Zinc Saucier 10: Now you see me...

[mattie_p]

This competition has closed. Here were the final results!



The Dark Weed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14389319&postcount=24) - Eskil = 17 points

John Cage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14389338&postcount=26) - dspeyer = 16.5 points

Masashi Kishomoto (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14389347&postcount=27) - Motoko's ghost = 16 points

Dare Mo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14389328&postcount=25) - Motoko's ghost = 13.5 points



--------------------------------------------------------------------------



Welcome one and all to the tenth Zinc Saucier challenge, where Playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful) builds.

The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

For the tenth challenge get ready strike from the shadows and post faster than anyone else, from Complete Adventurer, the Ninja!

Our challengers will have about 2 weeks to build a complete build from levels 1-20 using a 32 point buy and all official 3.5 material (excluding dragon magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Ninja without actually using any levels in it.

Entries must be submitted by Sunday, 11:59pm GMT, 16 December, 2012.

Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 5 categories;

* Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
* Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
* Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
* Fluff (How well the characters back-stories and classes mesh)
* Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)

Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

Recommended style:NAME OF ENTRY
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

2nd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
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+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

3rd|New Class Level|
+x|
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4th|New Class Level|
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5th|New Class Level|
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6th|New Class Level|
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7th|New Class Level|
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+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

8th|New Class Level|
+x|
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+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

9th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

10th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

11th|New Class Level|
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+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

12th|New Class Level|
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13th|New Class Level|
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14th|New Class Level|
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15th|New Class Level|
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16th|New Class Level|
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+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

17th|New Class Level|
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+x|
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+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

18th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

19th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

20th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

Copy and Paste:NAME OF ENTRY
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

2nd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

3rd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

4th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

5th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

6th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

7th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

8th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
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+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

9th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

10th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

11th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
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+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

12th|New Class Level|
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+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

13th|New Class Level|
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14th|New Class Level|
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15th|New Class Level|
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16th|New Class Level|
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17th|New Class Level|
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18th|New Class Level|
+x|
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+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

19th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

20th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage). For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list, similar to this:
Spells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

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19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

Copy and Paste:Spells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

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19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.

Sauciers may submit as many builds as they want but please don't use leadership, as we dont want to overfeed the judges.

Entries should be submitted via private message to the chairman.

Previous challenges;
Soulknife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225187)
Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229736)
Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233749)
Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239294)
Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243627)
Warlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247169)
Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252932)
Warblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256004)
Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259654)


A few administrative notes:

This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.

Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. This comes up often enough to bear mention in the rules: Dragon Compendium is allowed.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.

Also it comes with double prize money.

Allez Sauciers!

[toapat]

id like to see a better turn out then the last one, but here is the problem im seeing right off the bat:

Factotum is allowed

[mattie_p]

Specific class is allowed

Could be considered "obvious" if everyone goes that route. I can't ensure better participation, hopefully we'll attract them by pure charm.

Also, please avoid speculation. Thanks

[Aegis013]

I'm pondering trying this again. I need to know before I do though, is Wealth-by-Level included in the build?

[mattie_p]

I think the best builds do not rely upon items, but you can certainly post the suggested items that would enhance your character. If you include something like "must have +5 flaming ghost-touch icy-burst daggers or it won't work," then you might be deducted points in elegance.

[motoko's ghost]

I already have an idea...It's completely ridiculous but I think I'll submit it anyway:smalltongue:

EDIT: Psst Mattie_P, you might want to double check your OP for copy-paste errors

[mattie_p]

Got it, thanks, motoko. Blast, I made sure all the class references were safe, and missed a "ninth"

[Aegis013]

I think the best builds do not rely upon items, but you can certainly post the suggested items that would enhance your character. If you include something like "must have +5 flaming ghost-touch icy-burst daggers or it won't work," then you might be deducted points in elegance.

Second question, is stuff from Unearthed Arcana allowed? I assume it is, since under Elegance it mentions flaws. But I'm guessing points might be lost on elegance for borrowing stuff from there?

[mattie_p]

Depends on what you are looking for. Class variants are legal. Racial variants and paragon classes are legal.

Flaws, bloodlines are frowned upon, and usually warrant a penalty.

No gestalt, alternative skill systems, spell point system, at all.

If you must use a flaw or a bloodline to make a build legal, consider if the potential boost to your power and use of ingredient scores is worth the potential elegance hit.

[Aegis013]

Depends on what you are looking for. Class variants are legal. Racial variants and paragon classes are legal.

Flaws, bloodlines are frowned upon, and usually warrant a penalty.

No gestalt, alternative skill systems, spell point system, at all.

If you must use a flaw or a bloodline to make a build legal, consider if the potential boost to your power and use of ingredient scores is worth the potential elegance hit.

Actually it was the Skill Knowledge feat from page 81. But my build didn't come together right, and I'm not sure if I can come up with a secondary that will be quite as interesting.

[mattie_p]

Well, there is plenty of time left. (Plenty of other ways to boost skills as well, just look around). Hopefully we'll see some more action, other than just you.

[Draz74]

I might actually enter this one; it's a class I've got a few ideas how to duplicate.

Remind me after I've turned in my final project. :smalltongue:

[mattie_p]

So how are the chefs coming? Hopefully finals are going well for those who need to experience those, and hopefully we'll get some good dishes served up in the competition.

[motoko's ghost]

I've got a couple in the works, should have at least 1 done in time

[Thumperganker]

I have an idea, and hope to find the time to lay it out, at least see what people think of it, and also to see how it looks to myself to play.

How does point buy work?

[mattie_p]

Dungeon Master Guide, page 169. It is also available elsewhere on the web, but as it is not open gaming content I won't link it.

[mattie_p]

So heads up. About 24 hours remain before the deadline. If you have an entry, please consider submitting, thread has been kind of dead lately.

[dspeyer]

I wonder if these challenges might work better posting in the thread. Then people could take inspiration from eachother, and the discussion would stay alive. Also, it would solve the "I can't use that, it's too obvious" problem.

[mattie_p]

Its a problem, I admit. We've managed to eke out an existence as a lesser cousin to Iron Chef, using the same rules. I wonder if your suggestion might not have merit. Can we have a discussion on that? Thoughts, if any, by past and current competitors would be appreciated. I'll post the current entries in about an hour.

[IdleMuse]

Ack, I wish I'd seen this one. The problem for me is that with this forum being fairly fast-moving, contest threads tend to fall off the bottom of the first page so easily. I wonder if we could petition the mods for a 'Competitions' subforum of Roleplaying, or something :smallwink:

[toapat]

Its a problem, I admit. We've managed to eke out an existence as a lesser cousin to Iron Chef, using the same rules. I wonder if your suggestion might not have merit. Can we have a discussion on that? Thoughts, if any, by past and current competitors would be appreciated. I'll post the current entries in about an hour.

I Maintained the second oldest thread on WotC's YMtC where we compete over 5 days to make a card to specific criteria.

this is not particularly different, and a single monolythic topic will get more views then many small ones

[The Gilded Duke]

I do actually like the open contest better, there were various older contests that had people discussing and bouncing ideas off each other as it went, and the Homebrew monster competitions actively encouraged discussion. If somebody is worried about someone stealing their ideas, they can always wait until right before the deadline to post.

Also it would get more content out there with all those half finished builds that people have.

[mattie_p]

Alright, I'll consider it for the next round as a test, we'll see if we go with it pending discussion. In the meantime, let me unveil the competitors! We have 4 entries this time. Please refrain from posting until the all clear.

[mattie_p]

A ... bound ninja


The Story of the Growing Weed
Do you know what it is to be unwanted?

Do you know what it is to be unloved?
The orc raider doesn't.
He has the respect of his fellow raiders, and his tribe praise him for the bounties he brings.

Do you know what it is to be turn away?
The old couple doesn't.
When their daughter dies in childbirth, their friends and neighbours takes them in and helps them in their grief.

Do you know what it is to have people wishs to utterly erase you?
The Shadows of the Five Fingers don't.
They conceal themselves from the world, but will kill for those who can contact and pay them.

But Malphas knows what it is to be unloved,
and Andromalius knows what it is to be turned away.
Chupoclos and Marchosias knows of fear and hatred that seeks to end existence.

And Zasso, the Dark Weed, knows what it is to be unwanted.

{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Binder|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Intimidate 4, bluff 4, move silently 2|Improved Binding|Soul binding (1 vestige)

2nd|Binder|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Knowledge (arcana) 2, knowledge (religion) 1|-|Pact augmentation (1 ability), suppress sign

3rd|Binder|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+3|Hide 3|Martial study(Shadow Blade Technique)|—

4th|Binder|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Hide 6, diplomacy 7|Ignore Special Requirements(Binder bonus)|Bonus feat

5th|Binder|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4|Bluff 4, hide 8|—|Pact augmentation (2 abilities)

6th|Binder|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+5|Bluff 5, hide 9|Darkstalker|Soul guardian (immune to fear)

7th|Binder|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+5|Hide 10, intimidate 5|—|-

8th|Binder|
+6/+1|
+6|
+2|
+6|Hide 11, intimidate 6|—|Soul binding (2 vestiges)

9th|Binder|
+6/+1|
+6|
+3|
+6|Hide 12, intimidate 7|Shape Soulmeld(Impulse Boots)|Soul guardian (slippery mind)

10th|Binder|
+7/+2|
+7|
+3|
+7|Hide 13, intimidate 8|—|Pact augmentation (3 abilities)

11th|Binder|
+8/+3|
+7|
+3|
+7|Hide 14, intimidate 9|Expel Vestige (Binder bonus)|Bonus feat

12th|Binder|
+9/+4|
+8|
+3|
+8|Hide 15|Open Least Chakra (Feet)|—

13th|Binder|
+9/+4|
+8|
+3|
+8|Hide 16|-|Soul guardian (immune to energy drain and negative levels)

14th|Binder|
+10/+5|
+9|
+4|
+9|Hide 17|—|Soul binding (3 vestiges)

15th|Binder|
+11/+6/+1|
+9|
+4|
+9|Hide 18|Bonus Essentia|-

16th|Binder|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+4|
+10|Hide 19|-|Pact augmentation (4 abilities)

17th|Binder|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|Hide 20|—|—

18th|Binder|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+5|
+11|Hide 21|Sudden Ability Focus (Binder bonus)|Bonus feat

19th|Binder|
+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+5|
+11|Hide 22|—|Soul guardian (mind blank)

20th|Binder|
+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|Hide 23|—|Pact augmentation (5 abilities), soul binding (4 vestiges)[/table]
Zasso, the Dark Weed in shadow
Desert half-orc Str14 dex10 con12 int12 wis10 cha17

Binding Malphas, Andromalius, Chupoclos and Marchosias grants Zasso all* of a Ninjas abilities and and more.

*Except Evasion, but Impulse Boots take care of that.

[mattie_p]

A spymaster aspiring to be a ninja.




Dare Mo, the Faceless one


http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/274/3/9/slenderman_by_mak3zor-d5gi6mm.jpg
It matters not who you or others say I am and even less who I say I am, I am but the faceless cog in the wheel of life, one of the spoke that allow the wheel of politics to spin.

Many heroes have come and gone,like waves on the beach and like those self-said waves vanish, mighty weapons and magic they wielded and the exploits the stuff of song, but they did not realise true power, the power that a single man can topple an army a thousand miles away with but a single sentence.

I am no-one and nothing, I will never be spoken of or to or seen except out of the corner of an eye already lost in the moment taken to turn, I do not...have not ever existed.

Know of me and despair.



Stats;

Changling rogue5/spymaster7/ninja spy8

STR10 DEX16 CON14 INT14 WIS10 CHA14 base(32 pt buy)
STR10 DEX18 CON14 INT17 WIS10 CHA14 after leveling
STR10 DEX24 CON14 INT23 WIS10 CHA14 after items
STR10 DEX24 CON14 INT24 WIS10 CHA14 after inherant


breakdown by lv;

{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Rogue 1|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0|bluff4,diplomacy4,disguise4,forgery4,gather information4,hide4,listen4,move silently4,sense motive4,spot4,tumble4,UMD4|Darkstalker|SA+1d6,soci al intuition

2nd|Rogue 2|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+0|bluff1,disguise1,diplomacy1,gather information1,hide1,listen1,move silently1,spot1,tumble1,UMD1|-|Evasion

3rd|Rogue 3|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+1|bluff1,disguise1,diplomacy1,hide1,listen1,move silently1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1,UMD1|Skill focus(bluff)|SA+2d6,penetrating strike

4th|Rogue 4|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+1|bluff1,disguise1,diplomacy1,gather information1,hide1,listen1,move silently1,spot1,tumble1,UMD1|-|Uncanny dodge

5th|Rogue 5|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+1|bluff1,disguise1,diplomacy1,hide1,listen1,move silently1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1,UMD1|-|SA+3d6

6th|Spymaster 1|
+3|
+1|
+6|
+1|bluff1,decipher1,diplomacy1,hide1,listen1,move silently1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1,UMD1|Dodge|Cover identity(1st),Undetectable alignment

7th|Spymaster 2|
+4|
+1|
+7|
+1|bluff1,decipher1,diplomacy1,hide1,listen1,move silently1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1,UMD1|-|quick change,scrying defense

8th|Spymaster 3|
+5|
+2|
+7|
+2|bluff1,diplomacy1,disguise1,hide1,jump1,listen1 ,move silently1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1,UMD1|-|magic aura,SA+4d6

9th|Spymaster 4|
+6|
+2|
+8|
+2|bluff1,diplomacy1,disguise1,hide1,jump1,listen1 ,move silently1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1,UMD1|(FEAT HERE)|cover identity(2nd),slippery mind

10th|Spymaster 5|
+6|
+2|
+8|
+2|bluff1,diplomacy1,disguise1,hide1,jump1,listen1 ,move silently1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1,UMD1|-|dispel scrying

11th|Spymaster 6|
+7|
+3|
+9|
+3|bluff1,diplomacy1,disguise1,hide1,jump1,listen1 ,move silently1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1,UMD1|-|SA+5d6

12th|Spymaster 7|
+8|
+3|
+9|
+3|bluff1,diplomacy1,disguise1,hide1,jump1,listen1 ,move silently1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1,UMD1|(FEAT HERE)|cover identity(3rd),deep cover

13th|Ninja spy 1|
+8|
+5|
+11|
+5|balance1,bluff1,diplomacy1,hide1,listen1,move silently1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1|-|exotic weapon(),ki breath,poison use

14th|Ninja spy 2|
+9|
+6|
+12|
+6|appraise0.5,balance1,bluff1,diplomacy1,hide1,li sten1,move silently1,spot1,tumble1|-|slow fall(20ft),improved evasion,SA+6d6

15th|Ninja spy 3|
+10|
+6|
+12|
+6|appraise0.5,balance1,bluff1,diplomacy1,hide1,li sten1,move silently1,spot1,tumble1|(FEAT HERE)|exotic weapon(),acrobatics(+10),leap of the clouds

16th|Ninja spy 4|
+11|
+7|
+13|
+7|balance1,bluff1,diplomacy1,forgery0.5,hide1,lis ten1,move silently1,spot1,tumble1|-|slow fall(30ft),hide in plain sight

17th|Ninja spy 5|
+11|
+7|
+13|
+7|balance1,bluff1,diplomacy1,forgery0.5,hide1,lis ten1,move silently1,spot1,tumble1|-|water walk,SA+7d6

18th|Ninja spy 6|
+12|
+8|
+14|
+8|balance1,bluff1,diplomacy1,hide1,knowledge(loca l)0.5,listen1,move silently1,spot1,tumble1|(FEAT HERE)|exotic weapon(),slow fall(50ft)

19th|Ninja spy 7|
+13|
+8|
+14|
+8|balance1,bluff1,diplomacy1,hide1,knowledge(loca l)0.5,listen1,move silently1,spot1,tumble1|-|thousand faces,acrobatics(+20)

20th|Ninja spy 8|
+14|
+9|
+15|
+9|balance1,bluff1,diplomacy1,hide1,listen1,move silently1,spot1,tumble1 plus the second impression skill trick|-|poison immunity,SA+8d6
[/table]



items;

*+5 assassination adamantine dagger
*ring of invisibility
*belt of many pockets(this is filled with all the various tools and props needed for their various guises)
*gloves of +6 dex
*headband of +6 int
*tome of +1int



This build is an attempt to recreate a traditional shinobi warrior; a faceless stealthy spymaster with training in assassination

thanks to the various ability you are immune to divination, in fact you can display false information and they're none the wiser thanks to the spymaster's deep cover ability. You are also virtually immune to physical detection between darkstalker,HiPS&your skills(disguise alone should end up with a +30-40 something modifier)

there is quite abit of overlap in your abilitis, however most of them go about it in slightly different ways(changling's disguise self vs the ninja spy's alter self)

*d6HD
*medium BAB
*good reflex
*evasion
*impossible to find through divination
*lots of skill points
*SA+9d6+20(~14d6),capable of partially bypassing SA-immunity
*poison use(DCs of poisons get +5 from dagger's ability)
*this builds version of acrobatics blows the regular ninja's out of the water

Most of the other ninja's abilities weren't replicated either because they weren't really needed or because they could be easily replicated through items





CAdv;Spymaster
cityscape web enchancement;assassination weapon ability
OA;ninja spy
RoE;changling rogue ACF

[mattie_p]

A performance of silence:


John Cage

The build
Human
Str: 10, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 16, Wis: 8, Cha: 16 (bonuses in cha)
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features|Casting
1st|rogue|0|0|2|0|balance:4 bluff:4 climb:4 concentration:2 disguise:4 hide:4 knowledge(local):4 listen:4 move silently:4 perform(absence of music):4 search:4 spot:4 tumble:4|Able Learner, Martial Study (Clinging Shadow Strike)|trapfinding, sneak attack 1d6|-
2nd|sorcerer|1|0|3|2|balance:4 bluff:4 climb:4 concentration:4 disguise:4 hide:4 knowledge(local):4 listen:5 move silently:4 perform(absence of music):5 search:5 spot:5 tumble:4||metamagic specialist|1
3rd|sorcerer|1|1|3|3|balance:4 bluff:4 climb:4 concentration:6 disguise:4 hide:4 knowledge(local):4 listen:6 move silently:4 perform(absence of music):6 search:6 spot:6 tumble:4|Weapon Finesse||2
4th|sorcerer|2|1|4|3|balance:4 bluff:5 climb:4 concentration:7 disguise:4 hide:4 knowledge(local):4 listen:7 move silently:4 perform(absence of music):7 search:7 spot:7 tumble:4|||3
5th|rogue|3|1|4|3|balance:5 bluff:6 climb:5 concentration:8 disguise:4 hide:6 knowledge(local):4 listen:8 move silently:6 perform(absence of music):8 search:8 spot:8 tumble:5||evasion|
6th|prestige bard|3|2|5|4|balance:5 bluff:7 climb:5 concentration:9 disguise:4 hide:8 knowledge(local):4 listen:9 move silently:8 perform(absence of music):9 search:9 spot:9 tumble:5|EWP (spiked chain)|bardic knowledge, bardic music|
7th|prestige bard|4|2|5|4|balance:5 bluff:8 climb:5 concentration:10 disguise:4 hide:9 knowledge(local):4 listen:10 move silently:9 perform(absence of music):10 search:10 spot:10 tumble:5|||4
8th|prestige bard|5|2|6|5|balance:5 bluff:9 climb:5 concentration:11 disguise:4 hide:11 knowledge(local):4 listen:11 move silently:11 perform(absence of music):11 search:11 spot:11 tumble:5||inspire competence|
9th|prestige bard|6|3|6|5|balance:5 bluff:10 climb:5 concentration:12 disguise:5 hide:12 knowledge(local):5 listen:12 move silently:12 perform(absence of music):11 search:12 spot:12 tumble:5|Power Attack||5
10th|prestige bard|6|3|7|6|balance:5.5 bluff:13 climb:5.5 concentration:13 disguise:5 hide:13 knowledge(local):5 listen:13 move silently:13 perform(absence of music):11 search:13 spot:13 tumble:5.5||inspire courage +2|6
11th|virtuoso|7|3|7|6|balance:7 bluff:14 climb:7 concentration:14 disguise:5 hide:14 knowledge(local):5 listen:14 move silently:14 perform(absence of music):11 search:14 spot:14 tumble:7||persuasive song|
12th|virtuoso|7|4|7|7|balance:8 bluff:15 climb:8 concentration:15 disguise:5 hide:15 knowledge(local):5 listen:15 move silently:15 perform(absence of music):12 search:15 spot:15 tumble:8|Martial Stance (Assasin's Stance)||7
13th|virtuoso|8|4|8|7|balance:9 bluff:16 climb:9 concentration:16 disguise:5 hide:16 knowledge(local):5 listen:16 move silently:16 perform(absence of music):13 search:16 spot:16 tumble:9||sustaining song|8
14th|virtuoso|8|4|8|8|balance:10 bluff:17 climb:10 concentration:17 disguise:5 hide:17 knowledge(local):5 listen:17 move silently:17 perform(absence of music):14 search:17 spot:17 tumble:10|||9
15th|virtuoso|9|5|8|8|balance:11 bluff:18 climb:11 concentration:18 disguise:5 hide:18 knowledge(local):5 listen:18 move silently:18 perform(absence of music):15 search:18 spot:18 tumble:11|Shadow Blade|jarring song|10
16th|virtuoso|9|5|9|9|balance:12 bluff:19 climb:12 concentration:19 disguise:5 hide:19 knowledge(local):5 listen:19 move silently:19 perform(absence of music):16 search:19 spot:19 tumble:12|||11
17th|virtuoso|10|5|9|9|balance:13 bluff:20 climb:13 concentration:20 disguise:5 hide:20 knowledge(local):5 listen:20 move silently:20 perform(absence of music):17 search:20 spot:20 tumble:13||song of fury|12
18th|virtuoso|10|6|9|10|balance:14 bluff:21 climb:14 concentration:21 disguise:5 hide:21 knowledge(local):5 listen:21 move silently:21 perform(absence of music):18 search:21 spot:21 tumble:14|Silent Spell||13
19th|virtuoso|11|6|10|10|balance:15 bluff:22 climb:15 concentration:22 disguise:5 hide:22 knowledge(local):5 listen:22 move silently:22 perform(absence of music):19 search:22 spot:22 tumble:15||mindbending melody|14
20th|virtuoso|11|6|10|11|balance:16 bluff:23 climb:16 concentration:23 disguise:5 hide:23 knowledge(local):5 listen:23 move silently:23 perform(absence of music):20 search:23 spot:23 tumble:16||revealing melody|15[/table]

Some people don't think "absence of music" is something you can perform, but that's why he's John Cage.


The Character
What John Cage wanted was to be a highly-respected, ground-breakingly innovative musician. Unfortunately, no one respected him. After he was expelled from his third bardic collegium for failure to learn from his teachers, his parents stopped paying tuition. He was forced to take up petty crime as a day job. All great musicians had day jobs early in their careers, right?

When his sorcerer powers activated (a surprise to him), he began to experiment with combining nonmusic with magic (and with the allegedly powerful nonmagic, but he couldn't quite get that to work). The effects were powerful, and he upgraded his day job from petty crime to assassination. It payed a lot better. It's still just a day job, though. He'll quit as soon as ticket sales to his concerts pick up.


How he's a ninja:
{table=head]ninja's get|John Cage has
AC bonus|no wis bonus anyway
Ki will saves|good base will saves
Sudden Strike|3d6 sneak attack. Also, when striking from ambush, John casts True Strike and then power attacks fully.
Trapfinding|Trapfinding
Ghost Step|Greater Invisibility
Poison Use|Mage Hand, to apply the poison using from a safe distance
Great Leap|Fly
Acrobatics|Cat's Grace
Ki Dodge|Blur
Speed Climb|Spider Climb
Ghost Strike|Magic Missile
Evasion|Evasion
Ghost Mind|
Ghost Sight|Revealing Melody
Ghost Walk|Ethereal Jaunt[/table]

While not specific class features, Ninjas are expected to be masters of deception, and Alter Self and Glibness fit very well for that. And we haven't even examined the possibilities of polymorphing into an inconspicuous animal with useful movement modes.

Ninjas are also expected to be deadly. This build may not look like much in melee, but stick Bite of the Werebear onto it and things start happening. Or lead with Disintegrate. Either way.

[mattie_p]

Kiss my moto? What did you say ... (gak!)




Masashi Kishomoto


Ninja backstory

http://www.capsulecomputers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Naruto-Shippuden-Ultimate-Ninja-Storm-3-10.jpg

This picture should be fairly self-explanatory about who I am and what I do.

If not don't worry, it'll be covered in a flashback soon enough:smalltongue:


Ninja-info card

Human rogue3/wizard4/unseen seer8/abjurant champion5
ACFs;Penetrating strike rogue, Fighter bonus feat Wizard

STR8 DEX16 CON14 INT18 WIS8 CHA8 original stats(32 pt buy)
STR8 DEX16 CON14 INT23 WIS8 CHA8 after leveling
STR8 DEX22 CON20 INT29 WIS8 CHA8 after items
STR8 DEX22 CON20 INT34 WIS8 CHA8 after inherant



{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Rogue 1|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0|bluff4,disguise4,gather information4,hide4,jump4,listen4,move silently4,search4,sense motive4,spot4,tumble4|Darkstalker(human bonus),weapon finesse|SA+1d6,trapfinding

2nd|Rogue 2|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+0|bluff1,disguise1,gather information1,hide1,jump1,listen1,move silently1,search1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1|-|Evasion

3rd|Rogue 3|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+1|bluff1,disguise1,gather information1,hide1,jump1,listen1,move silently1,search1,sense motive1,spot1,tumble1|Insightful reflexes|SA+2d6, Penetrating strike

4th|Wizard 1|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|concentration1,hide0.5,know(arcana)1,search0.5, spellcraft1,spot0.5|improved initative(wizard bonus)|summon familiar(raven contract summon)

5th|Wizard 2|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+4|concentration1,hide0.5,know(arcana)1,search0.5, spellcraft1,spot0.5|-|-

6th|Wizard 3|
+3|
+2|
+4|
+4|concentration1,hide0.5,know(arcana)1,search0.5, spellcraft1,spot0.5|extend spell|-

7th|Wizard 4|
+4|
+2|
+4|
+5|concentration1,hide0.5,know(arcana)1,search0.5, spellcraft1,spot0.5|-|-

8th|Unseen seer 1|
+4|
+2|
+4|
+7|bluff1,concentration1,disguise1,hide1,know(arca na)1,listen1,move silently1,search1,sense motive1,spellcraft1,spot1|-|SA+3d6

9th|Unseen seer 2|
+5|
+2|
+4|
+8|bluff1,concentration1,disguise1,hide1,know(arca na)1,listen1,move silently1,search1,sense motive1,spellcraft1,spot1|Practised spellcaster,Silent spell(unseen seer bonus)|Advanced learning(Hunter's eye)

10th|Unseen seer 3|
+6|
+3|
+5|
+8|bluff1,concentration1,disguise1,hide1,know(arca na)1,listen1,move silently1,search1,sense motive1,spellcraft1,spot1|-|Divination spell power +1

11th|Unseen seer 4|
+7|
+3|
+5|
+9|bluff1,concentration1,disguise1,hide1,know(arca na)1,listen1,move silently1,search1,sense motive1,spellcraft1,spot1|-|SA+4d6

12th|Unseen seer 5|
+7|
+3|
+5|
+9|bluff1,concentration1,disguise1,hide1,know(arca na)1,listen1,move silently1,search1,sense motive1,spellcraft1,spot1|spell penetration|Advanced learning(know opponent), Guarded mind

13th|Unseen seer 6|
+8|
+4|
+6|
+10|bluff1,concentration1,disguise1,hide1,know(arc ana)1,listen1,move silently1,search1,sense motive1,spellcraft1,spot1|-|Divination spell power +2

14th|Unseen seer 7|
+9|
+4|
+6|
+10|bluff1,concentration1,disguise1,hide1,know(arc ana)1,listen1,move silently1,search1,sense motive1,spellcraft1,spot1|-|SA+5d6

15th|Unseen seer 8|
+10|
+4|
+6|
+11|bluff1,concentration1,disguise1,hide1,know(arc ana)1,listen1,move silently1,search1,sense motive1,spellcraft1,spot1|Combat casting|Advanced learning(g.scrying)

16th|Abjurant champion 1|
+11|
+4|
+6|
+13|concentration1,hide0.5,jump1,know(arcana)1,lis ten0.5,move silently0.5,spellcraft1,spot0.5|-|Abjurant armor, Extended abjuration

17th|Abjurant champion 2|
+12|
+4|
+6|
+14|concentration1,hide0.5,jump1,know(arcana)1,lis ten0.5,move silently0.5,spellcraft1,spot0.5|-|Swift abjuration(1st)

18th|Abjurant champion 3|
+13|
+5|
+7|
+14|concentration1,hide0.5,jump1,know(arcana)1,lis ten0.5,move silently0.5,spellcraft1,spot0.5|Persistant spell|Swift abjuration(1st-2nd)

19th|Abjurant champion 4|
+14|
+5|
+7|
+15|concentration1,hide0.5,jump1,know(arcana)1,lis ten0.5,move silently0.5,spellcraft1,spot0.5|-|Arcane boost

20th|Abjurant champion 5|
+15|
+5|
+7|
+15|bluff0.5,concentration1,hide0.5,jump1,know(arc ana)1,listen0.5,move silently0.5,spellcraft1,spot0.5,tumble0.5|-|Martial arcanist, Swift abjuration(1st-3rd)[/table]



Spells per day

Includes bonuses from high Int
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|4|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|4|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|4|4|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|4|5|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|4|5|4|3|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|4|6|4|3|2|-|-|-|-|-

11th|4|6|4|4|3|-|-|-|-|-

12th|4|6|5|4|3|2|-|-|-|-

13th|4|6|5|4|4|3|-|-|-|-

14th|4|6|5|5|4|3|1|-|-|-

15th|4|6|5|5|4|4|2|-|-|-

16th|4|6|6|5|5|4|3|1|-|-

17th|4|6|6|5|5|4|4|2|-|-

18th|4|6|6|5|5|5|4|2|1|-

19th|4|6|6|5|5|5|4|3|2|-

20th|4|7|6|6|6|6|5|4|3|2[/table]



Jutsu(spells) known;

0-dancing lights,detect magic**,detect poison**,ghost sound,prestidigitation,read magic**
1-endure elements, jump, mage armor, ray of enfeeblement, shield*
2-arcane turmoil*, Kokuangyo no Jutsu(darkness), hunter's eye**, bushin(mirror image), see invisibility**, spider climb
3-anticipate teleportation*, blur, Katon: Gōkakyū no Jutsu(fireball), chakra sensor(know opponent)**, Kirin(lightning bolt)
4-shushin(dimension door), chakra chains(evard's black tentacles), greater invisibility
5-Dokugiri(cloudkill), Katon: Hōsenka no Jutsu(firebrand), Izanagi(g.blink), Doton: Doryūheki(wall of stone)
6-disintigrate, g.dispel magic*, Tōmegane no Jutsu(g.scrying)**
7-shrine seal(banishment), Izanagi(ethereal jaunt), Hirashin(g.teleport)
8-ameratsu(blackfire), mind blank*, persisted hunter's eye**
9-Gentōshin no Jutsu(astral projection), kamui(imprisonment)*
*=abjuration(extended&possibly quickened depending on lv),**=divination(+2 CL)


Ninja tools;

*belt of con+6
*gloves of dex+6
*headband of intellect+6
*tome of intellect+5

anything that increases spellcasting or sneakyness would probably help,but they're not as necessary as those ones



I will be brutally honest and say that this is mostly just an attempt to make a Naruto-themed ninja, however it does replicate the D&D ninja is several ways

*HD average out to d6
*medium BAB
*although the higher will save is good, your reflex is now bad, hopefully evasion and insightful reflexes can fix that
*SA is similar to and better than sudden strike
*SA is only 1/2 normal,but hunter's eye is capable of granting up to 7 additional d6s
*trapfinding,evasion
*mage armour&shield coupled with the AC's bonuses to the spell's AC does give a substantial boost to AC(+13 total at lv20)
*ethereal jaunt and g.invisibility cover ghost step and ghost walk
*jump isn't as versatile as acrobatics and great leap but the bonus is much larger
*g.blink covers ki dodge
*spider climb for speed climbing,see invisibility for ghost sight
*the unseen seer's guarded mind is the same as ghost mind, and if need be can be further enhanced with mind blank

finally you have a character that is capable of stealthy sneaking up on someone and assassinating them...or screaming out their attacks as they shoot fireballs out their eyes and lightning out their rear.



PHB2-hunter's eye
CMage-abjurant champion,arcane turmoil,unseen seer
Dungeonscape-penetrating strike ACF
UA-fighter bonus feat ACF
SC-anticipate teleportation,blackfire


Believe it!

[mattie_p]

If I inadvertently passed on some information revealing our competitors, please let me know. Otherwise, let the judging begin! Oh, also, if you want to judge, please feel free.

[dspeyer]

I'm very amused to see that no factota or swordsages actually got submitted.

[mattie_p]

I'm very amused to see that no factota or swordsages actually got submitted.

That is always the conundrum in these competitions. It seems obvious, or so everyone thinks, and therefore no one submits.

[The Gilded Duke]

My build that wasn't quite coming together was a Lurk / Psion Uncarnate who did the whole becoming incorporeal thing, as opposed to becoming ethereal. It was looking great until I realized that Uncarnate got Telekinetic maneuver at will instead of telekinetic thrust. No 15 ninja stars a turn.

And sure, let me see about judging.

[Draz74]

Personally, what stopped me from entering this time was mostly a little thing called "Finals Week." Ugh. But then, in general I don't have time to do a lot of D&D character-building these days. Sigh.

My idea for this round was to use Umbral Disciple as the key ingredient, on the base of an Incarnate dip. Then I was torn what else to fill in with -- Swordsage (too obvious???), Psychic Rogue (leading to Soul Manifester?), Monk ... so many options.

This competition might just be too specific a niche to ever get a huge following, but I'd love to be proven wrong. Open contests do have their disadvantages, but Duke of URL's old Gestalt Challenges used that format, and it was a lot of fun.

[The Gilded Duke]

The Dark Weed

Innovation: Binder, should be pretty standard but hasn't been used as much. Shadow Hand + Marchosias buff is nice.

Power: 6d6 Sneak Attack, 6d6 Sudden Strike, Pounce, at will etherealness, Higher hide check then most sneakers, less move silently
Death Attack, invisibility. Weak on non hide skills. No attacking from Ethereal. No movement sklls, although you can turn into mist

Elegance: Shadow Hand + Marchosias is nice, as is the covering with impulse boots. Why Desert Half-Orc?

Fluff: Seemed a little light, didn't explain the character much.
Ingredient: Has most of the ninja combat abilities, but doesn't have their skills. Why not at least cross class move silently? Why no spot?

Innovation: 4
Power: 4
Elegance: 3.5
Fluff: 2.5
Ingredient: 3
-------------
17


Dare Mo

Innovation: The social spy angle with Spymaster and Changeling was nice. Ninja spy however is basically just Ninja the Prestige Class.

Power: The additional social stealth abilities are nice, however it also loses the ninjas ethereal tricks. Might have been about the same as an out of the book Ninja, but you failed to include feats.

Elegance: Everything flows together fine, although again Ninja Spy seemed an easy way out.

Fluff: At first seems like you were praising the rulers, but then end with praising yourself, also the whole slenderman image didn't seem
to match your theme.

Ingredient:Basic Ninja with some improved social abilities that help with assassination.

Innovation: 1.5
Power: 2.5
Elegance:3
Fluff: 2.5
Ingredient: 4
-------------
13.5

----------------
John Cage

Innovation: Sorcerer + Prestige Bard isn't one I was expecting, but does work pretty well. I like the idea of performing non-music.

Power: Fifteenth level sorcerer spellcasting is strong, maybe not the right kind of strong, but still strong. Even stronger yet with maxed out spot and Hide and Move Silently. You basically have all of the Ninjas skills,
however magic missile is no replacement for Ghost Strike. Ways to attack Ethereal creatures are relatively common. Ways for ethereal creatures to attack back are not. Power Attacking / True Strike from ambush might have worked, but you really could have used some way to quicken that true strike, or some other way to use it in battle.

Elegance: Can't take martial study at first level (initiator level is 1/2). Your stealthy bard could have really used Subsonics.

Fluff: I like the idea of the unbard over all, would have liked more though.

Ingredient: I'm kinda mixed on this one, it is a good stealth mage build, but I'm not convinced that its a good stealth melee build, that said,
you did handle the skill angle.

Innovation: 4
Power: 3.5
Elegance: 2
Fluff: 3.5
Ingredient: 3.5
---------------
16.5

---------------
Masashi Kishomoto
Innovation: Although Unseen Seer was expected, I didn't see Abjurant Champion coming, and you made it all fit together well.

Power: You have power. 9th level sorcerer spells, with 13d6 sneak attack, and you use those spells to emulate many of the ninja abilities. Your skills suffer a bit, a good 5 less hide then a real ninja, and even worse spot and move silently, but enough to still beat those who aren't dedicated to finding you. Astral Projection does even manage to beat out Ghost Strike in my eyes.

Elegance: Cant take Weapon Finesse with 0 BAB.

Fluff: Not really a Naruto person so the context was lost on me. Even with that, it wasn't really a story but a picture and a line.

Ingredient: Has more supernatural abilities, and has the melee option, but not as good on the skills.

Innovation: 4
Power: 4.5
Elegance: 2
Fluff: 1
Ingredient: 3.5
----------------
16

[motoko's ghost]

I love the John Cage reference:smallbiggrin:

[mattie_p]

So, we have one judge who has made an appearance, any more who care to throw their hat in the ring? Also, any more thoughts on open competition? I'm willing to try it out for a round or two to see if we get more entries.

[The Gilded Duke]

Id be all for moving on to a new contest and having it open, bumps from build discussion should get some interest going, and it will be neat to see the other builds as they develop. Have you already figured out the next ingredient?

[mattie_p]

Actually I have not. In addition to not having the ingredient isolated, I also need to rewrite the rules. Any suggestions for the ingredient are welcome, I should have a new post this evening.

[The Gilded Duke]

What about druid? I don't think we have done a nature tied class before, and it has some pretty powerful, and somewhat unique abilities.

[mattie_p]

Druid could be interesting. I've got some other base classes rolling around in my brain. I think after a couple of prestige classes (Assassin, Pyrokineticist) we'll be better off sticking with base classes, as they have more to work with, in my opinion.

Another idea I've been mulling is choosing a high-CR creature from a monster manual, and trying to replicate that. (For the purposes of that competition, should we go that route, we'll have to assume that the creature does not exist and therefore polymorph/wildshape/shapechange won't work). But I think we'll just experiment with the new format for now, rather than change too much at once.

[Thumperganker]

Due to some RL stuff i wasn't able to get a full working lay out of the idea i had for this but after talking with matt i figured i'd at least through the idea out there for anyone. The concept being that of ninja but not, i went first to Marulurk, a race from Sandstorm.

+2 Str +6 Dex +4 Con +6 Wis +4 Cha
Small size
20 ft speed
3 Monstrous Humanoid RHD
+2 natural armor
Bonus Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
Sneak Attack +2d6, Death Attack, Nauseating Breath, Poison Use
Darkvision 60 ft
+4 racial to Hide/Move Silently (that's +8 total to hide cause of small)
Marruspawn Traits:
Discriminating Hearing
Resistance to Dessication
Resist Fire 5
Low-Light Vision
Favored Class: Rogue
LA +1

That takes the first 4 levels off the get go. Though a nice starting package as far as Ninja like goes. From there i go into monk and rogue, taking a feat Ascetic Rogue, that allows my levels to stack for unarmed dmg, and increase dc for stunning fist by 2. I figure on a combination of monk and rogue levels all the way to 20, You have someone who is small and stealthy, poison use on shruiken, rapid shot, to take someone out with the poison (force more fort saves) No armour, but between the boost to dex and wis, still having a very nice ac. Plus they can smack you silly. I know it may not be the most optimized of characters, but i figure as far as flavour goes it works well, and its not that its going to end up with the short end of the stick either. At least this is my thoughts. like i said i haven't had time to work out all the math, feats, etc on it.

[mattie_p]

So time to post the results:

The Dark Weed - Eskil = 17 points

John Cage - dspeyer = 16.5 points

Masashi Kishomoto - Motoko's ghost = 16 points

Dare Mo - Motoko's ghost = 13.5 points

Congratulations to all competitors, and thanks to Gilded Duke for judging!

New Competition is up! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265347)

[motoko's ghost]

I think this could actually be a pretty good idea, also I would definitely have fun making a blue-mage style faux-monster, I just wish I could have had more time this round.

Also:


HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

And a merry New Year!


EDIT:huh,didn't see that last post