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Jormengand
2012-12-08, 06:52 PM
This is my homebrew defensive character class. Please make suggestions for balance and additional Honour Paths. (Three isn't enough!)

Honour Guard 0.3
Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d10.

Starting Wealth: 5d6 x 10 gp (average 175gp.) In addition, each character begins play with an outfit worth 10 gp or less.

The Honour Guard's class skills are Bluff (Cha) Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha) Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks Per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

An Honour Guard has the same age as a fighter.
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Damage guard +1, Honour Path, Path Feat, The Mouth +1, Discipline of war

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Look out!

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Damage guard +2, The Mouth +2

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Armour guard +1, Multi-guard +1

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|The Mouth +3

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+2|Damage guard +3, Path Feat

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+2|The Mouth +4

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+2|Armour guard +2, Multi-guard +2, Path Ability

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+3|Damage guard +4, The Mouth +5

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+7|
+3| Inspired Guard +2

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+7|
+3|Path Feat, The Mouth +6

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+8|
+4|Damage guard +5

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+8|
+8|Path Ability, The Mouth +7

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+9|
+4|Armour guard +3

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+5|Damage guard +6, Inspired guard +4, The Mouth +8

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+10|
+5|Multi-guard +3, Path Feat

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+5|The Mouth +9

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+6|Damage guard +7, Path Ability.

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+6|Armour guard +4, The Mouth +10

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+6|Multi-guard +4, Inspired guard +6, Doom Phalanx[/table]

An Honour Guard is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and all armour (light, medium and heavy) and shields (including tower shields).

Guard (Ex)

At first level the Honour Guard can guard a single target as a swift action. The target remains guarded by the Honour Guard until the Honour guard leaves 40ft+5ft/level range or stops guarding them to guard another target. The Honour Guard gains the following bonuses:

Damage Guard: at first level, the Honour Guard gains +1 to attack and damage rolls when making attacks of opportunity or readied attacks against a target making a hostile action against the guarded target. This bonus is increased by +1 at third, sixth, ninth, twelfth, fifteenth and eighteenth level.

Armour Guard: at fourth level the guarded target gains a +1 circumstance bonus to AC. This bonus is increased by +1 at ninth, fourteenth and nineteenth levels.

Multi-guard: at fourth level the Honour Guard can guard an additional target. They can guard another at eigth, another at sixteenth and another at twentieth level.

Inspired Guard: at tenth level the Honour Guard gains a +2 Morale bonus to Strength and Constitution while guarding a target. This becomes a +4 bonus at fifteenth and +6 at twentieth level.

If the Honour Guard is affected by a spell which causes him to act against his will, then he can never be made to un-guard a target nor perform hostile actions upon a guarded target.

Honour Path (Ex)
An Honour Guard chooses an Honour Path at first level. It cannot be changed thereafter. Each path grants a specific feat at first, sixth, eleventh and sixteenth levels, even if the Honour Guard does not normally meet the requirements for that feat - if an Honour Guard already has the bonus feat normally granted by their Path they instead gain another feat of their choice that they meet the prerequisites for. It also grants extra class features at eighth, thirteenth and eighteenth levels.

Path of the Archer:

Feats: Point blank shot, Rapid shot, Snap shot, Improved snap shot.

Stand and shoot: From eighth level onwards, the Honour Guard’s first attack of opportunity against a target charging him, or a guarded target, is resolved as though it were a full round attack action so long as he is wielding a ranged weapon. If he is allowed additional attacks of opportunity, even against a second charger, he takes them as normal.

Pinning shot: From thirteenth level onwards, an Honour Guard may attempt to make a pinning shot. This requires a full round action, and is made as a single attack with a ranged weapon. If the pinning shot hits, the target must take a reflex save with a DC equal to the total result of the roll to hit. If it is failed, the target cannot move next round except through the use of a five-foot step, and has a 50% arcane spell failure chance. The Honour guard may take a Pinning shot while standing and shooting, in which case the charger wastes his action and does nothing as well as being immobile next round and having arcane spell failure chance.

Suppressing fire: From eighteenth level the Honour Guard may use his full attack action as normal when making pinning shots, or make a single pinning shot as a standard action. If he does so, however, he inflicts no damage.

Path of the Halberdier:

Feats: Near and far, Combat reflexes, Cleave, Stand still.

Irresistible force: From eighth level onwards, when the Honour Guard makes an full-round attack action with a reach weapon, he may eschew his additional attacks in favour of a single attack which, if it hits, pushes the target back one square directly away from the Honour guard. This may push the enemy diagonally.

Immovable object: From thirteenth level onwards, the Honour guard can reach to an additional square with his reach weapon. He may also use combat reflexes to make multiple attacks of opportunity for the same move or charge action.

Inconceivable event: At eighteenth level, if a guarded target dies, then the Honour Guard may immediately charge the person who killed them. However, if he reaches the target his attacks are resolved as a full-round attack action. He then continues to act as normal in his next turn.

Path of the Antimagus
Feats: Iron Will, Improved Iron Will, any*, any*

*You must meet the prerequisites for these feats.

Antimagic Guard (Su): Guarded targets gain 6 + Honour Guard level spell resistance at eighth level, which does not stack with any spell resistance they alrady have, so long as the Honour Guard wields a shield.

Spellslayer (Su) At thirteenth level, if the Honour Guard damages a spellcaster, they immediately lose some of their spells. The number of spell levels lost is equal to half the damage dealt, rounded up. The highest possible spell slots are taken first. For example, if a wizard with 2 level 8 spells remaining takes 25 damage, he loses both level 8 spells, a level 7 spell and a level 2 spell. For prepared casters, these spells are determined randomly.

A manifester instead loses psi points equal to the damage dealt.

Reditomancer (Su): At eighteenth level, the Honour Guard can attempt to return the power of an opponent's spell by bouncing it off his shield. Of course, he must have a shield equipped to use this ability. When and only when a spell is cast, if the Honour Guard takes the effect of the spell, either under normal circumstances or due to Look Out!'s effect, the spell has a chance to be reflected.

The spell's caster and the Honour Guard take an opposed caster level check - the Honour Guard uses his Honour guard levels instead of his caster level - and if the Honour guard wins, the spell's caster is affected by the ability as well as the intended targets. Further, if an area of effect spell is used it affects an area over the caster. All other details of the spell remain as written.

No spell which is beneficial to the target may be reflected, and some other spells are unsuitable for reflection. Examples include Antimagic Field and Command.

This ability may be used against a psionic power in exactly the same way, using manifester level instead of caster levels.

The Mouth (Ex): at first level, and every odd level thereafter, the Honour Guard gains a +1 to intimidate, diplomacy, bluff and knowledge (nobility) checks. Also, these skills always count as trained for him.

Discipline of war (Ex):

The Honour Guard counts all levels in Honour Guard as levels in fighter whenever they are listed as a feat prerequisite.

Look out! (Ex):

The Honour Guard may leap into danger to protect a guarded ally within half the Honour Guard's movement range as an immediate action in response to any spell or attack which specifies a target or area and must physically travel there, even a melee attack. The Honour Guard makes an attack roll with a DC equal to the result attack roll that was made to hit the target. If no attack roll is required, a ranged attack roll is made to provide the DC.

If the Honour Guard succeeds, the Honour Guard takes all the effects of the spell or attack. If he succeeds by 10 or more, neither he nor the target take the effects.

Doom Phalanx (Ex):
At twentieth level, the Honour Guard’s expertise is so high that he can turn his allies into a small defence network. All the targets of guard count themselves to be guarding each other and the Honour Guard, but the bonuses for being guarded do not stack.

Honour Guard 0.2
Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d10.

Starting Wealth: 5d6 x 10 gp (average 175gp.) In addition, each character begins play with an outfit worth 10 gp or less.

The Honour Guard's class skills are Bluff (Cha) Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha) Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks Per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

An Honour Guard has the same age as a fighter.
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+0|Damage guard +1, Honour Path, Path Feat, The Mouth +1

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+0|

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+1|Damage guard +2, The Mouth +2

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+1|Armour guard +1

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+1|The Mouth +3

6th|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+2|Damage guard +3, Path Feat

7th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+2|The Mouth +4

8th|
+6/1|
+6|
+6|
+2|Armour guard +2, Multi-guard +1, Path Ability

9th|
+6/1|
+6|
+6|
+3|Damage guard +4, The Mouth +5

10th|
+7/2|
+7|
+7|
+3| Inspired Guard +2

11th|
+8/3|
+7|
+7|
+3|Path Feat, The Mouth +6

12th|
+9/4|
+8|
+8|
+4|Damage guard +5

13th|
+9/4|
+8|
+8|
+8|Path Ability, The Mouth +7

14th|
+10/5|
+9|
+9|
+4|Armour guard +3

15th|
+11/6/1|
+9|
+9|
+5|Damage guard +6, Inspired guard +4, The Mouth +8

16th|
+12/7/2|
+10|
+10|
+5|Multi-guard +2, Path Feat

17th|
+12/7/2|
+10|
+10|
+5|The Mouth +9

18th|
+13/8/3|
+11|
+11|
+6|Damage guard +7, Path Ability.

19th|
+14/9/4|
+11|
+11|
+6|Armour guard +4, The Mouth +10

20th|
+15/10/5|
+12|
+12|
+6|Multi-guard +3, Inspired guard +6, Doom Phalanx[/table]

An Honour Guard is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and all armour (light, medium and heavy) and shields (including tower shields).

Guard (Ex)

At first level the Honour Guard can guard a single target as a swift action. The target remains guarded by the Honour Guard until the Honour guard leaves short range (40ft+5ft/level) or stops guarding them to guard another target. The Honour Guard gains the following bonuses:

Damage Guard: at first level, the Honour Guard gains +1 to attack and damage rolls when making attacks of opportunity or readied attacks against a target making a hostile action against the guarded target. This bonus is increased by +1 at third, sixth, ninth, twelfth, fifteenth and eighteenth level.

Armour Guard: at fourth level the guarded target gains a +1 circumstance bonus to AC. This bonus is increased by +1 at ninth, fourteenth and nineteenth levels.

Multi-guard: at eighth level the Honour Guard can guard an additional target. They can guard another at sixteenth and another at twentieth level.

Inspired Guard: at tenth level the Honour Guard gains a +2 Morale bonus to Strength and Constitution while guarding a target. This becomes a +4 bonus at fifteenth and +6 at twentieth level.

Honour Path (Ex)
An Honour Guard chooses an Honour Path at first level. It cannot be changed thereafter. Each path grants a specific feat at first, sixth, eleventh and sixteenth levels, even if the Honour Guard does not normally meet the requirements for that feat - alternatively, it grants the Honour Guard a new feat if they have one already. It also grants extra class features at eighth, thirteenth and eighteenth levels.

Path of the Archer:

Feats: Point blank shot, Rapid shot, Snap shot, Improved snap shot.

Stand and shoot: From eighth level onwards, the Honour Guard’s first attack of opportunity against a target charging him, or a guarded target, is resolved as though it were a full round attack action so long as he is wielding a ranged weapon. If he is allowed additional attacks of opportunity, even against a second charger, he takes them as normal.

Pinning shot: From thirteenth level onwards, an Honour Guard may attempt to make a pinning shot. This requires a full round action, and is made as a single attack with a ranged weapon. If the pinning shot hits, the target must take a reflex save with a DC equal to the total result of the roll to hit. If it is failed, the target cannot move next round except through the use of a five-foot step, and has a 50% arcane spell failure chance. The Honour guard may take a Pinning shot while standing and shooting, in which case the charger wastes his action and does nothing as well as being immobile next round and having arcane spell failure chance.

Suppressing fire: From eighteenth level the Honour Guard may use his full attack action as normal when making pinning shots, or make a single pinning shot as a standard action. If he does so, however, he inflicts no damage.

Path of the Halberdier:

Feats: Near and far, Combat reflexes, Cleave, Stand still.

Irresistible force: From eighth level onwards, when the Honour Guard makes an full-round attack action with a reach weapon, he may eschew his additional attacks in favour of a single attack which, if it hits, pushes the target back one square directly away from the Honour guard. This may push the enemy diagonally.

Immovable object: From thirteenth level onwards, the Honour guard can reach to an additional square with his reach weapon. He may also use combat reflexes to make multiple attacks of opportunity for the same move or charge action.

Inconceivable event: If a guarded target dies, then the Honour Guard can immediately charge the person who killed them. However, if he reaches the target his attacks are resolved as a full-round attack action. He then continues to act as normal in his next turn.

The Mouth (Ex): at first level, and every odd level thereafter, the Honour Guard gains a +1 to intimidate, diplomacy, bluff and knowledge (nobility) checks. Also, these skills always count as trained for him.

Doom Phalanx (Ex)
At twentieth level, the Honour Guard’s expertise is so high that he can turn his allies into a small defence network. All the targets of guard count themselves to be guarding each other and the Honour Guard, as well as the being guarded once (so they only get a +4 bonus to AC, strength and constitution but they get the attack and damage bonuses for all their allies).

Honour Guard 0.1
An Honour Guard has the same starting wealth, hit die, alignment, age and class skills as a fighter.
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+0|Damage guard +1, Honour Path, Path Feat

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+0|

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+1|Damage guard +2

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+1|Armour guard +1

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+1|

6th|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+2|Damage guard +3, Path Feat

7th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+2|

8th|
+6/1|
+6|
+6|
+2|Armour guard +2, Multi-guard +1, Path Ability

9th|
+6/1|
+6|
+6|
+3|Damage guard +4

10th|
+7/2|
+7|
+7|
+3|

11th|
+8/3|
+7|
+7|
+3|Path Feat.

12th|
+9/4|
+8|
+8|
+4|Damage guard +5

13th|
+9/4|
+8|
+8|
+8|Path Ability

14th|
+10/5|
+9|
+9|
+4|Armour guard +3

15th|
+11/6/1|
+9|
+9|
+5|Damage guard +6, Inspired guard +2

16th|
+12/7/2|
+10|
+10|
+5|Multi-guard +2, Path Feat

17th|
+12/7/2|
+10|
+10|
+5|

18th|
+13/8/3|
+11|
+11|
+6|Damage guard +7, Path Ability.

19th|
+14/9/4|
+11|
+11|
+6|Armour guard +4

20th|
+15/10/5|
+12|
+12|
+6|Multi-guard +3, Inspired guard +4, Doom Phalanx[/table]

An Honour Guard is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and all armour (light, medium and heavy) and shields (including tower shields).

Guard (Ex)

At first level the Honour Guard can guard a single target as a swift action. The target remains guarded by the Honour Guard until the Honour guard leaves short range (40ft+5ft/level) or stops guarding them to guard another target. The Honour Guard gains the following bonuses:

Damage Guard: at first level, the Honour Guard gains +1 to attack and damage rolls when making attacks of opportunity or readied attacks against a target making a hostile action against the guarded target. This bonus is increased by +1 at third, sixth, ninth, twelfth, fifteenth and eighteenth level.

Armour Guard: at fourth level the guarded target gains a +1 morale bonus to AC. This bonus is increased by +1 at ninth, fourteenth and nineteenth levels.

Multi-guard: at eighth level the Honour Guard can guard an additional target. They can guard another at sixteenth and another at twentieth level.

Inspired Guard: at fifteenth level the Honour Guard gains a +2 Morale bonus to Strength and Constitution while guarding a target. This becomes a +4 bonus at twentieth level.

Honour Path (Ex)
An Honour Guard chooses an Honour Path at first level. It cannot be changed thereafter. Each path grants a specific feat at first, sixth, eleventh and sixteenth levels, even if the Honour Guard does not normally meet the requirements for that feat - alternatively, it grants the Honour Guard a new feat if they have one already. It also grants extra class features at eighth, thirteenth and eighteenth levels.

Path of the Archer:

Feats: Point blank shot, Rapid shot, Snap shot, Improved snap shot.

Stand and shoot: From eighth level onwards, the Honour Guard’s first attack of opportunity against a target charging him, or a guarded target, is resolved as though it were a full round attack action so long as he is wielding a ranged weapon. If he is allowed additional attacks of opportunity, even against a second charger, he takes them as normal.

Pinning shot: From thirteenth level onwards, an Honour Guard may attempt to make a pinning shot. This requires a full round action, and is made as a single attack with a ranged weapon. If the pinning shot hits, the target must take a reflex save with a DC equal to the total result of the roll to hit. If it is failed, the target cannot move next round except through the use of a five-foot step, and has a 50% arcane spell failure chance. The Honour guard may take a Pinning shot while standing and shooting, in which case the charger wastes his action and does nothing as well as being immobile next round and having arcane spell failure chance.

Suppressing fire: From eighteenth level the Honour Guard may use his full attack action as normal when making pinning shots, or make a single pinning shot as a standard action. If he does so, however, he inflicts no damage.

Path of the Halberdier:

Feats: Near and far, Combat reflexes, Cleave, Stand still.

Irresistible force: From eighth level onwards, when the Honour Guard makes an full-round attack action with a reach weapon, he may eschew his additional attacks in favour of a single attack which, if it hits, pushes the target back one square directly away from the Honour guard. This may push the enemy diagonally.

Immovable object: From thirteenth level onwards, the Honour guard can reach to an additional square with his reach weapon. He may also use combat reflexes to make multiple attacks of opportunity for the same move or charge action.

Inconceivable event: If a guarded target dies, then the Honour Guard can immediately charge the person who killed them. However, if he reaches the target his attacks are resolved as a full-round attack action. He then continues to act as normal in his next turn.

Doom Phalanx (Ex)
At twentieth level, the Honour Guard’s expertise is so high that he can turn his allies into a small defence network. All the targets of guard count themselves to be guarding each other and the Honour Guard, as well as the being guarded once (so they only get a +4 bonus to AC, strength and constitution but they get the attack and damage bonuses for all their allies).

Edits:
0.1
Changed guard so that it's clearer and isn't just loads of As and Bs in the table.

0.2
Added The Mouth ability.
Started the Inspired Guard progression at lv 10.

0.3
Perception is a class skill.
Added Look Out! ability.
Fixed guard, which stated that its range progression was short, which it is not and never has been. The range itself has not been changed.
Changed the multi-guard progression.
Reworded stuff about bonus feats you already have.
Protected minorly against being controlled.
Cut out stuff on Doom Phalanx which was overcomplicating it.
Added Path of the Antimagus.
Filled BAB from 3/4.

Elbeyon
2012-12-08, 09:34 PM
Just a couple thoughts on the melee side.

Irresistible force for the melee seems weak. Trading all secondary attacks for one square isn't that much.

Inconceivable event seems like it would barely happen. I just haven't see a lot of important characters die all that often.

Also Combat Patrol (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-patrol-combat) might be pretty good for the Path of the Halberdier.

Jormengand
2012-12-08, 09:47 PM
Just a couple thoughts on the melee side.

Irresistible force for the melee seems weak. Trading all secondary attacks for one square isn't that much.

Inconceivable event seems like it would barely happen. I just haven't see a lot of important characters die all that often.

Also Combat Patrol (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-patrol-combat) might be pretty good for the Path of the Halberdier.

Combined with Stand Still and Immovable Object, Irresistable Force is really strong. Enemy is standing right next to you. Five foot step, they are 10ft away. Irrisistable force, they are 15ft away. Next round they charge you. First attack, do some damage. Second attack, use Stand Still.

Remember that at that sort of level you can be guarding one or both party casters... and a random guard that the enemy is going to kill. Cue full round attack action.

Hmm. That could be a good idea, but I'd prefer it for one of the other paths that I do later because the Halberdier is meant to be a more static path, except with Inconceivable Event which represents his final moving from his position for revenge.

Jormengand
2012-12-09, 01:07 PM
Anyone else? I'd really like more input!

Quellian-dyrae
2012-12-09, 09:03 PM
The second option for Immovable Object can potentially be exploited if you get some good size or reach boosters, allowing you to really hammer single opponents as they close (or if they attempt to retreat). I'd probably say that when making multiple attacks against the same opponent in that way, they are resolved like a full attack; each one uses the next lowest attack in your full attack routine, and when you run out, you can't attack that target for that action any more. Or maybe even just, you can only attack the same target once per attack available in your full attack. It can still be quite good, but has a lower cap that just your reach or number of attacks of opportunity.

For other path options...weapon and shield springs immediately to mind. Maybe an unarmed path focused on grappling and bull rushing. Maybe even like a stealth dagger path that specializes in being unobtrusive, but if the guarded character is threatened/attacked, steps out of the shadows, neutralizes the threat, and returns to concealment.

Jormengand
2012-12-10, 12:06 PM
The second option for Immovable Object can potentially be exploited if you get some good size or reach boosters, allowing you to really hammer single opponents as they close (or if they attempt to retreat).Perhaps... but then remember that the HG that wants to play like that needs DEX and STR at the same time.A fighter of thirteenth level is going to bring him down, because after the AoOs the fighter is simply better at fighting.


I'd probably say that when making multiple attacks against the same opponent in that way, they are resolved like a full attack; each one uses the next lowest attack in your full attack routine, and when you run out, you can't attack that target for that action any more.Maybe... but that's a serious nerf to quite a high-level ability.


Or maybe even just, you can only attack the same target once per attack available in your full attack. It can still be quite good, but has a lower cap that just your reach or number of attacks of opportunity.
At 13th level, you have enough BAB for two attacks. A fighter charging YOU provokes two. A wizard fleeing from YOU provokes two. A fighter charging the GUARDED TARGET will pretty much provoke all of your combat reflexes - seven attacks maximum. What this nerf would actually do is nerf his ability to do what he's meant to, not nerf what he isn't meant to do.


For other path options...weapon and shield springs immediately to mind. Maybe an unarmed path focused on grappling and bull rushing.Some good ideas. Trouble with the unarmed path is that because they only get their special stuff at eighth level, their first level would have to be on par with what a 1st level non-human non-fighter non-monk can do because all I have is one feat to play with.


Maybe even like a stealth dagger path that specializes in being unobtrusive, but if the guarded character is threatened/attacked, steps out of the shadows, neutralizes the threat, and returns to concealment.

Way to take the Honour out of Honour Guard! I guess it could be done.

Grelna the Blue
2012-12-12, 07:22 PM
Armour Guard: at fourth level the guarded target gains a +1 morale bonus to AC. This bonus is increased by +1 at ninth, fourteenth and nineteenth levels.

[snip]

Inspired Guard: at fifteenth level the Honour Guard gains a +2 Morale bonus to Strength and Constitution while guarding a target. This becomes a +4 bonus at twentieth level.

I'd think that thematically, the Armour Guard AC bonus should be a circumstance bonus, rather than a morale bonus. This guy is doing an excellent job warding off attackers. The fact that his wards might feel really good about that seems somewhat immaterial to their continued safety.

Also, as far as the Inspired Guard ability goes, I'd drop the +2 morale bonus to stats down to 10th level ability, not 15th. In fact, I'd probably give the +4 bonus at 15th and a +6 bonus at 20th. Very few people ever get to play with the 20th level goodies, anyway. If you think that is too powerful, just subtract 2 from the Str bonus at those three levels, so the progression would be 10th: +0 Str, +2 Con; 15th: +2 Str, +4 Con; 20th: +4 Str, +6 Con. This would represent the enhanced emphasis on durability and defense over damage output.

Zman
2012-12-12, 08:37 PM
Looking better.

I think the class needs some spark. What will make me want to take this cass?


How about a Retributive Strike ability. Gain a bonus equal to 1/4 the damage dealt to a guarded character this round to your next attack against(only one) made against the offending opponent before the end of your next round.

At 10th level, equal to 1/2 damage dealt.

I just feel that standing and guarding people will get a bit dull. Also, I think the class should have some more skill points, class skills, especially diplomacy, and some bonuses. Maybe some form of diplomacy bonus when dealing with nobles and royalty.

Jormengand
2012-12-13, 12:56 PM
Some excellent suggestions. I'll work them in.

Zhentarim
2012-12-22, 06:54 PM
Nice build

AttilaTheGeek
2012-12-24, 01:03 PM
You might want to add something at the beginning to set the tone and fluff of what an Honor Guard is. What kind of person becomes an Honor Guard? What role do they play in combat? Where do Honor Guards come from?

Combat-wise, I like Zman's retributive strike idea. I'm worried about what it might be like to play an Honor Guard and spend your entire life both in and out of combat revolving around other people. Everyone needs some big flashy ability now and again.

JoshuaZ
2013-01-27, 09:34 PM
Approximately what tier did you intend this to be?

Right now it looks like the low end of T4. And the lack of anything at level 2 is glaring especially given how much Pathfinder tries to have absolutely no dead levels. Something else really needs to happen there. Maybe give them Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat and let them apply it also to anyone they are guarding within their reach?

Also, perception should probably be a class skill.



short range (40ft+5ft/level)

Isn't short range normally (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) ?

Multi-guard- right now it advances at a slightly irregular way. Maybe make it every four levels so they also get one at fourth level?

It would be nice to have some ability to push someone one is guarding out of the way to take an effect themselves. Not sure what level, but should be something like an immediate action? Fifth level might not be a bad spot because right now one only gets +1 to The Mouth at fifth level and nothing else.

Inconceivable event should probably apply to anytime someone being guarded is dropped rather than dies outight.


Suggestions for other paths- A path that focuses on protecting spellcasters. Obvious things would be stuff that helps prevents attacks of opportunity on your charge, and would let The Mouth apply also to knowledge(arcana) an spellcraft.

I'm not completely sure how Doom Phalanx works- an example might be helpful.




alternatively, it grants the Honour Guard a new feat if they have one already.

The wording is a bit awkward. I'd say something like "If a Honor Guard already has the bonus feat normally granted by their Path they instead gain another feat of their choice that they meet the prerequisites for."

They seem to be somewhat weak in combat for a bodyguard class. It might make sense for them to have full BAB and have their class level/2 count as fighter levels for purposes of qualifying for feats.

Also, one obvious issue since they have a weak will save is people simply mind-controlling people they are assigned to guard. I'd suggest something making it clear that any attempt to do so will automatically count as doing something contrary to their nature.

ngilop
2013-01-27, 10:05 PM
I have a suggestion for a path

the good old weapon+shield path. a more defender guard kinda type.

Jormengand
2013-01-28, 12:14 PM
Approximately what tier did you intend this to be?

About tier 4. Because it doesn't use crazy ToB-esque stuff that's about as good as it's going to get as a martial class.

Right now it looks like the low end of T4. And the lack of anything at level 2 is glaring especially given how much Pathfinder tries to have absolutely no dead levels. Something else really needs to happen there. Maybe give them Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat and let them apply it also to anyone they are guarding within their reach?

Good idea.

Also, perception should probably be a class skill.

Maybe, yeah.

Isn't short range normally (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) ?

Oops. Yes, I'll cut the bit about it being short range; I prefer this progression.

Multi-guard- right now it advances at a slightly irregular way. Maybe make it every four levels so they also get one at fourth level?

Eeeh. Yeah, go for it.

It would be nice to have some ability to push someone one is guarding out of the way to take an effect themselves. Not sure what level, but should be something like an immediate action? Fifth level might not be a bad spot because right now one only gets +1 to The Mouth at fifth level and nothing else.

Good shout.

Inconceivable event should probably apply to anytime someone being guarded is dropped rather than dies outight.

Yes it should.

Suggestions for other paths- A path that focuses on protecting spellcasters. Obvious things would be stuff that helps prevents attacks of opportunity on your charge, and would let The Mouth apply also to knowledge(arcana) an spellcraft.

Good call. At first, misread as "protecting against spellcasters," which might also be a plan.

I'm not completely sure how Doom Phalanx works- an example might be helpful.

All guarded targets gain bonuses as though they were guarding each other as a 20th level Honour Guard.

The wording is a bit awkward. I'd say something like "If a Honor Guard already has the bonus feat normally granted by their Path they instead gain another feat of their choice that they meet the prerequisites for."

Sweet catch.

They seem to be somewhat weak in combat for a bodyguard class. It might make sense for them to have full BAB and have their class level/2 count as fighter levels for purposes of qualifying for feats.

The fighter thing is what caught me when making it. THe medium BAB was to emphasise defence over offence, but it could be shunted up.

Also, one obvious issue since they have a weak will save is people simply mind-controlling people they are assigned to guard. I'd suggest something making it clear that any attempt to do so will automatically count as doing something contrary to their nature.

Oh yeah, that's a good shout.

You've really got this one, haven't you?

Maquise
2013-02-06, 01:37 PM
It looks pretty solid, but I second the suggestion to make it a full BAB class. I really don't see any reason it wouldn't be; I would compare its class features to a bard's, but a bard also gets half-spellcasting.

Jormengand
2013-02-06, 03:02 PM
It looks pretty solid, but I second the suggestion to make it a full BAB class. I really don't see any reason it wouldn't be; I would compare its class features to a bard's, but a bard also gets half-spellcasting.

Uh, I guess.

SamBurke
2013-02-11, 05:16 PM
Seconding the Full BAB. Combat-central classes need full BAB.

I would also make sure to bold all class abilities, some of them are not. That's a minor thing, but it helps the whole class look nice. In addition, if you could find a picture and/or find some nice fluff, it'd help with looks as well.

It seems like path of the AntiMagus is by far the strongest, but, then again, it's against spellcasters. I'd bump the others up in power just a tad.

Jormengand
2013-02-12, 11:41 AM
Seconding the Full BAB. Combat-central classes need full BAB.

I would also make sure to bold all class abilities, some of them are not. That's a minor thing, but it helps the whole class look nice. In addition, if you could find a picture and/or find some nice fluff, it'd help with looks as well.

It seems like path of the AntiMagus is by far the strongest, but, then again, it's against spellcasters. I'd bump the others up in power just a tad.

Yeah, all right, ALL RIGHT.

Oh, yeah. Maybe.

Trouble is, it's a bit like the Blank or the Mage Hunter:
"Ha! I'm an Antimagus! Your magic can't hurt me!"
"I'm a fighter. Tier 5 rocks."