What there will power?

[D4rtagnan]

Is there anyway to get a sense of a creatures will score?
My DM is throwing in a lot of creatures with really high saves....just faced of with a demon that base save was 35...

Maybe sense motive or something...has D&D published anything regarding the matter?

[Ravens_cry]

A high enough appropriate knowledge check should at least tell you in general terms, I think.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm

In many cases, you can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities.

[BowStreetRunner]

A knowledge check should yield information appropriate to the creature's race, but won't tell anything about any class levels it has and the bonus to will saves it gets from those. Nor will it tell you what magic items or effects are in place that may improve its will save. So a DM can always send in a creature that normally has a low will save, but has levels in a class with good will saves and a save-boosting item, and you would not know about the boosts.

[Ravens_cry]

Yeah, that's true. For at least the magic items, there is spells for that.
Class levels will have to be observation, I think. If it's casting spells instead of spell like abilities, it probably has a higher will save as I am pretty sure all core primary spell casters give high will saves, as do Bards.

[javijuji]

With a Sense Motive check you can measure the creatures "power" compared to your own. It compares your level with the creatures HD. I believe there is more information about this in complete adventurer.

[ericgrau]

It would be a reasonable part of a knowledge check to ballpark saves as a matter of "low", "normal" or "high" with wide ranges for each. Generally a creature's saves are around its CR, with reflex averaging 2 lower than fort and will. If it's more than 5 away from that then the DM might mention it with the knowledge check. As mentioned it would only apply to the creature's base race not any add-ons.

Some example core demons:
{table]|Fort|Ref|Will
Babau|Norm|Norm|Norm
Balor|Norm|Norm|Norm
Bebilith|High|Norm|Norm
Dretch|Norm|Norm|Norm
Glabrezu|High|Norm|Norm
Hezrou|High|Norm|Norm
Marilith|Norm|Norm|Norm
Nalfeshnee|Norm|Norm|Norm
Quasit|Norm|High|Norm
Retriever|Low|Norm|Low
Succubus|Norm|Norm|Norm
Vrock|High|Norm|Norm
[/table]

Hmm I suspect either an obscure monster manual, DM fiat or a lot of special add-ons here. Probably not something you'd get with a knowledge check unless it's the first one. Nothing even close to 35.

[Ravens_cry]

With a Sense Motive check you can measure the creatures "power" compared to your own. It compares your level with the creatures HD. I believe there is more information about this in complete adventurer.
Reminds me of someone using Appraise to measure HD of some guards thanks to the rules for buying selling slaves.
Not my group, but I think someone on this board.

[ericgrau]

Lol. I never liked that sense motive rule either. IMO it should measure how confidant they are but that's about it.

[Rubik]

"Vegeta! What does the scouter say about his willpower level?"

"IT'S OVER...1,006."

[BowStreetRunner]

Reminds me of someone using Appraise to measure HD of some guards thanks to the rules for buying selling slaves.
Not my group, but I think someone on this board.

Okay, that's it! I am playing a Slave-Trader as my next character. Now, I just have to figure out how to max-out my Appraise skill. :smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

Okay, that's it! I am playing a Slave-Trader as my next character. Now, I just have to figure out how to max-out my Appraise skill. :smallbiggrin:
That might be an interesting concept for a morally ambiguous campaign just from a role play angle alone.