Scouting

[ahenobarbi]

I was thinking a bit and I think my party really needs to do some scouting. I'm not sure how we could do it effectively. We are about level 8. Players/PCs are:
- Me, playing NG Tiefling Focused Conjurer 3/ Master Specialist 4.
- Player eager to do something useful, playing LN Human Aristocrat 1/ Wizard 7.
- Player who will take advice but wants character to be as little book keeping as possible, playing half orc Fighter/Barbarian.
- Player who will not take advice, playing human ranger/rogue (quite useless).

I thought I could use a trained animal, chain of eyes (to actually get intel) and message (to direct the trained animal). Would that work? Maybe you could suggest some other methods?

[Keltaris]

Well, the Ranger/Rogue could be a nice scout, but if he's not up for it (don't know why he wouldn't but...) the Wizard could grab a better familiar with Improved Familiar, Celestial Familiar and such, to get one that could scout.

Coure Eladrin would be perfect, but has an alignment restriction.

[Darrin]

Maybe you could suggest some other methods?

Figurine of Wondrous Power: Serpentine Owl (DMG p. 257, 9100 GP). The tiny-sized version has Listen +14, Move Silently +17, Spot +6, and it can communicate everything it sees and hears telepathically. This makes it one heck of a scout or spy. Biggest downside (other than being pretty fragile) is it can only be used 1/day, up to 8 hours.

Figurine of Wondrous Power: Blue Quartz Eagle (Races of Faerun p. 173, 5400 GP). Similar to the Serpentine Owl, the eagle makes an ideal scout, with an amazing +19 spot check, but unlike the owl can only passively send visual information, and only if the owner spends a standard action to concentrate. The biggest advantage may be the usage: it can be used up to 24 hours per tenday, but the duration need not be continuous, so you can switch into and back out of statuette form whenever you need it.

[ahenobarbi]

Well, the Ranger/Rogue could be a nice scout, but if he's not up for it (don't know why he wouldn't but...)

Yeah I hoped Ranger/Rogue would be a scout but the character is kinda useless. I probably could talk the player into scouting but we would wind up with a dead scout.

Rant about the character

The character apparently specializes in arguing anyone else ideas until they give up (because you know, we want to play not argue him) and friendly fire.

I have no idea what he did with skill ranks. He should have many skill points (minimum Int he could have is 10) but:
- He has lousy modifiers
- He can't speak many languages
- He can't use many trained-only skills.
Maybe he decided to get as few ranks in as many skills as possible, I don't know.

Hmm maybe I should talk the character into scouting if he got killed in a way that wouldn't allow Raise Dead replacement character might be more effective :nale:



the Wizard could grab a better familiar with Improved Familiar, Celestial Familiar and such, to get one that could scout.

Coure Eladrin would be perfect, but has an alignment restriction.

Isn't sending familiar to scout risky? If the familiar dies you loose a lot of XP and familiars are even squishier than wizards.


Figurine of Wondrous Power: Serpentine Owl (DMG p. 257, 9100 GP). The tiny-sized version has Listen +14, Move Silently +17, Spot +6, and it can communicate everything it sees and hears telepathically. This makes it one heck of a scout or spy. Biggest downside (other than being pretty fragile) is it can only be used 1/day, up to 8 hours.

Figurine of Wondrous Power: Blue Quartz Eagle (Races of Faerun p. 173, 5400 GP). Similar to the Serpentine Owl, the eagle makes an ideal scout, with an amazing +19 spot check, but unlike the owl can only passively send visual information, and only if the owner spends a standard action to concentrate. The biggest advantage may be the usage: it can be used up to 24 hours per tenday, but the duration need not be continuous, so you can switch into and back out of statuette form whenever you need it.

Wow. Thanks, those are some awesome scouts. With a little Darkvision those may be everything we need.

[BowStreetRunner]

The Wizard should be able to use summoning spells to summon a creature that can do some scouting as well. It's just a matter of choosing a creature that is decent at scouting and with which you can communicate well enough.

[eggs]

The Wizard should be able to use summoning spells to summon a creature that can do some scouting as well. It's just a matter of choosing a creature that is decent at scouting and with which you can communicate well enough.
I was going to say something along these lines.

Scouting is one of the areas that a Planar Binding spell probably isn't too cheesy for a game, but where it works very well - you can grab a Galeb Duhr, earth elemental, shadow elemental or thoqqua, use their movement or sensory advantages to get the scoop on what's coming up, and take action accordingly. If nobody else is scouting, you don't need to worry about stepping on toes.

The Summon Elemental Reserve feat can also be useful for spamming earth glide summons without using all your spell slots.

[Gavinfoxx]

Maybe the Scouting handbook might be useful?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11034.0

[nedz]

Send the Ranger/Rogue scouting — it's his job.

If he dies: well he should have made a better scout.

I mean it's not hard — max out 5 skills — it's why the class(es) get those skill points anyway.

[Person_Man]

Other options to consider:

Binder 3 (or Binder 1 with the Improved Binder Feat) can bind the Malphas vestige. It gives you Poison Use, at will Invisibility once every 5 rounds (caster level equal to your Binder level), 1d6 + 1d6*(Binder Level/4) Sudden Strike, and an infinitely replaceable raven whose eyes you can see through.

Incarnate 2 gets the Necrocarnate Circlet soulmeld. When bound to your Crown chakra, you can turn any dead creature into a Necrocarnum Zombie. You can do this as often as you like, though you're limited to one zombie at a time, and it's hit dice are limited by your meldshaper level. You also have the option of using the Soulspark Familiar soulmeld, which is less useful for a variety of reasons, but it's available at level 1, doesn't require a chakra bind, grants you Alertness, and has the benefit of Fast Healing. (Thus for the low cost of a +1 Vampiric weapon or 2 feats for the Martial Spirit stance, you basically get infinite out of combat healing for your entire party). You can also access both of these options with Feats.

Druid or Wildshape Ranger can Wildshape into a variety of animals with massive Hide and Move Silently bonuses. There are also a variety of PrC that offer access to Small/Tiny/Fine creature options.

Speaking of Size, the Compression psionic power gives you up to 2 size reductions, which means +4 Dex and +8 Hide. It's a first level power for Psychic Rogue or Psychic Warrior (or War Mind, which has access to Psychic Warrior powers).

[Lord Il Palazzo]

My party's wizard took Improved Familiar to gain a pseudodragon. It has blindsense, +20 to hide and can communicate whatever it sees telepathically.

Our beguiler took Shadow Conjuration via advanced learning and has on at least one occasion Shadow Conjured a small earth elemental to earth glide through stone floors and walls to scout or open doors that are barred from the other side. Either of your party's wizards could do the same with Summon Monster III, though the duration's a little short. (Extend spell, maybe?) The beguiler's one level of mindbender to communicate telepathically with the elemental didn't hurt.

If the Ranger is completely unwilling to do the kind of thing his character should exist for, someone else (with DM approval) could take leadership to gain a cohort who's good for scouting.

[ahenobarbi]

Send the Ranger/Rogue scouting — it's his job.

If he dies: well he should have made a better scout.

I mean it's not hard — max out 5 skills — it's why the class(es) get those skill points anyway.

I'm tempted to do just that. However I'm worried about out of character problems this may cause.


Other options to consider:

Thanks. I don't think I can use those right now but it'll remember options for future builds :)


... Familiar method looks risky. Summons duration is quite short (it may be viable at higher levels).


If the Ranger is completely unwilling to do the kind of thing his character should exist for, someone else (with DM approval) could take leadership to gain a cohort who's good for scouting.

Hmm I have a spare feat. DM ruled that if cohort adventures with us it takes share of XP. But if I used it only for scouting it wouldn't be much. But this would definitely cause problems with Ranger/Rogue player.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Familiar method looks risky. Summons duration is quite short (it may be viable at higher levels).It's never been a problem for my players. The +20 to hide goes a long way toward this and if you're really concerned, you could put a couple defensive buffs on the little guy before he goes scouting.
If you can justify gaining an evil familiar, an imp could work even better as a scout since it has at will invisibility as a spell-like ability plus damage reduction (5/good or silver) and fast healing 2 in case it does get into a scrape.

Hmm I have a spare feat. DM ruled that if cohort adventures with us it takes share of XP. But if I used it only for scouting it wouldn't be much. But this would definitely cause problems with Ranger/Rogue player.Why? It sounds like the scout cohort would be taking a job the ranger/rogue didn't want. Just build the cohort differently enough that he doesn't step on the toes of whatever it is the ranger/rogue does want to do and I don't see how it would be a problem.

[ahenobarbi]

It's never been a problem for my players. The +20 to hide goes a long way toward this and if you're really concerned, you could put a couple defensive buffs on the little guy before he goes scouting.
If you can justify gaining an evil familiar, an imp could work even better as a scout since it has at will invisibility as a spell-like ability plus damage reduction (5/good or silver) and fast healing 2 in case it does get into a scrape.

I can suggest this but it's not my familiar so I won't get to decide... hmm I could get familiar with a feat.


Why? It sounds like the scout cohort would be taking a job the ranger/rogue didn't want. Just build the cohort differently enough that he doesn't step on the toes of whatever it is the ranger/rogue does want to do and I don't see how it would be a problem.

It's not like he didn't want the job. He just didn't do it. The player is a bit of nuisance. I guess I should talk to my group what we should do thanks to you guys I can present them with some choices now :smallsmile:

[nedz]

I'm tempted to do just that. However I'm worried about out of character problems this may cause.
...
But this would definitely cause problems with Ranger/Rogue player.

It sounds like you have an OOC problem — for which you require an OOC solution. Maybe we should discuss that, if it will help ? IC solutions are unlikely too.