Stp Erudite Cerebremancer?

[roguemetal]

DM wants to run a high optimization arena for level 10 with almost ALL books and online content (FR, Eb, Inc, ToB...) available, and only rejected LM and BoED. So I wanted to do something that no DM ever let me do before and play a Stp Erudite.

Stp Erudite appears to qualify for Cerebremancer starting level 3, and I don't think that's an argument. The question is if this can double my CL/PP/give me double caster progression.

RAW and RAI I'm curious, since the Cerebremancer's Spells per Day/Powers Known from Expanded Psionics states "...gains spells per day as if he had also attained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class." but considering the Erudite doesn't use spells per day, is this feature pointless, or do I get this as PP? It later states with the disclaimer "...essentially..." that he "...adds the level of cerebremancer to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and manifesting class the character has, then determines spells per day, caster level, power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly...", which seems more RAI than RAW, but my DM is pretty lenient.

With a one-level dip in Ardent, I could take Magic Mantle, which would remove the argument maybe...

I'm pretty sure I can at least get the CL increase, if not the extra PP/spells known. How would you rule this?

[Steamflogger]

Benefit: You add Spellcraft to your class skill list, which allows you to attempt to convert an arcane spell into a power you can add to your repertoire. You treat the spell as a discipline power for the basis of learning it, and you must first succeed on a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level) and then a Psicraft check as per the normal rules of learning a discipline power (see page 154 of Complete Psionic).

Each spell costs a certain number of power points to manifest. The higher the level of the spell, the more power points it costs. The table below describes each spell's cost.
...
Because the spells are now effectively psionic powers, they are no longer affected by metamagic feats. However, metapsionic feats can affect them as they would a psionic power.

As with casting a spell, manifesting a spell may require certain components.

Even if you treat converted spells as arcane spells instead of powers, they are still manifested, not cast, therefore you do not meet the prerequisites for Cerebremancer. (Able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells.)

As for whether you get dual progression, the Erudite, STP or otherwise, is not an arcane caster. They remain a manifester, and as such would not be able to receive the benefits of dual progression.

*Edit*


In addition, you always treat magic and psionics as identical. Therefore, powers such as dispel psionics work for both magic and psionics. Most campaigns already treat them in this matter, so this mantle is most useful in campaigns where they are considered different systems.

All that does is add arcane-psionics transparency, if your campaign isn't using it, but as the ability states, most do. And if your campaign doesn't use transparency, then spell resistance isn't as effective (or maybe it doesn't work, I forget which) against your powers, so the ability is a bit of a double-edged sword. Basically, transparency already exists between Arcane and divine spells, and psionic transparency just means that it works as a third facet rather than separate system.

[Psyren]

Note that you don't need an Ardent dip to get Magic Mantle - just trade your other bonus feat out (your psicrystal) for Mantled Erudite.

As to whether Magic Mantle grants "super-transparency," I personally hate the notion.

[roguemetal]

Even if you treat converted spells as arcane spells instead of powers, they are still manifested, not cast, therefore you do not meet the prerequisites for Cerebremancer. (Able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells.)
With psionic-arcane transparency is this really that big a deal? Either way I agree about the rest of what you said. Oh well. :smallfrown:


Note that you don't need an Ardent dip to get Magic Mantle - just trade your other bonus feat out (your psicrystal) for Mantled Erudite.

Aha... I wasn't aware both feats could be traded off... not that it changes anything if I can't make this work anyway. Either way, the "super-transparency" notion was more a whim than anything else.

[Psyren]

With psionic-arcane transparency is this really that big a deal? Either way I agree about the rest of what you said. Oh well. :smallfrown:

Standard transparency applies to three things:
- Spells
- SLAs
- Items

All this means is that one of the above things that interacts with magic in some way will interact with psionics in an equivalent way. So a spell that negates or magic will negate or psionics, an SLA that detects magic will detect psionics, and an item that boosts caster level will also boost manifester level, etc.

However, transparency doesn't apply to classes; a manifester is a manifester and a spellcaster is a spellcaster, even when the manifester in question has powers that mimic the effects of spells. A class that advances manifesting will not advance a spellcaster, or vice-versa, unless it specifically advances either/both.



Aha... I wasn't aware both feats could be traded off... not that it changes anything if I can't make this work anyway. Either way, the "super-transparency" notion was more a whim than anything else.

For an extremely high-powered game I might consider it. But the implications can open a huge can of balance worms - blasting the doors off the hinges to allow all kinds of abuse like Su Psionics, metapsionic rods, heightened+augmented powers and more.