Throwing another character

[yougi]

So I've had this crazy idea for an encounter of an ogre who would pick up his Goblin minions and throw them into the PCs. Given that, in this case, the Goblin is okay with being thrown (yes, they're brainwashed), I simply handwaved any problems with them fighting back. However, a few questions came to mind, and I wanted someone else's opinion on these:

1) How much damage would a thrown person deal? I tried to compare a person to a weapon, but it's kind of hard to do so... I ended up saying that a small creature is 1d10 (as a greatclub), a medium creature is 2d8 (as a large greatclub), and a large creature is 5d6 (yes I know it isn't consistent, I just can't see getting an Ogre thrown at you and only receiving 3d8 dmg). In all cases, the thrower can make a trip attempt on the target, as per the normal rule. What do you think?

2) How much damage would a thrown person receive? I tried to reason that by comparing it to falling damage, but in this case, you're not really fighting gravity... However, after a certain distance, you have to be thrown in an arc...

3) Could I let the thrown character make an attack? You know, Wolverine/Colossus did it... That's actually not really a question, as I totally will no matter what you say. Just putting it out there.

4) How would you rule doing that to an unwilling target? I already imagine the party's barbarian asking to be enlarged to throw enemies around. I guess Grapple to get your hands on the poor fellow (which you have to win by a large margin), then... a second grapple to force him up? (while comparing to weight limits and stuff) And then throwing is a simple to-hit.

[mattie_p]

Take a look at the Fling Ally feat from Races of Stone, it is kind of what you want to do. But not really. What it seems you really want to do is use a goblin as an improvised weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#improvisedWeapons), which, by RAW, you cannot do (see p113 of PHB). But that's ok.

Weapons don't normally take damage for hitting something, but falling damage should be fine. Use distance thrown instead of distance falling, as forward momentum is needed to be tossed, and if the goblin actually hits something 40 feet away, then it should be (about) equivalent to falling 40 feet. The flung goblin should probably fall prone and not be able to attack, unless (possibly) they have a homebrew feat that allows such.

[Azoth]

Reminds me of what my warhulk char used to do our party rogue and the party paladin. Both for different reasons and tactics.

Pally wore spiked armor and had it custom made to lock into a sphere of pointy death, with quick releases to go back to normal. Normally, he just soaked the damage of being hurled. I think the most annoying part for him was the fort save vs dazing. He was the enemy wall breaker.

Rogue got lobbed over the enemie's front lines to get at tasty casters in the back. The rogue tumbled to reduce his damage from the toss and to come up on his feet.

[yougi]

Take a look at the Fling Ally feat from Races of Stone, it is kind of what you want to do. But not really.

It's actually fairly close, both that and Fling Enemy. Thank you for pointing these out.


What it seems you really want to do is use a goblin as an improvised weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#improvisedWeapons), which, by RAW, you cannot do (see p113 of PHB). But that's ok.

I'm sorry, but I didn't understand any part of this section as meaning you couldn't use a goblin as a weapon. I mean, I know it won't say "no, you can't use a goblin as a weapon", but I fail to get which part specifically proscribes it. Can you be more specific?


Weapons don't normally take damage for hitting something ...

Then again, weapons have hardness, goblins don't. And projectiles have 50% chances of breaking when missing, 100% chance when hitting their target. However, I guess a goblin is (somewhat) more resilient than an arrow.


..., but falling damage should be fine. Use distance thrown instead of distance falling, as forward momentum is needed to be tossed, and if the goblin actually hits something 40 feet away, then it should be (about) equivalent to falling 40 feet.

I guess the question is "What's gravity's Strength score?" then :smallbiggrin: . But what you're saying would make sense.


The flung goblin should probably fall prone and not be able to attack, unless (possibly) they have a homebrew feat that allows such.

I completely agree to the falling prone thing. However, I meant attacking while in mid-air, a la Wolverine. However, I guess making it a feat would make sense.

Fastball special (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FastballSpecial) [General]
You are particularly adept at being thrown at enemies.

Prerequisite: Int & Wis 10- (yes, that's a minus sign)

Benefit: If flung at an enemy by an ally with the Fling Ally feat, you may use a previously readied attack while in mid-air on this enemy.


Reminds me of what my warhulk char used to do our party rogue and the party paladin. Both for different reasons and tactics.

Pally wore spiked armor and had it custom made to lock into a sphere of pointy death, with quick releases to go back to normal.


THAT. IS. SO. AWESOME!

[mattie_p]

My point is that improvised weapons rules require objects, and goblins are creatures. Silly, I know. Especially because once a goblin dies, its corpse is an object.

Regarding attacking in transit, you still technically can't, as it isn't the goblin's turn (it is the ogre's turn, only AoOs can be made out of turn). AoO model might work - again, some homebrew might be required.

[gallagher]

CTRL+f "dwarf" not found????

how can a thread about tossing allies go on this long with no reference to dwarf tossing?

anyway, a couple levels of drunken master would help using your allies as improvised weapons. You could potentially use someone large sized as a reach weapon, and your friendly gnome bard as a tripping hazard

[Azoth]

The only reason I got away with it on my warhulk now that I think about it was the warhulk's ability...I think it is called Mighty Throw...I am AFB ATM. DM ruled anything 50lb or more could chucked. If I wanted to chuck an unwilling enemy I had to pin them first. Really not an issue for a guy with a STR in the low 60's who is gargantuan, treated as colossal with Imp Grapple, scropin Grasp, and that obscure weapon that gives +4 to grapples.

The only issue was the 4 INT...man did that suck. But it was fun good times.

[yougi]

My point is that improvised weapons rules require objects, and goblins are creatures. Silly, I know. Especially because once a goblin dies, its corpse is an object.

Well, if killing them is all it takes... :smallbiggrin:

In all seriousness though, I get what you mean, by RAW it's impossible, although it's fairly easy to handwaive in this particular case. It's not as if he was using his allies as melee weapons (now that would be weird), but you can throw anything you want...


Regarding attacking in transit, you still technically can't, as it isn't the goblin's turn (it is the ogre's turn, only AoOs can be made out of turn). AoO model might work - again, some homebrew might be required.

Would a ready action work? "Whoever I'm thrown towards, I gut them with my swords" seems pretty reasonable.


CTRL+f "dwarf" not found????

how can a thread about tossing allies go on this long with no reference to dwarf tossing?

We're getting there, don't worry.


anyway, a couple levels of drunken master would help using your allies as improvised weapons. You could potentially use someone large sized as a reach weapon, and your friendly gnome bard as a tripping hazard

Hmmmm, not a bad idea. Goliath with strong build could use a Large greatclub (which would end up at like what, 12' long), so why not an ogre?