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View Full Version : 12-year-old uses Dungeons & Dragons Monsters to help Dad with research



Libertad
2012-12-15, 01:06 AM
Very, very cool. (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/30/12-year-old-uses-dungeons-and-dragons-to-help-scientist-dad-with-his-research/#.UMwSs2_kjX5)


Alan Kingstone, a psychologist at the University of British Columbia, had a problem: all humans have their eyes in the middle of their faces, and there’s nothing that Kingstone could do about it. His 12-year-old son, Julian Levy, had the solution: monsters. While some monsters are basically humanoid in shape, others have eyes on their hands, tails, tentacles and other unnatural body parts. Perfect. Kingstone would use monsters. And Julian would get his first publication in a journal from the Royal Society, one of the world’s most august scientific institutions.

In 1998, Kingstone showed that people will automatically look where other people are looking. Other scientists have since found this gaze-copying behaviour among many other animals, from birds to goats to dolphins. It seems fairly obvious why we would do this—we get an easy clue about interesting information in the world around us. But what are we actually doing?

There are two competing answers. The obvious one is that we’re naturally drawn to people’s eyes, so we’ll automatically register where they’re looking. Indeed, one part of the brain – the superior temporal sulcus – is involved in processing the direction of gazes. The equally plausible alternative is that we’re focused more broadly on faces, and the eyes just happen to be in the middle. After all, we see faces in inanimate objects, and we have a area in our brains—the fusiform face area (FFA)—that responds to the sight of faces.

One evening, Kingstone was explaining these two hypotheses to Julian over dinner. “A colleague had said that dissociating the two ideas — eyes vs. centre of head — would be impossible because the eyes of humans are in the centre of the head,” Kingstone said. “I told Julian that when people say something is impossible, they sometimes tell you more about themselves than anything.”

Julian agreed. He thought it would be easy to discriminate between the two ideas: just use the Monster Manual. This book will be delightfully familiar to a certain brand of geek. It’s the Bible of fictional beasties that accompanied the popular dice-rolling role-playing game Dungeons and Dragons. Regularly updated, it bursts with great visuals and bizarrely detailed accounts of unnatural history. It has differently coloured dragons, undead, beholders… I think one edition had a were-badger. Parts of this blog are essentially a non-fictional version of the Monster Manual.

Levy knew that the Manual contained many nightmarish monsters whose eyes are not on their faces. If people still looked at the eyes of these creatures, it would answer the question. Kingstone loved the idea. He persuaded Julian’s teacher to give him some time away from school to test his ideas for himself, and she agreed.

Levy asked 22 volunteers to stare at the corner of a screen, press a key to bring up one of 36 monster images, and let their eyes roam free. All the while, he tracked their eye movements with a camera (which he’s modelling in the photo above).

The recordings showed that when volunteers looked at drawings of humans or humanoids (monsters with more or less human shapes), their eyes moved to the centre of the screen, and then straight up. If the volunteers saw monsters with displaced eyes, they stared at the centre, and then off in various directions. The volunteers looked at eyes early and frequently, whether they were on the creatures’ faces or not.

This isn’t just an academic exercise, says Kingstone. “If people are just targeting the centre of the head, like they target the centre of most objects, and getting the eyes for free, that’s one thing. But if they are actually seeking out eyes that’s another thing altogether,” he says. It means that different parts of the brain are involved when we glean social information from our peers. It might also help to explain why people with autism often fail to make eye contact with other people, and which parts of the brain are responsible.

In the meantime, the paper describing the results—delightfully entitled “Monsters are people too”—has been published in Biology Letters. Kingstone wrote it with postdoc Tom Foulsham, but Levy did the rest. He prepared the images, trained himself to use the eye-tracker, ran the experiment, and coded all the data. Accordingly, at the current age of 14, he’s the first author on the paper.

Sturmcrow
2012-12-15, 01:37 AM
AWESOME!

I shared immediately on FB. As someone with a B.A. in Psychology and into D&D I found the article fascinating. Thank you for posting it.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2012-12-15, 03:03 AM
That kid got a published academic paper at 14?
...
Man, I'm jealous!

Morph Bark
2012-12-15, 05:47 AM
That kid got a published academic paper at 14?
...
Man, I'm jealous!

I have to admit, so am I.

That's a pretty smart kid, and wise of the father to pick up on his ideas.

Fragenstein
2012-12-21, 10:03 AM
... and we have a area in our brains—the fusiform face area (FFA)—that responds to the sight of faces.

So what area of my brain is responding to the sight of boobs?

Brother Oni
2012-12-21, 10:09 AM
So what area of my brain is responding to the sight of boobs?

I don't think it's your brain that's doing the thinking there...

TheWombatOfDoom
2012-12-21, 10:14 AM
So what area of my brain is responding to the sight of boobs?

That has to do with the instinct for a person to be attracted to characteristics that would be prime for reproduction of the species, with this being geared toward feeding offspring. Or so they say.

Back to the OP, that is awesome. I'm very happy to hear that D & D continues to proove its worth, and that people continue to be willing to show the public it is a worthwile activity.

dehro
2012-12-21, 10:32 AM
So what area of my brain is responding to the sight of boobs?

clearly the part of the brain that is succeptible to the law of gravitation.
http://wtfcontent.com/img/132744420482.jpg

Dave Halfbreed
2012-12-21, 11:42 AM
That's awesome. Great idea and great study.

As for the eye question, the most primitive species showing cephalization would be the flatworms, but arthropods and chordates seemed to have developed it independently. Most invertebrates are the perfect example for this kid's argument, as well

Elder Tsofu
2012-12-22, 03:43 AM
Couldn't it just be that you go for the eyes due to a lack of a recognisable face to focus on? Or to sum up facial components spread over a picture?

TrioThePunch
2012-12-22, 05:38 AM
I don't think it's your brain that's doing the thinking there...

Well, what other part of the body can think?

I believe the reason that since it can be argued that certain attributes that you may think people are hoping to find in a mate are because they are beneficial for the offspring means that it is very intelligent to choose such a person to produce an offspring due to possible genetic advantages.

SiuiS
2012-12-22, 05:52 AM
So what area of my brain is responding to the sight of boobs?

I personally find my eyes drawn to movement and curves. Makes driving interesting.


Well, what other part of the body can think?

Define 'think'.

TrioThePunch
2012-12-22, 05:55 AM
I personally find my eyes drawn to movement and curves. Makes driving interesting.



Define 'think'.

To process complex thoughts

Brother Oni
2012-12-22, 06:11 AM
Well, what other part of the body can think?

I suspect you're missing the joke.

Can I ask how old you are?

TrioThePunch
2012-12-22, 06:13 AM
I suspect you're missing the joke.

Can I ask how old you are?

I think I understand the joke.
But I try to keep conversations of that nature serious.

Brother Oni
2012-12-22, 06:23 AM
I think I understand the joke.
But I try to keep conversations of that nature serious.

That's perfectly fine, however you will find that a lot of people are more casual about it.

To answer your question in a more formal nature, it's the amygdala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala) or 'crocodile' part of the brain that thinking. It's more concerned with basic aggression responses and sexual behaviour that humans have, or 'fight, flight and [4 letter word meaning copulation beginning with 'F]'.

SiuiS
2012-12-22, 06:29 AM
To process complex thoughts

Thought is either the process or product of thinking. It's a circular definition.

Not to be pedantic, of course. You said you prefer to keep this sort of thing serious, and it occurred to me that definition doesn't work when comparing the joke to being reflexive which hits the spinal column but not the brain proper.

There was also a well-cited but probably rather amateur study being started base on someone putting together that a combination of, what? Neurons? Something, along with fascia between the musculature and organs being related to the term "gut feeling" wherein the area actually processes data at a similar level to spinal reflex, generating a sense of positivity or negativity often literally felt in the gut. It's not complex enough to be thought, but based on definitions, having part of your body actually making decisions based on sensory input and thoughts from your brain proper could Qualify.

The penis has almost nothing to do with the boob thing, being more a symptom of the real cause, if anything.

Brother Oni
2012-12-22, 07:42 AM
There was also a well-cited but probably rather amateur study being started base on someone putting together that a combination of, what? Neurons? Something, along with fascia between the musculature and organs being related to the term "gut feeling" wherein the area actually processes data at a similar level to spinal reflex, generating a sense of positivity or negativity often literally felt in the gut. It's not complex enough to be thought, but based on definitions, having part of your body actually making decisions based on sensory input and thoughts from your brain proper could Qualify.

Without reading the study, I would hazard a guess that the subtle environmental clues being processed on a subconscious level have triggered the sympathetic nervous system ready for a 'fight or flight' response, which involves diverting blood away from the digestive system, hence causing the sensation in the gut.



The penis has almost nothing to do with the boob thing, being more a symptom of the real cause, if anything.

True, but 'being lead around by the d***' sounds a lot more catchy than 'being lead around by the amygdala'. :smalltongue:

SiuiS
2012-12-22, 09:43 AM
Without reading the study, I would hazard a guess that the subtle environmental clues being processed on a subconscious level have triggered the sympathetic nervous system ready for a 'fight or flight' response, which involves diverting blood away from the digestive system, hence causing the sensation in the gut.


Possibly. It was about information being networked by fascia specifically, but the only leads one could find to it nowadays are all homeopathic. So who knows? Could be a case of fitting theory to evidence or whatnot. Evidence to theory? The bad one.



True, but 'being lead around by the d***' sounds a lot more catchy than 'being lead around by the amygdala'. :smalltongue:

I don't know, Brother Oni. Have you tried fitting "Dee-three-asterisk" into a conversation? Amygdala has flow. And kinda sounds like amidala, prompting star wards conversation. Bonus.

Mauve Shirt
2012-12-22, 11:00 AM
**** is so much easier to fit into a conversation. I use it every day on my coworkers. "Hey Jameson, stop being a **** and get my papers from the copier!"


(Watch out for the dee-three-asterisks, that could be considered bypassing filters and you could get an infraction)

KillingAScarab
2012-12-22, 01:26 PM
I do hope Levy's study took advantage of the presence of monsters which don't have eyes, such as the Yrthak (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/yrthak.htm) or the Purple Worm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/purpleWorm.htm). Might that not help to establish which people know the shape of the monsters already and which are looking for eyes, or maybe even where they look for eyes?

SiuiS
2012-12-23, 10:21 AM
I do hope Levy's study took advantage of the presence of monsters which don't have eyes, such as the Yrthak (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/yrthak.htm) or the Purple Worm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/purpleWorm.htm). Might that not help to establish which people know the shape of the monsters already and which are looking for eyes, or maybe even where they look for eyes?

The yrthak specifically has indentations under its horn that suggest eyes would go there on a sane anatomy. From memory (admittedly biased) I focus on center mass with some gravitation towards mouths or shoulders. This seems like a survival thing more than anything because those are the parts the monster could throw at me for harming and pain.