Factotum into Swiftblade

[White_Drake]

For swiftblade you have to be able to cast haste, and the factotum could eventually use haste as a spell-like ability; does that mean you could enter swiftblade with factotum?

[HunterColt22]

RAW, no, because you must either, quoting loosely mind you, "Requirements: You must spend the past level preparing only haste in your 3rd level spell slots. If you are a sorcerer you must only caste haste for your 3rd level spells." Since Factotum does not get actual spells to prepare or spell slots to cast from, They shouldn't be able to qualify. It would be a DMs call on how to rule it, also someone will probably come along and add to this since I have a very vague idea of how SLAs would even work in this instance.

[Hirax]

By RAW it definitely doesn't qualify, but it wouldn't be at all unreasonable to allow it.

[Black_Zawisza]

I see this sort of situation is a litmus test for DMs - if he disallows something perfectly balanced because it's just barely not RAW, I consider that a red flag for poor DMing.

[Curmudgeon]

I see this sort of situation is a litmus test for DMs - if he disallows something perfectly balanced because it's just barely not RAW, I consider that a red flag for poor DMing.
Not having any spellcasting ability, and being incapable of the explicit Special requirement to enter the class, is what you consider "barely" illegal? And what would you expect to get out of "+1 level of arcane spellcasting class" if a DM were so loose with the rules as to allow entry for a non-spellcaster? :smallconfused:

This isn't even in the neighborhood of RAW legal.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Not having any spellcasting ability, and being incapable of the explicit Special requirement to enter the class, is what you consider "barely" illegal? And what would you expect to get out of "+1 level of arcane spellcasting class" if a DM were so loose with the rules as to allow entry for a non-spellcaster? :smallconfused:

This isn't even in the neighborhood of RAW legal.I don't think it's as far out as you make it sound. The prestige class is based around using haste. Factotums can use haste. The fact that the writer of the prestige class assumed haste would be in the form of a spell is reasonable, if a little short-sighted. The fact that the mindbender from Complete Arcane (the only other prestige class I can think of that requires a specific spell for entry) allows entry for those who can cast Charm Person or use it as a spell-like ability or invocation does give some precedent for letting people who are not actually casters into prestige classes with spell specific requirements if they can use the spell in some other way.

If I were DMing this and chose to allow it, it seems pretty obvious to let the "+1 to a casting class" levels advance the factotum's arcane dilletante feature (in spell level and in spells mimiced per day) the same way that advancing a wizard's casting allows more spells per day and higher levels.

That said, I think a DM would be well within his rights not to allow this particular house rule and that it wouldn't de facto make him a bad DM. It's clearly a sign that he's strict in his rules interpretation, but that's not necesarrily a bad thing.

[ThiagoMartell]

Not only Factotums can't get into Swiftblade, they would be the worst Swiftblades ever even if they could.
A Factotum can only cast any given spell once a day. Swiftblade is a class built around casting the same spell repeatedly.
Even the fluff does not match. Factotum is all about covering everything at once while Swiftblade is overly focused on a single spell.
Houserule whichever way you want, but I'm very glad this isn't anywhere near RAW.

[JoshuaZ]

Not only Factotums can't get into Swiftblade, they would be the worst Swiftblades ever even if they could.
A Factotum can only cast any given spell once a day. Swiftblade is a class built around casting the same spell repeatedly.
Even the fluff does not match. Factotum is all about covering everything at once while Swiftblade is overly focused on a single spell.
Houserule whichever way you want, but I'm very glad this isn't anywhere near RAW.

I'm confused by this statement. Why should one be glad that something which doesn't work as a balance issue isn't RAW? I can see a lot of ways to fluff this: someone is a factotum that likes speed but doesn't have the attention span to dedicate themselves to the actual magic required to really do it right for example.

[Oscredwin]

If I was in the position to house rule a factotum into swiftblade I would rule that at Swiftblade1 the character would be able to prep haste multiple times.

[ThiagoMartell]

I'm confused by this statement. Why should one be glad that something which doesn't work as a balance issue isn't RAW? I can see a lot of ways to fluff this: someone is a factotum that likes speed but doesn't have the attention span to dedicate themselves to the actual magic required to really do it right for example.

I'm sorry for my personal preferences not being appealing to your tastes, good sir. I'll change them immediately.

[JoshuaZ]

I'm sorry for my personal preferences not being appealing to your tastes, good sir. I'll change them immediately.

I'm not asking you to change your personal preferences, and I'm sorry if it came out that way. Quite the opposite: I'd be interested in hearing the logic behind your apparently strong preferences.

[Gullara]

This actually seems like a really fun idea. I kinda want to write it down and hope I get a DM that would be cool with working with me to make it work.

I say keep it in mind, White_Drake. You never know if you might find a DM that'd okay it and help you out with it. It does need the modifications suggested here, especially being able to prepare haste more than once, and perhaps making it so Swiftblade progresses Arcane Dilettante in some way.

Definitely a cool idea in any case.

[Talionis]

I'm not asking you to change your personal preferences, and I'm sorry if it came out that way. Quite the opposite: I'd be interested in hearing the logic behind your apparently strong preferences.

The general play of a Factotum is they do a lot of different things well, but most of the Factotum mechanics are once a day mechanics such that you have to be very creative to get similar effects.

Swiftblade casts Haste generally every encounter.

So the not only the RAW, but also the RAI makes the Factotum a very poor choice for a Swiftblade.

You just have to start overlooking or house ruling a lot different aspects of the classes. It's OKAY to do it, but increasingly it becomes more work to do for both Player and DM, to balance out what were real limitations put on the Factotum class.

There are plenty of other viable casters that can get into Swiftblade, so I'd take full stock of all the other choices and make sure the concept you are going for can't be better done in one of the other methods of entry.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a hypothetical Factotum/Swiftblade be able to get around the restriction of only being able to use haste once per day by stocking up on scrolls (or potions)? A lot of Swiftblade effects specify that they apply "while under the effect of a haste spell that you cast yourself" but "a spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way" and "the drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect". Sure it would be expensive, but if your DM is OK with you using the prestige class in the first place, this should at least be a way to get some more mileage out of it.

[Talionis]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a hypothetical Factotum/Swiftblade be able to get around the restriction of only being able to use haste once per day by stocking up on scrolls (or potions)? A lot of Swiftblade effects specify that they apply "while under the effect of a haste spell that you cast yourself" but "a spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way" and "the drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect". Sure it would be expensive, but if your DM is OK with you using the prestige class in the first place, this should at least be a way to get some more mileage out of it.

An excellent suggestion, but again very expensive. Hard to imagine him practicing everyday with his Swiftblade abilities in his down time, but yes that works.