XP for destroying a building

[ManInOrange]

I am the GM. One of my players has taken every feat or magical item to improve their sundering ability, and they have just inflicted the 120 damage necessary to destroy a wooden support beam, thus collapsing much of the building, killing the few people who were too stupid to leave.

My conundrum is that it doesn't seem reasonable to say she (Yes, she) doesn't get any experience for that, but it also doesn't seem reasonable that her XP should be dependent upon the number of people she killed, given that their CRs are not at all related to her success.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the RAW have absolutely no input on this particular issue.

Do you have any house rules or other D20 systems which might work as a good reference?
Are there any other aspects of the game that don't have rules for granting XP that you have a system for?

Do note that it's simply not reasonable for me to give her quest XP, because she's probably going to be doing this a lot more. I'm going to need a system or something.

[Yora]

One rule of thumb for giving XPs for finding ways to avoid difficult encounters is to award XP as would have been gained from overcoming an encounter of the same encounter level as the PCs character level. Divided by the number of characters in the party.

If it's a level 5 character in a 4 people party, make it 1/4th of an EL 5 encounter, or 375 XP. I would also cap it at the XP the character would have gained if the party had fought and defeated all the enemies they would usually HAD to fight otherwise.

[Chilingsworth]

How much damage does getting caught in a building collapse deal, anyway? Are you sure it's enough to kill the people inside? If it is, then well, she overcame them and is entitled to the XP reward for doing so.

On the other hand... She destroyed a building, where, in the middle of a city? Howabout giving her the opportunity to "get XP" by dealing with the entire town guard when it comes down on her with everything it has?

[Story Time]

Experience Points, as I under-stand it, are determined by how many metaphorical obstacles were over-come by the character. So...if the characters destroyed by the demolition were future-obstacles the quickest / fairest thing to do seems to be to calculate all of the experience points of the defeated character-obstacles-which-would-have-appeared-later, possibly divide it by half, and then give that sum to the character ( or divide it between the Party members ).

Yora's solution is...probably better. I'm not quite so versed in D-Twenty games.

[Lost in books]

If it is a clever idea in solving a challenge full xp.
If it is a tactic often used with minimal danger to the PC, use the diminishing return, It is very diferent to fight one on one 10 goblins than to burn them inside a trap. What new experience or lesson could the player gained from that?
And if it is blatantly a "cheesy" tactic, they get experience for an individual action and not for the collateral. "Hey let's go poison the well in this town, and when everyone dies we get the xp from their deaths. So let's see 1/2 CR x 300 for a party level 2 of 4 people.... 11k more or less? Wow!" Instead it should be ok you successfully poison the well, you earn 50 EXP.

Or something like that. Variations of this is up to the DM but yeah, I think we have gotten away with tactics like this once in a campaign, usually plot lines and it becomes quest xp versus individual CR.

Just my suggestions of course.

[NavyBlue]

A little off topic, but how did the player survive? Since she was presumably next to the beam, didn't the building collapse on top of her?

[Curmudgeon]

What DC did you set for the required Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) skill to properly identify a critical support beam? Most multi-story structures before modern times were built much more sturdily than required, because the builders lacked the engineering know-how to build it with the minimum necessary strength. That means that most any single support member could be removed and the surrounding structure would take up the load without failing catastrophically. Cutting one single beam might mean the floor laid over that beam would sag a bit, but nothing should fall down.

NavyBlue wondered how the player survived. I'm not concerned about that, since you didn't mention giving them a fatal whack with your DMG, but their character should have been within the affected area. Perhaps with a Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) check 10-20 points higher than that required just to find the critical support beam they might find a way to be just outside the fatal impact area.

As for the amount of XP involved: how much did the building fight back? The Challenge Rating of a piece of wood isn't very high. If you did your job properly to set the in-game skill challenge, then they should get the full measure of XP for enemies killed by being able to use their skills appropriately to meet that challenge. If (as I suspect) you failed this part of your DMing job, you've made the PC's challenge only that of fighting a piece of wood. Award them XP appropriately.

[KillianHawkeye]

I agree with Curmudgeon. I wouldn't give them XP for the creatures inside the building, even if none of them survived. If you allowed them to get away with this at all, I'd probably give an ad hoc XP award just for being creative and doing something awesome (maybe 100 to 500 depending on what level she is).

[ManInOrange]

So far, Yora's sounds the most reasonable. Thank you very much.
Just to answer questions:


How much damage does getting caught in a building collapse deal, anyway? Are you sure it's enough to kill the people inside? If it is, then well, she overcame them and is entitled to the XP reward for doing so.
The only people stupid enough to stay in were lvl 1-4 commoners. It was an inn.


On the other hand... She destroyed a building, where, in the middle of a city? Howabout giving her the opportunity to "get XP" by dealing with the entire town guard when it comes down on her with everything it has?

It WAS in the middle of a town. They're actually currently in a battle with the first wave of guards. However, just on principle, I feel that she should get rewarded somehow.


A little off topic, but how did the player survive? Since she was presumably next to the beam, didn't the building collapse on top of her?

8th level Barbarian. She made a Reflex save and blocked the other half with her chest.


What DC did you set for the required Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) skill to properly identify a critical support beam?

18. She HAS the skill. That's her thing, actually.


Most multi-story structures before modern times were built much more sturdily than required, because the builders lacked the engineering know-how to build it with the minimum necessary strength. That means that most any single support member could be removed and the surrounding structure would take up the load without failing catastrophically. Cutting one single beam might mean the floor laid over that beam would sag a bit, but nothing should fall down.

This is NOT something I thought about. I'll make sure to count this in when I'm deciding the fate of her next target. This will probably happen again. Unfortunately, I've already let the building collapse, so I can't very well say "Oh! That building didn't actually collapse, guys..."

[Chilingsworth]

If the victims were only level 1-4 commoners, they're only worth a smidgen of xp each, anyway.

Also, why did the character destroy the building, anyway? Are you running an Evil campaign?

[ManInOrange]

If the victims were only level 1-4 commoners, they're only worth a smidgen of xp each, anyway.

...given that their CRs are not at all related to her success.

It's not actually relevant that they died. The destruction of the building for the sake of throwing fear into the hearts of onlookers is really what deserves XP here. It terrifies me to think that it might qualify as "roleplaying XP".


Also, why did the character destroy the building, anyway? Are you running an Evil campaign?

No, I'm running a Chaos campaign. The goal of the campaign is to overthrow this city's uptight, overbearing guard and government. It is meant to be a very brief campaign, but I think the character in question is Chaotic Bipolar.

[weckar]

I think this really falls under the purview of roleplaying exp...

[vhfforever]

XP at GM's Discretion, honestly. She didn't overcome a 'challenge' and instead used an unconventional method to get a 'mass intimidate check' against some guards. XP is generally awarded when a challenge is overcome, so other reasons tend to fall into discretionary groupings.

[DarkestKnight]

I'd give a bit of XP for roleplay and creative solutions but would avoid at all costs saying anything about getting experience for destroying buildings. If you do, you may run the risk of them getting into the habit of wrecking the local architecture. And let's be fair here, they were likely going to try and kill a building anyways.