Skill Monkying: Factotum or Beguiler

[Reavent]

So as the title says, I'm thinking of making a skill monkey type character. I looked at the Changeling Rogue Substitution Levels and I plan on taking the 1st level at Level 1 (10 + int x 4 skill points at 1st ftw) So I will be playing a Changeling (As a roleplaying hook I plan on having him stay in one form and when he wants to change he waves his "Wand of Disguise Self" and changes). But after I'm not sure if I should go into Factotum for the versatility or Beguiler for the enchantment and illusion spells. I have read through both but I'm not sure what would be better so I'm asking the playground for your wise opinion. Which would you go for?

Note, with Factotum I don't plan on using any of those obscure skills from splatbooks that no one knows about, though Iaijutsu Focus may be ok with my DM, I'd have to ask him.

[Keltaris]

What about continuing Rogue?

You'd need to dip somewhere to get trapfinding, but with the Changeling SubLevels you'd have plenty of skill points, so you could easily cover the skill monkey role.

If that isn't an option I'd go for Factotum. I've never played it, but it looks great.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Meh, skip 'em both. Put in 4 more levels of rogue then go into the Chamelon PrC in Races of Destiny.

[Reavent]

Is Changeling able to qualify for the Chameleon Prestige Class?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Is Changeling able to qualify for the Chameleon Prestige Class?

Yup. It's right there in the adaption section. Changelings should be allowed to take Able learner and enter chameleon.

It is, incidentally, one of my favorite race/class combos, since you can basically be a different character every day.

[Torvon]

Didn't play that many DnD characters, but played both Beguiler and Factotum. Both are extremely versatile and very very cool classes with plenty of possibilities and flexibility.

Can't go wrong with either of them (Beguiler is nice and balanced either way, Factotum can be crappy to broken depending on your feat selection and min maxing)

[Randomguy]

Multiclass Factotum/Beguiler! :smalltongue:

It depends on whether you prefer casting or melee. Casting ==> Beguiler, Melee ==> Factotum. I'd also have to say that Factotums are a tiny bit better at skillmonkying, since they can get class level to a skill check, and they have all the class skills. All of them.

[Torvon]

Multiclass Factotum/Beguiler! :smalltongue:

It depends on whether you prefer casting or melee. Casting ==> Beguiler, Melee ==> Factotum. I'd also have to say that Factotums are a tiny bit better at skillmonkying, since they can get class level to a skill check, and they have all the class skills. All of them.

They also get their INT modifier on ALL strength and dex skill checks, including checks like initiative. When you gain that level (I think level 3), and you have an INT of 20, you get like ... 30 skill points for free or something ;)

[Gwendol]

Is the beguiler really a skillmonkey?
Continue with rogue, followed by chameleon, as Kelb suggested.

[Philistine]

Is the beguiler really a skillmonkey?
Continue with rogue, followed by chameleon, as Kelb suggested.

Isn't it? In practice, a Beguiler will have more skills than a Rogue (or anything else short of a Factotum - 6+Int with Int primary outstrips 8+Int with Int secondary), chosen from a good list. Plus Trapfinding. If Beguiler isn't a skillmonkey, then Rogue doesn't qualify either.

Now it's true that Beguiler isn't just a skillmonkey, but that doesn't appear to be what you were asking.

[Gwendol]

Actually, it is. With their spellcasting beguilers really becomes skillful sorcerers with a focused spell list.

[Sylvos330]

Chosing between the two I'd say Factotum but besides that I would agree with the others in going Rogue into Chameleon.

[XmonkTad]

CA Ninja! :smalltongue:
In all seriousness, if you're doing a social skill focus, go beguiler. If this is for dungeon delving then factotum. But I if you're not sure and want some combat utility at low levels, I vote rogue.
Sometimes a well placed spell can obviate the need for a skill check, and every skillmonkey but ninja and scout can do at least a little magic (or UMD).
Also depends if you're planning on going chameleon or not. Then factotum becomes the top choice.

[Philistine]

Actually, it is. With their spellcasting beguilers really becomes skillful sorcerers with a focused spell list.

I would instead describe Beguilers as magically-enhanced skillmonkeys, with spells that augment and expand on the suite of abilities expected of a Bard or Rogue. Though it sounds like we agree on the basics but differ on emphasis, with you playing up the casting aspect to make them a Sorc-minus, and me focusing on the skilled aspect to make them a Rogue-plus.

[TopCheese]

Holy crap for some reason I always thought Changeling was a LA +1 ...

Changeling Chameleon sounds like a great idea, new PC each day and all...

Where can I find the Changeling substitution levels?

[pHalcyon]

Where can I find the Changeling substitution levels?

Races of Eberron.

[Darth Stabber]

I would go factotum8/chameleon 10/incarnate or totemist2. The rogue sublevel is nice, but I would rather pick up cunning surge @8, and then move into chameleon. Cunning surge is that good, worth picking up a font of inspiration or two while your at it. Yeah the delay of chameleon hurts a bit, but telling the action economy to go sit in the corner and cry is bound to have a price. I have the incarnate or totemist tacked on at the end for the simple reason that the too are classes that are easily reconfigurable, and add nice abilities for a skill monkey (totemist is a bit more combat oriented, but at level2 it is about the same for skill monkeying, though the two classes are good at modifying different skills).