[3.5] What is the best spell for knocking back and/or bull rushing?

[rypt]

I'm looking for the spell that best captures the essence of the 'force push' as shown in this trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glYfiVhDwGo) -- knocking someone back with such power that they crash through walls.

[nedz]

Hmm
Battering Ram [SpC] is a spell which does Bull Rush with a +10
Telekinesis [PH] can also be used to Bull Rush

I'm not sure that either can break down walls.

[Doorhandle]

I've heard that melf's unicorn arrow is also pretty awesome for this purpose.

[rypt]

Hmm
Battering Ram [SpC] is a spell which does Bull Rush with a +10
Telekinesis [PH] can also be used to Bull Rush

I'm not sure that either can break down walls.
Well, the wall breaking is more of a fluff thing, as D&D rules don't really address how that would work in a situation like this.

That said, Telekinesis was the first spell I thought of here, but it made me wonder if there was anything higher level that might provide some sort of effective size bonus (the one thing Telekinesis is missing).

[Arcanist]

I've heard that melf's unicorn arrow is also pretty awesome for this purpose.

I don't think that spell works on walls seeing as how Walls are not creatures (That sounded less weird in my head).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Fighter 2 with the Dungeoncrasher ACF plus Melf's Unicorn Arrow, preferably on a gish build. Take note, Melf's Unicorn Arrow simply states that it appears in the air and goes toward the target, it doesn't necessarily come directly from your character, so it can even appear above opponents and bull rush them into the floor.

[Hanuman]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14331545&postcount=44

all of them

[Darth Stabber]

Not a spell (rather a psionic power), but very good at what you're asking: telekinetic maneuver (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/telekineticManeuver.htm)

[rypt]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14331545&postcount=44

all of them

Wow. Thank you. Rushing Waters is ridiculously effective for its level. +30 bonus as a level 5 spell? The bull rush modifier for Crushing Hand, a 9th level, is only +18 (granted, it can do other things).

[ericgrau]

FWIW a ring of the ram has a +13 modifier and anybody can use it. It's a lot of fun as a push ring. It can also break open doors but this is a separate function.

Much better than telekinesis but much worse than rushing waters.

Breaking a wall through raw force is difficult in D&D and even doors aren't a cake walk. Outside of a disintegrate you'd have to be pretty high level or find some obscure spell that says "Ya, forget the DC, the wall just breaks."

[nedz]

Passwall, Rock to Mud, Move Earth, Rust Ray, Stone Shape, Stone Shape - Greater, Excavate, ... can all get through walls of various kinds — though none of them have the dramatic effect you are looking for.

[Aethir]

Wow. Thank you. Rushing Waters is ridiculously effective for its level. +30 bonus as a level 5 spell? The bull rush modifier for Crushing Hand, a 9th level, is only +18 (granted, it can do other things).

Rushing Waters was also updated and nerfed (Down to +15) in that regard in Spell Compendium

[Hanuman]

Wow. Thank you. Rushing Waters is ridiculously effective for its level. +30 bonus as a level 5 spell? The bull rush modifier for Crushing Hand, a 9th level, is only +18 (granted, it can do other things).

Crystalkeep used to be a good reference to look up stuff like what I posted, but when I google "crystalkeep creator" I am turned to some alternative methods.

[gorfnab]

If you don't mind using Shadowcaster: Umbral Fist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a)

[nedz]

CK was taken down.

[Drelua]

Breaking a wall through raw force is difficult in D&D and even doors aren't a cake walk. Outside of a disintegrate you'd have to be pretty high level or find some obscure spell that says "Ya, forget the DC, the wall just breaks."

Slight problem with this idea: Dungeoncrashers. If you really want to smash right through a wall, this makes it pretty easy even at low to mid levels. Starting with 18 Strength and getting a +2 item gets your modifier to +15 at level 6, letting you go right through even the toughest doors or walls that the PHB has to offer on a roll of 13. My favourite part of this is that if an iron door in an iron wall has hold portal or [i]arcane lock[i/] on it, it's actually easier to go through the wall next do it. :smallamused:

Edit: I swear my brain told my fingers to type 13...

[Hanuman]

CK was taken down.

HINT WINK NUDGE EYEBROWS ELBOW TOUCHNOSE ROTATEHEAD SMILELIFTEYEBROWS POINTEYES MOTION

[nedz]

HINT WINK NUDGE EYEBROWS ELBOW TOUCHNOSE ROTATEHEAD SMILELIFTEYEBROWS POINTEYES MOTION

Yes I know, but I got into trouble the last time I posted the link.