Torchwood

[bosssmiley]

OK, I've looked and I can't see any reference yet, so here's a thread about the new Dr Who spin-off series that started in the UK last week.

I *so* wanted this to be good, I wanted to see a new "Ultraviolet", or a sci-fi version of "Spooks".
What did we get instead? Poor pacing and minimal internal logic, cardboard characters, atrocious acting from a bunch of Welsh RADA drop-outs, cheap effects and plots ripped off from old "Outer Limits" episodes.

Russell T. Davies should be banned from writing ever again! Bad enough what he did to "Dr Who", but now this! :mad:

Q: What's the difference between Russell Davies and an Atropal?
A: One's a vile bloated carcass hatefully sucking the life out of all around it. The other's a monster in the ELH.

[Captain van der Decken]

I saw it.. I don't think it was that bad.

[beholder]

i havent seen torchwood, but i liked the new dr.who
ive only seen the episodes with the werewolf, anthony stewart head, and spaceship in 17th century france though

[npc4hire]

I'll admit, when I heard the plot to episode 2 I thought my little brother had made it up. I love the fact it was said of the series:

"We can be a bit more visceral, more violent, and more sexual, if we want to. Though bear in mind that it’s very teenage to indulge yourself in blood and gore..."

That's, um, exactly what they're doing. Mind you, I love it even though it's daft. I find it entertaining to watch :) I love Spooks too, even though it's nonsense.

[Archonic Energy]

i want to know how jack got back from the future

[BreathingMeat]

Give it a few weeks to sort itself out. The first couple of Dr Who episodes were pretty slow too, but by the end of Season 1 it was paying off. From the plot summaries on the official sites, it looks like Torchwood will be worth some of the fuss that was made over it, by the end of the series.

[Captain van der Decken]

Hey, archonic, could you shorten your sig please? It's stretching the page.

Agree with ^, it'll might get better.

[Sendal]

I missed the first episode, but I intend to watch the re-run tomorrow. I quite like the new Dr Who, the rediculousness of the story lines is part of the fun. (walking manikins with guns in their hands anyone?)

[Greebo]

Has this, or when will this, air in the USA?

And what did Russel T. Davis do to Dr. Who that was so bad?

[Archonic Energy]

Has this, or when will this, air in the USA?

not yet and probably in about a year.

i love being British...

*sets HDD to record Ep 3...*

[terrant]

Anyone not liking the new Dr.Who really was never going to like Torchwood in any form. I admit it hasn't grabbed me get but I'll give it a chance to develop a bit of back plot. Remember that the new Dr.Who rests on several decades of things that don't have to be explained as most of us already knew them before the series was even shown (Tardis, sonic screwdriver, regeneration, etc, etc).

I know Cardiff well enough to enjoy the Cardiff jokes but I do hope they get out of town soon. But I did have to crease up when in the first episode the quickest route for a speeding police car from one part of Cardiff to another was across the new Severn bridge (just to give the cameraman a good scenic shot).

ps. Referring to a real living person as a "vile bloated carcass" is asking for a kicking, either in court or in a dark alley depending on Mr. Davies' sense of humour or lack of.

[Archonic Energy]

ooo next episode looks good....

[BreathingMeat]

I think it's really sad that people give RTDavies such a hard time for his version of Dr Who. Yeah, it's over-written at times, and its politics may alienate a few of the more right-wing fans, but look: He's put Dr Who back on TV. And now girls like it too. And if you look beyond the farce the scripts are actually quite clever. And, (and I think this point is important enough to bear repeating) NOW YOU CAN WATCH DOCTOR WHO WITH A GIRL.

Also, think how much worse it could have been!

[Greebo]

I think it's really sad that people give RTDavies such a hard time for his version of Dr Who. Yeah, it's over-written at times, and its politics may alienate a few of the more right-wing fans, but look:
I'm a right winger - and I have no idea why you think this might be so...



He's put Dr Who back on TV. And now girls like it too. And if you look beyond the farce the scripts are actually quite clever. And, (and I think this point is important enough to bear repeating) NOW YOU CAN WATCH DOCTOR WHO WITH A GIRL.

Also, think how much worse it could have been!

Yes and YES! My wife can't STAND the old ones (heck after 30 years, they don't stand up too well in my eyes either...) but she loves the new Doctors. I do wish Eccelson lasted more than one season tho..he was ... Fantastic!

[bosssmiley]

Has this, or when will this, air in the USA?

Probably next year. The BBC knows a profitable export when they see it. You still have time to seal the borders! :smallwink:


And what did Russel T. Davis do to Dr. Who that was so bad?

I'm as glad as the next geek to see "Dr Who" back on TV, but you can tell any episode RTDavies has a significant hand in by virtue of it being complete tosh! The Madame Pompadour episode was one of his, as was that dreadful thing with Peter Kay, and the absolute mess that was episode 1 of the last series. I still haven't forgiven him the heavy-handed b*ll*cks of the 'Bad Wolf' non-mystery either. :smallannoyed:

Whedon raised the bar for characterisation in tv scifi, Davies simply isn't reaching that despite all the soapyness he tries to add to "Dr Who". Why not give the various episode co-writers their head, and let him make the contemporary 20-something drama he so obviously wants to write instead. :smallfurious:

[Ian.of.Donald]

Torchwood? Hmm, I don't do feminist theatre...

Seriously:

Whedon raised the bar for characterisation in tv scifi, Davies simply isn't reaching that despite all the soapyness he tries to add to "Dr Who". Why not give the various episode co-writers their head, and let him make the contemporary 20-something drama he so obviously wants to write instead.
Qouted for truth.

[BreathingMeat]

The Madame du Pompadour episode was not written by RTD; it was written by Steven Moffat, writer of The Empty Child, who says of Girl in the Fireplace: "I was just given Madame du Pompador and the possibility of a clockwork man was the extent of my brief" (ref) (http://www.aintitcool.com/?q=node/30451).

I do agree that we could have done without the spoilers for Bad Wolf and Army of Ghosts, and those would appear to be RTD's fault.

[BreathingMeat]

I'm a right winger - and I have no idea why you think this might be so...


The subtext in several of RTD's scripts is very pro-environmentalism and anti-war, which in many countries would align more comfortably with the left wing than the right.

[CaptainSam]

The Madame du Pompadour episode was not written by RTD; it was written by Steven Moffat, writer of The Empty Child, who says of Girl in the Fireplace: "I was just given Madame du Pompador and the possibility of a clockwork man was the extent of my brief" (ref) (http://www.aintitcool.com/?q=node/30451).

I do agree that we could have done without the spoilers for Bad Wolf and Army of Ghosts, and those would appear to be RTD's fault.

He's got you on that one, Bosssmiley. I thought The Girl in the Fireplace was one of the best episodes of the last series. It showed that despite being an alien with two hearts and essentially immortal, the Doctor is also very human.

There's always going to be bits of the show that you either love or hate. You can't please them all, as someone, somewhere said. Love and Monsters was deeply silly and didn't feature the Doctor or Rose much, but rather focussed on the people they leave behind or who they touch in passing. This is an aspect of the new series I really enjoyed. It's not all about the Doctor.

On to Torchwood. As with any new thing, you have to give it a chance. The first episode was slow almost by default. You have a whole raft of characters to introduce, get together and bind into a team.

Episode two, nothing new, really. Not going to post any spoilers, but the plot wasn't anything special. I was just about to give up on the series.

Episode three. Now this is more like it. Once again, no spoilers going to be posted, but this is what the rest of it should be like.

One gripe, I hate the Jackmobile! Specifically the silly flashing lights on it.

[Totally Guy]

I enjoyed the Peter Kay Doctor Who episode up to a certain point...

I am Victor Kennedy, I will coerce you into loyal underlings to my cause for trapping the doctor in an elaborate well planned rigorous scheme. I'm also being evil in a Southern way, my accent, manners and sophistication show I am lawful evil.

Oh, now I'm a big fat moster from Klom and I'm going to gobble you all oop. Yum yum. I don't need lackys or a plan because I can just eat people. I'm now from the North and am now chaotic evil. I'm going to go the fish and chip shop to eat the cashier.

Personally I blame Blue Peter. "We need a generic baddie to eat people, send in your pictures!"

Torchwood so far has been decent. It's like they've let childrens writers have free reign to do whatever they can't normally. I like that. Adults should be able to have their own grown up kids shows and this fits the bill.

[Chappers]

I liked it

[waspsmakejam]

For anyone whinging that Torchwood isn't dark enough, next week's episode "Small Worlds" is by PJ Hammond, the creator of Sapphire and Steel.

Other than being worried that next week Mr Hammond will scar me mentally again, I like Torchwood.

The whole setup at Torchwood Cardiff appears to be daft as a brush. The plots are full of holes, and the technology is used as a substitute for magic. None of this is a problem for me. I'm a Doctor Who fan, this is what I'm used to.

There are number of plus points:

the team are all very nice to look at
especially Captain Jack, who has his RAF frock on again for no reason other it looks pretty
there is a lot of running about and its all very exciting and just zips along
except when the team are eating takeout or down the pub
they have a cool lair type batcave place with shiny lights and stuff
a big black car with shiny lights and stuff
a pet pterodactyl, who I hope is okay next week
they do a lot of kissing


In short, its original slashy shippy stuff on the tele - hooray!

As for the new series of Doctor Who, I love it. I would never have predicted it but I liked RTDs soapy stuff, seeing the effect of being a companion on Rose's loved ones was a great idea. Stephen Moffat's episodes (Girl the Fireplace, The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances) have been my favourites, but its a very old fashioned Doctor Who episode of RTD's (The Long Game) that comes next.

Still, that's the strength of the Doctor Who format - if you don't like a serial/story, the next one will be quite different. The story I like least so far was The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit which was the most sci-fi of the lot and I imagine jolly popular with folks who don't like the sort of epsidoes I like.

I thoroughly enjoyed "Love and Monsters". Partly as a celebration of the adaptablity of the format, and also I felt that RTD poked fun as us sad geeky fans quite affectionately (he's one of us, he's allowed). Also I thought it was a very creative solution to the problem of stretching the budget/filming schedule to cover the Christmas special compared to those awful clips episodes that US sci-fi shows sometimes use.

Of course, nothing can compare to the adventures of my beloved Seventh and Ace ... but its coming very close.

[Were-Sandwich]

Is it just me or are they scattering Sci-Fi references around a bit.

Techie #1: second name Harper. Same as the techie aboard the starship Andromeda Ascendant

Techie #2: Second name Sato, same as Coms office Hoshi Sato, from Star Trek: Enterprise

Coincidence?

[waspsmakejam]

I'm pretty sure that all the homage/references are deliberate, and there just for geek entertainment.

Folks in the office were having a lovely conversation about the whereabouts of Torchwood 4 but made the mistake of consulting me, as resident geek, for an authoratative opinion. I told them I thought it was a Babylon 5 geeky in-joke, and their little faces dropped.

[Were-Sandwich]

ACtually managed to watch an episode last night. It was the cyberwoman one. It was pretty bad. But, next episode looks like a mixed bag

It seems like ther writing technique consists of:

Right guys we have a storyline planned with some vampire type thing, and an invisible monster. But we have to make it mature and adult. I know, lets add a paedophile(!) (At least I assume they were implying he was a paedophile)

[CaptainSam]

ACtually managed to watch an episode last night. It was the cyberwoman one. It was pretty bad. But, next episode looks like a mixed bag

It seems like ther writing technique consists of:

Right guys we have a storyline planned with some vampire type thing, and an invisible monster. But we have to make it mature and adult. I know, lets add a phaedophile(!) (At least I assume they were implying he was a phaedophile)

Sandwich, mate, what was that post about? Okay, the episode was bad-ish. but better than anything thad had gone before.

The writing technique is, I'm pretty sure, much like mine. I have a bunch of cool things, let's lump them together. Oh, and make sure the cyberwoman is wearing high heels! And we can see lots of flesh! And throw a dinosaur in for good measure!

Where I get really confused is the second half of the statement. Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/) describes phaedo (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/phaedo) as:

a philosophical dialogue (4th century b.c.) by Plato, purporting to describe the death of Socrates, dealing with the immortality of the soul, and setting forth the theory of Ideas.

I didn't see any philosophical debate going on. Spoilered for those who don't want to know too much.

I saw a lot of running around in a blind panic, trying to get away from Ianto's deranged, half-cyber, not-quite-finished-yet, should-be-dead girlfriend. And her getting half eaten by the pterodactyl

Were you watching the same episode as me?

[Joez]

I have to say it wasnt all i thought it could be, and i probably but it is good i recon, but i dont think i would enjoy it so much if i didnt live in Cardiff and couldnt scream 'Its a drag club!' in the second episode...

[Were-Sandwich]

Never having had to spell that before, I think it was a pretty good attempt.

[Archonic Energy]

well... that was intresting.

but what did it have to do with Torchwood.

i'm quite sure dicussing this episode is against the board rules...

[Totally Guy]

I know exactly what you are talking about. That was no "childrens writer with free reign" as I said before. I can understand why they might want to leave Sci-fi out of an episode, it's rarely been done, but to replace it with... everything I avoid in the cinemas... No. Not my cup of tea.

[ray53208]

i like the new dr who. ive been watching the good doctor since i was 3, back in '75.

i really havent seen torchwood yet.

[Archonic Energy]

you won't have ... give it a year till it hits the US.

unless you bittorrent it or something

[Were-Sandwich]

Hmmm. Lets see what that episode was about then shall we...

*opens the beeb website*

[CaptainSam]

By the way, I owe you an apology, Were-Sandwich. There was indeed a paedophile in that episode. I hadn't seen either the trailers or the episode at that point.

No vampires, though ;) Monsters, yes. Proper fey, yes! No vampires....

Yet

[waspsmakejam]

I'm really enjoying Torchwood. Its full of pretty people running around with guns chasing monsters, eating junk food, kissing (and stuff) and mostly talking in Welsh accents. And there's Captain Jack, back in his RAF coat because, well, why not?

Next week, looks like we may get some bad ladies (intermittently) in stunning frocks too. Probably not up to Servalan standards. Still, ladies in (and out) of daft but fab outfits can only make things even better.

Or worse, depending on your point of view.

[Were-Sandwich]

I just want to say I found 'Countrycide' completely disgusting. I hope its never shown agian, ever. Stuff like that should at least have a 'nervous disposition' disclaimer on it. I've always been totally freaked out by stuff like that. It was.....disturbing, to say the least.

[Jibar]

I liked it. First Doctor Who show that actually got me creeped out without relying on freaky looky monsters.

[Aidan305]

I just want to say I found 'Countrycide' completely disgusting. I hope its never shown agian, ever. Stuff like that should at least have a 'nervous disposition' disclaimer on it. I've always been totally freaked out by stuff like that. It was.....disturbing, to say the least.
This is exactly the way Dr Who and Dr Who spin-offs should be. Dr Who is at it's core a horror thing ('The Empty Child' from the Eccelston series?). There's no reason why Torchwood shouldn't be the same.

[CaptainSam]

I just want to say I found 'Countrycide' completely disgusting. I hope its never shown agian, ever. Stuff like that should at least have a 'nervous disposition' disclaimer on it. I've always been totally freaked out by stuff like that. It was.....disturbing, to say the least.

Aha, seems to be doing its job then! Torchwood is on at 10pm, so it doesn't need the "nervous disposition" tag.

Thought it was brill, myself. Just goes to show that you don't need creepy aliens to make a good plot.

When it started, I said to Wasps, "aha! The hills have eyes!" Not far wrong!

If that sort of stuff grosses you out never watch Dog Soldiers or Deathwatch!

Still, could have been worse. There might have been amateur dental surgery. Now that's gross!

[BreathingMeat]

I agree. Best Torchwood yet. The problem with Doctor Who has always been that it seems to think that showing a freaky alien on TV is scary. Nine out of ten times, the alien isn't even slightly scary; just silly.

It's much better, and much scarier, when there isn't an alien, and the horror comes from twisting something ordinary a little bit, or the depravity of human nature, or, if there has to be an alien, make it something offscreen that we never get to laugh at.

I hope there will be some 2-part Torchwood episodes.

[Archonic Energy]

I hope there will be some 2-part Torchwood episodes.

i bet last of this series & first of next with a 9 month gap...

what all the "cool" shows do it

[BreathingMeat]

i bet last of this series & first of next with a 9 month gap...


Hmm, maybe. I'm not sure. Dr Who continuity and Torchwood continuity dance around each other a bit ... so I reckon Torchwood 1:13 will then lead into Dr Who series 3, and Torchwood s2 will pick up from there - so some time will need to pass for the Torchwood characters.

[waspsmakejam]

I think a cliffhanger ending is very likely, but a double episode split over 2 series is almost impossible.

Cliffhangers are traditional in UK scifi, but the double episode trick I've only ever seen on US series. Apart from that, BBC3 haven't yet commissioned the second series of Torchwood and there isn't room in the filming schedule (and probably not the budget) to stretch to another episode.

[Greebo]

I've only seen the first two episodes so far (hooray for bittorents!) - but I'm enjoying the spin off nicely. I like that they haven't really explained how Jack got back to the 21st century, but that they did tie in to the events on the station and aluded to his resurrection by Rose.

The sex-monster was rather funny and sad at the same time too - my wife and I both like what we're seeing so far.

I hope the series continues - has it been well received in the UK?

[Jibar]

Something I thought of. Something is moving in the darkness. When things die they go to the darkness. Doctor killed the body. Rose killed the mind. They seemed to be exempt from time. Therefore, it is Satan. Satan is the one moving.

[Sundog]

I LOVE Torchwood. The first episode was a little weak, but by "Countrycide" it really had me hooked.
There's one coming up (Shoelaces? Shoes? I can't remember) that is probably going to piss a few people off, as it's a bit twee and cute. But I even enjoyed that. And the one before ("They're always killing Suzie") is just superb.

[Were-Sandwich]

The season finale looks good.

Am I the only one who doesn't understand the stopwatch references in the one with Suzie being ressurected?

[Sundog]

The season finale looks good.

Am I the only one who doesn't understand the stopwatch references in the one with Suzie being ressurected?

I believe you are, oh innocent one.

[Jibar]

I didn't get it either.
I think we're too young Sammich.

[CaptainSam]

I understand the stopwatch references, but am choosing to ignore them!

[terrant]

Should be a different thread really but just saw the Sarah Jane spin-off and enjoyed it even though not in its target demographic (by about 30 years). The BBC finally seems to have grasped the idea of good quality stories with good production; I could almost forgive them for celebraties dance/sing/moan/skate/get paid too much/whatever.

[Matthew]

I watched some of that as well. I enjoyed what I saw, but I didn't see the whole thing. As I understand it this is a merchandising ploy to bring youger audiences into the Doctor Who Universe. Not a bad one either; I won't have any complaints as long as the story is good and just the adult content turned down. But then, I thought the Conan the Adventurer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conan_the_Adventurer) Cartoon was a good idea (even though I thought it would have been better done like the The Legend of Prince Valiant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Prince_Valiant) Cartoon [i.e. wounds and death, but no blood).

[bosssmiley]

Should be a different thread really but just saw the Sarah Jane spin-off and enjoyed it even though not in its target demographic (by about 30 years). The BBC finally seems to have grasped the idea of good quality stories with good production; I could almost forgive them for celebraties dance/sing/moan/skate/get paid too much/whatever.

Heard about the "Sarah Jane Adventures" spin-off. Dismissed it as another cynical merchandising ploy designed to leverage the "Dr Who" brand as much as possible before the bubble of public interest bursts.

"Dr Who" Series 3: Mr Potatohead's evil cousins the Sontarans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sontaran) return!

[CaptainSam]

Don't think they're Sontarans, BossSmiley. They have the rounded helmets, but a bit later they're being led by a big, bipedal rhino-headed thingy. Which, frankly, looks cool!

Unless you have an inside source that none of us know about?

[waspsmakejam]

I think the rhino thingies are the Judoon (new monsters). Obviously they are rock, as they stole the Sontarans armour! I'm looking forward to them, but not as much as the Shakespeare episode.

[Greebo]

I did not get the stopwatch reference either. Could someone fill me in ?

[Jibar]

Well, I get it now.
All that buisness with the doulbe episode cleared it all up.
Also, that was a pretty nifty ending. I'm assuming that this is during that period of time that we missed between Christmas and the Battle of Canary Warf.

[CaptainSam]

STOP JIBAR!! Some of us haven't seen it yet. Waiting for tomorrow night. Ssssssh!

Edit: Just seen the preview of season three of Doctor Who again. Definately not Sondarans, though the rhino-thingy looked like one from the brief glimpse.

[Greebo]

So the stopwatch thing is explained later in the season? Because we just watched the one with the 3 ppl from 1953 and I still don't get the stopwatch thing...

[Were-Sandwich]

I think its a sexual innuendo. I've decided I don't want to know.

[ImperiousLeader]

I love the new Doctor Who and Torchwood, they're fun to watch and different from the American sci-fi that I'm used to.