My own draconic empire...help please :-)

[AzazelSephiroth]

Hey All!

I am currently a player in a very exciting campaign in which all characters are Monsters using CR as a starting ECL. This has led to some strange combinations, and while our current group may be a bit OP (a minotaur barb, mindflayer cleric, phoelarch dervish, hippogriff wizard, a destrachan, and juevenile red dragon) we have had some very cool encounters thus far!
Are current story-line is a large island untouched by humans for centuries. Thus monstrous races are the norm. However recent events have humans colonizing the island and displacing the residents... often violently. After escaping imprisonment in a wizard's gem mine, our party has slain said wizard, taken vengeance on his puny village ;-) and now has a volcano lair+lucrative gem mine and newly established fire dwarf village under our rule. My character, the red dragon, is very intelligent (int 32, spell hoarding+riddled) and will only grow in power. And he has decided that the logical move is to unite all the monstrous races under one banner to repel the humans who are coming en mass and to create a stable civilization that can hold off similar incursions later... all under his rule of course :-).
My problem comes with this... I am unsure what steps to take next to begin my hostile take over/enlightened rule of the masses. My DM is totally down with the story concept etc, but I confess I am not INT 32 and do not often play ruthless evil tyrants with cold calculating intellects... I tend towards just the opposite good, heroic, servers to kings. So given the following information:
Lucrative gem mine- numbers unsure, but said will be highly profitable
Powerful party composed of the above
Leadership and with 70+ followers- cohort is a midgard dwarf half -dragon
Int of 32 (although my int is much lower lols)
Casts as a 5th level wizard with access to cleric spells (DM ruling in my favor)
A dwarven city LG, a ogre town??, a hill/fire giant city LE, and a goblin town CN, are our neighbors... the goblins already work for me as miners and warriors in trade for firewworks.
3.5 all books allowed

What advice, mechanical and/roleplaying wise can the great forums give me. How do I begin, what should I craft, cast, plan for? I am hoping that with the playground's combined Int score and those out there with experience playing ruthless rulers ;-) I can build the greatest Dragon Empire this world will see!

Thanks so much in advance and sorry for the long post... and any errors, I am away from computer and using a smartphone
edited for some errors...finally have a computer again!

[Randomguy]

You might want to take a look at the evil overlord list (http://legendspbem.angelfire.com/eviloverlordlist.html). Not all of the advice will be applicable, but a lot of it should be.
Looking into the tippyverse may also be a good idea.

[Chilingsworth]

Wait, a hippogriff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hippogriff.htm) wizard? You mean, the usually int 2, non-sentient creature, as a wizard? How??

On another note, I've been making inquires along similiar lines. Maybe the threads I started could help?

"Modernizing" An Evil D&D Society (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263535)

Improving D&D GDP (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263729)

[ShadowFireLance]

Draconic...Empire....
*Everyone else takes off because they know a long post is about to be done*
Alright, Me needs some basics, First, You have Leadership 70+ Correct? How, Is that combined, Or You by yourself?
2nd: Do you have any Levels other then Red Dragon?
3rd: Draconomicon, The Best book for Dragons, Ever.
4th: Mind Flayer, Get him to take Some Psionic Classes, Or Your Wizard to Start working on getting a Genesis Spell, Then Have your Amazing Valcano Lair Be a Portal to said Demiplane, Which is entirely unhostpitable, Except to you.
5: Gem Mine: Hire/Follower Take rouge for first level, Or Expert, For The Skill points, And Take Professsion: Miner and start mining out the GP, Use said Gp for Making Castles, And buying Mercs.
6th: Use said followers to be mates, and start your own Army of Half-Dragons.
7th: Try to hunt down some Other Dragons in the world, And offer them Gp/Hoard Increasement if they assist you.
8th: Look up Dragon Skull totems, (Dragonlance, Dragons Of Kyrnn or Age of Mortals) And start becoming Awesome.
9th: Get the Favor of Tiamat on your side, Having a Goddess that likes you is always great.
10th: Breath weapon feats, max yours out, You CANNOT ignore the Power of them.
11th: At this point, you are such a Badass Dragon, No one would dare fight you, eat some Annoying Wizards.
12: Become a Great Wyrm, Be awesome.

That is all for now.
:smallcool:

[Phelix-Mu]

Well, as a creature with already formidable powers, a good move would be to add to your credibility by acting to defend the common interests of the islanders. Luckily, an island is one of the easiest territories to defend (barring armies of greater teleport enabled enemies, which is a harder nut to crack).

The are eye of the windstorm/x line of items from DMG, I believe. Early on recruit some spellcasters who can create bad conditions on the high seas. Have your allies craft items that will be good for wreaking ships, recruit aquatic monster allies, etc. Basically, make a naval invasion a suicide mission. This shouldn't be too hard, since between summoning/binding water elementals and befriending dragon turtles, kraken, sea serpents, etc, there are lots of hazards to put in the water. Boats are truly quite fragile (a good series of warp wood spells will do-in most any vessel). Check out Stormwrack supplement if it's available, or just to help with brainstorming for island defenses.

Once you have defended the seas, you force your opponents into the air. Since you are a dragon, and a number of the other party members have flight ability, this is good. The air is not the natural place for humans, and they will be relying heavily on magic. Enter the dispel magic spells and their ilk. Dispelling screen and dispelling breath (both Spell Compendium) are excellent, and if you can manage the bigger anti-magic/rod of negation/mordenkainen's disjunction guns, the more the merrier. Finally, aerial swarms and visibility control are even more dangerous to enemies that are navigating enemy terrain; use invisibility or hallucinatory terrain/mirage arcana to hide mountains, villages, or create decoy targets (they try to land their airship in the village, only to discover it's a lava field).

Also, get the DM to agree on which version of spells appearing in both Draconomicon and Spell Compendium are allowed. By rules, Spell Compendium takes precendence, IIRC, but maybe your DM will be flexible. There was some serious (and maybe not entirely inappropriate) nerfing done in the reprintings of said spells.

A personal word: recruit a druid. If the humans are here to colonize and you can make a pitch about preserving natural balance, saving indigenous creatures from exploiting interlopers, then you can probably get some cooperation. Druids are experts in long-term territory control, from plant growth, to control weather, to shambler, not to mention the high level druids tend to run with the kind of creatures that will also be interested in deterring human settlement (though they might not always agree with your methods as a red dragon).

[ShadowFireLance]

heh, TPAM Decided to help with the Martial Aspect, Which in a nutshell, Was about what I was about to finish posting...Nice.

[AzazelSephiroth]

Wait, a hippogriff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hippogriff.htm) wizard? You mean, the usually int 2, non-sentient creature, as a wizard? How??

On another note, I've been making inquires along similiar lines. Maybe the threads I started could help?

"Modernizing" An Evil D&D Society (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263535)

Improving D&D GDP (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263729)

The hippogriff was the product of experimentation (basically and awakened animal that worked on a magical beast)... was able to re-roll mental stats! Thanks for the links I will def check them out!

[AzazelSephiroth]

Draconic...Empire....
*Everyone else takes off because they know a long post is about to be done*
Alright, Me needs some basics, First, You have Leadership 70+ Correct? How, Is that combined, Or You by yourself?
2nd: Do you have any Levels other then Red Dragon?
3rd: Draconomicon, The Best book for Dragons, Ever.
4th: Mind Flayer, Get him to take Some Psionic Classes, Or Your Wizard to Start working on getting a Genesis Spell, Then Have your Amazing Valcano Lair Be a Portal to said Demiplane, Which is entirely unhostpitable, Except to you.
5: Gem Mine: Hire/Follower Take rouge for first level, Or Expert, For The Skill points, And Take Professsion: Miner and start mining out the GP, Use said Gp for Making Castles, And buying Mercs.
6th: Use said followers to be mates, and start your own Army of Half-Dragons.
7th: Try to hunt down some Other Dragons in the world, And offer them Gp/Hoard Increasement if they assist you.
8th: Look up Dragon Skull totems, (Dragonlance, Dragons Of Kyrnn or Age of Mortals) And start becoming Awesome.
9th: Get the Favor of Tiamat on your side, Having a Goddess that likes you is always great.
10th: Breath weapon feats, max yours out, You CANNOT ignore the Power of them.
11th: At this point, you are such a Badass Dragon, No one would dare fight you, eat some Annoying Wizards.
12: Become a Great Wyrm, Be awesome.

That is all for now.
:smallcool:

Wow thanks for the great list!
First off sorry for my poor explanation, I have 70+ followers but only a 24 ish leadership score (away from my sheet at the moment). No one else has leadership at the moment, but some may take it... however I am planning on being the only "ruler"
Genesis may be a bit off for us as no caster will be able to attain 9th level spells for a while... we are ECL 10-11 now. And the highest caster is the Hippogriff wiz 7 or 8 I believe. But I will guaranteed have it cast as soon as possible!
My cohort is a Midgard dwarf artificer level 1... I am hoping to abuse... I mean exploit... I mean responsible use his ability to create any magic ring, arms/armor, or wondrous item to great benefit! Any really clever items he can make that could be very useful for our island nation?
Thanks again for the suggestions I will need to check out the Dragonlance books, I hadn't thought of them... we never use Dragonlance material normally... even though it is technically allowed.:smallsmile:

[AzazelSephiroth]

Well, as a creature with already formidable powers, a good move would be to add to your credibility by acting to defend the common interests of the islanders. Luckily, an island is one of the easiest territories to defend (barring armies of greater teleport enabled enemies, which is a harder nut to crack).

The are eye of the windstorm/x line of items from DMG, I believe. Early on recruit some spellcasters who can create bad conditions on the high seas. Have your allies craft items that will be good for wreaking ships, recruit aquatic monster allies, etc. Basically, make a naval invasion a suicide mission. This shouldn't be too hard, since between summoning/binding water elementals and befriending dragon turtles, kraken, sea serpents, etc, there are lots of hazards to put in the water. Boats are truly quite fragile (a good series of warp wood spells will do-in most any vessel). Check out Stormwrack supplement if it's available, or just to help with brainstorming for island defenses.

Once you have defended the seas, you force your opponents into the air. Since you are a dragon, and a number of the other party members have flight ability, this is good. The air is not the natural place for humans, and they will be relying heavily on magic. Enter the dispel magic spells and their ilk. Dispelling screen and dispelling breath (both Spell Compendium) are excellent, and if you can manage the bigger anti-magic/rod of negation/mordenkainen's disjunction guns, the more the merrier. Finally, aerial swarms and visibility control are even more dangerous to enemies that are navigating enemy terrain; use invisibility or hallucinatory terrain/mirage arcana to hide mountains, villages, or create decoy targets (they try to land their airship in the village, only to discover it's a lava field).

Also, get the DM to agree on which version of spells appearing in both Draconomicon and Spell Compendium are allowed. By rules, Spell Compendium takes precendence, IIRC, but maybe your DM will be flexible. There was some serious (and maybe not entirely inappropriate) nerfing done in the reprintings of said spells.

A personal word: recruit a druid. If the humans are here to colonize and you can make a pitch about preserving natural balance, saving indigenous creatures from exploiting interlopers, then you can probably get some cooperation. Druids are experts in long-term territory control, from plant growth, to control weather, to shambler, not to mention the high level druids tend to run with the kind of creatures that will also be interested in deterring human settlement (though they might not always agree with your methods as a red dragon).

What is the eye of windstorm item that you mentioned? I cannot seem to recall it for some reason, but it sounds awesome!
Thanks for the help!

Keep the suggestions coming everyone!!:smallbiggrin:

[Chilingsworth]

Out of curiosity, is your red dragon the usual chaotic evil alignment, or something different? Also, what are the alignments of (or more importantly, how trustworthy are) your compatriots?

[AzazelSephiroth]

My
Out of curiosity, is your red dragon the usual chaotic evil alignment, or something different? Also, what are the alignments of (or more importantly, how trustworthy are) your compatriots?

I am Lawful Evil currently- due to my desire to rule it may stay that way, although some of actions recently have been pretty nuetral vs lawful... I consider myself the highest law. ;-)
My companions are all trustworthy, except for perhaps the mindflayer... but i intend to keep an eye on him.
I am really hoping to role-play up the overlord and master of the domain aspect to the character. And this means making sure laws are followed and obeyed... mostly.

[ShadowFireLance]

Wow thanks for the great list!
First off sorry for my poor explanation, I have 70+ followers but only a 24 ish leadership score (away from my sheet at the moment). No one else has leadership at the moment, but some may take it... however I am planning on being the only "ruler"
Genesis may be a bit off for us as no caster will be able to attain 9th level spells for a while... we are ECL 10-11 now. And the highest caster is the Hippogriff wiz 7 or 8 I believe. But I will guaranteed have it cast as soon as possible!
My cohort is a Midgard dwarf artificer level 1... I am hoping to abuse... I mean exploit... I mean responsible use his ability to create any magic ring, arms/armor, or wondrous item to great benefit! Any really clever items he can make that could be very useful for our island nation?
Thanks again for the suggestions I will need to check out the Dragonlance books, I hadn't thought of them... we never use Dragonlance material normally... even though it is technically allowed.:smallsmile:

Alright, Lets go nice and even, You are a 10-11, So that theirfore means that Epic Leadership is out, Which Removes the Cap on such things.
25 I shall assume, (I think that is the max) So you have everything that you can without Epic...

1: Take Might makes right as a Feat, It adds your STR Mod to your Leadership, Which I would suspect is quite high.
2: Powers of Fauren (Spelling?) Has a feat near the back, The Name currently escapes me. But it is awesome.
3: Alright, No genesis right now...Get your Dm to allow Landlord, From Stronghold builders guidebook (Awesome book as well).
4: Have the Dwarf start making Custom armor for you, Which Enhances your breath weapon qualaties.
5: Defenses: Nothing can be said here that has not been said.
6: Same for Attacking things.
7: Ah, yes, Hire some not so intellegent Creatures that live near the sand, and place them around your Beach..Instant Defenders.
8: Do your best to get everything on this list done.
9: Profit.
10: Take over the world (True Story!)

[AzazelSephiroth]

Alright, Lets go nice and even, You are a 10-11, So that theirfore means that Epic Leadership is out, Which Removes the Cap on such things.
25 I shall assume, (I think that is the max) So you have everything that you can without Epic...

1: Take Might makes right as a Feat, It adds your STR Mod to your Leadership, Which I would suspect is quite high.
2: Powers of Fauren (Spelling?) Has a feat near the back, The Name currently escapes me. But it is awesome.
3: Alright, No genesis right now...Get your Dm to allow Landlord, From Stronghold builders guidebook (Awesome book as well).
4: Have the Dwarf start making Custom armor for you, Which Enhances your breath weapon qualaties.
5: Defenses: Nothing can be said here that has not been said.
6: Same for Attacking things.
7: Ah, yes, Hire some not so intellegent Creatures that live near the sand, and place them around your Beach..Instant Defenders.
8: Do your best to get everything on this list done.
9: Profit.
10: Take over the world (True Story!)

List looks great, actually my DM has allowed my leadership score to be unlimited in regards to my followers, but not to my cohort... so my cohort shall always be 2 steps behind me as it were and can never be higher than 17th without epic leadership, but I can have as many followers as I can get my leadership score up to! Which book is Might makes right in do you recall?
And I am now trying to get a permanent storm around our island or at least the valley we occupy... any items or magic that could do such at our level?

Thanks so much for the help! Everyone!!:smallsmile:

[ShadowFireLance]

List looks great, actually my DM has allowed my leadership score to be unlimited in regards to my followers, but not to my cohort... so my cohort shall always be 2 steps behind me as it were and can never be higher than 17th without epic leadership, but I can have as many followers as I can get my leadership score up to! Which book is Might makes right in do you recall?
And I am now trying to get a permanent storm around our island or at least the valley we occupy... any items or magic that could do such at our level?

Thanks so much for the help! Everyone!!:smallsmile:


Huh..Well, Then What formula has he made for the followers past that? I kinda want to see that..

Might Makes right is in Races of Fauren Or..http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-faerun--23/might-makes-right--1942/ Here.

Magic Items...Not exactly Sure on that...Perhaps ask for a Custom Spell? I think Stormwrack might be the place to go...

[Phelix-Mu]

Orb of Storms: This glass sphere is 8 inches
in diameter. The possessor can call forth all
manner of weather, even supernaturally destructive
storms. Once per day she can call upon the
orb to use a control weather spell, Once per
month, she can conjure a storm of vengeance. The
possessor of the orb is continually protected by an
endure elementseffect.
Strong varied; CL 18th; Craft Wondrous
Item, control weather, endure elements, storm of
vengeance; Price 48,000 gp;Weight 6 lb.

So that is the DMG item, but not the one I was thinking of. It seems to me that it may have been a 3.0 item.

Ah, Stronghold Builder's Guidebook p84:

Tornado’s Eye: This large (6-foot-wide) crystal orb
maintains tornado-force winds (see the DUNGEON
MASTER’s Guide) around the outside your stronghold at
all times. See the description of the hurricane’s eye for
how this works.
If you join this item with a hurricane’s eye or a windstorm’s
eye, they can each only function at the level of
the weakest item.
Caster Level: 18th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item,
control winds; Market Price: 90,000 gp.

Might need to confer with DM about pricing, since that went through the overhaul in 3.5 update. Maybe this was reprinted in MIC, but most of the new stuff in Stronghold Builder's Guidebook was not. It is, as noted above, possibly the best source of AWESOME ideas for planning a fortress/headquarters/lair/etc. There were also some lair traps and enchants in Draconomicon, methinks, which your dragon may find personally useful.

[AzazelSephiroth]

Thanks Everyone!
I am not sure if I can wrangle the money for the Stronghold builder`s guidebook... I think funds will be very tight as our DM is trying to hold back the Monstrous abilities by limiting Wealth. But I will do my best to build what I can!:smallwink:
Dragonskull totems are super awesome! But also seem to be very difficult to build, I wonder how long it would take to hunt down and slay 1 of every dragon type!?

[rweird]

Some more advice, keep tabs on your foe, I know that you don't have scrying, that should be a priority, knowing what your foes are doing is important, also, UNDERWATER. Find some sort of monster that swims, have it smash holes in the bottoms of all the boats (water elementals can be good because they also have a way to capsize things besides punching them, getting a scroll of greater planar binding to bind a huge one might be worth it, just because it can wreck boats of under 80 ft. in length).

Hunting Dragons: Depends on the dragons age, young ones, maybe, though you'll have to worry about the parents, and for hunting good dragons, once word gets out your doing this (and it will get out unless you get good defenses against divination), they'll probably join together and form a dragon strike force to kill you, whether it will be appropriately CRed depends on the DM. My advice is send out a feeler to see, talk to your DM, though don't expect to be able to do that before the invasion unless your party gets teleport, or something greatly delays the invasion, or the DM throws out a hook about dragons gathering.

A few words about skull totems: This will unbalance the game, if you are a great wyrm (or beyond) with 41 HD and 19th level casting with cleric and wizard spells, while they are 10th level characters with monster classes, this may unbalance the game and they won't find it fun, don't do it, or after this, retire the character and make a new one. It is a game, be careful before doing something that might ruin friendships like this.

[AzazelSephiroth]

Some more advice, keep tabs on your foe, I know that you don't have scrying, that should be a priority, knowing what your foes are doing is important, also, UNDERWATER. Find some sort of monster that swims, have it smash holes in the bottoms of all the boats (water elementals can be good because they also have a way to capsize things besides punching them, getting a scroll of greater planar binding to bind a huge one might be worth it, just because it can wreck boats of under 80 ft. in length).

Hunting Dragons: Depends on the dragons age, young ones, maybe, though you'll have to worry about the parents, and for hunting good dragons, once word gets out your doing this (and it will get out unless you get good defenses against divination), they'll probably join together and form a dragon strike force to kill you, whether it will be appropriately CRed depends on the DM. My advice is send out a feeler to see, talk to your DM, though don't expect to be able to do that before the invasion unless your party gets teleport, or something greatly delays the invasion, or the DM throws out a hook about dragons gathering.

A few words about skull totems: This will unbalance the game, if you are a great wyrm (or beyond) with 41 HD and 19th level casting with cleric and wizard spells, while they are 10th level characters with monster classes, this may unbalance the game and they won't find it fun, don't do it, or after this, retire the character and make a new one. It is a game, be careful before doing something that might ruin friendships like this.

Thanks for the extra advice:smallsmile:
I will definitely have to work on gaining some powerful aquatic allies! We haven`t quite aquired the entire island yet, but hopefully soon after some new treaties and another battle with humans!
I agree that the Skull totems may be a bit much for the group, perhaps a weak one that will allow control and scrying of our immediate surrounding area... or perhaps one that does not increase my Dragon`s age category but gives the scrying and area manipulation...hmmm

[rweird]

Yes, talk to your DM about a quest of some sort, also, look for plot hooks, their might be something like this out their already that you haven't found yet. Also, tell us once this is over, we'd love to know how it turned out.

[ShadowFireLance]

We would!

Oh yeah, Try to request:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13508650&postcount=930

That..hehe, Kraken Dragons, And then take the ACF from RotD Which Substitues Clerical Ability to command undead for Dragon commanding.

[Gavinfoxx]

You want to be a spellcaster. Seriously. One of the spellcasting dragons, like Steel, Hex, Tome, etc. with large caster level and casting ability for CR, is ideal. Red Dragon... is not, really.

Also, read one of my handbooks:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aG4P3dU6WP3pq8mW9l1qztFeNfqQHyI22oJe09i8KWw/edit

And a non-mine handbook on leadership:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3065.0