[Spoiler] The Monster in the Darkness's Identity

[kimagure]

I'm sure someone has posted this before, but I just figured it out. The Monster in the Darkness is a Vermiurge

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/vermiurge.htm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/79218950/162/VERMIURGE

It's an epic creature with a STR 34 and INT 18, Dr 30/+5 and a whole bunch of features. It's pretty ugly based on the picture.

The things that convince me are:
1. It's got a concealing aura that gives it permanent 9/10 concealment.
2. It has an aura of swarming insects (the demonic cockroaches).
3. It has a Frightful presence that can cause affected creatures to be shaken.
4. The creature has the additional special qualities of "spell-like abilities" which explain the teleport and earthquake abilities. These abilities aren't defined anywhere in the entry (or that I can find) and are separate from the other auras/powers listed.
5. It can be found in any climate/terrain

The monster itself is probably just a large one (42-52 HD) which fits its size in the comic. It mentions at one point to O-Chul that its father was big. The 53-70 HD ones are Huge size.

All of the pieces fit.

[kimagure]

Ugh. Haven't posted before. I think I just double-posted. My bad guys.

[Koo Rehtorb]

I'm not sure that thing looks like something that's even physically capable of speaking common.

[kimagure]

Well, Redcloak is surprised to see that the monster speaks common. An 18 int and the ability to speak terran definitely show that it's intelligent enough for speech.

Although vemiurges can be found anywhere, apparently they're usually content to wander wastelands, deserts, and grassland steps, so it would be unusual to find one in a rainforest.

The most compelling argument I can think of against, is the fact that Xykon charmed it into eating Redcloak if the goblin betrayed the lich. Whereas vemiurges are immune to all mind affecting effects.

Which isn't to say that the charm actually worked, but hey.

[Hogwarts9876]

Which isn't to say that the charm actually worked, but hey.

This would make for an interesting twist, if (when?) Redcloak decides to betray Xykon.

[Boogastreehouse]

Allow me to direct you to a thread that's been discussing this subject for years now:

MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253731)

[coineineagh]

Nice theory. I just wonder why O-chul called this:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery5a/44163_C5_vermiurge.jpg
"a good MAN":smalleek:

[Finagle]

Soo...how did the stereotyped big game hunters manage to capture an epic monster, even a young one, in their little trap?

[kimagure]

Soo...how did the stereotyped big game hunters manage to capture an epic monster, even a young one, in their little trap?

Same way the circus kept him in a cage. He never fights anything or resists anything.

[kimagure]

Allow me to direct you to a thread that's been discussing this subject for years now:

MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253731)

Thanks for the link. I hadn't discovered that thread.

Respectfully, however, I'd like to disagree that Vermiurge was considered. Under the first page reveal, it pretty much dismisses the idea pro-forma with the line:

"revolting sight, but can speak and is immune to mind-affecting spells."

It can speak, but generally only speaks Terran. And although they may be immune to mind-affecting spells, the top choices seem to include gargantuan and colossal creatures as well as the Dread Linnorm which is immune to enchantment.

After all, the first appearance of the demonic cockroaches was around the Monster back in strip 82. They also travel when he travels, as seen in strips 120 and 147.

[Dr.Epic]

After all, the first appearance of the demonic cockroaches was around the Monster back in strip 82. They also travel when he travels, as seen in strips 120 and 147.

Nope. They're from SoD.

Also, I doubt the Giant would make is something so easy to find and identify. He wouldn't be doing his job as a storyteller if this twist could so easily be solved. Also, the MitD may not even be a D&D monster. We know it's something he didn't create, but we also don't know what piece of fiction it's from.

[Winter]

Soo...how did the stereotyped big game hunters manage to capture an epic monster, even a young one, in their little trap?

Massive SoD-Spoiler. Most important of them all! WARNING!

With a Steak

:smallwink:

[lio45]

IDK... doesn't seem to me that MitD is "always being surrounded by an aura of swarming insects". (From the description, I'd expect any Vermiurge starting anew to have re-collected a bunch of them after spending a while in or around the same location in a non-arctic, non-desertic climate.)

[Proud Tortoise]

The most compelling argument I can think of against, is the fact that Xykon charmed it into eating Redcloak if the goblin betrayed the lich. Whereas vemiurges are immune to all mind affecting effects.
Where does it say Xykon charmed it to do that? I don't remember ever seeing it.

I prefer to think we will never find out what the MitD is. No form would truly do him justice.

Also, if vermiurges always have an aura of darkness, why was a magic Hello Kitty umbrella necessary at all?

[Kish]

Where does it say Xykon SPOILER? I don't remember ever seeing it.

Start of Darkness.


I prefer to think we will never find out what the MitD is.
Going to be disappointed.

[Proud Tortoise]

Right, never mind. I just did a little research on the subject. I still don't think its a vermiurge tho'.

[FujinAkari]

With all due respect... how precisely are you able to propose a theory calling on the MitD to have 18 Int with a straight face? :P

[Crusher]

The comment dismisses the Vermiurge briefly, but there's just no way MitD is one. Probably the easiest way to go is to direct you to the initial post of that thread which explains in detail how folks have gone about assembling and evaluating the list of potential monsters as fits for MitD. To be fair, I wouldn't say we've come across a candidate that has made anyone think "That's IT! That's the MitD!" So the candidate could still be out there.

In a nutshell, we've used three basic "tests" to judge a monster for its chance of being MitD, comparing how it fits to three very classic moments for the MitD.

First is the Circus scene in which the MitD stands in front of a bunch of townspeople and doesn't do anything, and the people all react in fear, disgust and confusion. So it has to be really strange looking, probably disgusting and very hard to identify without having an automatic aura that causes death or terror or whatever. Verimurge does fine here. Weird looking giant scorpion, hard to see as its surrounded by other bugs. "Shaken" as an aura effect works pretty well.

Second is the Tower scene where the MitD punches Miko and Windstriker through the wall after almost entirely ignoring a round of her attacks. So, either very high DR or defenses or a truly gigantic HP pool. Vermiurge does mediocre here. DR30/+5 and 700+ hp is more than adequate for the defenses (unless there's version issues) but a 34 STR is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for punching Miko through the wall. Substantial discussion was had which, along with the *Stomp* scene, suggests that MitD has enormous STR, almost certainly probably 40+. 34 is pretty low, possibly too low. Hence mediocre.

Third is the "Escape" scene where MitD makes V and O'Chul vanish before Xykon can finish them off. Most likely this requires a Wish-level spell, but things like Greater Teleport or powerful levels of Teleport Other can work here. Surprisingly few monsters are capable of this (lots of demons and devils and other things can do the "teleport self plus 50 pounds of stuff" ability but that doesn't cut it). Vermiurge simply has no abilities that fit here.

This all isn't to say that the Vermiurge *isn't* the MitD. I mean, I'm not Rich, I don't actually know what it is. But the evidence would suggest that it fits the criteria especially well. Plus, there's the whole "immune to mind control" thing which disqualifies it right off the bat.

[Dr.Epic]

With all due respect... how precisely are you able to propose a theory calling on the MitD to have 18 Int with a straight face? :P

Because the Giant always stays strictly to the official D&D rules and doesn't change anything for plot reason or comedic effect.

:smallwink:

[lio45]

Because the Giant always stays strictly to the official D&D rules and doesn't change anything for plot reason or comedic effect.

:smallwink:

MitD's a special case... the Giant's on record saying it's possible to guess, so anything we see in the comic that pertains to MitD can't have been modified much from "official D&D rules".

Re-read Comic #0431 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html) ... yep, that beast definitely has an INT score of 18. Sure.

[Koo Rehtorb]

There are plenty of indications that it does have high int in other places though.

[Winter]

With all due respect... how precisely are you able to propose a theory calling on the MitD to have 18 Int with a straight face? :P

From what we saw we cannot draw any conclusions about Int. It could be "barely above average" or "super genius". All we can say he very probably has abysmal Wis.

He usually does not seem to actually use the brainpower he has.

But I really think all these speculations belong in the "real" thread (and already have been made countless times over in there).

[Heksefatter]

You can argue that MitD has a high int, but a low wis, or perhaps the other way around. But I can't see a combination of extremely high int (18) and godly wis (40).

I can't see the blinding speed either. Also, if the MitD was something people would normally expect to be a highly intelligent lawful neutral creature. Mostly, they expect it to be cooperative in evil schemes, even those, such as Redcloak, who know what it is.

I don't think my arguments are knockdown...but I'd be disappointed if the MitD really was a vermiurge.

[Thermophille]

MitD could very well be extremely intelligent, after all, in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html he figured out what the problem was without even thinking.

I do agree that he doesn't have a WIS of 40, however. Also, a Vermiurge wouldn't be able to teleport O-Chull and V in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html



Not that I have any better ideas. I went through a list of monsters with CR above 20, and didn't find anything with the specific traits I'm looking for.

[Emanick]

Third is the "Escape" scene where MitD makes V and O'Chul vanish before Xykon can finish them off. Most likely this requires a Wish-level spell, but things like Greater Teleport or powerful levels of Teleport Other can work here. Surprisingly few monsters are capable of this (lots of demons and devils and other things can do the "teleport self plus 50 pounds of stuff" ability but that doesn't cut it). Vermiurge simply has no abilities that fit here.

Don't the spell-like abilities listed in its entry suggest that it might be able to teleport others?

[Bad Wolf]

Don't the spell-like abilities listed in its entry suggest that it might be able to teleport others?

It also suggests it might be able to use color spray and prestidigitation once in its life each. If its not listed, you have no way of knowing.

[rodneyAnonymous]

This entire conversation belongs in that thread.

[NerdyKris]

Actually, as this thread was two years old when that link was posted, the newest iteration is MitD VIII: Everything we know about MITD (but were afraid Tarrasque) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?347800-MitD-VIII-Everything-we-know-about-MITD-%28but-were-afraid-Tarrasque%29)

[Haruki-kun]

The Winged Mod: Turn Unthread!