Asmodeus getting it on...

[Qintopon]

What would happen if Asmodeus got it on with a human? Would that person be capable of representing him in anyway on the material plane? Would that woman be a basically a slave or a queen of sorts? Would she remain a human? Then what would happen to her children and children's children?

[Amnestic]

I'm sure there's some joke about Asmodeus' Ruby Rod in there somewhere.

...that said, I don't think there's ever been any indepth explanation as to what mating habits (or lack thereof) Asmodeus has. Which is probably for the best. Is this for an actual game or just a thought exercise?

[INoKnowNames]

nb4 reference to BoEF, BoUCK, N, and etc.

Is this really a 3.5 question, or more a roleplaying question in general? I'm not sure there are really mechanics for this sort of thing...

[Qintopon]

It's for real game play, and role-play. But Asmodeus's Ruby Rod of Horseplay +10 is for fun only. He uses other weapons in combat. :smallcool: It can also be a thought exercise for the purposes of my campaign.

[Chilingsworth]

Well, I don't know about Asmodeus, but another archdevil, Mephistolies, I think, was stated in BOVD to have a half-fiend daughter that acted as a court bard for him. Also, Asmodeus does have a daughter, Glyssa stated out in Fiendish Codex 2. (She's a fullblooded fiend, though.)

[Coidzor]

Well, is Asmodeus merely a very powerful Fiend or is he a deity?

Generally having relations with either does not confer a template or other transformation upon a mortal human.

As for the exact circumstances, well, that's hard to say for many reasons, not the least of which because it's hard to say what Asmodeus is and what his true motivations are. But, the DM's got the last call on that anyway.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

What would happen if Asmodeus got it on with a human? Would that person be capable of representing him in anyway on the material plane? Would that woman be a basically a slave or a queen of sorts? Would she remain a human? Then what would happen to her children and children's children?

Considering that, per Planescape, Asmodeus is not his avatar (just some humanoid devil with bat wings, horns, the whole kit-n-kaboodle) but is actually a miles-long bleeding hulk lying at the bottom of the Nine Hells, "getting it on" is not really something he's capable of doing. :smallwink: So any "offspring" of his like Glasya would have to be artificially created (and so would fulfill whatever purpose he gave it, really), adopted (and so would have their existing capabilities and clout), or would have to be the offspring of his avatar (in which case who the Hells knows).

[Phelix-Mu]

Um, I remember some stuff/fluff from 2nd that the mortal mother of a half-fiend often is killed in child birth. This would be bad for Asmodeus, assuming he actually "cared" (or w/e passes for such in the Nine Hells) for the mortal woman. I used this rule for role play gold in a recent campaign.

I also believe that a being as powerful as Asmodeus could carefully gauge just how much infernal blood was passed onto his descendents. Sometimes being a half-fiend is fun, other times it just sucks (mommy is a human wife of high priest of Pelor...step-daddy might not approve of Baby Brimstone).

By that note, Asmodeus, super genius and planner extraordinaire, would likely never have unplanned offspring. BoEF had some guidelines on outsiders and their magical fertility, which I found to be instructive. These would probably be even more applicable to Asmodeus, quasi-divine and such.

Hurrah for Rosemary's Baby concept. Sounds like it could be fun.

EDIT: Ah, the question focused on Rosemary, not the baby. Well, for sure, she/he(? :smalltongue:) would be targeted by other devils for elimination. Everyone in the Nine Hells covets the favor of their superiors, and Asmodeus is the Superior par Excellence. Jealousy would motivate many myriad assassinations, and Asmodeus would probably need to take steps to disguise/hide/protect said paramour from such attacks. Again, assuming he gave a hoot.

[Coidzor]

I also believe that a being as powerful as Asmodeus could carefully gauge just how much infernal blood was passed onto his descendents. Sometimes being a half-fiend is fun, other times it just sucks (mommy is a human wife of high priest of Pelor...step-daddy might not approve of Baby Brimstone).

On the other hand, The Burning Hate would probably be quite keen to get his hands on such an offspring.

After removing the booby-traps of course. Well, the obvious ones anyway.

[Iamyourking]

We already know what the end-result of a mating between Asmodeus and a mortal is; namely Lixer. Unfortunately, he's already had all his mortal blood burned out; but from a mechanical standpoint it shouldn't be any different from any other Marquis Half-Fiend (Aside from maybe having Divine Ranks, since both of Asmodeus' kids do so).

[ShadowFireLance]

Fairly Odd thing to ask...
Considering something Just happened like that...:smalleek:

Long Story, Slightly Squicky:
Alright, So one of my players was a LE High Priestess of Asmodeas, And her lifelong goal was to get his attention, And by a two year long game (1-30 lvl) She finally got him, By using a Epic Spell, Conjured him, And basically **** him (I know, Being the Lord of the Nine Hells, Should have done something, But You know, I like plot...) So Then After it happened, She Carried the baby for some time, Then finally had him, Which was how I introduced a new player..Yeah, Uh huh.
Turns out, SOMEONE Messed the Spell.
It was Demogorgon.
So the thing that came out was a two headed Screaming Monster that attacked her...
The Guy built him with the Elder Fiend Template, Which I gave him DvR 0, Which is what i would suspect, From the equivelent of Asmodeas, So She got what she wanted, He noticed her, And Punished her, By Removing her Powers...(Sick Dm I know) But a Major Clash Between Demogorgon and Asmodas Avatar happened right there, With her protecting the thing that was still trying to kill her, And then the Party arrived, And managed to use the Wizard and non evil Cleric to banish them back...
She ended up Re-Training as a Cleric of Demogorgon.
That was a Awesome Game.
Elder Fiend is from Blackdyrge Templates.

So, I think that a Powerful/Really powerful Advanced Version of Half-Fiend would work.

[Pokonic]

I would think that many of the upper echalons of hell give out there....personal time to worshipers who summon them for exactly that reason, but rarely give a crap about the resulting offspring unless they send daddy/mommy a painted hand turkey with real Solar feathers decorating it or something.


Comady aside, most of the rulers on the 9 probably have sired a small nations worth of half-mortal offspring over there history, but summoning Asmodeus for a quicky is something only a very, very brave cultist would do. Frankly, if he does tap himself a piece of mortal ass, he would have planned the whole thing to the point that by the time the local witch-queen wishes to see him, it's a forgon conclusion what will happen.


Also of note: if someone is willing to have a one-night stand with the Lord of the Hells himself, chances are He knows where there going to end up if they die at childbirth.

[Iamyourking]

That's explicitly how Lixer's conception worked. Unfortunately, I don't have the text on hand so I can't give any more details.

[INoKnowNames]

Not to be rude, but how did I -know- that ShadowFireLance would make an appearance here soon enough? :smalltongue:

[ShadowFireLance]

...Not cool....
Now really, i think the Tarrasque thing was funny!
(Others apparantly dont understand the fact that Rule 34 means everything...)

[INoKnowNames]

I wasn't even counting on that. Just general history of some of the other things you've been behind.

[ShadowFireLance]

...What...is that supposed to mean?
Now, Really, The Dragon was my area of Expertise, I am a CERTIFIED Dragon Expert.
:smallcool:

[INoKnowNames]

...What...is that supposed to mean?
Now, Really, The Dragon was my area of Expertise, I am a CERTIFIED Dragon Expert.
:smallcool:

And everything that implies, I presume.

[ShadowFireLance]

Not...Helping.....:smallannoyed:
It Only means that I KNOW about 'it' So as such, I only learned what was needed, nothing more.
Anywho, Senseless Thread Derailment is unhelpful, and Wasteful, So Stopping now, If you want, We can continue this random banter in PM's

[INoKnowNames]

Heh, I was just messing with ya anyways, friend. :smallbiggrin:

You guys got me curious about the Nine Hells. Which books hold all of this sort of information, about Asmodeus and such? I'm looking to see how well my Will Saves hold up.

[ShadowFireLance]

Fiendish Codex 2, And I hear a lot about 'Planescape' books, So you might want to hunt for those.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The definitive read for the nine hells (in 3.5 anyway) is Fiendish Codex 2: Tyrants of the Nine Hells. A solid read in my opinion.

On topic: The official stats for Asmodeous (found in BoVD*) don't have him with divine rank, though it's suggested that you might give any of the archduke's of hell or princes of the abyss divine rank 0. I really don't see any reason that a child of Asmodeous would be any different from any other half-fiend regardless of the fact that Asmodeous is the ultimate example of what all devils aspire to be. He's as close to being a god as you can get, without actually crossing the threshold, but he's still just a fiend.

Personally, I'd be much more interested in how the mortal woman managed to garner his attention for whatever deep intricate plan he has and what that plan is.


*There's a stat-block for Asmodeous in FC2 as well, but that's called out as "probably" being only an avatar, not the real deal.

[ShadowFireLance]

Once more, Kelb demonstrates his Knowledge of D&D, Well done.

(Siggable)

[Coidzor]

Heh, I was just messing with ya anyways, friend. :smallbiggrin:

You guys got me curious about the Nine Hells. Which books hold all of this sort of information, about Asmodeus and such? I'm looking to see how well my Will Saves hold up.

The Fiend Folio, Planar Handbook, Manual of the Planes, and the Fiendish Codex II would be the main 3.X sources that I can recall. I think there's also some stuff just up on the WOTC site in the archives.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

The definitive read for the nine hells (in 3.5 anyway) is Fiendish Codex 2: Tyrants of the Nine Hells. A solid read in my opinion.

The Planescape books that cover the Nine Hells are Faces of Evil: The Fiends, Hellbound: The Blood War, Planes of Law, and Guide to Hell, and there's also the adventure The Fires of Dis and the novel trilogy Blood Hostages/Abyssal Warrior/Planar Powers that are set in Baator.

FC2 is nice, but it's Greyhawk-specific so it doesn't quite match all the Planescape stuff (and outright retcons a bunch of it), and of course WotC writing isn't amazing.


On topic: The official stats for Asmodeous (found in BoVD*) don't have him with divine rank, though it's suggested that you might give any of the archduke's of hell or princes of the abyss divine rank 0.
[...]
*There's a stat-block for Asmodeous in FC2 as well, but that's called out as "probably" being only an avatar, not the real deal.

Standard PairO'Dice Lost Rant #84:

*deep breath*

If you're going to use any Powers (archdevils, demon princes, etc.) in a game, do not use the BoVD stats, do not use the FC stats, WotC cannot write high-level stats to save their lives, the statted versions are pushovers even to unoptimized low-epic parties and beatable by well-prepared high-level parties, a creature who has been around since the beginning of the multiverse should have more and better powers than those stat blocks allow, you should always custom-build iconic "boss monsters" like that to be an appropriate challenge to your party, Big A and Demogorgon and others should be on a par with at least intermediate deities by their fluff even if you don't subscribe to the creators-of-the-multiverse theory, side effects of using the published stats include nausea disbelief and ennui, contact a cleric if you experience a boss fight lasting more than 4 hours.

*exhale*

</rant>

[Kelb_Panthera]

The Planescape books that cover the Nine Hells are Faces of Evil: The Fiends, Hellbound: The Blood War, Planes of Law, and Guide to Hell, and there's also the adventure The Fires of Dis and the novel trilogy Blood Hostages/Abyssal Warrior/Planar Powers that are set in Baator.

FC2 is nice, but it's Greyhawk-specific so it doesn't quite match all the Planescape stuff (and outright retcons a bunch of it), and of course WotC writing isn't amazing.



Standard PairO'Dice Lost Rant #84:

*deep breath*

If you're going to use any Powers (archdevils, demon princes, etc.) in a game, do not use the BoVD stats, do not use the FC stats, WotC cannot write high-level stats to save their lives, the statted versions are pushovers even to unoptimized low-epic parties and beatable by well-prepared high-level parties, a creature who has been around since the beginning of the multiverse should have more and better powers than those stat blocks allow, you should always custom-build iconic "boss monsters" like that to be an appropriate challenge to your party, Big A and Demogorgon and others should be on a par with at least intermediate deities by their fluff even if you don't subscribe to the creators-of-the-multiverse theory, side effects of using the published stats include nausea disbelief and ennui, contact a cleric if you experience a boss fight lasting more than 4 hours.

*exhale*

</rant>

I certainly don't disagree with your point in that rant. However, just because they suck doesn't change the fact they're the "official" stats. That air of "officialness" is important to some people, and it's the only mutual reference point we all have for this sort of discussion.

On the topic of your rant, actually doing as the book suggests and giving them divine rank 0 (as defined by deities and demigods) goes a heck of a long way toward making them closer to what they should be. As does customizing the spell load-out that the ones with inherent casting (most of them) have.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I certainly don't disagree with your point in that rant. However, just because they suck doesn't change the fact they're the "official" stats. That air of "officialness" is important to some people, and it's the only mutual reference point we all have for this sort of discussion.

I realize. I just make sure to bring that up whenever people mention the official "Asmodeus" or "Demogorgon" or the rest, because friends don't let friends run Powers based on BoVD/FC stats. :smallwink:

[Rubik]

On the other hand, The Burning Hate would probably be quite keen to get his hands on such an offspring.

After removing the booby-traps of course. Well, the obvious ones anyway.A breast-feeding joke? Really?

[Socratov]

A breast-feeding joke? Really?

ignore it. save your brain for less scarring stuff :smallwink:

[Alleran]

If you're going to use any Powers (archdevils, demon princes, etc.) in a game, do not use the BoVD stats, do not use the FC stats, WotC cannot write high-level stats to save their lives, the statted versions are pushovers even to unoptimized low-epic parties and beatable by well-prepared high-level parties...
One option is to use the statblocks given in Dungeon magazine. Off the top of my head, most of the Demon Lords were given statblocks there that range from CR 28 through to 33.

[hamishspence]

I certainly don't disagree with your point in that rant. However, just because they suck doesn't change the fact they're the "official" stats. That air of "officialness" is important to some people, and it's the only mutual reference point we all have for this sort of discussion.

On the topic of your rant, actually doing as the book suggests and giving them divine rank 0 (as defined by deities and demigods) goes a heck of a long way toward making them closer to what they should be. As does customizing the spell load-out that the ones with inherent casting (most of them) have.

Dragon Magazine's Demonomicon articles provide 3.5 versions of the BoVD stats, usually with a few extra abilities. Orcus appears in Dungeon rather than Dragon- and has a toned down version of his Last Word special ability.

[Coidzor]

A breast-feeding joke? Really?

Well, that took a macabre turn.

Then again, I suppose such is appropriate.

[Arcanist]

[Kelb's amazing comment on FCII and Asmodeus]


[Dice's amazing comment on the Nine Hells and how Planescape did it so much better]

To add a 3rd (and unofficial) mix into the punch, I generally see more people using Dicefreak's Gates of Hell for the stats of the Devil's since they scale ever so better into Epic and even if you don't go into Epic, it can certainly be a better tool for telling your players "We're NOT using the BoVD or the FCII for stats..."

[MasterFu]

All I'll say is I hope she read the pre-nup very carefully.

[Spuddles]

I have a feeling that when the Lord of Hell is chasin mortal tail, he is 't plannin on putting a ring on it.


The definitive read for the nine hells (in 3.5 anyway) is Fiendish Codex 2: Tyrants of the Nine Hells. A solid read in my opinion.

On topic: The official stats for Asmodeous (found in BoVD*) don't have him with divine rank, though it's suggested that you might give any of the archduke's of hell or princes of the abyss divine rank 0. I really don't see any reason that a child of Asmodeous would be any different from any other half-fiend regardless of the fact that Asmodeous is the penultimate example of what all devils aspire to be. He's as close to being a god as you can get, without actually crossing the threshold, but he's still just a fiend.

Personally, I'd be much more interested in how the mortal woman managed to garner his attention for whatever deep intricate plan he has and what that plan is.


*There's a stat-block for Asmodeous in FC2 as well, but that's called out as "probably" being only an avatar, not the real deal.

If Asmodeus is the penultimate fiend, then who's the ultimate devil?


I certainly don't disagree with your point in that rant. However, just because they suck doesn't change the fact they're the "official" stats. That air of "officialness" is important to some people, and it's the only mutual reference point we all have for this sort of discussion.

On the topic of your rant, actually doing as the book suggests and giving them divine rank 0 (as defined by deities and demigods) goes a heck of a long way toward making them closer to what they should be. As does customizing the spell load-out that the ones with inherent casting (most of them) have.

Isn't there something that says the lords of hell get a divine rank while active on their layer? Or maybe it's just that they can grant spells to worshippers....

[Kelb_Panthera]

I have a feeling that when the Lord of Hell is chasin mortal tail, he is 't plannin on putting a ring on it. and even if he was, no mortal could successfully spot the loopholes he's woven into the pre-nup' anyway. All the gods of law combined didn't notice the loops in the pact primeval that let devils tempt mortals to corruption. Asmodeous is -the- contract lawyer to beat in the D&D multiverse.




If Asmodeus is the ultimate fiend, then who's the ultimate devil? I don't believe I ever said he was the ultimate fiend. In any case that wouldn't be mutually exclusive with the "ultimate devil" title anway. Asmodeous is the original devil and their undisputed exemplar.




Isn't there something that says the lords of hell get a divine rank while active on their layer? Or maybe it's just that they can grant spells to worshippers....

There's a suggestion in BoVD that the rulers of hell and the abyss may warrant divine rank 0, but it's left strictly to DM's discretion and is -not- part of their listed stats or definitively ruled to be the case in any particular location. They explicitly cannot grant spells unless they are given divine rank by the DM. Even then, I think it has to be higher than rank 0.

[Spuddles]

I was almost positive you could worship archfiends for cleric spells.

By the way, penultimate basically means second to last, or next to the final. Ultimate means final- ultimate literally means ultimate.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You can worship fiends and gain cleric spells from the idea that they're worthy of worship. In which case, you choose the domains associated with that fiend in-spite of the fact you're not getting spells from the fiend itself.

Also, it seems I've been using "penultimate" wrong for years now. How embarrasing. :smallredface:

Edit: previous misuses of penultimate now read ultimate.

[Socratov]

anyway, why whenever I read the title of this thread do I need to think of the song f**k her gently by Teancious D?

(especially the video)