"Modernizing" an Evil D&D Nation

[Chilingsworth]

Hey Playgrounders,

So, in the campaign I'm currently playing, the PC's are a group of Asmodus cultists seeking to overthrow a Tyr-Worshiping theocracy. (The game isn't taking place in FR, but our version of Tyr is fairly similiar to the FR version, I think.)

In any case, I'm looking forward to the endgame and epilogue. I'd like to posistion my character (if not as the head of state) as the architect of the new nation's military and/or economic apperatus.

So far, I'm thinking of:

Establishing a DARPA-like organization to perform (mostly) military R&D
Insituting universal conscription (of both men and women) with the majority of the population acting as reseveists (ala Israel)
When conscripted, people will be :
- implanted with a necrotic cyst (for use in maintaining control, and also as a way to use our soilders as scrying beacons to target teleportation circles for invasions/resupply)
- have a picture and a preserved hair sample filed along with personal information, to facilitate traditional scrying
- be issued identification papers
- taught to read and write if they are not already litterate,
- screened for varrious apptitudes, with individuals showing promise in valued areas directed to an apporpriate training academy
- given at least basic combat training

Reservists would spend one year in the army recieving basic training and would practice regularly when returned to their homes. Weapons would be kept in a central stockpile in each community rather than being retained by individuals. Those wishing to become professional soildiers would be allowed to do so, assuming they have an adequate level of ability

There would be a robust (state-run) education system, centering on religious education in childhood, but branching out into many diverse fields by early adulthood (and conscription.) Of particular note would be the academies for spellcasting arts, the graduates of which would be required to join the military (in an arrangement similiar to the State Alchemists of Full Metal Alchemist: they would recieve official certification, rank and status, a research budget and access to facilities, and significant privilages in exchange for supplying items at a reduced rate to the State, sharing any results of their research with the State and undertaking research projects on its behalf, and serving in wartime.) Those who refuse would face severe punishment.

Communications would be heavily invested in, with wide-spread use of items such as farspeaking amulets and sending stones to link ground units with their support and to link both far-flung agents and distant settlemts with the relevant authorities.

The army would have dedicated combat engineers to build field fortifications and overcome obstructions and enemy defenses. Also scouts, medics and other magical support. In addition, there would be an airforce composed, perhaps, of riders of giant eagle zombies or other flying creatures.

The dead would be given a proper farewell, then raised as undead apropriate to their abilities in life and the needs of the State.

Efforts would be made to supply even ordinary troops with extensive support, magical of course, but also nonmagical. For example, standard issue gear would include alchemical tools like tanglefoot bags, antitoxin, and healer's kits (which all soildiers would be trained to use to at least some minimal extent.) Also, the air corps would drop large crates of alchemist fire and other nasty substances on foes to kill or at least soften them up.

The place would definately be Evil, but it wouldn't be a horrific place to live for those who cooperated. The goals of the State would be to ensure its own survival and to expand. Niether of these goals are advanced by being wontonly cruel to your own citizens.

So, does what I describe sound like it could be effective? And how might I improve on it?

EDIT:

Also, does anyone know any good books for me to draw inspiration from? I've already read Sun Tzu's Art of War and have Ordered a Copy of Maciavelli's volume of the same title. I've also read The Prince. Lastly, I got some of my ideas from Harry Turtledove's World at War series (basically a magical world equivilant to ww2.)

EDIT2: Some Background on the nation and my character

A little background:

The nation of Arafel was once a polytheistic nation where many diverse gods were honored. So long as their churches didn't do anything to disturb the peace, they were left alone and allowed to practice openly. Then, the half-elven royal family died in a tragic accident. Siezing this opportunity, the Church of Tyr took power and officially banned all other religions. They then insituted a purge of Asmodeus worshipers in particular. Also, life for the nonhuman (or at least, not fully human) citizens of the country became harder.

Fast forward sixty years. A group of the worst criminals in the country break out of (and raze) its most secure prision with the aid of an agent of the last surviving Asmodean cardinal in the country. In payment for their freedom (and saving most of them from truly gruesome executions and torture) they sign pacts to serve the cardinal and through him Asmodeus to reforge the country into an Asmodean theocracy.

My character's personal backstory:

Carlin was orphaned at a young age, but was fortunate enough to find shelter in a truly good orphanage. He spent the next fourteen years there, since as a half-elf noone wanted to adopt him.
He was soon to reach an age when the orphanage would help him find an apprenticeship in a trade when the Tyrans came. The founder of the orphanage had been accused of Asmodeus worship. As such, the orphanage was to be closed down and its residents to be sent to other orphanages. The captain of the contingent sent to carry this out acted on his own authority to cast Carlin and the few other demihuman residents out onto the street.
Once on the street, Carlin was taken in by (what he thought was) a kindly old wizard. Unfortunately, while the wizard did train him in the craft, the man was anything but kindly. After years of abuse, Carlin killed the man in his sleep and fled.

Fast Forward about fifteen years:

Carlin is a petty conman and ocasional womanizer who uses his magic to aid in his cons and in seducing recalcitraint lasses (not that he needs to do the latter often.) Unfortunately for him, he seduces the wrong girl. She turns out to be the daughter of a well-placed official. As a result, the charges against him are trumped up. He is charged with slavery and tortured into pleading guilty. The sentence for this crime in Tyran Arafel: Death by immolation. He is sent to Branderscar Prision to await the fulfillment of the sentence. There he is branded as an ireedemable chained up in a cell with other prisioners awaiting their fates.

[DeltaEmil]

There's this undead-ruled nation in the setting of Eberron called Karnath, I believe. It would be most similar to your evil empire that uses living and unliving soldiers and is highly militaristic.

[TroubleBrewing]

How far towards the Tippyverse are you willing to get?

[Chilingsworth]

How far towards the Tippyverse are you willing to get?

Not very far. (which is why I'm even bothering with things like alchemical items, particularly use of acid and/or alchemist's fire and lamp oil en masse.) I don't think my DM is fond of Tippyverses. In any case, I wont have much control over the final nature of the nation. All I can try to do is establish some institutions and hope they survive into the epilouge.

[BowStreetRunner]

You should institute a tiered, non-hereditary social rank system.

The middle rank would be normal subjects - as long as they obey the laws and pay their taxes, they have a reasonable degree of freedom to pursue whatever goals they like.

Those who fail to obey the laws or are unable to pay their taxes become wards of the state. They are effectively slaves placed under supervision of other more capable supervisors. These may be employees of the state assigned to oversee a group of wards or private contractors who have purchased the right to utilize the wards in their private enterprises. Once a ward pays off his debt to the state he can become a subject again.

At the top of the hierarchy would be the citizens - people whose service to the state has gone above and beyond merely fulfilling the duties of obedience and paying of taxes. Citizens would be able to vote, hold public office (including officer ranks in the military) and have various other privileges.

Note that a citizen who breaks a major law might lose their status, even becoming a ward, while a ward could clear their debt and work their way up to citizen status. Such a merit-based system, complete with rewards and punishments, is central to the concept of ranking the population by value to the state.

[Kavurcen]

For outside of game perspective, the Starship Troopers Earth could probably give some inspiration especially on the cultural and social flavor of your society.

For real world examples (and I'm hoping dearly this doesn't get taken out of context) Nazi Germany sounds like a pretty good source to draw upon for your environment. I'm definitely not calling your nation Nazi, but what you've described is very state socialist and Nazi Germany is a particularly flavorful example of that.

And on the topic of mandatory military service, I find Switzerland interesting in that regard just because it's rarely given as an example of such, and integrates a state militia into a modern society in very cool ways.

[SilverLeaf167]

For some weird reason, the part about conscription and reservism reminded of my home country, Finland. :smalltongue:
Luckily, the rest isn't really similar at all (education is free though), and even mandatory military service (which lasts just about a year) can be replaced with civil service at a school, hospital, library or such. This civil service is a couple of months longer though.

Ok, that was just off-topic, let me think of something relevant to say...

Oh yes, given that the state controls all mages, likely including the church, and uses so much magic items, I think the life of the average commoner would be quite mundane even in this apparently high-magic setting. This would also be rather useful for the state: if weapons are restricted and magic is under the state's control, rebellion is quite impossible, especially if you also limit flow of information from the outside world and otherwise censor what the people get to know.

Just to say, I'm glad someone realizes the typical over-the-top evil nation is quite stupid.

[Slipperychicken]

For your education system, be sure to separate children from their families in the state schools so they don't develop pesky familial bonds which might distract them from their all-consuming love for the state. If you have those family members executed for heresy treason, you don't want their kids getting all whiny about it. Because come on, you're an authoritarian regime, the only family you need is Big Brother.

It might be expensive, but keep the kids fed healthily, and make them do daily army-style group drills/activities outside where they can get tons of sunlight and physical activity. Of course, you'll include military training in case you need these kids fighting once they're all grown up. Not only will the citizens of tomorrow not look pale, they'll definitely turn out healthier. Higher physical stats should reflect this, and give you better melee.

You should put immense pressure on anyone with sufficient mental stats to become a spellcaster. Pay your spellcasters like doctors. Give them education in exchange for service. You want lots of casters, especially T1s. Keep these guys very close.

Look up Janissaries and Spartans. Have a similar "elite" program, where you take the most promising children (obviously you take their families out of the picture so they can only be loyal to you) and raise them practically from birth to become combat monsters. After this truly intense, all-consuming training, they should wind up around 3rd-5th level, with exactly the stats, skills, class levels, feats, and alignment you want them to have. These are your elite units, the optimized, the best of the best, so treat them well.

Religion will work against you. Outsiders can disagree with your policies. It is a source of ideology and legitimacy which does not come directly from the state, and that is bad because it can challenge the state. Instead, have everyone worship the ideals of the Party/State/Nation (look up the way Mao and other dictators were worshiped. Get this going for you). This will result in Ideal Clerics with exactly the domains you want them to have, channeling exactly the energy type you want, with the ACFs and feats you want, preaching the gospel of the State, and who will be highly loyal to you to matter what. This gives you yet another excuse to brainwash everyone, and generally be Evil.

Eliminate all things which can potentially challenge the state. Political parties are right out, all unions will be state-run, churches will be largely disposed of once you have state ideology as the dominant belief system. Grassroots political activists and critics should also be suppressed and replaced with brainwashed/loyal puppets. Insulting the state, or its officials in any way is to be punished with death or imprisonment. All specialists (doctors, lawyers, spellcasters, etc.) must register with the Party to receive licenses to work. Working without a license will result in re-education and probably death in your Russian/Nazi-inspired concentration/death camps. Not only will this stifle opposition, but it will be disgustingly Evil to boot, as you force your ideology down everyone's throats.

[toapat]

I think oppressing free speech would be a great way to start a rebellion, especially when you have stockpiles of arms and munitions at every town and villiage. One of the most powerful nations in one long story maintains control because when the resistance movement forms, they go find the leader, and put him in the seat of power. If he succeeds, he makes the region more profitable for you. if he fails, people shut up.

Philosophy is really the best method of control, while the glass ceiling effect can be a great motivator for productivity.

Teach people that they can get ahead in life by serving the state and by working more effectively, and actually reqard people for that. use education as based off of the commentary by Extra Credits and you increase your nation's standard array by 4 points.

the entire nation should be the definition of Xanatos Speed Chess. Where as Tippyverse forms because of an assumption (tippyverse is pretty much impossible because of something called a Technological Event Horizon. Thinking doesnt work in the ways that the assumptions of the tippyverse uses to create itself, and itself wouldnt work for a significant period of time.), this nation can form based on a logical asking questions of why people are reacting this way.

[Chilingsworth]

Some good ideas so far.

Unfortunately, the state religion (Asmodeus worship) is locked in, so I can't get rid of that.

According to my DM, the default epilogue will result in a nation that consists mostly of Humans, Orcs, and various undead. Ruled by a lich and using orc and undead hordes as major constiutents of its military.

A little background:

The nation of Arafel was once a polytheistic nation where many diverse gods were honored. So long as their churches didn't do anything to disturb the peace, they were left alone and allowed to practice openly. Then, the half-elven royal family died in a tragic accident. Siezing this opportunity, the Church of Tyr took power and officially banned all other religions. They then insituted a purge of Asmodeus worshipers in particular. Also, life for the nonhuman (or at least, not fully human) citizens of the country became harder.

Fast forward sixty years. A group of the worst criminals in the country break out of (and raze) its most secure prision with the aid of an agent of the last surviving Asmodean cardinal in the country. In payment for their freedom (and saving most of them from truly gruesome executions and torture) they sign pacts to serve the cardinal and through him Asmodeus to reforge the country into an Asmodean theocracy.

My character's personal backstory:

Carlin was orphaned at a young age, but was fortunate enough to find shelter in a truly good orphanage. He spent the next fourteen years there, since as a half-elf noone wanted to adopt him.
He was soon to reach an age when the orphanage would help him find an apprenticeship in a trade when the Tyrans came. The founder of the orphanage had been accused of Asmodeus worship. As such, the orphanage was to be closed down and its residents to be sent to other orphanages. The captain of the contingent sent to carry this out acted on his own authority to cast Carlin and the few other demihuman residents out onto the street.
Once on the street, Carlin was taken in by (what he thought was) a kindly old wizard. Unfortunately, while the wizard did train him in the craft, the man was anything but kindly. After years of abuse, Carlin killed the man in his sleep and fled.

Fast Forward about fifteen years:

Carlin is a petty conman and ocasional womanizer who uses his magic to aid in his cons and in seducing recalcitraint lasses (not that he needs to do the latter often.) Unfortunately for him, he seduces the wrong girl. She turns out to be the daughter of a well-placed official. As a result, the charges against him are trumped up. He is charged with slavery and tortured into pleading guilty. The sentence for this crime in Tyran Arafel: Death by immolation. He is sent to Branderscar Prision to await the fulfillment of the sentence. There he is branded as and ireedemable chained up in a cell with other prisioners awaiting their fates.

[Prime32]

There's this undead-ruled nation in the setting of Eberron called Karnath, I believe. It would be most similar to your evil empire that uses living and unliving soldiers and is highly militaristic.Not so much undead-ruled as undead-armed.

As long as the public is okay with skeletons/zombies walking the streets, the things you can achieve with an immortal workforce that doesn't need food, water or rest are incredible. Forget scaring the serfs into submission, just have undead do all the work for them and provide everything they need. Then point to other nations and how they still force most of their populations to do pointless backbreaking labour.
The only requirement is you must allow the state to have your body after you die (which should be presented as patriotic). Don't steal bodies from graveyards even if you need to, but deflect blame by letting the deceaseds' families sell them for perks (like, I dunno, immortality by becoming a sentient undead themselves).

Other nations can't invade you without the populace turning against them (and with all the free time they have, your population probably consists mostly of wizards). On the other hand, if they copy your undead-based economy then that gives you political influence over them.

[Slipperychicken]

The only requirement is you must allow the state to have your body after you die (which should be presented as patriotic).

Have an opt-out system for body-donation, where the government assumes all citizens will donate their bodies unless they specify otherwise. Make opting out an incredibly inconvenient process with a large fee attached (50gp should be enough to dissuade all but the richest in a D&D economy. Remember that you like the rich, because they lend your government money, and that makes the economy work). You can only opt out while you're still alive, by going to a town center in person and sitting there for hours filling out complicated forms.

Also have the boys in Propaganda write up some nonsense about people who opt out being 14.78% less likely to go to heaven after they die. Ideally, a non-government source should write this stuff.

[Darth Stabber]

In my current campaign setting there is a nation ruled by necromancers and a radical cult of we jas. It's a bit unstable with the rulership changing hands all the time due to constant revolution. The cult of we jas does most of the actual leading, providing stabilization to the point where the person holding the title really doesn't have to do any actual leading. Due to the high concentration of necromancy the negative energy plane touches on a temple of we jas. The profusion of negative energy has lead to the dead spontaneously as zombies, and they are herded up and used for repetitive menial labor, creating almost modern factories. The peasant class has been worked to death, and they are now the base of the robotic workforce. The merchant class brings in raw materials and the necromancers get the zombies to build finished goods. High level factory owners are able to raise undead, their underlings use command undead or rebuke/control undead to get the undead masses working. Dead bodies are bought up from grave robbers in other countries, giving them a growing workforce.

[Chilingsworth]

Have an opt-out system for body-donation, where the government assumes all citizens will donate their bodies unless they specify otherwise. Make opting out an incredibly inconvenient process with a large fee attached (50gp should be enough to dissuade all but the richest in a D&D economy. Remember that you like the rich, because they lend your government money, and that makes the economy work). You can only opt out while you're still alive, by going to a town center in person and sitting there for hours filling out complicated forms.

Also have the boys in Propaganda write up some nonsense about people who opt out being 14.78% less likely to go to heaven after they die. Ideally, a non-government source should write this stuff.

This sounds like a good idea. I'd add to it, though, by charging a significant fee for any form of body disposal other than undead creation. For example, 25 gp plus say 5 gp/year for burial (the 5gp/year would be for rental of a burial plot) with the bodies of those that fail to pay being exhumed and reanimated anyway. Cremation would be fairly cheap, though at just 100gp including the urn.

[Slipperychicken]

This sounds like a good idea. I'd add to it, though, by charging a significant fee for any form of body disposal other than undead creation. For example, 25 gp plus say 5 gp/year for burial (the 5gp/year would be for rental of a burial plot) with the bodies of those that fail to pay being exhumed and reanimated anyway. Cremation would be fairly cheap, though at just 100gp including the urn.

Well, people rent burial plots in real life, too. So I guess you could just give those unwanted bodies a "home" working for the state. Depends on what happens to souls of people made into in your setting.

Since you can't resurrect them, you can make especially unwanted people into undead (probably stuff them into a special prison/vault or something where they aren't likely to be destroyed) so only a massively-expensive True Res can raise them, as opposed to a relatively cheap Reincarnate or Raise Dead.

If you use the Necropolitan template from Libris Mortis, that could be a pretty sweet thing to throw on your most loyal followers through the Ritual of Crucimigration. It's probably pretty costly to do, so it would be a very high/special honor to retain your mental faculties after death.

I recommend cleaning up your undead prior to animating, like boiling off the corpses' flesh and maybe giving the bones some alchemical treatment so they don't end up stinking so much.

[Chilingsworth]

So, changing subject from government for a bit, what ideas do you guys have about technology?

So far I have:

- Use of flying creatures (probably mainly flying eagle zombies) as the basis of an airforce.
- Use of large boxes full of flasks of alchemist's fire, lamp oil, and/or acid as bombs.
- Training most soildiers in the use of the repeating heavy crossbow
- Mass use of communication devices such as farspeaking amulets and sending stones.
- As direct applications of the communications gear, integrating airborn units with my ground forces, and also maintaining a central command using a ww2 era British-style war room.
- Mass use of Necrotic Cysts for purposes of control and also to allow soildiers and agents to easily act as scrying beacons.
- Mass collection of identifying pictures and hair/nail samples to assist in traditional scrying.
- Use of Husk Globes in part of an archive system. (Would be backed up with traditional paper media.)
- Use of agents/soildiers as scrying beacons (see above) to target teleportation circles for major actions/resupply runs.
- A well trained engineering corps for use in times of both war and peace
- Well funded universities and research insitutes
- Use of the Amanuensis spell to mass produce books and other paper media, ranging from holy books to text books to propaganda posters to bureucratic forms.

Any glaringly obvious tricks I'm forgetting about? (note, I'm not looking for things that amount to "have wizards and clerics be wizards and clerics." Nor am I looking for anything too tippyverse-ish since my DM would just say "no" to that.

[Grollub]

A group of the worst criminals in the country break out of (and raze) its most secure prision with the aid of an agent of the last surviving Asmodean cardinal in the country. In payment for their freedom (and saving most of them from truly gruesome executions and torture) they sign pacts to serve the cardinal and through him Asmodeus to reforge the country into an Asmodean theocracy.

This sounds like the Way of the Wicked Adventure Path; with other details ( not quoted ) adapted to this DM's game.

[BowStreetRunner]

Constructs. Lots of Constructs. Think Genosha and Sentinels.

(Edit: The Sentinels and Genosha are an X-Men reference.)

[Menteith]

Create an institution of individuals who are skilled at performing sacrifices, and allow them to execute any criminals or prisoners not pressed into slavery? It allows for significantly more magic items (Allowing for creation of multiple Wands of Cure Light Wounds for every remote village, for example), and grants access to a wide range of multi-target buff spells.

[Chilingsworth]

This sounds like the Way of the Wicked Adventure Path; with other details ( not quoted ) adapted to this DM's game.

That's exactly what it is, used as a backstory for one of the nations my DM has in his world. I didn't mention it because I wasn't looking for spoilers to the campaign.


Create an institution of individuals who are skilled at performing sacrifices, and allow them to execute any criminals or prisoners not pressed into slavery? It allows for significantly more magic items (Allowing for creation of multiple Wands of Cure Light Wounds for every remote village, for example), and grants access to a wide range of multi-target buff spells.

Unfortunately, my DM doesn't use BOVD.


Constructs. Lots of Constructs. Think Genosha and Sentinels. I don't know... I'm not sure how cost effective constructs are. Also, don't most of them require their creators to control them directly? I'm sure I could find better uses for casters powerful enough to build useful constructs than leading them on the battlefield. Also, what's Genosha? (I assume the Sentinels are the ones from the Matrix.)

[Pokonic]

Idea: New advances in constructs, and tech in general, could be created by this new state.

How?

Boiling blood. As in, "Red Steam".

After all, blood is known for being a good carrier for magical energies. Necromancers, and by default a good handful of members from every class, have access to at least a few abilities relating to blood and is usage. Some specialize in such work, while others just learn blood-related feats of magic and might as part of there growth.

Fact is, in this little world, blood itself is far more pratical as a arcane focus than water, being somewhat connected with not only life itself, but with vitality and strength. Blood is power, and a vat full of Unholy blood pumped with foul magics could give it the "kick" needed to power,say, a primitive arcane elevator vi a twisted, magic-assisted hydraulic system.

Now, the question remains: if one could replace traditinal golems, or even create wonders of magic, with blood, where would it come from?

Simple, realy: regeneration spells exist for a reason. Bind the "battery" so that there is little chance of excape, perhapes take the time and make a zombie hand or two from said battery (he probably would not be neededing them). Set up a simple magical item that does three things: extract blood from the battery, send it off to be prepared by the chemomancers, and automaticly caste a healing spell on the battery. Rinse and repeat.

Naturaly, if the battery was a former criminal with people who care about it, they could buy the battery so that it's "decommissioned". Even if the battery would only last a year or so anyway, the goverment makes a profit and there's a new corpse to join the zombie labor force.



.....I feel sick.:smalleek:

[Chilingsworth]

Not a terrible idea. Doubt my DM would let me invent new creatures or technologies out of whole cloth, though. On the other hand, he might allow that to be a way of gathering sufficient blood to make bloodhulks. And maybe there are other already writen uses for blood I'm not immediately aware of? (the blood sorcerer class out of Oriental Adventures wouldn't fly, so that's out.)

Just a thought: Is the method for creating Karnathi Zombies and Skeletons writen down anywhere? Also, how does Karnath control them? Magically/via rebuking, or are they actually Karnathi citizens themselves?

[Darth Stabber]

.....I feel sick.:smalleek:

That is the feeling of your petty, useless notions of "morality" leaving you. Those guilt mechanisms are created by "good" outsiders to keeping from growing powerful enough to overthrow them. Morality and ethics are for serfs because they are to weak and blind to handle true power, not the leaders with the true vision to make this new nation great. By binding our hands with these outdated ideas, we are cutting off avenues to grow in power. We that have the power to make the world decide our own morality, those that do not bear the burden of the crown can never understand what it takes. Call me a wicked tyrant if you like, but I make sure the bloodfeuled demontrains run on time, and anyone get in the way they are more grist for the mill of progress.

When life gets tough, it's because the gods fear your progress. Mwah hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

[toapat]

Not a terrible idea. Doubt my DM would let me invent new creatures or technologies out of whole cloth, though. On the other hand, he might allow that to be a way of gathering sufficient blood to make bloodhulks. And maybe there are other already writen uses for blood I'm not immediately aware of? (the blood sorcerer class out of Oriental Adventures wouldn't fly, so that's out.)

Just a thought: Is the method for creating Karnathi Zombies and Skeletons writen down anywhere? Also, how does Karnath control them? Magically/via rebuking, or are they actually Karnathi citizens themselves?

Remember good sir, That a single fresh corpse is best used to animate four, not one, undead. Why waste an entire corpse on a single zombie, when you can form a husk, a congealed mass, a flesh golem, and a skeleton from the same set of remains?

[Chilingsworth]

Remember good sir, That a single fresh corpse is best used to animate four, not one, undead. Why waste an entire corpse on a single zombie, when you can form a husk, a congealed mass, a flesh golem, and a skeleton from the same set of remains?

Good idea, but don't flesh golems explicitly require whole body parts (i.e. including the bones)? Also, from several donor bodies?

As for the others, What are Husks and congealed masses (I'm guessing skins and congealed blood, respectively) and in which books can they be found?

[toapat]

Good idea, but don't flesh golems explicitly require whole body parts (i.e. including the bones)? Also, from several donor bodies?

As for the others, What are Husks and congealed masses (I'm guessing skins and congealed blood, respectively) and in which books can they be found?

congealed masses would be everything except bones, muscle, and skin

as far as books? Im assuming the husk got printed somewhere (although not under that name in my 10/1/07 Crystal Keep index), while a congealed mass could just be a retyped octopus.

[Chilingsworth]

congealed masses would be everything except bones, muscle, and skin

as far as books? Im assuming the husk got printed somewhere (although not under that name in my 10/1/07 Crystal Keep index), while a congealed mass could just be a retyped octopus.

There seem to be two creatures similiar to Husks in Libris Mortis: The forsaken shell, and the skin kite. The book doesn't describe how to make them though, other than that they both create spawn. If the congealed mass isn't a printed creature, then it doesn't exist in my DM's world.

[toapat]

There seem to be two creatures similiar to Husks in Libris Mortis: The forsaken shell, and the skin kite. The book doesn't describe how to make them though, other than that they both create spawn. If the congealed mass isn't a printed creature, then it doesn't exist in my DM's world.

Necromancy is very clean and efficient, just because WotC never was particularly good at promoting pragmatic necromancy doesnt mean you shouldnt be allowed to make your Zombie Roombas

[Chilingsworth]

Necromancy is very clean and efficient, just because WotC never was particularly good at promoting pragmatic necromancy doesnt mean you shouldnt be allowed to make your Zombie Roombas

Mind if I sig this?

[Twilightwyrm]

For your education system, be sure to separate children from their families in the state schools so they don't develop pesky familial bonds which might distract them from their all-consuming love for the state. If you have those family members executed for heresy treason, you don't want their kids getting all whiny about it. Because come on, you're an authoritarian regime, the only family you need is Big Brother.

It might be expensive, but keep the kids fed healthily, and make them do daily army-style group drills/activities outside where they can get tons of sunlight and physical activity. Of course, you'll include military training in case you need these kids fighting once they're all grown up. Not only will the citizens of tomorrow not look pale, they'll definitely turn out healthier. Higher physical stats should reflect this, and give you better melee.

You should put immense pressure on anyone with sufficient mental stats to become a spellcaster. Pay your spellcasters like doctors. Give them education in exchange for service. You want lots of casters, especially T1s. Keep these guys very close.

Look up Janissaries and Spartans. Have a similar "elite" program, where you take the most promising children (obviously you take their families out of the picture so they can only be loyal to you) and raise them practically from birth to become combat monsters. After this truly intense, all-consuming training, they should wind up around 3rd-5th level, with exactly the stats, skills, class levels, feats, and alignment you want them to have. These are your elite units, the optimized, the best of the best, so treat them well.

Religion will work against you. Outsiders can disagree with your policies. It is a source of ideology and legitimacy which does not come directly from the state, and that is bad because it can challenge the state. Instead, have everyone worship the ideals of the Party/State/Nation (look up the way Mao and other dictators were worshiped. Get this going for you). This will result in Ideal Clerics with exactly the domains you want them to have, channeling exactly the energy type you want, with the ACFs and feats you want, preaching the gospel of the State, and who will be highly loyal to you to matter what. This gives you yet another excuse to brainwash everyone, and generally be Evil.

Eliminate all things which can potentially challenge the state. Political parties are right out, all unions will be state-run, churches will be largely disposed of once you have state ideology as the dominant belief system. Grassroots political activists and critics should also be suppressed and replaced with brainwashed/loyal puppets. Insulting the state, or its officials in any way is to be punished with death or imprisonment. All specialists (doctors, lawyers, spellcasters, etc.) must register with the Party to receive licenses to work. Working without a license will result in re-education and probably death in your Russian/Nazi-inspired concentration/death camps. Not only will this stifle opposition, but it will be disgustingly Evil to boot, as you force your ideology down everyone's throats.

I would also add that, if you take this approach, you need to have either very uncorruptable bureaucrats running all these programs, or else you will need some form of very uncorruptable secret police to monitor all levels of society, not really for treason, but for incompetence and ill-performance of your people in charge of running all these programs. The reason for this is that, while you may intend all this gets done, there will be canny individuals who realize becoming part of the state apparatus makes it possible for them to do a quite mediocre job of running their area, relying on the chilling effect of a uncriticizable state to avoid word of their misbehavior getting to the proper channels. This creates a culture of mediocrity at the low levels of government, which gradually spreads upwards, and manifests as your nation briefly becoming highly decadent before imploding due to internal corruption, and falling to the next sizable barbarian horde that masses on your boarder. The (cheaper, but riskier) alternative is to allow for free criticism of government operations by the populace, which results in such incompetency being reported to you for free, at the cost of having to live with a critical citizenry, something which is thoroughly unacceptable to a fully totalitarian society such as you are envisioning.

[Malroth]

Of course since the citizens are implanted with a Necrotic Cyst they can be given a no save dominate and ordered to tell the truth at any time so if the citizen feels he has a grievance against a low ranking official the citizen should have the right to see whatever high ranking supervisor and request their own cyst be activated so that they may give a reliable report on the low ranking bueracrat's corruption or incompetence. This also vastly eases up investigation into crimes since it becomes impossible to resist arrest or lie to the police. Of course you also reward any citizen who volunteers such information such that your informant base feels the temporary supression of their free will is worth the rewards of spying for you.

[Slipperychicken]

The (cheaper, but riskier) alternative is to allow for free criticism of government operations by the populace, which results in such incompetency being reported to you for free, at the cost of having to live with a critical citizenry, something which is thoroughly unacceptable to a fully totalitarian society such as you are envisioning.

That's normally my default suggestion for governments, but it's hard to be truly Evil when you're publicly accountable.

[toapat]

Mind if I sig this?

go ahead. Filler text

[Twilightwyrm]

Of course since the citizens are implanted with a Necrotic Cyst they can be given a no save dominate and ordered to tell the truth at any time so if the citizen feels he has a grievance against a low ranking official the citizen should have the right to see whatever high ranking supervisor and request their own cyst be activated so that they may give a reliable report on the low ranking bueracrat's corruption or incompetence. This also vastly eases up investigation into crimes since it becomes impossible to resist arrest or lie to the police. Of course you also reward any citizen who volunteers such information such that your informant base feels the temporary supression of their free will is worth the rewards of spying for you.

True, but unless you are going to teach the intricate workings of the necrotic cyst to all the children during their state education, people are still going to believe that they cannot criticize the poor management of an incompetent bureaucrat, hence the "chilling effect". Further, publicly investigating such incompetence may be perceived as admitting an apparatus of the state was wrong or ineffective, which goes against the whole doctrine of state worship. So the issue isn't so much that they could hide behind the state if an actual investigation was launched (because at that point the state is launching it), but rather that to prevent them from ever being accused in the first place.

[Chilingsworth]

True, but unless you are going to teach the intricate workings of the necrotic cyst to all the children during their state education, people are still going to believe that they cannot criticize the poor management of an incompetent bureaucrat, hence the "chilling effect". Further, publicly investigating such incompetence may be perceived as admitting an apparatus of the state was wrong or ineffective, which goes against the whole doctrine of state worship. So the issue isn't so much that they could hide behind the state if an actual investigation was launched (because at that point the state is launching it), but rather that to prevent them from ever being accused in the first place.

Well, I was planing to have all spellcasters granted a mother cyst.

[demigodus]

Might I actually suggest allowing for political parties? That run against each other in an election, that is not rigged? With every political party with sufficient support getting access to the exact same level of advertising capability, rather then being dependent on how much money they raise? Say, having alotted times via state advertising channels?

Yes, I know this sounds crazy in an evil state, so let me elaborate.

The elections would be strictly monitored so that politicians are not allowed to say anything that is unacceptable. They can opt to either pass everything they are to say through a governing body, or just hope it isn't unacceptable. If they say it and it is unacceptable, that is punishable by slavery. Slaves of course don't get to vote or run for office.

Unacceptable things are, any objective statement that they do not have evidence for. All subjective statements must be preceded AND followed by a disclaimer stating that this is only their opinion, and not a fact. So basically no lying. Also, no insulting your opponents. You may make factual statements about their accomplishments or lack of it, and, well, that is it. You can't run a platform on "I'm not an orc and orcs are d*cks. vote for me". All your official records (birth records, tax forms, etc.) WILL be revealed to the public. In case there is anything questionable there, it WILL be found. Finally, when asked questions related to the election/campaign, they must answer the question, and only the question.

So the populace knows precisely what each political party stands for, and what voting for that party means. All election time promises must also be fulfilled by the party. If, after election, a candidate backtracks on his promise, that is punished by slavery.

So you have a political system where the citizens have a vote, and they know they have a vote. And their vote goes to what they think they are voting on.

However, there is a limit to the power of the candidates. The general direction of the country is run by some elite group of immortals (who also enforce politician honesty). The politicians get to handle the details. This way the populace should not rebel just because their voices go unheard. Of course, all the candidates should be some of the most loyal people to the state, selected by the state to run representing the various positions. So that no matter who is elected, state loyalty is ensured.

As for taking care of the needs of your populace, I believe your citizens need about 1 gallons of water per day per person. You could set up water tunnels connecting the empire, fueled by decanters of endless water. Every round, a decanter produces enough water for 30 people. So each decanter can supply 14,400 people with water per day. Have 1 decanter for every group of 5,000 (distributed based on how your population is), with extra water used on farm animals, farm lands, etc.

If you have an army of undead, having a variety, for different tasks. Some tasks are best done by humanoids (smithing, sewing, etc.), while some are best done by skeleton horses (say, plowing the fields). Your army should be a different group from these undead.

Absolutely no one should know whom their children/parents are. Children are taken from their parents on their first birthday, and given to the state to raise, and patriotize the ever loving crap out of.

[Runestar]

Have an opt-out system for body-donation, where the government assumes all citizens will donate their bodies unless they specify otherwise. Make opting out an incredibly inconvenient process with a large fee attached (50gp should be enough to dissuade all but the richest in a D&D economy. Remember that you like the rich, because they lend your government money, and that makes the economy work). You can only opt out while you're still alive, by going to a town center in person and sitting there for hours filling out complicated forms.

That sounds a lot like the organ donation system in Singapore (HOTA). Basically, you are assumed to be willing to donate your organs to the state for transplants and the like after you die. You can opt out, but you lose priority in the waiting list should you require an organ transplant yourself. I think you can introduce a similar system here. Basically, you get perks if you decide to stay.

That said, the country sounds a lot like the City of Shade. May want to read up more about it on Lords of Darkness?

[demigodus]

Have an opt-out system for body-donation, where the government assumes all citizens will donate their bodies unless they specify otherwise. Make opting out an incredibly inconvenient process with a large fee attached (50gp should be enough to dissuade all but the richest in a D&D economy. Remember that you like the rich, because they lend your government money, and that makes the economy work). You can only opt out while you're still alive, by going to a town center in person and sitting there for hours filling out complicated forms.

Also have the boys in Propaganda write up some nonsense about people who opt out being 14.78% less likely to go to heaven after they die. Ideally, a non-government source should write this stuff.

Psychologically speaking, people don't like it if they are presented as "you have to do X or you are punished". They like it when presented is "you are rewarded if you do X".

If you are automatically assumed to be in the system, then people think they are entitled to whatever rewards body donation gives. Therefore, having those rewards removed sounds like a punishment.

I think it would be much better if, instead, people are given 50gp if they opt in (maybe make opting out once you opt in cost quite a bit though). Their parents can opt them in when they are children, which lasts from birth to their 18th birthday, after which they can choose whether they want to be opted in again.

Just increase taxes by whatever amount is necessary to even out the fact that you are giving money instead of charging it. Same result as far as the government is concerned, people are happier because they are given a choice.

Love the propaganda idea though

[TroubleBrewing]

Using DMM Clerics to cast a Persisted Gentle Repose on corpses wouldn't be a bad idea either. Better than refrigeration!

[Chilingsworth]

Using DMM Clerics to cast a Persisted Gentle Repose on corpses wouldn't be a bad idea either. Better than refrigeration!

The good news is that's a tactic my DM hasn't actually banned.

The bad news is that divine metamagic is a deity-specific feat in his world, and the diety ain't Asmodeus (the only type of clerics we'll be allowed, ever, almost certainly in this particular campagin.)

[Darth Stabber]

Using DMM Clerics to cast a Persisted Gentle Repose on corpses wouldn't be a bad idea either. Better than refrigeration!

Persisted spells last 24 hours, you would actually be shortening the duration (normally 1 day/level). Extend spell works though (making it 2 days per level).

[Chilingsworth]

Persisted spells last 24 hours, you would actually be shortening the duration (normally 1 day/level). Extend spell works though (making it 2 days per level).

Yeah, that too... thanks for pointing that out.

Hmm... castings of gentle respose ought to help until I need to worry about truly largescale production, then I might want to see about making magic items that can hold large numbers of bodies in repose, or just put my undead crafting facilities in the arctic.

[Wise Green Bean]

The suggestions that make life generally suck for common folk who didn't do anything against the state worry me a bit. Sounds like a good way to get a revolution brewing. Even if the military can suppress it the first time, they'll keep coming, and one of them will eventually succeed. So don't make poor people slaves, be wary of messing around with free speech, and don't be unjust. I'd also be very, very cautious about separating kids from their family. Momma will always love her cub, no matter the conditioning, so if that's vital, make sure they can see each other occasionally, stay in communication. Be generous with carrot and the stick; encourage people strongly at every turn to work with you, don't be unreasonable. And if they choose to be stupid, really stupid, and not go along with your perfectly reasonable and beneficial way of doing things, then obliterate them in the most heinously evil way possible. Enjoy a wonderful life or die. You can afford to be generous, you have infinite free labor if everyone gets zombied eventually, so food and resources probably shouldn't be an issue if you're careful.
I'd also see if it's possible to get everyone comfortable with the undead. People won't be too wigged out about it if they see zombies everyday digging ditches and what not.