Bards in a combat oreinted campaign

[sambouchah]

How can I incorporate a bard PC in my combat oriented campaign? I have had this problem quite often and could use some help.
Thanks, Sam

[hymer]

The feats Song of the Heart (ECS) and Words of Creation (BoED) and the spell Inspirational Boost (SpC) alone will make your Inspire Courage very, very good.

Edit: Come to think of it, were you talking roleplaying-wise? Isn't it a matter of the bard following some heroes around to see their heroic heroisms in heroic detail? So he can write songs about them and stuff?

[Urpriest]

Like any other class, you being by googling a handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/bards-handbook.html).

Tl;dr: Bards are just as combat-capable as anyone, anyone who tells you otherwise is selling you something.

[Malroth]

A Inspire courage or dragon fire inspiration, Optimized bard is a huge boon to a party and often adds more damage output than adding a 3rd pure melee character would, Bards also make very good combatants themselves (offensively anyway)

[Amnestic]

Like any other class, you being by googling a handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/bards-handbook.html).

Tl;dr: Bards are just as combat-capable as anyone, anyone who tells you otherwise is selling you something.

I'll add Inspire Courage Optimisation: Handbook Edition (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=7ksvv9q13d9dvifk9ilfa165n0&topic=9830.0) to that as well.

[docnessuno]

Check both links, as they provide a great deal of really useful informations for bards.

For pure bard builds the most common route is:
1) Optimize your inspire courage as much as possible
2) Get dragonfire inspiration
3) Activate both inspire courage and dragonfire inspiration

Another good idea is Bard / Warblade or Bard / Crusader, taking advantage of the "song of the white raven" feat and of the usual isnpire courage optimization while mantaining an effective combat prowess thanks to manouvers.

[sambouchah]

The feats Song of the Heart (ECS) and Words of Creation (BoED) and the spell Inspirational Boost (SpC) alone will make your Inspire Courage very, very good.

Edit: Come to think of it, were you talking roleplaying-wise? Isn't it a matter of the bard following some heroes around to see their heroic heroisms in heroic detail? So he can write songs about them and stuff?

What supplement is words of creation from? It sounds like it'd help but I'm not sure where to find it.

[Amnestic]

What supplement is words of creation from? It sounds like it'd help but I'm not sure where to find it.

Book of Exalted Deeds.

[sambouchah]

Book of Exalted Deeds.

Also would a Tiefling do well as a bard?

[Yuki Akuma]

Tieflings have a -2 penalty to Charisma.

Why would you play a Tiefling, of all things?

[Amnestic]

Also would a Tiefling do well as a bard?

+1 LA hurts (as it does for any character) and the -2 Charisma isn't exactly awesome either. It's hardly impossible, but it's certainly not a recommended race. Human or Strongheart Halfling would probably be best since Bards tend to be quite feat intensive.

[Alabenson]

+1 LA hurts (as it does for any character) and the -2 Charisma isn't exactly awesome either. It's hardly impossible, but it's certainly not a recommended race. Human or Strongheart Halfling would probably be best since Bards tend to be quite feat intensive.

If its a combat oriented campaign, you'll probably want to go Silverbrow Human from Dragon Magic. That way you have the "dragonblood" subtype and qualify for Dragonfire Inspiration.

[Amnestic]

If its a combat oriented campaign, you'll probably want to go Silverbrow Human from Dragon Magic. That way you have the "dragonblood" subtype and qualify for Dragonfire Inspiration.

I believe, though am not certain, that it's possible to go be Glimmerskin Strongheart Halfling too, giving you the feat plus the dragonblood subtype should you desire shortness as well.

[Alabenson]

I believe, though am not certain, that it's possible to go be Glimmerskin Strongheart Halfling too, giving you the feat plus the dragonblood subtype should you desire shortness as well.

The book specifies that Glimmerskin are identical to the halflings in the Players Handbook except as noted, which would indicate that you can't combine Glimmerskin with Strongheart.

[Varis]

Also would a Tiefling do well as a bard?

Any race will do fine. Bard is such a powerful class regardless of stats


You want your songs to be good but not spend feats on it? Just cast inspirational boost (level 1 spell from spell compendium) and use a badge of valor ( magic item compendium item for 1400gp) and boom your +1 song is now a +3 song.

you suck at fighting? use a crystal echoblade (adds half your bard level to damage) get the snowflake wardance feat and now add your charisma modifier to hit on top of all your other bonuses.
What's that? your armor class is like 12? Use swift invis early on right after you attack, greater invis later on and finally greater blink for ultimate protection.
If that won't cut it, then just cast ray of dizziness for an easy win.

Bust your friends out of Jail and don't feel like giving it any effort? Cast glibness.

That's lower level stuff.. as you get higher the stuff you can do gets out of control.

[eggs]

Are we talking PF?
If so, Bards' options are a bit less friendly to Inspire Courage and Sublime Chord-style casting, but Tieflings are a somewhat more useful racial choice.

[sambouchah]

Any race will do fine. Bard is such a powerful class regardless of stats


You want your songs to be good but not spend feats on it? Just cast inspirational boost (level 1 spell from spell compendium) and use a badge of valor ( magic item compendium item for 1400gp) and boom your +1 song is now a +3 song.

you suck at fighting? use a crystal echoblade (adds half your bard level to damage) get the snowflake wardance feat and now add your charisma modifier to hit on top of all your other bonuses.
What's that? your armor class is like 12? Use swift invis early on right after you attack, greater invis later on and finally greater blink for ultimate protection.
If that won't cut it, then just cast ray of dizziness for an easy win.

Bust your friends out of Jail and don't feel like giving it any effort? Cast glibness.

That's lower level stuff.. as you get higher the stuff you can do gets out of control.

To all who said that a Tiefling is a bad choice I assumed that because it's favored class was rogue it may do well. Also could you give me the names of the books that those feats are in? thanks so much! mind if I use your username in my campaign?

[Slipperychicken]

Intimidate. Tome of Battle introduced the "duel of wills" Intimidate use, which basically allows you to roll opposed Intimidate checks against an opponent while Initiative is rolled. If you succeed, the enemy is penalized for the rest of the combat. Not much, but every little bit counts, and it's an excuse to put something in your social skills. Also very handy for getting what you want without looking like a pansy.

UMD ranks are good for any Bard. Wands of useful spells like Nerveskitter, Benign Transposition, and Cure Light can be quite handy for combatants. See if you can get Wand Chambers on your weapons, as per Dungeonscape. If you aren't using your Bracer slots for anything, Wand Bracers are good too.

I've heard of people building "Blaster Bards", but have few details on how this works. I assume it has to do with Bards having easier access to Sonic damage, which very few creatures are resistant to.

Seconding Inspire Courage/DFI. It can add some serious damage, especially if you have attack-spammers in the group. Get some War Drums (song and silence), and you can buff a whole army.

Also look into Crusader or Warblade dip. White Raven maneuvers/stances (and the Song of the White Raven feat) synergize well with bards, benefiting the whole team.

Perform (Oratory). You're not some pencil-necked, skirt-chasing pansy Bard, you're a badass action-hero Commander. Pick up some good quotes from generals real and fictional, the right attitude, the occasional awesome stunt, and you're good to go.

EDIT: To further represent the "squad leader" archetype, Battle Signals from Heroes of Battle is a language which is essentially SWAT-style hand signals to silently convey information (getting the whole party to take the language will also make you a lot more stealthy, since your bickering communications won't be overheard by enemies.

[sambouchah]

Intimidate. Tome of Battle introduced the "duel of wills" Intimidate use, which basically allows you to roll opposed Intimidate checks against an opponent while Initiative is rolled. If you succeed, the enemy is penalized for the rest of the combat. Not much, but every little bit counts, and it's an excuse to put something in your social skills. Also very handy for getting what you want without looking like a pansy.

UMD ranks are good for any Bard. Wands of useful spells like Nerveskitter, Benign Transposition, and Cure Light can be quite handy for combatants. See if you can get Wand Chambers on your weapons, as per Dungeonscape. If you aren't using your Bracer slots for anything, Wand Bracers are good too.

I've heard of people building "Blaster Bards", but have few details on how this works. I assume it has to do with Bards having easier access to Sonic damage, which very few creatures are resistant to.

Seconding Inspire Courage/DFI. It can add some serious damage, especially if you have attack-spammers in the group. Get some War Drums (song and silence), and you can buff a whole army.

Also look into Crusader or Warblade dip. White Raven maneuvers/stances (and the Song of the White Raven feat) synergize well with bards, benefiting the whole team.

Perform (Oratory). You're not some pencil-necked, skirt-chasing pansy Bard, you're a badass action-hero Commander. Pick up some good quotes from generals real and fictional, the right attitude, the occasional awesome stunt, and you're good to go.

Oh man thanks! That helps quite a bit!

[Alabenson]

To all who said that a Tiefling is a bad choice I assumed that because it's favored class was rogue it may do well. Also could you give me the names of the books that those feats are in? thanks so much! mind if I use your username in my campaign?

Both the Silverbrow Human subrace and the Dragonfire Inspiration feat are in Dragon Magic.

[Talionis]

Combat Panache is a great feat.

Undersong Spell is cool if you think you'll have to make a lot of concentration checks.

Have fun, Bards should be excellent support for a combat focused campaign and they can be contributors as well!

Bards are one of my favorite classes!

[demigodus]

Bard doesn't work too well with multiclassing. General idea with a bard tends to be to optimize Inspire Courage.

If you want the Tiefling, there is a Lesser Tiefling in Player's Guide the Faerun

If you want to use Intimidate, pick up the Imperious Command feat, and a Fearsome Armor enchantment. Both are from Drow in the Underdark. The armor gives you a +5 to Intimidate, and lets you use it as a move action (so you can intimidate, cast a spell AND use a swift action ability). The feat makes your opponent cower in one round. Which translates to them not doing anything at all. You can do this every round, and just completely lock down an opponent.

What level are you, and what is the rest of your party like?

[Varis]

To all who said that a Tiefling is a bad choice I assumed that because it's favored class was rogue it may do well. Also could you give me the names of the books that those feats are in? thanks so much! mind if I use your username in my campaign?

The snowflake wardance feat is from Frostburn. Of course you can use the name =)

[KitTheOdd]

Another recommendation for mixing Bard with ToB. Bard/Warblade/Jade Phoenix Mage has some nice options advancing both spellcasting and martial maneuvers. Even if it isn't "optimum" it can still hold its own in most groups. Focus on personal buffs and go with Perform(chant) - nothing says winning like a big guy singing battle chants as he chops you into little bitty pieces.

[sambouchah]

Bard doesn't work too well with multiclassing. General idea with a bard tends to be to optimize Inspire Courage.

If you want the Tiefling, there is a Lesser Tiefling in Player's Guide the Faerun

If you want to use Intimidate, pick up the Imperious Command feat, and a Fearsome Armor enchantment. Both are from Drow in the Underdark. The armor gives you a +5 to Intimidate, and lets you use it as a move action (so you can intimidate, cast a spell AND use a swift action ability). The feat makes your opponent cower in one round. Which translates to them not doing anything at all. You can do this every round, and just completely lock down an opponent.

What level are you, and what is the rest of your party like?

Is there a thread or a website/book you could point me towards for optimizing my bard? D&D is today at twelve so only a few more hour for character creation.

[sambouchah]

Also the Dragon Inspiration feat seems extremely great but it would take two feats to obtain(I believe I will play a Gnome) Any suggestions?

[demigodus]

Is there a thread or a website/book you could point me towards for optimizing my bard? D&D is today at twelve so only a few more hour for character creation.

Personally I like this one for its organization: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284

If you want to build into Inspire Courage (you should do this only if there are a few others melees or ranged attackers in the party. It can get insanely powerful that way, but if everyone is a caster, is kinda weak):
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869994/Bard_Inspire_Courage_Optimization

Sorry, I don't know of any draconic gnome variants. I believe there is the alternative of dipping one level of sorcerer, but probably is not worth it. For the record, Inspire Courage on its own can be very powerful already. For example:
1 (base) + 1 (Vest of Legends) + 1 (Inspirational Boost Spell) + 1 (Song of the Heart feat, can be gotten as an ACF) + 1 (masterwork horn)

^ the above requires 3 levels of bard, 1 level 1 spell cast as a swift action, 1 Alternate Class Feature, 1 masterwork item, and 1 magical item. You give everyone in the party a +5 to both attack and damage.

If you pick up Words of Creation, that becomes a +10 to attack and damage. For 2 feats. At level 6. Though you should probably get a Harmonizing blade as well, so you don't have to keep playing it.

I would honestly suggest just making Inspire Courage effective, and then focus on something else. There will be times when for some convoluted reason Inspire Courage doesn't work. Don't pour all resources into it.

[sambouchah]

Personally I like this one for its organization: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284

If you want to build into Inspire Courage (you should do this only if there are a few others melees or ranged attackers in the party. It can get insanely powerful that way, but if everyone is a caster, is kinda weak):
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869994/Bard_Inspire_Courage_Optimization

Sorry, I don't know of any draconic gnome variants. I believe there is the alternative of dipping one level of sorcerer, but probably is not worth it. For the record, Inspire Courage on its own can be very powerful already. For example:
1 (base) + 1 (Vest of Legends) + 1 (Inspirational Boost Spell) + 1 (Song of the Heart feat, can be gotten as an ACF) + 1 (masterwork horn)

^ the above requires 3 levels of bard, 1 level 1 spell cast as a swift action, 1 Alternate Class Feature, 1 masterwork item, and 1 magical item. You give everyone in the party a +5 to both attack and damage.

If you pick up Words of Creation, that becomes a +10 to attack and damage. For 2 feats. At level 6. Though you should probably get a Harmonizing blade as well, so you don't have to keep playing it.

I would honestly suggest just making Inspire Courage effective, and then focus on something else. There will be times when for some convoluted reason Inspire Courage doesn't work. Don't pour all resources into it.

People keep referring to words of creation. That is in which book again? I'm very greatful for every ones suggestions by the by

[demigodus]

Book of Exalted Deeds

requires 15 Int, 15 Cha, and +5 Will bonus (you get this by 6th level of bard, so you can pick up the feat at lvl 6 if you go straight bard)

When you use Inspire Courage, you can take 3d4 points of Temporary damage. In exchange, the bonuses from your song are doubled. And some other less important effects.

If you are evil, and you try to use this feat, you die.

[sambouchah]

Book of Exalted Deeds

requires 15 Int, 15 Cha, and +5 Will bonus (you get this by 6th level of bard, so you can pick up the feat at lvl 6 if you go straight bard)

When you use Inspire Courage, you can take 3d4 points of Temporary damage. In exchange, the bonuses from your song are doubled. And some other less important effects.

If you are evil, and you try to use this feat, you die.

Actually right after I asked I had found it in the PDF I had downloaded! WOW! :smallyuk: and thank you for the help.

[Slipperychicken]

Actually right after I asked I had found it in the PDF I had downloaded! WOW! :smallyuk: and thank you for the help.

Now look at page 39, "Exalted Feats".

Be wary: It's an [Exalted] feat, which requires your character to be Super Duper Good. You have to ask your DM's permission, be Good alignment with "the highest moral standards", get the power from an agent of goodness, and you lose the benefit of all [Exalted] feats if you ever commit an Evil act (thankfully you retain all your other feats and class features), and need to Atone if you want to use them again.

[TuggyNE]

To all who said that a Tiefling is a bad choice I assumed that because it's favored class was rogue it may do well.

Side note: favored class is quite specific, and rogue and bard are different enough it doesn't really carry over. (For example, most rogues are not especially Cha-dependent, but bards certainly are.) Also, the actual meaning of favored class is merely that the specified class doesn't count toward multiclass penalties, but since many campaigns don't use those anyway, it doesn't make much difference.