Don't Split the Party Commentary Question

[Tanuki Tales]

I apologize in advance if this was answered somewhere, but my google-fu has failed me and we no longer have a search function afterall:

So, I've been reading through my Kickstarter OOTS compilation books and am currently reading towards the end bulk of Don't Split the Party and I just noticed something. On the commentary page before strip 642a, there's a sentence where Rich refers to Vaarsuvius as "her". Has it been confirmed that this is a printing error or a typing error? Because I find it unlikely that Rich would accidentally let slip that particular tidbit of information.

[Dr.Epic]

I'm pretty sure this has been addressed somewhere on this forum. The use of "her" does mean anything. It's just a pronoun Rich used. We still don't know - and never will - V's official gender.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm pretty sure this has been addressed somewhere on this forum. The use of "her" does mean anything. It's just a pronoun Rich used. We still don't know - and never will - V's official gender.

I think the use of "her" would mean something since, up until the specific instance, he had been pretty poignant in using both gender pronouns with a slash breaking them up. Assuming it wasn't a printing error or slip of the hand on his part when typing it up.

[Cizak]

I think the use of "her" would mean something

Well, sorry to say you're wrong, but it doesn't.

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, sorry to say you're wrong, but it doesn't.

Thanks for truncating my quote, completely removing the caveat to that statement.

[Dr.Epic]

I think the use of "her" would mean something since, up until the specific instance, he had been pretty poignant in using both gender pronouns with a slash breaking them up. Assuming it wasn't a printing error or slip of the hand on his part when typing it up.


Thanks for truncating my quote, completely removing the caveat to that statement.

It still doesn't mean anything. It's just a slip of the tongue, or Rich didn't feel like using the pronoun "they". Rich has stated that V's gender will never be officially declared, and the use of gender specific pronouns referring to V don't mean anything.

[Cizak]

Thanks for truncating my quote, completely removing the caveat to that statement.

Sorry. Let me try again:


I think the use of "her" would mean something since, up until the specific instance, he had been pretty poignant in using both gender pronouns with a slash breaking them up. Assuming it wasn't a printing error or slip of the hand on his part when typing it up.

Well, sorry to say you're wrong, but it doesn't mean anything.

[Dr.Epic]

Sorry. Let me try again:

...

Well, sorry to say you're wrong, but it doesn't mean anything.

Tee Hee! I see what you did there, and I approve!:smallwink:

[Sith_Happens]

Rich tends to flip back and forth on the rare occasions that he does use a gender-specific pronoun. Heck, I've seen him switch from "he/him" to "she/her" and back in a single forum post.

[Gift Jeraff]

I'm pretty sure he switches between him and her in the same commentary section.

[Winter]

He said in some comment/forum it does not matter how he addresses Vaarsuvius. I am pretty sure he used "he" in some other comments and also gave the disclaimer it was for "convenience" and no solution to the riddle.

In fact, I think a lot of what we saw in the comic seems to play in the direction that Vaarsuvius does not actually have a gender (starting with the deliberate ink blob in Dungeon Crawling Fools).

[FujinAkari]

In Dungeon Crawling Fools he referred to Vaarsuvius as 'he' and 'him' for an entire block of commentary. In DSTP he went the other way. It means nothing, Rich has better things to do than waste his creative juices triple-checking pronoun choice.

[Kish]

...Poignant?

[Jay R]

A. When Rich started the comic, he had a specific gender in mind for Vaarsuvius.
B. There is some vague circumstantial evidence that, at that time, he intended Vaarsuvius to be male. This evidence is not clear or conclusive.
C. When Rich started getting asked the question a lot, he decided that it was a usable plot point, and determined that Vaarsuvius had no defined gender.

Conclusions:

You may try to guess what Vaarsuvius's gender had been in Rich's mind when he had one.

There is no point trying to decide what it is now, because for at least 800 comics, the author has written the strip on the assumption that Vaarsuvius could be either sex.

[FujinAkari]

B. There is some vague circumstantial evidence that, at that time, he intended Vaarsuvius to be male. This evidence is not clear or conclusive.

B.2 There is some vague circumstantial evidence that, at that time, he intended Vaarsuvius to be female. This evidence is not clear or conclusive.

[Jay R]

B.2 There is some vague circumstantial evidence that, at that time, he intended Vaarsuvius to be female. This evidence is not clear or conclusive.

I'll bite. What is this evidence?

[On the other side, Rich has never given a name with a feminine ending to a male, or a name with a masculine ending to a female. And Vaarsuvius has a Latin masculine ending, like Julius or Sirius.]

[Kish]

I believe what FujinAkari is thinking of is: Rich has written three webcomic groups with six members. One, the Linear Guild, had four male and two female members in its first incarnation. Another, in Five Foot Steps, four male and two female members. And three, the Order of the Stick.

Beyond that, it is the easiest thing in the world to assert that the name Vaarsuvius has a Latin ending. Proving it? Apparently impossible, or at least never done; the assertion used to be that Vaarsuvius was a clearly Latin name rather than that it could be chopped up and contained one clearly Latin part, until someone pointed out that the aa form does not exist in Latin and so, of all the languages on Earth, Latin is one that Vaarsuvius could not be.

[ti'esar]

I believe what FujinAkari is thinking of is: Rich has written three webcomic groups with six members. One, the Linear Guild, had four male and two female members in its first incarnation. Another, in Five Foot Steps, four male and two female members. And three, the Order of the Stick.

Within OOTS, it's worth noting that the Order of the Scribble and Tarquin's team also use the 4:2 gender ratio, although as both were presumably created long after Rich decided to leave V's gender ambiguous this doesn't mean anything.

[FujinAkari]

[On the other side, Rich has never given a name with a feminine ending to a male, or a name with a masculine ending to a female. And Vaarsuvius has a Latin masculine ending, like Julius or Sirius.]

Kish noted the most significant (as much as any of this can be significant) bits of evidence.

Additionally, there is the presense of V's pink dwenomer and early "girl-talk" with Haley about the difficulties of fashionably accessorizing one's magical gear. There is also the fact that the 'V-man' comic in strip six was intentionally designed to shift the majority opinion ("V is female") into question and spark debate.

None of this proves anything, but the argument that V was originally male is just as well supported (read: not at all) as the argument that V was originally female.

Edit: Ironically, a girl named Alexius started working at my job last week :P

[Nimrod's Son]

and early "girl-talk" with Haley about the difficulties of fashionably accessorizing one's magical gear.
I completely agree with you overall, but this point keeps coming up and it continues to irk me; I don't buy the idea that V was indulging in "fashion talk" there. Even accepting that the characters weren't set in stone at that point, V's hairstyle alone in that strip should be evidence enough that this is not a fashion-conscious person we're dealing with here. :smalltongue: From the very first time I read it, it always seemed to me like he was barely listening, and giving out platitudes.

(Certainly since V's character became fully-formed, there is not even a chance that "Bah! Physical appearances mean little to me!" Vaarsuvius would ever even consider not using a powerful magic item just because it didn't match his outfit.)

[FujinAkari]

I completely agree with you overall, but this point keeps coming up and it continues to irk me; I don't buy the idea that V was indulging in "fashion talk" there. Even accepting that the characters weren't set in stone at that point, V's hairstyle alone in that strip should be evidence enough that this is not a fashion-conscious person we're dealing with here. :smalltongue: From the very first time I read it, it always seemed to me like he was barely listening, and giving out platitudes.

While I agree with you, the evidence (as much as there is, it is admittedly a very weak argument amongst a collection of weak arguments) hinges more on Haley than on V.

Haley, for whatever reason, choose to talk to V about this. Obviously, this indicates that, for whatever reason, Haley believes V will care. While V being female is not the only reason Haley might presume this, it is a logical one, particularly since nothing else about V indicates even a remote interest in fashion (as you pointed out :P)

[Sith_Happens]

Haley, for whatever reason, choose to talk to V about this. Obviously, this indicates that, for whatever reason, Haley believes V will care. While V being female is not the only reason Haley might presume this, it is a logical one, particularly since nothing else about V indicates even a remote interest in fashion (as you pointed out :P)

Well, there's also that Haley and V have been friends for some unspecified amount of time before the OotS was even formed/recruited.

[FujinAkari]

Well, there's also that Haley and V have been friends for some unspecified amount of time before the OotS was even formed/recruited.

Which wasn't decided at the time the strip in question was designed, and therefore irrelevant :P

[Morquard]

The Giant stated once that the time in which V had a specific gender in his mind was just like 5 strips.

"V-man" appears in #9 and he said that was done to confuse his two dozen or so readers at the time. Which indeed would indicate that the majority of people thought V was female, probably because of the "fashion talk" in #3. And maybe because V was running like a girl in #5... but then so was everyone else, so that's a really weak point, so not sure why I even bring it up.
He kinda said that back then subtlety wasn't his strong point and he often used a sledgehammer for it ("V-man")

So anything after that that might hint at a gender doesn't, if anything it might be a hint what the current idea of V's gender was at the time and the Giant decided to once again confuse everyone with a hint to the opposite.

But even IF we figure out with 100% certainty what the Giant's original idea of V's gender was - which we won't, unless he tells us - that doesn't mean it will be V's gender now.

[Jay R]

V's actual sex, like Haley's exact height and Elan's childhood friend, have not been determined by the author.

That doesn't mean that he's determined it and hasn't revealed it, like where Ian went or whether Thog is alive; it means that there isn't an answer.

The author started with one in mind, but delieberately switched away from that, and Vaarsuvius is a character without a determined gender.