Swiftblade gish how do I get started

[Seer_of_Heart]

I wish to make a full swiftblade gish build that I can use in case my character dies or I have to make a new one if my Dm asks since we have full casters as 3/4 of our party. Trying to make a gish I am really puzzled since I can't figure out how to combine a casting class and a melee class. I would prefer to take the full or most of the swiftblade class as it fits with the flavor I am intending for this build. So can I get general advice on building a gish character, and some more specific advice on the swiftblade class please.

Also are there any cheesy ways to get me time stop even if I take the full swiftblade progression and lose 4 caster levels because of it, because time control really fits my character concept.

[eggs]

You might want to start with this guide. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=333.0) (The one thing I'd point out is that despite that guide's enthusiasm for Battle Sorcerer, it becomes a pretty blatantly poor choice once you get a few levels into Swiftblade - and I say that as someone who's relatively positive about certain Battle Sorcerer gishes.)

On Time Stop access, you could jump through some hoops or exploit some haphazard phrasings, or just buy a staff. I'd do the latter.

[Seer_of_Heart]

Sorry can you answer my questions, you're saying a staff can be used even though my caster level would be lower than the minimum for the staff. Was my thought that you had to be equal or a higher caster level than the staff mistaken? Also, do you think that a wizard entry or a sorcerer entry would be more powerful?

[Snowbluff]

As the resident swiftard Swiftblade expert, I would say the best entry is Wizard6 (Feats traded out for fighter bonus feats ,as per the UA ACF). You don't really need to combine classes if you don't want to. If you aren't too fond of your CL, however, may I suggested picking up Lion Spirit Barbarian for pounce?

Swasbuckler is also good for Wizard Gish for Int to damage. Or Carmedine monk for Int to AC.

[Andion Isurand]

Personally, I would go combat wizard variant (bonus feats from fighter list), so you can snag Dodge and Mobility using those bonus feats.

Edit: I second the post above.

[eggs]

Sorry can you answer my questions, you're saying a staff can be used even though my caster level would be lower than the minimum for the staff. Was my thought that you had to be equal or a higher caster level than the staff mistaken? Also, do you think that a wizard entry or a sorcerer entry would be more powerful?
You can automatically use a staff if your CL is equal to or higher than the minimum CL of the item; if your CL is lower, you need to roll. But most swiftblades with Practiced Spellcaster aren't at a CL disadvantage compared to straightclassed casters, even though their spell progressions lag.

Like most cases, Wizard has more versatility, faster spellcasting advancement, better class features and metamagic makes its spellcasting mechanic better. Sorcerer can have an advantage in certain situations where a build needs to spew lots of spells fast at high levels, but for most purposes, Wizards blows it out of the water.

[Randomguy]

Try Wizard 5/Swiftblade 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Swiftblade 6/Wizard 1.
It gets you 4 attacks per round and 9th level spells.

I think sorcerer is a bit weaker, mainly for the same reason that sorcerer is weaker then wizard in general.

Wu jen might be a fun option. In general it's also weaker then wizard, but you get Body outside Body and Giant Size at higher level, which is great.

[Hirax]

If you can convince your DM to allow the fractional BAB stacking variant, wizard5/mindbender1/swiftblade9/ab champ5 is good. The 1 level of mindbender can be replaced with pretty much anything, as anything that grants CL progression will probably beat the 6th level of wizard, which grants nothing.

[Snowbluff]

Try Wizard 5/Swiftblade 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Swiftblade 6/Wizard 1.
It gets you 4 attacks per round and 9th level spells.


I would finish Swiftblade first. It's class features are far more powerful, and Abj Champs class features are largely redundant in this build, assuming Arcane Strike.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I am not sure if this trick would work; but as a wizard nothing prevents you from adding a spell to your spellbook even if you can't cast it yet (you need to buy a scroll since your level up spell are limited to spell levels you can cast) and , then you take the Spontaneous Divination ACF (trade your 5th level bonus feat for the ability to cast any divination spell you know spontaneously) and finally you take Versatile spellcaster (spend two spell slots of level n-1 to cast any spell you you know of level n). Now theoretically since you know Time stop you can spend two level 8 spells to cast it (or use them to cast haste as a level 9 spell and get a sure 4 round time stop effect). Really cheesy and depends a lot on your Dms permission; but you loose nothing if you ask.

[Seer_of_Heart]

I'm pretty sure that we are using fractional bab, and if my dm was not planning on it well I put some points into diplomacy ;p

[herrhauptmann]

Try Wizard 5/Swiftblade 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Swiftblade 6/Wizard 1.
It gets you 4 attacks per round and 9th level spells.


Taking those classes in that order?
Swiftblade requires 3 bab. So you need wizard 6 to get in.

Spellsword as a full PrC is pretty weak, but the first level is useful. +1 bab, and +1 casting? Yes please.

[Randomguy]

Taking those classes in that order?
Swiftblade requires 3 bab. So you need wizard 6 to get in.


Oops. :smallredface: