Minimally Magical Superweapons

[Chilingsworth]

I've read many threads about magical WMDs, but have wondered if there were any that could be built on primarily nonmagical principles.

I think I've found one. For your consideration: The Brown Mold Bomb.

The basis of this weapon is a box containing an arbitrarily large number of pint flasks of lamp oil interspersed with several flasks of alchemists' fire.
My design uses 80 flasks of lamp oil to 20 flasks of alchemist's fire, arranged 4 layers of five bottles by five bottles each, with five bottles of alchemist's fire placed in each layer. Each bottle would be protected by a quantity of at least minimally flamable packing material to prevent premature breakage.

In this form, the weapon would weigh about 150-200 lbs and could be carried by a strong flying creature, such as a giant eagle zombie. It would be deployed by flying to an altitude of 200 ft and dropping it when over the desired target. The falling damage would essure the destruction of the box and every flask in it, causing the alchemist's fire to ignite and thereby igniting the lamp oil. The weapon would not be aimed as such and would therefore only be able to deal splash damage. Also, anything with any resistance to fire (or hardness) would be immune, still it would be very harmful to anything that isn't so protected. Damage Output: 100 points to each square in a 3x3 area.

Theoretically, this weapon could also be subjected to a shrink item spell and thus many of them could be carried even by many adventurers. Since dropping an object is a free action, it could even be deployed in a single round (move action: draw item, free action, drop item, standard action: dismiss shrink item spell.) Also, since dropping an item is not an attack action, it wouldn't break invisibility.

This weapon could be made globally devestating by replacing the packing material between the flasks with brown mold. Since each flask would be a seperate instance of fire damage, ignition would cause the mold to expand to an area of 2^100 squares at least. This is an area sufficient to cover an Earth-sized planet many times over.

Lastly, brown mold itself could be used to effectively kill Sol-like solar systems. Step one: aquire a viable sample of brown mold. Step two: give brown mold to disposable minion (such as a mindless undead.) Step three: cast a teleportation circle targeting the surface of your world's primary star. Step four: send the minion (with the mold) through the teleportation circle. Result, expodential growth of the brown mold until it effectively kills the star or at least blocks stellar radiation from it, leading to permenant iceages for any planets in the system.

So, there are my ideas for WMD's not based on magical priniciples. Anyone have other ideas?

[Chilingsworth]

As a variant, you could load the box with flasks of acid to deal 100 points of acid damage for everything in the original 3x3 area, but this would be more expensive (but still affordable, especially if you made the acid yourself) and couldn't be used to destroy the world outright.

[kestrel404]

Poorly written monster is poorly written.

No GM worth their salt is going to let a spec of slime mold devour the sun (at least not without having the entire plot of the game revolve around the idea).

Also, because the way the brown mold works, they would consume all of the heat from the activating alchemist's fires as they activate - it consumes NEARBY heat. By my reading, it would double in size once (same as if you cast a fireball at it).

[lunar2]

orc fighter 2, stoneblessed goliath 3, goliath barbarian 1, warhulk 10, hulking hurler 3
reckless rage feat.

base strength 18. racial +4 (22). levels +5 (27). warhulk +20 (47). rage +8 (55).

no magic at all (their may actually be some Su abilitities in there, but oh well.)


with a strength of 55 and the really throw anything hulking hurler ability, this guy gets to throw an item of up to 34,048 lbs. with the overburdened heave two handed throw trick, this weight doubles, to nearly 70,000 lbs. the meteor strike two handed throw trick adds doubel your strength bonus to the damage.

in a single attack with a 70,000 lb object, you deal 353D6+44 points of damage, or an average of 1,279 points of damage per attack. did i mention that you do get 2 attacks per round? for extra fun, throw a brown mold bomb that weighs 70,000 lbs.

[Lapak]

Poorly written monster is poorly written.

No GM worth their salt is going to let a spec of slime mold devour the sun (at least not without having the entire plot of the game revolve around the idea).

Also, because the way the brown mold works, they would consume all of the heat from the activating alchemist's fires as they activate - it consumes NEARBY heat. By my reading, it would double in size once (same as if you cast a fireball at it).Plus you run into the problems you usually run into when you try to combine D&D magic with real-world physics: most of the time, people include the real-world part up to where it lets them do something ridiculous but not any further. For example:

- the 'sun' does not have a surface to target; it's a constantly-roiling ball of nuclear fusion. Just like you couldn't target the surface of a Wall of Fire, you can't target the 'surface' of the sun. Even if you could, the ever-changing nature of the outer layers makes getting a description for your targeting to work off of difficult at best.
- the sun does not do fire damage. It is not made of fire. It is made of fusion-generated plasma, which is not fire. (Incidentally, if anything makes sense to qualify as having 'Searing Spell'-style ability to bypass Fire Immunity, this would be it.)
- brown mold is not immune to crushing damage, so gravity would draw even a large mass of brown mold to the center of the star in short order and crush it to death. Well, I expect it would actually be the other way around. At which point whatever was left would be more fuel for the nuclear furnace, so actually you would have made the star (very, very, very, very slightly) stronger.

[Morph Bark]

orc fighter 2, stoneblessed goliath 3, goliath barbarian 1, warhulk 10, hulking hurler 3
reckless rage feat.

base strength 18. racial +4 (22). levels +5 (27). warhulk +20 (47). rage +8 (55).

no magic at all (their may actually be some Su abilitities in there, but oh well.)


with a strength of 55 and the really throw anything hulking hurler ability, this guy gets to throw an item of up to 34,048 lbs. with the overburdened heave two handed throw trick, this weight doubles, to nearly 70,000 lbs. the meteor strike two handed throw trick adds doubel your strength bonus to the damage.

in a single attack with a 70,000 lb object, you deal 353D6+44 points of damage, or an average of 1,279 points of damage per attack. did i mention that you do get 2 attacks per round? for extra fun, throw a brown mold bomb that weighs 70,000 lbs.

He throws the bombs at other planets. He'll be dubbed the Planetkiller. He'll cause world wars. He'll require the unification of gods, Bloodstorm Blades and Artificers to take him down.

[Darrin]

Blister Oil Bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12138520&postcount=94) is fairly cheap. Also non-magical, if you don't include the sovereign glue.

[Chilingsworth]

Poorly written monster is poorly written.

No GM worth their salt is going to let a spec of slime mold devour the sun (at least not without having the entire plot of the game revolve around the idea).

Also, because the way the brown mold works, they would consume all of the heat from the activating alchemist's fires as they activate - it consumes NEARBY heat. By my reading, it would double in size once (same as if you cast a fireball at it).

Of course the kill the sun idea would never work. The point was to describe the most possible damage I could imagine doing with the stuff. Also, if the multiple alchemist's fires (and by extention, the lamp oils) were treated as a single instance of damage, then the basic weapon becomes much more effective. I.e. it deals an actual 100 points of damage, rather than 100 instances of one point each. With that ruling, anything that isn't outright immune would be hurt pretty badly. Also, since it's splash damage, there would be no save, and no SR because it's non magical. On the other hand, the mold might prevent the alchemist's fire from igniting the lamp oil, in which case the stuff would only expand to 2^20 squares.

I should note that I have no intention of using this in a game. The character I was playing when I thought it up (actually because of IC experiences oddly enough,) wants to conquer a nation, not turn it into Moldtopia. And I doubt a set of circumstances which could believeably lead to the idea would come up with any of my future characters.

Incidentally, when I asked my DM what would happen if the campaign world's star was infected with brown mold, he said "Yeah, that would require divine intervention to fix."

[candycorn]

orc fighter 2, stoneblessed goliath 3, goliath barbarian 1, warhulk 10, hulking hurler 3
reckless rage feat.

base strength 18. racial +4 (22). levels +5 (27). warhulk +20 (47). rage +8 (55).

no magic at all (their may actually be some Su abilitities in there, but oh well.)


with a strength of 55 and the really throw anything hulking hurler ability, this guy gets to throw an item of up to 34,048 lbs. with the overburdened heave two handed throw trick, this weight doubles, to nearly 70,000 lbs. the meteor strike two handed throw trick adds doubel your strength bonus to the damage.

in a single attack with a 70,000 lb object, you deal 353D6+44 points of damage, or an average of 1,279 points of damage per attack. did i mention that you do get 2 attacks per round? for extra fun, throw a brown mold bomb that weighs 70,000 lbs.

Ummm, hate to burst a bubble, but...


In order to use any of these abilities, the hulking hurler must grip the weapon or improvised weapon in two hands and throw it as a full-round action.

So, to use either of these abilities, you must take a full round action. This precludes making 2 attacks per round. Especially when using Overburdened heave, which only allows the throwing of one weapon that is 2 size categories larger OR weighs up to his medium load. This means that for you to use the medium load restriction, the weapon must either:
1) be appropriate size for use as a 2 handed weapon by someone of your size category and weigh no more than your medium load, or

2) be appropriate for use as a 2 handed weapon by someone 2 size categories larger than you and also weigh no more than your light load.

The size of the rock, in that case, would be, by the SRD:
A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.

So, if you count as Large, then the improvised weapon can either be Large and weigh up to medium load
or
Gargantuan and weigh up to light load

While I believe you can likely get an object the size of a 10x10x10 space to be about 70,000 pounds, it'll need to be extraordinarily dense. Something the density of water would be less than 63,000 pounds in that space. Something as dense as granite would easily be able to do it, clocking in at about 7.51 feet cubed for 70,000 pounds.

However, getting fancy with glass, and acid, and packing, and such? Drastically lowers the density. Acid is probably near the density of water. Glass to hold it? Oddly, only slightly less than granite. Packing? To appropriately cushion, so as to prevent accidental breakage, it can't be dense at all. Certainly no more than half water (modern packing foam is around 22% the density of water). Since you need something about 12% denser than water to meet the size requirement, you'll likely not be able to use an acid bomb at full weight (since acid and packing material are likely the two most common materials in it).

[kestrel404]

Of course the kill the sun idea would never work. The point was to describe the most possible damage I could imagine doing with the stuff. Also, if the multiple alchemist's fires (and by extention, the lamp oils) were treated as a single instance of damage, then the basic weapon becomes much more effective. I.e. it deals an actual 100 points of damage, rather than 100 instances of one point each. With that ruling, anything that isn't outright immune would be hurt pretty badly. Also, since it's splash damage, there would be no save, and no SR because it's non magical. On the other hand, the mold might prevent the alchemist's fire from igniting the lamp oil, in which case the stuff would only expand to 2^20 squares.

I realize that this is just a though experiment. I'm disagreeing with your interpretation of how this works by RAW. From the description of Brown Mold:

Fire brought within 5 feet of brown mold causes it to instantly double in size.
It says nothing about the intensity, duration or quantity of that fire. By a straight reading of that, you can light all 100 flasks of oil and get precisely 2 5' sections of Brown Mold.
You can also dump the Brown Mold on the sun and get the same result.

That's why I'm saying that Brown Mold is poorly written - without anything to go on beyond what is written in the SRD (and I'm not aware of any other sources of info on the Brown Mold), your interpretation is not a valid reading of the Brown Mold.

Aside from that, let's say that you're right about each source of fire activating the brown mold's ability seperately (unlikely, but possible). At most, you're going to get a 15'x15' solid cube of brown mold, since beyond that the Brown Mold is too far from the source of the fire to double anymore. It has no ability to spread over the entire surface of the earth, it's just mold. The crate might cause an explosion (if the brown mold doesn't put it out), but that will, at most, spread the brown mold out in about a 30' radius (I can't be bothered to look up the explosions rules).

The box of oil & alchemist fire works just fine, though. It's just combining it with the Brown Mold that is dubious at best.

[rweird]

The problem with this is ANY cold damage destroys ALL of it, meaning that if outer space is ruled to do cold damage, or there is any arctic area in the world, that idea is kind of out of luck. The most it would do is knock out a bunch of low-level people (which still is useful) though it would be very quick to die.

[Chilingsworth]

The problem with this is ANY cold damage destroys ALL of it, meaning that if outer space is ruled to do cold damage, or there is any arctic area in the world, that idea is kind of out of luck. The most it would do is knock out a bunch of low-level people (which still is useful) though it would be very quick to die.

Hmm, I thought cold damage only killed the parts of it that were directly affected? Also, if any part of a patch of the stuff is subjected to fire damage, the entire thing doubles in size.

But, if cold damage can instant-kill the entire patch, that actually makes the stuff more useful, since it would be far easier to dispose of once it did its work.

From the SRD:

Brown Mold (CR 2)

Brown mold feeds on warmth, drawing heat from anything around it. It normally comes in patches 5 feet in diameter, and the temperature is always cold in a 30-foot radius around it. Living creatures within 5 feet of it take 3d6 points of nonlethal cold damage. Fire brought within 5 feet of brown mold causes it to instantly double in size. Cold damage, such as from a cone of cold, instantly destroys it.

From the italicized bit, it appears fire will indeed double the size of an entire patch. From the bolded bit, it also appears that cold damage will also kill it off completely. Incidentally, there's no mention of the mold puting a fire out. Of course, if it did negate fire damage, then one might be able to make themselves immune to fire by keeping some onhand. (They would need immunity to nonlethal damage or protection from cold, though.)

[TopCheese]

The thing about space doing cold damage.. Should only apply when not in direct "line of effect" with the Sun. Even on earth's moon here in reality it gets crazy hot since there is nothing blocking the sun's rays (and crazy cold when not in the sun).

Heck look at mercury surface's, in the day it is 800 degrees F, but at night (when being blocked) it is -300 degrees F. So as long as you didn't have a large mass blocking the mold from the sun you could quite literally chuck it and it wouldn't take the cold damage from space.

Now being in a vacumme may cause problems but there won't be any cold damage.

[Andreaz]

Now being in a vacumme may cause problems but there won't be any cold damage.Other than fluid evaporation, you don't really lose temperature in the vacuum but with irradiation, which may (and with creatures often will) take days or weeks to get significantly chiller.
As said, being near a star (near being anything under a hundred million kilometers) will heat you up significantly since you no longer have several dozen kilometers of air blocking the rays for you.


Also it's not "vacumme" >.> It's vacuum.

[rweird]

The size it would grow to means that it would almost instantly take cold damage from something and destroy it [a mid-level wizard could identify it and cast ray of frost to destroy all of it, someone happens to cast a cold spell at that time] (unless your on the plane of fire or something). I don't think it would be all that effective considering it would be one round that deals 3d6 non-lethal cold damage, and it would die within a minute if it reached the arctic, before that if anyone recognizes it. Still it sounds like some sort of thing that someone might use to neutralize an army or a city, just so they can get past them or get into the vault to seize the artifact.

[XmonkTad]

Does Bubs the Commoner's battletitan count?

[TuggyNE]

The thing about space doing cold damage.. Should only apply when not in direct "line of effect" with the Sun. Even on earth's moon here in reality it gets crazy hot since there is nothing blocking the sun's rays (and crazy cold when not in the sun).

Heck look at mercury surface's, in the day it is 800 degrees F, but at night (when being blocked) it is -300 degrees F. So as long as you didn't have a large mass blocking the mold from the sun you could quite literally chuck it and it wouldn't take the cold damage from space.

Since the mold itself would be a large mass, you'd be taking cold damage on one side, and bam.

Consider that the various manned space missions generally set up steady rotations to ensure that the sun would affect all sides relatively evenly, since the side not in the sun was significantly chilled.

[lunar2]

Ummm, hate to burst a bubble, but...



So, to use either of these abilities, you must take a full round action. This precludes making 2 attacks per round. Especially when using Overburdened heave, which only allows the throwing of one weapon that is 2 size categories larger OR weighs up to his medium load. This means that for you to use the medium load restriction, the weapon must either:
1) be appropriate size for use as a 2 handed weapon by someone of your size category and weigh no more than your medium load, or

2) be appropriate for use as a 2 handed weapon by someone 2 size categories larger than you and also weigh no more than your light load.

The size of the rock, in that case, would be, by the SRD:

So, if you count as Large, then the improvised weapon can either be Large and weigh up to medium load
or
Gargantuan and weigh up to light load

While I believe you can likely get an object the size of a 10x10x10 space to be about 70,000 pounds, it'll need to be extraordinarily dense. Something the density of water would be less than 63,000 pounds in that space. Something as dense as granite would easily be able to do it, clocking in at about 7.51 feet cubed for 70,000 pounds.

However, getting fancy with glass, and acid, and packing, and such? Drastically lowers the density. Acid is probably near the density of water. Glass to hold it? Oddly, only slightly less than granite. Packing? To appropriately cushion, so as to prevent accidental breakage, it can't be dense at all. Certainly no more than half water (modern packing foam is around 22% the density of water). Since you need something about 12% denser than water to meet the size requirement, you'll likely not be able to use an acid bomb at full weight (since acid and packing material are likely the two most common materials in it).

yeah, missed the full round action part. still one attack per round at over 1,200 damage isn't bad. i didn't even get into belt of giant strength, manual of gainful exercise, that last class level i somehow missed (bear warrior for more strength, probably.), enlarge person, or other stuff to either make yourself bigger or make yourself stronger. there's also a feat in one of the books that doubles your carrying capacity. we can easily get over 400,000 lbs. with some serious optimization. forget a box of acid, let's just throw a +5 colossal adamantine boulder.

but yeah, we were going minimally magical, so the Orc Siege Engine has to operate at less than half power.

[Darth Stabber]

yeah, missed the full round action part. still one attack per round at over 1,200 damage isn't bad. i didn't even get into belt of giant strength, manual of gainful exercise, that last class level i somehow missed (bear warrior for more strength, probably.), enlarge person, or other stuff to either make yourself bigger or make yourself stronger. there's also a feat in one of the books that doubles your carrying capacity. we can easily get over 400,000 lbs. with some serious optimization. forget a box of acid, let's just throw a +5 colossal adamantine boulder.

but yeah, we were going minimally magical, so the Orc Siege Engine has to operate at less than half power.

Bear warrior wouldn't help. At level 1 it makes you black bear, and thus medium. You need at least 5 levels to get large (brown bear).

To make a magic weapon you need a masterwork weapon, what constitutes a masterwork bolder? And that seems like an aweful waste of adamantine.

[docnessuno]

Mixing real-world pgysics and D&D can lead to abominations (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Neutronium_golem) [Warning: foul language]

[TopCheese]

The size it would grow to means that it would almost instantly take cold damage from something and destroy it [a mid-level wizard could identify it and cast ray of frost to destroy all of it, someone happens to cast a cold spell at that time] (unless your on the plane of fire or something). I don't think it would be all that effective considering it would be one round that deals 3d6 non-lethal cold damage, and it would die within a minute if it reached the arctic, before that if anyone recognizes it. Still it sounds like some sort of thing that someone might use to neutralize an army or a city, just so they can get past them or get into the vault to seize the artifact.

Sooo take it to the plane of fire and what happens exactly?

[Chilingsworth]

Sooo take it to the plane of fire and what happens exactly?

Isn't the plane of fire an infinate plane? If it is, the mold could grow there forever, or at least until one of the very rare spellcasters with cold spells there finds it.

Also, sounds like a great way to piss off the Efreet.

[rweird]

Sooo take it to the plane of fire and what happens exactly?

On the plane of fire, there probably wouldn't be some place that would deal cold damage and destroy it, so it would be up to adventures or whatnot, though pretty much any wizard could get ray of frost.

[BowStreetRunner]

Werewolf with class levels in Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker/War Hulk...just let him loose and watch the show. :smallcool:

[Darth Stabber]

Werewolf with class levels in Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker/War Hulk...just let him loose and watch the show. :smallcool:

Ogres and minotaurs are better suited to this type of work.

[BowStreetRunner]

Ogres and minotaurs are better suited to this type of work.

Ogres and Minotaurs aren't contagious.

[Darth Stabber]

Ogres and Minotaurs aren't contagious.

Yeah, but a frenzied berzerker is highly unlikely to catch lycanthropy, fort save higher than the GDP of some small countries and all.

[BowStreetRunner]

Yeah, but a frenzied berzerker is highly unlikely to catch lycanthropy, fort save higher than the GDP of some small countries and all.

Not an afflicted Lycanthrope (they can't pass on the curse anyway) an inherited Lycanthrope.

[Tokuhara]

All I must say is Iron Heart Surge. The sun giving you dehydration? Iron Heart Surge it away. The moon making the lycanthropes come out? Iron Heart Surge. Lava burning you in the dungeon? Iron Heart Surge the Planet. Nonmagical wmd.

[BowStreetRunner]

All I must say is Iron Heart Surge. The sun giving you dehydration? Iron Heart Surge it away. The moon making the lycanthropes come out? Iron Heart Surge. Lava burning you in the dungeon? Iron Heart Surge the Planet. Nonmagical wmd.

one spell, effect, or other condition currently affecting you and with a duration of 1 or more rounds

[ericgrau]

Not only is the redoubling of brown mold questionable, but dealing more damage than total immersion in lava is questionable.

Another possible interpretation is that you are "on fire" with mundane fire for 1d6 fire damage per round, but it lasts much longer and spreads over a much larger area than just one person. The brown mold doubles once and stays that way.

Both are possible explanations of what the RAW means, and neither is any less RAW than the other. Only one is playable.

You might also ad hoc (not RAW) the fire bomb as being like lava, or 20d6. But this would require at least enough to submerge someone which could take several hundred or thousand pint flasks.

[Darth Stabber]

Not an afflicted Lycanthrope (they can't pass on the curse anyway) an inherited Lycanthrope.

Natural lycanthropes are just as contagious as per the SRD. And even if they weren't, you're switching your argument, since your earlier comment was that ogre and minotaur weren't contagious.

[BowStreetRunner]

Natural lycanthropes are just as contagious as per the SRD. And even if they weren't, you're switching your argument, since your earlier comment was that ogre and minotaur weren't contagious.

"Afflicted lycanthropes cannot pass on the curse of lycanthropy." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm)

The entire point is that anything he doesn't kill he turns into another lycanthrope. An no, people bit by an ogre or minotaur don't turn into ogres or minotaurs.

[Darth Stabber]

"Afflicted lycanthropes cannot pass on the curse of lycanthropy." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm)

The entire point is that anything he doesn't kill he turns into another lycanthrope. An no, people bit by an ogre or minotaur don't turn into ogres or minotaurs.

Wow I did not ever catch that, i've been running it wrong forever. It would make more sense the other way around, ie only afflicted werewolves are contagious, and natural can't. Either way, I have something else to add to my list of house rules now.

[lunar2]

Bear warrior wouldn't help. At level 1 it makes you black bear, and thus medium. You need at least 5 levels to get large (brown bear).

To make a magic weapon you need a masterwork weapon, what constitutes a masterwork bolder? And that seems like an aweful waste of adamantine.

bear warrior's bear transformation replaces the +4 strength +4 con of rage. a goliath barbarian's mountain rage extra effects still apply, so you become a large black bear.

@boulder. a masterwork adamantine boulder is a perfectly round, perfectly forged ball of adamantine 30 ft. across. i really should have said ball instead of boulder, but boulder sounds cooler.

[Morph Bark]

All I must say is Iron Heart Surge. The sun giving you dehydration? Iron Heart Surge it away. The moon making the lycanthropes come out? Iron Heart Surge. Lava burning you in the dungeon? Iron Heart Surge the Planet. Nonmagical wmd.

You take away the effect on you, not the cause. If you use IHS to shake off a spell that made you sickened you're not doing anything to the wizard that cast it.

Well, not at the time at least. Right afterwards you'd obviously be cutting him into very small pieces. :smallamused:

[Darth Stabber]

bear warrior's bear transformation replaces the +4 strength +4 con of rage. a goliath barbarian's mountain rage extra effects still apply, so you become a large black bear.

@boulder. a masterwork adamantine boulder is a perfectly round, perfectly forged ball of adamantine 30 ft. across. i really should have said ball instead of boulder, but boulder sounds cooler.

Even if that is how it works (and I don't think it works that way, but I don't have CWar to verify) you'd still need hands to pick up said ball or boulder. So you'd a pair gloves of man bare minimum (yes I avoided the stupid obvious pun).

[TopCheese]

Even if that is how it works (and I don't think it works that way, but I don't have CWar to verify) you'd still need hands to pick up said ball or boulder. So you'd a pair gloves of man bare minimum (yes I avoided the stupid obvious pun).

You need a pair of gloves called the "gloves of the man-bear-pig" which will give you all the benefits of bears, man, and pigs!

I'm super serial...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&site=&source=hp&q=man+bear+pig&oq=man+bea&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.19353.23711.0.26158.10.8.0.2.2.0.462.20 04.0j1j6j0j1.8.0.les%3Bernk_timediscountc..0.0...1 ac.1.jnMXZr4Eo14#miuv=0

[Darth Stabber]

You need a pair of gloves called the "gloves of the man-bear-pig" which will give you all the benefits of bears, man, and pigs!

I'm super serial...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&site=&source=hp&q=man+bear+pig&oq=man+bea&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.19353.23711.0.26158.10.8.0.2.2.0.462.20 04.0j1j6j0j1.8.0.les%3Bernk_timediscountc..0.0...1 ac.1.jnMXZr4Eo14#miuv=0

I award you one internet good sir!

[lunar2]

Even if that is how it works (and I don't think it works that way, but I don't have CWar to verify) you'd still need hands to pick up said ball or boulder. So you'd a pair gloves of man bare minimum (yes I avoided the stupid obvious pun).


Bear Form (Su): A bear warrior can transform into a bear
(similar to the polymorph spell) while in a rage or frenzy. His
only limit on the number of times per day he can assume a
bear form is the number of times per day he enters a rage or
frenzy, and the bear warrior returns to his own form once
the rage or frenzy ends. The bear warrior retains the normal
+2 bonus on Will saves and –2 penalty to Armor Class while
raging, [b]but the ability score bonuses granted by rage or
frenzy are replaced by Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution
bonuses appropriate to the bear form taken (see below). As
normal for polymorph, the bear warrior gains the bear form’s
physical qualities (including size, movement, natural armor
bonus, natural weapons, space, and reach)[b], as well as any
extra ordinary special attacks possessed by the form (such
as improved grab in the brown bear or dire bear form). The
transformation lasts for the duration of the rage or frenzy.

relevant text bolded. the bear warrior bear form only calls out the strength and con bonuses to be replaced. it does say that you gain the bear's size, but mountain rage says you become large. since mountain rage's size increase is not explicitly replaced, you still gain it. you also still gain the extra +2 to strength that mountain rage grants, because that explicitly stacks with other forms of rage.

i guess it is up to the individual DM which order to apply the size changes in, but i would definitely allow the size increase, since that is in addition to the normal effects of rage, not a replacement of those effects.

that said, i know the FAQ (for what that's worth) says that you apply effects in the order that is most beneficial unless stated otherwise (specific example was practiced spellcaster and healing domain).