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Zelkon
2012-12-03, 09:27 PM
I made a fighter fix. Thanks to a bunch of fighter fixers whom I stole from. It's a bunch of little fixes put together, which is why I call it patchwork. I only have three out of six favored abilities done. I need some input on the other three mental ones. Well, here it is. It's probably a mess, but it seems to work correctly.

Experienced Fighter: The fighter uses his experience to improve his combat skills adding moves and tricks he learned on the battlefield. Starting at 3rd level every feat that provides bonus to attack, bonus to damage or bonus to AC to the fighter improves by +1 at level 3 and another +1 every four levels thereafter to a maximum of an extra +5 at level 19.
Fighters prepare their bonus feats daily, as if they were a wizard. They know all bonus feats available to them.
All fighters gain Power Attack as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Battle Hardened: For the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for any feat on the list of fighter bonus feats, treat each of the fighter's ability scores as being 2 points higher than its actual value.
Fighters gain all benefits of the Dungeoncrasher variant in addition to any features gained at levels 2 and 6.
Fighters have 4 skill points per level, and add Balance, Escape Artist, Profession, Spot, and Tumble, and Spot/Listen/Perception to their list, as well as all skills keying off their favored ability.
Fighters have d12 Hit Dice.
Favored Ability: At first level, a fighter gains a favored ability score. They gain a +2 bonus to that score, the Weapon Finesse feat for said ability, and various benefits tied to that ability as they level. A fighter’s favored ability changes how they are played. Some bonus feats may be tied to Favored Ability.
Strength:
Strength fighters gain +1d6 to all melee damage rolls at level 1. This bonus increases by 1d6 at 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th to a total of +7d6 on all melee damage rolls.
Feat of strength: At 3rd level, the Fighter may damage objects as if he had scored and confirmed a critical hit without rolling. At 5th level, the fighter may break any wooden objects of up to twice his size as a full round action.
Nova Strike: At 3rd level, the fighter gains the ability to put all his energy into one strike to wipe out an enemy. You may choose to take any amount of d6s in ability damage to any ability and gain twice that many d8s for the damage of your next attack. This ability damage is regained overnight. At 9th level, the ability damage decreases to d4s. At 11th, you gain d10s instead of d8s per die of ability damage. At level 13, you get d12s instead of d10s. If any ability score is reduced to below three by this ability, it does not function until all ability scores are above three.
Wound: At 7th level, the fighter may wound his target. Whenever he succeeds on an attack roll, he may apply 1 strength, dexterity, or constitution damage. This increases to 1d6 strength, dexterity, or constitution damage at level 13, and 2d6 strength, dexterity, or constitution damage at level 17. A creature may only be affected by this once/round.
Decapitate: At 15th level, a fighter gains the ability to decapitate his foe a number of times per day equal to his strength modifier. When a fighter scores a critical hit, the target must succeed on a DC 25 fortitude save or die.
Mountain Breaker: at 20th level, a fighter gains a +100 to any attempt to break an object as long as they are using a weapon. They can break any object of any size. By this point, they are well beyond human standards, and therefore can break most anything.

Constitution
Constitution fighters gain Toughness as a bonus feat every level, and damage reduction as a barbarian of his level (not including the powerup to barbarian DR presented in these houserules). He may use any armor and any shield and add his full Dex bonus to AC no matter what the Dex Limit is.
Defend: At 1st level, a fighter may mark a single enemy within 30ft as a free action on his turn, 1/round. That enemy provokes an AoO if he leaves a square adjacent to the fighter, even with a five-foot step, and if he attacks an ally while within reach of the fighter. Both the fighter and the marked enemy gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls against each other. However, the fighter takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls for attacking any other creature other than the one he has marked. He may only have one mark active at a time. A mark lasts until the enemy is dead, unconscious, or out of the fighter’s sight. At 3rd level, the fighter may mark any enemy that he hits with an attack in addition to his normal mark. He may only have two marks active, and takes a penalty to attack rolls for attacking any creature other than those two. At 5th level, this increases to unlimited marks. At 7th level, he no longer takes a penalty to attack rolls for attacking other creatures and marked enemies no longer gain +2 to damage against the fighter. At 9th level, the fighter may take a 5ft step to make an AoO against marked enemies attacking his allies. At 13th level, the fighter gains a +4 bonus to damage rolls against marked enemies. At 15th level, the fighter gains a +2 bonus to AC against marked enemies. At 17th level, the fighter doubles the bonus to damage and AC to +8 and +4 respectively. At 19th level, a fighter may add a special mark to a single enemy that is already marked as a swift action. This mark makes it impossible to attack any other ally in sight without provoking an AoO. As long as the creature is in the fighter’s line of sight and makes an attack against an ally, a fighter may take as many five-foot steps as necessary instantly to reach the enemy and make an AoO. This lasts until the enemy is killed, and they are unaware of anything other than a normal mark being on them.
Brute Toughness: At 7th level, you no longer take falling damage. At 13th level, you no longer take bludgeoning damage.

Dexterity
A dexterity fighter gains proficiency with all ranged weapons. He gains a +1 bonus to all ranged attack rolls at first level, and an additional +1 at 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th, for a total of +7 at level 19. This counts as BAB points for the purpose of Power Attack. A dexterity fighter gains a bonus to initiative equal to one half his character level. His armor has no maximum dexterity bonus.
Evasion: At 3rd level, the fighter takes no damage from a successful reflex save if a successful save would cause him to only take half damage.
Shift: At 5th level, the fighter gains the ability to make a 10 ft step, which is identical to a five foot step except for its length. At 9th level, he may make a 15 ft step, and at 13th he may make a 20 ft step. At 19th level, he may take a step equal to his speed or 30 ft, whichever is greater.
Throw Weapon: A fighter of 7th level or higher may use any light weapon with which he is proficient as a thrown weapon. At 11th level, a fighter may use any weapon with which he is proficient. This acts in all ways like throwing a dagger when considering range, attack roll, etc.
Duck: If a fighter of 9th level or higher has cover, he is also treated as having concealment.
Precision Shot: At 11th level, a fighter may disable an opponent’s ability to take a five-foot step without provoking an attack of opportunity with a successful melee attack.
Quick Shift: At 13th level, a fighter may take a five-foot step (or equivalent) in addition to any other movement.
Displacement: At 15th level, a fighter permanently has concealment.
Special Shot: All attacks a fighter of 17th level makes cause the enemy to be shaken.
Insane Reflexes: at 19th level, a fighter never provokes AoOs and has no limit on the amount he can make in any given amount of time. Whenever he rolls a reflex save, he rolls twice and takes the better result. Whenever he make a reflex save, he may take a five-foot step (or equivalent).

Adaptability: Fighters are a varied and adaptable lot, with an unusual and sometimes unexpected set of skills.
Pick any one skill (Knowledge and Perform skill selected individually) and add that skill to your list of class skills. You immediately gain ranks in it equal to your ECL+2. Afterwards, you must spend skill points to continue to improve this ability, as normal.
You may add an additional skill and immediately gain ranks in it at Fighter level 5, 10, 15, and 20.
Fighters gain proficiency with a single exotic weapon of their choice at character creation.
Most low tier melee classes get http://forum.faxcelestis.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7688&sid=7ad8c113ca522af6cf74d2c90d3e5932 (this).
Weapon Aptitude: (stolen from warblade) At 4th level, with 1 hour of practice with a new weapon a Fighter may change the designated weapon for any feat he possesses that applies only to a single weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Boomerang Daze) replacing one weapon for another in both the prerequisites and the feat's description. He must have the newly designated weapon in hand during his practice and he must be proficient with it to make this change. A Fighter can adjust any number of feats with a single practice in this way, but he doesn't have to adjust them all in the same way. He cannot change the designated weapons in such a way that he no longer meets the prerequisites for another feat he possesses. Feats adjusted in this way remain so designated for as long as he likes. He may re-adjust to a previously designated weapon as a swift action within 1 day per Fighter level of adjusting from that weapon, otherwise he must spend another hour in practice to adjust his feats.
Fleet of Foot (Ex): You would be useless in battle if you could not reach that battle in a timely manner; consequently, you have learned how to get to places quickly.

At 3rd level, you may perform a Run action as a Move action, but cannot take two Move actions to move on any round in which you do this. You additionally gain the ability to use your Standard action at any point during the Run action. You receive a +10' bonus to your Base Land Speed.

In addition, select one of the following:
Swim Speed: You gain a Swim speed equal to your Base Land Speed, a +8 racial bonus to all Swim checks, and the Skill Mastery ability with the Swim skill. You may Run while swimming, as long as you swim in a straight line.
Climb Speed: You gain a Climb speed equal to your Base Land Speed, a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks, and the Skill Mastery ability with the Climb skill. You still must make a Climb check for any surface with a Climb DC above 0; you may move at twice your Climb speed by making a Climb check for that Surface with a -5 penalty to your check, and do not lose your Dexterity bonus to AC while climbing, and are not treated as Flat-Footed. You may attack as normal, as long as you use at least one hand to hold onto the surface you are climbing.
Freedom of Movement: at 11th level, you are permanently under the effects of freedom of movement.
This ability counts as Spring Attack for the purpose of prerequisites.
Changes have been made to fighter bonus feats, and some new ones have been added:
Power Attack: Melee and ranged attack rolls. Using power attack always grants a two-for-one trade, even if you are not using a two-handed weapon. In addition, requires 13 str or dex.
Blind fight: Miss chance is reduced by 50% instead of roll twice. If that reduces it to 0, the miss chance is not effective.
Combat Expertise: Now can take 13 wis as well as int.
Whirlwind Attack: No ability score requirements.
Combat Reflexes: Dodge is a prerequisite. You do not take a penalty to AC when you would be denied your dex bonus to AC, although you still count as having the penalty for a rogue’s sneak attack and similar abilities.
Deflect Arrows: You don’t have to have a free hand.
Catch Arrows: You don’t have to have a free hand.
Rapid Shot: Full attack is not necessary.
Improved Precise Shot: Ignores all concealment.
Quick Draw: It only takes a swift action to draw a hidden weapon. It takes an immediate or free to draw a non-hidden weapon.
Rapid Reload: Rendered invalid.
Two-Weapon Fighting: Increase bonuses by 2.
Two-Weapon Defense: The bonuses increase by one each.
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting: You do not gain an extra attack, but all penalties for Two-Weapon Fighting disappear.
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting: You gain a second attack with your off hand as the original text for Improved TWF, but there is no penalty to attack.
Manyshot: all penalties mentioned are reduced by two points.
All http://dndtools.eu/feats/categories/tactical/ (tactical feats) are added to the fighter bonus feats. You must meet the prerequisites.
All feats and feat fixes that appear http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14309736#post14309736 (here) are available, and replace their counterparts for already existing feats.
Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Lighting Reflexes, Rapid Reload, Run, and Self-Sufficient are added to the list.
All of the following are available:
Shield deflector
Requirements: Fighter 8, Dex 12
If you have dex-bonus to AC, and are being subjected to a magical effect that targets touch AC, make an attack roll with your shield. You may use this in place of touch AC.
At +12 BAB you may send it back, with a -5 penalty to the touch attack roll, providing your shield is at least +1.

Arrow Catcher
Requirements: Fighter 5, Dex 12
If any ranged attack would hit you, and you have a positive AC, you may catch the arrow with your shield. Doing so gives a (cumulative) -4 to AC until the start of your next turn, and prevents you from full-attack the next turn.
At +8 BAB the penalty is lowered to -3, at +10 to -2, at +12 to -1 and at +14 the AC-penalty is removed altogether, along with the full-attack-restriction.

Protect Comrade
Requirements: Fighter 3, 14 Wis or Fighter 8, wielding a shield.
You may defend a willing ally in battle. You move into his square, and may substitute your saves, HP and AC for his. He may take no action, other than ending the protection, you can only take a standard action. A fighter 10 can move 5ft/round while doing this, +15BAB lets you do a full attack while protecting your comrade.

Combat Sprint
Requirements: STR 14, medium armor proficiency
A character may ignore movement penalties caused by wearing armor or carrying a medium load, for a number of rounds per day equal to his Constitution score.

Extended Step
Prerequisite: Combat Sprint
A character may move 10' rather than 5' when taking the 5' step movement.

En Passant
Prerequisite: Combat Reflexes
If a character passes within range of an enemy while moving back out of range, they may take one of their attacks of opportunity at that enemy with a -4 penalty to-hit

Tarsten Corvus
2012-12-03, 09:52 PM
Dud love this. I am currently running a archer archetype fighter myself. and this would make it awesome mainly the Hit Die. All the bonus feats is that what you get on the side of normal Fighter bonus Feats or a choice to pick them?

Zelkon
2012-12-03, 09:59 PM
Dud love this. I am currently running a archer archetype fighter myself. and this would make it awesome mainly the Hit Die. All the bonus feats is that what you get on the side of normal Fighter bonus Feats or a choice to pick them?

If it says "you gain as a bonus feat," then yes, it's free. If it's in the spoiler and not listed as a "you gain as a bonus feat," then you have to choose it. However, you choose them at the beginning of every day, not at each level.

Tarsten Corvus
2012-12-03, 10:13 PM
Doesn't that seem like a bit OP? I would it be better to do more of a set amount say "change 5 Feats a day or such?? or am i missing the point of the remix?

Grod_The_Giant
2012-12-03, 10:29 PM
Changing bonus feats are fine. The biggest concerns I see from a quick glance at this are:


Still no out-of-combat abilities, except for a few skills for Int or Cha-based fighters. Without them, you'll never rise about tier 4.
You've slapped a bunch of combat abilities on the chassis-- hooray!-- and added maneuvers. Either would have been enough. Both is sheer, bloody overkill (especially with the ability to prepare Martial Study multiple times). Stick to the class abilities and stop stepping on the Warblade's toes.


Other thoughts:

Preparing feats kind of makes the bonus Power Attack unnecessary, and more-or-less completely subsumes Weapon Aptitude.
No recovery mechanism for maneuvers.
Link is broken.
Why do you grant the explicitly supernatural Desert Wind school as a default option, instead of the standard-for-all-classes Stone Dragon?
Why do you grant supernatural maneuvers at all?
Why UMD, besides the fact that it's a powerful school?
The class needs mobility features to compete with fast, flying, and/or teleporting foes at higher levels.
It's a real mish-mash of abilities at the moment. I'd try to consolidate, and write it up in a more organized fashion, with a table and everything. It looks more professional, meaning that more people will give you feedback and will be more likely to use it in games.

Zelkon
2012-12-04, 07:31 AM
Changing bonus feats are fine. The biggest concerns I see from a quick glance at this are:


Still no out-of-combat abilities, except for a few skills for Int or Cha-based fighters. Without them, you'll never rise about tier 4.
You've slapped a bunch of combat abilities on the chassis-- hooray!-- and added maneuvers. Either would have been enough. Both is sheer, bloody overkill (especially with the ability to prepare Martial Study multiple times). Stick to the class abilities and stop stepping on the Warblade's toes.

Why is it overkill? I'm not challenging it, I'm simply curious. I'm houseruling the warblade in a similar fashion, for the very reason that the fighter is stepping on its toes. Could you elaborate just a bit? What would you have instead? And I'm terrible at out of combat abilities. What would you suggest?


Other thoughts:

Preparing feats kind of makes the bonus Power Attack unnecessary, and more-or-less completely subsumes Weapon Aptitude.
No recovery mechanism for maneuvers.
Link is broken.
Why do you grant the explicitly supernatural Desert Wind school as a default option, instead of the standard-for-all-classes Stone Dragon?
Why do you grant supernatural maneuvers at all?
Why UMD, besides the fact that it's a powerful school?
The class needs mobility features to compete with fast, flying, and/or teleporting foes at higher levels.
It's a real mish-mash of abilities at the moment. I'd try to consolidate, and write it up in a more organized fashion, with a table and everything. It looks more professional, meaning that more people will give you feedback and will be more likely to use it in games.

1. I don't see what you're getting at here. Why?
2. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll fix it. It's basically the same as the warblade.
3. Thanks, will fix.
4. Stone dragon felt more thematic for Constitution, but I'll probably switch it around a bit.
5. I guess it comes from be playing 4e normally. I'm going to keep it.
6. I guess I kinda like the flavor, but I might remove it so that it's only for charisma fighters. Haven't decided. I just thought it would be handy for the fighter to have.
7. Agreed. The Dex fighter does this handily, but it needs some more default options. I'll get to work.
8. I'm fully aware. :smallsigh: I hate making tables, but it indeed will be more helpful. I'll get to work.

Grod_The_Giant
2012-12-04, 10:43 AM
Why is it overkill? I'm not challenging it, I'm simply curious. I'm houseruling the warblade in a similar fashion, for the very reason that the fighter is stepping on its toes. Could you elaborate just a bit? What would you have instead? And I'm terrible at out of combat abilities. What would you suggest?
The Warblade already is already quite high-power-- put a solidly-build warblade in a group with pretty much anything but well-played casters or highly optimized others and watch it blow everyone out of the water when it comes to killing things. It needs a touch of nerf* and a bit more to do out-of-combat, not a massive power-up.

Besides... the warblade is already hands-down one of the best fighter fixes out there. There are ways of making an effective fighter without maneuvers, but if you want a martial adept fighter fix, well... WotC has you covered already. Like any other creative enterprise, homebrew needs to stake out a place of its own to be successful.


1. I don't see what you're getting at here. Why?
You give two different feat retraining abilities, but one comes in at first level and lets you swap all your feats, and one comes in at 4th level and lets you change out a very limited selection. That's redundant.

*I cut the hit die down to a d10 and reduce his recovery mechanic to a standard action of "centering yourself."

Deepbluediver
2012-12-04, 11:58 AM
The problem that most people have with the core fighter is that it lacks versatility, not that it needs more power. The increased damage bonuses and being able to swap weapon types makes you somewhat more adaptable in the field, but your one trick is still mostly just dealing physical damage.

When people hear "the fighter is weak" they immediately jump on the "boost his damage" bandwagon, which doesn't really address the problem, and in fact creates a new issue where the fighter rapidly eclipses every other melee-based character. The rogue still has his skill tricks, but what does the barbarian fall back on? Ditto the ranger. Homebrew isn't usually rated very highly if it causes as many problems as it fixes. (admittedly, this can be tricky because D&D is so very interconnected).
And I don't think a fighter needs the ability the swap his feets around every single day; that kind of switching when done with spells is what leads most of the tier 1 casters to be labeled as unbalanced in the other direction.'

Plus, I'm of the opinion that there is enough room in D&D for both fighters and warblades and while ToB is a nice alternative; it shouldn't be a replacement.


Here's a few things I did for my fighter fix that I think help players make more individualized characters, as well as be able to mesh better with the rest of their group. Feel free to take anything you like, or just use it for inspiration as to the kind of thing I'm talking about.

HP- every level the fighter gets 5+1d5 (this fix is common amongst all my classes; the casters with small HD rely less on large HP pools anyway, meaning the change doesnt effect much, and the meleers won't get screwed by bad roles)

Skills- added Spot and Search to the list, (or Perception if you're using PF) and increased skill points to 4 per level


Class features-
Feats- fighters get a Fighter Bonus Feat every single level

Adaptability (gained at first level, text copied in full including fluff)
Fighters are a varied and adaptable lot, with an unusual and sometimes unexpected set of skills.
Pick any one skill (Knowledge and Perform skill selected individually) and add that skill to your list of class skills. You immediately gain ranks in it equal to your ECL+2. Afterwards, you must spend skill points to continue to improve this ability, as normal.

You may add an additional skill and immediately gain ranks in it at Fighter level 5, 10, 15, and 20.

[this let's people pick and choose what skills they want for either gameplay or roleplay, plus boosting their total effective skill points]

Armor and Weapon Training (again, from Pathfinder) [since the fighter is one of the most gear-dependent classes, this helps get him a little something extra out of it]

Physical Prowess (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) (from the dead level article on WotC website)

And the only truely entirely new thing I added was was a series of extraordinary abilities called Battlecries. You can use them several times per day, and you learn a new one every few levels. The usually provide short term buffs to your allies or debuffs to your enemies, so that the fighter has something to do even if he can't swing his sword or land a hit with his bow.

Zelkon
2012-12-04, 12:29 PM
Noted. How can I give the fighter more versitility out of combat?

Amechra
2012-12-05, 02:07 PM
Think of all the things that you would expect a soldier on campaign to be able to do.

Give the fighter the ability to do those things.

Roman Legionaires would routinely march 50 miles in a day, and then would still be in fighting shape (or, well, they didn't camp in tents. They built forts to spend the night in.)

I would actually suggest that they get abilities to act like they have higher ability scores, since their battle-hardened lifestyle lends to them not whining when the going gets tough.

Zelkon
2012-12-06, 05:59 PM
Ok, did some changing and fixing. Removed maneuvers and added some minor stuff. Still at a loss for mobility.

Amechra
2012-12-06, 06:47 PM
Hey, take a look at Fleet of Foot! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236446)

I've probably got to update that class, anyway...

Grod_The_Giant
2012-12-06, 07:20 PM
Ok, did some changing and fixing. Removed maneuvers and added some minor stuff. Still at a loss for mobility.

Ability to ignore difficult terrain. A little fast movement. Big bonuses to movement skills. Ignoring movement-based AoO's. "Riding along" teleport spells if you're right there when they're cast. Preventing 5-foot steps. Freedom of movement. That sort of thing.

Zelkon
2012-12-06, 07:38 PM
Ability to ignore difficult terrain. A little fast movement. Big bonuses to movement skills. Ignoring movement-based AoO's. "Riding along" teleport spells if you're right there when they're cast. Preventing 5-foot steps. Freedom of movement. That sort of thing.

I think I'll go with Fleet of Foot and then freedom of movement at later levels.

Grod_The_Giant
2012-12-06, 07:50 PM
Oh, and a table. Tables make everything better. There's a tutorial somewhere around here if you're not sure how. And maybe some bold text, too, for clarity.

Andion Isurand
2012-12-06, 08:04 PM
I would actually suggest that they get abilities to act like they have higher ability scores, since their battle-hardened lifestyle lends to them not whining when the going gets tough.

Battle Hardened: For the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for any feat on the list of fighter bonus feats, treat each of the fighter's ability scores as being 2 points higher than its actual value.