, awards Arcane XP for:
- Brushing up against an unknown supernatural phenomenon and sheds light on it's mystery.
- Makes a substantial discovery about the supernatural
- Solves a supernatural enigma
- Participating in the resolution of a supernatural dilemma
- Travel in the Astral Realm


Yeah, I'm intentionally bringing up everything generally arcane related when you've asked for this to help us sift through what's going on and what plot threads we should still be pursuing, knowing that many of them probably aren't ripe for XP yet.



Some privileged insight I have is preventing me from responding the way I want to.

nuts.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-15, 10:48 PM
Dear Princess Celestia.

I have no idea what I've learnt since I last wrote. I suppose I have learnt that it's possible that the Seers of the Throne, far from being a well polished conspiracy with grand goals and few scruples are actually just small, short sighted and essentially selfish human beings.

I've learnt that I can't really hate them for that.

The Free Council say that we must destroy followers of the Lie. I've learnt that I'm not willing to limit myself to literal interpretations. I think I might be learning that I have a real problem with the idea of simply doing as I'm told. Though perhaps it is more that I just don't want to allow people to control me. I've certainly learned that people will try.

Yours for a song,
Jack of Hearts

Anarion
2012-12-15, 10:49 PM
I can't believe that's covert! Volume: I have no idea

It seems that the Pentacle in Detroit are displeased with the current image of the police force. Fortunately, the Free Counsel had just the answer in mind: crowdfunding. And what did they crowdfund, you might ask?

Why a life-size monument of Robocop (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/imaginationstation/detroit-needs-a-statue-of-robocop?ref=card), of course. After all, what better symbol could they find for a true police force, concerned with serving and protecting the population of the city?

And, of course, they also composed a rap to explain the virtues of their plan.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-16, 12:42 AM
Brain is a little behind schedule. Can't word today. Hopefully I'll be back in action tomorrow.

SiuiS
2012-12-16, 05:11 AM
The actual text of the book, p341, awards Arcane XP for:
- Brushing up against an unknown supernatural phenomenon and sheds light on it's mystery.
- Makes a substantial discovery about the supernatural
- Solves a supernatural enigma
- Participating in the resolution of a supernatural dilemma
- Travel in the Astral Realm

That's the issue. Substantial probably covers the difference, but I tend to notice that substantial discoveries are often part of a mystery. I enjoy Snarion's barrage because I can use it like an exam, guessing judgement based on what I recall and then see your 'answer key' afterward.



Some privileged insight I have is preventing me from responding the way I want to.

Writing a novel on Detroit, huh?



Eh, I find Tessen's potential battle with corruption to be a B plot here. More of a mirror reflecting the city at an individual level. Plus, she ain't corrupted yet, and her overcoming her cowardice could be a pretty big moment for her, if it works out.

The A plot seems to have something to say about the nature of the human soul and the essence of a city. We've only scratched the surface on that one, hit upon a couple metaphorical concepts, but we're not there yet and I eagerly await it's full manifestation.

It's all in the presentation.
"Tessen has evil cracks in her soul and worries they'll take bet" is dumb. The blurb however, is awesome. That was a compliment on your writing as much as the situation.

Deadly
2012-12-16, 08:28 AM
So I'm thinking of spending my 11 arcane and 5 of my 7 regular xp to raise gnosis to 2. I don't have a whole lot else to use xp on right now, and it seems a sensible choice?

Thanqol
2012-12-16, 08:47 AM
So I'm thinking of spending my 11 arcane and 5 of my 7 regular xp to raise gnosis to 2. I don't have a whole lot else to use xp on right now, and it seems a sensible choice?

No worries. Gnosis 1 to 2 is pretty much "I'm getting the hang of this magic stuff now" so no special Roleplaying considerations needed.

Deadly
2012-12-16, 08:51 AM
No worries. Gnosis 1 to 2 is pretty much "I'm getting the hang of this magic stuff now" so no special Roleplaying considerations needed.

Excellent. I'll go ahead with that, then.

Anarion
2012-12-16, 11:08 AM
I enjoy Snarion's barrage because I can use it like an exam, guessing judgement based on what I recall and then see your 'answer key' afterward.


Who? :smalltongue:



It's all in the presentation.
"Tessen has evil cracks in her soul and worries they'll take bet" is dumb. The blurb however, is awesome. That was a compliment on your writing as much as the situation.

I appreciate that. I'm certainly happy to be selling this game in any aspect. I was more commenting that, regardless of quality, I think Tessen's story is part of a much greater whole, so I would never use it standing alone as a pitch for the game because it misleads as to focus.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-16, 12:49 PM
Eh, I find Tessen's potential battle with corruption to be a B plot here. More of a mirror reflecting the city at an individual level. Plus, she ain't corrupted yet, and her overcoming her cowardice could be a pretty big moment for her, if it works out.

On reflection, I think my narrative senses are telling me that Tessen is probably as close as we get to having a Main Protagonist. Obviously, it is an ensemble piece, but as far as narrative-thinking goes, I think she edges out on this one.

Which is to say, Jack's themes and so on and how they interact with the story that is developing feel very much like, not a side story as such, but definately of the supporting nature in some sense. With Turing and his themes having a similar, mirrored kind of thing going on, the two acting as sometimes but not always contrasting elements on either side of Tessen. Amun is a strange one, but I very much get the feeling that with Amun's themes being about re-arranging the city in a grand magical manner, that were this a story in that sense, Amun fits the role of the enigmatic who goes on to be fundamental as the story progresses. This kind of goes well with the nature of Amun's sub-themes about identity and the self, which are also kind of relevant to and in contrast to Tessen's current...state.

The fact that Tessen is so conflicted and uncertain on some things and so absolutely certain on others is part of why my sense of narrative frames it this way. Obviously, as this isn't a story that Thanqol is writing but instead a collaborative tale that we are all creating, in truth the above doesn't apply at all (except in theory from Anarion's viewpoint) as our characters are the central character of their own, intertwined narratives. But that's a lot more complex and a lot less neat.

You get the idea though.

EDIT - Adding here so as to avoid double posting.

Been thinking, decided to post a breif explanation of how I understood Jack's finances and general situation to be working, for comparison if nothing else.
So, without going back to reread what I wrote for his backstory, the idea was that whilst he and his ex were still together, around the point where it had begun to go wrong, She had certain stocks, shares and so on transfered to Jack's name, to drag him into the business world and try and get him to stop acting like such a soppy, liberal layabout. (As well as getting him to work on the board of her company or something along those lines, fi I remember. Where he met the person he had a fling with, of course). When Jack awakened and was spirited away to Germany in mysterious circumstances, with nothing but the clothes on his back he set out to start a new life and cut ties with the old one. That would have involved cashing in those shares, stocks, options and other financially business stuff (it's all interchangeable to me), putting the money in a brand new bank account and preferably cutting sympathetic ties with both the old business and his own existing, abandoned account. The money would then be re-invested, possibly with the aid of an appropriate professional, with the proceeds providing Jack's living expenses. Part of that lump sum Jack would keep personal control over, and using a mixture of Fate magic for gut feelings and time magic for more direct divining, pick out worthy, promising start-up companies and get in at the ground floor, cashing in once their rise had started to take hold, so that the company is given a helping hand up at the most difficult stage and Jack is able to make a small profit doing so (and instead of riding the company like a gravy train, releasing it back in to the wild so as to not leave too many direct ties or become too involved with any one business).

This would let Jack support himself as well as give him the chance to put a little back, help spur regeneration and new growth.

This isn't incompatable with the whole divorce lawyer ambush thing of course, because there's still the possibility of the Ex wanting to recover the money she gave him, and the fact that the shares had been liquidated (I think that's the term), all ties cut and re-invested would make the trail hazy enough that she couldn't be sure where it had gone.

I certainly didn't intend to portray Jack as, say, directly drawing his resources from having access to a shared bank account, or something like that. I'm perfectly willing to just go with the flow on all this though. Not that I'm entirely sure how Jack will be handling the whole issue.

Anarion
2012-12-19, 07:22 PM
[Sure. Whenever this happens in tabletop, I play this mp3 file (http://youtu.be/E9SrpcqbG6o).]

Thanqol, I'm scared. I knew that was going to be Batman before I even finished reading your sentence.

Thanqol
2012-12-19, 09:17 PM
EDIT - Adding here so as to avoid double posting.

Been thinking, decided to post a breif explanation of how I understood Jack's finances and general situation to be working, for comparison if nothing else.
So, without going back to reread what I wrote for his backstory, the idea was that whilst he and his ex were still together, around the point where it had begun to go wrong, She had certain stocks, shares and so on transfered to Jack's name, to drag him into the business world and try and get him to stop acting like such a soppy, liberal layabout. (As well as getting him to work on the board of her company or something along those lines, fi I remember. Where he met the person he had a fling with, of course). When Jack awakened and was spirited away to Germany in mysterious circumstances, with nothing but the clothes on his back he set out to start a new life and cut ties with the old one. That would have involved cashing in those shares, stocks, options and other financially business stuff (it's all interchangeable to me), putting the money in a brand new bank account and preferably cutting sympathetic ties with both the old business and his own existing, abandoned account. The money would then be re-invested, possibly with the aid of an appropriate professional, with the proceeds providing Jack's living expenses. Part of that lump sum Jack would keep personal control over, and using a mixture of Fate magic for gut feelings and time magic for more direct divining, pick out worthy, promising start-up companies and get in at the ground floor, cashing in once their rise had started to take hold, so that the company is given a helping hand up at the most difficult stage and Jack is able to make a small profit doing so (and instead of riding the company like a gravy train, releasing it back in to the wild so as to not leave too many direct ties or become too involved with any one business).

This would let Jack support himself as well as give him the chance to put a little back, help spur regeneration and new growth.

This isn't incompatable with the whole divorce lawyer ambush thing of course, because there's still the possibility of the Ex wanting to recover the money she gave him, and the fact that the shares had been liquidated (I think that's the term), all ties cut and re-invested would make the trail hazy enough that she couldn't be sure where it had gone.

I certainly didn't intend to portray Jack as, say, directly drawing his resources from having access to a shared bank account, or something like that. I'm perfectly willing to just go with the flow on all this though. Not that I'm entirely sure how Jack will be handling the whole issue.

That all works - but your cutting sympathetic connections and transferring bank accounts and stuff was done wrong. Jack doesn't understand financials enough to launder all his money which was what let Sleeper organisations track him down despite his precautions. He missed a few critical points and all it took was a nudge from Fate for it to break.

In a nutshell, this is what happens when you try to vanish from your past life without taking the Occultation merit. You mess it up in some small but important way.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-19, 11:56 PM
That all works - but your cutting sympathetic connections and transferring bank accounts and stuff was done wrong. Jack doesn't understand financials enough to launder all his money which was what let Sleeper organisations track him down despite his precautions. He missed a few critical points and all it took was a nudge from Fate for it to break.

In a nutshell, this is what happens when you try to vanish from your past life without taking the Occultation merit. You mess it up in some small but important way.

Right. A more thorough non-occultation method would be to cut ties directly with his wife, but he either didn't think of that, couldn't bring himself to do it, or was worried that it might backfire somehow. (I'm not sure he's willing to elaborate on the issue, even in my head).

Anyway, that's fine. The important thing is that it clears up the main issue, which is that depending on whether or not we were going with him as above or instead using his ex's resources directly would drastically alter his likely reaction to the situation (beyond the current decision to play the whole thing down infront of the other two and think about it later on).

So we're cool, I can arrive at a natural decision. :smallsmile:

Thanqol
2012-12-19, 11:58 PM
Right. A more thorough non-occultation method would be to cut ties directly with his wife, but he either didn't think of that, couldn't bring himself to do it, or was worried that it might backfire somehow. (I'm not sure he's willing to elaborate on the issue, even in my head).

Anyway, that's fine. The important thing is that it clears up the main issue, which is that depending on whether or not we were going with him as above or instead using his ex's resources directly would drastically alter his likely reaction to the situation (beyond the current decision to play the whole thing down infront of the other two and think about it later on).

So we're cool, I can arrive at a natural decision. :smallsmile:

Yeah. You do need to have some basic amount of effort to maintain your resources, and since you hadn't listed one I decided to force the question. There's a few ways you can do that - well paying job, fate magic+stock market, whatever, but optimally it should be something with a few plot hooks to it. I believe the cabal has indicated an intention to aim for control of the media, which would be a fantastic place to start.

Thanqol
2012-12-20, 12:16 AM
There's No Way That's Covert, Issue 59: Paradox And Christmas Music

This episode (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/tis/one-hit-wonderland/37702-one-hit-wonderland-grandma-got-run-over-by-a-reindeer) of Todd in the Shadows was an exploration of an Abyssal Christmas Song. The song, and Todd's reaction, is awfully similar to how I view the Abyss and it's Intruders.

It's a bad song, that's for sure. It's about a creepily morbid topic and the video imagery borders on outright nightmarish, with horrifying empty stares and robotic mouth movements and deeply unpleasant vocals. It's not trashy, samey pop crap that the Throne puts out there - it's something that makes you tremble a bit in your heart, a faint edge of revulsion and nausea. Even the reviewer seems haggard and disgusted after it's complete, calling the review "a mistake" and desperately trying to claw his way back to mediocrity.

I think this is a very important lesson about horror in Mage games. It's not tentacles and godzilla demons (though you can use those; Cloverfield would be a good example thereof). The Abyss is about normal stuff gone wrong and hollowed out.

Anarion
2012-12-20, 12:36 AM
There's No Way That's Covert, Issue 59: Paradox And Christmas Music

This episode (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/tis/one-hit-wonderland/37702-one-hit-wonderland-grandma-got-run-over-by-a-reindeer) of Todd in the Shadows was an exploration of an Abyssal Christmas Song. The song, and Todd's reaction, is awfully similar to how I view the Abyss and it's Intruders.

It's a bad song, that's for sure. It's about a creepily morbid topic and the video imagery borders on outright nightmarish, with horrifying empty stares and robotic mouth movements and deeply unpleasant vocals. It's not trashy, samey pop crap that the Throne puts out there - it's something that makes you tremble a bit in your heart, a faint edge of revulsion and nausea. Even the reviewer seems haggard and disgusted after it's complete, calling the review "a mistake" and desperately trying to claw his way back to mediocrity.

I think this is a very important lesson about horror in Mage games. It's not tentacles and godzilla demons (though you can use those; Cloverfield would be a good example thereof). The Abyss is about normal stuff gone wrong and hollowed out.

Man, I knew that one was going bad when they started talking about "San Francisco country music stations." I don't know if I have the YouTube searching talents to do it justice, but you should try flipping through the radio some time in Gathering of Mists.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-20, 12:55 AM
Man, I knew that one was going bad when they started talking about "San Francisco country music stations." I don't know if I have the YouTube searching talents to do it justice, but you should try flipping through the radio some time in Gathering of Mists.

So, I wasn't seeing it at first, but when the lady (who I'm fairly sure was actually Elmo in reeeeally uncomfortable drag) with the curlers pulled her best Pinkie Pie at the camera and continued singing with that hollow-eyed expression, I think it hit me...

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-20, 01:52 AM
Yeah. You do need to have some basic amount of effort to maintain your resources, and since you hadn't listed one I decided to force the question. There's a few ways you can do that - well paying job, fate magic+stock market, whatever, but optimally it should be something with a few plot hooks to it. I believe the cabal has indicated an intention to aim for control of the media, which would be a fantastic place to start.

Theres a degree to which, not specifically in this game as much as in general, dealing with the question of how one earns ones resources is perhaps the thing I am least interested in. A chore to complete in order to continue with other stuff.

In the context of this game, I'll give it some thought, see if I can't figure out something remotely helpful.

SiuiS
2012-12-20, 02:49 AM
Theres a degree to which, not specifically in this game as much as in general, dealing with the question of how one earns ones resources is perhaps the thing I am least interested in. A chore to complete in order to continue with other stuff.

In the context of this game, I'll give it some thought, see if I can't figure out something remotely helpful.

It's actually not that bad. Just relax into it. After hours of agonizing meticulous overanalyzation, we were able to settle on my job being "novelty Caucasian in Japan" and it launched us right into an unfortunately aborted plot that seems awesome in retrospect. You're getting the same now, with your lawyer bit. I think Thanqol would possibly be content with "constant legal battle out of nowhere" being the plot hook tied to your funds, and people think your luck must come from laundering, scams or insider trading. So long as you have dots of money and he has something to grab you by the short hairs with, you'll boh be happy.

If your contentions that you have the merits, they're background why do they keep coming up ugh, I can't help you though.

Thanqol
2012-12-20, 03:20 AM
Theres a degree to which, not specifically in this game as much as in general, dealing with the question of how one earns ones resources is perhaps the thing I am least interested in. A chore to complete in order to continue with other stuff.

In the context of this game, I'll give it some thought, see if I can't figure out something remotely helpful.

I agree with you, logistics and dollar-tracking is dull and that's not what I'm intending the game to be about.

However, a job gives you status, influence, and an area you care about. Buffy the Vampire Slayer went to high school, and plot hooks were fed to her through the high school - classmates, evil teachers, blah blah. She wasn't a full time vampire-hunting murderhobo; she had a vector for plot hooks.

The way I opened this game provided an instant draw and left dozens of plot threads floating in all directions and many incomplete stories and things to follow up on - which I'm very happy with; I learned the mistake I made with Waiting for Rain - but if I want to run a more targeted, personal story about the character and his or her personal goals then I need vectors to do that through.

In addition, having a job isn't punching in 9-to-5 for a Mage. It's an area you can fundamentally reshape as an ongoing social project. Get a job in media and suddenly, when the Seers broadcast their lying PSA on Slade you can shut them down.

If you do still want to play-down the mortal life aspect after hearing all this that's fine. Just wanted to make a case as to why it'd be useful.

Anarion
2012-12-20, 03:30 AM
full time vampire-hunting murderhobo;


Does this job have any openings? It sounds fun.



The way I opened this game provided an instant draw and left dozens of plot threads floating in all directions and many incomplete stories and things to follow up on - which I'm very happy with; I learned the mistake I made with Waiting for Rain - but if I want to run a more targeted, personal story about the character and his or her personal goals then I need vectors to do that through.

In addition, having a job isn't punching in 9-to-5 for a Mage. It's an area you can fundamentally reshape as an ongoing social project. Get a job in media and suddenly, when the Seers broadcast their lying PSA on Slade you can shut them down.


How tied does this need to be with resources? Jack's ability to buy us whatever we want largely rendered my desires for resources on Tessen superfluous. However, she still wants work for a variety of reasons, and will probably mastermind the media takeover (in her head it's just that she wants a platform to say things and actually be heard).

Thanqol
2012-12-20, 03:37 AM
Does this job have any openings? It sounds fun.

Ask Amun!


How tied does this need to be with resources? Jack's ability to buy us whatever we want largely rendered my desires for resources on Tessen superfluous. However, she still wants work for a variety of reasons, and will probably mastermind the media takeover (in her head it's just that she wants a platform to say things and actually be heard).

You can have a high ranking job without having high resources - resources is just your disposable income. For example, Jayden Mavel is a famous artist and probably pulls down millions, but the vast majority of that goes to charity leaving her with resources 3. It's also possible to have a taste for dementedly expensive wine, or be a terrible and habitual gambler, or pay into a pyramid scheme, or be tied down in lawsuits, or have a really really nice apartment that you're struggling to pay off, or have a family and kids running on a tight budget even if they're upper middle class - there's just not much to spare for you.

If you want the power and influence, invest in status. You can have low resources even while having a high salary.

SiuiS
2012-12-20, 04:33 AM
*click*

So a pentacle mage can have resources 1, Status 5 and be a billionaire playboy whose fortune is tie down in socializing and political maneuvers.
A seer Mage can have luxury 2 and be a billionaire playboy whose resources are tie down in socializing and political maneuvers.
A pentacle Mage cannot take luxury, a seer Mage can take resources + status.

So it's that seers are given a hard-coded, unalienable 24 XP bonus in this specific arena that the pentacle or an apostate cannot match? Flank!

Thanqol
2012-12-20, 04:47 AM
*click*

So a pentacle mage can have resources 1, Status 5 and be a billionaire playboy whose fortune is tie down in socializing and political maneuvers.
A seer Mage can have luxury 2 and be a billionaire playboy whose resources are tie down in socializing and political maneuvers.
A pentacle Mage cannot take luxury, a seer Mage can take resources + status.

So it's that seers are given a hard-coded, unalienable 24 XP bonus in this specific arena that the pentacle or an apostate cannot match? Flank!

And you were asking how the Seers of the Throne get recruits. This is how.

Also remember that Luxury 2 is about 4x as good as Resources 5, and Luxury 4 is just 'disgustingly wealthy, seriously, I feel bad knowing that you exist'.

SiuiS
2012-12-20, 05:01 AM
And you were asking how the Seers of the Throne get recruits. This is how.

Also remember that Luxury 2 is about 4x as good as Resources 5, and Luxury 4 is just 'disgustingly wealthy, seriously, I feel bad knowing that you exist'.

Unless you actually want to buy an own things. Although it could be argued that a wizard who buys things is already a sucker.

Still, that's a different spin. "this is a seer perk as part of the game design to give them an edge" is a totally different answer than "that's in the Seers book, sorry". I'm still finding my WoD balance between rule adhesion and winging it.

Although... Hm. Means I'll have to have a wrote up ready for presentation. I think I can do that.


Edit

[Good point; I was just enjoying the mental image of Grandkids glaring at Turing over dinner.]

Hmm...



Actual computer desk + work area;
Working tablet(
Working art program;
Time to practice digital art;
Books on comic design and presentation ;

OR

Comic from Thanqol

...Yep.

Deadly
2012-12-20, 08:58 AM
Ask Amun!

Well, he's got the hobo part taken care of, at least.

SiuiS
2012-12-20, 10:43 AM
Well, he's got the hobo part taken care of, at least.

Having the time arcanum means never having to say you're sorry (for changing your backstory).

Deadly
2012-12-20, 11:05 AM
Having the time arcanum means never having to say you're sorry (for changing your backstory).

Never thought of that ... *sits pondering future Amun rewriting history and what that means for present Amun's philosophy, ego and his chances of success* Sweet merciful Luna, my poor head! :smalleek:

SiuiS
2012-12-20, 12:32 PM
Never thought of that ... *sits pondering future Amun rewriting history and what that means for present Amun's philosophy, ego and his chances of success* Sweet merciful Luna, my poor head! :smalleek:

That's probably why it doesn't happen all that often. Either that or the new timeline overwrites the old.


Also, very Moros quote.


The real issue I have with this is: when you finally hunt that ghost, what are you going to do with it? Eat it? No, you’re not gonna eat the ghost. You’re just hunting down the ghost so you can mess with it. Leave the damn ghost alone. If you believe in them you should also believe in letting them float around naturally, and not bothering them.

Edit again:

This guy is a total downer, and I hope he's purposefully putting on this attitude for his blog because the alternative is a bitter, empty life defined only by decrying everything as stupid so he doesn't have to hurt for not having anything of value. But some of the things there resonate really well with my Mae sense;


The big one finally hit. The power’s out, radio stations aren’t working, the TV only shows static, the air is poisoned, you’re hiding out in your basement. Modern society is over, and you and me are scared ****less. We’ve got to eat, we need clean water, and the silence of the dark shelter is deafening.

But the raver who has properly prepared cracks open one of his 500 emergency glowsticks, pops a couple mystery pills, readies an emergency bottle of water, dons a candy necklace, and begins to dance. The world may be over, but the party has just begun.

Anarion
2012-12-20, 02:12 PM
This guy is a total downer, and I hope he's purposefully putting on this attitude for his blog because the alternative is a bitter, empty life defined only by decrying everything as stupid so he doesn't have to hurt for not having anything of value. But some of the things there resonate really well with my Mae sense;

I don't find that second quote about the raver much of a downer. It's more like welcome to the reality that one aspect of someone's personality doesn't actually define them. Every once in a while people will really, honestly surprise you, even if it takes the end of the world to show it. And that's a good thing (except the end of the world).

the_druid_droid
2012-12-20, 03:09 PM
So long as you have dots of money and he has something to grab you by the short hairs with, you'll boh be happy.

It finally struck me while reading this that this particular euphemism works poorly for those with military-style haircuts.


Hmm...



...Yep.

Ok, I'm too lazy to make the nested quote thingie work, but if you're looking for something on comics, I highly recommend Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics and Making Comics. The second is more practical, the first more general, but interesting reading on the genre. I think kippy will back me up on this, since he was the one who brought the books to my attention in the first place.


Edit again:

This guy is a total downer, and I hope he's purposefully putting on this attitude for his blog because the alternative is a bitter, empty life defined only by decrying everything as stupid so he doesn't have to hurt for not having anything of value. But some of the things there resonate really well with my Mae sense;

Interesting thought. I've been accidentally brushing up with Shamans a lot lately, and this is another interesting thought...

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-20, 06:04 PM
It's actually not that bad. Just relax into it. After hours of agonizing meticulous overanalyzation, we were able to settle on my job being "novelty Caucasian in Japan" and it launched us right into an unfortunately aborted plot that seems awesome in retrospect. You're getting the same now, with your lawyer bit. I think Thanqol would possibly be content with "constant legal battle out of nowhere" being the plot hook tied to your funds, and people think your luck must come from laundering, scams or insider trading. So long as you have dots of money and he has something to grab you by the short hairs with, you'll boh be happy.

If your contentions that you have the merits, they're background why do they keep coming up ugh, I can't help you though.

Definately not the latter.


I agree with you, logistics and dollar-tracking is dull and that's not what I'm intending the game to be about.

However, a job gives you status, influence, and an area you care about. Buffy the Vampire Slayer went to high school, and plot hooks were fed to her through the high school - classmates, evil teachers, blah blah. She wasn't a full time vampire-hunting murderhobo; she had a vector for plot hooks.

The way I opened this game provided an instant draw and left dozens of plot threads floating in all directions and many incomplete stories and things to follow up on - which I'm very happy with; I learned the mistake I made with Waiting for Rain - but if I want to run a more targeted, personal story about the character and his or her personal goals then I need vectors to do that through.

In addition, having a job isn't punching in 9-to-5 for a Mage. It's an area you can fundamentally reshape as an ongoing social project. Get a job in media and suddenly, when the Seers broadcast their lying PSA on Slade you can shut them down.

If you do still want to play-down the mortal life aspect after hearing all this that's fine. Just wanted to make a case as to why it'd be useful.

No no, I pretty much agree, It's more about my general mindset than anything. I just need to manouver myself around to the point where I can get to grips with the whole thing. I do kind of like the idea of Jack focusing on stuff than can help directly regenerate Detroit, inspire fresh and un-sabotaged growth, but we'll have to see. Music is another potentially interesting avenue to pursue, and could overlap with the remains of the Slade-Insurance plan (magical concept album compilation project, ho!) and so on. We'll see. I should also figure out what state my xp is currently in and then spend the stuff, then get my interlude with Johnny Saxophone started. Plan is to do that this same day, especially if we're still earlyish in the day (Zombie Ambush having happened over breakfast and all that).

Guess we'll have to see how the return to the tower and Tessen's urge to do some Urban Exploration go first though. We do have a tendancy to blunder directly into time consuming hijinks. :smallsmile:

Thanqol
2012-12-20, 11:10 PM
Hmm...



...Yep.

Fine. Check the Drawthread.

Anarion
2012-12-20, 11:54 PM
Guess we'll have to see how the return to the tower and Tessen's urge to do some Urban Exploration go first though. We do have a tendancy to blunder directly into time consuming hijinks. :smallsmile:

What you need to understand is that I have a burning OOC desire for hijinks that I keep rationalizing into Tessen's naivete. You people need to restrain her.


Fine. Check the Drawthread.

Do you do everything the Internet tells you?

Thanqol
2012-12-20, 11:59 PM
Do you do everything the Internet tells you?

I often think, "Wow, wouldn't it be cool if someone did that for real?"

And then I realise that I am someone.

Anarion
2012-12-21, 12:08 AM
I often think, "Wow, wouldn't it be cool if someone did that for real?"

And then I realise that I am someone.

Huh. Well, fine then. I'd like an avatar, if you have time. I think my pony deserves a break. Surprise me.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-21, 12:42 AM
Due to events beyond my control, I'm not in the best posting frame of mind today. Hopefully I'll be back on track tomorrow. Sorry for the multiple delays lately.

Anarion
2012-12-21, 12:45 AM
I've got a cross-country flight the day after tomorrow. I think my posting actually goes down when I'm on vacation because about half of my posts are when I'm in the middle of studying, so no rush. Holidays are gonna be nutty anyway.

Thanqol
2012-12-21, 12:59 AM
Huh. Well, fine then. I'd like an avatar, if you have time. I think my pony deserves a break. Surprise me.

Be very careful when you say 'surprise me', because I was this close to getting you a recolour of my current avatar.

Anyway

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6642/day587av.png

Anarion
2012-12-21, 01:16 AM
Be very careful when you say 'surprise me', because I was this close to getting you a recolour of my current avatar.

Anyway

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6642/day587av.png

Heh, I'd totally have used a recolor of your current avatar. I shall take this and do something with it.

Thanqol
2012-12-21, 01:45 AM
Heh, I'd totally have used a recolor of your current avatar. I shall take this and do something with it.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4086/qrecolour.jpg

I learned about hue adjusters! I can get any colour you so desire.

Anarion
2012-12-21, 01:48 AM
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4086/qrecolour.jpg

I learned about hue adjusters! I can get any colour you so desire.

This...is probably going to confuse people.

Thanqol
2012-12-21, 01:49 AM
This...is probably going to confuse people.

That is the Question.

Anarion
2012-12-21, 01:51 AM
That is the Question.

Now do green, yellow, purple, second purple, and orange and get 5 more people and we can do rainbow Question.

Thanqol
2012-12-21, 01:55 AM
Now do green, yellow, purple, second purple, and orange and get 5 more people and we can do rainbow Question.

http://imageshack.us/a/img526/7157/13588208.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img259/7862/22134190.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img12/8656/43053985.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img689/6489/87304834.jpg

(We should also alternate between them at random)

Anarion
2012-12-21, 01:59 AM
(We should also alternate between them at random)

I'm way ahead of you.

Edit: though we should probably steer clear of actually switching off. I think the mods might frown on us pretending to be each other.

Thanqol
2012-12-21, 02:29 AM
I'm way ahead of you.

Edit: though we should probably steer clear of actually switching off. I think the mods might frown on us pretending to be each other.

Why would I want to pretend to be anyone other than me? I'm awesome.

(Anyway, the mods allowed that clone thing and we're significantly more colourful)


Also, Errant's Tragic Backstory. (http://youtu.be/lgGKSjiw0HQ)

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-21, 02:36 AM
Also, Errant's Tragic Backstory. (http://youtu.be/lgGKSjiw0HQ)

Errant was a stray dog (who went from town to town helping folk) that was bitten by a radioactive China Doll?
...not the strangest backstory I've heard, I'll admit.

Also, god, that show and it's theme are so damn sad. The essentially upbeat nature of the music just makes it more depressing somehow.

SiuiS
2012-12-21, 02:42 AM
Drat. Lost my thing.

Anarion: those are the high points. The guy also goes on benders about how retarded and pointless the life of a person who would buy, say, bulk how horns must be. It's the self-despair version of go **** yourself and die in a fire. It makes me sad that he may actually be that upset at life.

Druid Droid: I dd indeed think of that race where we burnt down BronyCon when I read that. Well, that and Flo.

Thanqol: hey! I'm someone! It's all so clear now!
Also I'm expecting a series of links in your draw thread ranging from various amazon.com purchases and ending with a trollface.jpeg

Thanqol
2012-12-21, 02:45 AM
Thanqol: hey! I'm someone! It's all so clear now!
Also I'm expecting a series of links in your draw thread ranging from various amazon.com purchases and ending with a trollface.jpeg

Oh man, I totally should have done that. I can't believe I didn't :smallfrown:

SiuiS
2012-12-21, 05:41 AM
Oh man, I totally should have done that. I can't believe I didn't :smallfrown:

It's okay. Actually pulling off a comic and continuing as if you're not thinking "what have you done lately?" is probably the more poignant victory, if more rarified.

Thanqol
2012-12-21, 10:16 AM
So - Seers of the Throne? (http://youtu.be/fyMoVrZmd5c)

Or Seers of the Throne? (http://youtu.be/ENgZDcU9L3o?t=2m38s)

Secret World has some awesome Mage themes. Could do worse!

Anarion
2012-12-21, 12:10 PM
So - Seers of the Throne? (http://youtu.be/fyMoVrZmd5c)

Or Seers of the Throne? (http://youtu.be/ENgZDcU9L3o?t=2m38s)

Secret World has some awesome Mage themes. Could do worse!

Eh, it's a little overblown. That guy in the second video makes a terrible pitch, saved only by the fact that he doesn't demand an answer on the spot. I mean seriously, most people are conditioned enough to react to that kind of scene with "these are the bad guys" and why would you possibly do that as your pitch?

I don't even think you want a guy walking in on someone like that. You want them to be a little freaked, go looking and stumble into you, then you offer to help out, out of the goodness of your heart.

Thanqol
2012-12-21, 09:26 PM
As of tomorrow I shall be heading north to Australia's only population centre of significance or worth. I will probably have access to internet, but as with all travel I add the disclaimer that posting is not guaranteed between now and after the new year.

Happy holidays, one and all.

Anarion
2012-12-21, 09:28 PM
As of tomorrow I shall be heading north to Australia's only population centre of significance or worth. I will probably have access to internet, but as with all travel I add the disclaimer that posting is not guaranteed between now and after the new year.

Happy holidays, one and all.

Happy Holidays. Try not to get eaten by a kangaroo on the way there or anything.

SiuiS
2012-12-22, 02:56 AM
... Petitioning head of table for eleven day informal Caucus?

Deadly
2012-12-22, 09:04 AM
I'll be gone Monday, of course, but other than that I'm pretty much here the rest of the year. It's a small Christmas for me this year.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-22, 05:16 PM
Hey SiuiS, guess what I found!

Hint: it's pear cider. Delicious!
And so my cider-related taunts continue

Anarion
2012-12-22, 05:58 PM
I finally finished reading Book of Spirits! Thank goodness for long plane flights with nothing else to do.

And it gave me a couple really great ideas. I can't share them with you though :smalltongue: (except Tiki and Deadly, if they want to PM and discuss GMing Mage, feel free).

edit: ah, the avatar madness continues.

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-23, 11:32 PM
Incidentally, if one was trying to figure out if a fellow player was lying to their character, that would call for an opposed roll, manipulation+Subterfuge vs Wits+Subterfuge I'm guessing? Or would it simply be a case of choosing the most likely response and then justifying their train of thought?

I'll pass on bothering with anything of the sort right now, but it'd be interesting to know what the best way to deal with this kind of thing would be, with knowing OOC but trying to guess IC.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-24, 12:27 AM
I feel it's germane to point out that Turing is the only person in the cabal with Life Sight. His, ah, explanation was to an extent chosen with that in mind...

Thanqol
2012-12-24, 03:15 AM
Incidentally, if one was trying to figure out if a fellow player was lying to their character, that would call for an opposed roll, manipulation+Subterfuge vs Wits+Subterfuge I'm guessing? Or would it simply be a case of choosing the most likely response and then justifying their train of thought?

I'll pass on bothering with anything of the sort right now, but it'd be interesting to know what the best way to deal with this kind of thing would be, with knowing OOC but trying to guess IC.

Work it out amongst yourselves. Either a gentleman's agreement to know or not know, or whatever roll is fair between the parties, or 'I think it's more narratively interesting if I know X'. In any course, I prefer to stay out of this kind of thing.

Thanqol
2012-12-24, 07:04 AM
Dresden Files. I actually want to not recommend this because that'd let me steal stuff from it more freely. I managed to talk myself into making this plug only because I've got reams of material for this game already and it might get some of you more interested in the WoD.

I was told to start at book 3, titled Grave Peril on the grounds of the first two being very novice writer-y, which I did. It worked well as a starting place. As a piece of writing alone, it was very good - suspense was maintained and the main characters came across as badasses at the same time as the main threats were built up as terrifying. As a piece of Mage material, the parallels are basically 1:1, and there was some outright ingenious applications of Creative Thaumaturgy. Apparently the line only gets better from there, too, which sounds really promising.

Seal of Approval'd!

Tiki Snakes
2012-12-24, 01:49 PM
Work it out amongst yourselves. Either a gentleman's agreement to know or not know, or whatever roll is fair between the parties, or 'I think it's more narratively interesting if I know X'. In any course, I prefer to stay out of this kind of thing.

Cool, I can work with that. And, as I said, only vaguely relevant at the moment because I already know what Jacks take on and emotional response to the situation is and it doesn't hinge on it at all. Which makes things easier. :smallsmile:

Might post later, depends how much more drink the family talk me into.

Edit - Well, talk me into and/or provide excuse for. It is Christmas after all and talking me into things is never difficult.

the_druid_droid
2012-12-24, 03:32 PM
Just as a general note, Turing probably will try to keep certain Guardian things quiet. I don't OOC mind people trying to determine if he's lying, and an opposed roll involving subterfuge seems reasonable to me. There may also be very important/unimportant things that I would consider just coming to an OOC agreement on, but I don't think Slade's death falls into that category at this point.