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Mangles
2012-12-08, 06:56 AM
A fiendish trap had been set up by some goblins. They were pouring potions together into a large heated pot set at the top of a tower and were intending on emptying it on us. We thwarted their plan but decided to trigger the trap against their reinforcements. On our way out of the tower there were pools of the liquid still bubbling away on the ground. We chopped off the hands of the goblins and threw them into the pools of potions. The others laughed with glee at the effects of the potion and took bets on what would happen. In truth, I joined in with them. Some hands exploded, others vanished, a few got up and crawled away. I am, we are, sorry for what we have created. Had we known we never would have been so careless. - Confession from a knight regarding the creation of the idle hands


Idle hands are magically created from the hands of a person or beast. Though they lack a brain, heart and many other critical pieces of anatomy they seem to thrive on the magic that created them and survive without need for sustenance. Still they say idle hands to the devils work and it is true. The idle hands are indiscriminate killers.

Sample Idle hand
This example uses a Hobgoblin as the base creature. To gain the potion powers the creature in the example rolled a 12, 28 and 16 in that order.

Diminutive Undead (Goblinoid)
Hit Dice: 1d12 (6 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares)
Armor Class: +20 ( +4 size, +3 Dex, +1 Leather glove, +2 Barkskin), +17 touch , +17 flat-footed
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-15
Attack: Claw +7 melee (1d4-3 plus Eldritch Touch)
Full Attack: Claw +7 melee (1d4-3 plus Eldritch Touch)
Space/Reach: 0 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Eldritch Touch
Special Qualities: Undead Traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType), Potion Powers, Oozing sores
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +3, Will +3
Abilities Str 5, Dex 17, Con -, Int 5, Wis 14, Cha 12
Skills: Climb +9, Hide + 17
Feats: Weapon Finesse
Environment: Warm hills
Organization: Solitary, Pair, Bunch (3-6), Grasp 20-300 (see swarm for details)
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: None
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Advancement: 2-5 HD (see advancement bellow)
Level Adjustment: -

Combat
Idle hands try to seek out solitary victims with hands. They will hunt with their opposite hand, or by themselves if it has been destroyed. Idle hands climb their victims and go for any exposed skin. They will do as much damage as possible, utilizing whatever potion powers they may have. Once a victim is dead, they take their hands back to their peers to create more of their kind.

The only life an Idle hand values is that of its opposite. Should its opposite be threatened, captured, or harmed in any way, an Idle hand will stop at nothing to remedy the situation.

Eldritch Touch (Su): Idle hands have been exposed to too much magic. As a consequence, touching or being touched by an idle hand causes pain. An idle hand does an additional 1 point of damage to any creature it strikes with an attack. Anyone striking an idle with a natural weapon or unarmed attack also takes 1 point of damage. There is no save. Creatures that cannot feel pain such as Constructs and Mindless Undead are unaffected by an idle hand's eldritch touch.

Potion Powers(Sp): Idle hands are created through the mixture of many potions. Their creation is less a science and more a gamble of misfortune. When creating an idle hand roll 3 sets of 1d100. Each set grants a minor potion effect. The list of potions can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/potionsAndOils.htm). Re-reoll any duplicate effects and change any cure wounds effect to an inflict wounds. Any potion power with a duration that is not instantaneous has its duration changed to permanent. An Idle Hand cannot suppress these effects. Any effect that is instantaneous instead can be activated as a free action once a minute. Any effect that is suppressed or negated returns to the Idle hand after one minute.
12: Endure Elements (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/endureElements.htm)
28: Darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm)
16: Barkskin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/barkskin.htm)

Oozing sores(Sp): Idle hands are covered with large pustules. As a standard action, they may produce the effects of any Potion Power they have and deliver it to another creature through the liquid their sores secrete. They can do this once every minute for each potion power. The effects of the potion power last as long as the potions they replicate. A successful Reflex save (DC is 10 + the level of the spell the Potion Power resembles or duplicates + the idle hand’s Cha modifier) avoids the pustules.

Skills: An idle hand has a +4 racial bonus to Climb checks and uses its Dexterity modifier instead of its Strength modifier when making Climb or Jump checks.

Advancement: For every increase in Hit Die an idle hand gains, it also gains one or two special abilities. A 2 Hit Dice idle hand gains Smite Fallen and Scurry. A 3 Hit Dice idle hand gains Improved Trip and Minor Potion Power. A 4 Hit Dice idle hand gains Tripping Grasp. Finally, a 5 Hit Dice idle hand gains Medium Power Potion.


Smite Fallen (Ex): Idle hands learn to kill prey faster once it has fallen. They cause double damage with their natural attacks to any opponent who is prone.


Scurry (Ex): Idle Hands are faster than they first appear. Their base movement speed increases by 10 feet.


Improved Trip (Ex): As idle hands utilize their tactics more often, they become more proficient. They gain Improved Trip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTrip) as a bonus feat.


Minor Potion Power (Su): Having shared potions with many other hands as part of a grasp, the idle hand's power increases. You may roll a 1d100 and gain another potion power from the minor list. If this is the same as a potion power you already know, you may re-roll. If you roll a stronger version of a minor potion power you already have, you may keep the stronger power and re-roll the minor potion power it replaced.


Tripping Grasp (Ex): Despite their size, idle hands are scrappy. They may now choose to add their Dexterity modifier to trip attempts. This is in addition to any bonus or penalty they receive from their Strength modifier.


Medium Potion Power (Su): Reaching the pinnacle of power within their grasp, idle hands now gain a much larger power. You may roll a 1d100 and gain a single potion power from either the minor or medium list. You may make this choice after seeing the result of the roll. If this is the same as a potion power you already know. you may re-roll. If you roll a stronger version of a minor power you already have, you may keep the stronger power and re-roll the minor potion power it replaced.


Lore
{TABLE=head]DC|Lore
5| Idle hands are created by the infusion of large amounts of uncontrolled magic. This infusion lasts their entire lifespan and they can use it to damage those who fight against it.
10| The potions an idle hand are subjected to cause them to exhibit unique powers. Allowing them to mimic many different magical effects.
15| The Idle hands can secrete the potions powers they are infused with. Large groups of Idle hands often form a weave around a victims hands and secrete their powers in order to create new idle hands.
[/table]

Plot Hook
- A recent series of bizarre murders keep occurring in the major city. The guard blame necromancers, but the necromancers whose bodies have been recovered bodies bear the same calling card as the victims. A complete lack of hands.

Creating an Idle Hand
Idle Hand is an acquired template that can be added to any creature small or larger with hands that can both do both fine manipulation and are strong enough to wield a weapon.

Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to undead, it keeps any subtypes it may have. The Idle hand is 3 size categories bellow the base creatures size.

Hit Dice: Changes to 1d12 regardless of base creatures hit dice.

Speed: Reduced to 10 foot for medium sized base creature. Add 5 foot to the land speed for every size category over medium the base creature is. Remove 5 feet for every size category under medium the base creature is.

AC: Retain any natural armour the base creature has. Retain proficiency with any armour the base creature is proficient with.

Attacks: Gains a single claw attack if the base creature didn't have one already.

Damage: The base damage for an Idle hands claw attack varies with its size depending on the base creatures size as follows: Small 1d6, Medium-size 1d8, Large 2d6, Huge 2d8, Gargantuan 4d6, Colossal 4d8. If the base creature already has a claw attack, the use the better base damage.

Special Attacks:
An Idle hand has the following special attack

Eldritch Touch (Su): Idle hands have been exposed to too much magic. As a consequence, touching or being touched by an idle hand causes pain. An idle hand does an additional 1 point of damage to any creature it strikes with an attack. Anyone striking an idle with a natural weapon or unarmed attack also takes 1 point of damage. There is no save. Creatures that cannot feel pain such as Constructs and Mindless Undead are unaffected by an idle hand's eldritch touch.

Special Qualities:
An Idle hand gains the following special qualities

Potion Powers(Sp): Idle hands are created through the mixture of many potions. Their creation is less a science and more a gamble of misfortune. When creating an idle hand roll 3 sets of 1d100. Each set grants a minor potion effect. The list of potions can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/potionsAndOils.htm). Re-reoll any duplicate effects and change any cure wounds effect to an inflict wounds. Any potion power with a duration that is not instantaneous has its duration changed to permanent. An Idle Hand cannot suppress these effects. Any effect that is instantaneous instead can be activated as a free action once a minute. Any effect that is suppressed or negated returns to the Idle hand after one minute.

Oozing sores(Sp): Idle hands are covered with large pustules. As a standard action, they may produce the effects of any Potion Power they have and deliver it to another creature through the liquid their sores secrete. They can do this once every minute for each potion power. The effects of the potion power last as long as the potions they replicate. A successful Reflex save (DC is 10 + the level of the spell the Potion Power resembles or duplicates + the idle hand’s Cha modifier) avoids the pustules.

Abilities:
An idle hand has the following base ability scores. These are modified by any racial ability bonuses or negatives from the base creature.
Str 5, Dex 15, Con -, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 12

Skills: An idle hand has a +4 racial bonus to Climb checks and uses its Dexterity modifier instead of its Strength modifier when making Climb checks.

Climate/Terrain: Same as base creature
Organization: Solitary, Pair, Team, 3-6, Weave 20-50
Challenge Rating: 1 or 2 if the base creature has natural armour and a natural claw attack.
Treasure: Occasionally gloves or rings. Depends on base creatures treasure.
Level Adjustment: -

Items:
Idle hands have a limited set of items they are capable of using. Should the creature they were cut from have armour proficiencies than the Idle hands retain this and are able to wear a glove in a similar fashion. The table bellow details the gloves they can wear.

{table=head]Armour|Armour Type|Armour/Shield Bonus|Maximum Dex Bonus|Armour Check Penalty|Arcane Spell Failure Chance|Speed 10ft|Weight
Leather glove|Light|+1|+6|0|10%|10ft|1/2lb
Chain glove|Medium|+2|+3|-2|20%|10ft|2lb
Gauntlet|Heavy|+3|+1|-4|30%|5ft|5lb
[/table]

In addition to the armour, an Idle hand may also wear and gain the powers from a single ring.

Idle Hand Familiar:
An Idle hand can be taken as a familiar by a spellcaster with the improved familiar feat, a caster level of at least 5 and an alignment of neutral or evil on the Good/Evil axis.

To take an Idle hand as a familiar a spellcaster must first remove one of their own hands. This inflicts 1 constitution drain. Should the hand be regenerated the caster will have the constitution return, but will loose control of the Idle hand they created. The hand is then placed in a pot or cauldron along with at least 500gp worth of various potions. A minimum of 5 different potions is required. After a few minutes an Idle hand will emerge and be loyal to the spellcaster it came from. Should the spellcaster loose their other hand the Idle hand will turn against its master and seek to destroy them, no matter the cost.

Due to the ritual actually using the spellcasters own body parts. The spellcaster may cast any spell and have the Idle hand complete the somatic component of the spell as long as the Idle hand is within 5 feet of the spellcaster. Completing the somatic component of a spell takes a standard action by the Idle hand.

Swarm of Idle Hands
Few horrors have been underestimated as much as a Swarm of Idle Hands, also known as a Grasp. The writhing masses of hands climb over one another to kill a victim and bring two more into their fold.

Diminutive Undead (Swarm)
Hit Dice: 6d12 (36 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares)
Armor Class: +17 (+4 size, +3 Dex), +17 touch , +14 flat-footed
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/-12
Attack: Swarm (2d6 plus Eldritch Touch)
Full Attack: Swarm (2d6 plus Eldritch Touch)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Distraction, Eldritch Touch
Special Qualities: Undead Traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType), Swarm Traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#swarmSubtype), Potion Powers, Oozing sores
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +3, Will +3
Abilities Str 5, Dex 16, Con -, Int 5, Wis 14, Cha 12
Skills: Climb +12, Hide + 19
Feats: Improved Initiative, Ability Focus (Oozing sores)
Environment: Varying
Organization: Grasp (1 swarm)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: None
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment: -

Combat: A swarm of idle hands seeks to surround and attack any living prey it encounters. A swarm deals 2d6 points of damage to any creature whose space it occupies at the end of its move.

Distraction: (Ex)Any living creature that begins its turn with a swarm in its space must succeed on a DC 13 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round.

Eldritch Touch (Su): Idle hands have been exposed to too much magic. As a consequence, touching or being touched by an idle hand causes pain. An idle hand does an additional 1 point of damage to any creature it strikes with an attack. Anyone striking an idle with a natural weapon or unarmed attack also takes 1 point of damage. There is no save. Creatures that cannot feel pain such as Constructs and Mindless Undead are unaffected by an Idle hand's eldritch touch.

Potion Powers(Sp): Idle hands are created through the mixture of many potions. Their creation is less a science and more a gamble of misfortune. A Swarm of Idle hands can have active any 3 minor potion effects drawn from the list found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/potionsAndOils.htm). Change any cure wounds effect to an inflict wounds. An Idle Hand cannot suppress these effects, but may change the active effects as a full round action as if consuming the new three potions. Instantaneous effects and potion effects that are negated or suppressed still count towards the active potion powers.

Oozing sores(Sp): Idle hands are covered with large pustules. As a standard action, they may produce the effects of any Potion Power they have and deliver it to another creature through the liquid their sores secrete. The effects of the potion power last as long as the potions they replicate. A successful Reflex save (DC is 13 + the level of the spell the Potion Power resembles or duplicates) avoids the pustules. In addition the Swarm of Idle Hands can use this ability to create new Idle Hands from any valid corpse. The new Idle hands join the swarm and it heals 3hp for each new hand.

Skills: An idle hand has a +4 racial bonus to Climb checks and uses its Dexterity modifier instead of its Strength modifier when making Climb or Jump checks.

Mangles
2012-12-08, 06:57 AM
Reserved just incase

Debihuman
2012-12-08, 01:50 PM
I like this. It reminds me of the crawling claw from 2nd ed or Thing from the Adam's Family.

It just has a few issues.

Weapon finesse does not affect how damage its weapon does. Its claw does 1d4-3 damage due to its 5 strength which carries a -3 modifier.

Its AC is actually 21 if you include the barkskin. I think that's some of the problem with this creature. Its AC is a tad too high for CR 2. AC is 21, Touch is 20 and Flat-footed is 18 since you appear to have left off +3 barkskin in your calculations.

The combination of low hit points and high AC is almost always an indication that the creature is poorly balanced. The other indication is when CR is higher than HD.

This should be a CR 1 monster with only 6 hit points. It's a one shot kill IF the party can manage to land a blow. It's high AC makes that difficult. A 2nd level fighter w/Str 16 would have to roll 16 or better to hit on a d20. Those are not great odds and all it does is drag out combat. A first level fighter with Str 15 would have to roll 18 or better. Odds are the fighters will miss more than 50% of the time. A 2nd level wizard alone could kill it with magic missile. It just doesn't have the hit points to justify CR 2. It has too high AC to justify CR 1. Even if you limited to barkskin +2 that would be a help.

Eldritch touch should be a Su ability and you need to state there is no saving throw. There isn't a damage type called "magical damage" and this appears to be standard lethal damage. What about creatures that feel no pain, such as constructs and mindless undead? Are they affected by an idle hand's eldritch touch? I'd rule that they aren't.

Eldritch Touch (Su): Idle hands have been exposed to too much magic. As a consequence, touching or being touched by an idle hand causes pain. An idle hand does an additional 1 point of damage to any creature it strikes with an attack. Anyone striking an idle with a natural weapon or unarmed attack also takes 1 point of damage. There is no save. Creatures that cannot feel pain such as Constructs and Mindless Undead are unaffected by an idle hand's eldritch touch.

Oozing sores should have some kind of game mechanic or just put the first sentence of text in the creature's description and put the second sentence under potion powers.

Potion Powers should be a Sp or Su ability. I'm kinda leaning towards Sp since the potions are all based on spells and these work exactly like the spells. The activation time is way too long. I recommend this be a standard action. One minute basically means that these will never be used in combat and that takes all the fun out of it.

You would roll three percentile dice to gain one minor, one medium and one major potion, not three 1d50. There is no 1d50. You should use dice that people can actually use in game.

Here is how I would fix the balance issues:

CR should be 1, not 2. Since the barkskin +3 is the major issue only allow 3 minor potions, re-rolling any duplicates. This ensures that the AC won't be too high. Since undead cannot heal from potions of cure light wounds, that potion should be changed to a potion of inflict light wounds. Otherwise the potion list should stay the same.

Really these are all minor issues.

Debby

Mangles
2012-12-08, 05:34 PM
I like this. It reminds me of the crawling claw from 2nd ed or Thing from the Adam's Family.


Glad you like it. That was the feel I was going for.


All my mistakes

Are hopefully fixed. Took your advice on all of them except potion powers (see bellow). I was tossing up giving the hand more HD but I really couldnt justify a super strong hand. I intend to give them a progression later on, and how to make them into a familiar. :D


Potion Powers should be a Sp or Su ability. I'm kinda leaning towards Sp since the potions are all based on spells and these work exactly like the spells. The activation time is way too long. I recommend this be a standard action. One minute basically means that these will never be used in combat and that takes all the fun out of it.

Potion powers are hopefully fixed by this sentece being added into them.

"Any potion power with a duration that is not instantaneous has its duration changed to permanent. "

They will be always on abilities besides maybe invisibility, and if negated come back on after a minute. They will still be only able to use inflict spells once a minute to heal.

Hanuman
2012-12-08, 07:52 PM
Idle hands are to Crawling hands as Exiled modrons are to Modrons.

Everything looks solid, I would make a swam type to reflavor crawling hands in case someone wanted to be used (I like using them in dungeon traps when I DM, personally).

Good make, you should publish it to a compendium lying around the forums.

Debihuman
2012-12-08, 07:56 PM
Oozing sores are really too slow. It takes a full round action and can only be used once a minute. That pretty much means that it will only happen once in combat (generally combat lasts 4 rounds which is the equivalent of 24 seconds). I recommend it being a Standard action and can be used once every four rounds. You want to showcase this rather than hamstring it.

Since Eldritch Touch has no save, you might consider a Reflex save here to avoid the effects. I would really recommend that you increase the creature's Charisma in that case.

The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is: 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature’s Cha modifier. The -3 modifier from their current charisma makes for saves against potion powers a little to easy for the party to make.

A standard creature has a balance of 10 and 11 stats. If it has a lot of higher stats, that can affect CR but in this case, this is considerably weaker than a standard creature. When you add up a creature's stat modifiers you should have 0.

Str 5 (-3), Dex 17 (+3), Con - (0), Int 5 (-3), Wis 8 (-1), Cha 4 (-3) for a -7 to its overall stats. That's just too low to for the challenge rating. If you bump up Wisdom to 10 and Charisma to 12 , the creature is a little more balanced against CR 1.

The small size gives it a little bonus but not enough to justify a -7 overall to its stats.

Otherwise, it looks great. If the creature rolls a potion of cure light wounds, it takes damage and if it survives, it can pass the healing on to its victim; wouldn't that be a surprise!

I can just hear Bert and Abner discussing this (a shout out to Bhu).

Debby

Domriso
2012-12-08, 10:42 PM
Not commenting on the balance (because I'm terrible at it), I love the idea. Besides that, this could be a necromancer's best friend. Having barkskin, or inflict light wounds, once per minute? Even with a very short duration (how is the duration for Oozing Sores, anyway?), a bunch of potion effects usable that often on command would be awesome.

Mangles
2012-12-09, 05:58 AM
Idle hands are to Crawling hands as Exiled modrons are to Modrons.


Thanks? I'm not sure what modrons are, exiled or otherwise, but hopefully you mean they made them better and not just the same but not.


I would make a swam type to reflavor crawling hands in case someone wanted to be used

A swarm is a great idea and one that will happen shortly.


Good make, you should publish it to a compendium lying around the forums.

Do you have any suggested compendium? Most of my stuff that I have made so far is stand alone, but I don't mind collaborating when given the chance.


Oozing sores are really too slow. It takes a full round action and can only be used once a minute. That pretty much means that it will only happen once in combat (generally combat lasts 4 rounds which is the equivalent of 24 seconds). I recommend it being a Standard action and can be used once every four rounds. You want to showcase this rather than hamstring it.

The reason I didn't want to make oozing sores a standard action every round type of thing is so that players can't walk around with a bunch of Idle hand living potion kits that dispense buffs and heals all over everyone really quickly. Would making each individual potion be usable once per minute instead of the ability as a whole? That would give the ability to use all 3 potion effects in a combat situation, but none more than once. Oozing sores only effects other creatures, not the hand. So this doesn't hamstring his powers, just those he gives to his peers.

The standard action is much better than a full round action though. Not being able to move and deliver does limit the oozing sores too much.

Just putting it out there. Do people prefer 1/encounter over 1/minute? It tends to essentially be the same thing but 1/encounter could be less bookkeeping.


Str 5 (-3), Dex 17 (+3), Con - (0), Int 5 (-3), Wis 8 (-1), Cha 4 (-3) for a -7 to its overall stats. That's just too low to for the challenge rating. If you bump up Wisdom to 10 and Charisma to 12 , the creature is a little more balanced against CR 1.


I changed the base stats to Str 5 (-3), Dex 15 (+2), Con - (0), Int 5 (-3), Wis 14 (+2), Cha 12 (0) for a total of +0. I didn't know that this should be the case for a CR 1 creature. A note though. The example creature has higher Dex than this because the base creature, a hobgoblin, has a racial bonus to Dex of +2.


I love the idea. Besides that, this could be a necromancer's best friend. Having barkskin, or inflict light wounds, once per minute? Even with a very short duration (how is the duration for Oozing Sores, anyway?), a bunch of potion effects usable that often on command would be awesome.

Thanks for loving it. The necromancer's, or clerics for that matter, best friend is the hardest thing to balance this creature against. I'm glad you like the effects though. This actually was caused by a bunch of characters I put in the situation that leads in the OP. I couldn't just have the vile potion brew do nothing. Unfortunately they never got to fight the idle hands themselves.

The duration for any potion power used through the oozing sores should be the same length as the potion. I probably should specify that somewhere.

Besides the fixes, new to this update is Idle hands as familiars.

Hanuman
2012-12-09, 08:56 AM
No, I mean Crawling Claws (Monsters of Faerun pg.29), it's a swarm of undead hands.

Debihuman
2012-12-09, 09:28 AM
This is what I mean by Oozing Sores:

Oozing Sores (Sp): Idle hands are covered with large pustules. As a standard action, they may produce the effects of any Potion Power they have and deliver it to another creature through the liquid their sores secrete. They can do this once every minute for each potion power. The effects of the potion power last as long as the potions they replicate. A successful Reflex save (DC is 10 + the level of the spell the Potion Power resembles or duplicates + the idle hand’s Cha modifier) avoids the pustules.

For CR 1, I think a save is necessary.

Upon checking your skills, it strikes me that you didn't include the modifier for the new Dex score. I think you should give it a racial bonus to Climb and allow it to use its Dexterity modifier instead of its Strength modifier for making Climb checks. The cat uses its Dex instead of its Str for Climb checks so it's not unprecedented.

If you put 2 ranks into each skill this is how it would look:

Skills: Climb +9, Hide +17

Skills: An idle hand has a +4 racial bonus to Climb checks and uses its Dexterity modifier instead of its Strength modifier when making Climb checks.

Debby

Mangles
2012-12-09, 04:11 PM
@Hanuman. It all makes sense now. Even if a similar swam exists, I agree with you that this needs a swarming version as well.

@Debi.
This is what I mean by Oozing Sores:

I didn't think about oozing sores being used offensively. The save has been added in case it is needed as well as the climb skill being Dex which means this thing can actually climb.

Amechra
2012-12-09, 04:31 PM
The thing is, there aren't any negative potion effects on that table, so why would they use it offensively? Actually, strike that, Rage and Reduce Person can be used as debuffs in very rare occasions.

So I don't see the point of always allowing a save? Just have it be Reflex(Harmless) (yes, that category doesn't exist, but, hell, it works for this, more as a reminder that you can choose to fail saves.)

Debihuman
2012-12-09, 09:33 PM
Because a potion of cure light wounds is turned into a potion of cause light wounds. That's why there should be a save.

Amechra
2012-12-10, 12:34 AM
Ah, missed that.

Still, why allow it a save? Quite frankly, just give them a touch attack they have to make.

Mangles
2012-12-10, 03:03 AM
Because that would cause there Eldritch Touch ability to activate and would make them cause pain to any ally which wanted a potion. This would be interesting except I intend them to share potions with each other and they only have 6hp.

Mangles
2012-12-10, 08:06 PM
Added a swarm of idle hands. Major changes from a single besides the usual swarm abilities is that its potion powers can be any and can change as a standard action, and that its oozing sores ability can create new hands. This also heals the swarm at the same time.

Mangles
2012-12-16, 06:57 AM
Added in a class that progresses the Idle Hands. Makes trip attempts possible with the size difference and adds more potion powers. Also all of its skills are Dex based, even the Str ones thanks to its natural skills in the stat block. Still this should be no problem for the party cleric to get rid of. Each level should probably add 1 more CR though.

Debihuman
2012-12-16, 03:57 PM
Your Advancement class is more like a prestige class than a base class. Idle hands shouldn't get 2 levels of skills at x4. They have that factored in their base skills so change this but it's mentioned again in the Advancement.

Here is an easier way to present this. Here is how it looks in the Stat Block:

Advancement: 2-5 HD (Diminutive) (See below for details)

Advancement: For every increase in Hit Die an idle hand gains, it also gains one or two special abilities. A 2 Hit Dice idle hand gains Smite Fallen and Scurry. A 3 Hit Dice idle hand gains Improved Trip and Minor Potion Power. A 4 Hit Dice idle hand gains Tripping Grasp. Finally, a 5 Hit Dice idle hand gains Medium Power Potion.

Smite Fallen (Ex): Idle hands learn to kill prey faster once it has fallen. They cause double damage with their natural attacks to any opponent who is prone.

Scurry (Ex): Idle Hands are faster than they first appear. Their base movement speed increases by 10 feet.

Improved Trip (Ex): As idle hands utilize their tactics more often, they become more proficient. They gain Improved Trip as a bonus feat.

Minor Potion Power (Su): Having shared potions with many other hands as part of a grasp, the idle hand's power increases. You may roll a 1d100 and gain another potion power from the minor list. If this is the same as a potion power you already know, you may re-roll. If you roll a stronger version of a minor potion power you already have, you may keep the stronger power and re-roll the minor potion power it replaced.

Tripping Grasp (Ex): Despite their size, idle hands are scrappy. They may now choose to add their Dexterity modifier to trip attempts. This is in addition to any bonus or penalty they receive from their Strength modifier.

Medium Potion Power (Su): Reaching the pinnacle of power within their grasp, idle hands now gain a much larger power. You may roll a 1d100 and gain a single potion power from either the minor or medium list. You may make this choice after seeing the result of the roll. If this is the same as a potion power you already know. you may re-roll. If you roll a stronger version of a minor power you already have, you may keep the stronger power and re-roll the minor potion power it replaced.


Debby

Mangles
2012-12-18, 08:22 PM
Good suggestion. I have done it your way. They will just gain undead hit dice which is what I was giving them anyway. I'm tempted to add the same advancement to the Swarm as the Idle Hands. Haven't decided on a definite yet. Besides that unless anyone has any other ideas for this I think it is done.