I wish to improve my party

[Seer_of_Heart]

Right now I'm the only one in the group with any amount of system knowledge beyond core pretty much, I think the DM may have read a bit of libre mortis but that's it. I did give suggestions when building characters but I still don't know very much so I was limited. So I'm looking for suggestions to help improve our characters. We ended off the session leveling up to level 2, however we still have very little money and we haven't formally leveled up. All books allowed and dragon though :smallbiggrin:

Also if you're wondering why we have high stats I'm extremely lucky with stat rolls for some reason :smallbiggrin: and we roll 4d6 and drop the lowest one


Cleric-wishes to be a necromancer/have undead

What I thought to try

at level 3 take the fell drain feat and elevate a level 0 spell to level 2 to get wights under his command, though first he goes back down to level 2 because he becomes a necropolitan.


Race: human

Stats: I'm missing a couple but this is what I remember

Str:
Dex:
Con:
Int:
Wis:18
Cha:18


cleric specific stuff

neutral cleric with a god he is "founding"

spontaneous healing
turn undead
question: Would psychic reformation let him change that to spontaneous inflicting and rebuking undead?--planning on turning him into a necropolitan

domains:
undeath
planning



feats

heighten spell--I'm talking to the dm about removing this one I misinterpreted my explanation so I hope he will let the player switch it out
extra turning
extend spell
persist spell
DMM persist
one more metamagic feat I think maximize spell





factotum- I don't think he particularly wants anything just traps


race: grey elf

Stats: I'm missing a couple but this is what I remember

Str:
Dex:15
Con:
Int:20
Wis:
Cha:


feats

initiate of faerie mysteries
font of inspirationX2


skills I don't have but it isn't too hard with this int amount to pump up skills that are better



Wizard/druid --mine I'm doing a arcane hierophant build-- I took the elf substitution level and my character is a domain wizard


Race: grey elf
Stats:

Str:11
Dex:16
Con:15
Int:20
Wis:18
Cha:13



feats

initiate of faerie mysteries
greenbound summoning
Precocious apprentice


items of note
rust monster tube and amulet of aberation empathy I'm trying to raise rust monster mounts dm approved me raising rust monsters using this
http://community.wizards.com/rumbletiger/blog/?message=WW91ciBwb3N0IGhhcyBub3cgYmVlbiBzdWJtaXR0Z WQh

spell list

Spell list wizard : transmutation domain also

Level 1:

Comprehend Languages: You understand all spoken and
written languages.
Detect Secret Doors: Reveals hidden doors within 60 ft.
Mage Armor: Gives subject +4 armor bonus.
feather fall
disguise self
Summon monster 1
Familiar pocket
Backbiter
cause fear
reduce person
expeditious retreat;

level 2
false life




Any recommendations on what to do for level 2 and future levels?

[Crake]

Honestly, if your group doesn't have much non-core knowledge (and by extension, I'm guessing its not a high optimization game), it might actually be better to instead just stick to core. I know core has some flaws when left on its own, but a huge amount of power creep opens up when you bring in all the other game sources, not to mention book keeping and having to read up on different abilities, if your DM isn't very familiar with non-core rules, it can be a nightmare.

That said, aside from your cleric, the builds themselves are fairly far removed from core (I'm assuming when you said core you mean DMG, PHB and MM, not srd).

Honestly, I've played in a variety of games ranging from all sources available, high optimization to core only, anything non-core must be approved by the DM, and I've had the most fun in the core-only game. That is of course my own personal opinion and ymmv, but if your players are low opt. then it might be better to just let them have fun with it rather than trying to optimize for them and turning the game into a power race.

[Seer_of_Heart]

We do use the srd, but that's because its so much easier than looking up specific things in a book :smallwink:

[Crake]

We do use the srd, but that's because its so much easier than looking up specific things in a book :smallwink:

Fair enough, my point was pick a set of sources you're all familiar and comfortable playing with and limit yourselves to that. As I said, opening up too many sources can turn the game into an escalating power struggle that ends up detracting from the game. Unless your group just enjoys hack and slashing and having a good combat challenge from the DM. You should also maybe find out if the other players want their characters optimized before going ahead and planning their characters for them.

Basically what I'm trying to say is find out how the group wants to run the game before trying to make everyone a super character, sometimes players just want to have fun instead of thinking about whats the best choice.

(Man do I feel like a preachy elitist roleplayer here.)

[Slipperychicken]

Here's my two cents:

Don't give unsolicited character-building advice, beyond maybe asking "hey, do you want some help with that?", and if they say "no", then wash your hands of it and shut the hell up. Most of the time it just makes you look like a self-aggrandizing prick, and/or like you're belittling/marginalizing other people for not pouring weekends into byzantine rules for a game which isn't even in print anymore.

I mean, if someone asks you, or says "I feel like my character is useless", then offering to help make it stronger is a fine thing to do. Then you're perceived as helping your friend, rather than being a tool or trying to impose some bizarre vision of what the game "should" be.

If everyone's happy with their Healbot Clerics, Fireball-spamming Wizards with Toughness, Trap-tossing Rogues, and TWF Rangers, then no worries. It means optimizers like us get to "screw around" with concepts which normally don't work so well (like an insane Viking who beats people to death with his fists like a "real man", or a luchadore grapple-Monk, a Sorcerer who uses nothing but Fire-themed magic, or an improvised weapon master who beats people to death with random objects). Which can sometimes be far more fun than playing a particularly strong/optimal character.

[Seer_of_Heart]

Sorry this is a silly question, but why did you think we did not use the srd? Isn't the srd the same as the dmg+MM+phb except some stuff has been removed?

[Crake]

Sorry this is a silly question, but why did you think we did not use the srd? Isn't the srd the same as the dmg+MM+phb except some stuff has been removed?

SRD encompasses more than just whats in the DMG, MM and PHB. For starters, it includes everything in the XPH. I'm pretty sure it also includes a lot of the class and race variants from different books, epic rules and so on.

[Seer_of_Heart]

:smallredface: Oh yeah, I should have noticed when I saw UA variants in the srd

[AttilaTheGeek]

Here's my two cents:

Don't give unsolicited character-building advice, beyond maybe asking "hey, do you want some help with that?", and if they say "no", then wash your hands of it and shut the hell up.

This. So much this. It can get extremely irritating to be on the receiving end of a "You know what you should do next level? This class, this feat, and these skills. Please, don't be that guy/girl.