Has a Laugh track EVER made anything better?

[Scowling Dragon]

When has a laugh track ever made a piece of comedic writing better except when used in ironic ways?

[tensai_oni]

except when used in ironic ways?

You answered your own question.

I can also add when it does not make things worse - when the show is performed in front of a live studio audience, and the reactions are genuine as opposed to canned laughter. Otherwise... I got nothing.

[Scowling Dragon]

Even if it IS genuine it doesn't HELP if Im watching from a TV.

[Tiki Snakes]

Hmm. Well, if you are including live audience reaction in the definition of a laugh track, sure there has been and entirely unironically.

Compare and Contrast, if you've time and opportunity; Red Dwarf: Back to Earth, (no laughter to imply a more cinematic feel) and the following tenth series (return of the live audience).

[Opperhapsen]

His heart is blacker than a hole
His pot is blacker than his kettle
Blackadder, Blackadder, with many a cunning plan
Blackadder, Blackadder, you horrid little man.

[Roland St. Jude]

When has a laugh track ever made a piece of comedic writing better except when used in ironic ways?Does it make the writing better? No. But does it make the watching experience better? I'd say sometimes. There's something enjoyable about laughing along with others, and when there aren't others around, the laughter piped in at appropriate places in a show can be helpful to provide that seemingly collective experience. Radio and then TV changed the way we experienced theater from live and in a group to (increasingly) canned and (relatively) alone. A well-used laugh track can help provide some feeling of live, group experience. It can also do things like reassure us we can laugh at something or help time out the laughter to maintain the pacing of the banter (or whatever else is causing the humor).

Don't get me wrong, inserting laughs after things that aren't funny just makes things worse. And a laugh track can be overdone, even if the joke was funny. But I do think they can benefit a show.

[Bulldog Psion]

Laugh tracks always seemed to me to be a substitute for providing humor. It's a "here's where you're supposed to laugh" signal, and as such, it totally destroys any humor in the situation at all for me. In short, I won't watch anything with a laugh track in it.

I might even rush someone holding a gun on me and telling me to watch a TV show or film with a laugh track rather than watch it -- that's how deep my distaste for the concept goes. :smallamused:

[Tiki Snakes]

Laugh tracks always seemed to me to be a substitute for providing humor. It's a "here's where you're supposed to laugh" signal, and as such, it totally destroys any humor in the situation at all for me. In short, I won't watch anything with a laugh track in it.

I might even rush someone holding a gun on me and telling me to watch a TV show or film with a laugh track rather than watch it -- that's how deep my distaste for the concept goes. :smallamused:

This is the distinction between a canned laughter track and a live audience.

The canned laughter is put where you are supposed to laugh. Proper live audience laughter is the genuine reaction of the people watching and often happens in places the writers weren't expecting. It sounds like a small thing, but it isn't.

[Bulldog Psion]

This is the distinction between a canned laughter track and a live audience.

The canned laughter is put where you are supposed to laugh. Proper live audience laughter is the genuine reaction of the people watching and often happens in places the writers weren't expecting. It sounds like a small thing, but it isn't.

Very, very true. And the human mind is very sharply aware of the difference, in my experience.

[Dr.Epic]

When has a laugh track ever made a piece of comedic writing better except when used in ironic ways?

Yes.

Two words: 80s Dan
:smallbiggrin:

[Scowling Dragon]

Yes.

Two words: 80s Dan
:smallbiggrin:

Well OK there is that.

My mind isn't easily fooled by canned laugher. When watching something with REAL people I can laugh at even poorly made stuff (Thats family guys shtick) but canned laughter doesn't work for me. Even if its based off of real audiences.

[Dr.Epic]

It's not the laugh track that annoys me; it's the use of laugh tracks on unfunny shows/moments.

[Winter_Wolf]

I'm with Dr. Epic on this one. I don't have a problem with laughtracks until and when (because it inevitably happens) it's used at the wrong time.

What I really hate are those "Ooooh" tracks. Oh, look they're going to kiss, let's drop in one of those "ooh" tracks because it's naughty! Or whatever BS reason the people in charge of those things have running through their minds. <Insert series of board-inappropriate cursing and jabs here.> :smallannoyed:

[turkishproverb]

...80's Dan?

[Morph Bark]

This is one reason I like Scrubs.

Despite also liking How I Met Your Mother and The Big Bang Theory.

[Dr.Epic]

...80's Dan?

It's a sort of parody of traditional 80s sitcoms. Episodes can be found here. (http://thecinemasnob.com/categories/263/80s-dan.aspx)

[turkishproverb]

Oh, I've seen it Dolly, I was just shocked someone else referenced it.

Now, to go watch Screwballs.

:smallcool::smalltongue:

[Weezer]

In my eyes laugh tracks can do two things, they can either accent the humor, give it life, or they can attempt to cover up the fact that the show isn't really funny.
A good example of the first is Blackadder or a Bit of Fry and Laurie, they had laugh tracks, but the laughter added to the humor, gave it a bit of color. A good example here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U7GKdbiA2c), from A Bit of Fry and Laurie.

On the opposite side of the fence, you have the cover up. A big example is Big Bang Theory. The number of videos that remove the laugh track and demonstrate how much the show uses it as a crutch to hide that it really isn't funny. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKS3MGriZcs)one example, there are many.


Also, one thing to remember is that even the live studio laugh tracks are only slightly more 'real' than canned ones. They're heavily edited, to the extent tha calling them live is a bit misleading.

[Mewtarthio]

On the opposite side of the fence, you have the cover up. A big example is Big Bang Theory. The number of videos that remove the laugh track and demonstrate how much the show uses it as a crutch to hide that it really isn't funny. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKS3MGriZcs)one example, there are many.

That's probably the saddest thing I've seen in my life. The problem there is that he removes the canned laughter without doing anything about the pauses in the dialogue included to accommodate it. The end result is that every line is punctuated by awkward silence, giving the impression that these characters have lost all hope in life and are now attempting a pale emulation of humor to distract themselves from the all-consuming emptiness within themselves. Rajesh is no doubt about to drink himself to death, and I'm assuming that this "Shamy" thing is some sort of apocalypse that will grind them and all their accomplishments to dust.

EDIT: And this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZ8Hks4gko) looks like a Lifetime drama about a young man who suffers from very real delusions involving comic book characters and a woman who's gradually driven to take advantage of him.

[Cikomyr]

I'm with Dr. Epic on this one. I don't have a problem with laughtracks until and when (because it inevitably happens) it's used at the wrong time.

What I really hate are those "Ooooh" tracks. Oh, look they're going to kiss, let's drop in one of those "ooh" tracks because it's naughty! Or whatever BS reason the people in charge of those things have running through their minds. <Insert series of board-inappropriate cursing and jabs here.> :smallannoyed:

And then again, there is the time when it fits well. Like when Penny kissed Leonard for the first time, or when she pops the L word on him...

[Kitten Champion]

I find it odd, after the proven success of non-laugh track comedies that there are any left in 2012. The only one remaining I remotely enjoy is Big Bang Theory and it's a tepid enjoyment at best.

The one thing I can argue in favour of it is that it makes you feel slightly less lonely.

[Dienekes]

That's probably the saddest thing I've seen in my life. The problem there is that he removes the canned laughter without doing anything about the pauses in the dialogue included to accommodate it. The end result is that every line is punctuated by awkward silence, giving the impression that these characters have lost all hope in life and are now attempting a pale emulation of humor to distract themselves from the all-consuming emptiness within themselves. Rajesh is no doubt about to drink himself to death, and I'm assuming that this "Shamy" thing is some sort of apocalypse that will grind them and all their accomplishments to dust.

EDIT: And this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZ8Hks4gko) looks like a Lifetime drama about a young man who suffers from very real delusions involving comic book characters and a woman who's gradually driven to take advantage of him.

The sad thing, I actually found a few of those jokes amusing, but then watching the characters just turn off and stare forward like broken cyborgs waiting for their next instruction killed off every potential chuckle before it escaped my mouth.

In any case, I prefer non-laugh track. Just look at that video and compare it to say Arrested Development. There probably would have been another joke or two in the time it took them to start talking again.

Anyway, example of a good laugh track? Maybe old radio shows? Jack Benny could really play an audience and it sounded genuine. That and many had a habit of leaning on the fourth wall to do a joke with the audience at times. I miss that good old comedy.

[Scowling Dragon]

I love black adder too, but I don't think the laugh track AIDS it. Its just clever in its own way.

[Avilan the Grey]

This is the distinction between a canned laughter track and a live audience.

The canned laughter is put where you are supposed to laugh. Proper live audience laughter is the genuine reaction of the people watching and often happens in places the writers weren't expecting. It sounds like a small thing, but it isn't.

Quoted for truth. Not only do you get the genuine response, but you also get a genuine response back from the actors.


On the opposite side of the fence, you have the cover up. A big example is Big Bang Theory. The number of videos that remove the laugh track and demonstrate how much the show uses it as a crutch to hide that it really isn't funny. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKS3MGriZcs)one example, there are many.

Big Bang uses a live audience. Also, taste is not fact. Big Bang is the funniest sitcom on TV at the moment, the funniest American sitcom of all times and top 3 sitcom period of all times (behind Fawlty Towers and Black Adder). IMHO, of course.


The sad thing, I actually found a few of those jokes amusing, but then watching the characters just turn off and stare forward like broken cyborgs waiting for their next instruction killed off every potential chuckle before it escaped my mouth.

I am sorry but you are definitely watching some other show. I do not recognize that at all, unless you mean when the actors wait for the live audience to stop laughing which happens a few times per show.

As for shows without laugh track: Never seen one I like that was supposed to be funny (aka billed as comedy). 99% of them tend to be pretentious crap. Now drama series do not need, or have ever used (with the possible exception of M.A.S.H.) laugh tracks, but you cannot really file Gilmore Girls in the same bin as Big Bang or How I Met Your Mother.

[Forrestfire]

I am not a fan of laugh tracks in general. They detract from whatever I'm supposed to be listening to or watching, and I sometimes feel patronized, like it's saying "this is where you're supposed to laugh." Maybe that last bit is just me, though.

In any case, there are shows like Big Bang Theory that I would probably like, but find unwatchable because of the laughing killing any immersion into the show itself. Dienekes' comparison to broken cyborgs waiting for their next instruction is extremely apt, even if it is recorded in front of a live audience.

It just kills any fun I would have watching the show.

[Avilan the Grey]

I am not a fan of laugh tracks in general. They detract from whatever I'm supposed to be listening to or watching, and I sometimes feel patronized, like it's saying "this is where you're supposed to laugh." Maybe that last bit is just me, though.

In any case, there are shows like Big Bang Theory that I would probably like, but find unwatchable because of the laughing killing any immersion into the show itself. Dienekes' comparison to broken cyborgs waiting for their next instruction is extremely apt, even if it is recorded in front of a live audience.

It just kills any fun I would have watching the show.

Well it must be difficult to find a 30 min sitcom that neither filmed in a live studio or use laugh tracks (I cannot remember seeing a single one, ever, going back to the birth of TV). It seems to me you might just not be a fan of the genre as such?

I wonder... do you enjoy watching live comedy acts? They have the exact same problem, after all.

[Feytalist]

Well it must be difficult to find a 30 min sitcom that neither filmed in a live studio or use laugh tracks (I cannot remember seeing a single one, ever, going back to the birth of TV). It seems to me you might just not be a fan of the genre as such?

Does something like Modern Family count? Or 30 Rock. Or The Office.

Of the three I only really like Modern Family, but the precedent is there.

[Scowling Dragon]

I wonder... do you enjoy watching live comedy acts? They have the exact same problem, after all.

No it isn't real people laughing has this infectious quality to it. I have had many a times I started laughing just because my family was laughing. Even for no reason at all.

[Morph Bark]

In my eyes laugh tracks can do two things, they can either accent the humor, give it life, or they can attempt to cover up the fact that the show isn't really funny.
A good example of the first is Blackadder or a Bit of Fry and Laurie, they had laugh tracks, but the laughter added to the humor, gave it a bit of color. A good example here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U7GKdbiA2c), from A Bit of Fry and Laurie.

I think I might actually like that better if the laugh track were cut out, personally.


this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZ8Hks4gko) looks like a Lifetime drama about a young man who suffers from very real delusions involving comic book characters and a woman who's gradually driven to take advantage of him.

Wow, that was pretty poorly edited. It felt so awkward, because the laughter being taken out also caused other sounds at the same time to be taken out (while keeping the end of the laughter there when the characters start speaking again).


The sad thing, I actually found a few of those jokes amusing, but then watching the characters just turn off and stare forward like broken cyborgs waiting for their next instruction killed off every potential chuckle before it escaped my mouth.

Yeah, I agree on that.

I like some laugh-track shows, some non-laugh-track. The latter would not be aided by it being added, the former sometimes would be aided by its removal (and simultaneous adjustment to that, so there'd be no awkward pauses).

[Scowling Dragon]

EDIT: And this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASZ8Hks4gko) looks like a Lifetime drama about a young man who suffers from very real delusions involving comic book characters and a woman who's gradually driven to take advantage of him.

....By removing the laugh track its actually made VERY funny by the bleakness.

Everybody is so depressed and dead inside. Just HILARIOUS. :biggrin:

[The Succubus]

You know what Rich should do? Add canned laughter to the comic strip! The next time someone does something funny, at the bottom of the panel is a little white strip saying "Ha ha ha ha!".

:smallbiggrin:

[Cikomyr]

....By removing the laugh track its actually made VERY funny by the bleakness.

Everybody is so depressed and dead inside. Just HILARIOUS. :biggrin:

Agreed... There is something... awkward about it... And sad...

[Kato]

You know, I really never pay attention to the laugh tracks, consciously. It neither annoys me nor does it encourage me. But just for comparison I'd really like to try watching a show with and without laugh track... Too bad it's not an option on anything I can think of.
(Then again I'm pretty easily amused and laugh about the stupidest jokes anyway)

[Gettles]

You guys DO realize that laugh tracks pretty much died off in the 50s and most traditional sitcoms use live audiences, right? I think How I Met Your Mother is the only one that isn't shot in front of an audience.

[Cikomyr]

MASH is definitely more enjoyable, IMHO, without the laugh track. It let's you laugh at the jokes YOU see rather than the ones the writers saw.

In the UK, broadcast of the show was purged of any laugh tracks. Once, they showed an episode accidentally with the tracks on, and apparently the network received hundreds of complains from angry viewers who though the show was being ruined.

[Scowling Dragon]

You guys DO realize that laugh tracks pretty much died off in the 50s and most traditional sitcoms use live audiences, right? I think How I Met Your Mother is the only one that isn't shot in front of an audience.

Doesn't matter. Has the same effect anyway.

[Dienekes]

I am sorry but you are definitely watching some other show. I do not recognize that at all, unless you mean when the actors wait for the live audience to stop laughing which happens a few times per show.

As for shows without laugh track: Never seen one I like that was supposed to be funny (aka billed as comedy). 99% of them tend to be pretentious crap. Now drama series do not need, or have ever used (with the possible exception of M.A.S.H.) laugh tracks, but you cannot really file Gilmore Girls in the same bin as Big Bang or How I Met Your Mother.

Did you watch the link in the post I quoted? Because I'm agreeing with you, they took out the audience laughter and so the actors wait for the audience to stop laughing, but since you don't hear any laughter they just stare out in silence, it's off putting.

Also, there are great complete comedies that don't use a laugh track. Arrested Development is one of the funniest shows I've ever seen. Community is in my opinion far funnier than BBT or HIMYM ever were. Parks and Rec, and The Office as well. I wouldn't call any of them pretentious crap, but they are able to get more jokes in per minute since they do not have to wait for the audience to stop laughing.

[Avilan the Grey]

No it isn't real people laughing has this infectious quality to it. I have had many a times I started laughing just because my family was laughing. Even for no reason at all.

And again that marks the difference between canned laugher and live audience.


Did you watch the link in the post I quoted? Because I'm agreeing with you, they took out the audience laughter and so the actors wait for the audience to stop laughing, but since you don't hear any laughter they just stare out in silence, it's off putting.

Also, there are great complete comedies that don't use a laugh track. Arrested Development is one of the funniest shows I've ever seen. Community is in my opinion far funnier than BBT or HIMYM ever were. Parks and Rec, and The Office as well. I wouldn't call any of them pretentious crap, but they are able to get more jokes in per minute since they do not have to wait for the audience to stop laughing.

Ah. No I didn't; my computer at work does not have flash installed and i have no permision to install it. So from reading your comment it sounded like you were making fun of them, rather than agreeing. Sorry!!

Arrested development is funny, but highly overrated IMHO (it's just not my kind of humor. My wife worships it, and I can watch it, but to me most of it just feels awkward. I almost feel... dirty for watching such a dysfunctional group, like I was watching a 19th century sideshow). The office was never funny (american nor british version) and the same goes for Community.

[Squark]

I know that Jim Henson and Co. didn't want a Laugh Track on the Muppet Show, but got one anyway- Except for the Steve Martin episode. That one was just supposed to feature laughter from the muppetteers themselves, except they were too loud and the laughter had to be replaced.


And I suppose since the Muppet Show was genuinely supposed to be performed in front of a live (well, felt, but you know what I mean) audience, it was less immersion breaking than it might have been on other shows.

[Socratov]

Well, I think it can be used well, Sometimes I don't even notice until I see the episode again and suddenly notice it. If at first you don't notice it at all it's used right becuase it's well timed... If however you notice it right away, it's wrong and the producer/editor should be shot.

[Aotrs Commander]

A practical benefit to live audiences (and their laughter) is that it often improved the performance of the actors. Certainly, it was very, very noticable in Red Dwarf Back to Earth verses the Red Dwarf X (and the prior series) that they were very much more on form when they get some interaction with the audiences. I also once saw a comedian (Ed somebody or other, Irish chap (I think), used to have long hair, who's name completely escapes for the moment, and I can't even remember what other shows he's done to look his name up...!) Ed Burne, of course! doing one of those commerical bloopers shows. He was clearly in front of a green screen, and though he was trying, really wasn't up to his usual standard without an audience. (And even the Now Show which has occaionally had to go without a studio audience was markedly suffering for it.)

(And I know this for a personal fact, given I do panto, that everyone is just that little bit sharper when there's actually an audience present.)

So, while canned laughter is rather pointless, for reasons priorly mentioned, I think that for sit-coms, anyway, there is a still a good practical reason for having live audiences.



(Also Blackadder and Red Dwarf are the best comedies ever and nothing else has come close.)

[Makensha]

I thought the laugh track was used to lengthen the run time.

[Sipex]

I agree with what looks to be the consensus, Laugh Tracks are unnatural and weird but Live Audiences can really add to the show.

I'll use Big Bang Theory (a show which I enjoy and I know has a live audience) as my primary example here.

Now, we all know most of the actors on the show (except maybe Wallowitz) aren't really all that nerdy, they have writers who are though (and writers who aren't, which is why their nerdiness is both accurate and over the top) so the intelligent jokes are actually intelligent. Now, my aunt loves the show as well but she's not on the same wavelength as me, she's not dumb by any chance, but the in depth physics jokes and such are hard for her to understand. With the audience laughing, she gets a sense of the more intelligent jokes which are supposed to be funny and it makes her feel like she can laugh along (without laughing at a weird moment and having others look at her with confusion).

In addition, I recently watched some of the special features on my discs and in one of them the actors for Sheldon and Amy interviewed each other with a set of pre-made questions. During this interview Sheldon's actor explained that he really feeds off the live audience and Amy noted that the entire cast notices a huge improvement in his work as soon as the audience is introduced.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Isn't MST3K basically premised around adding a snark track for the lolz? That seems like an interesting angle on the "laugh track" thing.

[Kindablue]

I love black adder too, but I don't think the laugh track AIDS it. Its just clever in its own way.

This is either the best or the worst use of capslock to emphasize a word I've ever seen.

ETA: I've seen a blooper reel of TBBT, and watching the parts that are them telling jokes correctly before one of them says marmalade wrong, I find that the show would be a lot funnier without the sweetened up audience. I really like Conan and Jimmy Fallon, but both of them have the same problem to me, they just don't sweeten up the crowd on a computer.

[Weezer]

A practical benefit to live audiences (and their laughter) is that it often improved the performance of the actors. Certainly, it was very, very noticable in Red Dwarf Back to Earth verses the Red Dwarf X (and the prior series) that they were very much more on form when they get some interaction with the audiences. I also once saw a comedian (Ed somebody or other, Irish chap (I think), used to have long hair, who's name completely escapes for the moment, and I can't even remember what other shows he's done to look his name up...!) Ed Burne, of course! doing one of those commerical bloopers shows. He was clearly in front of a green screen, and though he was trying, really wasn't up to his usual standard without an audience. (And even the Now Show which has occaionally had to go without a studio audience was markedly suffering for it.)

(And I know this for a personal fact, given I do panto, that everyone is just that little bit sharper when there's actually an audience present.)

So, while canned laughter is rather pointless, for reasons priorly mentioned, I think that for sit-coms, anyway, there is a still a good practical reason for having live audiences.



(Also Blackadder and Red Dwarf are the best comedies ever and nothing else has come close.)

I think that it's a sign of lackluster acting ability (or a failure of the director to get the actor to perform to his/her best ability) if an actor can't give a similar performance with or without a live audience. And it makes sense for the examples you gave, while I love Red Dwarf so much, none of the actors are particularly good.



And again that marks the difference between canned laugher and live audience.

As I pointed out above, there really is no difference between canned laughter and live studio laughter, both are only put in when the editor wants them, and the levels are similarly adjusted to match the desired effect. That's why in a live audience laugh track you never really hear one person laughing, or a single annoying laugh sticking out amongst the rest.






Big Bang uses a live audience. Also, taste is not fact. Big Bang is the funniest sitcom on TV at the moment, the funniest American sitcom of all times and top 3 sitcom period of all times (behind Fawlty Towers and Black Adder). IMHO, of course.

I am sorry but you are definitely watching some other show. I do not recognize that at all, unless you mean when the actors wait for the live audience to stop laughing which happens a few times per show.

As for shows without laugh track: Never seen one I like that was supposed to be funny (aka billed as comedy). 99% of them tend to be pretentious crap. Now drama series do not need, or have ever used (with the possible exception of M.A.S.H.) laugh tracks, but you cannot really file Gilmore Girls in the same bin as Big Bang or How I Met Your Mother.

Same goes for your taste.

Yeah, and in what other good shows, even with laugh tracks, do the actors wait for the laughter? None of the ones I can think of. That's a sign of pretty bad editing/directing. You should never have your characters stitting around waiting for laughter to stop, it's supposted to be a TV show 'representing' actual people, not stand up comedy.

MASH is a sitcom, not a drama. It has dramatic elements, yes, but overall, it's a sitcom.

If by pretentious crap you mean shows that avoid insulting their audiences intelligence with humor on the level of "oh look, it's geeky, time to laugh", then yes, the good sitcoms are pretentious crap.

[Avilan the Grey]

Yeah, and in what other good shows, even with laugh tracks, do the actors wait for the laughter? None of the ones I can think of. That's a sign of pretty bad editing/directing. You should never have your characters stitting around waiting for laughter to stop, it's supposted to be a TV show 'representing' actual people, not stand up comedy.

MASH is a sitcom, not a drama. It has dramatic elements, yes, but overall, it's a sitcom.

If by pretentious crap you mean shows that avoid insulting their audiences intelligence with humor on the level of "oh look, it's geeky, time to laugh", then yes, the good sitcoms are pretentious crap.

(sarcasm mode)Yes it is a shame and sign of a bad product that the live audience really have a good time. (/sarcasm mode)

MASH is a DRAMADY. It's a genre. It invented it, in fact. The fact that you bill it as a pure sitcom makes me think that you don't know your TV shows very well at all.

As for pretentious crap I mean things like The Office, Community, etc. And yes OF COURSE it is my personal taste. I made that perfectly clear in my post above.

[Dienekes]

Ok, I gotta ask. While I can vaguely see The Office, what is possibly pretentious about Community? It's about a bunch of self centered idiots doing completely random things like building giant blanket forts and having amazing paintball fights.

[Avilan the Grey]

Ok, I gotta ask. While I can vaguely see The Office, what is possibly pretentious about Community? It's about a bunch of self centered idiots doing completely random things like building giant blanket forts and having amazing paintball fights.

Sorry I just don't enjoy it, on any level. :smallsmile:

[Mewtarthio]

Sorry I just don't enjoy it, on any level. :smallsmile:

That's fine, but that's not what "pretentious" means. It's one thing to say "I don't like any shows without laugh tracks"; that's just a statement of fact (unless you're lying for some bizarre reason). It's another thing to say "Shows without laugh tracks are so full of themselves!"

30 Rock, The Office, Community, and Arrested Development are all silly shows about silly people doing silly things, and they're well aware of their silliness and don't pretend to be anything more. Okay, maybe 30 Rock has political satire in it, but all factions are represented by deliberately exaggerated strawmen flailing at each other ineffectually, so it doesn't seem to have any message to get across. I can't see how you can call those shows "pretentious" unless you think that Dean Pelton is supposed to be an indictment of the American education system or that Dwight and Jim are allegories for Theocracy and Humanism or something equally outlandish.

[GoblinArchmage]

So speaking of The Big Bang Theory, does anybody else think that TBS should change their motto from "Very funny" to "Mildly amusing?"

[Dienekes]

Sorry I just don't enjoy it, on any level. :smallsmile:

That's fine, I think HIMYM is a bunch of unfunny people spiraling through the exact same will they/won't they/oh God show us his wife already storyline. But that doesn't make it pretentious, it's just not my kind of humor.

I don't think Community has ever even attempted to look like anything other than a comedy show about a bunch of misfits. There's nothing pretentious about it. Ok, they may think that they're smarter and funnier than Glee, but that's such a low bar to set I don't think anyone would begrudge them that.

[Weezer]

That's fine, I think HIMYM is a bunch of unfunny people spiraling through the exact same will they/won't they/oh God show us his wife already storyline. But that doesn't make it pretentious, it's just not my kind of humor.

I don't think Community has ever even attempted to look like anything other than a comedy show about a bunch of misfits. There's nothing pretentious about it. Ok, they may think that they're smarter and funnier than Glee, but that's such a low bar to set I don't think anyone would begrudge them that.

I kind of disagree. Yeah, it's a bunch of silly people doing silly things, but beneath that are some pretty intense parodies/satires of an odd mix of popular culture and obscure stuff. For example Documentary Filmmaking: Redux (the one about making the Greendale commercial) is funny enough to stand on its own. However, it is also a parody/tribute (the line is blurred) to the documentary Hearts of Darkness, and knowledge of that movie adds to the depth of the episode. The same can be said for many of the other episodes.

[Dienekes]

I kind of disagree. Yeah, it's a bunch of silly people doing silly things, but beneath that are some pretty intense parodies/satires of an odd mix of popular culture and obscure stuff. For example Documentary Filmmaking: Redux (the one about making the Greendale commercial) is funny enough to stand on its own. However, it is also a parody/tribute (the line is blurred) to the documentary Hearts of Darkness, and knowledge of that movie adds to the depth of the episode. The same can be said for many of the other episodes.

Yes, I agree, sort of. I just don't think that references to pop culture makes the jokes intelligent, or anything other than references to pop culture. Now don't misread me here, I love it. Abed is my favorite character on the show. And as a fan of all things mafia/gangster related the chicken episode was amazing for me as I cheerily announced exactly what scene from what movie they were referencing throughout (much to the annoyance of my brother). And the parody of Civil War the documentary/every History channell battle reenactment episode ever? Had me in stitches the entire time. But I see it's pop culture fixation as on exactly the same level as BBT ability to turn physics into jokes. It's just the type of humor they have, nothing more, nothing less.

[Avilan the Grey]

That's fine, but that's not what "pretentious" means. It's one thing to say "I don't like any shows without laugh tracks"; that's just a statement of fact (unless you're lying for some bizarre reason). It's another thing to say "Shows without laugh tracks are so full of themselves!"

30 Rock, The Office, Community, and Arrested Development are all silly shows about silly people doing silly things, and they're well aware of their silliness and don't pretend to be anything more. Okay, maybe 30 Rock has political satire in it, but all factions are represented by deliberately exaggerated strawmen flailing at each other ineffectually, so it doesn't seem to have any message to get across. I can't see how you can call those shows "pretentious" unless you think that Dean Pelton is supposed to be an indictment of the American education system or that Dwight and Jim are allegories for Theocracy and Humanism or something equally outlandish.

Fine. Some of them are not pretentious, just crap. But yes, most of them are. To choose that format is a matter of status. Maybe I should call them "hipster" instead, I don't know. All I know is that I don't like them and most of my friends who do ARE pretentious. Or at least hipster elitist snobs. (And that is an objective truth; I love them, but that is what they are).


So speaking of The Big Bang Theory, does anybody else think that TBS should change their motto from "Very funny" to "Mildly amusing?"

Most likely :smallbiggrin: I am definitely not one of them though.

[Dienekes]

Fine. Some of them are not pretentious, just crap. But yes, most of them are. To choose that format is a matter of status.

What does this even mean?

I think you're saying, some comedy shows without laughing tracks aren't pretentious but most of them are, because they don't have laughing tracks because of status? How does one ever lead into another?

It has nothing to do with status, some people just don't like laughing tracks and so make their shows without laughing tracks.

[Weezer]

Fine. Some of them are not pretentious, just crap. But yes, most of them are. To choose that format is a matter of status. Maybe I should call them "hipster" instead, I don't know. All I know is that I don't like them and most of my friends who do ARE pretentious. Or at least hipster elitist snobs. (And that is an objective truth; I love them, but that is what they are).

I think the difference can be chalked up to a preference for multi-camera sitcom over single camera sitcom (or vice versa for those who prefer say Office or Community over BBT). Multicams are cheaper to make and are the format of the 'classic' sitcom. Single cams on the other hand are far more expensive and until recently have been used mostly for 'serious' TV (dramas etc). However with the explosive popularity of a few single cam sitcoms (the earliest ones being Spaced, The Office and Scrubs), this style of sitcom has grown in number with shows like Community, Parks and Rec, Always Sunny, and 30 Rock, while multi-cams have declined with the only two major ones still on I can think of are BBT and Two and a Half Men (shudder). Also, multicams are the ones that almost always have live audiences, it's essentially impossible (due to logistics) for a single cam to have one.

[GolemsVoice]

I think that it's a sign of lackluster acting ability (or a failure of the director to get the actor to perform to his/her best ability) if an actor can't give a similar performance with or without a live audience. And it makes sense for the examples you gave, while I love Red Dwarf so much, none of the actors are particularly good.

It's a psychological effect. Because even if the crowd doesn't interact with you in any active way, they still laugh, and you can play to that. Now, if an actor is significantly worse without a live audience, yes, that oculd be poor acting ability, but especially comedy actors and comedians rely heavily on the audience's reactions.

[Kiero]

I've never seen a laugh track used well, and I find them so intensely annoying as to render anything they're "supporting" unfunny.

[Weezer]

It's a psychological effect. Because even if the crowd doesn't interact with you in any active way, they still laugh, and you can play to that. Now, if an actor is significantly worse without a live audience, yes, that oculd be poor acting ability, but especially comedy actors and comedians rely heavily on the audience's reactions.

Yes, but it's one that a good actor should get past, or a good director should get them past. Movies are never shot in front of a live audience (to my knowledge), and yet they seem to manage good acting, when the actor/director is actually good.

[Gettles]

Yes, but it's one that a good actor should get past, or a good director should get them past. Movies are never shot in front of a live audience (to my knowledge), and yet they seem to manage good acting, when the actor/director is actually good.

Yes, but how many sitcoms are star someone whose primary background is in either stand-up or improv?

[Weezer]

Yes, but how many sitcoms are star someone whose primary background is in either stand-up or improv?

A lot. Thus their lack of ability to act as well sans audience. Your point?

[Forrestfire]

Well it must be difficult to find a 30 min sitcom that neither filmed in a live studio or use laugh tracks (I cannot remember seeing a single one, ever, going back to the birth of TV). It seems to me you might just not be a fan of the genre as such?

I wonder... do you enjoy watching live comedy acts? They have the exact same problem, after all.

I've avoided the majority of sitcoms for that reason, in fact. However, there are some that I've watched that I would probably enjoy a lot if I could get past the laugh track/audiences. I just can't remember them off the top of my head :smallsigh:

In any case, I do enjoy watching live comedy acts, but that's because I have a different expectation for them. A stand up comedian is on stage in order to make the audience laugh; there is no plotline and no characters unless the comedian makes them up for a specific joke. I watch tv shows because I enjoy the plot and interactions between characters, even if there isn't much plot or character to be watched. The laughter from the audience takes away from that.

[Sholos]

On the opposite side of the fence, you have the cover up. A big example is Big Bang Theory. The number of videos that remove the laugh track and demonstrate how much the show uses it as a crutch to hide that it really isn't funny. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKS3MGriZcs)one example, there are many.
Well, as has been said already, BBT is, in fact filmed with a live audience, so the laughter you hear is from that audience. Not a track. In addition, I watched that short bit, and I actually laughed a fair amount, even without the track. So, consider your point failed? At least with me.


Yes, but it's one that a good actor should get past, or a good director should get them past. Movies are never shot in front of a live audience (to my knowledge), and yet they seem to manage good acting, when the actor/director is actually good.
Ah, but how do you know that those films wouldn't have had even better acting in front of an audience? I don't think it's fair to say that one is a bad actor just because they do better in front of an audience. Especially in something like comedy.


I've avoided the majority of sitcoms for that reason, in fact. However, there are some that I've watched that I would probably enjoy a lot if I could get past the laugh track/audiences. I just can't remember them off the top of my head :smallsigh:

In any case, I do enjoy watching live comedy acts, but that's because I have a different expectation for them. A stand up comedian is on stage in order to make the audience laugh; there is no plotline and no characters unless the comedian makes them up for a specific joke. I watch tv shows because I enjoy the plot and interactions between characters, even if there isn't much plot or character to be watched. The laughter from the audience takes away from that.
I'm confused. Are you saying that comedy shows are not, in fact, designed primarily to make people laugh?

[Weezer]

Well, as has been said already, BBT is, in fact filmed with a live audience, so the laughter you hear is from that audience. Not a track. In addition, I watched that short bit, and I actually laughed a fair amount, even without the track. So, consider your point failed? At least with me.

Laugh track is any show with laughter overlaid, whether that laughter is from a live audience or is canned laughter. It is a track even live, the laughter is on a different audio track than say the actors dialogue or the soundtrack. And as I mentioned above, there is no effective difference between the two.



Ah, but how do you know that those films wouldn't have had even better acting in front of an audience? I don't think it's fair to say that one is a bad actor just because they do better in front of an audience. Especially in something like comedy.?

Well you can tell with actors that have done both and are about equal in acting skill for each (say John Cleese, Stephen Fry, or Hugh Laurie), but otherwise, yeah it can be difficult to tell. I think it's fair to say that if you need a live audience to act to your full potential, then there is a flaw in your acting skill. It may not make you bad per say, but just not perfect or amazing.

[Forrestfire]

I'm confused. Are you saying that comedy shows are not, in fact, designed primarily to make people laugh?

No, I'm saying that I watch shows primarily for the plot and characters, even if there is only a small amount of it. That's why I don't like Big Bang Theory, for instance, even though I would probably enjoy it if it were filmed without an audience.

EDIT: I'd like to make a note that anything I say is just my opinion and specific only to my viewing tastes.

[Avilan the Grey]

Laugh track is any show with laughter overlaid, whether that laughter is from a live audience or is canned laughter. It is a track even live, the laughter is on a different audio track than say the actors dialogue or the soundtrack. And as I mentioned above, there is no effective difference between the two..

To you, maybe. As an objective fact, there is a huge difference.


I think the difference can be chalked up to a preference for multi-camera sitcom over single camera sitcom (or vice versa for those who prefer say Office or Community over BBT). Multicams are cheaper to make and are the format of the 'classic' sitcom. Single cams on the other hand are far more expensive and until recently have been used mostly for 'serious' TV (dramas etc). However with the explosive popularity of a few single cam sitcoms (the earliest ones being Spaced, The Office and Scrubs), this style of sitcom has grown in number with shows like Community, Parks and Rec, Always Sunny, and 30 Rock, while multi-cams have declined with the only two major ones still on I can think of are BBT and Two and a Half Men (shudder). Also, multicams are the ones that almost always have live audiences, it's essentially impossible (due to logistics) for a single cam to have one.

Quite possible, although the problem I think is not the number of cameras (I LOVED Scrubs the first 3-4 seasons before it jumped sharks and stuff) but more writing style. I loathe cringe comedy. If I feel embarassed on behalf of the characters (which I often do) I cannot find it funny. Maybe because I was bullied all my childhood, I don't know. My wife loves those kind of situations, and I just have to turn away my head and cannot watch because I cringe so much.

As for "classical" sitcoms... Let's see. The Big Bang Theory, How I Met Your Mother, Mike and Molly, Hot In Cleveland, Two And A Half Men, Two Broke Girls, Men at Work, Happily Divorced... Those are just a few running right now, once a week.

[Weezer]

To you, maybe. As an objective fact, there is a huge difference.

What difference? You have heavily edited laughter that comes up exactly how the director/producer wants it, and then you have canned laughter.




Quite possible, although the problem I think is not the number of cameras (I LOVED Scrubs the first 3-4 seasons before it jumped sharks and stuff) but more writing style. I loathe cringe comedy. If I feel embarassed on behalf of the characters (which I often do) I cannot find it funny. Maybe because I was bullied all my childhood, I don't know. My wife loves those kind of situations, and I just have to turn away my head and cannot watch because I cringe so much.

As for "classical" sitcoms... Let's see. The Big Bang Theory, How I Met Your Mother, Mike and Molly, Hot In Cleveland, Two And A Half Men, Two Broke Girls, Men at Work, Happily Divorced... Those are just a few running right now, once a week.

So you prefer to watch a show that exists to make fun of geeks, social awkwardness, and a person with Hollywood 'aspergers'? Makes sense.

I did forget How I Met Your Mother, but the others, barring apparently Mike and Molly, aren't exactly "major". I hadn't heard of any of the others, and looking them up, they seem to have pretty bad (and steadily declining) ratings. Mike and Molly is the the only one that seems successful, with ~11 million viewers (compared to the less than 2 million for the other small sitcoms you mentioned and about 20 million for the most recent BBT season).

[Avilan the Grey]

What difference? You have heavily edited laughter that comes up exactly how the director/producer wants it, and then you have canned laughter.

...

So you prefer to watch a show that exists to make fun of geeks, social awkwardness, and a person with Hollywood 'aspergers'? Makes sense.

See, that's where you are wrong. If it "only shows up where the producer wants it" you would not have the "badly edited pauses" where the actors wait for the very real laughter to stop.

If I see a popular sitcom that makes fun of geeks I will let you know. (BBT does not).

As for the rest... I don't care if "traditional sitcoms" are not the rage anymore. Numbers says otherwise, although Chuck Lorre is the king of sitcoms (three of the top 5 are his creations). At least they are not being replaced by braindead reality shows this time (which was the case last time people proclaimed the sitcom dead, 10 or so years ago, when Friends was done).

Besides, I don't know the history or the math, but how many successful sitcoms tend to run at the same time in the US anyway? Back in the day, wasn't it just Friends, Frasier and maybe one more at the top then too? And everyone else had to fight for ratings? Is the situation really different this time?

[Weezer]

If I see a popular sitcom that makes fun of geeks I will let you know. (BBT does not).


Really? I quite disagree, that's all it seems to be to me. The best description I've ever heard is that the show is like blackface, but for nerds (nerdface?).

[Fragenstein]

Really? I quite disagree, that's all it seems to be to me. The best description I've ever heard is that the show is like blackface, but for nerds (nerdface?).

A lot of CBS shows being strewn about, here. Which leads me to ask...

Why are they eating in every other scene? Big Bang and Rules of Engagement seem to be the worst at this, but they're not alone. Seriously. BBT alone has three sets dedicated solely to eating, I swear. And I got tired of watching them all chew with their mouths open three episodes in.

[Raimun]

I will laugh if I find the stuff funny. I don't need to be told when it's the time. Also, the laughter is padding. The dialog has to stop until the laughter stops. This creates unnecessary static gaps where the characters just look at each other. Boring! Even worse, they don't stop the action and sometimes the dialog is muffled under the laughter.

There's no reason to have laugh tracks. That's final.

Only shows I accept genuine studio audience laughter are talk shows, like those hosted by Conan O'Brien. The show isn't entirely scripted and the audience actually plays a vital part. Conan interacts with them and some sketches are based on the fact that there is an audience. In other words, audience laughter makes sense in talk shows, where you can see the audience.

But genuine audience laughter in a sitcom? Give me a break.

[Lord Seth]

On the opposite side of the fence, you have the cover up. A big example is Big Bang Theory. The number of videos that remove the laugh track and demonstrate how much the show uses it as a crutch to hide that it really isn't funny. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKS3MGriZcs)one example, there are many.Ugh, not this again.

These sort of things don't somehow "prove" it's being used as a crutch because while they take out the laughter, it takes out everything in the silence, resulting in weird blank spaces that kills the jokes. Furthermore, the actors are acting "around" the studio audience (that is, the scenes would play out differently if it was just single camera), so it's basically setting you up to hear it (even not counting the blank spaces), but without it the whole thing comes across as awkward. It's the same way that throwing in a laugh track to something like Arrested Development makes it less funny, because Arrested Development is designed to not have one, so inserting one in feels as awkward as taking one out of The Big Bang Theory.

It's a bit amusing to see how shows can come across differently if you excise the laughter, but it really isn't an argument as to how it is/isn't funny. People always cherry pick scenes that are hurt the most by the loss of the laughter anyway for these things.


Also, one thing to remember is that even the live studio laugh tracks are only slightly more 'real' than canned ones. They're heavily edited, to the extent tha calling them live is a bit misleading.It's true they're edited, but I give them considerable credit for actually going through the effort of recording it with a studio audience, and the laughter at least starts somewhere real.

Plus with a studio audience, even edited, you don't seem to get this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YguljAFU3Bc).
I find it odd, after the proven success of non-laugh track comedies that there are any left in 2012.Other than Modern Family, all of the most popular comedies right now have studio audiences or laugh tracks.

[Weezer]

Plus with a studio audience, even edited, you don't seem to get this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YguljAFU3Bc).

Actually, How I Met Your Mother's laugh track is generated by a live audience watching the final edit of the show.

[Tiki Snakes]

Actually, How I Met Your Mother's laugh track is generated by a live audience watching the final edit of the show.

The linked video kind of...makes that sound unlikely.

[Weezer]

The linked video kind of...makes that sound unlikely.

I'm just taking my information from wikipedia:


The laugh track is later created by recording an audience being shown the final edited episode.

I'm not saying they do it well, but it appears that they do use live laughter, which again supports my point that the two aren't appreciably different.

EDIT: and if anyone cares, this (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/01/how_i_met_your_.html)is the article where the information is coming from.

[Kato]

Really, I wouldn't read the article quite like that... and the video makes it entirely unbelievable... I never paid attention but I'm sure now I will not be able to un-notice it... yay.

[Sipex]

So...from the looks of things, for people who like studio audiences and laugh tracks, they think they're helpful.

For people who hate them, they think they're detrimental.

So we can just chalk this whole thing up to "Everyone has different tastes".

[Morithias]

So we can just chalk this whole thing up to "Everyone has different tastes".

And now you never have to listen to a single debate on a media related subject ever again.

[Sipex]

But nobody is right or wrong. Unless someone has some game changing evidence on the matter, ratings or the like, the question at hand has been resolved.

It's getting to the point where the two sides are just going to get louder and louder, feelings get hurt and then the thread gets locked. We've all seen this before.

[Avilan the Grey]

Really? I quite disagree, that's all it seems to be to me. The best description I've ever heard is that the show is like blackface, but for nerds (nerdface?).

It's your oppinion of course. All nerds and geeks I know LOVE the show. So do all scientists I know.

In fact, it is the one show that has always taken the geek's side. The heroes are geeks and proud of it.

As of October 21st 2012, these were the ranked comedies in the US according to CNN / EW:

1. Modern Family (second highest rated show PERIOD after Sunday Night Football) - "Single Camera"*, no laugh track.
2. The Big Bang Theory (also third highesdt rated show period) - Standars Sitcom, live audience
3. Family Guy - Animated, no laugh track
4. Two and a Half Men - Standars Sitcom, live audience
5. Two Broke Girls - Standars Sitcom, live audience
6. The Simpsons - Animated, no laugh track
7. How I Met Your Mother -Standard sitcom, laugh track
8. New Girl - "Single camera", no laugh track
9. Mike and Molly - Standard sitcom, live audience
10. American Dad - Animated, no laugh track

That is 50% are standard "laugh track" sitcoms. 20% is "single camera" shows. 30% are animated shows.

*All "single camera" has multiple cameras on set.