Late to the Party: Halo (Musings from the present on games from the past)

[Guildenstern]

Hey folks, Guildenstern here again. A few of you might remember the Let's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194841) Plays (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228338) I've done with my buddy Sir Mopalot also from these forums, or perhaps the campaign log (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238547) I posted on here a while back. But in the interest of keeping our blog updated with content and continually trying out new formats of writing, reviewing, and playing, I've got something new to share with you fine folks here at GitP who've been pretty great about supporting us as we've blundered our way through a number of games over the past few years.

This time I go back in time a bit as I explore the Halo franchise for the very first time. Despite the 11+ years the franchise has been around, I've never once picked up the game for more than an hour or two in multiplayer with a few friends. But the recent surge of publicity for Halo 4 got me thinking that maybe it was about time I finally checked this pillar of gaming culture out for myself. But despite the age of the game, I wanted to bring a sense of immediacy to what I was doing, so instead of just writing up some old-hat "retro review" I decided to post thoughts to my Twitter account (https://twitter.com/GU1LD3NST3RN) as they came to me. This resulted in a collection of raw, unfiltered thoughts that I'm starting to collect together over on the blog to A.) assess how the franchise really stacks up to a first-impression player and B.) have some fun with it. I've already got a few entries up for the first game and I'm hoping to keep this going through Halo 3, with newer thoughts being posted to a new Twitter account (https://twitter.com/Nerdwatch_show) I set up specifically for the blog. Give 'em a read if you're interested and I'd love to get some talk going about the game whether you're a Halo fan or not. The series has undeniably had an impact on the world of video games and it's the kind of impact that I love exploring and discussing with other people. Thanks, and enjoy.

Introduction (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/11/guildenstern-plays-halo.html)

Halo 1

Part I (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-part-i.html)

Part II (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-part-ii.html)

Part III (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-part-iii.html)

Part IV (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-part-iv.html)

Part V (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-part-v.html)

Part VI (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-part-vi.html)

Halo 2

Part I (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-2-part-i.html#more)

Part II (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-ii.html)

Part III (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-iii.html)

Part IV (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-iv.html)

Part V (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-v.html)

Part VI (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-vi.html)

Part VII (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-vii.html)

Part VIII (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-viii.html)

More coming soon

[Somebloke]

Just letting you know that I'm following your blog, and find it fun to read- looking forward to your fifth installment.

[Guildenstern]

Much appreciated. And I think you're more on top of my posting schedule than I am. Bravo, sir.

For those of you like me who tend to sleep much later than anyone ever should, Part IV (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-part-iv.html) is now up.

[Saph]

Heh. Well, that was entertaining enough to read, even if you spend the majority of the posts complaining. :)

As a long-term fan of the Halo series (I've played 1, 2, 3, ODST, and Reach all the way through at least twice each) I think the problem here is that you're massively over-analysing what are often quite trivial details. So minor bits that 95% of players would skip straight through, you spend long paragraphs documenting at exhaustive length.

A good example would be the point just after the cutscene where Cortana gets into the Halo mainframe and tells you to warn the Captain, followed by you running off and then taking a dropship to the swamp. In-game, this takes under 30 seconds, counting loading time, so the fact that you don't know why she's so agitated is quickly overridden by the fact that you're coming into another hostile LZ and getting a briefing from the dropship pilot. In your writeup, you've stopped to write half a page of close-packed text dwelling on how you don't know what's going on and why can't she radio you. Now, I do actually know why Cortana doesn't give you a call here, but the point is that you've literally spent more time analysing this brief snippet of the game than I've ever done in all of my multiple playthroughs.

Basically, what you're doing to the play experience here is like dissecting a frog. You learn a lot but the frog dies in the process.

[Guildenstern]

Oh, definitely. Over-analysis is kind of my bread and butter. The thing is, I'm kind of a strange personality when it comes to entertainment media: while I acknowledge the point that most folks play Halo just to have some easy fun with it, I actually have more fun in digging "too deep" and analyzing everything. I'll stick with your frog metaphor here: the frog may very well be dead, as you say, but the lab assistant doing the dissection now understands more about amphibian biology. Picking things apart and finding out how they work (or don't) is inherently part of the joy for me. As Socrates (might have) said: "The unexamined game is not worth playing".

But I totally acknowledge your point about the audience often not looking too closely and letting minor issues slide because that in itself is actually a staple of narrative design: if the rest of your product is good enough the small issues can be overlooked without shattering immersion, and in games that I'm more immediately involved with that will often apply to me the first time through. It's not until coming back later with a more focused critical eye that I find the bits that don't make sense. I give Halo a pretty rough time, but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy most of my time with the game and found a number of things actually quite good. I just also happen to enjoy ruthlessly tearing things to shreds.

Speaking of which, Part V (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-part-v.html) is now up and ready for those of you who've steeled yourselves for some more griping. And lots of it. Also, there might be tears.

[Saph]

Oh, definitely. Over-analysis is kind of my bread and butter. The thing is, I'm kind of a strange personality when it comes to entertainment media: while I acknowledge the point that most folks play Halo just to have some easy fun with it, I actually have more fun in digging "too deep" and analyzing everything.

How well did that work for you in Part V? :smalltongue:

The problem with spending too much time on analysis is that it can stop you from enjoying the good bits. In my first playthrough of Halo, my reaction to the Library was something like "More Flood . . . more Flood . . . oh not more Flood . . . please stop, I hate these things . . . oh thank god, it's over." And then you get the big reveal about Halo's purpose, which is still one of my favourite Big Reveal cutscenes in any game. "Wait, this ring does WHAT? With WHAT range?" Which made me forget about the Library completely, because I wasn't writing down the details.

You've actually gotten to my favourite bit of the game now. I tend to see the Library as the inevitable-but-annoying part in the story where the hero inadvertently helps the villain out with their plan (practically every game does it, so you just have to sit it out and wait for the good stuff). Once it's gone, you get a clear purpose again.

[Guildenstern]

The Library gave me nothing to dig for. I hit a septic line a few feet down and had to burrow through excrement for the next hour. There's just not a lot I can say about a boring, repetitive level without being boring and repetitive myself.

And the game does pick up a bit after this. You get to see the twist (which admittedly was needlessly obfuscated for about 2 1/2 hours just so it could eventually be a twist), you are presented with a clear problem (which you yourself nearly caused by way of being a blindly trusting rube) and then you get to solve it. The pacing is largely restored back to acceptable levels and all the awkward mystery-solving is done: you're just there to solve a problem and this directness is far better suited to the game, I think.

It still takes me a while to totally recover from the Library (if I ever do) but this is hardly a problem that's unique to Halo: Ocarina had the Water Temple, Dragon Age had the Fade, and KoTOR had that damned underwater section on Manaan. It's all just about how you recover afterwards, though it'd be better if games didn't give us sections like these to recover from.

[Provengreil]

The Library gave me nothing to dig for. I hit a septic line a few feet down and had to burrow through excrement for the next hour. There's just not a lot I can say about a boring, repetitive level without being boring and repetitive myself.

And the game does pick up a bit after this. You get to see the twist (which admittedly was needlessly obfuscated for about 2 1/2 hours just so it could eventually be a twist), you are presented with a clear problem (which you yourself nearly caused by way of being a blindly trusting rube) and then you get to solve it. The pacing is largely restored back to acceptable levels and all the awkward mystery-solving is done: you're just there to solve a problem and this directness is far better suited to the game, I think.

It still takes me a while to totally recover from the Library (if I ever do) but this is hardly a problem that's unique to Halo: Ocarina had the Water Temple, Dragon Age had the Fade, and KoTOR had that damned underwater section on Manaan. It's all just about how you recover afterwards, though it'd be better if games didn't give us sections like these to recover from.

Most people don't pick up on this, but there is one area where the Library shined IMO:

It showcased the flood in a scarier, better way than the halo games ever pulled off anywhere else.

You're fighting zombies in the dark. They come in huge numbers, from anywhere. You have a motion tracker, they show up halfway there. They're scarily accurate on the harder difficulties, there's hundreds of them, and you're actually quite pressed to survive, but it's too dark and, in a twist where crappier hardware actually makes it better, the graphics just don't let you inspect them easily without breaking pace after everything nearby is dead, and even then you can only get a moderately good view.

[Guildenstern]

You're fighting zombies in the dark. They come in huge numbers, from anywhere. You have a motion tracker, they show up halfway there. They're scarily accurate on the harder difficulties, there's hundreds of them, and you're actually quite pressed to survive

That's a pretty great point. If they'd cut this level down by half or maybe even 3/4 and made every encounter with the Flood more like this, where they really do come at you like a flood in dark, disconcerting environments, and then space those combat encounters out widely enough so that when you fought them you really felt the weight and importance of it then that could have been amazing.

I think they did an okay job with the settings where you fight them in later games, but the big issue was that they were just too common and felt like "just another enemy type" after a while. Familiarity breeds contempt as they say, and I felt pretty contemptible towards the Flood after this.

[RagingKrikkit]

It still takes me a while to totally recover from the Library (if I ever do) but this is hardly a problem that's unique to Halo: Ocarina had the Water Temple, Dragon Age had the Fade, and KoTOR had that damned underwater section on Manaan. It's all just about how you recover afterwards, though it'd be better if games didn't give us sections like these to recover from.

Everybody hates the water temple. I guess I can see why, but my biggest issue with is was pausing every thirty seconds, pressing A, and pressing start again. Other than that, it made sense to me, all the doors were in the open, no hidden passages or anything of the like. Maybe it was the vertical build? I honestly don't hate the water temple.

[Guildenstern]

I'd say the incessant inventory management was probably the biggest problem, yes. But I do remember getting lost quite a bit because all the doors and rooms are so conditional. You are basically manipulating the entire dungeon's layout repeatedly in order to get around and it can get a bit confusing. But I envy your ability to get around it easily.

Also, Part VI (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-part-vi.html) is now up, and I've got a few nicer things to say this time around.

[INoKnowNames]

Hm.... I should see if I can dust off my old Xbox. I remember Halo 1 being the best of the entire series, with it steadily declining in goodness, both in story and in some areas in gameplay (though in some areas it did improve) as time went on, with Reach being a step back in the right dirrection. Though, I haven't tried 4 just yet. Another family member might be getting it for Christmas.

Anywho, I wonder if Halo 1's as good now as it was back then, when I could barely get through the first 3 levels on Normal Mode. :P

[Somebloke]

For me 3 was easily the best in the series- the options the game presents you with, the massive battles- the multi-tank battle especially being a wonderful little set piece- and the way the flood were handled makes it my favorite.

Yeah, and the library sucked.

[Guildenstern]

Based on my impressions as a newcomer, I'd say all the things that made Halo good in 2001 still make it good today. I had my issues with the game, obviously, but it being severely dated wasn't one of them. If you've got nostalgia factor also at play then I'd say definitely go back and give it another run, I'm sure you'd have a blast with it.

Halo 2 and 3 will eventually be included in this little adventure, though, and I'll be sure to update here when I start that process. However, I don't think I'll be giving the same treatment to Reach or ODST simply because I consider those supplemental games and not part of the core of the franchise. I'll play 'em, but probably won't tweet 'em.

[Saph]

I thought both 1 and 3 tied for joint-best, though Reach was very good too. 2's probably the weakest in the series.

[Somebloke]

Based on my impressions as a newcomer, I'd say all the things that made Halo good in 2001 still make it good today. I had my issues with the game, obviously, but it being severely dated wasn't one of them. If you've got nostalgia factor also at play then I'd say definitely go back and give it another run, I'm sure you'd have a blast with it.

Halo 2 and 3 will eventually be included in this little adventure, though, and I'll be sure to update here when I start that process. However, I don't think I'll be giving the same treatment to Reach or ODST simply because I consider those supplemental games and not part of the core of the franchise. I'll play 'em, but probably won't tweet 'em.

Personally, Reach makes second-best in the series and easily fits within the main arc- it does a good job of filling in as a prequel, but it's your call of course.

ODST though can easily be missed, other than to geek out over the voice-suit actors.

[Guildenstern]

other than to geek out over the voice-suit actors.

It is for that reason alone that I'll be playing it.

[Thanatos 51-50]

ODST though can easily be missed, other than to geek out over the voice-suit actors.

See, ODST was, in theory, what I had been hoping for ever since the first Halo. I wanted to play a Halo game wherein the PC was some bog-standard, wet-tissue paper tough Marine, not a super-strong SPARTAN uber-soldier.
What we got was, instead, just normal Halo with the difficulty turned up a half-degree, because not being a SPARTAN means that your weapons now shoot tender kisses and warm embraces instead of frickin' bullets.

[Guildenstern]

See, ODST was, in theory, what I had been hoping for ever since the first Halo. I wanted to play a Halo game wherein the PC was some bog-standard, wet-tissue paper tough Marine, not a super-strong SPARTAN uber-soldier.
What we got was, instead, just normal Halo with the difficulty turned up a half-degree, because not being a SPARTAN means that your weapons now shoot tender kisses and warm embraces instead of frickin' bullets.

While I can't speak much on ODST (or the others, again we'll get to that: y'all are way ahead of me right now) I was kind of afraid that this would be the case. See, I'm starting to get the idea that the Halo brand is capable of having a lot of different branches coming off of it, as they've already got books, comics, an anime, and one RTS game. ODST probably could have best been handled if Microsoft sourced it out to another developer with a different style that made it more of a tactical squad game or something (note that I don't know who actually owns the rights to Halo, whether it's Bungie or MS or whatever). I think over time this'll probably become standard as Halo becomes similar to the Star Wars brand which has so many different pieces and styles of media all over the place, but as early as ODST it was still very much "Spartan-style" gameplay, which I guess is something of a missed opportunity. Again, this is all just based on nothing more than passing visual inspection and hearsay, but that's my un-initiated stance.

Also, good to see you again, Thanatos, thanks for chipping in.

[RagingKrikkit]

While I can't speak much on ODST (or the others, again we'll get to that: y'all are way ahead of me right now) I was kind of afraid that this would be the case. See, I'm starting to get the idea that the Halo brand is capable of having a lot of different branches coming off of it, as they've already got books, comics, an anime, and one RTS game. ODST probably could have best been handled if Microsoft sourced it out to another developer with a different style that made it more of a tactical squad game or something (note that I don't know who actually owns the rights to Halo, whether it's Bungie or MS or whatever). I think over time this'll probably become standard as Halo becomes similar to the Star Wars brand which has so many different pieces and styles of media all over the place, but as early as ODST it was still very much "Spartan-style" gameplay, which I guess is something of a missed opportunity. Again, this is all just based on nothing more than passing visual inspection and hearsay, but that's my un-initiated stance.

Also, good to see you again, Thanatos, thanks for chipping in.

Tom Clancy's Halo: ODST

[Guildenstern]

Tom Clancy's Halo: ODST

The Covenant are going to detonate a hi-yield low-altitude nuclear EMP terrorist dirty pulse bomb inside the president's internet (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/04/19).

Also, we're done! (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-part-vii.html) With Halo 1, anyway. I'll dive into 2 and 3 soon and we'll keep this train moving.

11 years behind schedule, but still.

[RagingKrikkit]

The Covenant are going to detonate a hi-yield low-altitude nuclear EMP terrorist dirty pulse bomb inside the president's internet (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/04/19).

Sounds like something Hideo Kojima would come up with.

[Saph]

Also, we're done! (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-part-vii.html) With Halo 1, anyway. I'll dive into 2 and 3 soon and we'll keep this train moving.

Well, it was entertaining, but I think I'm going to stop following here. If you found Halo 1 this unsatisfying, you're probably going to be even less happy with 2 and 3, and the prospect of a non-stop stream of complaints doesn't sound much fun to read. Sorry!

[Guildenstern]

Sounds like something Hideo Kojima would come up with.

If your brain didn't melt from reading that then it's not quite at Kojima-levels. (I jest, because I do somewhat enjoy the MGS games, but that guy's writing really is pretty terrible). I kind of want to do something like this for MGS but I'm just not sure what yet.

Also, if you've ever read a Tom Clancy novel then sometimes the plots aren't too far removed from that. Rainbow Six, while good, is legitimately about eco-terrorists.


Well, it was entertaining, but I think I'm going to stop following here. If you found Halo 1 this unsatisfying, you're probably going to be even less happy with 2 and 3, and the prospect of a non-stop stream of complaints doesn't sound much fun to read. Sorry!

Hey, no worries. Ultimately there was a lot more bile in this than I intended and while I knew the Halo franchise is much-loved with a lot of people and therefore this probably wouldn't be welcomed with open arms, I just wanted to do this for the heck of it regardless. Thanks for dropping in anyway.

[RagingKrikkit]

If your brain didn't melt from reading that then it's not quite at Kojima-levels. (I jest, because I do somewhat enjoy the MGS games, but that guy's writing really is pretty terrible). I kind of want to do something like this for MGS but I'm just not sure what yet.

Also, if you've ever read a Tom Clancy novel then sometimes the plots aren't too far removed from that. Rainbow Six, while good, is legitimately about eco-terrorists.

My personal favorite plot setup is The Bear and the Dragon, which goes something along the lines of:


Oh, we killed a [Religious position] and a [Religious position]? Oh, bo hoo, cry me a river. Wait, why are you not outsourcing to us anymore?! Fine, be that way, Ima go invade Russia!

[Somebloke]

If your brain didn't melt from reading that then it's not quite at Kojima-levels. (I jest, because I do somewhat enjoy the MGS games, but that guy's writing really is pretty terrible). I kind of want to do something like this for MGS but I'm just not sure what yet.

Also, if you've ever read a Tom Clancy novel then sometimes the plots aren't too far removed from that. Rainbow Six, while good, is legitimately about eco-terrorists.



Hey, no worries. Ultimately there was a lot more bile in this than I intended and while I knew the Halo franchise is much-loved with a lot of people and therefore this probably wouldn't be welcomed with open arms, I just wanted to do this for the heck of it regardless. Thanks for dropping in anyway.

Years of Zero Punctuation has more or less insulated me from seeing a beloved game ripped to pieces...keep up the good work. Hope you find Halo 2 less annoying.

[RagingKrikkit]

Oh, he'll love it... except for the exposition dumps, the constant character jumping, and of course the ending.

[Somebloke]

My personal favorite plot setup is The Bear and the Dragon, which goes something along the lines of:

You forgot the part where America puts a trade embargo on Chinese goods and it's fine, because everyone knows all China produces is cheap knock-off-teddy bears!

Or when the Chinese people spontaneously overthrow their government with the Power of Net.

...actually, I think I prefer Halo's writing more than Clancy's.

(Okay, Red Storm Rising was badass).

[RagingKrikkit]

You forgot the part where America puts a trade embargo on Chinese goods and it's fine, because everyone knows all China produces is cheap knock-off-teddy bears!

Or when the Chinese people spontaneously overthrow their government with the Power of Net.

...actually, I think I prefer Halo's writing more than Clancy's.

(Okay, Red Storm Rising was badass).

Hey, Hunt for Red October was good, too. Clear and Present Danger, Without Remorse... I think that it only started to go downhill once it got to Executive Orders.

[Guildenstern]

Oh, he'll love it... except for the exposition dumps, the constant character jumping, and of course the ending.

Great, don't oversell it or anything.

But I am actually looking forward to it. I'm interested to see how much the games evolved over time, if indeed they did so. At any rate, keep your eyes here (https://twitter.com/Nerdwatch_show) over the next couple days, as I'll probably be starting soon.

[Kjata]

Great, don't oversell it or anything.


Well, I used to be a pretty big Halo fan, back in the day (pre 360), and Halo 2 was my favorite, being quite a bit ahead of number 1 and WAY ahead of number 3... But that was because of XBL. Taken from a campaign standpoint, i think Halo is better. However, you DO get to use those swords in 2, so thats a pretty big plus.

[Guildenstern]

However, you DO get to use those swords in 2, so thats a pretty big plus.

That's how you sell it. 'Bout time Chief figured out how to pick up pointy objects. (Normally I'd discredit a sword as being completely stupid in a universe where automatic weapons are prevalent but Halo's firearms already make no sense so I'll gladly welcome them here.)

[Somebloke]

Great, don't oversell it or anything.

But I am actually looking forward to it. I'm interested to see how much the games evolved over time, if indeed they did so. At any rate, keep your eyes here (https://twitter.com/Nerdwatch_show) over the next couple days, as I'll probably be starting soon.

Ah, it ain't that bad.

Plot wise the universe gets expanded upon, and you can tell the developers expected a Halo 3- you can actually see them take the time to write a more complex plot.

And I never got the Arbiter-hate.

[Kjata]

And I never got the Arbiter-hate.

I think it's less hate, and more "who the hell is this? I wanna be the Master Chief!"

[RagingKrikkit]

That's how you sell it. 'Bout time Chief figured out how to pick up pointy objects. (Normally I'd discredit a sword as being completely stupid in a universe where automatic weapons are prevalent but Halo's firearms already make no sense so I'll gladly welcome them here.)

The fluf is that the sword is a ceremonial weapon, but it was so OP in Halo 2 that it quickly became (almost) everyone's weapon of choice.

[Guildenstern]

And I never got the Arbiter-hate.

See, this is kinda why I'm doing this: I didn't even know there was Arbiter hate.

Or an Arbiter.

Seriously, I am really clueless about Halo.

But that ends today because the live-tweeting of Halo 2 starts right now on the Nerdwatch Twitter page (https://twitter.com/Nerdwatch_show).

Hopefully this'll go a little better.

[Somebloke]

And now you've met the Arbiter.

Who arbitrates. Somehow.

With an energy sword.

Interesting tweets- are you going to expand on them, or leave them as is?

[Grif]

Ah, it ain't that bad.

Plot wise the universe gets expanded upon, and you can tell the developers expected a Halo 3- you can actually see them take the time to write a more complex plot.

And I never got the Arbiter-hate.

Same. Was the hate so intense that they completely wrote him into a secondary role in HALO 3? I always thought the Arbiter levels made for a very refreshing change of pace and perspective.

[Guildenstern]

And now you've met the Arbiter.

Who arbitrates. Somehow.

With an energy sword.

That's how I do my arbitratin'.

It's also why I'm not allowed on jury duty anymore.


Interesting tweets- are you going to expand on them, or leave them as is?

Yeah, I'll be doing the same thing for this bout of tweeting as I did for the last, I just gotta finish up the game first and then I can get around to writing something a bit more substantial.

I might be able to get in some play time later today, but if not then I'll continue after Christmas, of which I hope you all have a merry one.

[Somebloke]

That's how I do my arbitratin'.

It's also why I'm not allowed on jury duty anymore.



Yeah, I'll be doing the same thing for this bout of tweeting as I did for the last, I just gotta finish up the game first and then I can get around to writing something a bit more substantial.

I might be able to get in some play time later today, but if not then I'll continue after Christmas, of which I hope you all have a merry one.

Same to you.

I personally cheated the **** out of Christmas and opened my present early- Halo 4. I really enjoyed it, although it lagged in parts. I have to say I like the subtle little differences that 343 brings to the game.

They're pretty damn subtle, though. Not a lot of changes from Reach.

[darksolitaire]

I came late to this topic :smallbiggrin:


Yeah, I'll be doing the same thing for this bout of tweeting as I did for the last, I just gotta finish up the game first and then I can get around to writing something a bit more substantial.


Eagerly waiting, I enjoy reading these from some unexplained reason.

Reading your thoughts makes me happy that I played Halo 1 when I did and not now. I still remember the feeling that there was much going on and I wasn't being told anything. Bungie didn't include decent story cut scenes in the original Halo, so that was a major improvement for Halo 2. Much of the story of Halo 1 is really obscure and not included in the game itself, including the story of the Arbiter and covenant-flood conflict happening in the orbit of Halo. If you find yourself wondering something while playing, it's not much consolation to know that it's explained in universe by some book you're never going to read.

[Telok]

Did the sequels ever get released for PCs? I enjoyed Halo but my hands are ill suited to console controllers and I generally dislike the console market.

Although Halo is not without warts. After the second or third bit of copy/pasta architecture during the Flood levels I was thinking like a level builder, "so there will be a clump around that corner, and when I pass that spot some more will spawn over there, then when I get there a batch will spawn behind me. I'd totally trade one of Master Chief's testicles for a claymore mine right now." Plus on some of the maps I kept finding areas that the enemies wouldn't go into. I was really rather funny to sit behind a rock and just lob grenades at passing enemies who could never seem to figure out why the magic grenade rock hated them.

[darksolitaire]

Did the sequels ever get released for PCs? I enjoyed Halo but my hands are ill suited to console controllers and I generally dislike the console market.

Halo 2 was released to windows vista to show renewed support for PC gaming from Microsoft. Funny how long that support lasted. None of the other sequels were ever released on PC again.

[Guildenstern]

Hey everybody, hope you all enjoyed your respective Christmases (or other such festivities). But as promised, I've started collecting my thoughts on Halo 2, the first part of which you can find here (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2012/12/late-to-party-halo-2-part-i.html#more).

Hope you enjoy reading, and everybody have a happy New Year. Don't drink and drive.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Er...
Just a quick nitpick:
"Master Chief Petty Officer" is the highest enlisted rank in the (Real Life) US Navy and the (fictional) UNSC.

[Guildenstern]

Er...
Just a quick nitpick:
"Master Chief Petty Officer" is the highest enlisted rank in the (Real Life) US Navy and the (fictional) UNSC.

Sure, but you'd think somebody would have put this guy forward for a battlefield commission, right? The other Marines all seem to follow him without a lot of question already and I would imagine that "saving the galaxy" (even if he did almost destroy it to begin with) would probably be enough credit to bump him to Lieutenant JG or something.

[Thanatos 51-50]

And dock his pay? The Marines follow him because he is in charge there is, presumably, still OCS and enlisted to officer programmes Chief likely does not qualify for. Perhaps there is legislature in place to keep SPARTAN IIs from joining the officer's mess.

The transition from enlisted to officer is not a thing that's done nearly as often or as quickly and easily as media implies.

[Guildenstern]

And dock his pay? The Marines follow him because [I] he is in charge[\i] there is, presumably, still OCS and enlisted to officer programmes Chief likely does not qualify for. Perhaps there is legislature in place to keep SPARTAN IIs from joining the officer's mess.

I actually looked it up on a whim and apparently Spartans have been bumped up to officer before. So it's not completely out of the question.


The transition from enlisted to officer is not a thing that's done nearly as often or as quickly and easily as media implies.

Certainly not, but it can happen; and in a time of war like what's being presented in the Halo fiction one would assume that promoting a few soldiers for meritorious action would be a good morale boost for everybody, letting 'em have their heroes so to speak. And again, I'd say that pretty much single-handedly saving the galaxy is a pretty good example of "above and beyond the call of duty". Now, I don't know how much time has passed between the first and second games so if it's only a couple of days or so then that would be understandable.

I suppose it's also possible that he just flat-out refused any kind of commission offered to him but I don't know enough about his nearly non-existent character to say whether that would be a reasonable assumption or not.

Lot of possibilities and ultimately it's not important at all, just something I mused over a bit.

[Tiki Snakes]

I suppose it's also possible that he just flat-out refused any kind of commission offered to him but I don't know enough about his nearly non-existent character to say whether that would be a reasonable assumption or not.

Lot of possibilities and ultimately it's not important at all, just something I mused over a bit.

Yeah, I totally see Mastercheif rejecting an offer of commission out of hand without even having to think about it. Presumably this would be on his psyche file somewhere.

And if I can remember back far enough to recall how Halo 2 starts, I'm pretty sure it's a very short time later. Not hours, but short. (Doesn't it start with MC attending a ceramony to be decorated for events in Halo 1?)

[darksolitaire]

And if I can remember back far enough to recall how Halo 2 starts, I'm pretty sure it's a very short time later. Not hours, but short. (Doesn't it start with MC attending a ceramony to be decorated for events in Halo 1?)

Surprisingly much happens between Halo and Halo 2. Survivors from Halo nuke Covenant command-and-control center and fleet in operation first strike, for example.

[Guildenstern]

Part two (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-ii.html), in which I finally understand all the bitching about the pistol.

[Somebloke]

Part two (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-ii.html), in which I finally understand all the bitching about the pistol.

Yeouch.

You will be happy to know that dual-shooting doesn't appear out of Halo 2.

Also, I never really picked up on the flirting thing.

Enjoying these.

[Guildenstern]

You will be happy to know that dual-shooting doesn't appear out of Halo 2.

Good, my brain is really only trained to handle one trigger at a time.


Also, I never really picked up on the flirting thing.

Play it again and just listen to Keyes' voice inflection. You just know there was somebody in a sound director's booth telling the VA "Okay, good, now say it again but more sultry" just because they knew this game was laser-targeted for teenage males.

I'm not the kind of guy to look for sexism in everything, you understand, but sometimes this kind of thing is just pretty unnecessary.

[DaedalusMkV]

I don't mean to nitpick your nitpick, but... Wait, no, that's exactly what I'm doing.

The simple fact is, that bigass honking railgun (which is actually a Coilgun per the novels, but I digress) would actually have no muzzle report (aka bang) to speak of, since it's being fired in a vacuum and there's no air particles for it to displace to produce the sonic shockwaves that make guns so loud. Since it's a coilgun, all you'd be hearing is the mechanical noises from the loading mechanism, humming from the coils and the creaking and groaning of the station's superstructure as it handles the strain of recoil. Really, the sound would be pretty much the same anywhere on the station.

As for the bomb, the Covenant have never cared in the slightest for practicality. I'm surprised you're still mentioning that when basically every single Covenant thing ever is about style over practicality. Just wait until you get to see their dedicated APC...

[Guildenstern]

The simple fact is, that bigass honking railgun (which is actually a Coilgun per the novels, but I digress) would actually have no muzzle report (aka bang) to speak of, since it's being fired in a vacuum and there's no air particles for it to displace to produce the sonic shockwaves that make guns so loud.

Think I mentioned that since I can somehow still hear everything and move around as if under normal gravity I was just gonna assume that there was some kind of atmosphere around the station. Not sure how, mind you, but if nothing else sounds acts like a vacuum then I can't really treat this one element like it is.


Since it's a coilgun, all you'd be hearing is the mechanical noises from the loading mechanism, humming from the coils and the creaking and groaning of the station's superstructure as it handles the strain of recoil. Really, the sound would be pretty much the same anywhere on the station.

I'll concede to that, since I didn't actually know what kind of weapon it was and every other item in the UNSC arsenal seems to still use the old "big badda boom" powder and bullet recipe I just went off that. I suppose I do call it a railgun myself, so that's on me for using terminology a bit willy-nilly.


As for the bomb, the Covenant have never cared in the slightest for practicality. I'm surprised you're still mentioning that when basically every single Covenant thing ever is about style over practicality. Just wait until you get to see their dedicated APC...

Yeah, but "huge freaking spikes" were never really a part of that aesthetic (ignoring the needler, but that gets a pass since the spikes *are* the weapon). The bomb was like suddenly having heavy metal motiff suddenly injected into what had previously been a veritable pride parade of design decisions on the part of the Covenant. If DARPA was headed by a 13-year-old with rob zombie posters in his room, this is what I imagine all our weapons would look like.

You're right, not much the Covenant does is practical: but I still found myself laughing at how silly this thing looked.

[DaedalusMkV]

Think I mentioned that since I can somehow still hear everything and move around as if under normal gravity I was just gonna assume that there was some kind of atmosphere around the station. Not sure how, mind you, but if nothing else sounds acts like a vacuum then I can't really treat this one element like it is.

Come up with whatever justification you want for the moving around on the outside of the hull and hearing bit; heck, Dead Space this aint and being able to hear the enemies is a critical audio clue in this sort of game. There's no way in hell the Super-MACs could ever be fired in an atmosphere. Nonsensical as it may be, those things fire projectiles with the kinetic energy equivalent to a strategic nuclear warhead. Trying to fire it in atmosphere would just kill everyone within a mile or so from the shockwave and tear the station to ribbons.



I'll concede to that, since I didn't actually know what kind of weapon it was and every other item in the UNSC arsenal seems to still use the old "big badda boom" powder and bullet recipe I just went off that. I suppose I do call it a railgun myself, so that's on me for using terminology a bit willy-nilly.

Yeah, the books go into a lot more detail on all this stuff, as you'd expect. The UNSC does mostly use chemically-propelled weapons, and the only time they pull out the magnetic accellerators is for their biggest space weapons. I'd not expect you to have read them, but if you're going to overthink things you might as well do it with all of the info available.



Yeah, but "huge freaking spikes" were never really a part of that aesthetic (ignoring the needler, but that gets a pass since the spikes *are* the weapon). The bomb was like suddenly having heavy metal motiff suddenly injected into what had previously been a veritable pride parade of design decisions on the part of the Covenant. If DARPA was headed by a 13-year-old with rob zombie posters in his room, this is what I imagine all our weapons would look like.

You're right, not much the Covenant does is practical: but I still found myself laughing at how silly this thing looked.

Ah, but there's a whole 'nother Covenant race you haven't met yet, and they've got a slightly different tech motif... Not that you're wrong. It really would have been better to keep the sleek, rounded look going as the Covenant's visual style, at least at this point of the game. You'll see a few more things like that bomb before this game is done, and a hell of a lot more in Halo 3, though.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I figured the bomb-spikes were so the bomb could be launched and embedded in something.

If nothing else, their purpose here is to keep the thing from rolling around the deck all willy-nilly, as smooth thins are wont to do.

[RagingKrikkit]

Last night, I read your tweets, and then sat through the last 8 missions for the first time myself. So, I'll just post snippets of your tweets and give my thoughts.


Does this thing fire bullets or freight trains?

Best part is it's an OHKO on hunters if you hit their weak spot.


Assault rifle shoots hugs

The Halo 1 assault rifle goes down as my favorite rifle weapon in the game after the battle rifle, between 60-round mags (out of thirty to kill a minor elite) and a rate of fire that actually feels like an actual automatic weapon. I'm not a big fan of its accuracy, but I suppose that goes with the recoil something like that would have.


Grunts

Actual in-universe name is Ungogoy, so wiether or not that is better is up to you. I actually kinda like mowing down the hordes of screaming cowards, tension be damned. Although, I may be spoiled by Halo Reach (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPYIKxrg_88)


Warthog=Mako

Ah, I think that explains why I never had trouble with the Mako. I've been playing Halo split-screen with friends for seven or eight years now, plus when I got Reach a few months ago. That comes out to a lot of warthog driving.


Gunner accuracy

Well, you try manning a gatling gun from the back of a speeding all-terrain vehicle.


Variable zoom sniper

I never really had an issue with the sniper rifle, except for the part where I scope out if somebody so much as taps me on the shoulder. It's got a bigger reticle than the ones later in the series, which means that I can actually use it effectively, and even do some no-scopes (used all my ammo inside the Covenant ship after my rifle ran out.)


Covenant ship name

Yeah, they're all kinda like that.

Locked door

I got lost for about 15 minutes after that trying to find the other way.


Found the guy with the sword

I got lucky, because somehow I activated a checkpoint right before him that you didn't (I've noticed that Halo's checkpoint system sucks like that). I then went back at him with a rocket launcher.


1-hit kill enemy that runs faster than you

I hate those things.


Identical rooms

I *think* I've seen worse, but it wasn't by much. Abotu six in I went "Is it over yet?"


Sharp stick is too advanced

No, it just self-destructs when the operator dies. You should look closely for any fragments that might be salvaged for your own development programs.

fists made of adamantium

I tried punching out a guy in Reach who was freaking out and pointing a magnum at his head, and made the same mistake.


Zombies

The funny thing about the flood is that it's probably the best-executed part of the game. They have a half-decent buildup, a genuine "Oh, crap" factor when you see them charging you or a rocket flies past your head, and are develpoed well enough in-universe that I don't go into my usual "Zombies don't run!" objection.


Where the heck am I going?

However, this is let down my poor level design.


The library

Time to redo my Water Temple statement: I can see why people hated it, but I didn't have a problem with it at all. Unless, of course, you're playing on Legendary.


Index and contrived plot twists

Nothing to add here.


Halloween themed part of the ring

The only part of the game where I used the flashlight for extended periods.


Enemies on Pillar of Autumn

Let's see, the sentinels would be there to stop the Chief, the Covenant maybe because they were running from the Flood (although into cramped corridors probably wasn't a good idea), and the Flood came to kill the elites, and hey lookie the player's here too.


Hiding in vents

I was doing that a mission ago.


Invisible zombies

I got lucky. I saw it moveing, and shot it in the back. But when it dies, lo and behold it was a Flood instead of an elite. I turned around, and saw even more of them coming at me. Good thing I was in the armory.


Final room

I guess I've gotten a bit used to an invincible enemy taunting you while you try to complete a mission. Anyway, I liked the engineering sequence: it had the feel of a crazy three-way battle, with the Chief desperately fighting his way through the chaos so that he can save the galaxy. It was at the least an average take on the inanimate final boss.


This ship makes no sense

Yeah, pretty much. Although rushing the last 100 meters on foot with 20 seconds to go was a little bit impressive.

[Guildenstern]

Point-by-point summation of the entire Halo 1 tweeting process.

Wow, dude. That's a pretty decent marathon session. Nice.

And really I always love it when anything we do over on the site can encourage people to go back and play said game again (or at the best of times try it for the first time).

Anyway, Part III (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-iii.html) of Halo 2 is now up. Next time we'll get back to the Arbiter and hopefully raise my spirits a bit.

[Artanis]

Actual in-universe name is Ungogoy, so wiether or not that is better is up to you. I actually kinda like mowing down the hordes of screaming cowards, tension be damned. Although, I may be spoiled by Halo Reach (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPYIKxrg_88)

I always figured the Grunts were the smart ones. Think about it: Grunts are the only ones who even consider running for their lives when confronted with a superhuman badass who has blasted his way through hundreds of the Covenant's best warriors. :smalltongue:

[RagingKrikkit]

I always figured the Grunts were the smart ones. Think about it: Grunts are the only ones who even consider running for their lives when confronted with a superhuman badass who has blasted his way through hundreds of the Covenant's best warriors. :smalltongue:

They also run away whenever a cookie-cutter NPC marine does anything competent. So, while they may be on to the right idea, they need some discretion in its application.

EDIT: *Starts reading the Halo 2 update, sees first use of spartan*

I *think* that they mention that the Chief is a spartan in the Halo 1 manual. You know, the paper booklet thingy that comes with the game. The thing nobody reads?

EDIT 2: That thing you jumped on is called a scarab. You have lots of fun with them in Halo 3.

[Guildenstern]

I always figured the Grunts were the smart ones. Think about it: Grunts are the only ones who even consider running for their lives when confronted with a superhuman badass who has blasted his way through hundreds of the Covenant's best warriors. :smalltongue:

Hah, totally valid.

[Somebloke]

Ah, grunts. Well, they do change tack a little in 3...but it's much more fun for you to find out for yourself.

[RagingKrikkit]

Ah, grunts. Well, they do change tack a little in 3...but it's much more fun for you to find out for yourself.

Dat scream...

[Guildenstern]

Part IV (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-iv.html). Whose plasma sword do we get to use in this installment? I'm thinkin' Arby's.

[shadow_archmagi]

Note that actually every weapon in halo 2 has a lunge. The sword has a much, much longer lunge (as soon as the reticle goes red you can lunge and it's something like ten feet (I am very bad with measurements)), but it's all there.

It's also worth noting that whether you're standing still, running forward, or jumping affects how much damage your melee attack does, with midair hits being deadliest and standstill punches being least deadly.

[DaedalusMkV]

Part IV (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-iv.html). Whose plasma sword do we get to use in this installment? I'm thinkin' Arby's.

Does it help your understanding and appreciation for the plot if I remind you that you totally missed the fact that the "Heretics" Arbiter mission takes place in the same solar system as the first Halo, in a Covenant installation orbiting the gas giant that you occasionally got to see a cool glimpse of in Halo 1? And that's why there's Flood and Guilty Spark (the Covenant, being massive idiots, picked both of them up off the ruins of the Halo installation)?

No?

Okay then.

[Misery Esquire]

Our little blue Monitor friend is also shown floating around after the end credits of Halo : CE. His invunerability shield is just that good. :smalltongue:
I, am a genius. Ehe hee hee.

[Guildenstern]

Note that actually every weapon in halo 2 has a lunge. The sword has a much, much longer lunge (as soon as the reticle goes red you can lunge and it's something like ten feet (I am very bad with measurements)), but it's all there.

Wait, so stuff like the plasma carbine has a "lunge" effect? I think you might have lost me here, how does that work?


It's also worth noting that whether you're standing still, running forward, or jumping affects how much damage your melee attack does, with midair hits being deadliest and standstill punches being least deadly.

Well that's kinda cool. I guess I never really noticed the damage variance because everything I touched just kinda... died. Immediately. I suppose it'd be more noticeable on higher difficulties and tougher enemies, though?


Does it help your understanding and appreciation for the plot if I remind you that you totally missed the fact that the "Heretics" Arbiter mission takes place in the same solar system as the first Halo, in a Covenant installation orbiting the gas giant that you occasionally got to see a cool glimpse of in Halo 1? And that's why there's Flood and Guilty Spark (the Covenant, being massive idiots, picked both of them up off the ruins of the Halo installation)?

Was this explained in the game? If so then I apologize for missing it but still hold to the fact that it's just as stupid as if Grand Moff Tarkin showed up halfway through Empire Strikes Back. 343 was floating *inside* the thing that caused the ring to explode. If they wanted to bring him back that's fine as I do expect he has a larger role to play in this story. I just wish they'd found a way to do it that wasn't so ham-handed is all.

And the Flood... well, maybe they did end up repairing that ship we were on near the end of the first game and flying off. Dammit, Chief, I knew we should have wrecked that thing!


Our little blue Monitor friend is also shown floating around after the end credits of Halo : CE. His invunerability shield is just that good. :smalltongue:
I, am a genius. Ehe hee hee.

That is... slightly more palatable so I'm really glad you pointed that out as I didn't stick around for a post-credits scene. But those should really be easter eggs instead of vital plot points (credits = story over) and I still think it's dumb that he could have survived that. All it would have taken was a five-second cutscene of him floating off the ring to safety before the blast and this would have been so much easier to accept.

[DaedalusMkV]

Was this explained in the game? If so then I apologize for missing it but still hold to the fact that it's just as stupid as if Grand Moff Tarkin showed up halfway through Empire Strikes Back. 343 was floating *inside* the thing that caused the ring to explode. If they wanted to bring him back that's fine as I do expect he has a larger role to play in this story. I just wish they'd found a way to do it that wasn't so ham-handed is all.

And the Flood... well, maybe they did end up repairing that ship we were on near the end of the first game and flying off. Dammit, Chief, I knew we should have wrecked that thing!

It was explained in-game, it just wasn't in an immediately obvious way because it was all couched in Covenant terminology. So, instead of (paraphrasing) "The Heretics are lurking in the system where the Halo was and stole a bunch of stuff from the ruins" it becomes "These Heretics pollute the holy ground of the lost Great Device and have abducted the Oracle! They prevent us from undertaking the Great Journey!". It's totally forgivable not to notice it, though, since it's probably not something I would have gotten without background materials from the books.

As for the Flood, they're hard to kill. These particular Flood won't trouble you again, since the Covenant canonically annihilate them, but they survived on the shattered ruins of the Halo ring until curious Covenant ships went to investigate and picked them up.

[Misery Esquire]

And the Flood... well, maybe they did end up repairing that ship we were on near the end of the first game and flying off. Dammit, Chief, I knew we should have wrecked that thing!

The Marines crash that one, and it explodes, actually. Long story.

[shadow_archmagi]

Wait, so stuff like the plasma carbine has a "lunge" effect? I think you might have lost me here, how does that work?

If you're relatively near an enemy, and you hit melee, you'll automatically close the distance, just the same as with the sword, except that the swordlunge works over much longer distances. It even works in midair, and can give you an extra few feet of air if there's an enemy right next to the ledge that you can't quite jump onto.

EDIT: RE: Oracle Surviving: If I remember correctly, the "ruins" of the first Halo are shown to be more or less intact. Like, the ring is busted in half and floating in space, but there's still huge areas that were apparently entirely unscathed.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080630232542/halofanon/images/4/4d/Broken_Ring.jpg

EDIT EDIT: On closer inspection, it does appear to be speckled with smaller explosions. But still.

[Guildenstern]

If you're relatively near an enemy, and you hit melee, you'll automatically close the distance, just the same as with the sword, except that the swordlunge works over much longer distances. It even works in midair, and can give you an extra few feet of air if there's an enemy right next to the ledge that you can't quite jump onto.

Ah, gotcha. Reminds me of the VATS glitch in Fallout 3 where you'd sometimes teleport up a level to hit somebody in the face when using melee.


EDIT: RE: Oracle Surviving: If I remember correctly, the "ruins" of the first Halo are shown to be more or less intact. Like, the ring is busted in half and floating in space, but there's still huge areas that were apparently entirely unscathed.

I'll say it again: He was *inside* the ship. See that part of the ring that's gone? That's where he was floating. We only escaped because we stole a spaceship. Yes, there are a million and one possible justifications that could potentially explain him surviving but they're all so far-fetched and all happen off-screen so it doesn't really make the actual storytelling approach any better. Unless it's fundamentally designed that way to serve a purpose (Inception), forcing the audience to guess about major plot points is generally a no-no.

But in any event he's alive and I guess that's that. No sense in debating the point now, I'll just keep my weapon loaded for the next chance the game gives me to pop a few rounds in him.

[shadow_archmagi]

Inspired by your LP, I went back and played some Halo 2, since I have it on my PC now.

I keep finding tidbits of dialogue that greatly amuse me, that I don't remember ever stumbling across when I was playing through the first time. In particular, a marine once looked at a banshee and said "Aw, that's no good, I can see your feet!"

Oh bungee, lampshading the obvious design flaws of your own creations

[Guildenstern]

Inspired by your LP, I went back and played some Halo 2, since I have it on my PC now.

I keep finding tidbits of dialogue that greatly amuse me, that I don't remember ever stumbling across when I was playing through the first time. In particular, a marine once looked at a banshee and said "Aw, that's no good, I can see your feet!"

Hah, that's actually pretty good. I don't think I ever touched on this (or maybe I was waiting to do so until later, I can't recall now) but I honestly do love the Marines in the Halo games. Their aesthetic and a lot of their dialogue is so heavily borrowed from the gung-ho ridiculousness of the Marines from Aliens that it's kinda hard not to love 'em. Plus the AI is decent enough that giving them a high-powered weapon makes them actually somewhat useful in a fight.

[Guildenstern]

Hey folks, sorry this one's a little late (and perhaps a bit shorter) but my internet went down yesterday and I didn't have the time or the ability to write and upload a new post. But I'm back up now and I bring with me Part V (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-v.html).

[Misery Esquire]

Part V (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-v.html).

Everyone knows you can trust a blue floating ball who's probably a hundred thousand years old, and completely off his rocker. And immune to bullets. And insists th- You should just wait here a minute while I open this door, there's definitly not any zombies, that's just silly. Sentinels!

And the Scorpion is possibly the lightest, strangest, and weakest Future!Main Battle Tank that I have ever, ever seen*. It being airdrop-able is not overly surprising. Driving it is such great fun, though, that I wish there was a Imperial Guard ; Tank Commander game, so you could drive around in a Leman Russ, blowing the stuffing out of everything.

*Excluding the Covenant Wraith. Poor design in Spades, that one.

[Guildenstern]

The wraith seems like more of a mobile artillery piece than a tank, really.

And yeah, the scorpion is strange. I think it's "light-ness" is more a byproduct of the kind of floaty controls and not meant to be indicative of its actual physical weight. But its shape is so bizarre that I don't think it could be reasonably transported in the way we saw. Like I said, it's really not important at all but I had to chuckle a bit when I saw it flying in.

Seriously though, what really gets me about using that thing is the way all the ghosts that rush you react: hit 'em once and they're done but then a few seconds later they let out a high-pitched whine, spasm like crazy, and then detonate. It really feels like a physics glitch but I'm not sure how they'd miss something like "explosions cause physics glitches" when the game is roughly 60% explosions.

[shadow_archmagi]

I believe it's the ghost's hover generator overloading.

[RagingKrikkit]

It's like when the fuel tank blows up! Wait, cars don't actually do that...

[shadow_archmagi]

It's like when the fuel tank blows up! Wait, cars don't actually do that...

Oh, right! How could I be so foolish. Obviously the ghost's fuel tank, full of liquid hover, is what combusts.

[RagingKrikkit]

I did say like, meaning creates a big explosion.

[shadow_archmagi]

I did say like, meaning creates a big explosion.

No, this is canon now. I'm calling Michael Bay.

[Guildenstern]

No, this is canon now. I'm calling Michael Bay.

I second this motion.

[Guildenstern]

Well, you knew it was coming: Part 6: The Library Strikes Back (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-vi.html).

[DaedalusMkV]

Huh. I've gotta say, you seem to be the only other person in the history of ever that enjoys the Covenant sections more than the Master Chief sections. I mean, I'm pretty sure there was a reason the Arbiter wasn't a main character anymore in Halo 3, and that was endless Chief fanboy whining.

That said, I agree with you. The Covenant missions were interesting for a lot of reasons, not limited to the fact that all of a sudden those random Grunts were your friends. Your cowardly, useless little friends. Plus, Half-jaw is like the coolest Wark-er there is. So yeah, I enjoy the Arbiter sections too.

Elites? Not warm and cuddly? What're you talking about? They're clearly happy fellows designed to generate player empathy.

[Guildenstern]

Huh. I've gotta say, you seem to be the only other person in the history of ever that enjoys the Covenant sections more than the Master Chief sections. I mean, I'm pretty sure there was a reason the Arbiter wasn't a main character anymore in Halo 3, and that was endless Chief fanboy whining.

I'll admit, I'm a little bummed to know I won't get to play as Arby in the next one, but he definitely made Halo 2 more enjoyable for me. I give credit to Keith David.


Elites? Not warm and cuddly? What're you talking about? They're clearly happy fellows designed to generate player empathy.

Sympathy, maybe. I mean, it can't be easy going through life with a face that ugly. Imagine how people would treat you. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1wzQNzttSk)

[Misery Esquire]

On Libraries And Why They Conviently And Understandably Contain A HellTon Of Flood ;

They didn't, at first. The Librarian was one of the Forerunner leaders who thought that a bit of everything should be preserved, even if they're going to OMGWTFBBQ the galaxy. So, the Rings had Libraries of various animals and whatnot. Which the Flood got into and ate over the hundred thousand years. As far as I can tell, anyway. Someone else might have the proper explaination.

(Shield Worlds are a whole 'nother indecipherable mess)



Things are not looking good for old Arby, but who knows: maybe things will start looking up in the next entry?

Ahahahaha hahahaha hah ahah... Hah... Yes. Up.

[leafman]

Interesting tidbit, you mentioned the Brutes remind you of Donkey Kong, I don't remember which game it's in (probably ODST) but Marines will refer to them as Bravo Kilos or Baby Kongs. (the relationship being that DK was partially inspired by King Kong.)

[Somebloke]

A few thoughts:

a) In a way I wish the soldiers were less likeable...it would make the way that they constantly get wiped out in droves a lot less deperessing. This not only includes the end to Halo 1; I hate the way that every time you got a group of gung-ho marines, who would helpfully fight beside you and make amusing comments as you both shot up Covenant, would inevitably get picked off by snipers, taken out by ghosts, or ride along your tank and get torn to shreds when you're targeted by a Wraith. It makes the whole experience a lot nastier- I remember the Arbiter's big speech to his fellow Elites in the Library scene, and found myself thinking 'you poor fools. You're dead and you don't even know it'.

b) Speaking of the Library, I ended up using my invisibility power to skip a lot of the game...probably not what they had intended, but then again, if I played the game the way they had intended, I would have gotten very bored very easily.

c) The Library was, according to the terminal scenes in 'Halo: Anniversay Edition', there to study the Flood. So, it's a throwaway Easter Egg in a re-release of a game by a different company to the one who generated the level, and it doesn't really make sense anyway.

So honestly, what are you complaining about:smallwink:

[Guildenstern]

a) In a way I wish the soldiers were less likeable...it would make the way that they constantly get wiped out in droves a lot less deperessing.

Yeah, but if the other NPCs were competent then the game wouldn't be able to make you so much more ZOMGAWESOMESAUCE and continue to foster the superhero mindset of the player.

Ugh, Spec Ops has possibly forever ruined my perception of action games.


b) Speaking of the Library, I ended up using my invisibility power to skip a lot of the game...probably not what they had intended, but then again, if I played the game the way they had intended, I would have gotten very bored very easily.

Indeed you would have.


c) The Library was, according to the terminal scenes in 'Halo: Anniversay Edition', there to study the Flood. So, it's a throwaway Easter Egg in a re-release of a game by a different company to the one who generated the level, and it doesn't really make sense anyway.

So honestly, what are you complaining about:smallwink:

That fixes EVERYTHING. GAME OF THE EVER.

[RagingKrikkit]

When I played through anneversary, I did it on classic graphics, and got the classic experience. Then I reloaded the Library on remastered graphics, and it turned out that they lit the place the hell up and added glowing arrows to the floor so you don't get lost.

[Somebloke]

Yeah, but if the other NPCs were competent then the game wouldn't be able to make you so much more ZOMGAWESOMESAUCE and continue to foster the superhero mindset of the player.

Ugh, Spec Ops has possibly forever ruined my perception of action games.





I might suggest that you stick around to play Halo 4, as the new company (343 Industries) actually makes a genuine attempt to flesh out Master Chief's character, rather than make him a simple player avatar (it works. A little). Plus, they actually explore the dehumanization of the character in-universe, with one personal wondering just how psychologically damaged he must be after his experiences. Hell, they even lampshade the fact that the most humanising influence on his life is a piece of software.

Spec Ops: The Line it isn't, but it's a step above Combat Evolved.

[Guildenstern]

The penultimate post (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-vii.html). For Halo 2, anyway. We'll wrap up on Wednesday and then we'll see about polishing off this franchise so we can all move on with our lives.

[Misery Esquire]

The penultimate post (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-vii.html).

For some reason, imaging the MC suffering from "Call Center Fatigue" instead of PTSD at the end of the war, is hilarious right now, for me.

"Yes, yes. You're a Brute. I'll shoot you in the head a few times, you'll make the angry noise and charge me, I'll jump over you and melee."
~ ~ ~
"A dozen grunts. Oh, great."
~ ~ ~
"Jackal snipers. Whoopty doo."
~ ~ ~
"More Brutes. I'm really threatened. Really. No, I'm not being sarcastic at you."
~ ~ ~
"Hey, Elite guys, can I fight you inste- ...Flood? Oh."
~ ~ ~
"Flood... Flood... Flood... Ugh, I need to refill the coffee IV in this suit."
~ ~ ~
"Yes. I see you. You killed my Marine buddies. Very impressive. Can I kill you and leave, now? I'm late for Depopulating A Small City."

--Edit ;

Also, Halo 4 would be another good Halo game, if they only had actual weapon variety*, and changed about three words of (nonsequential) dialogue. The same word all threeish times.

*To be fair, I only realised this afterward when I went to play Halo CE Remastered, and noticed that Halo 4 had just the same guns in three different styles.

[shadow_archmagi]

I was rather fond of the way that the Library had two stages- it starts out brightly lit, and then becomes all dark and flood-y.

Arby is by far my preferred character. Both because he's a more interesting character, and because cloak adds a whole new way to play the game. Easiest level in the game to beat on Legendary is the last one, because cloak allows you to just assassinate (You DO know that one melee to an enemy's back kills them, right? Except for flood, naturally) everyone.

[Guildenstern]

*To be fair, I only realised this afterward when I went to play Halo CE Remastered, and noticed that Halo 4 had just the same guns in three different styles.

Really though, just about every game these days is pretty bad at differentiating between weapons. Because you can't really distinguish small things like grip angle and weight in a virtual setting and rate of fire and damage output are usually such small variables that choosing between an MP5 and a TDI Vector is basically a meaningless decision. Half Life 2 is probably the ur example of how to give your weapons meaningful differences.


Arby is by far my preferred character. Both because he's a more interesting character, and because cloak adds a whole new way to play the game. Easiest level in the game to beat on Legendary is the last one, because cloak allows you to just assassinate (You DO know that one melee to an enemy's back kills them, right? Except for flood, naturally) everyone.

I'm really glad to see that so many folks here like the Arbiter as well. And yeah, my brief exposure to the multiplayer did acquaint me with the assassination mechanic, and the cloak really does make that exploitable.

[Guildenstern]

Guys! Guys!

We're totally done with Halo 2. (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/01/late-to-party-halo-2-part-viii.html)

[RagingKrikkit]

Don't worry, Halo 3 explains a few of those plot holes.

[Misery Esquire]

It might tie everything together with one simple note ;

Ark. With a K.

I'll wait over here for the sudden realization. (Unless you already had it, and just didn't mention.)

[Guildenstern]

It might tie everything together with one simple note ;

Ark. With a K.

I'll wait over here for the sudden realization. (Unless you already had it, and just didn't mention.)

Whoops, yep, totally misspelled that. My bad.

As for the supposed sudden realization, I'm afraid whatever the game's trying to say is just going right over my head. The only thing I could think of is that they're trying to make a reference either to the Ark of Noah or that of the Covenant, but neither really makes sense: Noah's Ark was meant to preserve life on earth not destroy it, and the Ark of the Covenant was to hold the scrolls of the Ten Commandments. Neither can really be said to have parallels to the current situation. I mean, sure, maybe they will eventually but right now we only have a name, not a purpose.

[Misery Esquire]

As for the supposed sudden realization, I'm afraid whatever the game's trying to say is just going right over my head. The only thing I could think of is that they're trying to make a reference either to the Ark of Noah or that of the Covenant, but neither really makes sense: Noah's Ark was meant to preserve life on earth not destroy it, and the Ark of the Covenant was to hold the scrolls of the Ten Commandments. Neither can really be said to have parallels to the current situation. I mean, sure, maybe they will eventually but right now we only have a name, not a purpose.

Oh, honestly it was just a surprise to me when I was younger, realising that it was the Ark of the Covenant, and therefore on Earth. And then it's Halos, Prophets, and the Flood. (Noah's Ark, Flood, right?)

Just found it all tied together by borrowing the terms Judeo-Christian mythology and applying them liberally, but thematically.

[Guildenstern]

Oh, honestly it was just a surprise to me when I was younger, realising that it was the Ark of the Covenant, and therefore on Earth. And then it's Halos, Prophets, and the Flood. (Noah's Ark, Flood, right?)

Just found it all tied together by borrowing the terms Judeo-Christian mythology and applying them liberally, but thematically.

Eh, I'm not sure I see the actual thematic application. I mean, the Flood was divine retribution from God as punishment for man's evil not a sinister force of its own. Unless I'm mistaken, Halos aren't actually mentioned anywhere in the bible and are more of an artistic concept used by painters to visually signify divinity and were used for this purpose centuries before Christ. Similarly, prophets aren't strictly Christian either and are present in pretty much every religious order.

As for the Ark, again, we don't really know what it is yet. If it turns out that it was actually a place for people to hide during the firing of the Halo array then that would create a good parallel for Noah's Ark but as it stands we only know that it controls the firing of the rings which doesn't imply any kind of connection at all. And how do we know it's on Earth? The game cut back to Chief before we could find out where it was so the Ark of the Covenant connection doesn't work that way and would still be one hell of a stretch given that it was, again, simply a container for the scrolls of the Ten Commandments and a symbol of God's law as relayed through Moses. And then the Covenant themselves have no relation to the Ark of the Covenant because it's A.) the Ark isn't theirs and B.) presumably their name means only the agreement that allied all the different alien races together.

I don't expect every writer to be a biblical scholar or anything, but these are really all just words thrown in seemingly at random to give it the air of having a deeper meaning when in reality there isn't one.

[leafman]

It's a Noah's Ark reference, it has nothing to do with the Ark of the Covenant. Halo 3, if you pay attention to some of the dialog and read the terminals scattered through out the Ark, will explain how the Halo rings factor in to the Ark/Flood reference and some of why the humans are regarded as Reclaimers (Halo 4 explains more about the Reclaimers).

[RagingKrikkit]

Or, you caould play the game and not be confused by us babbling idiots.

[Somebloke]

Or, you caould play the game and not be confused by us babbling idiots.

To be fair, this IS the Internet.

[Somebloke]

I'm curious: what's your feeling of the gameplay of the series overall so far?

[Guildenstern]

I'm curious: what's your feeling of the gameplay of the series overall so far?

Mechanically, it's very good. Shooting feels intuitive, the shield/health system from the first game was actually great even if the second (and every other game since) has just abused the "regenerating health" idea like crazy. Weapon variance is also pretty good, with Covenant weapons providing a nice contrast to the UNSC weapons and each one seems to have a scenario in which it works brilliantly. The only real issue I have is that movement controls feel a bit floaty (and I'm not even talking about your jumping ability) but on a purely control-based level Halo is very good, though it doesn't really do anything new. Competent is the word I would use, I guess.

[shadow_archmagi]

though it doesn't really do anything new. Competent is the word I would use, I guess.

I'm told that the reason Halo feels unoriginal is because all of its new and cool ideas actually caught on and became commonplace.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I'm told that the reason Halo feels unoriginal is because all of its new and cool ideas actually caught on and became commonplace.

Something like that, yeah.
Original Halo's idea were new-ish when Original Halo did them. The sequels? Not so much, but you can't deviate from formula too much unless you're, say... Mass Effect.

That's right. I'm looking at you, Thermal Clips.

[Guildenstern]

I'm told that the reason Halo feels unoriginal is because all of its new and cool ideas actually caught on and became commonplace.

See, I'm thinking about it though and I can't think of anything that Combat Evolved did differently apart from the regenerating shields thing (and seriously, they did it right the first time don't know why they and everybody else had to change to regenerating health instead). I guess they also helped pioneer the two-weapon carry limit but whether that's a good or a bad thing is very much up for debate. Everything else we'd seen before in other games (Half-Life probably being the most notable example). Combat didn't evolve it just got a facelift.

I guess it did do a lot of new things from a multiplayer perspective but that's not really what I'm talking about here. I tend to take Yahtzee's stance and say that if you're going to include a single-player game (and let's face it, Halo's lore has gotten a lot of attention) then it'd better be worthwhile.


Original Halo's idea were new-ish when Original Halo did them. The sequels? Not so much, but you can't deviate from formula too much unless you're, say... Mass Effect.

That's right. I'm looking at you, Thermal Clips.

Don't get me started on thermal clips.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Doctor Verner concurs with your assesment of thermal clips.

[RagingKrikkit]

I like how ME2 make each weapon feel unique, rather than firing reskins of the same four guns, but yes... thermal clips.

Anyway, I finished the latest installment last night, and I would recommend you play Halo 4, or as I call it, Combat Evolved Done Right. It still retains the feeling of mystery and being stranded from the first, and does a number of things I think you will like, starting with: They gave the Chief a personality. He speaks more now, albeit primarily with Cortana, and the two of them playing off each other makes for some awesome character development. Then there is the plot twist, which is not ham-fisted at all, truly mind-screwing, and is a good premise for the rest of the trilogy. Oh, and you can actually cause physical harm to the BBEG.

[Guildenstern]

Oh, and you can actually cause physical harm to the BBEG.

Sold.

Though it dawns on me how much this is like my relationship with Bethesda games: I'm happy about being able to hurt the bad guy, but it's really like saying "wow, I've only crashed to desktop twice in the last few hours".

[Somebloke]

Sold.

Though it dawns on me how much this is like my relationship with Bethesda games: I'm happy about being able to hurt the bad guy, but it's really like saying "wow, I've only crashed to desktop twice in the last few hours".

Heh. The first five minutes of Halo 4 gives more characterization to Chief than the rest of the series combined. And this is without him even being present.

Still a hell of a lot less than most other games, but it's nice to see the direction that 343 Industries took.

[Guildenstern]

Heh. The first five minutes of Halo 4 gives more characterization to Chief than the rest of the series combined. And this is without him even being present.

This is simultaneously good praise for that game and a horrible indictment of the previous ones.

Anyway, before we get too far ahead of ourselves, we probably oughta address Halo 3, eh? Good idea, I'll get right on that. Tune in (https://twitter.com/Nerdwatch_show) to the live-tweeting if you'd like, or just wait for the blog posts.

[Somebloke]

This is simultaneously good praise for that game and a horrible indictment of the previous ones.

Anyway, before we get too far ahead of ourselves, we probably oughta address Halo 3, eh? Good idea, I'll get right on that. Tune in (https://twitter.com/Nerdwatch_show) to the live-tweeting if you'd like, or just wait for the blog posts. 343 actually seems to be making an effort on this part in general- those Easter eggs in their 'anniversary edition' of Halo are largely devoted to making Guilty Spark a sympathetic (!) character.

See you've met the new, improved flood- wonderful, how they can now covert people while they're still living, isn't it?

[RagingKrikkit]

Oh, how I knew you were going to enjoy (koffkoff) the return of the Flood. And, yeah, that whole scene with the wraiths and scarabs was actually a fairly awesome gameplay moment. Except, of course for that first time a scarab goes off in your face.

[leafman]

Out of curiousity, which difficulty are you playing on? If you aren't already, I would recommend playing through on Heroic, it's "the way Halo was meant to be played".

[Guildenstern]

Out of curiousity, which difficulty are you playing on? If you aren't already, I would recommend playing through on Heroic, it's "the way Halo was meant to be played".

Eh, I just stuck to normal. I'm not a "for the challenge" kind of gamer, so I'll play just about everything on normal until I really love it in which case I'll kick the difficulty up a bit. Mass Effect is still the only series I've ever finished on the highest difficulty setting, and even that was kinda just to round out the achievements I'd already gotten. Beyond that higher difficulties often strike me as kind of a chore, as they tend to result in far more deaths that seriously interrupt the flow of play. It's like having to stop for a commercial break a few dozen times during the most high-intensity part of the movie and it just kinda wrecks my engagement.

And besides that, I seem to have already finished the fight. You can look over all the tweets now on our Twitter page (https://twitter.com/Nerdwatch_show), and I should start moving forward with the last bit of complai- heh, writing pretty soon.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Out of curiousity, which difficulty are you playing on? If you aren't already, I would recommend playing through on Heroic, it's "the way Halo was meant to be played".

Statements like this piss me off. If you're balancing your game so that it' "Meant to be played" on any difficulty hgiher than Normal, you've balanced your game incorrectly and/or you are directly insulting your players by saying "Normal" is for people who should shut the hell up and L2P already.

[shadow_archmagi]

Statements like this piss me off. If you're balancing your game so that it' "Meant to be played" on any difficulty hgiher than Normal, you've balanced your game incorrectly and/or you are directly insulting your players by saying "Normal" is for people who should shut the hell up and L2P already.

Well, the difficulty is that different players have different expectations for what makes a game easy or hard- Even players with the same skill level. (IE: "Oh man, that level was hard! There were a couple times I came really close to dying!" vs "Oh man, that level was easy! I never even died.") I think that gaming companies will often prefer overrate their difficulty so as to spare the feelings of the players who can only beat it on "Easy."

On the other hand, I do agree with Guildenstern that Halo is a very cinematic game, and playing on Normal is fairly easy, it can definitely be more fun and feel more like you're an action hero. Legendary definitely feels like a chore.

[darksolitaire]

On the other hand, I do agree with Guildenstern that Halo is a very cinematic game, and playing on Normal is fairly easy, it can definitely be more fun and feel more like you're an action hero. Legendary definitely feels like a chore.

Legandary in Halo: few well places grenades, shotgun and perhaps a plasma pistol to remove shield and voilà!
Legandary in Halo 2: I just backstabbed elite with energy sword, it turned around and killed me with a single swipe with pistol but.

[RagingKrikkit]

Well, the difficulty is that different players have different expectations for what makes a game easy or hard- Even players with the same skill level. (IE: "Oh man, that level was hard! There were a couple times I came really close to dying!" vs "Oh man, that level was easy! I never even died.") I think that gaming companies will often prefer overrate their difficulty so as to spare the feelings of the players who can only beat it on "Easy."

On the other hand, I do agree with Guildenstern that Halo is a very cinematic game, and playing on Normal is fairly easy, it can definitely be more fun and feel more like you're an action hero. Legendary definitely feels like a chore.

Halo 2's Easy mode is insulting. You have about six times as much health as on normal. That is to say, you can take a gravity hammer to the face and keep moving on without a care in the world.

EDIT: Now play 4, and see what the change in developers did.

[Artanis]

Statements like this piss me off. If you're balancing your game so that it' "Meant to be played" on any difficulty hgiher than Normal, you've balanced your game incorrectly and/or you are directly insulting your players by saying "Normal" is for people who should shut the hell up and L2P already.
"Meant to be played" might be bad wording. I know that they've said that (at least in Halo 1) Heroic was where gameplay and fluff had the same balance. That is, if something took, say, five bullets to kill in the fluff, then it'd take five bullets to kill in Heroic.

[Tiki Snakes]

See, I'm thinking about it though and I can't think of anything that Combat Evolved did differently apart from the regenerating shields thing (and seriously, they did it right the first time don't know why they and everybody else had to change to regenerating health instead). I guess they also helped pioneer the two-weapon carry limit but whether that's a good or a bad thing is very much up for debate. Everything else we'd seen before in other games (Half-Life probably being the most notable example). Combat didn't evolve it just got a facelift.

I guess it did do a lot of new things from a multiplayer perspective but that's not really what I'm talking about here. I tend to take Yahtzee's stance and say that if you're going to include a single-player game (and let's face it, Halo's lore has gotten a lot of attention) then it'd better be worthwhile.

Purely off the top of my head mind, a brief list of things that were pioneered and/or populized by Halo 1.

Recharging shields.
Grenades having their own button rather than being another weapon to scroll to.
Melee having it's own button rather than being another weapon to scroll to.
Weapon limit (existing idea, see half life and also early plans for Rare's Goldeneye apparently).

Plus lots of little things like being one of the first decent attempts at bump mapping and all the fancy torch stuff. The amount of vehicle action was pretty close to unique too, and the quality of the ai (both enemy and ally) really did stand out as unusual.

Edit - It's hard to overstate what a game changer it was when Halo introduced the genre to the melee and grenade buttons.

[Guildenstern]

Well, the difficulty is that different players have different expectations for what makes a game easy or hard- Even players with the same skill level. (IE: "Oh man, that level was hard! There were a couple times I came really close to dying!" vs "Oh man, that level was easy! I never even died.") I think that gaming companies will often prefer overrate their difficulty so as to spare the feelings of the players who can only beat it on "Easy."

True, the concept of difficulty is very subjective. I'm apparently the image of "average player" since normal is almost always the best setting for me to play on without it being a cakewalk or a massacre. Maybe they are "overstating" their difficulty levels but I don't think the solution is to go back to the old days of arcade-style difficulty, where games were only 10-15 minutes long at most and you had to kill the player a million times for them to get any kind of longevity out of the game. Really, I'm pretty much fine with the way difficulty works now. I can play on "normal" and my buddy who loves to see what kind of crazy situations he can pull out of game can crank it up to the max and we can both adjust as needed.



On the other hand, I do agree with Guildenstern that Halo is a very cinematic game, and playing on Normal is fairly easy, it can definitely be more fun and feel more like you're an action hero. Legendary definitely feels like a chore.

See, I'm not even talking about the cinematic quality of the game or the "unstoppable hero" mindset lack of death can cultivate; I just don't like having my progress come to a grinding halt because I keep getting shot in the face. Of course, death/failure is part of the interactive element of video games and I don't really have a good across-the-board solution for how to alleviate some of the frustrations that come with that. Death needs to have some kind of penalty or otherwise it's meaningless, but having to sit through a lengthy death animation, a loading screen, and then re-do potentially long sections of gameplay, often times over and over again before you succeed is like, the anti-fun. And don't even get me started on if the save point is before a long, un-skippable cutscene. Nothing about any of that is any fun at all for the player, which is why I tend to avoid "nightmare" difficulty settings. I play games to relax and have fun, not to artificially bolster my confidence because I was able to beat Kangaxx on the highest difficulty level.

[shadow_archmagi]

So, apparently saavy sneaky programmer types have noticed some new additions to the Steam network- Namely that there's now a community hub for halo 1 2 and 3, which either means Steam is adding support for non-PC games, or there's a port coming into port!

[Guildenstern]

Hey all: just checkin' in to let you know I'm not dead. This week was a bit crazy thanks to a small family emergency but that's all fine now and I've already got the next installment scheduled to go up Monday morning.

And hang on to your hats: it's actually really positive for the most part.

[Somebloke]

No worries. Looking forward to it.

[Guildenstern]

Alright guys, as promised, the last first post (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/02/late-to-party-halo-3-part-i.html). As I said, there's a few things in here that I actually kind of gush about, but don't get too used to that: for the most part I'm still going to be the same old crotchety jerk I have been. It's often easier for me to find fault with things (often small things) and I have a lot of fun picking them apart to try and understand them better, but when I see something I like then it can be just as much fun to similarly pick it apart to see why it works. The difference is pretty much just tone.

Though in all reality I might just be in a more generous mood right now: I finished Black Ops II yesterday and compared to that, Halo is practically Shakespeare. I don't want to get into that too much, as this should probably continue to be a Halo-focused thread but just... ugh. Honestly, part of me wants to do this kind of thing for the COD franchise now, but that would take forever and the vitriol would probably be about a million times more intense. So we'll just leave it be, I think.

EDIT: I also made a few small changes to the site recently (changed the title image, added in a Twitter sidebar, and blew up the font size and post dimensions a little). Let me know if it's any easier/harder to read or if you have any suggestions.

[Somebloke]

Alright guys, as promised, the last first post (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/02/late-to-party-halo-3-part-i.html). As I said, there's a few things in here that I actually kind of gush about, but don't get too used to that: for the most part I'm still going to be the same old crotchety jerk I have been. It's often easier for me to find fault with things (often small things) and I have a lot of fun picking them apart to try and understand them better, but when I see something I like then it can be just as much fun to similarly pick it apart to see why it works. The difference is pretty much just tone.

Though in all reality I might just be in a more generous mood right now: I finished Black Ops II yesterday and compared to that, Halo is practically Shakespeare. I don't want to get into that too much, as this should probably continue to be a Halo-focused thread but just... ugh. Honestly, part of me wants to do this kind of thing for the COD franchise now, but that would take forever and the vitriol would probably be about a million times more intense. So we'll just leave it be, I think.

EDIT: I also made a few small changes to the site recently (changed the title image, added in a Twitter sidebar, and blew up the font size and post dimensions a little). Let me know if it's any easier/harder to read or if you have any suggestions.

A nice read. I could go and point out some details (apparently he surfed down on a door to survive re-entry) but I don't think that will make things better.

You kind of have to feel a bit of pity for the various authors who were handed the storylines presented in the game and told to make some sense out of it in the expanded universe.

And as for Black Ops 2...the sad part? They really tried this time.

[Guildenstern]

A nice read. I could go and point out some details (apparently he surfed down on a door to survive re-entry) but I don't think that will make things better.

Oh my God, that's fantastic. Like, part of me almost wishes the game showed this because that's probably the single most hilarious hand-wave I've ever heard of.

"Yeah, he jumped out of his spaceship right as he entered the mesopshere."

"And he survived?"

"Yeah, he had a door"

"Oh, well alright then. Hey, how's your brother doing after that car crash?"

"He's fine. Thank God he was wearing a jacket or things could have been really bad."


You kind of have to feel a bit of pity for the various authors who were handed the storylines presented in the game and told to make some sense out of it in the expanded universe.

While I haven't read the books and can't vouch for how much sense they make of things after the fact, if it's anything resembling a respectable job then I don't know why they weren't just brought on to write the game in the first place. Writing for games and writing for books is a very different thing, to be sure, but since Halo doesn't really have to factor in branching story options and proceeds in a very linear narrative fashion then that takes a lot of the complications out of it.

Nonetheless, as you say they should perhaps warrant some pity but also some props. As I've said, there's some really cool tidbits to work with in Halo and a writer who gets on board with that can do some awesome things. Look at Star Wars: I think we can all agree that the Clones were a stupid, poorly handled idea. But writers like Karen Traviss have done some pretty cool stuff with those Clones in their expanded universe work.


And as for Black Ops 2...the sad part? They really tried this time.

Tried to do what? Make an even more tonally disconnected, unbelievable, and poorly interacted-with story while experimenting with gameplay concepts that other, better games have been doing for decades?

But oh well, the consumers have spoken with their wallets and Activision could probably sell discs made of compacted cow turds if they wanted to.

[AttilaTheGeek]

But oh well, the consumers have spoken with their wallets and Activision could probably sell discs made of compacted cow turds if they wanted to.

Don't they already? :smalltongue:

[Guildenstern]

Don't they already? :smalltongue:

Well, yeah. But now they'll start charging you for a season pass to get rid of the smell.

[Somebloke]

Oh my God, that's fantastic. Like, part of me almost wishes the game showed this because that's probably the single most hilarious hand-wave I've ever heard of.

"Yeah, he jumped out of his spaceship right as he entered the mesopshere."

"And he survived?"

"Yeah, he had a door"

"Oh, well alright then. Hey, how's your brother doing after that car crash?"

"He's fine. Thank God he was wearing a jacket or things could have been really bad."

The best bit is, after bothering to give this handwave, they then proceed to play out more or less the same scenario in Halo 4...only without a door.

Master Chief can apparently survive a fall into a Gravity Well that can tear apart spaceships.


While I haven't read the books and can't vouch for how much sense they make of things after the fact, if it's anything resembling a respectable job then I don't know why they weren't just brought on to write the game in the first place. Writing for games and writing for books is a very different thing, to be sure, but since Halo doesn't really have to factor in branching story options and proceeds in a very linear narrative fashion then that takes a lot of the complications out of it.

Nonetheless, as you say they should perhaps warrant some pity but also some props. As I've said, there's some really cool tidbits to work with in Halo and a writer who gets on board with that can do some awesome things. Look at Star Wars: I think we can all agree that the Clones were a stupid, poorly handled idea. But writers like Karen Traviss have done some pretty cool stuff with those Clones in their expanded universe work.

Halo is a funny example- the writers seemed to have a good idea as to the backstory of the world and the greater elements of the Haloverse...they just didn't seem to bother adding it to the game. Possibly because they were too busy coding more rooms for the library.

I mean, that was important.


Tried to do what? Make an even more tonally disconnected, unbelievable, and poorly interacted-with story while experimenting with gameplay concepts that other, better games have been doing for decades?

But oh well, the consumers have spoken with their wallets and Activision could probably sell discs made of compacted cow turds if they wanted to.

Tried to innovate...with a complex storyline (that was a jumbled, rubbishy mess) vaguely sympathetic villain (who came across as cartoonishly evil anyway) new modes of gameplay (which either didn't work very well or lasted all of two minutes) and non-fatal consequences for failure (...actually...props for trying this last one, especially for a game like this).

I really, really believe that they believed they were making something innovative here. And that's sad.

Still...I can't say that I've hated playing the CoD games, so long as I remove my brain and put it in some lead shielding (to protect from the stupid) before I start up- same procedure, really, as watching a Michael Bay film (actually, there are a lot of similarities when you think about it, especially concerning explosions) or an 80's cartoon with more violence. My girlfriend, especially, seems to enjoy them, but this is largely because she does not, and never will, bother to pay attention to the plot of any computer game- they exist to give her something to shoot. Especially the 'No Russian' level of MW2.

...which is more than a little disturbing.

[Guildenstern]

Halo is a funny example- the writers seemed to have a good idea as to the backstory of the world and the greater elements of the Haloverse...they just didn't seem to bother adding it to the game.

Well, that kind of thing isn't actually too uncommon. Look at Bethesda: they're awesome at creating atmospheric, richly detailed worlds with lots of pre-existing legends and lore inserted into the game that you can discover if you poke around, but the "main quest" kind of stories that they allow the player to interact with aren't really all that special. The conquest of Skyrim by Ysgrammor, the disappearance of the Dwemer, and the political struggles behind the outlawing of Talos Worship are all far more interesting to me than "save the world from a dragon".

In fact, if Halo wasn't afraid to let the player take a break now and again and maybe read up on the history of the UNSC and previous territory conflicts with the Covenant within the game itself then I'd probably be a lot more accepting of its lore gaps and inconsistencies.


Still...I can't say that I've hated playing the CoD games, so long as I remove my brain and put it in some lead shielding (to protect from the stupid) before I start up- same procedure, really, as watching a Michael Bay film (actually, there are a lot of similarities when you think about it, especially concerning explosions) or an 80's cartoon with more violence.

MW2 in particular is basically one huge love song to Michael Bay. Y'know that shootout in the shower room of the old prison? Lifted directly from The Rock. The sets are almost completely identical. And there's nothing wrong with that, really. Bay can't manage a story to save his life, but as a technical director he's actually very, very good. CoD is the same story: dumb, but mechanically competent.


My girlfriend, especially, seems to enjoy them, but this is largely because she does not, and never will, bother to pay attention to the plot of any computer game- they exist to give her something to shoot. Especially the 'No Russian' level of MW2.

...which is more than a little disturbing.

You've been a good commenter around here, bro, so in the interest of preserving that I'd just like to say this:

FLEEEEEEEEE!

I kid, but that definitely is a bit messed up.

[Artanis]

Halo is a funny example- the writers seemed to have a good idea as to the backstory of the world and the greater elements of the Haloverse...they just didn't seem to bother adding it to the game. Possibly because they were too busy coding more rooms for the library.

I mean, that was important.
Hey, copy+paste takes a long time when you have to do it twenty thousand times :smalltongue:



Although honestly, I have to admit that (other than The Library, SCREW The Library) I actually liked the level design in Halo: CE. Having various areas of a given level be so similar gave it a real feel of an entire place being designed by the same architect. It also gave more impact to the last three levels, really driving home just how much the situation had deteriorated by that point when you saw those familiar areas filled with Flood and on fire.

[Guildenstern]

Whoops, totally forgot to finish and link to Part II (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/02/late-to-party-halo-3-part-ii.html) earlier today, sorry about that. Situation is now rectified.

[Thanatos 51-50]

There's an entire Halo game wherein Nathon Fillion voices a main character, if that's up your alley.

[Guildenstern]

There's an entire Halo game wherein Nathon Fillion voices a main character, if that's up your alley.

Heck man, they've got Fillion, Baldwin, and Tudyk in that game. At this point I'm pretty much 100% not going to do a write-up on ODST or Reach, but I'll play 'em anyway. I'm curious to see how a Halo story pans out when it's not revolving around Chief, the superhero/demigod. I'll probably post a few thoughts either here or on the website as part of a wrap-up post, but nothing in-depth.

[Guildenstern]

And Part III (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/02/late-to-party-halo-3-part-iii.html), in which the Gravemind continues to troll us.

[AttilaTheGeek]

And Part III (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/02/late-to-party-halo-3-part-iii.html), in which the Gravemind continues to troll us.

I think Gravemind and the Prophet of Truth have teamed up, and are actually best friends, working together to crash all of humanity's parties.

[Guildenstern]

I think Gravemind and the Prophet of Truth have teamed up, and are actually best friends, working together to crash all of humanity's parties.

Great, now I won't be able to stop picturing them as Vince Vaughn and Owen Wilson.

And I haven't even seen Wedding Crashers.

[Misery Esquire]

But the real question is ; Did you mercy kill Nathan halfway through transformation, or let him become teh Floodz.

[Guildenstern]

But the real question is ; Did you mercy kill Nathan halfway through transformation, or let him become teh Floodz.

I honestly can't remember. I think it was just too traumatic and I had to block it from my memory.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Wait, Nathan Fillion died in Halo 3?

I totally forgot about that!

[Artanis]

Yeah, it happens when a giant fox shoots down his spaceship :smalltongue:

[Guildenstern]

So as you've probably guessed, no update today. My little sister's been home from college this weekend so we've been having some family time and I didn't get around to writing up the next post. It's also my mother's birthday on Wednesday so it's possible I'll miss an update again, but hopefully I'll get some writing done between now and then. At any rate, hope everybody had a good President's Day.

[Guildenstern]

Part IV (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/02/late-to-party-halo-3-part-iv.html), in which we are almost certainly complicit in the deaths of a ridiculous number of innocents.

[DaedalusMkV]

With regards to "glassing half of Africa", keep in mind that this is all coming in at the tail end of a war that's lasted more than 30 years (in fact, a good portion of the characters in the game cannot remember a time in which they were not in a losing war against a massive xenocidal empire), which has seen more than half of the entire population of the human race annihilated in exactly this sort of attack. Master Chief has explicitely watched this happen on a larger scale dozens of times. Numbness is a valid reaction at this point, especially given that the attack wiped out a Flood infestation that could quite easily have killed everyone on Earth if not destroyed quickly.

Still, seems like you're enjoying this part of the game a lot more than most of the series up to this point. That can't last...

[Guildenstern]

With regards to "glassing half of Africa", keep in mind that this is all coming in at the tail end of a war that's lasted more than 30 years (in fact, a good portion of the characters in the game cannot remember a time in which they were not in a losing war against a massive xenocidal empire), which has seen more than half of the entire population of the human race annihilated in exactly this sort of attack. Master Chief has explicitely watched this happen on a larger scale dozens of times. Numbness is a valid reaction at this point, especially given that the attack wiped out a Flood infestation that could quite easily have killed everyone on Earth if not destroyed quickly.

Yeah, I guess I get that, but again, it seems to me that the only reason we're on Earth right now is because the devs wanted the audience to have a connection to a setting they're familiar with (though I've already pointed out why that doesn't really work). What strikes me as odd, then, is how the characters themselves don't respond with the same level of shock that they presumably want their audience to have. You make a good point that this is all pretty much par for the course of the war, but I doubt the French during WWII were any less upset about having one of their cities burned down just because it had already happened to a dozen others. I mean, hell, the glassing of Africa even happens off-screen. I guess I don't know what the game wants me to feel here since it's jumping back and forth between "horrible catastrophe" and "no big deal".


Still, seems like you're enjoying this part of the game a lot more than most of the series up to this point. That can't last...

I'm sure I'll be able to find a few more nice things to say about the game before we're done, but yeah, there's still a good bit of complaining ahead of us yet. Only about two more posts to go, though, so don't worry: it'll all be over soon.

[Somebloke]

You've been a good commenter around here, bro, so in the interest of preserving that I'd just like to say this:

FLEEEEEEEEE!

I kid, but that definitely is a bit messed up.

About four years too late for me, dude.

....I never knew that Nathan Fillion died in this one...wait, is it the same character as in ODST? That's a massive downer if that's the case.

What explosions are you talking about, anyway? I can't recall any long-distance explosions....

[Guildenstern]

....I never knew that Nathan Fillion died in this one...wait, is it the same character as in ODST? That's a massive downer if that's the case.

Nah, he and Baldwin just voiced a few Marine grunts in this one, not ODSTs. I actually looked it up after the fact and I think it's possible for that "character" to die twice in the same game: once in the opening level where he gets mauled by a Brute and again here.


What explosions are you talking about, anyway? I can't recall any long-distance explosions....

When you get to the Ark and look up you can see the Milky Way as part of the game's skybox and it appears to be flashing like a pinball machine. It's totally possible that I'm exaggerating the number of explosions, and maybe they're just supernovas or something, but I wrote that tweet seconds after observing this so I'm pretty sure I'm not remembering wrong.

[Toastkart]

When you get to the Ark and look up you can see the Milky Way as part of the game's skybox and it appears to be flashing like a pinball machine. It's totally possible that I'm exaggerating the number of explosions, and maybe they're just supernovas or something, but I wrote that tweet seconds after observing this so I'm pretty sure I'm not remembering wrong.

Those explosions are coming from the battle between the covenant and separatist fleets in orbit. The one that Master Chief and crew left on their way down to the Ark. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9bhsReKbI8) If you look close enough you can even see ships moving around up there.

[Guildenstern]

Those explosions are coming from the battle between the covenant and separatist fleets in orbit. The one that Master Chief and crew left on their way down to the Ark. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9bhsReKbI8) If you look close enough you can even see ships moving around up there.

Well, that would make a lot more sense, to be sure. The perspective seems way off, though, it really looked like those explosions were coming from within the galaxy. Ever since Mass Effect 3 I've been a little sensitive to potential galaxy-destroying phenomena.

Anyway, today we have Part V (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/02/late-to-party-halo-3-part-v.html). Be warned, I say mean things again.

But just one more to go.

[darksolitaire]

So, did you miss the sentinel cut scene and the terminals in levels The Ark, The Covenant and Halo? That would explain some of the issues you had with the game.

[Guildenstern]

So, did you miss the sentinel cut scene and the terminals in levels The Ark, The Covenant and Halo? That would explain some of the issues you had with the game.

If the terminals are those little things hidden in the level environment, then yeah, I guess I missed them. Those are great for minor bits of characterization and backstory that folks want to hunt around for but if they're hiding major and vital bits of exposition in there then that's just monumentally bad storytelling.

[Misery Esquire]

If the terminals are those little things hidden in the level environment, then yeah, I guess I missed them. Those are great for minor bits of characterization and backstory that folks want to hunt around for but if they're hiding major and vital bits of exposition in there then that's just monumentally bad storytelling.

The terminals are hidden, but never really talk about the Ark, anyway. Mostly about the two factions of the Forerunners in their war against the Flood.

There's just a lot of Sentinels floating around in the background of the levels, and the one bit where a whole horde of them go by and 343 goes "Oh, those. They're off to do something important. What? I don't know what, I'm not the monitor of this* installation."


*Eheheheheh

[Guildenstern]

There's just a lot of Sentinels floating around in the background of the levels, and the one bit where a whole horde of them go by and 343 goes "Oh, those. They're off to do something important. What? I don't know what, I'm not the monitor of this* installation."

Y'know, I think I do recall that actually. I mean, it makes the most sense that there would be a system in place to keep the network active and that the sentinels would be the ones doing the grunt work, it's just that a plot can't be supported by assumptions and extrapolations alone.

That said, that scene is enough of an implication that it works, though; I guess I just must have forgotten about it in the sudden "there's another ring" reveal, so I'll shoulder the blame for overlooking that, sorry guys.

[shadow_archmagi]

Yeah, the Rings are shown to be pretty heavily automated- There's always stuff going on in the background, so it doesn't seem weird to me that it could automatically pump out a halo.

[Guildenstern]

Dude. Guys. We're totally done (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/02/late-to-party-halo-3-part-vi.html).

Well, this has been an adventure to be sure. Haven't written that much since my last campaign log and my keyboard needs a break for a while. I'll still be writing a few concluding thoughts on Wednesday so stick around for that, but for now I'm just glad to be done.

[Guildenstern]

And that's it. (http://www.nerdwatchshow.com/2013/02/late-to-party-halo-franchise-final.html) That's all the Halo this blog is capable of handling for the moment.

Thanks a lot for reading, you guys. Contrary to what the posting language would seem to imply at times I did actually have a lot of fun with this, and it was good to talk with some of the folks on here a bit more well-versed in the lore than I. It was great contextual stuff and you guys brought up a lot of good points throughout. I'll probably try this format again with another game so if you guys have any suggestions I'd be glad to hear 'em, though some of those might be met with a chorus of "played it already".

Anyway, thanks again, it's been fun.

[Misery Esquire]

On the Ending Blog ;

The random respawning-further-back-than-you-were-even-after-seeing-Checkpoints is actually a design feature ; if somewhat poorly executed. See, what happened on a few occasions in Halo 1, was that it gave you the Checkpoint! of safety... Just as a grenade stuck you in the face. So, you die, and it reloads to... The grenade sticking you in the face. Repeat.

The Halo 3 (Or maybe it was in 2? Eh.) solution was that if you get butchered at the same location too many times in a row, it might have something to do with your spawning checkpoint, and if they set you back twenty feet, your survival rate might go up.

On 343 ; He's an annoying ball of nigh-invunerable shields and quasi-almost-helpful information that followed them onto the Ark. The inevitability could have only been avoided by shooting him earlier. With the laser cannon. ... Because lasers.

Everything exploding ; Everything was exploding. I have nothing.

But you can get the Flamethrower in a few of the levels! ...Well, two, at least.

[Guildenstern]

See, what happened on a few occasions in Halo 1, was that it gave you the Checkpoint! of safety... Just as a grenade stuck you in the face. So, you die, and it reloads to... The grenade sticking you in the face. Repeat.

The Halo 3 (Or maybe it was in 2? Eh.) solution was that if you get butchered at the same location too many times in a row, it might have something to do with your spawning checkpoint, and if they set you back twenty feet, your survival rate might go up.

Interesting idea, but yeah, probably not executed too well. I've hit the checkpoint-death cycle in other games (dear Obsidian designer who put a land mine immediately outside a door: you're a ****) so I can see that. The problem being of course that it operates on assumption. Here that wasn't the issue at all so I was just losing progress for no reason.


On 343 ; He's an annoying ball of nigh-invunerable shields and quasi-almost-helpful information that followed them onto the Ark. The inevitability could have only been avoided by shooting him earlier. With the laser cannon. ... Because lasers.

For all those reasons, shooting him with a laser cannon seems to be a very reasonable response if you ask me. I mean, we solve all our other problems by shooting them, why not this one?


But you can get the Flamethrower in a few of the levels! ...Well, two, at least.

Y'know what's sad? I totally missed the flamethrower in that orange Flood-ship. I didn't find out until later that I guess there was one in that Pelican? I was a very sad man when I heard this.