how much for a endless holy water decanter?

[silverwolfer]

Just throwing up numbers

Would it be as simple as holy water x endless decater of water = new item ?

[docnessuno]

Short answer:
Ask your DM

Long answer:
The pricing of use-activated items is one of the areas where DM's discrection is not only suggested but pretty much mandatory, otherwise the party will go around with use-activated weapons granting true strike and similar effects.

Decanter of Endless Water: 9.000 gp
Bless water, CL1, use activated: 4.500 gp
Bless water, CL9 (same as Decanter), use activated: 20.500 gp

Considering the effect i'd price it between 15.750 gp (bare minimum, decanter + additional effect at 1,5x price) and 22.500 (wich is imho a reasonable price).

[Malimar]

That would give you a cost of 225,000gp. Which, being cheaper than at least one Epic Wondrous Item, is pretty preposterous for such a low-level effect (though it could certainly ruin the day of any Undead or Evil Outsiders you come across, depending how much damage your DM rules the geyser setting does to them).


I feel like doing a thought experiment, so let's math it out. This is out of the realm of strict RAW and into the realm of "the only RAW available is explicitly just guidelines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#tableEstimatingMagicItemGol dPieceValues)". But, were I your DM, this would be my thinking:

A Decanter of Endless Holy Water would, effectively, be a Decanter of Endless Water combined with an item of infinite bless water.

If you want the water to be blessed as fast as it's created, that sounds like "use-activated or continuous", which means spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp. It's a level 1 spell. You could argue that you only need to be level 1 to cast it, but I would argue that the Decanter of Endless Water requires you to be caster level 9 anyway, so the CL should be 9. So that's 1 x 9 x 2000 = 18,000.

But I'd say this counts as "actually cast the spell", so you also have to pay for bless water's 25gp material component cost, fifty times over. So that's an extra 1,250.

So an item of continuous bless water is 18,000 + 1,250 = 19,250 gp.

However, we still have to combine that with the Decanter of Endless Water. I would say this is "multiple similar abilities". So that's the price of the single most costly ability, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (and we stop there because only two abilities). I'll count "being a Decanter of Endless Water" as one ability, and use the existing 9,000 price tag for that.

So, the cost for the final Decanter of Endless Holy Water: 19,250 + 0.75 x 9,000 = 26,000 gp

Fun bonus observation: even though the regular Decanter requires the level 4 spell [i]control water, it's priced as though it's a use-activated/continuous item of the 0th-level create water spell, at the item-required caster level of 9.

EDIT:

Short answer:
Ask your DM
Long answer:
The pricing of use-activated items is one of the areas where DM's discrection is not only suggested but pretty much mandatory, otherwise the party will go around with use-activated weapons granting true strike and similar effects.
This. Because, if you'll observe, the two of us used what appear to be entirely the same set of guidelines and arrived at somewhat different answers. (Unless one of us just used them wrong. But there's enough ambiguity and contradictions in the guidelines that I'd almost be surprised if one of us had done it unambiguously incorrectly.)

[docnessuno]

That would give you a cost of 225,000gp. Which, being cheaper than at least one Epic Wondrous Item, is pretty preposterous for such a low-level effect (though it could certainly ruin the day of any Undead or Evil Outsiders you come across, depending how much damage your DM rules the geyser setting does to them).


I feel like doing a thought experiment, so let's math it out. This is out of the realm of strict RAW and into the realm of "the only RAW available is explicitly just guidelines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#tableEstimatingMagicItemGol dPieceValues)". But, were I your DM, this would be my thinking:

A Decanter of Endless Holy Water would, effectively, be a Decanter of Endless Water combined with an item of infinite bless water.

If you want the water to be blessed as fast as it's created, that sounds like "use-activated or continuous", which means spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp. It's a level 1 spell. You could argue that you only need to be level 1 to cast it, but I would argue that the Decanter of Endless Water requires you to be caster level 9 anyway, so the CL should be 9. So that's 1 x 9 x 2000 = 18,000.

But I'd say this counts as "actually cast the spell", so you also have to pay for bless water's 25gp material component cost, fifty times over. So that's an extra 1,250.

So an item of continuous bless water is 18,000 + 1,250 = 19,250 gp.

However, we still have to combine that with the Decanter of Endless Water. I would say this is "multiple similar abilities". So that's the price of the single most costly ability, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (and we stop there because only two abilities). I'll count "being a Decanter of Endless Water" as one ability, and use the existing 9,000 price tag for that.

So, the cost for the final Decanter of Endless Holy Water: 19,250 + 0.75 x 9,000 = 26,000 gp

Fun bonus observation: even though the regular Decanter requires the level 4 spell [i]control water, it's priced as though it's a use-activated/continuous item of the 0th-level create water spell, at the item-required caster level of 9.

EDIT:

This. Because, if you'll observe, the two of us used what appear to be entirely the same set of guidelines and arrived at somewhat different answers. (Unless one of us just used them wrong. But there's enough ambiguity and contradictions in the guidelines that I'd almost be surprised if one of us had done it unambiguously incorrectly.)

Actually for at-will or use-activated items the material component is multiplied by 100.
And it's quite debtable to consider the two "similar abilities".
The second price i pulled off was completely made up, i just figured out what would have been a "reasonable" price for me.

[TypoNinja]

Well.

Bless water is a first level spells so 1x1x2000 Plus 50x the expensive material component (25gp of silver) for 1250

So strictly speaking a wondrous item that cast bless water unlimited times would cost you 3250. Course that doesn't get you the water to bless.

We can't just add bless water to a decanter either, because bless water only does a pint a casting, a decanter on its lowest setting spits out 8 times that much, and at maximum spits out 240 times as much, per round and bless water has a 1 minute casting.

This kind of nails you pretty firmly down into "Ask the DM for a ruling" territory, because while there are spells that do what you want, you need to make them between 80 and 2400 times more effective to actually work together.

If you are not trying to get your hands on a Holy Water fire-hose to use on undead and evil Outsiders, and just a quick and easy source of holy water while out and about, you are probably better off trying to merge a unlimited Create Water with an unlimited Bless Water item. Even at 1st level Create Water still spits out 16 times as much water as a single casting of Bless water can convert.

That's relatively cheap, 0.5x1x2000 is 1k, +50% for a non-bodyslot item with unrelated powers, 1500 for the create effect, 3250 for the bless effect. 4750 gets you unlimited Holy Water produced at a rate of one pint per minute.

[docnessuno]

Well.

Bless water is a first level spells so 1x1x2000 Plus 50x the expensive material component (25gp of silver) for 1250

So strictly speaking a wondrous item that cast bless water unlimited times would cost you 3250. Course that doesn't get you the water to bless.

We can't just add bless water to a decanter either, because bless water only does a pint a casting, a decanter on its lowest setting spits out 8 times that much, and at maximum spits out 240 times as much, per round and bless water has a 1 minute casting.

This kind of nails you pretty firmly down into "Ask the DM for a ruling" territory, because while there are spells that do what you want, you need to make them between 8 and 240 times more effective to actually work together.

If you are not trying to get your hands on a Holy Water fire-hose to use on undead and evil Outsiders, and just a quick and easy source of holy water while out and about, you are probably better off trying to merge a unlimited Create Water with an unlimited Bless Water item. Even at 1st level Create Water still spits out 16 times as much water as a single casting of Bless water can convert.

That's relatively cheap, 0.5x1x2000 is 1k, +50% for a non-bodyslot item with unrelated powers, 1500 for the create effect, 3250 for the bless effect. 4750 gets you unlimited Holy Water produced at a rate of one pint per minute.

For use-activated items the casting time is irrelevent, the effect is activated every time the item is "used" (see the infamous 3.0 bow granting true strike on every attack, and since afaik it was not reprinted is technically 3.5 legal).
This is also why DM's intervention in pricing is required.

[TypoNinja]

For use-activated items the casting time is irrelevent, the effect is activated every time the item is "used" (see the infamous 3.0 bow granting true strike on every attack).

Source? I know you get a pass if the item isn't actually casting the spell that is its prerequisite, but since in this case we are actually casting the spell to get us our blessed water.

Also, weapons effects are... iffy. "Use-activate" can include things like swinging the weapon as its activation letting you activate it essentially for no action cost.

[Malimar]

Actually for at-will or use-activated items the material component is multiplied by 100.

Why, so it does, tucked away in a footnote in a different section. That makes my total 27,250gp. (I'd slap a plus or minus of about 10,000 on there. Mostly hinging on how much of an instant win button it winds up being against Undead and Evil Outsiders.)


And it's quite debtable to consider the two "similar abilities".

Hence the need to ask one's DM.

(There are only two examples listed of what is meant by "similar" or "different", and neither shines particularly much light on this particular combination. "Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function" are "not similar", but that doesn't necessarily mean that any given two spell-like functions are "similar" (or how related they have to be to be considered "similar"), so there's really not enough information for a definite conclusion, even if one accepts my contention that the combined function of a Decanter of Endless Holy Water is effectively two spell-like functions.)

[docnessuno]

Source?


Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all.

Activating the "bless water" would be cleary not an action, as it would be part of the action required to activate the whole item.

[Darius Kane]

"Re: how much for a endless holy water decanter?"
Depends. How much do you have?

[TuggyNE]

Mostly hinging on how much of an instant win button it winds up being against Undead and Evil Outsiders.

As a side note, assuming you manage to get "immersion" from the hose, and also extrapolate from "damages undead creatures and evil outsiders almost like acid" to "does ten times as much damage when immersed", you'd get 20d4 per round. Or, as the case may be, you could just use the acid immersion figure of 10d6. Pretty decent against those two foes.

[TypoNinja]

Activating the "bless water" would be cleary not an action, as it would be part of the action required to activate the whole item.

Oh I see, I was thinking "Activating" it counted as casting the spell in it, so you'd then have to wait 1 minute for it to finish casting after you turned it on, rather than activation being the entire of its effects happening.

[toapat]

As a side note, assuming you manage to get "immersion" from the hose, and also extrapolate from "damages undead creatures and evil outsiders almost like acid" to "does ten times as much damage when immersed", you'd get 20d4 per round. Or, as the case may be, you could just use the acid immersion figure of 10d6. Pretty decent against those two foes.

How long would it take to fill Baator with the holy water then?

[silverwolfer]

Holy steam bath?

[Slipperychicken]

Now get an item of continuous/at-will Sacred Item (Clr 4, maybe we can get Empower or Maximize on it) to be cast on innumerable dust flakes (Holy Vacuum Cleaner? Dust Funnel?), and pour those into the holy water (As high a density as you can pack in there) for Massive Damage. Or just make a strategic Holy Fallout device with the particles. Every particle touched is a bright flash of 7d4 positive energy damage.

Safe to say those Demons won't be bothering you much longer.

[Malimar]

How long would it take to fill Baator with the holy water then?

If I recall correctly, each layer of Baator is infinite. So... it would take an infinite amount of time.

Were I DMing this situation, I'd say that any holy water in any of the Lower Planes is gradually leached of its holiness and transformed into regular water, and any regular water left there is gradually infused with vileness and transformed into unholy water. But I doubt there's any RAW support for that.

[Azraile]

ok so i put that all together



Decanter of Endless Holy Water - 1,578,000 gold.

If the stopper is removed from this ordinary-looking flask and a command word spoken, an amount of fresh or salt water pours out. Separate command words determine the type as well as the volume and velocity.

“Stream” pours out 1 gallon per round.
“Fountain” produces a 5-foot-long stream at 5 gallons per round.
“Geyser” produces a 20-foot-long, 1-foot-wide stream at 30 gallons per round.

The geyser effect causes considerable back pressure, requiring the holder to make a DC 12 Strength check to avoid being knocked down. The force of the geyser deals 1d4 points of damage but can only affect one target per round. The command word must be spoken to stop it.

Once every minute the Decanter is capable of producing 30 gallons of holy water. Each gallon of holy water deals 8d6 damage to targets that are damaged by holy water. So..

"Stream" can be used 30 times for 8d6 each that can be spread out among targets
"fountain" can be used 6 times for 40d6 each that can be spread out among targets
"geyser" can be used once for 240d6 that can be spread out among targets

Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, control water, bless water; Price 789,000 gp;Weight 2 lb.



If you wanted one that could be used non stop it would cost even more. x.x

Non stop at "Stream" 3,120,000 gold to buy and 1,578,000 gold to make
non stop at "fountain" 15,600,000 gold to buy and 7,800,000 gold to make
non stop at "geyser" 93,600,000 gold to buy and 46,800,000 gold to make

[Azraile]

ACTUALY

you could make it cheaper

1 create water effect
1 secret chest effect
1 bless water affect

then you have one that works once every 4 hours, taking 4 hours to charge up for the first use.

cost 23,750 market price and 11,875 to make