Already have a character, still picking a class

[Morrison]

I tend to come up with a character's name, personality, appearance, and overall flavour before even picking a character class, so the exact mechanics of this character are still up in the air, is what I'm saying.

The character I want to build is named Strange Ian, which is of course a pun on Lovecraft's 'strange eons' because I'm terrible. He'd be some type of caster, ranging from neutral- to evil-aligned, and probably with thematic ties to abberations or similiarly eerie Lovecraftian monsters. I've come up with a whole tragic backstory for him involving neogi driving his parents mad with psionics when he was a child. Ideally, he would also have a pet runehound (Monster Manual III), which I would probably have to nerf a bit because some of the senses on that thing are a bit story-breaking, but I'm prepared to let that go if necessary, which it might well be because I've seen pets get pretty badly outclassed at higher levels. Note also that in my group's house rules, the Leadership feat is usually banned.

The main things I've been considering are:
* Wizard, probably with an emphasis on summoning. Runehound might be possible through summoning or modified version of those Improved Familiar feats. Only problem is that wizards are a bit aesthetically obvious.
* Archivist. I hear these guys are really good if you play them correctly, but also that almost all your money will go towards scrolls. This isn't necessarily a problem. Also, the whole 'seeker of forbidden knowledge' totally fits with the character's flavour.
* Psion, probably with the Erudite variant in Complete Psionic, and probably specializing in metacreativity. The lack of runehound would be more palatable with all the astral constructs, but I'm worried that Erudite looks horrifyingly complicated.

Multiclass builds are allowed.

The group I play with tend to go for pretty atrocious power-gaming, to the point where the CR on an encounter is usually about 3 points higher than the average party level. Therefore, this character would need to be very powerful in order to keep up.

[Kazyan]

Binder. If you have access to the book, just read it.

If it's hi-op, bind Zceryll the moment you hit level 9 (you took Improved Binding; this is not an argument) and never let go ever.

[Morrison]

I thought of that, and decided against it after trying a session as a test character who was a binder. I found it really underpowered. Most of the other accounts I've found support this.
The flavour is pretty awesome, though, no question.

[Snowbluff]

I don't know.

Maybe something weird, like an Alienist.

Get some pseudonatural creatures.

[BIGMamaSloth]

You could go Anima mage. Its a Binding/Arcane Spellcasting prc, Does some stuff with meta-magic, bumps the binders power up a whole lot. I cant remember exactly the fluff for it, but I remember it being like a slightly more evil binder.

Its in Tome of magic with the binder if I'm not mistaken.

[Snowbluff]

You could go Anima mage. Its a Binding/Arcane Spellcasting prc, Does some stuff with meta-magic, bumps the binders power up a whole lot. I cant remember exactly the fluff for it, but I remember it being like a slightly more evil binder.

Its in Tome of magic with the binder if I'm not mistaken.

Doesn't require any Binding Levels to enter or progress, either. Just grab some binding feats to meet he requirement.

[limejuicepowder]

You could go Anima mage. Its a Binding/Arcane Spellcasting prc, Does some stuff with meta-magic, bumps the binders power up a whole lot. I cant remember exactly the fluff for it, but I remember it being like a slightly more evil binder.

Its in Tome of magic with the binder if I'm not mistaken.

I 2nd this. Anime mage is very strong, since it gets full casting. The only thing you really give up on the binder side is the melee oriented vestiges, which there are several (unless you want to be a self-buffing casting). What level did you play at when you tried out the binder? Lower than 8 without multiclassing they do look fairly weak to me, but once they can bind two at once things change.

Anime mage's basic shtick is subjugating the vestiges they bind to further fuel their spells. Pretty badass.

[Snowbluff]

*snork* GEHEHEHEHHEHEHEHE!

"Anime" Mage.

XD

[Namfuak]

I don't know.

Maybe something weird, like an Alienist.

Get some pseudonatural creatures.

My first thought was Alienist too. Perhaps pick up Mother Cyst from Libris Mortis?

Possible build could be:

Archivist 5/Alienist 10/Thaumatergist 5 (to fit the theme)

[Morrison]

Wow, these responses came in quickly.
Anima mage will definitely be taken into consideration. The test binder I played was level 9, he had the Improved Binding feat and everything, but he wasn't all that great.
Alienist has definitely occurred to me, but the penalties to Charisma skills are a bit intimidating. Has anyone played one of these? Is it worth it?
I believe someone said something about necrotic cysts. Although not a bad idea, I don't think I'm going to run with it, and here's why: the campaign I just finished the other day had a character who made prevalent (and terrifying, as PVP gradually took over the game) use of the cysts, so using them for my own character so soon would be a bit redundant. Also, I wasn't planning on going in an undead-based direction with this character.

[Jeff the Green]

Wow, these responses came in quickly.
Anima mage will definitely be taken into consideration. The test binder I played was level 9, he had the Improved Binding feat and everything, but he wasn't all that great.

Anima mage is great for two reasons. First for metamagic reduction. Second for some of the passive powers the vestiges give you. For example, some of my favorite spells are Sanctified or Corrupt, which make you pay a sacrifice or corruption component instead of or in addition to material components, focuses, etc. This sacrifice/corruption is usually ability damage, which Naberius heals automatically. So feel free to fire off as many Lahm's finger darts as you like! Malphus gives you great scouting abilities, Astaroth gives you a crafting feat, etc.



Alienist has definitely occurred to me, but the penalties to Charisma skills are a bit intimidating. Has anyone played one of these? Is it worth it?

It's generally agreed to be a bad class. It removes your ability to summon the more utilitarian creatures with your summon monster spells and only gives a minor boost to your other ones. Still, it's a fun class. My favorite part is that it makes your familiar pseudonatural.

You could combine the two to decent effect. You'd do something like Binder 1/Conjurer 1/Anima Mage 4/Alienist 6/Anima Mage +6 (10)/Alienist +2 (8).

Get Improved Binding at first level and flaws to get a metamagic feat and precocious apprentice. Also, take the rapid summoning alternate class feature and the enhanced summoning alternative class features from here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#conjurerVariants). That way you don't have to spend a feat on Spell Focus (conjuration). Use your 3rd or 6th level feat to get Obtain Familiar. You gave up your Wizard familiar for rapid summoning, but the familiar you got from the feat is better—it's based on your caster level, not your wizard level. Then get one of the X Familiar feats (I like Celestial or Dragon, personally).

Finally load up on feats to boost summoning, particularly metamagic: Extend, Empower/Maximize (increases the number of summons you get), Metamagic School Focus, etc. Combining Metamagic School Focus with Vestige Metamagic will let you cast a maximized extended summon monster with no increase in spell slot level, or add on empower for one increase in spell level.

If you're starting at a high level (>14), you can switch it around to Binder 1/Conjurer 1/Anima Mage 4/Alienist 9/Anima Mage +5 (9). You lose the Binder's capstone, but you can be Venerable (+3 mental stats) without suffering the penalties to your physical stats. That will help offset the penalty to Wisdom the Alienist gives you, and boost your spellcasting and binding.

Another option is to see if the Pathfinder Summoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner) is allowed. (It's fully backwards compatible; you just need to change the skills a bit. You gain an Eidolon, which is essentially a big nasty summon that lasts all day (or until it's killed), and you can customize it with as many tentacles, claws, and mouths as you want.

[Morrison]

Another thing I should mention is that we usually start around level 5 and stop around level 10 or 12. The highest we've ever gone was 16.

[Jeff the Green]

Another thing I should mention is that we usually start around level 5 and stop around level 10 or 12. The highest we've ever gone was 16.

In that case, the first build (Binder 1/Conjurer 1/Anima Mage 4/Alienist 6/Anima Mage +6 (10)/Alienist +2 (8)) should be eminently playable in those levels. You'll end up with less ability to abuse metamagic, but also fewer metamagic feats, so it works out. Consider Cloudy Conjuration. It's pretty useful at those levels.

[Snowbluff]

Alienist isn't really that good. The pseudonatural template can be rather weak. I would suggest getting an Improved Familiar and level 5 Alienist to get yourself something really weird and good at fighting for a familiar.

[Suteinu]

My vote goes to Archevist, possible Alienist later on, depending on how hopelessly obsessed he is with uncovering the pure, vile, horrible TRUTH of the universe, a thuththatmustnotbe uncovered or STOPPED or rEVEALED oR acknowledgedoreatenorsungordefecatedorscreamedorcu ddledorbessedorblasphemdor... orr... orrr... AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!









(i missed the football again):smalleek:

[Morrison]

I don't think archivists qualify for alienist.
Also, I must confess I'm a bit confused. Everyone is saying alienists aren't very good, and that advising me to take 5 or 6 levels of it. Are they good for a brief dip, then?

[Sylvos330]

It may not be the most optimal class but Warlock with the power of the lovcraftian horrors would be fun. I've actually played one in a small game that got all his powers from the elder god priest himself. The players got kind of angry when I betrayed them in the end. :nale:

[Norin]

Ur-Priest comes to mind.

"Stealing" divine powers from divine (or powerful entities from other planes) seems to fit in this concept somehow.

Just a thought i wanted to share.

[Morrison]

Finally looking at the Anima Mage. It sounds amazing, like the entire Binder class was written just for this prestige. Of course, levels in this don't help my familiar at all, but you can't have everything and it was probably just going to be a liability toward the end of the campaign anyway. In this case, I should probably drop getting a familiar altogether. Any advice on cool things that a wizard can get instead?

[Fable Wright]

Finally looking at the Anima Mage. It sounds amazing, like the entire Binder class was written just for this prestige. Of course, levels in this don't help my familiar at all, but you can't have everything and it was probably just going to be a liability toward the end of the campaign anyway. In this case, I should probably drop getting a familiar altogether. Any advice on cool things that a wizard can get instead?

Since you're probably a Conjurer, Abrupt Jaunt (PHB II) is an option, and is widely considered the best thing you can trade your familiar for, so there's that.

[D4rtagnan]

Ummm has anyone suggested Fleshwarper to you? They are a PrC from lords of madness. Essential specialize in the the feat graft flesh.
Instead of summoning Eldritch Abomination, you create you own.

[Jeff the Green]

Finally looking at the Anima Mage. It sounds amazing, like the entire Binder class was written just for this prestige. Of course, levels in this don't help my familiar at all, but you can't have everything and it was probably just going to be a liability toward the end of the campaign anyway. In this case, I should probably drop getting a familiar altogether. Any advice on cool things that a wizard can get instead?

If you want a decent familiar, take one of the ACFs that replace your familiar (e.g. rapid summoning) and then pick the feat Obtain Familiar. Voila, a familiar based off your CL, not class level.


I don't think archivists qualify for alienist.
Also, I must confess I'm a bit confused. Everyone is saying alienists aren't very good, and that advising me to take 5 or 6 levels of it. Are they good for a brief dip, then?

They're not, really. But they do have some nifty effects and the flavor is perfect for your concept.

[Answerer]

Ummm has anyone suggested Fleshwarper to you? They are a PrC from lords of madness. Essential specialize in the the feat graft flesh.
Instead of summoning Eldritch Abomination, you create you own.
This. It advances your Familiar, and might even give it Pseudonatural.

[Urpriest]

This. It advances your Familiar, and might even give it Pseudonatural.

Won't give it pseudonatural, but does make it an aberration and give it tentacles.

As for Alienist, while you are limited in terms of Summon Monster if you make the character Archivist-based you can use other summoning spells instead.

[Answerer]

But those won't get Pseudonatural, which... pretty much defeats the purpose of Alienist.

[Torvon]

Don't like Alienists, it really takes away a lot of your character in a way that you lose control over his development.

Archivist is not only a very stylish class, and the background is really cool as well, it is also at least moderately powerful to get access to every divine spell in the game.

I'm playing a factotum/archivist in another campaign. Not a broken character by any means, but a lot of fun and possibilities.

I second binder, or just wizard/summoner or wizard with a cool familiar.

[Morrison]

If you want a decent familiar, take one of the ACFs that replace your familiar (e.g. rapid summoning) and then pick the feat Obtain Familiar. Voila, a familiar based off your CL, not class level.

Oh, now THAT's a good idea. I'm going to do that. Now all I need to do is talk whoever DMs the next game into letting me get this bizarre creature as a familiar.
I don't know why, but I just really like the runehound. A destrachan would be nice, too, for a bit of ranged DPS, but the HD on those guys is pretty high. Knowing my group, the campaign would probably be pretty close to the end when I got him.

[D4rtagnan]

This. It advances your Familiar, and might even give it Pseudonatural.
Actually Fleashwarper will give you a Aberrant Familiar. Basically as you level up you get to choose different features to add on to your familiar this can range from an Amorphous Form, scales, tentacles, etc.

Other class features allow you to graft different body part onto your self as well as others. Further more as you level you gain Elder Secret, through experimenting grafting allowing you to further improve your body. It CL is 9/10.

[Morrison]

Fleshwarper is really cool and everything, but it's not what I was intending for this character.
Next question: if I do go anima mage, I get all the spells and caster level of being a wizard, but none of the bonus feats. Might it be wiser, therefore, to use a sorcerer as the base class, since they don't get those bonus feats? Also, the sorcerer and binder are both based primarily on charisma, so there'd be a bit more synergy. On the other hand, I've heard that wizards are generally better than sorcerers because they learn more spells, and a high INT can't hurt, since I'm probably going to take the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat from Dragon Magazine (which lets me use INT instead of CON in determining HP, and my group generally waives racial requirements on things like that).

[Tokuhara]

Fleshwarper is really cool and everything, but it's not what I was intending for this character.
Next question: if I do go anima mage, I get all the spells and caster level of being a wizard, but none of the bonus feats. Might it be wiser, therefore, to use a sorcerer as the base class, since they don't get those bonus feats? Also, the sorcerer and binder are both based primarily on charisma, so there'd be a bit more synergy. On the other hand, I've heard that wizards are generally better than sorcerers because they learn more spells, and a high INT can't hurt, since I'm probably going to take the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat from Dragon Magazine (which lets me use INT instead of CON in determining HP, and my group generally waives racial requirements on things like that).

Wizard is technically better than Sorcerer, but it depends on your character, your concept, and your group layout. If there's already a wizard in the party, dig into Sorcerer. If not, Wizard is an excellent choice

[Answerer]

Especially with Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Wizard is much better. Binders don't need a super-high Cha; you won't be relying heavily on save-inducing granted abilities anyway (spells are better for that), and since you're going to only be secondarily a binder, your Vestige level (and therefore Binding DC) will be low.

[Snowbluff]

Especially with Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Wizard is much better. Binders don't need a super-high Cha; you won't be relying heavily on save-inducing granted abilities anyway (spells are better for that), and since you're going to only be secondarily a binder, your Vestige level (and therefore Binding DC) will be low.

Well, if you only grab 3 levels of Wizard to meet the prerequisites of Anima Mage, and take the +2 BL feat, you are operating at Binding level one lesss than you normally would.

The Binding DC really only has RP consequences most of the time anyway. IIRC, Anima Mage has a way of suppressing the effects of a failed check anyway.