Finding a necrotic cyst

[veven]

Thinking about throwing a villain with the mother cyst feat at my players. The Necrotic cyst spell says, "the cyst is noticeable as a slight bulge, or it is buried deeply enough that it is not immediately obvious".

That is a paraphrase but it's essentially correct. Does this sentence mean the spell caster can choose if the cyst is noticeable? If so, how would one go about finding a hidden cyst?

[Chilingsworth]

Well, if nothing else the party should have a chance of figuring it out once the villian tries to implant them with necrotic cysts.

(Something along the lines of Villian Casts Necrotic Cyst ==> successful spellcraft check to recognise spell ==> Knowledge (Religion? Arcana?) to know that only casters with a mother cyst can cast that spell.)

[JoshuaZ]

Thinking about throwing a villain with the mother cyst feat at my players. The Necrotic cyst spell says, "the cyst is noticeable as a slight bulge, or it is buried deeply enough that it is not immediately obvious".

That is a paraphrase but it's essentially correct. Does this sentence mean the spell caster can choose if the cyst is noticeable? If so, how would one go about finding a hidden cyst?

So in my campaign setting I've interpreted this as the cyst moving slowly inwards after it is formed, so it becomes harder to find. By RAW finding a hidden cyst requires having a Mother Cyst and using the spell to detect cysts. (In my current campaign, players had to recently go on a quest to find alternate ways of detecting them.) Having the cyst be noticeable or not as a choice is a reasonable interpretation of the rules, with the disclaimer that if you do that, it moves from highly abuseable to insanely abuseable.

[The Viscount]

I would guess that a hidden cyst could still be felt, though it might require some searching. Perhaps a heal check to recognize a lump where one shouldn't be, like a doctor feeling for inflamed lymph nodes.

Alienist and Binder both have features that are significantly more noticeable, and are noted with crunch effects. I don't imagine mother cyst would be that obtrusive, as it is not discussed.

[veven]

I would guess that a hidden cyst could still be felt, though it might require some searching. Perhaps a heal check to recognize a lump where one shouldn't be, like a doctor feeling for inflamed lymph nodes.


Yeah, this is sort of the direction I was thinking of going. What do you think would be a fair DC for the heal check?

[Malroth]

DC 30, a moderately skilled Healer 5 ranks +2 stat + 3 skill focus can barely find it if taking 20 to perform a 2 hour full medical examination.

[Darth Stabber]

DC 30, a moderately skilled Healer 5 ranks +2 stat + 3 skill focus can barely find it if taking 20 to perform a 2 hour full medical examination.

Yet the same healer can remove the thing with DC20 heal check (on which they cannot take 20), meaning it is easier to blindly remove it than figure out where it is . It wouldn't be hard to rule that necrotic awareness would give you the location of the cyst itself with additional rounds of study, but that's pure house ruling.

Necrocysts are a fun way to get reduced level scrying and domination with a permanent domination, everything else is gravy to prepared casters, but for spont casters the feat is great way to add a lot of good stuff to your spell list. Dread necros are obvious, but put in on a warmage and all of a sudden he's a seriously more interesting threat (though you can get better spells through arcane disciple with the right domain).

[Talionis]

Mother Cyst is really neat. Works to give you access to higher level spells on your spell list. So versatile Spellcaster could give you one level higher spells than you should have. Also very cool for Spellthiefs to have spells to cast if they steal higher level spells.

[TheifofZ]

I'd probably suggest a DC 20 Heal check for the noticeable cysts, but once it's "hidden" the difficulty would ramp upward to DC 30, as previously mentioned.

The feat and granted spells are all really cool, but are harder to use on a PC than on a villain, simply due to the "spend a round implanting the cyst before you can do anything with it". As a flavorful and disturbing addition to a villain though...
... Why haven't I used this in my campaign yet?

[Alleran]

The feat and granted spells are all really cool, but are harder to use on a PC than on a villain, simply due to the "spend a round implanting the cyst before you can do anything with it". As a flavorful and disturbing addition to a villain though...
... Why haven't I used this in my campaign yet?
If you're willing to burn a Celerity spell, then you have your extra action to implant the cyst.

Frankly, I think the cyst is most useful for elite guards of the BBEG, or for his harem (if one exists), since the permanent domination that bypasses attempts to stop it (subsuming a portion of the target's brain stem) is really, really useful for keeping minions under your control.

[The Viscount]

I would agree with a DC 20 Heal check to find the cyst. Granted, not everyone will exactly be willing to strip down for a physical, so it shouldn't cause too much of a problem to be able to find the thing.