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View Full Version : [3.5] Saberhagen's Twelve Swords (major artifacts)



Douglas
2012-12-15, 11:54 PM
Fred Saberhagen created one of the most interesting sets of magic items with clearly artifact-level power I have ever encountered, and I like the idea of using them in a D&D campaign. So, I came up with some stats for them.

Feel free to use these if you want (and please tell me how it goes), though right now I'm more looking for feedback on them. I have all twelve already written up, but I'll be posting one at a time to facilitate discussion.

For these stats, I place far more importance on being faithful to the powers portrayed in the books than in achieving any semblance of game balance. Many of these are ridiculously powerful campaign-breaking items. This is intentional.

Description and general rules:
Each of the twelve Swords is identical in appearance and physical construction, save only for a symbol engraved on the hilt. The craftsmanship is instantly recognizable to anyone who either has seen one before or is versed in Sword lore, though identifying which Sword one is requires observing either its special power in action or the symbol on the hilt. They are all longswords forged from starmetal (Complete Arcane page 141).

The blade of each Sword is a simple one meter straight length of metal, double edged, a centimeter thick in the middle, with a translucent mottled pattern covering its entire surface. Both edges are extremely sharp, and no amount of use or abuse gives them even the slightest scratch. The hilt is a simple black piece with a plain crossbar, and is adorned on one side with a plain white symbol that identifies the specific Sword.

The Swords are incredibly powerful artifacts, and the sheer magnitude of power involved can overwhelm someone who attempts to use more than one at the same time. Any creature who holds two Swords at once must make a will save DC 15 or immediately fall unconscious. Even if he passes, he feels a strange euphoria that disorients and distracts him, imposing a -4 penalty on attack rolls and skill and ability checks unless he succeeded on the will save by 10 or more. Scoring 25 or higher on the will save allows ignoring the sensation well enough to take no penalty. In the rare event of someone acquiring more than two Swords, each additional Sword held, carried, or wielded increases the save DC by 5.

I wrote them up in approximate order of power, from most to least powerful, so the first one is of course:

Shieldbreaker
aka the Sword of Force, or the Widowmaker
Symbol: A hammer
I shatter Swords and splinter spears;
None stands to Shieldbreaker.
My point's the fount of orphan's tears
My edge the widowmaker.
Base stats: +10 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
Shieldbreaker reigns supreme among the Swords. It grants total invulnerability to its wielder, automatically negating all attacks against him with weapons, spells, special abilities, and even the divine powers of deities. Even the other Swords are powerless against this protection. This protection generally uses the same definition of "attack" as the Invisibility spell (except for effects noted as harmless, which are not blocked), though indirect attacks are still blocked at the point where their effects become direct - i.e. collapsing a ceiling on Shieldbreaker's wielder will collapse the ceiling just fine, but Shieldbreaker will destroy or deflect all of the falling rubble before it hits the wielder and may be used to help dig him out afterwards.

In addition, any time Shieldbreaker blocks a weapon attack there is a 50% chance that it sunders the weapon. This automatically destroys the weapon in question, causing an explosion of shrapnel in all directions. For ammunition, this is harmless. Other weapons cause damage in an area around Shieldbreaker's wielder. The area is a burst with radius equal to the width of an appropriately sized wielder's space for the sundered weapon, centered on the edge of Shieldbreaker's wielder's space nearest the attacker. Light weapons deal a base 1d6 damage, one-handed deal base 2d6 damage, and two-handed or double weapons deal 4d6 damage. These values are for medium weapons, and scale up or down using the weapon size damage table as appropriate. In each case, the damage is piercing and slashing, allows a reflex save DC 20 for half damage, and applies any bonuses from the sundered weapon's magical properties. Bonuses to attack rolls from the sundered weapon increase the save DC by the same amount instead. Shieldbreaker's wielder is never harmed by this.

When Shieldbreaker blocks a natural weapon attack, if the sunder effect triggers it deals damage to the attacker instead of causing explosive destruction. If the natural weapon has a special clause for sundering it, such as with a hydra's heads, treat this as a sunder attempt using that clause. If not, treat this as a normal attack against the attacker. In either case, Shieldbreaker is automatically successful, does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and deals damage as per a normal (non-critical) hit.

There is no limit to how many times Shieldbreaker can destroy a weapon or damage a natural attacker per round.

Shieldbreaker is also the ultimate offensive weapon. It grants four iterative attacks (as a Fighter 20) regardless of the wielder's BAB, and every attack with it is automatically a hit and critical hit. Shieldbreaker automatically bypasses all damage reduction, even DR/-. If the target of an attack with Shieldbreaker has a weapon or shield in hand, there is a 50% chance that Shieldbreaker will sunder the item (choose one randomly if the defender has multiple weapons and/or shields), with an explosion of shrapnel as above.

As if that were not enough, Shieldbreaker also augments the wielder's strength as combat goes on. Each round that Shieldbreaker is wielded in combat (either blocking a weapon attack or attacking), its wielder gains a +1 untyped bonus to strength-based rolls (including attack and damage rolls) that lasts until the threat is gone. This bonus only applies to actions that use Shieldbreaker, but stacks with itself without limit.

Shieldbreaker also cannot be disarmed.
Weakness:
Shieldbreaker's fatal flaw is that it is incapable of harming unarmed foes. Any creature that wields no weapon, either manufactured or natural, takes no damage from Shieldbreaker's attacks and can use unarmed attacks against its wielder without being blocked. Attacks that count as armed only because of training, such as from Improved Unarmed Strike or the Monk class, still count as unarmed for Shieldbreaker. If a creature is unarmed only because Shieldbreaker sundered his weapon, it still counts as armed for the attack that sundered the weapon and therefore still takes damage from it; future attacks will fail as normal for an unarmed target, even later iteratives in the same full attack. A creature that is currently capable of casting a spell or spell-like ability that Shieldbreaker would block counts as armed.

To make this worse, it is difficult to either use other weapons in conjunction with Shieldbreaker or to stop using Shieldbreaker once combat has begun. Shieldbreaker always counts as the primary weapon for two-weapon or multi-weapon fighting penalties regardless of the wielder's desires, and the wielder takes a penalty for all strength-based rolls in actions not using Shieldbreaker equal to the bonus he gets for actions using Shieldbreaker. Sheathing, dropping, or otherwise attempting to voluntarily cease wielding Shieldbreaker, or to attack with non-weapon means, requires a will save DC 20 plus the bonus to strength-based rolls Shieldbreaker is currently granting. Shieldbreaker's effect on strength, both positive and negative, can be prevented from increasing with a will save DC 15 plus the current bonus. Once combat is over, defined as after five consecutive rounds where the wielder does not perceive any imminent hostile threat and Shieldbreaker does not block anything, the strength modifiers end and Shieldbreaker can be sheathed or dropped normally.

Shieldbreaker will always seek to destroy its enemies, potentially ruining more sophisticated plans by its wielder. If an enemy is within reach at the start of Shieldbreaker's wielder's turn, and he does not want to attack that enemy, he must make a will save DC 15 plus the current bonus to strength-based rolls. If this will save fails, he must make at least one attack with Shieldbreaker against an enemy within reach that turn.
Interactions with other Swords:
All: None of the other Swords can defeat Shieldbreaker's defense.
Doomgiver: Attacks made by Shieldbreaker's wielder are not reflected, even attacks with weapons other than Shieldbreaker. In direct combat, Doomgiver is treated the same as any other weapon for Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Coinspinner: Shieldbreaker negates the effect of Coinspinner's luck against Shieldbreaker's wielder. Die rolls are unmodified, and convenient coincidences happen no more often than usual for either side. Coinspinner has a 50% chance of teleporting to a new wielder instead if Shieldbreaker would sunder it, but is otherwise treated the same as any other weapon for Shieldbreaker's sundering ability. If Coinspinner teleports away, its ex-wielder counts as unarmed (assuming he has no other weapons in hand) for that attack, unlike the normal situation when Shieldbreaker sunders a weapon.
The Mindsword: Shieldbreaker's wielder is completely immune to the Mindsword's power, and the Mindsword has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Farslayer: Shieldbreaker will sunder Farslayer just the same as any other attacking weapon, even if Farslayer is in full flight with its special power. In fact, if Farslayer's special power is targeted on Shieldbreaker's wielder, Shieldbreaker will automatically sunder Farslayer rather than merely having a 50% chance to do so.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder is powerless against Shieldbreaker. Shieldbreaker's wielder sees Sightblinder's wielder as he actually is regardless of any magical disguise, and all aspects of Sightblinder's perceptive powers fail against Shieldbreaker. Shieldbreaker's wielder can even use mind-affecting spells against Sightblinder, and they will work as normal, ignoring Sightblinder's immunity. Sightblinder has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Soulcutter: Shieldbreaker's wielder is immune to Soulcutter's effect, and can safely spend any amount of time in the area without gaining any apathy levels. This is true even if Shieldbreaker's wielder is the same as Soulcutter's wielder; indeed, dual wielding Shieldbreaker and Soulcutter is one of the few ways to safely use Soulcutter as an offensive weapon. Soulcutter has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Townsaver: Townsaver has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Dragonslicer: Dragonslicer has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Stonecutter: Stonecutter has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Wayfinder: Shieldbreaker prevents Wayfinder from guiding its wielder on any path inimical to Shieldbreaker's wielder, and prevents Wayfinder from divining anything about Shieldbreaker's wielder unless Wayfinder's wielder is friendly. Wayfinder has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Woundhealer: If Shieldbreaker strikes a living creature that is being healed by Woundhealer, Shieldbreaker is destroyed as if by its own sundering ability. In all other cases, Woundhealer has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability. Shieldbreaker will not register a swing with Woundhealer as an attack, however, unless Shieldbreaker's wielder is a construct or undead.
Destruction:
Shieldbreaker can only be destroyed by using it to attack someone who is at that moment being healed by Woundhealer.

Doomgiver
aka the Sword of Justice
Symbol: A hollow circle
The Sword of Justice balances the pans
Of right and wrong, and foul and fair.
Eye for an eye, Doomgiver scans
The fate of all folk everywhere.
Base stats: +9 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
Doomgiver is second among the Swords, though if not in direct confrontation with Shieldbreaker it may actually be considered the superior weapon. It grants even more comprehensive invulnerability than Shieldbreaker, turns attacks back on their originators rather than merely negating them, and lacks Shieldbreaker's fatal flaw.

Any hostile act, even an indirect one, taken against Doomgiver's wielder is reflected against the attacker. Swords strike their wielders, arrows reverse course in mid flight, spells rebound on their casters, and so on. Even divine abilities of deities are affected. In each case, resolve the attack with the attacker's normal offensive modifiers, opposed by his own defenses. Intent is crucial to this ability, and Doomgiver has a far broader interpretation of "attack" than Shieldbreaker. The degree of directness or indirectness of an attack is irrelevant to Doomgiver; all it cares about is whether an action is intended to be detrimental to its wielder. If the attack has an effect relative to who makes it, treat Doomgiver's wielder as the attacker - for example, Dominate Person would force the caster to save or be dominated by his would-be victim.

An ally could scry on Doomgiver's wielder with no difficulty, while an enemy attempting the same would find Doomgiver's wielder is scrying him instead. An ally held captive and forced to scry for an enemy would get the same result as the enemy, being scryed by his target. Someone casting invisibility to sneak past Doomgiver's wielder with the intent of stealing from him would find that the spell affected Doomgiver's wielder instead. The same person, if planning to kill someone Doomgiver's wielder hates instead, would have his spell work normally. For perhaps the ultimate example of indirectness, someone attempting to starve Doomgiver's wielder by acquiring and taking away all the food in the area - without ever actually getting near Doomgiver - would find that he himself is starving while Doomgiver's wielder is full.

This may require a lot of DM judgment calls, but the primary principles are that a) the action to be reflected must be directed against Doomgiver's wielder (not his friends or allies - unless the intention is to use them to get at him), b) the action being against him must be deliberate (though not necessarily with knowledge of who he is or what he has - Fireballing a group of anonymous peasants to get them out of the way still qualifies if one of the peasants has Doomgiver), and c) Doomgiver should alter the effect only by changing the target and source.
Weakness:
The only significant hole in Doomgiver's protection is in the nature of its power - the power to swap target and source. If an attack harms both the target and the source, one or the other effect will get through. Usually Doomgiver will reflect the attack, and Doomgiver's wielder will suffer the effects that the attacker would normally take. Doomgiver's wielder may choose to not reflect such an attack, however, trusting to his other defenses to block it. Area effects that happen to have been positioned to hit the attacker are not sufficient to trigger this condition. The attack must specifically harm the attacker.

Doomgiver's protection also does not work on hostile acts that have no hostile intent. If someone genuinely believes that what he is doing is not detrimental to those affected by it, Doomgiver will not stop him. This is more of a reason to avoid misguided fools than an exploitable weakness, however, as attempts to exploit it by deliberately manipulating someone into becoming a well-meaning hindrance merely result in Doomgiver considering the manipulator to be the origin of the attack.
Interactions with other Swords:
Shieldbreaker: Doomgiver cannot reflect attacks made by Shieldbreaker's wielder, whether the attacks are made with Shieldbreaker or not. Doomgiver has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Coinspinner: If Coinspinner and Doomgiver come into conflict Coinspinner's luck is transferred to Doomgiver's wielder, but only for the interactions between the two of them. Other participants in the conflict are affected by Coinspinner's luck as normal.
The Mindsword: If Doomgiver's wielder is in range when the Mindsword is drawn, or enters range later, the Mindsword's wielder instantly becomes fanatically loyal to Doomgiver's wielder (subject to will saves vs the Mindsword). Typically, he will immediately approach and offer to give the Mindsword as tribute.
Farslayer: If Farslayer is launched at Doomgiver's wielder, it will promptly turn around and kill its own wielder instead.
Sightblinder: Doomgiver's wielder ignores Sightblinder's powers as fully as Shieldbreaker does, and in addition causes Sightblinder's wielder to view Doomgiver's wielder as if he had Sightblinder instead. Doomgiver's wielder is disguised as per Sightblinder's power, but only with respect to Sightblinder's wielder - all other creatures see Doomgiver's wielder as normal. Doomgiver's wielder also gains Sightblinder's perception powers, but only with respect to Sightblinder's wielder.
Soulcutter: In a conventional confrontation, Doomgiver will not protect against Soulcutter at all due to Soulcutter harming its own wielder more than anyone else. If Soulcutter is in an ally's hand due to enemy manipulation, however, Doomgiver will reflect the entire effect upon the manipulator (including the 1000' aura, centered on the manipulator).
Townsaver: Townsaver's attacks against Doomgiver's wielder will be reflected, dealing automatic critical hit damage to Townsaver's wielder (if Townsaver's special power is active).
Dragonslicer: Doomgiver can reflect Dragonslicer's attacks just like any other weapon, even if Doomgiver's wielder is a dragon - though in that case the reflected attack will be rather less potent due to not getting the anti-dragon bonuses.
Stonecutter: Doomgiver has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Doomgiver prevents Wayfinder from guiding its wielder on any path inimical to Doomgiver's wielder, and prevents Wayfinder from divining anything about Doomgiver's wielder unless Wayfinder's wielder is friendly. If Wayfinder's wielder has chosen a goal deliberately hostile to Doomgiver's wielder, Doomgiver will cause Wayfinder to guide him on a counterproductive path, typically aimed at resulting in Doomgiver's wielder personally turning the tables on him.
Woundhealer: Doomgiver will not prevent Woundhealer from healing anyone, and will only reflect Woundhealer's attacks if Doomgiver's wielder is a construct or undead.
Destruction:
Doomgiver can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Coinspinner
aka the Sword of Chance, or the Sword of Fortune
Symbol: A pair of dice
Who holds Coinspinner knows good odds
Whichever move he make.
But the Sword of Chance, to please the gods
Slips from him like a snake.
Base stats: +8 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
Coinspinner grants incredible luck to its owner. Every die rolled for Coinspinner's wielder is treated as if the natural die result were higher by half the maximum value of the die, subject to the die's normal maximum. For example, any attack roll or saving throw of 10 or higher is treated as a natural 20 (and therefore an automatic success), while a natural 1 is treated as if it were 11 - both increasing the chance of beating the DC and avoiding the natural 1 automatic failure rule. Damage from a Fireball, meanwhile, would have each die increased by 3 to a maximum of 6. Anyone making a roll directly against him suffers the opposite, a reduction on each die equal to half its maximum value. Incidentally, this allows the character to take 20 on skill and ability checks in the time normally required to take 10.

If for any reason this effect is undesirable, the wielder may choose to reduce, negate, or even reverse it.

Coinspinner's luck extends far beyond the wielder's own capabilities into the world around him. Convenient coincidences happen with extreme frequency near Coinspinner, even to the extent of events such as the first earthquake in an area in a thousand years happening at precisely the right time to throw a combat opponent off balance or break open the walls of a prison cell. This works for both helping the wielder and hindering his foes; for example, if Coinspinner's wielder is chasing someone, he can reliably depend on his quarry being slowed to a crawl by a long series of contrived circumstances. The DM should be extremely generous in interpretation of this ability - this effect is so powerful as to be at least on par with the die roll modification ability, and is often considered Coinspinner's most important power.

Additionally, Coinspinner can guide its wielder to any location or object the wielder specifies by pointing on demand. If special means are required to get there it will not point these out unless specifically sought, however, and this is a lesser power of the Sword so it can be blocked by normal countermeasures. This is treated as a divination (scrying) effect with caster level 20, and any rolls involved have Coinspinner's luck applied.
Weakness:
Coinspinner's luck is fickle, and it will not stay with any one master for long. Each day, there is a 5% chance that Coinspinner will randomly teleport to a new wielder when its current wielder isn't looking. When this happens, there is a chance of 1% per day the current wielder had it that it will teleport to one of his enemies or rivals rather than a completely random recipient. This teleportation cannot be stopped by any means, not even the powers of a deity.
Interactions with other Swords:
Shieldbreaker: All of Coinspinner's special powers are negated when they would be detrimental to Shieldbreaker's wielder, though Shieldbreaker cannot prevent Coinspinner from teleporting to a new wielder. If Coinspinner would be sundered by Shieldbreaker, there is a 50% chance that it will teleport to a new wielder before the blow lands. If this fails, Coinspinner has no other special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability. If Coinspinner's wielder was wielding no other weapon (and has no natural weapons) at the time Coinspinner teleported away in response to Shieldbreaker, the teleport happens soon enough that Coinspinner's ex-wielder is considered unarmed when the attack lands and therefore will not be hurt.
Doomgiver: If Coinspinner and Doomgiver come into conflict Coinspinner's luck is transferred to Doomgiver's wielder, but only for the interactions between the two of them. Other participants in the conflict are affected by Coinspinner's luck as normal.
The Mindsword: Coinspinner's wielder is highly likely to roll natural 20s on the saves to temporarily resist the Mindsword's influence, but will eventually inevitably succumb if the Mindsword can be brought to bear. This is unlikely to ever be relevant, however, as the Mindsword's wielder will find it exceptionally difficult to draw his Sword while Coinspinner is in range. An endless series of coincidental difficulties are almost certain to delay the Mindsword's drawing long enough for Coinspinner's wielder to get out of range. If the Mindsword is already drawn, Coinspinner's luck will bring similar measures to bear to prevent it from coming into range.
Farslayer: If there is any reasonable target for Farslayer's wielder to consider other than Coinspinner's wielder (DM's judgment), Coinspinner will cause him to choose an alternative target instead.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder can fool Coinspinner's wielder, but not Coinspinner itself. Coinspinner's luck will function according to the true state of affairs, whatever its wielder believes is happening.
Soulcutter: Soulcutter's wielder will find it difficult to draw the Sword when Coinspinner is in range, in similar fashion to the contrived difficulties Coinspinner will exert against drawing the Mindsword, but there is no other special interaction between these two Swords.
Townsaver: Townsaver's automatic hit and crit confirm power bypasses Coinspinner's effect on die rolls, but there is no other special interaction between these two.
Dragonslicer: Coinspinner has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Coinspinner has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: If Wayfinder's wielder's quest would be detrimental to Coinspinner's wielder and there is a reasonable alternative he might choose (DM's judgment), Coinspinner will cause Wayfinder's wielder to choose a different quest.
Woundhealer: Coinspinner has no special interaction with Woundhealer.
Destruction:
Coinspinner can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker. However, any attempt to do so has a 50% chance of causing Coinspinner to immediately teleport to a new wielder before the blow lands.

The Mindsword
aka the Sword of Glory, Skulltwister, or the Sword of Madness
Symbol: A flying banner
The Mindsword spun in the dawn's gray light
And men and demons knelt down before.
The Mindsword flashed in the midday bright
Gods joined the dance, and the march to war.
It spun in the twilight dim as well
And gods and men marched off to hell.
Base stats: +8 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
The Mindsword inspires total obedience and loyalty to its wielder in all creatures within a large area. When it is drawn, everyone within a 1000' radius (regardless of line of sight and line of effect) instantly has their attitude towards the wielder changed to fanatic, as per the epic diplomacy rules, including the morale bonuses granted. As a side effect of this, everyone within range instantly becomes aware of the wielder's presence and identity. A successful will save DC 30 can delay this change for 1 round, but the save must be repeated each round, takes a full round action to even attempt, and the DC increases by 1 for each round after the first. This is a mind-affecting effect, but immunity only grants a +10 bonus on the save and reduces the effort required to a standard action per round.

The Mindsword's wielder gains the morale bonuses of fanaticism, but without the accompanying attitude change.

Victims who are aware of the Mindsword's power and that it has been used on them are convinced, despite all prior knowledge and evidence to the contrary, that in this particular case the Mindsword merely revealed its wielder's worthiness rather than having its normal domination effect.

The Mindsword's influence is impervious to diplomacy, bluff, and even the most potent of spells - even Dominate spells cannot force someone affected by the Mindsword to act against its wielder or disobey his commands. Nothing but the passage of time or the powers of other Swords can affect it. The attitude and loyalty caused by the Mindsword last for 5 days plus 1 day per point of the wielder's charisma bonus, and then degrade by 1 step per day until they reach the subject's original attitude. Immunity to mind-affecting abilities cuts each of these times in half, making the reversion both start earlier and progress faster. Repeated exposure to the Mindsword resets the duration.

In addition, wounds from the Mindsword are difficult to heal and cause gradually increasing delirium. Healing magic used on such wounds fails unless the caster succeeds on a DC 25 caster level check, and the victim takes 1d4 wisdom damage immediately on being wounded and another 1d4 wisdom damage every 10 minutes thereafter. Each instance of wisdom damage can be prevented by a DC 25 fortitude save, but the recurring damage does not stop until 5 (not necessarily consecutive) successful saves are made or the wound is healed.
Weakness:
None, really. The only good counters to the Mindsword are staying out of range or using certain specific other Swords.
Interactions with other Swords:
Shieldbreaker: Shieldbreaker's wielder is completely immune to the Mindsword's power, and the Mindsword has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: If Doomgiver's wielder is in range when the Mindsword is drawn, the Mindsword's wielder instantly becomes fanatically loyal to Doomgiver's wielder (subject to will saves vs the Mindsword). Typically, he will immediately approach and offer to give the Mindsword as tribute.
Coinspinner: Coinspinner's wielder is highly likely to roll natural 20s on the saves to temporarily resist the Mindsword's influence, but will eventually inevitably succumb if the Mindsword can be brought to bear. This is unlikely to ever be relevant, however, as the Mindsword's wielder will find it exceptionally difficult to draw his Sword while Coinspinner is in range. An endless series of coincidental difficulties are almost certain to delay the Mindsword's drawing long enough for Coinspinner's wielder to get out of range. If the Mindsword is already drawn, Coinspinner's luck will bring similar measures to bear to prevent it from coming into range.
Farslayer: The Mindsword has no special interaction with Farslayer. If Farslayer is aimed at the Mindsword's wielder (almost certainly from beyond the Mindsword's domination range), it will slay him just the same as any other target.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder's immunity to mind-affecting effects functions just as any other such immunity against the Mindsword, granting a +10 bonus on saves to resist the Mindsword, reducing the effort required to a standard action per round, and reducing the duration of the Mindsword's domination.
Soulcutter: The Mindsword's wielder and his followers are buffered slightly against Soulcutter's effect by the morale bonuses of their fanaticism. None of them will actually take an apathy level until those bonuses have been cancelled by an earlier apathy level. The attitude adjustment persists even in the absence of the bonuses, however. The Mindsword's wielder himself has slight additional protection against Soulcutter - when he would gain the final apathy level to equal his hit dice and force giving up in despair, he is instead forced to flee. While fleeing, he can take no actions other than to better enable his retreat. This continues until he is outside Soulcutter's area of effect, at which point he regains full control (though still afflicted with apathy levels one short of his hit dice total). Soulcutter also buffers against the Mindsword, however; pre-existing loyalty conversions are not affected, but anyone inside Soulcutter's area of effect cannot be converted by the Mindsword.
Townsaver: When actively defending noncombatants, Townsaver's wielder is immune to the Mindsword's domination. He is liable to find his charges pouring out to gleefully surrender and pledge their loyalty, however, and once they have all abandoned his shelter Townsaver will deactivate.
Dragonslicer: The Mindsword has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: The Mindsword has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: The Mindsword has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Woundhealer: Woundhealer can instantly reverse the mental domination of the Mindsword, and grants immunity to the Mindsword's special powers to anyone Woundhealer is impaled in.
Destruction:
The Mindsword can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Farslayer
aka the Sword of Vengeance
Symbol: Several concentric circles forming a bullseye or target
Farslayer howls across the world
For thy heart, for thy heart, who hast wronged me!
Vengeance is his who casts the blade
Yet he will in the end no triumph see.
Base stats: +7 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
Farslayer can seek out and slay any foe, no matter how distant or powerful. The wielder simply has to identify the target and release the Sword. It is traditional, though not necessary, to quote the second line of Farslayer's verse before launching it.

To use Farslayer's special power, the wielder must speak aloud the identity of the target and then either throw or drop the Sword. Doing this is a standard action. The target's name is sufficient identification, even if there are many people with the same name - Farslayer will strike according to the wielder's intent. Any other description that is reasonably specific will also do, even if the wielder does not know precisely who he is identifying - "the newest guard in that bastard's army" would work, however poor a choice in might be.

Once launched, Farslayer flies at a speed of one mile per round, directly toward its target. If the target is on another plane, Farslayer will Plane Shift itself to the appropriate plane (arriving 5d100 miles off target) one round after it is launched. If the target travels to another plane while Farslayer is in flight, Farslayer will Plane Shift to follow him one round later.

Farslayer knows its target's location perfectly at all times no matter what anti-divination measures might be in place, even if a god is trying to hide the target. Once in flight, no barrier or defensive measure of any kind short of another Sword can stop Farslayer. It will pass through any barrier as if the barrier were not there, and any attempt to stop, slow, or change the Sword's flight path automatically fails. If Plane Shifting is necessary to reach the target, anti-teleportation effects are similarly ineffective in stopping Farslayer. When it arrives, Farslayer strikes its target perfectly, slaying him instantly (no save). Further, any means of automatic revival the target might have are also destroyed. If aimed at a lich, Farslayer will hit the lich and then immediately move on to strike the phylactery. Physical objects involved in such things are targeted physically in turn after the primary target is slain, while intangible effects such as a Contingent Revivify simply vanish.

Whoever Farslayer is aimed at is. going. to. die. promptly. And stay dead, at least until resurrected by someone else. Even a deity, if named as Farslayer's target, will die. The protection offered by certain other Swords is the only exception.
Weakness:
Farslayer's major problem is that it stays in the corpse of whatever it kills. Its ownership will then pass to whoever retrieves it from the corpse. It is quite possible, and even likely, for a friend of the victim to pull the Sword out and immediately throw it right back at "whoever threw Farslayer last". This can result in a vicious cycle, quickly decimating both sides in a feud.
Interactions with other Swords:
Shieldbreaker: Farslayer can be launched at Shieldbreaker's wielder, but it will be sundered on arrival (guaranteed, not the normal 50% chance), doing no harm to Shieldbreaker's wielder. Farslayer has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: Launching Farslayer at Doomgiver's wielder is a somewhat elaborate method of committing suicide. Farslayer will launch, fly a short distance, reverse course, and strike its own wielder dead in less than a second.
Coinspinner: If there is any reasonable target for Farslayer's wielder to consider other than Coinspinner's wielder (DM's judgment), Coinspinner will cause him to choose an alternative target instead.
The Mindsword: Farslayer has no special interaction with the Mindsword. If launched at the Mindsword's wielder (almost certainly from outside the Mindsword's mental control range), Farslayer will kill him just the same as any other target.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder's disguise can trick Farslayer's wielder into identifying the wrong target, but Farslayer itself will seek the identified target correctly regardless of any disguise. If Farslayer's wielder names the true identity of Sightblinder's wielder, or identifies him in a way that is independent of his diguise, then Farslayer will seek him out and kill him just as any other target. If Farslayer's wielder launches it at the creature he believes Sightblinder's wielder to be, however, Farslayer will instead seek out and slay the actual creature in question.
Soulcutter: Soulcutter has no special interaction with Farslayer.
Townsaver: If Townsaver is fully active when Farslayer strikes Townsaver's wielder, Townsaver will keep him alive until the end of battle. If he receives sufficient healing before combat ends, this may be enough to save him.
Dragonslicer: Farslayer has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Farslayer has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Farslayer has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Woundhealer: If Farslayer's target is already impaled by Woundhealer, or if Woundhealer is used within one round, Woundhealer can save Farslayer's victim. Woundhealer's wielder will even get a new Sword out of the experience - nothing stops him from plucking Farslayer out of the non-corpse it's stuck in.
Destruction:
Farslayer can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Sightblinder
aka the Sword of Stealth, or the Sword of Deception
Symbol: A stylized human eye
The Sword of Stealth is given to
One lowly and despised.
Sightblinder's gifts: his eyes are keen
His nature is disguised.
Base stats: +7 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
Sightblinder grants perfect disguise and extreme powers of perception.

Sightblinder projects an impenetrable illusion, covering all senses, over its wielder. If the wielder knows of Sightblinder's powers, he can influence the choice of disguise. If he has a specific disguise in mind, Sightblinder will use it. Failing that, if he at least has a specific purpose he wants to use his disguise for, Sightblinder will choose one suitable for it. Sightblinder will maintain the same disguise consistently for as long as is needed.

Lacking such guidance, Sightblinder will fall back on one of two options, chosen randomly: the appearance of something terrifying, or the appearance of something to be loved and/or protected. Either way, this will draw a lot of attention from everyone in sight. In combat and other moments of stress without guidance from its wielder, Sightblinder will shift rapidly between different disguises, rolling for a new disguise once per round.

If Sightblinder is disguising its wielder as something terrifying, anyone who sees him sees an incredibly powerful and fearsome foe. Sightblinder only uses the appearance of monsters that actually exist, not nightmares from the viewer's imagination, but it will infallibly present an image of the most powerful and implacably hostile creature that the viewer can recognize (however vaguely). If the viewer fails a will save DC 30, he is panicked for 2d6 rounds. If the viewer knows he is facing Sightblinder, the save DC is reduced to 20. Even on a successful save, the viewer may believe the apparition is real if there is no evidence to the contrary and will act accordingly.

If Sightblinder is using its other default method of disguise, anyone who sees its wielder sees something worthy of protection or, alternatively, of obedience. A small child, an innocent woman, a relative or loved one, and a noble lord or high-ranking officer are common choices, though Sightblinder customizes the presented appearance for the morals and values of the viewer. If the viewer has no reason to suspect something is not as it appears, he takes any reasonable measures to protect and aid Sightblinder's wielder.

In all cases, the disguise is flawless. Inconsistencies in behavior (especially if the disguise is a close family member of the viewer), prior knowledge of Sightblinder's presence, and other such things can spoil it, but the actual illusion Sightblinder presents is perfect and cannot be defeated by Spot checks, True Seeing, divination magic in general, or any similar means. Sense Motive could determine something is wrong, but only if Sightblinder's wielder takes actions that are out of character for his current disguise. Even then, Sightblinder grants a +10 bonus on the opposed Bluff check.

Sightblinder can present the same image to all viewers or a different one for each, even with completely different kinds of disguises, with equal ease and perfection. If necessary, Sightblinder can augment its disguise by producing fake dialog and the appearance of actions that have no effect outside of the wielder, though it will limit all such additions to merely allaying short term suspicion - Sightblinder will not, for example, spin elaborate plots with orders for subordinates when disguising its wielder as a spy master. Sightblinder itself can be clearly visible as a Sword, disguised as another weapon, or even invisible, whichever best suits the current disguise. Sightblinder can also leave its wielder undisguised in the view of any of his allies if desired, while simultaneously disguising him against everyone else.

On the perception side of things, Sightblinder grants continuous True Seeing with unlimited range. It also allows its wielder to automatically know the alignment of any creature he sees, grants a +20 bonus on knowledge checks concerning any creature in sight (and makes all knowledge skills count as trained for this purpose), automatically detects lies, and grants a +20 bonus on Spot and Sense Motive checks. No anti-divination protections of any kind can defeat this augmented perception.

In addition, Sightblinder's knowledge of the true nature of things shields its wielder's mind from manipulation. Sightblinder's wielder is immune to all mind-affecting spells and effects.
Weakness:
Sightblinder has no special weaknesses.
Interactions with other Swords:
Shieldbreaker: Sightblinder is powerless against Shieldbreaker. Shieldbreaker's wielder sees Sightblinder's wielder as he actually is regardless of any magical disguise, and all aspects of Sightblinder's perceptive powers fail against Shieldbreaker. Shieldbreaker's wielder can even use mind-affecting spells against Sightblinder, and they will work as normal, ignoring Sightblinder's immunity. Sightblinder has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: Doomgiver's wielder ignores Sightblinder's powers as fully as Shieldbreaker does, and in addition causes Sightblinder's wielder to view Doomgiver's wielder as if he had Sightblinder instead. Doomgiver's wielder is disguised as per Sightblinder's power, but only with respect to Sightblinder's wielder - all other creatures see Doomgiver's wielder as normal. Doomgiver's wielder also gains Sightblinder's perception powers, but only with respect to Sightblinder's wielder.
Coinspinner: Coinspinner's wielder can be fooled by Sightblinder, but Coinspinner itself cannot. Coinspinner's luck will function according to the true state of affairs, whatever its wielder believes is happening.
The Mindsword: Sightblinder's immunity to mind-affecting effects functions just as any other such immunity against the Mindsword, granting a +10 bonus on saves to resist the Mindsword, reducing the effort required to a standard action per round, and reducing the duration of the Mindsword's domination.
Farslayer: If Farslayer's identified target is the true identity of Sightblinder's wielder, or if the identification is independent of the true and assumed identities, then Farslayer is not fooled and seeks him out just as any other target. If Farslayer is launched at a specific creature who Sightblinder's wielder is disguised as, Farslayer will instead seek out and slay the actual creature in question.
Soulcutter: Sightblinder's immunity to mind-affecting effects grants substantial resistance to Soulcutter as normal.
Townsaver: Sightblinder can fool Townsaver's wielder, but not Townsaver itself. Attempting to sneak past with Sightblinder, intending to attack those Townsaver is defending, will result in Townsaver taking an attack of opportunity against Sightblinder's wielder regardless of Townsaver's wielder's perceptions.
Dragonslicer: Sightblinder cannot fool Dragonslicer about whether a particular target is a dragon or not.
Stonecutter: Sightblinder has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Sightblinder can fool Wayfinder's wielder, but not Wayfinder itself.
Woundhealer: Woundhealer can end the panic Sightblinder can cause, but has no other special interaction with Sightblinder.
Destruction:
Sightblinder can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Douglas
2012-12-15, 11:55 PM
Soulcutter
aka the Sword of Despair, or the Tyrant's Blade
Symbol: None. Soulcutter's hilt is blank.
The Tyrant's Blade no blood hath spilled
But doth the spirit carve
Soulcutter hath no body killed
But many left to starve.
Base stats: +7 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
Soulcutter induces despair and apathy in everyone nearby, causing all activity to cease and everyone to simply lie in place, immobile and uncaring.

When Soulcutter is drawn, all creatures within a 1000' radius (regardless of line of sight and line of effect) gain apathy levels at a rate of one per round. Apathy levels have the same effect as negative levels with the following exceptions:

Apathy levels ignore all resistances and immunities to negative levels that any victim might have.
Apathy levels require a will save instead of a fortitude save to remove normally (after 24 hours). The save DC is 20.
If a creature has a number of apathy levels, or combined apathy and negative levels, equal to its hit dice, it drops anything it is holding, collapses prone to the ground, and remains there, helpless and taking no actions instead of dying. A creature can have more apathy levels than hit dice, but the excess do not impose any penalties and only count for how many morale effects would be required to counteract them.
Immunity to mind-affecting effects grants some resistance to apathy levels, allowing a will save DC 30 to avoid each one when it would initially be gained. There is normally no save until 24 hours later. Attempting this save is optional, and costs a standard action from the victim's next turn.
Apathy levels can be mitigated by morale effects. Each spell or effect that grants a morale bonus to a victim of Soulcutter temporarily negates one apathy level instead of granting its usual bonuses. Any penalties, non-morale bonuses, or other effects remain, and when the morale effect ends the apathy level returns.
Weakness:
Soulcutter's wielder is not exempt from the Sword's effect. In fact, the wielder gains two apathy levels per round instead of one due to his extreme proximity to the blade. Thus, in normal circumstances Soulcutter is at best a weapon of mutual destruction.
Interactions with other Swords:
Shieldbreaker: Shieldbreaker's wielder is immune to Soulcutter's effect, and can safely spend any amount of time in the area without gaining any apathy levels. This is true even if Shieldbreaker's wielder is the same as Soulcutter's wielder; indeed, dual wielding Shieldbreaker and Soulcutter is one of the few ways to safely use Soulcutter as an offensive weapon. Soulcutter has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: In a conventional confrontation, Soulcutter will ignore Doomgiver's protection due to Soulcutter harming its own wielder more than anyone else. If Soulcutter is in an ally's hand due to enemy manipulation, however, Doomgiver will reflect the entire effect upon the manipulator (including the 1000' aura, centered on the manipulator).
Coinspinner: Soulcutter's wielder will find it difficult to draw the Sword when Coinspinner is in range, in similar fashion to the contrived difficulties Coinspinner will exert against drawing the Mindsword, but there is no other special interaction between these two Swords.
The Mindsword: The Mindsword's wielder and his followers are buffered slightly against Soulcutter's effect by the morale bonuses of their fanaticism. None of them will actually take an apathy level until those bonuses have been cancelled by an earlier apathy level. The attitude adjustment persists even in the absence of the bonuses, however. The Mindsword's wielder himself has slight additional protection against Soulcutter - when he would gain the final apathy level to equal his hit dice and force giving up in despair, he is instead forced to flee. While fleeing, he can take no actions other than to better enable his retreat. This continues until he is outside Soulcutter's area of effect, at which point he regains full control (though still afflicted with apathy levels one short of his hit dice total). Soulcutter also buffers against the Mindsword, however; pre-existing loyalty conversions are not affected, but anyone inside Soulcutter's area of effect cannot be converted by the Mindsword.
Farslayer: Farslayer has no special interaction with Soulcutter.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder's immunity to mind-affecting effects grants substantial resistance to Soulcutter as normal.
Townsaver: If Townsaver is fully active, it will prevent its wielder from collapsing in despair from too many apathy levels. It will not prevent acquiring the apathy levels in the first place, however, so he will most likely collapse as soon as combat ends.
Dragonslicer: Soulcutter has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Soulcutter has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Soulcutter has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Woundhealer: Woundhealer's Greater Restoration ability cures apathy levels along with any negative levels.
Destruction:
Soulcutter can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Townsaver
aka the Sword of Fury
Symbol: A sword raised above a stylized segment of castle wall
Long roads the Sword of Fury makes
Hard walls it builds around the soft
The fighter who Townsaver takes
Can bid farewell to home and croft
Base stats: +7 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
In most circumstances Townsaver is merely a normal magic weapon with an abnormally high enhancement bonus. Its true power is only revealed when it is used to defend noncombatants.

When wielded in defense of a fixed location where people who are unarmed or untrained with weapons live or have taken shelter, Townsaver emits a high pitched buzzing sound and a thin streak of smoke. By this sign, observers can know that its full power is active. All of the rest of this special power description applies only in this circumstance.

Townsaver grants offensive power matched only by Shieldbreaker. The wielder has four iterative attacks (as a Fighter 20) regardless of his BAB, and every attack with Townsaver is automatically a hit and critical hit. Townsaver automatically bypasses all damage reduction, even DR/-. The wielder's strength score is increased to 30 for all attacks with Townsaver unless it is already higher.

Even more than the destruction of its enemies, Townsaver seeks to block efforts to harm the noncombatants it is defending. Townsaver's wielder may make an unlimited number of attacks of opportunity (which automatically hit and crit) with Townsaver against foes who attempt to move through his threatened area towards the place he is defending. Further, Townsaver will drag him into the path of any ranged or reach attacks that pass within one 5' square of his position. Such attacks automatically target him instead of their intended target, and he gains no benefit from dexterity or any dodge bonuses to AC against these attacks.

So long as an imminent threat remains, Townsaver's wielder cannot die or be stopped from fighting. No matter how much damage he takes, he remains alive, conscious, and at full combat capability. Any spell or ability that would instantly kill him instead deals damage equal to his maximum hit points plus 10. He gains continuous Freedom of Movement, and can ignore the normal consequences of having any ability score reduced to 0. He can ignore any spell, condition, or effect that would prevent him from continuing to fight in defense of his charge.

Townsaver cannot be disarmed.
Weakness:
While Townsaver prevents its wielder from being slain or disabled, it does not protect him from harm. He may win a battle only to die from his wounds the instant the last enemy is gone and Townsaver's power shuts down. Anyone planning to use Townsaver would be well advised to get the best protection he can and to arrange for a lot of in-battle healing.

Townsaver is also of very limited use offensively, as the abilities that make it such a devastating weapon will only activate when the wielder is defending.

As with Shieldbreaker, Townsaver is difficult to fully control. If an enemy is within reach at the start of Townsaver's wielder's turn, and he does not want to attack that enemy, he must make a will save DC 25. If this will save fails, he must make at least one attack with Townsaver against an enemy within reach that turn. Any attempt to sheathe or drop Townsaver requires a will save DC 30.
Interactions with other Swords:
Shieldbreaker: Townsaver has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: Townsaver's attacks against Doomgiver's wielder will be reflected, dealing automatic critical hit damage to Townsaver's wielder (if Townsaver's special power is active).
Coinspinner: Townsaver's automatic hit and crit confirm power bypasses Coinspinner's effect on die rolls, but there is no other special interaction between these two.
The Mindsword: When actively defending noncombatants, Townsaver's wielder is immune to the Mindsword's domination. He is liable to find his charges pouring out to gleefully surrender and pledge their loyalty, however, and once they have all abandoned his shelter Townsaver will deactivate.
Farslayer: If Townsaver is fully active when Farslayer strikes Townsaver's wielder, Townsaver will keep him alive until the end of battle. If he receives sufficient healing before combat ends, this may be enough to save him.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder can fool Townsaver's wielder, but not Townsaver itself. Attempting to sneak past with Sightblinder, intending to attack those Townsaver is defending, will result in Townsaver taking an attack of opportunity against Sightblinder's wielder regardless of Townsaver's wielder's perceptions.
Soulcutter: If Townsaver is fully active, it will prevent its wielder from collapsing in despair from too many apathy levels. It will not prevent acquiring the apathy levels in the first place, however, so he will most likely collapse as soon as combat ends.
Dragonslicer: Townsaver has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Townsaver has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Townsaver has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Woundhealer: Townsaver has no special interaction with Woundhealer.
Destruction:
Townsaver can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Dragonslicer
aka the Sword of Heroes
Symbol: A stylized dragon
Dragonslicer, Dragonslicer, how d'you slay?
Reaching for the heart in behind the scales.
Dragonslicer, Dragonslicer, where d'you stay?
In the belly of the giant that my blade impales.
Base stats: +6 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
Dragonslicer is the great bane of all dragonkind, killing even the mightiest Wyrm with ease. Against other foes, however, it is merely a normal magic weapon.

Unlike Shieldbreaker and Townsaver, Dragonslicer does not render its wielder's skill nearly irrelevant. It merely provides extremely potent advantages against its chosen foes. Against dragons, Dragonslicer ignores all natural armor bonuses, all damage reduction (even DR/-), and has triple its normal crit range (15-20). Its enhancement bonus is increased by 6 against dragons, and it deals an additional 6d6 damage to any dragon it strikes. Any normal hit against a dragon kills it instantly unless it succeeds on a fortitude save DC 25. For critical hits, the save DC is 35 instead.

Dragonslicer can cut through dragon scales, flesh, and bone with ease whether or not the dragon is alive. Using Dragonslicer as a special crafting tool grants a +10 circumstance bonus to craft checks to make armor or other items from dragon hide and other dragon body parts. Dragonslicer can also cut through such items easily if its opponent is wearing them. Dragonhide armor and shields provide no AC bonus against Dragonslicer's attacks.
Weakness:
Dragonslicer provides no particular defense against dragons, so it is up to the wielder's resources to either survive a dragon's wrath or achieve the first blow.
Interactions with other Swords:
Shieldbreaker: Dragonslicer has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: Dragonslicer's attacks can be reflected by Doomgiver just like any other weapon, even if Doomgiver's wielder is a dragon - though in that case the reflected attack will be rather less potent due to not getting the anti-dragon bonuses.
Coinspinner: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Coinspinner.
The Mindsword: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with the Mindsword.
Farslayer: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Farslayer.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder cannot fool Dragonslicer about whether a particular target is a dragon or not.
Soulcutter: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Soulcutter.
Townsaver: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Townsaver.
Stonecutter: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Woundhealer: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Woundhealer.
Destruction:
Dragonslicer can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Stonecutter
aka the Sword of Siege
Symbol: A wedge driving into a block
The Sword of Siege struck a hammer's blow
With a crash, and a smash, and a tumbled wall.
Stonecutter laid a castle low
With a groan, and a roar, and a tower's fall.
Base stats: +6 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
Stonecutter cuts through stone as easily as butter, making it a perfect tool for tunneling, destroying stone structures, and fighting stone golems and similar creatures.

When used to attack stone golems, creatures with the [earth] subtype, or other creatures described as being primarily or entirely stone, Stonecutter ignores all natural armor, damage reduction (even DR/-), and hardness, and deals 6d6 extra damage. Stonecutter is far better known for its strategic uses, however.

Stonecutter can carve a hole up to 5' wide in a stone wall up to 2' thick as a full round action. Against thicker stone barriers Stonecutter can tunnel at a rate of 5' every 3 rounds, not including any effort required to remove the carved-out rubble. Slanting the tunnel upwards is one way to deal with the rubble, allowing gravity to remove it. This is rather perilous for anyone further down the tunnel, as it results in several heavy falling objects careening towards anyone in their path.

Dismantling a stone structure with Stonecutter is as simple as tunneling through enough of its foundation. How much is required, and exactly what comes down because of it, depend on the details of the structure.

Using Stonecutter as a special crafting tool grants a +10 circumstance bonus to craft checks to make items composed primarily of stone and gems.
Weakness:
None in particular.
Interactions with other Swords:
Shieldbreaker: Stonecutter has no protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
All others: Stonecutter has no special interactions with any other Swords.
Destruction:
Stonecutter can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Wayfinder
aka the Sword of Wisdom
Symbol: An arrow
Who holds Wayfinder finds good roads
Its master's step is brisk.
The Sword of Wisdom lightens loads
But adds unto their risk.
Base stats: +6 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
Wayfinder is very nearly omniscient, and can relay this information to its wielder by pointing.

Wayfinder's simplest use is to ask it a straightforward question that can be answered by pointing. For example, "where is the poison", or "which of these two people is lying". It is not necessary to speak the question aloud, merely thinking it is sufficient. This takes a standard action and requires enough mobility to be able to point Wayfinder in the proper direction. Wayfinder will immediately point in the direction that answers the question correctly.

Wayfinder is far more valuable as a general guide, however. Specify a goal - any goal - and Wayfinder will point the way to both the path to it and any means you will need to travel that path. The goal must be reasonably clearly defined, and possible to achieve, but Wayfinder has no other limitations aside from certain interactions with other Swords. For example, you could specify the goal of acquiring great wealth, and Wayfinder might lead you to - in order - an object with no apparent use, an expert thief who wants the aforementioned object for sentimental value, a poorly guarded mansion, a team of safe-crackers willing to work for the jewels your thief stole from the mansion, and finally a bank with an enormous vault. This usage will, obviously, require a great deal of DM adjudication.

Wayfinder's powers of divination are supreme, unblockable by any mortal magic or even divine powers. Only certain Swords can prevent its proper functioning.
Weakness:
While Wayfinder can guide its wielder to almost anything, it will choose a highly risky path to get there. The path Wayfinder chooses will always be achievable, but will also be difficult and dangerous for all but the simplest and shortest goals. Any attempt to circumvent this by, for example, asking the question of what the safest path is*, fails - and Wayfinder detects such attempts as easily and perfectly as everything else.
*Unless the goal itself is safety, in which case Wayfinder will guide you to maximum safety with complete disregard for anything else you might want to accomplish.
Interactions with other Swords:
All: Except in the cases specifically stated otherwise, Wayfinder can take the capabilities of the other Swords into account when deciding the path it guides its wielder on.
Shieldbreaker: Wayfinder can only guide its wielder to Shieldbreaker if Shieldbreaker is currently unowned or if his intentions are friendly. Any similar quest, such as to defeat Shieldbreaker's wielder, also fails. Wayfinder has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: Wayfinder can only guide its wielder to Doomgiver if Doomgiver is currently unowned or if his intentions are friendly. Any similar quest will either fail or backfire. Asking Wayfinder to guide you to defeat Doomgiver's wielder will instead result in it guiding you to be defeated by Doomgiver's wielder.
Coinspinner: If Wayfinder's wielder's quest would be detrimental to Coinspinner's wielder and there is a reasonable alternative he might choose (DM's judgment), Coinspinner will cause Wayfinder's wielder to choose a different quest.
The Mindsword: Wayfinder has no special interaction with the Mindsword.
Farslayer: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Farslayer.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder can fool Wayfinder's wielder, but not Wayfinder itself.
Soulcutter: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Soulcutter.
Townsaver: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Townsaver.
Dragonslicer: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Woundhealer: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Woundhealer.
Destruction:
Wayfinder can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Woundhealer
aka the Sword of Mercy, the Sword of Love, or the Sword of Healing
Symbol: An open human hand
Whose flesh the Sword of Mercy hurts has drawn no breath,
Whose soul it heals has wandered in the night,
Has paid the summing of all debts in death
Has turned to see returning light.
Base stats: +6 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:
Woundhealer is incapable of harming any living creature. Instead, it heals anyone it strikes. Woundhealer is usable as a weapon only against constructs and undead, though in the latter case it is an exceptionally powerful weapon.

When Woundhealer strikes a living creature, it deals no damage and simultaneously casts Heal, Regenerate, and Greater Restoration on him, each at caster level 30. In addition, it automatically cures the target of any spell or ability that is affecting him and is not harmless. This happens regardless of whether the effect can be ended by Dispel Magic. For area effects, Woundhealer only allows the single individual to ignore the effect, and only if it directly affects him (rather than affecting him by means of affecting things around him). If the target is still in the area of such a spell or ability when Woundhealer is removed, he may succumb again. Woundhealer can only heal any single creature once per round; subsequent hits on the same creature in the same round have no effect.

Woundhealer can be impaled in a creature and left there. Impaling yourself with Woundhealer takes a standard action; impaling someone else can be done as a melee attack. In this situation, Woundhealer casts Heal, Regenerate, and Greater Restoration once per round at the beginning of the subject's turn, and grants ongoing immunity to the effects it would end. While Woundhealer is impaled in a living creature, that creature cannot die. Any spell or effect that would instantly kill him has no effect, and damage can only knock him unconscious no matter how far into the negatives his hit points go. Pulling Woundhealer out without resistance, from a subject either willing or helpless, just takes a standard action. Pulling Woundhealer out from an actively resisting foe can be done with the "grab an item" use of disarm, but Woundhealer counts as well secured.

If used quickly enough, Woundhealer can even repair mortal wounds. If Woundhealer is plunged into the body of a creature that died within 1 round, it casts Revivify on him. This can revive even elementals and outsiders, as well as creatures killed by death effects, but it does still require a reasonably intact body.

When used as a weapon against undead, Woundhealer deals damage as normal for a +6 weapon and also casts Heal (DC 30, caster level 30) on the creature if the attack hits. Against constructs, Woundhealer is merely a regular +6 weapon.
Weakness:
None.
Interactions with other Swords:
Shieldbreaker: If Woundhealer is impaled in a living creature when Shieldbreaker strikes that creature (or Woundhealer directly), Shieldbreaker is destroyed as if by its own sundering ability. In all other cases, Woundhealer has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability. Shieldbreaker will not register a swing with Woundhealer as an attack, however, unless Shieldbreaker's wielder is a construct or undead.
Doomgiver: Doomgiver will not prevent Woundhealer from healing anyone, and will only reflect Woundhealer's attacks if Doomgiver's wielder is a construct or undead.
Coinspinner: Woundhealer has no special interaction with Coinspinner.
The Mindsword: Woundhealer can instantly reverse the mental domination of the Mindsword, and grants immunity to the Mindsword's special powers to anyone Woundhealer is impaled in.
Farslayer: If used proactively (pre-impaling) or promptly (within 1 round), Woundhealer can save a living creature from Farslayer. Woundhealer's wielder will even get a new Sword out of the experience - nothing stops him from plucking Farslayer out of the non-corpse it's stuck in.
Sightblinder: Woundhealer can end the panic Sightblinder can cause, but has no other special interaction with Sightblinder.
Soulcutter: Woundhealer's Greater Restoration ability cures apathy levels along with any negative levels.
Townsaver: Woundhealer has no special interaction with Townsaver.
Dragonslicer: Woundhealer has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Woundhealer has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Woundhealer has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Destruction:
Woundhealer can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Debihuman
2012-12-16, 01:57 PM
So far, I'm liking this a lot. It's been so long since I've read these books that it's kind of refreshing to see the swords revisited.

May I suggest that instead of spoilers (since the books have been in print since 1980s and there's nothing much to spoil now), you turn these into lists.

Debby

Douglas
2012-12-16, 05:54 PM
The reason I'm using spoiler tags isn't to hide things from people who might be spoiled by them, but to prevent forcing people to scroll through a humongous post to get to the part they're looking for (that reserved post? I've got the character count, I WILL need it before I'm done). Lists would not serve the same purpose.

If you think my concern over that is unwarranted, that's another matter.

Any comments on the specifics of the first Sword?

One detail that I fiddled with a bit more than the rest was the strength effect. My initial idea was an actual increase/decrease in strength score (by 2 per round), but that raised the question of how it would work on the low end. It should never result in paralyzing the wielder, so no reducing strength below 1, but even dropping strength to 1 didn't seem to go far enough to match the potential extreme. *plot spoiler*A god of Vulcan's rank, even with his strength dropped to 1, would still have enough bonuses from BAB, size, divine ranks, and such, that he'd never be out-grappled by a bunch of regular guys.Shifting the modifier to strength-based rolls is what I came up with to resolve that. Do you think it achieves the proper effect well?

Another thing I just thought of, should Shieldbreaker grant better AoO ability? Say, unlimited AoOs per round? I'm not certain how well that detail would fit.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2012-12-16, 11:42 PM
Unlimited attacks of opportunity doesn't make sense for Shieldbreaker, since attacks of opportunity usually are reactions to non-attacks. Also, the wielder of Shieldbreaker has very little conscious control over it because of that ability, so attacks of opportunity might even be more difficult. I think its current unlimited auto-deflect is fine.

I would also note that Shieldbreaker does not trigger its defensive effect if an incoming effect is obviously and directly non-harmful (so it won't block a cure light wounds spell unless there are special circumstances like the wielder being undead, it won't block rainfall because rain is benign unless the wielder would melt as a result, but it would block a detect thoughts spell because it's not a harmless spell). You may even go so far as to state that spells with the "harmless" note in their save entry cannot be blocked.

I would also note that...
Woundhealer is immune to Shieldbreaker because, via the above clause, it is not a weapon. One could imagine an attacker sundering the armor of the wearer of Shieldbreaker using Woundhealer, then choking him to death. The special note of Woundhealer breaking Shieldbreaker as part of its healing effect is fine, but Woundhealer alone could not sunder Shieldbreaker because Swords normally can't break other Swords. This is a generally accepted fan theory, and makes more sense than the thematic moral stated in the final book.


A god of Vulcan's rank, even with his strength dropped to 1, would still have enough bonuses from BAB, size, divine ranks, and such, that he'd never be out-grappled by a bunch of regular guys.

You could simply say that they can be coup de graced with no save if they draw Shieldbreaker with no weapons or threats nearby, regardless of hit points, armor class, or damage reduction.

Douglas
2012-12-17, 12:19 AM
Unlimited attacks of opportunity doesn't make sense for Shieldbreaker, since attacks of opportunity usually are reactions to non-attacks. Also, the wielder of Shieldbreaker has very little conscious control over it because of that ability, so attacks of opportunity might even be more difficult. I think its current unlimited auto-deflect is fine.
Shieldbreaker has a very strong offense component in addition to its defense, though.

I was considering it along the lines of Shieldbreaker granting essentially perfect combat skill, which could be considered to include taking advantage of when an opponent drops his guard. On the other hand, where does that stop? Throwing in every fighter bonus feat in the game would be just absurd, and also a bookkeeping nightmare, and so on. Flipping back to the other side, absurd speed of weapon use is common in descriptions of Shieldbreaker fighting.

I'm leaning towards leaving it out, as you suggest, though I'm still open to debate on it.


I would also note that Shieldbreaker does not trigger its defensive effect if an incoming effect is obviously and directly non-harmful (so it won't block a cure light wounds spell unless there are special circumstances like the wielder being undead, it won't block rainfall because rain is benign unless the wielder would melt as a result, but it would block a detect thoughts spell because it's not a harmless spell). You may even go so far as to state that spells with the "harmless" note in their save entry cannot be blocked.
I was going to say that's covered by referencing Invisibility's "attack" definition, but then I looked it up and discovered Invisibility doesn't mention it. Odd.

I'll add a note about that. How's this sound: This protection generally uses the same definition of "attack" as the Invisibility spell (except for effects noted as harmless, which are not blocked)


I would also note that...
Woundhealer is immune to Shieldbreaker because, via the above clause, it is not a weapon. One could imagine an attacker sundering the armor of the wearer of Shieldbreaker using Woundhealer, then choking him to death. The special note of Woundhealer breaking Shieldbreaker as part of its healing effect is fine, but Woundhealer alone could not sunder Shieldbreaker because Swords normally can't break other Swords. This is a generally accepted fan theory, and makes more sense than the thematic moral stated in the final book.
Heh, I actually already had a note about that, I just haven't posted it yet because I haven't posted Woundhealer.


You could simply say that they can be coup de graced with no save if they draw the weapon with no weapons or threats nearby, regardless of hit points, armor class, or damage reduction.
Too specific and absolute. The effect described in the book is clearly a general weakening of muscular strength, nothing more or less, and it isn't exploited for a death blow either.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2012-12-17, 01:26 AM
Too specific and absolute. The effect described in the book is clearly a general weakening of muscular strength, nothing more or less, and it isn't exploited for a death blow either.

What about negative levels?

Douglas
2012-12-17, 01:47 PM
What about negative levels?
Could you elaborate on what you think the advantages and disadvantages of that would be relative to the current approach?

Douglas
2012-12-19, 09:01 AM
I'll leave Shieldbreaker as is for now.

Time for Sword number 2:

Doomgiver
aka the Sword of Justice
Symbol: A hollow circle
The Sword of Justice balances the pans
Of right and wrong, and foul and fair.
Eye for an eye, Doomgiver scans
The fate of all folk everywhere.
Base stats: +9 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:

Doomgiver is second among the Swords, though if not in direct confrontation with Shieldbreaker it may actually be considered the superior weapon. It grants even more comprehensive invulnerability than Shieldbreaker, turns attacks back on their originators rather than merely negating them, and lacks Shieldbreaker's fatal flaw.

Any hostile act, even an indirect one, taken against Doomgiver's wielder is reflected against the attacker. Swords strike their wielders, arrows reverse course in mid flight, spells rebound on their casters, and so on. Even divine abilities of deities are affected. In each case, resolve the attack with the attacker's normal offensive modifiers, opposed by his own defenses. Intent is crucial to this ability, and Doomgiver has a far broader interpretation of "attack" than Shieldbreaker. The degree of directness or indirectness of an attack is irrelevant to Doomgiver; all it cares about is whether an action is intended to be detrimental to its wielder. If the attack has an effect relative to who makes it, treat Doomgiver's wielder as the attacker - for example, Dominate Person would force the caster to save or be dominated by his would-be victim.

An ally could scry on Doomgiver's wielder with no difficulty, while an enemy attempting the same would find Doomgiver's wielder is scrying him instead. An ally held captive and forced to scry for an enemy would get the same result as the enemy, being scryed by his target. Someone casting invisibility to sneak past Doomgiver's wielder with the intent of stealing from him would find that the spell affected Doomgiver's wielder instead. The same person, if planning to kill someone Doomgiver's wielder hates instead, would have his spell work normally. For perhaps the ultimate example of indirectness, someone attempting to starve Doomgiver's wielder by acquiring and taking away all the food in the area - without ever actually getting near Doomgiver - would find that he himself is starving while Doomgiver's wielder is full.

This may require a lot of DM judgment calls, but the primary principles are that a) the action to be reflected must be directed against Doomgiver's wielder (not his friends or allies - unless the intention is to use them to get at him), b) the action being against him must be deliberate (though not necessarily with knowledge of who he is or what he has - Fireballing a group of anonymous peasants to get them out of the way still qualifies if one of the peasants has Doomgiver), and c) Doomgiver should alter the effect only by changing the target and source.
Weakness:

The only significant hole in Doomgiver's protection is in the nature of its power - the power to swap target and source. If an attack harms both the target and the source, one or the other effect will get through. Usually Doomgiver will reflect the attack, and Doomgiver's wielder will suffer the effects that the attacker would normally take. Doomgiver's wielder may choose to not reflect such an attack, however, trusting to his other defenses to block it. Area effects that happen to have been positioned to hit the attacker are not sufficient to trigger this condition. The attack must specifically harm the attacker.

Doomgiver's protection also does not work on hostile acts that have no hostile intent. If someone genuinely believes that what he is doing is not detrimental to those affected by it, Doomgiver will not stop him. This is more of a reason to avoid misguided fools than an exploitable weakness, however, as attempts to exploit it by deliberately manipulating someone into becoming a well-meaning hindrance merely result in Doomgiver considering the manipulator to be the origin of the attack.
Interactions with other Swords:

Shieldbreaker: Doomgiver cannot reflect attacks made by Shieldbreaker's wielder, whether the attacks are made with Shieldbreaker or not. Doomgiver has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Coinspinner: If Coinspinner and Doomgiver come into conflict Coinspinner's luck is transferred to Doomgiver's wielder, but only for the interactions between the two of them. Other participants in the conflict are affected by Coinspinner's luck as normal.
The Mindsword: If Doomgiver's wielder is in range when the Mindsword is drawn, or enters range later, the Mindsword's wielder instantly becomes fanatically loyal to Doomgiver's wielder (subject to will saves vs the Mindsword). Typically, he will immediately approach and offer to give the Mindsword as tribute.
Farslayer: If Farslayer is launched at Doomgiver's wielder, it will promptly turn around and kill its own wielder instead.
Sightblinder: Doomgiver's wielder ignores Sightblinder's powers as fully as Shieldbreaker does, and in addition causes Sightblinder's wielder to view Doomgiver's wielder as if he had Sightblinder instead. Doomgiver's wielder is disguised as per Sightblinder's power, but only with respect to Sightblinder's wielder - all other creatures see Doomgiver's wielder as normal. Doomgiver's wielder also gains Sightblinder's perception powers, but only with respect to Sightblinder's wielder.
Soulcutter: In a conventional confrontation, Doomgiver will not protect against Soulcutter at all due to Soulcutter harming its own wielder more than anyone else. If Soulcutter is in an ally's hand due to enemy manipulation, however, Doomgiver will reflect the entire effect upon the manipulator (including the 1000' aura, centered on the manipulator).
Townsaver: Townsaver's attacks against Doomgiver's wielder will be reflected, dealing automatic critical hit damage to Townsaver's wielder (if Townsaver's special power is active).
Dragonslicer: Doomgiver can reflect Dragonslicer's attacks just like any other weapon, even if Doomgiver's wielder is a dragon - though in that case the reflected attack will be rather less potent due to not getting the anti-dragon bonuses.
Stonecutter: Doomgiver has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Doomgiver prevents Wayfinder from guiding its wielder on any path inimical to Doomgiver's wielder, and prevents Wayfinder from divining anything about Doomgiver's wielder unless Wayfinder's wielder is friendly. If Wayfinder's wielder has chosen a goal deliberately hostile to Doomgiver's wielder, Doomgiver will cause Wayfinder to guide him on a counterproductive path, typically aimed at resulting in Doomgiver's wielder personally turning the tables on him.
Woundhealer: Doomgiver will not prevent Woundhealer from healing anyone, and will only reflect Woundhealer's attacks if Doomgiver's wielder is a construct or undead.
Destruction:

Doomgiver can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Douglas
2013-02-02, 05:21 PM
I was hoping for some discussion on each one, but I guess at this point I should just move on. Maybe adding a link to my sig will help. In any case:

Coinspinner
aka the Sword of Chance, or the Sword of Fortune
Symbol: A pair of dice
Who holds Coinspinner knows good odds
Whichever move he make.
But the Sword of Chance, to please the gods
Slips from him like a snake.
Base stats: +8 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:

Coinspinner grants incredible luck to its owner. Every die rolled for Coinspinner's wielder is treated as if the natural die result were higher by half the maximum value of the die, subject to the die's normal maximum. For example, any attack roll or saving throw of 10 or higher is treated as a natural 20 (and therefore an automatic success), while a natural 1 is treated as if it were 11 - both increasing the chance of beating the DC and avoiding the natural 1 automatic failure rule. Damage from a Fireball, meanwhile, would have each die increased by 3 to a maximum of 6. Anyone making a roll directly against him suffers the opposite, a reduction on each die equal to half its maximum value. Incidentally, this allows the character to take 20 on skill and ability checks in the time normally required to take 10.

If for any reason this effect is undesirable, the wielder may choose to reduce, negate, or even reverse it.

Coinspinner's luck extends far beyond the wielder's own capabilities into the world around him. Convenient coincidences happen with extreme frequency near Coinspinner, even to the extent of events such as the first earthquake in an area in a thousand years happening at precisely the right time to throw a combat opponent off balance or break open the walls of a prison cell. This works for both helping the wielder and hindering his foes; for example, if Coinspinner's wielder is chasing someone, he can reliably depend on his quarry being slowed to a crawl by a long series of contrived circumstances. The DM should be extremely generous in interpretation of this ability - this effect is so powerful as to be at least on par with the die roll modification ability, and is often considered Coinspinner's most important power.

Additionally, Coinspinner can guide its wielder to any location or object the wielder specifies by pointing on demand. If special means are required to get there it will not point these out unless specifically sought, however, and this is a lesser power of the Sword so it can be blocked by normal countermeasures. This is treated as a divination (scrying) effect with caster level 20, and any rolls involved have Coinspinner's luck applied.
Weakness:

Coinspinner's luck is fickle, and it will not stay with any one master for long. Each day, there is a 5% chance that Coinspinner will randomly teleport to a new wielder when its current wielder isn't looking. When this happens, there is a chance of 1% per day the current wielder had it that it will teleport to one of his enemies or rivals rather than a completely random recipient. This teleportation cannot be stopped by any means, not even the powers of a deity.
Interactions with other Swords:

Shieldbreaker: All of Coinspinner's special powers are negated when they would be detrimental to Shieldbreaker's wielder, though Shieldbreaker cannot prevent Coinspinner from teleporting to a new wielder. If Coinspinner would be sundered by Shieldbreaker, there is a 50% chance that it will teleport to a new wielder before the blow lands. If this fails, Coinspinner has no other special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability. If Coinspinner's wielder was wielding no other weapon (and has no natural weapons) at the time Coinspinner teleported away in response to Shieldbreaker, the teleport happens soon enough that Coinspinner's ex-wielder is considered unarmed when the attack lands and therefore will not be hurt.
Doomgiver: If Coinspinner and Doomgiver come into conflict Coinspinner's luck is transferred to Doomgiver's wielder, but only for the interactions between the two of them. Other participants in the conflict are affected by Coinspinner's luck as normal.
The Mindsword: Coinspinner's wielder is highly likely to roll natural 20s on the saves to temporarily resist the Mindsword's influence, but will eventually inevitably succumb if the Mindsword can be brought to bear. This is unlikely to ever be relevant, however, as the Mindsword's wielder will find it exceptionally difficult to draw his Sword while Coinspinner is in range. An endless series of coincidental difficulties are almost certain to delay the Mindsword's drawing long enough for Coinspinner's wielder to get out of range. If the Mindsword is already drawn, Coinspinner's luck will bring similar measures to bear to prevent it from coming into range.
Farslayer: If there is any reasonable target for Farslayer's wielder to consider other than Coinspinner's wielder (DM's judgment), Coinspinner will cause him to choose an alternative target instead.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder can fool Coinspinner's wielder, but not Coinspinner itself. Coinspinner's luck will function according to the true state of affairs, whatever its wielder believes is happening.
Soulcutter: Soulcutter's wielder will find it difficult to draw the Sword when Coinspinner is in range, in similar fashion to the contrived difficulties Coinspinner will exert against drawing the Mindsword, but there is no other special interaction between these two Swords.
Townsaver: Townsaver's automatic hit and crit confirm power bypasses Coinspinner's effect on die rolls, but there is no other special interaction between these two.
Dragonslicer: Coinspinner has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Coinspinner has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: If Wayfinder's wielder's quest would be detrimental to Coinspinner's wielder and there is a reasonable alternative he might choose (DM's judgment), Coinspinner will cause Wayfinder's wielder to choose a different quest.
Woundhealer: Coinspinner has no special interaction with Woundhealer.
Destruction:

Coinspinner can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker. However, any attempt to do so has a 50% chance of causing Coinspinner to immediately teleport to a new wielder before the blow lands.

Baron Corm
2013-02-02, 08:54 PM
Very cool! I just looked up the Wikipedia page about these swords. I like how they're super powerful but have a glaring weakness - that's the way all artifacts should have been made. Probably not this strong, but still.

It seems to me that someone dual-wielding Doomgiver and Shieldbreaker would simply be invulnerable to everything, have no weaknesses, and free to exercise his will on the world. Unless you somehow tripped and hit one with the other, or something. Is that so?

Douglas
2013-02-03, 01:42 AM
Pretty much. Heck, you don't even need to dual wield them, just have Shieldbreaker on your belt so you can be sure no one will wield it against you. Doomgiver by itself is proof against practically everything except Shieldbreaker.

You'd still need other means to actually accomplish things, though, this would just make it difficult to stop you. Now if you added certain other Swords to the mix then you'd really be a force to be reckoned with. Put simply, there is a very good reason that every major power in the entire world wants as many Swords as they can get, and put a lot of resources into tracking where each one is and who has it.

An amusing example of Doomgiver in action from the books (very mild spoiler)
At one point, Aphrodite (goddess of love), attempts to steal Doomgiver. She does so by finding the person who has it and using her godly powers to make him fall in love with her. The instant he picks it up (intending to hand it over), she falls in love with him instead while his feelings are reduced to a sort of abstract pity. She leaves after regretfully informing him that, as a mortal human, he would probably not survive the full embrace she would like to give him.

If I were a character in the books (though with all my Sword knowledge) seeking to gain a bunch of Swords, I would target Shieldbreaker first. Use regular old spying, rumor gathering, news, etc. to find out who has it, track it down, and go in unarmed (though perhaps with an armed escort to keep everyone else off my back). Once Shieldbreaker is acquired, I'd go after Doomgiver in the same fashion, though I'd actually keep it sheathed just with one hand on the pommel - I'd need the negation of Doomgiver's protection, but I wouldn't want to risk destroying my loot. Then I'd go after Wayfinder, and use that to find the rest while depending on Doomgiver for protection. As far as I can figure, if you get that far nothing but your own incompetence can stop you from getting the rest (at least until Coinspinner teleports again).

Baron Corm
2013-02-03, 10:00 AM
It seems that someone else obtaining Coinspinner wouldn't be a big deal if Doomgiver directly and indirectly counters it.


An amusing example of Doomgiver in action from the books (very mild spoiler)
At one point, Aphrodite (goddess of love), attempts to steal Doomgiver. She does so by finding the person who has it and using her godly powers to make him fall in love with her. The instant he picks it up (intending to hand it over), she falls in love with him instead while his feelings are reduced to a sort of abstract pity. She leaves after regretfully informing him that, as a mortal human, he would probably not survive the full embrace she would like to give him.

Dang, I bet that guy wishes he had Coinspinner too, so it could somehow work out :smallbiggrin:.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-02-03, 07:13 PM
If I were a character in the books (though with all my Sword knowledge) seeking to gain a bunch of Swords, I would target Shieldbreaker first. Use regular old spying, rumor gathering, news, etc. to find out who has it, track it down, and go in unarmed (though perhaps with an armed escort to keep everyone else off my back). Once Shieldbreaker is acquired, I'd go after Doomgiver in the same fashion, though I'd actually keep it sheathed just with one hand on the pommel - I'd need the negation of Doomgiver's protection, but I wouldn't want to risk destroying my loot. Then I'd go after Wayfinder, and use that to find the rest while depending on Doomgiver for protection. As far as I can figure, if you get that far nothing but your own incompetence can stop you from getting the rest (at least until Coinspinner teleports again).

If Shieldbreaker is sheathed, you could still be defeated by a sufficiently strong unarmed opponent. And any intelligent person carrying Shieldbreaker would carry a secondary weapon for just such a case. Any organized group that possesses Shieldbreaker would follow the standard plan for retrieving it (assault by two unarmed warriors accompanied by two unarmed warriors), though you might be able to convince someone to help you with that.

Zevankar
2013-02-04, 10:01 AM
I've noticed that so far each sword has a different magical bonus, such as +10, +9 and then +8 with coinspinner. Aren't all the swords supposed to be identical other than their special power? Is there a reason you chose to make these stats different?

Zevankar
2013-02-04, 10:09 AM
I noticed that Shieldbreaker overcomes all damage reduction. I personally think that all the swords should have that ability as they were crafted by gods, in theory with the ability to be used against gods.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-02-04, 10:25 AM
I noticed that Shieldbreaker overcomes all damage reduction. I personally think that all the swords should have that ability as they were crafted by gods, in theory with the ability to be used against gods.

They're already epic-grade weapons (+6 or higher). Most gods have DR /epic, so no problem there. And any cutting ability is well-represented by the same bonus to hit and damage.

Douglas
2013-02-04, 10:31 AM
I've noticed that so far each sword has a different magical bonus, such as +10, +9 and then +8 with coinspinner. Aren't all the swords supposed to be identical other than their special power? Is there a reason you chose to make these stats different?
The Swords do have something of a hierarchy of power, with Shieldbreaker clearly at the top and some strong indications that Doomgiver is second. I decided that this should be indicated by something more than just the direct head-to-head interactions. All of them are epic with at least +6, but they are not all equally powerful.


I noticed that Shieldbreaker overcomes all damage reduction. I personally think that all the swords should have that ability as they were crafted by gods, in theory with the ability to be used against gods.
They are all able to affect and even trump gods, true, but this is only ever shown to happen when a Sword's particular special ability is in play. Thus, ignoring DR only seems appropriate to me for Swords whose special ability involves physically attacking things.

Kislath
2013-02-04, 10:48 AM
I've used these swords for years in-game, usually without telling the players what they had.
Townsaver is a favorite. It's funny to watch a mighty warrior mow down a horde of foes with wreckless impunity, thinking he's totally awesome, only to die horribly at the end of the fight.
Farslayer is another one with lots of fun potential. I once had it kill 4 members of a party before they figured out that they probably shouldn't throw it anymore.

Douglas
2013-02-04, 10:59 AM
I've used these swords for years in-game, usually without telling the players what they had.
Townsaver is a favorite. It's funny to watch a mighty warrior mow down a horde of foes with wreckless impunity, thinking he's totally awesome, only to die horribly at the end of the fight.
Farslayer is another one with lots of fun potential. I once had it kill 4 members of a party before they figured out that they probably shouldn't throw it anymore.
Hehe. Those are probably the two most severe drawbacks, and I was careful in my (not yet posted) writeups for those two to put them in with their full ignominious glory.:smallamused:

I'm surprised it took that long for them to figure out Farslayer's drawback. It's not exactly a hard leap of logic to make. But hey, at least their four worst enemies are dead too, right?

I'd be curious to see how my stats compare to what you've been using.

Douglas
2013-02-06, 11:43 AM
Coinspinner looks good to everyone? Moving on, then, to:

The Mindsword
aka the Sword of Glory, Skulltwister, or the Sword of Madness
Symbol: A flying banner
The Mindsword spun in the dawn's gray light
And men and demons knelt down before.
The Mindsword flashed in the midday bright
Gods joined the dance, and the march to war.
It spun in the twilight dim as well
And gods and men marched off to hell.
Base stats: +8 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:

The Mindsword inspires total obedience and loyalty to its wielder in all creatures within a large area. When it is drawn, everyone within a 1000' radius (regardless of line of sight and line of effect) instantly has their attitude towards the wielder changed to fanatic, as per the epic diplomacy rules, including the morale bonuses granted. As a side effect of this, everyone within range instantly becomes aware of the wielder's presence and identity. A successful will save DC 30 can delay this change for 1 round, but the save must be repeated each round, takes a full round action to even attempt, and the DC increases by 1 for each round after the first. This is a mind-affecting effect, but immunity only grants a +10 bonus on the save and reduces the effort required to a standard action per round.

The Mindsword's wielder gains the morale bonuses of fanaticism, but without the accompanying attitude change.

Victims who are aware of the Mindsword's power and that it has been used on them are convinced, despite all prior knowledge and evidence to the contrary, that in this particular case the Mindsword merely revealed its wielder's worthiness rather than having its normal domination effect.

The Mindsword's influence is impervious to diplomacy, bluff, and even the most potent of spells - even Dominate spells cannot force someone affected by the Mindsword to act against its wielder or disobey his commands. Nothing but the passage of time or the powers of other Swords can affect it. The attitude and loyalty caused by the Mindsword last for 5 days plus 1 day per point of the wielder's charisma bonus, and then degrade by 1 step per day until they reach the subject's original attitude. Immunity to mind-affecting abilities cuts each of these times in half, making the reversion both start earlier and progress faster. Repeated exposure to the Mindsword resets the duration.

In addition, wounds from the Mindsword are difficult to heal and cause gradually increasing delirium. Healing magic used on such wounds fails unless the caster succeeds on a DC 25 caster level check, and the victim takes 1d4 wisdom damage immediately on being wounded and another 1d4 wisdom damage every 10 minutes thereafter. Each instance of wisdom damage can be prevented by a DC 25 fortitude save, but the recurring damage does not stop until 5 (not necessarily consecutive) successful saves are made or the wound is healed.
Weakness:

None, really. The only good counters to the Mindsword are staying out of range or using certain specific other Swords.
Interactions with other Swords:

Shieldbreaker: Shieldbreaker's wielder is completely immune to the Mindsword's power, and the Mindsword has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: If Doomgiver's wielder is in range when the Mindsword is drawn, the Mindsword's wielder instantly becomes fanatically loyal to Doomgiver's wielder (subject to will saves vs the Mindsword). Typically, he will immediately approach and offer to give the Mindsword as tribute.
Coinspinner: Coinspinner's wielder is highly likely to roll natural 20s on the saves to temporarily resist the Mindsword's influence, but will eventually inevitably succumb if the Mindsword can be brought to bear. This is unlikely to ever be relevant, however, as the Mindsword's wielder will find it exceptionally difficult to draw his Sword while Coinspinner is in range. An endless series of coincidental difficulties are almost certain to delay the Mindsword's drawing long enough for Coinspinner's wielder to get out of range. If the Mindsword is already drawn, Coinspinner's luck will bring similar measures to bear to prevent it from coming into range.
Farslayer: The Mindsword has no special interaction with Farslayer. If Farslayer is aimed at the Mindsword's wielder (almost certainly from beyond the Mindsword's domination range), it will slay him just the same as any other target.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder's immunity to mind-affecting effects functions just as any other such immunity against the Mindsword, granting a +10 bonus on saves to resist the Mindsword, reducing the effort required to a standard action per round, and reducing the duration of the Mindsword's domination.
Soulcutter: The Mindsword's wielder and his followers are buffered slightly against Soulcutter's effect by the morale bonuses of their fanaticism. None of them will actually take an apathy level until those bonuses have been cancelled by an earlier apathy level. The attitude adjustment persists even in the absence of the bonuses, however. The Mindsword's wielder himself has slight additional protection against Soulcutter - when he would gain the final apathy level to equal his hit dice and force giving up in despair, he is instead forced to flee. While fleeing, he can take no actions other than to better enable his retreat. This continues until he is outside Soulcutter's area of effect, at which point he regains full control (though still afflicted with apathy levels one short of his hit dice total). Soulcutter also buffers against the Mindsword, however; pre-existing loyalty conversions are not affected, but anyone inside Soulcutter's area of effect cannot be converted by the Mindsword.
Townsaver: When actively defending noncombatants, Townsaver's wielder is immune to the Mindsword's domination. He is liable to find his charges pouring out to gleefully surrender and pledge their loyalty, however, and once they have all abandoned his shelter Townsaver will deactivate.
Dragonslicer: The Mindsword has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: The Mindsword has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: The Mindsword has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Woundhealer: Woundhealer can instantly reverse the mental domination of the Mindsword, and grants immunity to the Mindsword's special powers to anyone Woundhealer is impaled in.
Destruction:

The Mindsword can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

I know that there is in character speculation and reasoning in one of the books that Doomgiver would turn the Mindsword's loyalty into hatred, and that this conflicts with how I defined the interaction. I believe the characters making this deduction and speculation are mistaken, working from a very poor understanding of Doomgiver. It doesn't fit with the nature of Doomgiver's effect, which in every case ever shown is to reflect each attack without changing the attack's nature.

Debihuman
2013-02-06, 12:03 PM
You might want to consider putting each sword in its own post to make it easier to see when it it is complete. Every time you edit the first post, it isn't clear what you have changed so I have no idea which swords you've been changing. Once a sword is complete, you can note a final version somewhere in the title or as a edit.

And really get rid of the spoilers as they don't have so much information in them that a little formatting would make just as easy.

One thing I do notice is a severe lack of game mechanics. While I realize these have "ULTIMATE POWER" written all over them, so do a lot of other mythological items. It's fine for swords to mimic the books, but in games where a Sphere of Annihilation can be had, these are diminished.

Debby

Douglas
2013-02-06, 12:23 PM
You might want to consider putting each sword in its own post to make it easier to see when it it is complete. Every time you edit the first post, it isn't clear what you have changed so I have no idea which swords you've been changing. Once a sword is complete, you can note a final version somewhere in the title or as a edit.
The only changes I have ever put in any of the Swords are the ones specifically discussed in this thread, and I mentioned them in a new post at the same time as I did the edit (and I think a minor change to Shieldbreaker is the only one I've had to do).

I have been adding the Sword-to-Sword interactions, and whole Swords for the first post, but that's all.


And really get rid of the spoilers as they don't have so much information in them that a little formatting would make just as easy.
I suppose I could replace the spoilers with indenting, or something. There's still the concern of scrolling, though. Take that first post (the current version, through the Mindsword) and quadruple it. Add a bit more for the extra interactions I haven't posted yet, maybe adding up to a total of quintupling instead. Is that still a reasonable amount of text to not have spoilers to shorten it?

Anyone else got an opinion on this?


One thing I do notice is a severe lack of game mechanics. While I realize these have "ULTIMATE POWER" written all over them, so do a lot of other mythological items. It's fine for swords to mimic the books, but in games where a Sphere of Annihilation can be had, these are diminished.
I'm not sure what you mean, here, by a "severe lack of game mechanics".

Barmoz
2013-02-06, 01:41 PM
I tried doing something like this years ago, great work on the writeups, I'm excited to see the others. One important factor in gameplay use is that the weaknesses shouldn't be common knowledge, for example if I remember correctly, even Vulcan couldn't understand why Shieldbreaker wasn't working against the unarmed mob. Designing a plan for taking or defeating Shieldbreaker shouldn't have this information as a starting point.

Additionally, I'd remove the saving throw for sheathing / dropping etc. It's offensive and defensive capabilities bypass every save and resistance, I think it's limiting liability should as well. It's been forever since I read the books, are there any examples of anyone ever setting it down mid-combat?

I'm also particularly interested in Townsaver, it had so little screen time in the books it's hard to judge, but I'd give it superiority versus any sword except shieldbreaker when it is active.

Are you planning to add a grand prize as well? The whole point of the forging of the swords was collecting them all, a plan which obviously fell by the wayside once the first sword was destroyed, but I'd love to see speculation on the consequences of "winning the game"

Douglas
2013-02-06, 02:34 PM
I tried doing something like this years ago, great work on the writeups, I'm excited to see the others. One important factor in gameplay use is that the weaknesses shouldn't be common knowledge, for example if I remember correctly, even Vulcan couldn't understand why Shieldbreaker wasn't working against the unarmed mob. Designing a plan for taking or defeating Shieldbreaker shouldn't have this information as a starting point.
The precise details of how they all worked were a mystery for quite a while, true, but once they saw enough use the information did start to spread. Jord was originally the only one who knew about Shieldbreaker's weakness, and even he was operating on a sort of half-felt instinct from the faded memory of a feeling, but a few years later almost every important faction knew of it. Heck, the very next book has someone deliberately dual-wielding Shieldbreaker with something else specifically because of it, while half his opponents were deliberately unarmed.


Additionally, I'd remove the saving throw for sheathing / dropping etc. It's offensive and defensive capabilities bypass every save and resistance, I think it's limiting liability should as well. It's been forever since I read the books, are there any examples of anyone ever setting it down mid-combat?
There is a scene in the later books where two people, each with a Sword, are facing off and one of the Swords is Shieldbreaker. They spend a fair bit of time alternately dropping and picking up their Swords in a confrontation threatening enough I'd say it should qualify as combat.


I'm also particularly interested in Townsaver, it had so little screen time in the books it's hard to judge, but I'd give it superiority versus any sword except shieldbreaker when it is active.
I think you'll probably be satisfied with what I did for that. When it's active it is very nearly supreme, with I think only Shieldbreaker and Doomgiver truly beating it, but its limitations pull it down relatively low on the power ranking.


Are you planning to add a grand prize as well? The whole point of the forging of the swords was collecting them all, a plan which obviously fell by the wayside once the first sword was destroyed, but I'd love to see speculation on the consequences of "winning the game"
Honestly, I think any such extra bonus would be superfluous. If you have all 12 Swords, their combined normal abilities are already pretty much enough to declare yourself dictator of the world and make it stick.

Douglas
2013-02-11, 04:06 PM
No response to any part of post #23, not even from Debihuman?

Next up, an experiment with using indent:

Farslayer
aka the Sword of Vengeance
Symbol: Several concentric circles forming a bullseye or target
Farslayer howls across the world
For thy heart, for thy heart, who hast wronged me!
Vengeance is his who casts the blade
Yet he will in the end no triumph see.
Base stats: +7 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:

Farslayer can seek out and slay any foe, no matter how distant or powerful. The wielder simply has to identify the target and release the Sword. It is traditional, though not necessary, to quote the second line of Farslayer's verse before launching it.

To use Farslayer's special power, the wielder must speak aloud the identity of the target and then either throw or drop the Sword. Doing this is a standard action. The target's name is sufficient identification, even if there are many people with the same name - Farslayer will strike according to the wielder's intent. Any other description that is reasonably specific will also do, even if the wielder does not know precisely who he is identifying - "the newest guard in that bastard's army" would work, however poor a choice in might be.

Once launched, Farslayer flies at a speed of one mile per round, directly toward its target. If the target is on another plane, Farslayer will Plane Shift itself to the appropriate plane (arriving 5d100 miles off target) one round after it is launched. If the target travels to another plane while Farslayer is in flight, Farslayer will Plane Shift to follow him one round later.

Farslayer knows its target's location perfectly at all times no matter what anti-divination measures might be in place, even if a god is trying to hide the target. Once in flight, no barrier or defensive measure of any kind short of another Sword can stop Farslayer. It will pass through any barrier as if the barrier were not there, and any attempt to stop, slow, or change the Sword's flight path automatically fails. If Plane Shifting is necessary to reach the target, anti-teleportation effects are similarly ineffective in stopping Farslayer. When it arrives, Farslayer strikes its target perfectly, slaying him instantly (no save). Further, any means of automatic revival the target might have are also destroyed. If aimed at a lich, Farslayer will hit the lich and then immediately move on to strike the phylactery. Physical objects involved in such things are targeted physically in turn after the primary target is slain, while intangible effects such as a Contingent Revivify simply vanish.

Whoever Farslayer is aimed at is. going. to. die. promptly. And stay dead, at least until resurrected by someone else. Even a deity, if named as Farslayer's target, will die. The protection offered by certain other Swords is the only exception.
Weakness:

Farslayer's major problem is that it stays in the corpse of whatever it kills. Its ownership will then pass to whoever retrieves it from the corpse. It is quite possible, and even likely, for a friend of the victim to pull the Sword out and immediately throw it right back at "whoever threw Farslayer last". This can result in a vicious cycle, quickly decimating both sides in a feud.
Interactions with other Swords:

Shieldbreaker: Farslayer can be launched at Shieldbreaker's wielder, but it will be sundered on arrival (guaranteed, not the normal 50% chance), doing no harm to Shieldbreaker's wielder. Farslayer has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: Launching Farslayer at Doomgiver's wielder is a somewhat elaborate method of committing suicide. Farslayer will launch, fly a short distance, reverse course, and strike its own wielder dead in less than a second.
Coinspinner: If there is any reasonable target for Farslayer's wielder to consider other than Coinspinner's wielder (DM's judgment), Coinspinner will cause him to choose an alternative target instead.
The Mindsword: Farslayer has no special interaction with the Mindsword. If launched at the Mindsword's wielder (almost certainly from outside the Mindsword's mental control range), Farslayer will kill him just the same as any other target.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder's disguise can trick Farslayer's wielder into identifying the wrong target, but Farslayer itself will seek the identified target correctly regardless of any disguise. If Farslayer's wielder names the true identity of Sightblinder's wielder, or identifies him in a way that is independent of his diguise, then Farslayer will seek him out and kill him just as any other target. If Farslayer's wielder launches it at the creature he believes Sightblinder's wielder to be, however, Farslayer will instead seek out and slay the actual creature in question.
Soulcutter: Soulcutter has no special interaction with Farslayer.
Townsaver: If Townsaver is fully active when Farslayer strikes Townsaver's wielder, Townsaver will keep him alive until the end of battle. If he receives sufficient healing before combat ends, this may be enough to save him.
Dragonslicer: Farslayer has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Farslayer has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Farslayer has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Woundhealer: If Farslayer's target is already impaled by Woundhealer, or if Woundhealer is used within one round, Woundhealer can save Farslayer's victim. Woundhealer's wielder will even get a new Sword out of the experience - nothing stops him from plucking Farslayer out of the non-corpse it's stuck in.
Destruction:

Farslayer can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Kish
2013-02-11, 04:15 PM
For compiling them in the first post, I suggest sticking with spoiler boxes, as the first post will otherwise wind up epically long.

Zevankar
2013-02-11, 06:11 PM
Would you consider the swords immune to normal divination? I know in the books Wayfinder and Coinspinner could be used to locate other swords but unless they are immune to other divination anyone with a scry spell could easily track them all down.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-02-12, 02:18 PM
Would you consider the swords immune to normal divination? I know in the books Wayfinder and Coinspinner could be used to locate other swords but unless they are immune to other divination anyone with a scry spell could easily track them all down.

I recall that in the first book a wizard helped the Duke track down the other swords. His divinations were primitive, but it did help.

Also, you're neglecting something very important about scry. It only tracks people, and it cannot track objects. You would have to resort to unreliable divinations that ask questions of extraplanar entities, or use the 8th-level spell discern location. I think that making the swords proof against divination isn't necessary. Making Sightblinder and Doomgiver the only swords that protect against divination would make sense (and I'm leery about making the almighty Shieldbreaker protect its owner against divination when it's not being wielded).

Douglas
2013-02-15, 03:11 PM
Magic in D&D has some highly effective tools for locating people, but it's a lot worse at tracking down objects. Everything I can think of requires proximity, previous contact with the object in question, or both, or is highly unreliable like Contact Other Plane. On top of that, simply knowing a Sword's location does not mean you have the means to take the Sword, especially with the current owner using it to fight against you.

So, yeah, I don't think anti-divination protection is really necessary. Or accurate to the books, though I'll grant that magic other than the Swords is greatly toned down in the books relative to D&D magic.

Unless someone objects again, I think I'll go with indenting for a Sword's intro post but keep spoilers for the compilation post. Next up:

Sightblinder
aka the Sword of Stealth, or the Sword of Deception
Symbol: A stylized human eye
The Sword of Stealth is given to
One lowly and despised.
Sightblinder's gifts: his eyes are keen
His nature is disguised.
Base stats: +7 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:

Sightblinder grants perfect disguise and extreme powers of perception.

Sightblinder projects an impenetrable illusion, covering all senses, over its wielder. If the wielder knows of Sightblinder's powers, he can influence the choice of disguise. If he has a specific disguise in mind, Sightblinder will use it. Failing that, if he at least has a specific purpose he wants to use his disguise for, Sightblinder will choose one suitable for it. Sightblinder will maintain the same disguise consistently for as long as is needed.

Lacking such guidance, Sightblinder will fall back on one of two options, chosen randomly: the appearance of something terrifying, or the appearance of something to be loved and/or protected. Either way, this will draw a lot of attention from everyone in sight. In combat and other moments of stress without guidance from its wielder, Sightblinder will shift rapidly between different disguises, rolling for a new disguise once per round.

If Sightblinder is disguising its wielder as something terrifying, anyone who sees him sees an incredibly powerful and fearsome foe. Sightblinder only uses the appearance of monsters that actually exist, not nightmares from the viewer's imagination, but it will infallibly present an image of the most powerful and implacably hostile creature that the viewer can recognize (however vaguely). If the viewer fails a will save DC 30, he is panicked for 2d6 rounds. If the viewer knows he is facing Sightblinder, the save DC is reduced to 20. Even on a successful save, the viewer may believe the apparition is real if there is no evidence to the contrary and will act accordingly.

If Sightblinder is using its other default method of disguise, anyone who sees its wielder sees something worthy of protection or, alternatively, of obedience. A small child, an innocent woman, a relative or loved one, and a noble lord or high-ranking officer are common choices, though Sightblinder customizes the presented appearance for the morals and values of the viewer. If the viewer has no reason to suspect something is not as it appears, he takes any reasonable measures to protect and aid Sightblinder's wielder.

In all cases, the disguise is flawless. Inconsistencies in behavior (especially if the disguise is a close family member of the viewer), prior knowledge of Sightblinder's presence, and other such things can spoil it, but the actual illusion Sightblinder presents is perfect and cannot be defeated by Spot checks, True Seeing, divination magic in general, or any similar means. Sense Motive could determine something is wrong, but only if Sightblinder's wielder takes actions that are out of character for his current disguise. Even then, Sightblinder grants a +10 bonus on the opposed Bluff check.

Sightblinder can present the same image to all viewers or a different one for each, even with completely different kinds of disguises, with equal ease and perfection. If necessary, Sightblinder can augment its disguise by producing fake dialog and the appearance of actions that have no effect outside of the wielder, though it will limit all such additions to merely allaying short term suspicion - Sightblinder will not, for example, spin elaborate plots with orders for subordinates when disguising its wielder as a spy master. Sightblinder itself can be clearly visible as a Sword, disguised as another weapon, or even invisible, whichever best suits the current disguise. Sightblinder can also leave its wielder undisguised in the view of any of his allies if desired, while simultaneously disguising him against everyone else.

On the perception side of things, Sightblinder grants continuous True Seeing with unlimited range. It also allows its wielder to automatically know the alignment of any creature he sees, grants a +20 bonus on knowledge checks concerning any creature in sight (and makes all knowledge skills count as trained for this purpose), automatically detects lies, and grants a +20 bonus on Spot and Sense Motive checks. No anti-divination protections of any kind can defeat this augmented perception.

In addition, Sightblinder's knowledge of the true nature of things shields its wielder's mind from manipulation. Sightblinder's wielder is immune to all mind-affecting spells and effects.
Weakness:

Sightblinder has no special weaknesses.
Interactions with other Swords:

Shieldbreaker: Sightblinder is powerless against Shieldbreaker. Shieldbreaker's wielder sees Sightblinder's wielder as he actually is regardless of any magical disguise, and all aspects of Sightblinder's perceptive powers fail against Shieldbreaker. Shieldbreaker's wielder can even use mind-affecting spells against Sightblinder, and they will work as normal, ignoring Sightblinder's immunity. Sightblinder has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: Doomgiver's wielder ignores Sightblinder's powers as fully as Shieldbreaker does, and in addition causes Sightblinder's wielder to view Doomgiver's wielder as if he had Sightblinder instead. Doomgiver's wielder is disguised as per Sightblinder's power, but only with respect to Sightblinder's wielder - all other creatures see Doomgiver's wielder as normal. Doomgiver's wielder also gains Sightblinder's perception powers, but only with respect to Sightblinder's wielder.
Coinspinner: Coinspinner's wielder can be fooled by Sightblinder, but Coinspinner itself cannot. Coinspinner's luck will function according to the true state of affairs, whatever its wielder believes is happening.
The Mindsword: Sightblinder's immunity to mind-affecting effects functions just as any other such immunity against the Mindsword, granting a +10 bonus on saves to resist the Mindsword, reducing the effort required to a standard action per round, and reducing the duration of the Mindsword's domination.
Farslayer: If Farslayer's identified target is the true identity of Sightblinder's wielder, or if the identification is independent of the true and assumed identities, then Farslayer is not fooled and seeks him out just as any other target. If Farslayer is launched at a specific creature who Sightblinder's wielder is disguised as, Farslayer will instead seek out and slay the actual creature in question.
Soulcutter: Sightblinder's immunity to mind-affecting effects grants substantial resistance to Soulcutter as normal.
Townsaver: Sightblinder can fool Townsaver's wielder, but not Townsaver itself. Attempting to sneak past with Sightblinder, intending to attack those Townsaver is defending, will result in Townsaver taking an attack of opportunity against Sightblinder's wielder regardless of Townsaver's wielder's perceptions.
Dragonslicer: Sightblinder cannot fool Dragonslicer about whether a particular target is a dragon or not.
Stonecutter: Sightblinder has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Sightblinder can fool Wayfinder's wielder, but not Wayfinder itself.
Woundhealer: Woundhealer can end the panic Sightblinder can cause, but has no other special interaction with Sightblinder.
Destruction:

Sightblinder can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Debihuman
2013-02-16, 08:01 AM
On an aesthetic level, I'm finding these very good. On a practical level, less so. I'm not a big fan of items that grant "infinite" and "perfect" abilities. It's one thing to grant a +20 bonus to skills and another to stay an item ALWAYS does X or can never be Y. Yes, these are supposed to be Swords of Extreme Power, and I see the point of wanting to match the books. The problem is context. In the books, these are the only real major artifacts. This will not be true for most campaigns.

With a miracle, a PC could nullify the swords provided the right deity had the power to grant such a thing. I've never been especially keen on how the gods were portrayed in the books. The books set up the inherent problem of Vulcan being unable to unmake the swords, which is silly in its own right. In D&D, there are gods far more powerful than Vulcan. Invoking an overdeity would not be out of the question. You cannot reconcile these things to any real satisfaction. I would not expect you to. However, it does beg the question of allowing the PCs to have that much power and what happens if only one PC gets only one of these swords. Save us from the munchin and powergamer is all I say.

Debby

Douglas
2013-02-18, 01:31 PM
I'd expect most campaigns these are used in to feature them as a primary focus of the main plot. As such, while they might not be the only major artifacts in the world they would most likely be the premier major artifacts, more powerful than any others. In general, I'd expect the Sword to win in a confrontation with another major artifact. Exceptions would be campaign-specific and would have to be adjudicated on a case by case basis.

There is a strong point about world-of-Swords gods being quite a bit less powerful than D&D gods, though. This is at least in part due to the whole God Needs Prayer Badly (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodsNeedPrayerBadly) thing and them getting less of it as the series goes on, and that itself brings up a detail you touched on: I suspect that Vulcan was, in fact, capable of destroying the Swords - at the time he made them, before they were distributed and the resulting conflicts started diluting people's beliefs in godly supremacy. By the time anyone even brought up the idea of destroying the Swords, all the gods' powers had decreased substantially, and Vulcan himself didn't think he'd be able to repeat the act of creating them.

In D&D terms, this could potentially imply that gods with a sufficiently high Divine Rank could trump the Swords, but that every god in the books was below the threshold and dropping by the time it became relevant.

With that in mind, some ideas for optional rules:
Threshold:

When a Sword comes into direct opposition with a greater deity (one with Divine Rank 16 or higher), its special powers fail. These beings are beyond even the Swords. A deity must act directly, in person, if he wishes to defeat a Sword, however, and such an act may provoke retaliation from other deities if done outside the deity's home domain.
Rank check:

When a Sword comes into direct opposition with a deity, the deity makes a rank check (d20 + divine rank) against a DC of 20 plus the Sword's enhancement bonus. The Always Maximize Roll ability of greater deities applies. If this check succeeds, the Sword's special power fails against that deity. A deity must act directly, in person, if he wishes to defeat a Sword, however, and such an act may provoke retaliation from other deities if done outside the deity's home domain.
How do those sound? Got any other suggestions? Is the DC of the check in the right ballpark? It might be appropriate to give some special modifiers or rules for specific Salient Divine Abilities or portfolio elements, but I haven't looked over the list of those much; any suggestions?

I'd be very hesitant to allow even a full XP cost Miracle to beat a Sword, at least directly. It may involve a deity, but it is still mortal magic cast by a normal character, and shouldn't be able to trump a major artifact. I would allow Miracle to put in a request for the personal appearance required to defeat a Sword, but whether to grant that request would be a complex role playing affair.

I'll put up the next Sword tomorrow.

Douglas
2013-02-19, 07:01 PM
New Sword time.

Soulcutter
aka the Sword of Despair, or the Tyrant's Blade
Symbol: None. Soulcutter's hilt is blank.
The Tyrant's Blade no blood hath spilled
But doth the spirit carve
Soulcutter hath no body killed
But many left to starve.
Base stats: +7 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:

Soulcutter induces despair and apathy in everyone nearby, causing all activity to cease and everyone to simply lie in place, immobile and uncaring.

When Soulcutter is drawn, all creatures within a 1000' radius (regardless of line of sight and line of effect) gain apathy levels at a rate of one per round. Apathy levels have the same effect as negative levels with the following exceptions:

Apathy levels ignore all resistances and immunities to negative levels that any victim might have.
Apathy levels require a will save instead of a fortitude save to remove normally (after 24 hours). The save DC is 20.
If a creature has a number of apathy levels, or combined apathy and negative levels, equal to its hit dice, it drops anything it is holding, collapses prone to the ground, and remains there, helpless and taking no actions instead of dying. A creature can have more apathy levels than hit dice, but the excess do not impose any penalties and only count for how many morale effects would be required to counteract them.
Immunity to mind-affecting effects grants some resistance to apathy levels, allowing a will save DC 30 to avoid each one when it would initially be gained. There is normally no save until 24 hours later. Attempting this save is optional, and costs a standard action from the victim's next turn.
Apathy levels can be mitigated by morale effects. Each spell or effect that grants a morale bonus to a victim of Soulcutter temporarily negates one apathy level instead of granting its usual bonuses. Any penalties, non-morale bonuses, or other effects remain, and when the morale effect ends the apathy level returns.
Weakness:

Soulcutter's wielder is not exempt from the Sword's effect. In fact, the wielder gains two apathy levels per round instead of one due to his extreme proximity to the blade. Thus, in normal circumstances Soulcutter is at best a weapon of mutual destruction.
Interactions with other Swords:

Shieldbreaker: Shieldbreaker's wielder is immune to Soulcutter's effect, and can safely spend any amount of time in the area without gaining any apathy levels. This is true even if Shieldbreaker's wielder is the same as Soulcutter's wielder; indeed, dual wielding Shieldbreaker and Soulcutter is one of the few ways to safely use Soulcutter as an offensive weapon. Soulcutter has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: In a conventional confrontation, Soulcutter will ignore Doomgiver's protection due to Soulcutter harming its own wielder more than anyone else. If Soulcutter is in an ally's hand due to enemy manipulation, however, Doomgiver will reflect the entire effect upon the manipulator (including the 1000' aura, centered on the manipulator).
Coinspinner: Soulcutter's wielder will find it difficult to draw the Sword when Coinspinner is in range, in similar fashion to the contrived difficulties Coinspinner will exert against drawing the Mindsword, but there is no other special interaction between these two Swords.
The Mindsword: The Mindsword's wielder and his followers are buffered slightly against Soulcutter's effect by the morale bonuses of their fanaticism. None of them will actually take an apathy level until those bonuses have been cancelled by an earlier apathy level. The attitude adjustment persists even in the absence of the bonuses, however. The Mindsword's wielder himself has slight additional protection against Soulcutter - when he would gain the final apathy level to equal his hit dice and force giving up in despair, he is instead forced to flee. While fleeing, he can take no actions other than to better enable his retreat. This continues until he is outside Soulcutter's area of effect, at which point he regains full control (though still afflicted with apathy levels one short of his hit dice total). Soulcutter also buffers against the Mindsword, however; pre-existing loyalty conversions are not affected, but anyone inside Soulcutter's area of effect cannot be converted by the Mindsword.
Farslayer: Farslayer has no special interaction with Soulcutter.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder's immunity to mind-affecting effects grants substantial resistance to Soulcutter as normal.
Townsaver: If Townsaver is fully active, it will prevent its wielder from collapsing in despair from too many apathy levels. It will not prevent acquiring the apathy levels in the first place, however, so he will most likely collapse as soon as combat ends.
Dragonslicer: Soulcutter has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Soulcutter has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Soulcutter has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Woundhealer: Woundhealer's Greater Restoration ability cures apathy levels along with any negative levels.
Destruction:

Soulcutter can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Eldest
2013-02-19, 08:46 PM
Alright, I will not critique the power level, since I think you know that these are very, very strong and intended that. Instead, I'm going to point out an issue I have with the only one of these I've read so far, Shieldbreaker. It says that you get 4 itererative attacks, at 20/15/10/5, regardless of your actual BaB. I'd recomend instead giving the wielder an additional attack (or two) at their full BaB, along with a large bonus to said attack. A fighter who has trained their entire life with weapons should be able to beat out a first level wizard in swordplay. Yes, the sword makes you better: this is what the extra attack and bonus to your to-hit rolls mean. But who's wielding it should have some effect.

If I have time, I'll look through the others.

Douglas
2013-02-19, 08:59 PM
But who's wielding it should have some effect.
With Shieldbreaker? Not really. That's kind of the whole point of its power.

In the books, Shieldbreaker doesn't really make you better at fighting, but sort of fights for you instead, moving on its own. There's even a scene where Shieldbreaker's wielder desperately does not want to kill his opponent, as she's a dear friend who's been mind controlled into attacking him, but the Sword brutally slaughters her in moments anyway. You can move around as you like and maybe decide who you attack, but with that particular Sword all of the actual attacking is done by the weapon, not the wielder.

Heck, now that I think about it, maybe I should add some sort of clause about Shieldbreaker forcing you to attack if any enemy is in reach. Any comments on that from people who have read the series?

Barmoz
2013-02-20, 01:40 AM
I think you'd have to make the same DC to avoid attacking a target in range as you would to put down the sword.

Soulcutter is a difficult one, in the books, it was practicaly the equivalent of a nuclear weapon, but in a D&D setting, getting around it's power is pretty easy.

Douglas
2013-02-21, 12:59 PM
I think you'd have to make the same DC to avoid attacking a target in range as you would to put down the sword.
Hmm, makes a certain amount of sense. Anyone else with an opinion on this?


Soulcutter is a difficult one, in the books, it was practicaly the equivalent of a nuclear weapon, but in a D&D setting, getting around it's power is pretty easy.
How so, exactly? Mind-affecting immunity just slows things down and isn't that common before quite high level, and I explicitly wrote it to ignore everything else. Restoration spells can cure things after the fact, true, but there's no Mass version of them, they have expensive components, and there could easily be a huge number of people affected.

Kish
2013-02-22, 12:48 PM
It grants four iterative attacks (as a Fighter 20) regardless of the wielder's BAB, and every attack with it is automatically a hit and critical hit.
I'm not quite sure what "iterative attacks" even means here. None of the attacks has a BAB as such, and the fourth attack is as deadly as the first.

Unless you mean that the wielder can choose whether to full attack (for four attacks that round) or not, but from the other things you've said it doesn't sound like the wielder should have any choice about "attack four times per round, every round."

If someone does trick Doomgiver's wielder into drawing Soulcutter, does the trickster (even if hundreds of miles away) then gain two apathy levels per round as long as Soulcutter is drawn?

Douglas
2013-02-22, 01:57 PM
I'm not quite sure what "iterative attacks" even means here. None of the attacks has a BAB as such, and the fourth attack is as deadly as the first.

Unless you mean that the wielder can choose whether to full attack (for four attacks that round) or not, but from the other things you've said it doesn't sound like the wielder should have any choice about "attack four times per round, every round."
It means that the wielder's full attack has four attacks in it (plus any extra from Haste and such), even if the wielder's actual BAB is 0. A level 1 commoner could pick up Shieldbreaker and make four attacks in one round.

As for the choice thing, I'd still like some more discussion about that. I like Barmoz's idea of a will save to avoid attacking, just like for dropping it, but I think even with Shieldbreaker fully engaged you should still be able to move.

What does everyone think of this as an addition for Shieldbreaker?:

Shieldbreaker will always seek to destroy its enemies, potentially ruining more sophisticated plans by its wielder. If an enemy is within reach at the start of Shieldbreaker's wielder's turn, and he does not want to attack that enemy, he must make a will save DC 15 plus the current bonus to strength-based rolls. If this will save fails, he must make at least one attack with Shieldbreaker against an enemy within reach that turn.


If someone does trick Doomgiver's wielder into drawing Soulcutter, does the trickster (even if hundreds of miles away) then gain two apathy levels per round as long as Soulcutter is drawn?
Yes. Depending on the plans and intent of the trickster, he might also end up sporting the 1000' radius aura of Soulcutter.

Kish
2013-02-25, 10:02 AM
Actually, also, if Soulcutter's wielder is confronting Doomgiver's wielder as an enemy, shouldn't Soulcutter's wielder gain 3 apathy levels per round (two normally, one bouncing back from Doomgiver's wielder)?

Douglas
2013-02-25, 08:33 PM
Hmm. Good question. Following that train of thought a little further, though, I realized a potential major weakness in Doomgiver - its power is to swap the source and target of attacks, and would that actually protect against mutual destruction type attacks?

There is only one instance I know of in the books where Doomgiver and Soulcutter face off. It's in a collection of short stories called An Armory of Swords, and most of it was only edited, not written, by Saberhagen so I'm not sure of its canon status. Even in that story, it was a case of someone manipulating another into drawing Soulcutter, hoping for only the victim to be affected. Doomgiver and Soulcutter never have a straightforward confrontation, and I can't think of any other weapon of mutual destruction ever used in the books (Farslayer comes closest, with its cycle of vengeance).

So, opinions please: How should Doomgiver interact with attacks that inherently harm the attacker in addition to the target? This could have a rather major impact on the Sword.

Barmoz
2013-02-25, 09:06 PM
How so, exactly? Mind-affecting immunity just slows things down and isn't that common before quite high level, and I explicitly wrote it to ignore everything else. Restoration spells can cure things after the fact, true, but there's no Mass version of them, they have expensive components, and there could easily be a huge number of people affected.

I guess I didn't really read it closely enough, I was thinking a construct or golem wouldn't be affected, and could just walk up and smash. I still think I might make the DC higher. Are there any examples in the books of anyone resisting the effect? The challenge of Shieldbreaker is it's melee ability, which is basically unresistable, if Soulcutter's ability is the apathy effect, it should be equally powerful in its own way. At a minimum, resisting the main power of Soulcutter should be more difficult than putting down Shieldbreaker. (and I feel that save being 20 is too low as well)

Douglas
2013-02-25, 09:48 PM
I guess I didn't really read it closely enough, I was thinking a construct or golem wouldn't be affected, and could just walk up and smash. I still think I might make the DC higher. Are there any examples in the books of anyone resisting the effect?
Soulcutter is only actually used twice, as I recall. One of those events is the one I just referenced in the short story, where Doomgiver bounces the effect back at a manipulator. The other is in a major army battle against the wielder of the Mindsword.

For that other event:
It ends with everyone in both armies sprawled on the ground, too apathetic to do anything.
The Mindsword's wielder walked away rather than try to finish the fight. What I remember of the description is that he was, with the Mindsword's help, barely resisting Soulcutter.
The Mindsword's side is specifically noted as having a temporary advantage due to their Sword-inspired fervor.
No one present is noted as having any special protection against it other than the Mindsword's effect. The closest anyone gets is that the Mindsword's side has some wizards who specialize in summoning and controlling demons, and I don't recall those wizards ever being noted for skill in manipulating or protecting minds.
Soulcutter is sheathed (and its effect thereby ended) only when an anonymous person walks alone onto the battlefield, sheathes it, and disappears. I don't think either detail is ever explicitly confirmed, but I think the generally accepted explanation is that this person was The Emperor (a mysterious individual who doesn't actually rule much of anything) and he had Shieldbreaker at the time.

So, Soulcutter vs mind-affecting immunity is never really tested in the books.


The challenge of Shieldbreaker is it's melee ability, which is basically unresistable, if Soulcutter's ability is the apathy effect, it should be equally powerful in its own way. At a minimum, resisting the main power of Soulcutter should be more difficult than putting down Shieldbreaker.
Resisting Soulcutter at all already requires being flat out immune to a category that Soulcutter's effect clearly belongs in. Soulcutter can also easily affect hundreds or even thousands of people at once, while Shieldbreaker can only cut one person down at a time. Personally, I think that balances it out reasonably well.

On the other hand, deities are all automatically immune to mind-affecting, and they would all have pretty high saves, yet Soulcutter should affect them anyway... Hmm. How's 30 sound to you for the DC to resist with mind-affecting immunity? The save for recovery afterward seems fine to me as is, maybe even a little too hard.


(and I feel that save being 20 is too low as well)
Keep in mind that it's only that low if you've been intentionally and successfully reining Shieldbreaker in every round since combat began. In any kind of extended engagement, it can easily get much higher.

Acanous
2013-02-25, 10:21 PM
Giving Farslayer to a group of PCs would be an excellent adventure hook.
I suggest making the swords require a Knowledge check to identify their properties, perhaps DC50. Holding a sword grants a +20 bonus on this check.

Douglas
2013-02-25, 10:43 PM
Identifying their properties would be a very campaign-specific thing. I'd run figuring them out in the first place as a pure trial and error affair, with the hilt symbols and (if known) names and song lines giving clues. For knowledge checks, it would very much be a matter of how long the Swords have been around, how much trial and error has been done by various NPCs, and how much word of the results has spread. In this thread, I'm mainly giving the DM's omnipotent view of how they work.

Still looking for opinions on Doomgiver vs mutual destruction attacks.

Acanous
2013-02-25, 11:05 PM
Hmm. Good question. Following that train of thought a little further, though, I realized a potential major weakness in Doomgiver - its power is to swap the source and target of attacks, and would that actually protect against mutual destruction type attacks?

There is only one instance I know of in the books where Doomgiver and Soulcutter face off. It's in a collection of short stories called An Armory of Swords, and most of it was only edited, not written, by Saberhagen so I'm not sure of its canon status. Even in that story, it was a case of someone manipulating another into drawing Soulcutter, hoping for only the victim to be affected. Doomgiver and Soulcutter never have a straightforward confrontation, and I can't think of any other weapon of mutual destruction ever used in the books (Farslayer comes closest, with its cycle of vengeance).

So, opinions please: How should Doomgiver interact with attacks that inherently harm the attacker in addition to the target? This could have a rather major impact on the Sword.

There are not many such attacks in 3.5, and you've alreadydetailed interactions with the Swords that would count as such.
The examples I can think of are Epic, Exalted, and Vile spells. In such case, I'd have Doomgiver's weilder take the weaker of the effects. For instance, if someone cast a spell that made them take 4 points of CON damage but dealt 200 damage, Doomgiver's weilder would take the 4 points of CON. The caster would take the 200 damage.

In cases where it is an Area of Effect spell, Doomgiver bounces the spell to an area that includes the caster, but not Doomgiver's weilder.

Kish
2013-02-26, 12:15 PM
I haven't read much of the books yet. My question would be, is Doomgiver officially the second most powerful of the Swords, or is that your interpretation?

If it's the former, then definitely Doomgiver should turn Soulcutter's effect back on itself with no harm to Doomgiver's wielder. The other way would indicate that Soulcutter trumps Doomgiver, not in the indirect way Woundhealer could defeat Shieldbreaker in the end, but in just...ignoring Doomgiver while being used in its standard way.

Douglas
2013-02-26, 12:27 PM
I'd have to go back and reread it to be certain, but a wizard-type character has a vision of the Swords at one point, and I believe that vision explicitly places Shieldbreaker and Doomgiver at the top, in that order. Further, (spoiler for end of book three)when Vulcan goes on his rampage with Shieldbreaker, he mentally notes that Doomgiver is the only opposition he was at all concerned about.

That alone isn't enough for me to automatically say Doomgiver wins against Soulcutter, though. Throughout the books there are two major principles for Sword interactions, both with each other and with everything else. The first is that more powerful beats less powerful, true, but that is primarily in Shieldbreaker trumping everything. The second is that beating a Sword is done by exploiting the nature of the Sword's power, not by overcoming it with a greater power. The question here is not which Sword is more powerful, but whether the nature of Doomgiver's power is vulnerable to mutual destruction attacks.

Douglas
2013-02-27, 09:00 PM
I'm going to go with mutual destruction attacks (including Soulcutter) beating Doomgiver. It's a hefty dose of speculation with no real evidence from the books to back it up, but there is no evidence against it either, it makes a reasonable amount of sense, and it gives Doomgiver a much needed vulnerability. Without it, Doomgiver is invincibility on crack with no holes short of Shieldbreaker, and even for a Sword that's a little much. I will be editing Doomgiver's and Soulcutter's entries accordingly.

And now, what you've all (or several of you, at least) been waiting for:
Townsaver
aka the Sword of Fury
Symbol: A sword raised above a stylized segment of castle wall
Long roads the Sword of Fury makes
Hard walls it builds around the soft
The fighter who Townsaver takes
Can bid farewell to home and croft
Base stats: +7 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:

In most circumstances Townsaver is merely a normal magic weapon with an abnormally high enhancement bonus. Its true power is only revealed when it is used to defend noncombatants.

When wielded in defense of a fixed location where people who are unarmed or untrained with weapons live or have taken shelter, Townsaver emits a high pitched buzzing sound and a thin streak of smoke. By this sign, observers can know that its full power is active. All of the rest of this special power description applies only in this circumstance.

Townsaver grants offensive power matched only by Shieldbreaker. The wielder has four iterative attacks (as a Fighter 20) regardless of his BAB, and every attack with Townsaver is automatically a hit and critical hit. Townsaver automatically bypasses all damage reduction, even DR/-. The wielder's strength score is increased to 30 for all attacks with Townsaver unless it is already higher.

Even more than the destruction of its enemies, Townsaver seeks to block efforts to harm the noncombatants it is defending. Townsaver's wielder may make an unlimited number of attacks of opportunity (which automatically hit and crit) with Townsaver against foes who attempt to move through his threatened area towards the place he is defending. Further, Townsaver will drag him into the path of any ranged or reach attacks that pass within one 5' square of his position. Such attacks automatically target him instead of their intended target, and he gains no benefit from dexterity or any dodge bonuses to AC against these attacks.

So long as an imminent threat remains, Townsaver's wielder cannot die or be stopped from fighting. No matter how much damage he takes, he remains alive, conscious, and at full combat capability. Any spell or ability that would instantly kill him instead deals damage equal to his maximum hit points plus 10. He gains continuous Freedom of Movement, and can ignore the normal consequences of having any ability score reduced to 0. He can ignore any spell, condition, or effect that would prevent him from continuing to fight in defense of his charge.

Townsaver cannot be disarmed.
Weakness:

While Townsaver prevents its wielder from being slain or disabled, it does not protect him from harm. He may win a battle only to die from his wounds the instant the last enemy is gone and Townsaver's power shuts down. Anyone planning to use Townsaver would be well advised to get the best protection he can and to arrange for a lot of in-battle healing.

Townsaver is also of very limited use offensively, as the abilities that make it such a devastating weapon will only activate when the wielder is defending.

As with Shieldbreaker, Townsaver is difficult to fully control. If an enemy is within reach at the start of Townsaver's wielder's turn, and he does not want to attack that enemy, he must make a will save DC 25. If this will save fails, he must make at least one attack with Townsaver against an enemy within reach that turn. Any attempt to sheathe or drop Townsaver requires a will save DC 30.
Interactions with other Swords:

Shieldbreaker: Townsaver has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: Townsaver's attacks against Doomgiver's wielder will be reflected, dealing automatic critical hit damage to Townsaver's wielder (if Townsaver's special power is active).
Coinspinner: Townsaver's automatic hit and crit confirm power bypasses Coinspinner's effect on die rolls, but there is no other special interaction between these two.
The Mindsword: When actively defending noncombatants, Townsaver's wielder is immune to the Mindsword's domination. He is liable to find his charges pouring out to gleefully surrender and pledge their loyalty, however, and once they have all abandoned his shelter Townsaver will deactivate.
Farslayer: If Townsaver is fully active when Farslayer strikes Townsaver's wielder, Townsaver will keep him alive until the end of battle. If he receives sufficient healing before combat ends, this may be enough to save him.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder can fool Townsaver's wielder, but not Townsaver itself. Attempting to sneak past with Sightblinder, intending to attack those Townsaver is defending, will result in Townsaver taking an attack of opportunity against Sightblinder's wielder regardless of Townsaver's wielder's perceptions.
Soulcutter: If Townsaver is fully active, it will prevent its wielder from collapsing in despair from too many apathy levels. It will not prevent acquiring the apathy levels in the first place, however, so he will most likely collapse as soon as combat ends.
Dragonslicer: Townsaver has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Townsaver has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Townsaver has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Woundhealer: Townsaver has no special interaction with Woundhealer.
Destruction:

Townsaver can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Zevankar
2013-03-02, 01:34 PM
Are you forced to attack with Townsaver if there are enemies within range? I noticed you added something to Shieldbreaker to make this happen.

Also, you mentioned protecting people in a fixed location. Would the swords power then not function if you we're trying to protect a caravan full of women and children?

Barmoz
2013-03-04, 08:50 PM
I love Townsaver, I'd make it so when the sword is "active" the weilder cannot chose to fight defensively. And I'd rephrase your comment in the weakness section, calling a +7 longsword "of limited use offensively" is kind of silly. The big question as asked already is, what constitutes a situation that would allow it to be active?

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-03-04, 09:09 PM
Are you forced to attack with Townsaver if there are enemies within range? I noticed you added something to Shieldbreaker to make this happen.

Also, you mentioned protecting people in a fixed location. Would the swords power then not function if you we're trying to protect a caravan full of women and children?

Maybe. In the books it explicitly requires a constructed or fortified location. In the books a character with Townsaver is attacked by bandits while alone on the road and can't defend himself with it (because he has no idea how to use a sword and it's merely a very sharp blade when inactive). However, another character, when attacked in the crumbling ruins of a castle with a few women and children hiding on the floor above him, is able to activate it just fine.

If you were attacked on a road while escorting some noncombatants, you couldn't defend anyone, but if you all ran to a nearby barn then you could. If you circled the wagons and took a stand, then it might activate. Ultimately the sword decides whether whatever you're doing qualifies.

Kish
2013-03-04, 10:59 PM
While I haven't read all the books, and so I may be missing something later on that contradicts this, based on the description of Sir Andrew slaughtering his Mindsword-bedazzled former followers, I'd add a clause to Shieldbreaker's weakness stating that anyone who has cast a hostile spell at Shieldbreaker's wielder during that battle counts as "armed," even if s/he is not carrying a weapon as such.

Douglas
2013-03-04, 11:58 PM
Are you forced to attack with Townsaver if there are enemies within range? I noticed you added something to Shieldbreaker to make this happen.
Good point, I should probably add that. I'll get to it sometime tomorrow, probably.


Also, you mentioned protecting people in a fixed location. Would the swords power then not function if you we're trying to protect a caravan full of women and children?
It's named Townsaver, not Noncombatantsaver. Yes, you need a fixed location where people have holed up and are waiting things out while you fight. A cave would do, and circling the wagons or just hiding in one wagon that's parked might also qualify, but a group that is on the move does not.


I love Townsaver, I'd make it so when the sword is "active" the weilder cannot chose to fight defensively.
Back in the first book, in the preparations for the big battle defending a certain city, I remember that one of the reasons they gave Townsaver to the specific person they did was that he was a skilled fighter and would be better able to defend himself. Based on that, I'm not so sure a prohibition on defensive fighting really matches the books.


And I'd rephrase your comment in the weakness section, calling a +7 longsword "of limited use offensively" is kind of silly.
Well yes, it is still +7 when inactive, but that's practically nothing compared to its active power. That remark's intent is about how Townsaver being inactive downgrades it from "build a major part of our battle strategy around it" to "our best soldier now has a sharper weapon."


The big question as asked already is, what constitutes a situation that would allow it to be active?
You need two ingredients: noncombatants, and a fixed location. I would also say that the fixed location needs some kind of obvious boundary markers, you can't just have people sit down in the middle of a wide open field. If you meet those requirements, I'd say you qualify.


If you were attacked on a road while escorting some noncombatants, you couldn't defend anyone, but if you all ran to a nearby barn then you could. If you circled the wagons and took a stand, then it might activate. Ultimately the sword decides whether whatever you're doing qualifies.
Pretty much.


While I haven't read all the books, and so I may be missing something later on that contradicts this, based on the description of Sir Andrew slaughtering his Mindsword-bedazzled former followers, I'd add a clause to Shieldbreaker's weakness stating that anyone who has cast a hostile spell at Shieldbreaker's wielder during that battle counts as "armed," even if s/he is not carrying a weapon as such.
It's been a while since I've read that part, but as I recall the description sounds like she's casting Polymorph-type spells on herself, turning her into a fearsome monstrous brute. As such, she actually was armed when she got in reach - with natural weapons. If she had thrown Fireballs and other such things instead, I think she might have been fine.

If you're holding the charge on a touch spell, that should count as a weapon. Other than that, I don't think spellcasting ability should count, nor should your past actions. Shieldbreaker is quite consistent that it operates based on what you've got right now.

Kish
2013-03-05, 08:54 AM
It's been a while since I've read that part, but as I recall the description sounds like she's casting Polymorph-type spells on herself, turning her into a fearsome monstrous brute. As such, she actually was armed when she got in reach - with natural weapons. If she had thrown Fireballs and other such things instead, I think she might have been fine.
"The Knight roared again, in greater agony than before. Denis saw that Dame Yoldi, possessed, a creature of evil hatred, her face hideously transformed, was closing in on Sir Andrew. Her hands were outspread like claws, as if to rend, and she cried out desperate spells of magic. Even Denis the unmagical could feel the backwash of their deadly, immaterial power.
To the Sword of Force the tools of magic were no more than any other weapons. They were dissolved and broken against that gleaming curve almost invisible with speed, that brutal thudding in the air. Dame Yoldi's hatred propelled her closer, closer, to the man she would destroy, and closer still, until the edge of the bright arc of force touched her, hands first, body an eyeblink later, and wiped her away."

bookguy
2013-03-09, 03:16 AM
This is awesome! I'm now reading the books, because of this thread.

Kish
2013-03-10, 11:24 AM
I recently finished reading Sightblinder's novel. Some thoughts:
Sightblinder has a weakness. It can't be directly controlled (you can't, for example, tell it to make you look like an enemy's secretary) and it can't be turned off. It makes the wielder extremely conspicuous at all times. If you walk through a town with it, half the people in the town will flee in terror, while the other half react to seeing what appears to be a loved one, quite possibly a dead loved one.

I'd also add to the passage that mentions that Sightblinder can appear as a Sword, disguise itself as another weapon, or be invisible that Sightblinder will rarely if ever appear as itself. If its wielder appears to be a demon, a dragon, a helpless child or otherwise someone who wouldn't have a weapon, it will be invisible; if it appears to be a Sword the Sword it appears to be will probably be Shieldbreaker.

Kish
2013-03-13, 10:03 AM
(Just finished another book, and am now two books from the end of the Lost Swords series.)
And the Mindsword causes madness, in its wielder and in everyone around it. The fanatic devotion inspired by the Mindsword turns into, "And I must discredit or get rid of anyone else you might rely on more than me, for only I perfectly realize your glory," while the wielder of the Mindsword went by easy stages from "I will never draw it, I'm just going to use it to make amends for a horrible crime I committed" to, "I had to draw it once, but I'm not going to draw it again," to, "These farmers deserve to suffer for not doing what I want," to, "How dare the woman I started out planning to make amends to not be perfectly loyal to me!"


The Mindsword's influence is impervious to diplomacy, bluff, and even the most potent of spells - even Dominate spells cannot force someone affected by the Mindsword to act against its wielder or disobey his commands
Not even Dominate spells should force the Mindsword victim to act directly and knowingly against the Sword's wielder, but Suggesting that "the best thing you could possibly do for your glorious master would be to kill [other ally or slave of the Mindsword's wielder]" should be really easy, and any Suggestion should work as long as it's possible for the victim to believe the Suggested course of action is in the Sword-wielder's best interests, including Suggestions to disobey a direct order. It didn't take the victims long at all to start thinking in terms of "blind obedience is not the best way to express my loyalty."

Douglas
2013-03-14, 08:56 PM
I have added "must attack" clauses to both Shieldbreaker and Townsaver.


"The Knight roared again, in greater agony than before. Denis saw that Dame Yoldi, possessed, a creature of evil hatred, her face hideously transformed, was closing in on Sir Andrew. Her hands were outspread like claws, as if to rend, and she cried out desperate spells of magic. Even Denis the unmagical could feel the backwash of their deadly, immaterial power.
To the Sword of Force the tools of magic were no more than any other weapons. They were dissolved and broken against that gleaming curve almost invisible with speed, that brutal thudding in the air. Dame Yoldi's hatred propelled her closer, closer, to the man she would destroy, and closer still, until the edge of the bright arc of force touched her, hands first, body an eyeblink later, and wiped her away."[/spoiler]
Fair enough. I added a clause about the ability to cast spells of the variety that would be blocked also qualifying for "armed" status.


I recently finished reading Sightblinder's novel. Some thoughts:
Sightblinder has a weakness. It can't be directly controlled (you can't, for example, tell it to make you look like an enemy's secretary) and it can't be turned off. It makes the wielder extremely conspicuous at all times. If you walk through a town with it, half the people in the town will flee in terror, while the other half react to seeing what appears to be a loved one, quite possibly a dead loved one.
As I recall, that only really happens when the wielder has no idea what he's got or specifically wants that effect. When used by knowing wielders, it consistently allows deliberate and potentially long term deceptions.
Draffut spying on the gods by appearing as a god. Mark walking into an enemy camp disguised as someone who could legitimately demand to be taken to Vilkata's HQ with no questions asked, and then maintaining that single disguise for days or weeks. Mark's son, I forget his name, walking up to a major enemy (this might be after your current point in the series) disguised as someone who would be both expected and not perceived as a threat.


I'd also add to the passage that mentions that Sightblinder can appear as a Sword, disguise itself as another weapon, or be invisible that Sightblinder will rarely if ever appear as itself. If its wielder appears to be a demon, a dragon, a helpless child or otherwise someone who wouldn't have a weapon, it will be invisible; if it appears to be a Sword the Sword it appears to be will probably be Shieldbreaker.
Heh. Shieldbreaker would be a good choice quite a lot of the time, for either intimidation or tricking an expert into trying to go unarmed against you.


(Just finished another book, and am now two books from the end of the Lost Swords series.)
And the Mindsword causes madness, in its wielder and in everyone around it. The fanatic devotion inspired by the Mindsword turns into, "And I must discredit or get rid of anyone else you might rely on more than me, for only I perfectly realize your glory," while the wielder of the Mindsword went by easy stages from "I will never draw it, I'm just going to use it to make amends for a horrible crime I committed" to, "I had to draw it once, but I'm not going to draw it again," to, "These farmers deserve to suffer for not doing what I want," to, "How dare the woman I started out planning to make amends to not be perfectly loyal to me!"
It's unclear how much of that is the Sword and how much is a natural "power corrupts" phenomenon.


Not even Dominate spells should force the Mindsword victim to act directly and knowingly against the Sword's wielder, but Suggesting that "the best thing you could possibly do for your glorious master would be to kill [other ally or slave of the Mindsword's wielder]" should be really easy, and any Suggestion should work as long as it's possible for the victim to believe the Suggested course of action is in the Sword-wielder's best interests, including Suggestions to disobey a direct order. It didn't take the victims long at all to start thinking in terms of "blind obedience is not the best way to express my loyalty."
Suggestion could work, but I'd say you have to give a plausible reason for it to be beneficial to the Mindsword's wielder.

Jodah
2013-03-16, 01:15 AM
Well, I just stumbled across this and love it. I have been constructing a world that was in every way awesome (at least to me). The problem I had been facing was that I did not have any sort of plot. The nations/cultures were (intentionally) balanced and coexisting. The major deities were non-involved and the lesser ones were more spirits of the land protecting the area. So basically, the part could explore and fight random monsters but there was no real plot. Now I think I will adopt these into the world, let them wander (adventuring is an actual profession as far as I am concerned), and then roll a die and have one of the enemy of one of the characters (or a bad description) kill someone randomly with Farslayer - and let their curiosity and revenge set them forth.

These are changes I plan to make (mainly due to some balance issues and not having read the books so I have less loyalty to them). I am posting for critique and so others can see it if they have similar reservations. A lot of these are to make sure that it makes sense that someone didn't track down Shiledbreak, scry on the one that can find swords and collect them all fairly easily. I will likewise edit this list as the other 4 are released.


Shieldbreaker will remain the most powerful but because it cares about attacks and combat it will not be able to stop Sightblinder from deceiving the weilder (though 50% chance of seeing a dragon may get you killed as the draw the weapon and go to town). Same goes for Doomgiver.
Townsaver beats all when activated (again, disabling Shieldbreaker and Doomgiver from reigning as supreme).
Farslayer gets a fair shot at not being sundered (though is still harmless).
If the swords are shattered the pieces will call to each other (LotR Ring style) and will be repaired by connecting the pieces (and I think a price, probably a life - probably the unsuspecting mender if they didn't prepare).


Again, thanks for making these. Very cool artifacts.

Fjolnir
2013-03-17, 10:11 AM
One thing that needs to be added to Coinspinner is the immediate and potentially retributive reversal of fortune that comes if you are relying on its power and it is somehow removed from your control. Remember, the first holder is killed during a dice game when he removed his hand from the sword's pommel, it is implied that he was using his luck powers to influence the game and his breaking his grasp on the sword was enough to cause that luck to immediately reverse itself upon the user.

Also Farslayer's ability is a death curse. You die when putting your vengeance into the blade and releasing it, which empowers the blade with the supernatural ability to inflict death on whomever you use it on. Woundhealer used prophylacticaly may be enough to counter this aspect of the weapon but beyond that I doubt it.

Woundhealer in addition to being a weapon that can only heal, can be used prophylacticaly by stabbing it into oneself and leaving it there, it will prevent the user from dying to wounds by healing them fully if this is done, potentially allowing you to use farslayer without dying.

Stonecutter/Dragonslayer are specialized blades, while magic swords and good swords in general outside of their special use they are merely that. Dragonslayer also requires a very high strength check to remove the blade from the dragon it slays.

I look forward to the completion of this project but remember that townsaver, farslayer and the soulblade are all fatal swords, that is once drawn and used, it is likely the final act of the wielder.

Fjolnir
2013-03-17, 01:36 PM
With a miracle, a PC could nullify the swords provided the right deity had the power to grant such a thing. I've never been especially keen on how the gods were portrayed in the books. The books set up the inherent problem of Vulcan being unable to unmake the swords, which is silly in its own right. In D&D, there are gods far more powerful than Vulcan. Invoking an overdeity would not be out of the question. You cannot reconcile these things to any real satisfaction. I would not expect you to. However, it does beg the question of allowing the PCs to have that much power and what happens if only one PC gets only one of these swords. Save us from the munchin and powergamer is all I say.

Debby

This world is the same as the world in Empire of the East, the only gods out there (save ardneh, who is dead) are the ones created by Ardneh's sword, who are all people who were transended and have human failings and a portfolio.

Kish
2013-03-17, 01:47 PM
One thing that needs to be added to Coinspinner is the immediate and potentially retributive reversal of fortune that comes if you are relying on its power and it is somehow removed from your control. [spoiler]Remember, the first holder is killed during a dice game when he removed his hand from the sword's pommel, it is implied that he was using his luck powers to influence the game and his breaking his grasp on the sword was enough to cause that luck to immediately reverse itself upon the user.

No, he died shortly after the Duke's men took the sword from him, because his gambling partners thought he'd probably been cheating.

I agree that losing Coinspinner appears to be frequently lethal, but nowhere near as directly as you're saying.


Also Farslayer's ability is a death curse. You die when putting your vengeance into the blade and releasing it, which empowers the blade with the supernatural ability to inflict death on whomever you use it on.

Uh. What? No. Baron Doon died because, shortly after throwing Farslayer and killing Hermes, he attacked someone who had Shieldbreaker. Vulcan didn't die at all until he faded (after all the other gods had). Black Pearl was killed by a demon, after throwing Farslayer twice and killing two people. The members of the two feuding families died because of people on the other side throwing the sword, not because it directly killed the wielder. Soft Ripple and Valdemar didn't die at all. Baron Amintor threw Farslayer in Woundhealer's Story and was still around seven books later. Farslayer's thrower often dies shortly thereafter, either because the sword gets thrown back by someone else or because of another side effect of obsessive vengeance (...and I do think the first post could use to mention the obsessive vengeance part more, but I think douglas is choosing to leave out all the more "soft" parts of the various Swords' curses), but the sword doesn't directly kill its wielder.

Kish
2013-03-17, 09:13 PM
On an unrelated note, considering Shieldbreaker's ability to completely destroy demons without concern for where their hidden lives are, it should probably have a similar effect on liches.

Debihuman
2013-03-18, 05:44 AM
This world is the same as the world in Empire of the East, the only gods out there (save ardneh, who is dead) are the ones created by Ardneh's sword, who are all people who were transended and have human failings and a portfolio.

But that's not necessarily the D&D world setting that is going to be used with the sword. And Saberhagen purposefully made gods weaker to showcase the swords. If Vulcan could unmake the sword, the plot would have fallen apart. And AFAIK, Ardneh hasn't been homebrewed yet.

The problem with translating items, even characters and other things into 3.5 stats is that what works in the books doesn't necessarily work in the game. I firmly believe that the rules are more important than the flavor.

How the swords interact with each is fine. The problem stems from how they interact with other 3.5 items of equal or higher powers. Should any of the swords come into contact with a sphere of annihalation, it would be destroyed since that is what the sphere does. I don't think it's fair to say the sword is immune to that because those items weren't in the books.

It's all well and good to describe how the swords interact with each other. But that doesn't explain how they work with other 3.5 items.

Debby

Kish
2013-03-18, 05:56 AM
My response to Debihuman's post is not at all on topic for this thread, so I'm posting it in the D&D forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14916664#post14916664).

Triaxx
2013-03-18, 07:07 AM
I think this is an awesome homebrew. I'm kind of curious to see the interaction between Stonecutter and Townsaver. If Townsaver requires walls, and Stonecutter is used to bring them down, does Townsaver shut down?

I never actually finished reading the series, for various reasons, but I always figured the way to end it was to have Stonecutter and Shieldbreaker come into direct contention and destroy one another.

I only ever suspected Woundhealer, and Coinspinner would survive. Coinspinner because it would find the most beneficial action it could take would be to fall from it's weilders hands and subsequently vanish when attacked by Shieldbreaker, while Woundhealer is not capable of attacking as far as I know, so it's not a 'weapon' persay.

Fjolnir
2013-03-18, 07:25 AM
Townsaver does not require an actual town, in the first book one of the characters uses it to defend a group of refugees from the grey horde, complete with its standard power set.

Also I would argue that the gods significantly weakened themselves by imbuing their power into the swords for the purpose of the game.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-03-18, 11:31 AM
I agree that the Swords should be tweaked to prevent Shieldbreaker from being indisputably the best. One of the best tweaks will probably be the ability to re-forge a Sword using blood sacrifice. In the books their hilts remained when they were destroyed.


Also I would argue that the gods significantly weakened themselves by imbuing their power into the swords for the purpose of the game.

Actually...

The gods sprang into being because they were being worshipped, one of the older gods (the god of healing or beastlord) knew this and it's mentioned in passing in the first couple of books. They thought they were omnipotent, when in truth they were actually drawing their power from their mortal worshippers. The Swords themselves were empowered by strong magic that came from the blood sacrifice of several humans, magic that was drawn up in a ritual performed on a mountain, and shaped by the master smith Vulcan. Their power didn't come from the gods, it came from magic. The reason the Swords worked on the gods was because the gods were not omnipotent, and were subject to the rules of magic.


I think this is an awesome homebrew. I'm kind of curious to see the interaction between Stonecutter and Townsaver. If Townsaver requires walls, and Stonecutter is used to bring them down, does Townsaver shut down?

Townsaver works on any "fortified position", which is rather vague. I'm sure that innocents hiding in the rubble would still count for Townsaver's purposes. However, the wielder of Stonecutter could topple walls onto Townsaver's wielder, and Townsaver would do nothing to protect him (though it's likely that Townsaver would keep him fighting even with every bone in his body broken).


I never actually finished reading the series, for various reasons, but I always figured the way to end it was to have Stonecutter and Shieldbreaker come into direct contention and destroy one another.

I doubt it. Stonecutter only works on rocks, not Swords. Finding a situation that would leave all of the Swords destroyed could be the ultimate goal of an epic adventure.


I only ever suspected Woundhealer, and Coinspinner would survive. Coinspinner because it would find the most beneficial action it could take would be to fall from it's weilders hands and subsequently vanish when attacked by Shieldbreaker, while Woundhealer is not capable of attacking as far as I know, so it's not a 'weapon' persay.

Funny thing, if Coinspinner did that then its wielder would then be protected from Shieldbreaker because he would suddenly be unarmed. A clever wielder could use this to his advantage in a feint. However, this is not much better than dropping your weapon when attacked by Shieldbreaker, and costs you a Sword because you're not likely to get Coinspinner back. Coinspinner is notoriously fickle and usually decides to leave its wielder at the worst moment possible.

Fjolnir
2013-03-18, 12:11 PM
Coinspinner is the only sword known to move on its own volition without being envoked as the second book has mark and ben talk about how it will often be on the other side of the room from when they put it among other things.

Triaxx
2013-03-18, 03:27 PM
I didn't recall a specific restriction on Stonecutter. I thought it just cut anything hard. Of course it's been more than ten years since I read the books, so I'm forgetting a lot probably.

Douglas
2013-03-18, 08:36 PM
A lot of these are to make sure that it makes sense that someone didn't track down Shiledbreak, scry on the one that can find swords and collect them all fairly easily.
In the book series, pretty much every major power is constantly trying to acquire all the Swords. Having one Sword makes you a target. Having multiples makes you a BIG target. And, powerful as they are, there are holes in their defenses and people with the resources of nations behind them can and will exploit those holes. If some adventuring party collected, say, 4 or 5 Swords, I'd expect them to very quickly get embroiled in the middle of a 6-way conflict between various elite strike forces, with a high chance of one or more of these groups managing to grab a Sword and then cut their losses and run with it.



Shieldbreaker will remain the most powerful but because it cares about attacks and combat it will not be able to stop Sightblinder from deceiving the weilder (though 50% chance of seeing a dragon may get you killed as the draw the weapon and go to town). Same goes for Doomgiver.
Townsaver beats all when activated (again, disabling Shieldbreaker and Doomgiver from reigning as supreme).
Farslayer gets a fair shot at not being sundered (though is still harmless).
If the swords are shattered the pieces will call to each other (LotR Ring style) and will be repaired by connecting the pieces (and I think a price, probably a life - probably the unsuspecting mender if they didn't prepare).

You are, of course, free to make whatever alterations you like for use in your own personal campaign, but all of these are quite explicit breaks from the book depictions. There are multiple occasions where someone with Shieldbreaker sees through Sightblinder, Townsaver is fully active when it is destroyed by Shieldbreaker, Farslayer is destroyed by someone using it and then smugly drawing Shieldbreaker and waiting for the return throw, and Vulcan himself was unable to find enough shards to do anything with even moments after a Sword was destroyed on two separate occasions.


Again, thanks for making these. Very cool artifacts.
You're welcome, though a lot of the credit goes to Saberhagen.


One thing that needs to be added to Coinspinner is the immediate and potentially retributive reversal of fortune that comes if you are relying on its power and it is somehow removed from your control. Remember, the first holder is killed during a dice game when he removed his hand from the sword's pommel, it is implied that he was using his luck powers to influence the game and his breaking his grasp on the sword was enough to cause that luck to immediately reverse itself upon the user.

Also Farslayer's ability is a death curse. You die when putting your vengeance into the blade and releasing it, which empowers the blade with the supernatural ability to inflict death on whomever you use it on. Woundhealer used prophylacticaly may be enough to counter this aspect of the weapon but beyond that I doubt it.
I agree with Kish's refutations of these.


I look forward to the completion of this project but remember that townsaver, farslayer and the soulblade are all fatal swords, that is once drawn and used, it is likely the final act of the wielder.
There is a quite substantial chance of that, yes, particularly with Farslayer, but only Soulcutter directly harms the wielder.


On an unrelated note, considering Shieldbreaker's ability to completely destroy demons without concern for where their hidden lives are, it should probably have a similar effect on liches.
I'm not so sure about that. Shieldbreaker's power is, in a nutshell, to overcome all other weapons. Thus, the weakness to foes who have no weapons. In-setting, demons originated as the detonations of nukes. They are, in a quite literal sense, living weapons. Thus, Shieldbreaker destroys them directly as it does to weapons, and I think that's the real reason it trumps the normal way they work so completely. The same logic does not apply to liches.


I agree that the Swords should be tweaked to prevent Shieldbreaker from being indisputably the best. One of the best tweaks will probably be the ability to re-forge a Sword using blood sacrifice. In the books their hilts remained when they were destroyed.
Being indisputably the best is pretty much Shieldbreaker's core concept, though. And it does have that pesky weakness to unarmed...

The hilts remained, yes, but even Vulcan went looking for shards of the blades and didn't think reforging would be possible without them.


Funny thing, if Coinspinner did that then its wielder would then be protected from Shieldbreaker because he would suddenly be unarmed. A clever wielder could use this to his advantage in a feint. However, this is not much better than dropping your weapon when attacked by Shieldbreaker, and costs you a Sword because you're not likely to get Coinspinner back. Coinspinner is notoriously fickle and usually decides to leave its wielder at the worst moment possible.
This actually happens in one of the short stories in An Armory of Swords. Coinspinner's wielder goes up against Shieldbreaker and does not know about Shieldbreaker's weakness. Coinspinner teleports away an instant before he would have been skewered, and he wrestles his way to victory after recovering from the surprise of not being dead.


I didn't recall a specific restriction on Stonecutter. I thought it just cut anything hard. Of course it's been more than ten years since I read the books, so I'm forgetting a lot probably.
Stonecutter is quite specific that it cuts stone. Nothing else (not counting things that a very sharp blade would normally cut without needing magic).

Anyway, have another one:
Dragonslicer
aka the Sword of Heroes
Symbol: A stylized dragon
Dragonslicer, Dragonslicer, how d'you slay?
Reaching for the heart in behind the scales.
Dragonslicer, Dragonslicer, where d'you stay?
In the belly of the giant that my blade impales.
Base stats: +6 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:

Dragonslicer is the great bane of all dragonkind, killing even the mightiest Wyrm with ease. Against other foes, however, it is merely a normal magic weapon.

Unlike Shieldbreaker and Townsaver, Dragonslicer does not render its wielder's skill nearly irrelevant. It merely provides extremely potent advantages against its chosen foes. Against dragons, Dragonslicer ignores all natural armor bonuses, all damage reduction (even DR/-), and has triple its normal crit range (15-20). Its enhancement bonus is increased by 6 against dragons, and it deals an additional 6d6 damage to any dragon it strikes. Any normal hit against a dragon kills it instantly unless it succeeds on a fortitude save DC 25. For critical hits, the save DC is 35 instead.

Dragonslicer can cut through dragon scales, flesh, and bone with ease whether or not the dragon is alive. Using Dragonslicer as a special crafting tool grants a +10 circumstance bonus to craft checks to make armor or other items from dragon hide and other dragon body parts. Dragonslicer can also cut through such items easily if its opponent is wearing them. Dragonhide armor and shields provide no AC bonus against Dragonslicer's attacks.
Weakness:

Dragonslicer provides no particular defense against dragons, so it is up to the wielder's resources to either survive a dragon's wrath or achieve the first blow.
Interactions with other Swords:

Shieldbreaker: Dragonslicer has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: Dragonslicer's attacks can be reflected by Doomgiver just like any other weapon, even if Doomgiver's wielder is a dragon - though in that case the reflected attack will be rather less potent due to not getting the anti-dragon bonuses.
Coinspinner: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Coinspinner.
The Mindsword: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with the Mindsword.
Farslayer: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Farslayer.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder cannot fool Dragonslicer about whether a particular target is a dragon or not.
Soulcutter: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Soulcutter.
Townsaver: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Townsaver.
Stonecutter: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Woundhealer: Dragonslicer has no special interaction with Woundhealer.
Destruction:

Dragonslicer can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Eurus
2013-03-18, 10:39 PM
Poor Dragonslicer. So mediocre. Yes, of course the massive flying lizard is just going to stand there and let you stab it without, I don't know, flying away or something. :smallamused:

Douglas
2013-03-18, 10:52 PM
Heh. Of course, anyone powerful enough to have any chance of not dying almost instantly should be powerful enough to have access to flight of his own.

But yes, Dragonslicer is a bit on the weak side for a Sword; even within its specialty, in most cases I would prefer one of the other Swords. Shieldbreaker, Doomgiver, or Farslayer, for instance. Or the Mindsword, because who wouldn't like having a great wyrm slave?

The remaining three I haven't posted yet have powers that don't relate to direct offensive combat at all.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-03-18, 11:56 PM
Poor Dragonslicer. So mediocre. Yes, of course the massive flying lizard is just going to stand there and let you stab it without, I don't know, flying away or something. :smallamused:

In the books most dragons larger than a small cow could not fly. One man made a decent living as a dragonslayer for a decade with it. (But he was a competent warrior and was never foolish with it.)

Dragonslicer has the distinction of being the one Sword that is (under most circumstances) not worth killing someone over. Yeah, eventually someone will get greedy, but if you become a famous dragonslayer with it then you're more likely to be politely asked to use it than to be killed for it.

Douglas
2013-03-20, 08:03 PM
There really isn't much to say about Dragonslicer, is there?

Stonecutter
aka the Sword of Siege
Symbol: A wedge driving into a block
The Sword of Siege struck a hammer's blow
With a crash, and a smash, and a tumbled wall.
Stonecutter laid a castle low
With a groan, and a roar, and a tower's fall.
Base stats: +6 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:

Stonecutter cuts through stone as easily as butter, making it a perfect tool for tunneling, destroying stone structures, and fighting stone golems and similar creatures.

When used to attack stone golems, creatures with the [earth] subtype, or other creatures described as being primarily or entirely stone, Stonecutter ignores all natural armor, damage reduction (even DR/-), and hardness, and deals 6d6 extra damage. Stonecutter is far better known for its strategic uses, however.

Stonecutter can carve a hole up to 5' wide in a stone wall up to 2' thick as a full round action. Against thicker stone barriers Stonecutter can tunnel at a rate of 5' every 3 rounds, not including any effort required to remove the carved-out rubble. Slanting the tunnel upwards is one way to deal with the rubble, allowing gravity to remove it. This is rather perilous for anyone further down the tunnel, as it results in several heavy falling objects careening towards anyone in their path.

Dismantling a stone structure with Stonecutter is as simple as tunneling through enough of its foundation. How much is required, and exactly what comes down because of it, depend on the details of the structure.

Using Stonecutter as a special crafting tool grants a +10 circumstance bonus to craft checks to make items composed primarily of stone and gems.
Weakness:

None in particular.
Interactions with other Swords:

Shieldbreaker: Stonecutter has no protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
All others: Stonecutter has no special interactions with any other Swords.
Destruction:

Stonecutter can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-03-20, 10:41 PM
I would add that it grants a +10 enhancement bonus to Craft checks to work with stone and gems.

Douglas
2013-03-23, 03:09 PM
Good point, though as a crafting tool the bonus type should be circumstance. I just added it.

And now, have some plot hook on a stick.
Wayfinder
aka the Sword of Wisdom
Symbol: An arrow
Who holds Wayfinder finds good roads
Its master's step is brisk.
The Sword of Wisdom lightens loads
But adds unto their risk.
Base stats: +6 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:

Wayfinder is very nearly omniscient, and can relay this information to its wielder by pointing.

Wayfinder's simplest use is to ask it a straightforward question that can be answered by pointing. For example, "where is the poison", or "which of these two people is lying". It is not necessary to speak the question aloud, merely thinking it is sufficient. This takes a standard action and requires enough mobility to be able to point Wayfinder in the proper direction. Wayfinder will immediately point in the direction that answers the question correctly.

Wayfinder is far more valuable as a general guide, however. Specify a goal - any goal - and Wayfinder will point the way to both the path to it and any means you will need to travel that path. The goal must be reasonably clearly defined, and possible to achieve, but Wayfinder has no other limitations aside from certain interactions with other Swords. For example, you could specify the goal of acquiring great wealth, and Wayfinder might lead you to - in order - an object with no apparent use, an expert thief who wants the aforementioned object for sentimental value, a poorly guarded mansion, a team of safe-crackers willing to work for the jewels your thief stole from the mansion, and finally a bank with an enormous vault. This usage will, obviously, require a great deal of DM adjudication.

Wayfinder's powers of divination are supreme, unblockable by any mortal magic or even divine powers. Only certain Swords can prevent its proper functioning.
Weakness:

While Wayfinder can guide its wielder to almost anything, it will choose a highly risky path to get there. The path Wayfinder chooses will always be achievable, but will also be difficult and dangerous for all but the simplest and shortest goals. Any attempt to circumvent this by, for example, asking the question of what the safest path is*, fails - and Wayfinder detects such attempts as easily and perfectly as everything else.
*Unless the goal itself is safety, in which case Wayfinder will guide you to maximum safety with complete disregard for anything else you might want to accomplish.
Interactions with other Swords:

All: Except in the cases specifically stated otherwise, Wayfinder can take the capabilities of the other Swords into account when deciding the path it guides its wielder on.
Shieldbreaker: Wayfinder can only guide its wielder to Shieldbreaker if Shieldbreaker is currently unowned or if his intentions are friendly. Any similar quest, such as to defeat Shieldbreaker's wielder, also fails. Wayfinder has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability.
Doomgiver: Wayfinder can only guide its wielder to Doomgiver if Doomgiver is currently unowned or if his intentions are friendly. Any similar quest will either fail or backfire. Asking Wayfinder to guide you to defeat Doomgiver's wielder will instead result in it guiding you to be defeated by Doomgiver's wielder.
Coinspinner: If Wayfinder's wielder's quest would be detrimental to Coinspinner's wielder and there is a reasonable alternative he might choose (DM's judgment), Coinspinner will cause Wayfinder's wielder to choose a different quest.
The Mindsword: Wayfinder has no special interaction with the Mindsword.
Farslayer: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Farslayer.
Sightblinder: Sightblinder can fool Wayfinder's wielder, but not Wayfinder itself.
Soulcutter: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Soulcutter.
Townsaver: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Townsaver.
Dragonslicer: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Woundhealer: Wayfinder has no special interaction with Woundhealer.
Destruction:

Wayfinder can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Zweisteine
2013-03-24, 01:43 AM
Thank you, not for starting up the Swords, but for crediting the author. Now I have a good new series of books to read! (but the swords are cool too, and seem to match what I understand them to do)

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-03-24, 03:57 PM
I would modify Wayfinder to have some combat use against opponents the wielder has trouble seeing (it can guide itself to them as part of the attack). Make it so that when wielded in combat, it negates the normal concealment miss chance for invisibility, lack of light, blindness, fog, and anything that obscures vision.

I would also note that the wielder can point with either the tip or the hilt, as desired.

Douglas
2013-03-24, 09:48 PM
I've always wondered if something like that was what Baron Doon meant by the Sword being "doubly magic" for him, but I don't think it was ever clarified.

I don't recall it ever pointing with the hilt. Pointing with the scabbard still on, yes, but still with the tip. Do you have a specific reference for using the hilt?

Kish
2013-03-25, 06:27 AM
I thought he just meant that his combat skill would let him use it to defeat anyone who didn't have Shieldbreaker (a boast he made more explicitly when he met Mark, Barbara, and Ben). The Sword was magic, of course, and he was claiming his swordfighting skills were also magic.

Fjolnir
2013-03-25, 08:24 AM
One of the major drawbacks of Dragonslayer is that it sticks fast into the body of a slain dragon as well, requiring a strength check to remove it.

Dragonslicer, Dragonslicer, how d'you slay?
Reaching for the heart in behind the scales.
Dragonslicer, Dragonslicer, where d'you stay?
In the belly of the giant that my blade impales

In fact the first book showcases this best, with the famous dragonslayer having to brace against the dead beast's corpse in order to reextract his blade

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-03-25, 02:05 PM
One of the major drawbacks of Dragonslayer is that it sticks fast into the body of a slain dragon as well, requiring a strength check to remove it.

Dragonslicer, Dragonslicer, how d'you slay?
Reaching for the heart in behind the scales.
Dragonslicer, Dragonslicer, where d'you stay?
In the belly of the giant that my blade impales

In fact the first book showcases this best, with the famous dragonslayer having to brace against the dead beast's corpse in order to reextract his blade

Only because he stabbed it. Getting Swords stuck in dragons happened a lot in the first book, if I recall. Maybe it has more to do with dragons having tough hides than the Swords.

Slicing would let it come free easily. Also, this makes the blade less useful against dragonhide armor and shields.

If you want to do it, perhaps it would be best to say that it only happens if the blade's base damage is enough to kill the target before the bonus damage?

Zweisteine
2013-03-25, 02:27 PM
Slicing would let it come free easily. Also, this makes the blade less useful against dragonhide armor and shields.

A good point, but If you think about it, a sword stuck into a massive block of warm butter will be hard to slice out (though pulling it our would be easy). Also, getting stuck in a dragon, and getting stuck in dragonhide are two very different things. With a dragon, there are still muscles that haven't stopped moving just yet, and it isn't too unfeasible to say a blade could get stuck in that.

It might be realistic to say that any critical hit causes the blade to become lodged in the dragon's flesh, but that would make the sword considerably less amazing (unless the dragon's movements free the blade immediately afterwards, unless it's dead).
Perhaps if it only got stuck when it killed with a critical hit...

It might also be wise to set the DC to pull it out at a relatively low value. Having it get stuck on any kill wouldn't be so bad if someone of average strength could get it out by taking 20 on the check, or someone weaker by taking 40 (i.e. spend many minutes slowly working the blade out). But even then...

Kish
2013-03-25, 04:38 PM
Only because he stabbed it. Getting Swords stuck in dragons happened a lot in the first book, if I recall. Maybe it has more to do with dragons having tough hides than the Swords.
Indeed, I never got the impression, the verse aside, that Dragonslicer was any harder to remove from a dragon than any other Sword that skewered one.

The only Sword that actually went away with a dragon it was stuck in was in the very first book, and it wasn't Dragonslicer.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-03-26, 12:56 AM
Actually, it's possible that part of Dragonslayer's power makes it so that all Swords within a mile of it will always get stuck in dragons.

Zweisteine
2013-03-30, 07:37 AM
Perhaps after you put up Woundhealer you could add a section about how to introduce/use the swords in a campaign?

Jodah
2013-03-30, 10:16 PM
Perhaps after you put up Woundhealer you could add a section about how to introduce/use the swords in a campaign?

I feel the easiest way is to show them Wayfinder (for plot on a hook), Coinspinner randomly showing up, or Farseeker.

themourningstar
2013-03-30, 10:33 PM
While I havent read the Lost Swords series, I DID read the Books of the Gods by Saberhagan, and I always thought the masks in those books, that made one a god, would be soooo awesome for D&D. Any plans on making those?

Zweisteine
2013-04-03, 10:33 PM
Hey! Where's woundhealer? You've got some eagerly waiting fans out here, you know!

Bumpitty bump-dy bump

Douglas
2013-04-03, 11:59 PM
Perhaps after you put up Woundhealer you could add a section about how to introduce/use the swords in a campaign?
Maybe. I'd have to think about that, it wasn't part of my original project.


While I havent read the Lost Swords series, I DID read the Books of the Gods by Saberhagan, and I always thought the masks in those books, that made one a god, would be soooo awesome for D&D. Any plans on making those?
It would be difficult to go significantly far beyond "putting this mask on gives you Divine Rank" without detailing the stats of a bunch of specific deities, which isn't really something I want to do.


Hey! Where's woundhealer? You've got some eagerly waiting fans out here, you know!
Sorry, I've been a bit absorbed in gaming recently.

Woundhealer
aka the Sword of Mercy, the Sword of Love, or the Sword of Healing
Symbol: An open human hand
Whose flesh the Sword of Mercy hurts has drawn no breath,
Whose soul it heals has wandered in the night,
Has paid the summing of all debts in death
Has turned to see returning light.
Base stats: +6 Starmetal Medium Longsword
Special powers:

Woundhealer is incapable of harming any living creature. Instead, it heals anyone it strikes. Woundhealer is usable as a weapon only against constructs and undead, though in the latter case it is an exceptionally powerful weapon.

When Woundhealer strikes a living creature, it deals no damage and simultaneously casts Heal, Regenerate, and Greater Restoration on him, each at caster level 30. In addition, it automatically cures the target of any spell or ability that is affecting him and is not harmless. This happens regardless of whether the effect can be ended by Dispel Magic. For area effects, Woundhealer only allows the single individual to ignore the effect, and only if it directly affects him (rather than affecting him by means of affecting things around him). If the target is still in the area of such a spell or ability when Woundhealer is removed, he may succumb again. Woundhealer can only heal any single creature once per round; subsequent hits on the same creature in the same round have no effect.

Woundhealer can be impaled in a creature and left there. Impaling yourself with Woundhealer takes a standard action; impaling someone else can be done as a melee attack. In this situation, Woundhealer casts Heal, Regenerate, and Greater Restoration once per round at the beginning of the subject's turn, and grants ongoing immunity to the effects it would end. While Woundhealer is impaled in a living creature, that creature cannot die. Any spell or effect that would instantly kill him has no effect, and damage can only knock him unconscious no matter how far into the negatives his hit points go. Pulling Woundhealer out without resistance, from a subject either willing or helpless, just takes a standard action. Pulling Woundhealer out from an actively resisting foe can be done with the "grab an item" use of disarm, but Woundhealer counts as well secured.

If used quickly enough, Woundhealer can even repair mortal wounds. If Woundhealer is plunged into the body of a creature that died within 1 round, it casts Revivify on him. This can revive even elementals and outsiders, as well as creatures killed by death effects, but it does still require a reasonably intact body.

When used as a weapon against undead, Woundhealer deals damage as normal for a +6 weapon and also casts Heal (DC 30, caster level 30) on the creature if the attack hits. Against constructs, Woundhealer is merely a regular +6 weapon.
Weakness:

None.
Interactions with other Swords:

Shieldbreaker: If Woundhealer is impaled in a living creature when Shieldbreaker strikes that creature (or Woundhealer directly), Shieldbreaker is destroyed as if by its own sundering ability. In all other cases, Woundhealer has no special protection against Shieldbreaker's sundering ability. Shieldbreaker will not register a swing with Woundhealer as an attack, however, unless Shieldbreaker's wielder is a construct or undead.
Doomgiver: Doomgiver will not prevent Woundhealer from healing anyone, and will only reflect Woundhealer's attacks if Doomgiver's wielder is a construct or undead.
Coinspinner: Woundhealer has no special interaction with Coinspinner.
The Mindsword: Woundhealer can instantly reverse the mental domination of the Mindsword, and grants immunity to the Mindsword's special powers to anyone Woundhealer is impaled in.
Farslayer: If used proactively (pre-impaling) or promptly (within 1 round), Woundhealer can save a living creature from Farslayer. Woundhealer's wielder will even get a new Sword out of the experience - nothing stops him from plucking Farslayer out of the non-corpse it's stuck in.
Sightblinder: Woundhealer can end the panic Sightblinder can cause, but has no other special interaction with Sightblinder.
Soulcutter: Woundhealer's Greater Restoration ability cures apathy levels along with any negative levels.
Townsaver: Woundhealer has no special interaction with Townsaver.
Dragonslicer: Woundhealer has no special interaction with Dragonslicer.
Stonecutter: Woundhealer has no special interaction with Stonecutter.
Wayfinder: Woundhealer has no special interaction with Wayfinder.
Destruction:

Woundhealer can only be destroyed by sundering it with Shieldbreaker.

Zweisteine
2013-04-04, 05:54 AM
So... The trick to keeping would-healer around is to avoid fighting constructs and undead wielding shieldbreaker... Hmmm...

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-04-04, 05:44 PM
I believe that you should explicitly note that none of Shieldbreaker's active effects related to sundering and defense work against Woundhealer unless Shieldbreaker's wielder is undead or a construct. Woundhealer is not properly a weapon. This means that Woundhealer could be used to disarm someone wielding Shieldbreaker.

Okay, I'll take a shot at the rules for restoring a Sword. These are optional rules for those who want them (canonically the Swords were never reforged because no smith had the skill to do so).

A broken Sword always leaves its black hilt. The hilt can be used to re-forge a Sword, but at great cost.

Re-forging a Sword requires 160 gp of wood and iron ore, a forge, a set of smithing tools, and a human sacrifice. The forging must take place on a mountain tall enough to have snow year-round. A smith must spend one week of exertion in re-forging the Sword, and at the end of the week kill the human sacrifice and make a DC 40 Craft (weaponsmithing) check. The human sacrifice must use the aid another action to help the smith for the first six days of the crafting.

If the Craft check fails the materials are wasted and the Sword falls to pieces, leaving the hilt as it was. Otherwise the Sword is successfully restored.

AgentPaper
2013-04-04, 06:24 PM
Okay, I'll take a shot at the rules for restoring a Sword. These are optional rules for those who want them (canonically the Swords were never reforged because no smith had the skill to do so).

A broken Sword always leaves its black hilt. The hilt can be used to re-forge a Sword, but at great cost.

Re-forging a Sword requires 160 gp of wood and iron ore, a forge, a set of smithing tools, and a human sacrifice. The forging must take place on a mountain tall enough to have snow year-round. A smith must spend one week of exertion in re-forging the Sword, and at the end of the week kill the human sacrifice and make a DC 40 Craft (weaponsmithing) check. The human sacrifice must use the aid another action to help the smith for the first six days of the crafting.

If the Craft check fails the materials are wasted and the Sword falls to pieces, leaving the hilt as it was. Otherwise the Sword is successfully restored.

Interesting, but seems much too easy, and not enough potential for plot fun and drama. Alternate rules:




Upon destruction, a sword is shattered into 10d20 shards of various shapes and sizes. Each shard is indistinguishable from a normal shard of steel, except for a few traits. First, each shard is completely indestructible, and cannot be tarnished or modified in any way. Second, each shard is magical in nature, and appears as a +1 magical weapon to detect magic and similar effects.

Most importantly, each shard remembers it's time as a full sword, and if two pieces are placed next to each other in their former orientation, they will stick there. This happens even if the two shards aren't physically touching. This is also true of the hilt that the sword was attached to.

If at least 20% of the shards are re-attached to the hilt from which they originated, it can be used as a +2 Starmetal Medium Longsword. With 40% of the shards, it becomes a +3 Starmetal Medium Longsword. At 60%, it becomes +4 Starmetal Medium Longsword, and at 80%, +5. Once all of the shards and the hilt are reunited, it becomes a +6 Starmetal Medium Longsword.

Once the sword has been fully restored, however, it still does not possess it's former abilities, and in fact, after the last piece is attached, the blade will begin to heat up very quickly. To restore it's full abilities, the blade must be quenched with blood. The sword must be used in a killing blow against a living, intelligent creature. If this is not done within 1 hour of the blade being reformed, then the blade will become extremely hot, effectively gaining the Flaming property. In addition, anyone who wields the weapon will need to make a DC 20 will save each round. If they fail, they plunge the sword into their own heart, killing themselves instantly and sating the sword's thirst for blood.



Edit: Also, you should at least require starmetal to be used in the construction, since that's what the swords are made out of.

Jodah
2013-04-04, 08:51 PM
Interesting, but seems much too easy, and not enough potential for plot fun and drama. Alternate rules:




Upon destruction, a sword is shattered into 10d20 shards of various shapes and sizes. Each shard is indistinguishable from a normal shard of steel, except for a few traits. First, each shard is completely indestructible, and cannot be tarnished or modified in any way. Second, each shard is magical in nature, and appears as a +1 magical weapon to detect magic and similar effects.

Most importantly, each shard remembers it's time as a full sword, and if two pieces are placed next to each other in their former orientation, they will stick there. This happens even if the two shards aren't physically touching. This is also true of the hilt that the sword was attached to.

If at least 20% of the shards are re-attached to the hilt from which they originated, it can be used as a +2 Starmetal Medium Longsword. With 40% of the shards, it becomes a +3 Starmetal Medium Longsword. At 60%, it becomes +4 Starmetal Medium Longsword, and at 80%, +5. Once all of the shards and the hilt are reunited, it becomes a +6 Starmetal Medium Longsword.

Once the sword has been fully restored, however, it still does not possess it's former abilities, and in fact, after the last piece is attached, the blade will begin to heat up very quickly. To restore it's full abilities, the blade must be quenched with blood. The sword must be used in a killing blow against a living, intelligent creature. If this is not done within 1 hour of the blade being reformed, then the blade will become extremely hot, effectively gaining the Flaming property. In addition, anyone who wields the weapon will need to make a DC 20 will save each round. If they fail, they plunge the sword into their own heart, killing themselves instantly and sating the sword's thirst for blood.




I didn't read the books, but this is approximately what I was planning on doing. I like the additional cost of a life being needed, as I stopped with them being reconstructed.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-04-04, 10:12 PM
Interesting, but seems much too easy, and not enough potential for plot fun and drama. Alternate rules:




Upon destruction, a sword is shattered into 10d20 shards of various shapes and sizes. Each shard is indistinguishable from a normal shard of steel, except for a few traits. First, each shard is completely indestructible, and cannot be tarnished or modified in any way. Second, each shard is magical in nature, and appears as a +1 magical weapon to detect magic and similar effects.

Most importantly, each shard remembers it's time as a full sword, and if two pieces are placed next to each other in their former orientation, they will stick there. This happens even if the two shards aren't physically touching. This is also true of the hilt that the sword was attached to.

If at least 20% of the shards are re-attached to the hilt from which they originated, it can be used as a +2 Starmetal Medium Longsword. With 40% of the shards, it becomes a +3 Starmetal Medium Longsword. At 60%, it becomes +4 Starmetal Medium Longsword, and at 80%, +5. Once all of the shards and the hilt are reunited, it becomes a +6 Starmetal Medium Longsword.

Once the sword has been fully restored, however, it still does not possess it's former abilities, and in fact, after the last piece is attached, the blade will begin to heat up very quickly. To restore it's full abilities, the blade must be quenched with blood. The sword must be used in a killing blow against a living, intelligent creature. If this is not done within 1 hour of the blade being reformed, then the blade will become extremely hot, effectively gaining the Flaming property. In addition, anyone who wields the weapon will need to make a DC 20 will save each round. If they fail, they plunge the sword into their own heart, killing themselves instantly and sating the sword's thirst for blood.



Edit: Also, you should at least require starmetal to be used in the construction, since that's what the swords are made out of.

Very nice.

I made it roughly the cost of raw materials for a masterwork steel longsword. The point is that it's fairly easy to do, but nobody sane would want to do it.

Zweisteine
2013-04-07, 08:08 PM
I'm sure many adventurers/rulers/people/non-people would love to have Doomgiver at their side, especially if they also had enough of Shieldbreaker in their pocket that it was no threat.

Even a good person could do it, by sacrificing someone evil.

I'd recommend a nigh-unachievable craft DC, because, from what I hear, a weakened god could not have forged them again.

Perhaps a a large amount of starmetal, the special location, a human sacrifice, and a DC 100 craft check, and the smithing must be done with no breaks... Even that feels too little to me.

AgentPaper
2013-04-07, 10:21 PM
Yeah, campaigns centered around the swords was one of the main reasons I made the "broken into many pieces" optional rule. With a hundred or so pieces floating around, you have a nice quest for lower level players to cut their teeth on before full swords and all of their powers really come into play.

For example, you could start a campaign with a short plot that ends with them obtaining a sword, and then immediately afterwards, the BBEG comes in with shieldbreaker and smashes it to pieces, leaving them with just the hilt. (BBEG's motivation is to destroy all other swords to leave himself invincible) The players then have to search all over the place for bits and pieces of the sword, slowly building up it's power, fighting others who are also after the pieces, and so on. This could easily go on until level 10 or so, at which point they finally re-build the sword, and start hunting other swords while trying to avoid the BBEG, who now has them in his sights again. All leading up to an epic final confrontation between the players and the BBEG, with each side having a number of swords.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-04-08, 02:49 AM
I'm sure many adventurers/rulers/people/non-people would love to have Doomgiver at their side, especially if they also had enough of Shieldbreaker in their pocket that it was no threat.

Soulcutter can easily trump Doomgiver. You would also be vulnerable to any kind of AOE spell as long as the caster included himself in the effect, and that would extend to explosives. Poison could also work, though the poisoner would have to share the meal with Doomgiver's owner. A particularly brave fool could attempt to start a grapple and throw you and himself off of a cliff (his self-destructive intent would protect him from Doomgiver's reflection). A person using Stonecutter could collapse a bridge under the both of you, or collapse a building similarly. An assassin who catches you sleeping could run a sword or spear through the two of you. Also, by a loose interpretation of its power, I think that an unarmed attacker could wrest Doomgiver from its wielder because he himself carries no weapon that Doomgiver could use to swap target and source (but this isn't nearly as reliable as it would be against Shieldbreaker).

Ultimately, Doomgiver's glaring weakness is that it is only a minor hindrance against an opponent who is willing to die to defeat you. Interestingly, this means that it is most powerful in the hands of a just person (few people would want to kill a good person out of self sacrifice).

Zweisteine
2013-04-08, 08:45 PM
Here's my grand strategy to keep coinspinner:
1. Play a Kalashtar, and get the implanted shard that acts as an eye in you had, and one on your waist, staring at the heated swird's hilt.
2. Then get the wakeful mind construct graft so you never have to sleep.
3. Enjoy always being able to see the sword.
4. ????
5. Profit (preferably by opening a casino).

Tip: never let te PCs have both shieldbreaker and doomgiver, or even woundhealer. (at least not pre-epic)

I really need to get these books.

Douglas
2013-04-08, 09:25 PM
Weeeeeell... Coinspinner has actually been known to teleport away when its owner was looking. All known instances of this happened when Shieldbreaker was about to smash it (people with a Sword seem to have a quite disproportionate chance of encountering other people with other Swords), but it could conceivably use such power to foil a plan like yours. Alternatively, when the time to move on comes, it exerts its influence to contrive a situation where you reflexively look away for at least a second despite any plan not to.

Hmm, how to beat someone who is dual-wielding Shieldbreaker and Doomgiver. It's a tough one, I admit, and a stereotypical paranoid PC would have both of them in hand even while sleeping. The best I've come up with so far is attacking unarmed with a Necklace of Natural Attacks (or similar magic item) adding the vicious property to your unarmed strike. Even then you would need one heck of a hit point buffer and healing squad to keep you from dying before you finish the job.

Edit: Or maybe not quite so much. Being "unarmed", you would only have to deal with your reflected attacks and attacks with Doomgiver, not 4 or 5 automatic crits per round from Shieldbreaker.

Zweisteine
2013-04-09, 03:29 PM
Well, my plan was never to keep coinspinner from escaping shieldbreaker. That would actually be bad for me.

To defeat someone with Shieldbreaker and Doomgiver both, you'd have to... Use spells that have backlash, probably. Actually, that might be just about it. Design a spell with enormous backlash (say 1000d6), that deal less damage (500d6). It wouldn't have to e that extreme, of course, but it would have to directly target someone, and not be deflectable by a sword.
Alternatively, you could outsmart yourself. If you found a way to act hostilely against the two swords' wielder without knowing it was a hostile act... Programmed amnesia might work, of you program yourself to think stabbing the wielder is good for him (and rig it to deactivate afterwards). That might not work, though, for the same reasons manipulating someone wouldn't. The same goes for manipulating someone, then wiping your mind to forget that you did it.


Wearing a necklace of natural attacks probably makes you count as armed.
Also, sleeping with Shieldbreaker is probably not feasible, because of how it forces its wielder to fight.

Douglas
2013-04-09, 04:19 PM
To defeat someone with Shieldbreaker and Doomgiver both, you'd have to... Use spells that have backlash, probably. Actually, that might be just about it. Design a spell with enormous backlash (say 1000d6), that deal less damage (500d6). It wouldn't have to e that extreme, of course, but it would have to directly target someone, and not be deflectable by a sword.
That might get past Doomgiver's defense, but not Shieldbreaker. Shieldbreaker just straight up blocks attacks, and harmful spells count as attacks.


Alternatively, you could outsmart yourself. If you found a way to act hostilely against the two swords' wielder without knowing it was a hostile act... Programmed amnesia might work, of you program yourself to think stabbing the wielder is good for him (and rig it to deactivate afterwards). That might not work, though, for the same reasons manipulating someone wouldn't. The same goes for manipulating someone, then wiping your mind to forget that you did it.
Doomgiver would detect that as a hostile act produced by manipulation, and reflect it upon the manipulator - who is also you, even if you don't know it.


Wearing a necklace of natural attacks probably makes you count as armed.
A necklace of natural attacks adds properties to your unarmed strike, but it does not stop you from provoking, give you a threatened area, or let you deal lethal damage without penalty. In all the ways that count, you are still considered unarmed. Therefore Shieldbreaker still doesn't block it.


Also, sleeping with Shieldbreaker is probably not feasible, because of how it forces its wielder to fight.
It only does that when active threats are present.

Jodah
2013-04-09, 10:22 PM
Question: what if the individual is unaware that the attack will harm the person. Say a necropolitan or someone with tombtainted soul has Doomgiver and you (thinking they are normal) stab them with woundhealer - or just cast heal on them.

Douglas
2013-04-09, 11:43 PM
With no intent to harm, Doomgiver would let it through unhindered.

AgentPaper
2013-04-10, 12:04 AM
Would Doomgiver protect from, say, a collapsing tunnel? Not one rigged to collapse, just a natural tunnel that happened to collapse when he was in it out of sheer coincidence.

What about traps? Say you set up a trap in a hallway set to shoot arrows at the next person to walk down them, without knowing (at least for sure) that the next person would be the wielder of Doomgiver?

Douglas
2013-04-10, 12:11 AM
A natural collapse, no. Doomgiver is useless against natural disasters, it only protects from enemy action.

A trap, yes. The trap's attack would be reflected at whoever set up the trap. The principle here is similar to the "fireball some anonymous peasants" example in the Sword description.

If the trap were a rigged tunnel collapse, I'd have the tunnel completely fail to collapse, and then figure out what the closest analogue to a collapsing tunnel would be for wherever the reflection target is and have that happen. If he's in an open field under a clear sky, um, a sinkhole opens under him but momentarily leaves a layer of unsupported earth around where he fell through which then falls on him? Someone taking precautions against a long distance indirect reflection like this could result in quite bizarre events.

Now for really stretching the concept: Our hero is out of his base and, for important strategic reasons, has to sneak in secretly. The route he takes is full of traps, all set up with the intent of preventing his enemies from sneaking in - as far as the guy who set them up knew, the hero and his friends could always come in the front door. Because he is explicitly not the intended target, Doomgiver does not protect him from these traps.

Fjolnir
2013-04-10, 01:50 PM
it cuts LIVING dragons just fine, once it is dead it become stuck it happens in the second book as well when they kill the gatekeeper dragon

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-04-10, 07:18 PM
Taking out someone with both Doomgiver and Shieldbreaker is easy if you're willing to die. Finding some like-minded friends couldn't hurt. Have everyone poison themselves with a poison needle (something that will kill you in a day should be appropriate), then rush the Sword-wielder unarmed (and preferably well-armored). Pin him to the ground, wrest Shieldbreaker from his grasp, and then poison him with the same needle. Doomgiver would be naught but a sharp blade under such circumstances.

If you want the Swords to be retrieved afterward, you'll need to grab a friend and just tell him to follow you and stay a ways back. Tell him as little as possible about the plan. As soon as the Sword wielder succumbs to the poison your friend can run in and grab Doomgiver.


it cuts LIVING dragons just fine, once it is dead it become stuck it happens in the second book as well when they kill the gatekeeper dragon

See the previous argument about this. Dragonslayer is not the only Sword that can get stuck in a dragon.

AgentPaper
2013-04-10, 07:31 PM
Taking out someone with both Doomgiver and Shieldbreaker is easy if you're willing to die. Finding some like-minded friends couldn't hurt. Have everyone poison themselves with a poison needle (something that will kill you in a day should be appropriate), then rush the Sword-wielder unarmed (and preferably well-armored). Pin him to the ground, wrest Shieldbreaker from his grasp, and then poison him with the same needle. Doomgiver would be naught but a sharp blade under such circumstances.

That...wouldn't work at all. You'd rush him un-armed and end up grappling yourself, because doomgiver doesn't care that you're unarmed. It also doesn't care that you poisoned yourself earlier, trying to poison it's wielder will only cause you to prick yourself again.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-04-10, 07:34 PM
That...wouldn't work at all. You'd rush him un-armed and end up grappling yourself, because doomgiver doesn't care that you're unarmed. It also doesn't care that you poisoned yourself earlier, trying to poison it's wielder will only cause you to prick yourself again.

Doomgiver's ability was never examined at length in the books, so this is all just speculation. If we assume that it allows for very broad interpretations of "eye for an eye" (which we can from what happened to Aphrodite), then Doomgiver cannot defend against an attacker who will share the same fate as its wielder. Poisoning yourself before trying to poison Doomgiver's wielder should be acceptable. Barring that, you could always just invite him to dinner and poison the both of you.

Also, you could probably use a vicious weapon to penetrate Doomgiver's defenses at a rate of 1d6 damage per attack. Not too helpful, but better than nothing.

Zweisteine
2013-04-12, 10:59 PM
So... what if you used magic to simultaneously (perfectly simultaneously) launch stuff (magic, blades, whatever) continuously at Shieldbreaker's wielded? Could it block them all? If so, would it do so be moving at ridiculous speed, and ripping the wielder's arm out of its socket? Paul's the blade sunset itself by ripping itself apart too block the incoming projectiles?

How would Shieldbreaker protect against unseeable, intangible magic, like a Dominate spell?

On another note, I have begun reading the books, starting with Woundhealer's Story (the first three are unavailable to me at this time). I almost finished the book in the last 5 hours.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-04-13, 04:11 AM
Could it block them all? If so, would it do so be moving at ridiculous speed, and ripping the wielder's arm out of its socket?
Yes, pretty much. Overwhelming the body is one feasible strategy for injuring the wielder (but going at him unarmed is more reliable and will involve less shrapnel).


How would Shieldbreaker protect against unseeable, intangible magic, like a Dominate spell?
The spell is resisted as long as Shieldbreaker is in hand.

Douglas
2013-04-14, 12:00 AM
Doomgiver's ability was never examined at length in the books, so this is all just speculation. If we assume that it allows for very broad interpretations of "eye for an eye" (which we can from what happened to Aphrodite), then Doomgiver cannot defend against an attacker who will share the same fate as its wielder. Poisoning yourself before trying to poison Doomgiver's wielder should be acceptable. Barring that, you could always just invite him to dinner and poison the both of you.
I would say that the self-harming aspect of the attack must be part of the actual attack itself, not a separate but related act. Poisoning yourself earlier would not work. A poison needle somehow designed to prick both of you at once might.


Also, you could probably use a vicious weapon to penetrate Doomgiver's defenses at a rate of 1d6 damage per attack. Not too helpful, but better than nothing.
Vicious definitely works, though Doomgiver's wielder has the option of choosing to not reflect it, so you need to make the offense part of the attack powerful enough relative to his non-Doomgiver defenses to make taking the guaranteed 1d6 preferable.


So... what if you used magic to simultaneously (perfectly simultaneously) launch stuff (magic, blades, whatever) continuously at Shieldbreaker's wielded? Could it block them all? If so, would it do so be moving at ridiculous speed, and ripping the wielder's arm out of its socket? Paul's the blade sunset itself by ripping itself apart too block the incoming projectiles?
Yes it could block them all, and you're trying to bring physics into D&D rules. If it needs to, Shieldbreaker will turn into an invisible blur that goes through every single part of a spherical shell around its wielder 500 times per second. This will not result in any harm to its wielder.


How would Shieldbreaker protect against unseeable, intangible magic, like a Dominate spell?
It makes a quiet thudding sound once, like a hammer lightly tapping wood, and the spell fails.


On another note, I have begun reading the books, starting with Woundhealer's Story (the first three are unavailable to me at this time). I almost finished the book in the last 5 hours.
I take it you like it. Enjoy.

I would strongly recommend hunting down the initial trilogy, though. It establishes some important background for many of the characters in the Lost Swords part of the series, and reading them in order greatly reduces spoilers. Oh, and Wayfinder's time in the limelight is superb and happens in those initial three books. Check for the omnibus edition, The Complete Book of Swords, as well as the separate First/Second/Third Book of Swords titles.

AgentPaper
2013-04-14, 12:33 AM
On another note, this really makes me want to start a campaign based around either these swords, or some other similar set of magical artifacts. (the former since the 12 swords are sweet, the latter since it would allow more fun experimentation and surprises)

I don't really have the time to DM it, unfortunately, but if someone wants to DM such a game, I'd be all for it.

Varen_Tai
2013-07-05, 12:51 PM
Re: Woundhealer (spoilers below):

I recall a scene where some evil guy who had taken Woundhealer jumped off a cliff and impaled himself with it on his way down so as to avoid death. There was a brief text about how he could feel the sword trying to get him to become more compassionate and he fought it off or something to that effect. I could not tell you which book it was in (not the original 3, for sure - this was after Mark had kids), but it jumped out at me at the time as clear as day.

In other words, Woundhealer is a Good-aligned sword, and part of its power is that it nudges those it heals towards a Good alignment. Baron whats-his-name fought it off, but I seem to remember how he deliberately kept his use of the Sword to a minimum so as to avoid that particular effect.

Perhaps a save required with each use and after 10 fails (not consecutive), the person's alignment moves one step towards Good?

Fact check, anyone who has read this more recently than me?

EDIT:

Whose flesh the Sword of Mercy hurts has drawn no breath,
Whose soul it heals has wandered in the night,
Has paid the summing of all debts in death
Has turned to see returning light.

Evidence there? The Sword's verse itself talks about healing souls, not just the body. Perhaps in the vernacular if Saberhagen's world, healing a soul means turning it to Good over time, healing it of the emotional/spiritual wounds that made it Evil, or Less-Than-Good?

Douglas
2013-07-05, 01:36 PM
Here's the exact quote you're referring to, from Woundhealer's Story:

Amintor felt the galvanic pang of the silvery blade entering his very heart. Force poured from that enchanted steel, a power that, far from killing him, would have altered him into someone else if he had let it do so. Fiercely he resisted that godlike force, clinging to himself, to being what he was, what he chose to be.

It doesn't actually mention what kind of other person it would have changed him into, though Good-aligned is a pretty good guess. I don't recall this effect ever being referenced again, and Baron Amintor lost the Sword a few pages later traded in exchange for Shieldbreaker Of course, almost everyone else who used it was already Good, so that's more a lack of evidence than evidence against the effect.

Regarding soul-healing, I took that to correspond to negative levels (or permanent level loss), and maybe mental ability damage/drain, which is why I put Greater Restoration in Woundhealer's array of effects.

Varen_Tai
2013-07-05, 02:31 PM
Here's the exact quote you're referring to, from Woundhealer's Story:


It doesn't actually mention what kind of other person it would have changed him into, though Good-aligned is a pretty good guess. I don't recall this effect ever being referenced again, and Baron Amintor lost the Sword a few pages later traded in exchange for Shieldbreaker Of course, almost everyone else who used it was already Good, so that's more a lack of evidence than evidence against the effect.

Regarding soul-healing, I took that to correspond to negative levels (or permanent level loss), and maybe mental ability damage/drain, which is why I put Greater Restoration in Woundhealer's array of effects.

Yup, that was the quote! And I think you're right - Amintor was the only baddie who had WH for any length of time, so we didn't get to see the alignment changing nature of WH any other time in the series.

Yeah, the Greater Restoration makes sense in the D&D world, but in Saberhagen's world, I think perhaps SoulCutter might have been the only real soul killing experience available. Well, maybe the Mindsword's long term effects might also qualify, but they didn't have life draining undead around.

Anyhoo, reading up on your Sword stats made me very nostalgic - I tried to do the same when I was in high school, and your attempt is oh-so-much better than mine. Well done!

Zweisteine
2013-07-05, 04:10 PM
Now that I've finally hunted down and begun to read the Books of Swords, I can finally appreciate the true awesomeness of these blades.

I think I'm going to have my friends play level 10 characters, and give them some swords, and see what happens (of course, other people will have the other swords, and will want more...).

Angelalex242
2013-11-07, 01:48 AM
I just noticed this! I'd always wanted to be part of a campaign with these weapons.

Though I've always considered...put these weapons in a standard 3.5 Greyhawk world, and...

Suppose my Paladin of Heironeus gets access to Farslayer. And then, the first thing he does is throw it at Hextor. (Sure, Hextor's people will probably throw it back at him, but in the great scheme of things, this is like sacrificing a pawn to get checkmate on the cosmic chessboard.) Then say my noble cleric friend picks it up and throws it at Nerull next. Another evil god down, another party member dead, and the next guy in line throws it at Erythnul...

All the evil gods get mowed down like so many blades of grass, and evil divine spellcasters are now SOL...

Wonder what that'd do to a campaign world?

Douglas
2013-11-07, 02:30 AM
Well, I think Hextor's personal servants would be more likely to throw it at Heironeous than return it to you, even point first. Gods on both sides would die until either the target had a Sword that could stop it or the being who recovers Farslayer decides stopping the mutual slaughter is more important than hitting the next god in line.

I would expect a few gods to die, distributed evenly among opposing factions, and then Farslayer would get buried in the most impenetrable fortress the last target faction has available, locked up as a weapon of last resort.

Whoever threw it first and started the slaughter would instantly become the focus of a worldwide controversy over whether he's a great hero for killing evil gods or a terrible villain for setting off the deaths of good gods. Half the world's bounty hunters would be after him, and half of them wouldn't be doing it for a reward. The half of the world's factions not posting bounties for him would be offering him shelter and asylum.

Really, this is just one example of the ways in which suddenly introducing these Swords into a setting can and most likely will cause that setting to promptly descend into chaos.

I'm considering starting up a continuation of this project, with examples and discussion of the effects these Swords would likely have on campaign settings, and ways of introducing them.

AgentPaper
2013-11-07, 02:40 AM
Well, I think Hextor's personal servants would be more likely to throw it at Heironeous than return it to you, even point first. Gods on both sides would die until either the target had a Sword that could stop it or the being who recovers Farslayer decides stopping the mutual slaughter is more important than hitting the next god in line.

I would expect a few gods to die, distributed evenly among opposing factions, and then Farslayer would get buried in the most impenetrable fortress the last target faction has available, locked up as a weapon of last resort.

Whoever threw it first and started the slaughter would instantly become the focus of a worldwide controversy over whether he's a great hero for killing evil gods or a terrible villain for setting off the deaths of good gods. Half the world's bounty hunters would be after him, and half of them wouldn't be doing it for a reward. The half of the world's factions not posting bounties for him would be offering him shelter and asylum.

Really, this is just one example of the ways in which suddenly introducing these Swords into a setting can and most likely will cause that setting to promptly descend into chaos.

I'm considering starting up a continuation of this project, with examples and discussion of the effects these Swords would likely have on campaign settings, and ways of introducing them.

And this is why I love these swords. They're exactly what magical items should be: Simple and very straightforwards in what they do, but also powerful, dangerous, and potentially world-changing. They add complexity to the world not by being complex, but through the emergent behavior they create and cause from their simple rules interacting with an already complex world.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2013-11-07, 01:51 PM
I'm considering starting up a continuation of this project, with examples and discussion of the effects these Swords would likely have on campaign settings, and ways of introducing them.

You would have to make sure you distribute the swords so as to effect maximum chaos. That's what the gods did in the books.

Angelalex242
2013-11-07, 03:07 PM
The improved version of the 'gank all the evil gods plan.'

Required swords:Farslayer, Coinspinner, Woundhealer.

Through Farslayer at Hextor. Luckily, his grieving servants throw it right back at him (Thanks, Coinspinner) Luckily, Woundhealer is right there to save you from Farslayer. Then you toss at Nerull, Erythnul, Tiamat, Lloth, Kutumark, Gruumsh and every other evil god your knowledge religion check can think of...(Luckily, you get it right back every time, and luckily, woundhealer's on hand to save you...)

Hell, you can even throw it at the Lady of Pain for added giggles.

TuggyNE
2013-11-07, 05:16 PM
The improved version of the 'gank all the evil gods plan.'

Required swords:Farslayer, Coinspinner, Woundhealer.

Through Farslayer at Hextor. Luckily, his grieving servants throw it right back at him (Thanks, Coinspinner) Luckily, Woundhealer is right there to save you from Farslayer. Then you toss at Nerull, Erythnul, Tiamat, Lloth, Kutumark, Gruumsh and every other evil god your knowledge religion check can think of...(Luckily, you get it right back every time, and luckily, woundhealer's on hand to save you...)

Hmm. Coinspinner normally specifically acts to keep Farslayer from targeting you, so would it really switch around just because you have Woundhealer stuck in to prevent death?

AgentPaper
2013-11-07, 06:04 PM
Hmm. Coinspinner normally specifically acts to keep Farslayer from targeting you, so would it really switch around just because you have Woundhealer stuck in to prevent death?

That depends. It's not really clear from the description whether Coinspinner actually works to further your interests, or if it only acts to make sure you survive. If the former, then it would make the flunky throw it back at you, like you want, but if it's the latter, then it wouldn't do anything, since it doesn't care whether they throw it at you or not.

In fact, if it's the latter, then having woundhealer stuck in you would just make Coinspinner not function at all, except to make sure nobody takes Woundhealer out of you, wouldn't it?

Angelalex242
2013-11-07, 07:18 PM
It's not clear from the rules Douglas wrote. It IS clear from the books themselves..."It would be really lucky for me if Lightning would strike that guy over there." **ZAP!**

As such, Coinspinner can be counted on to take other swords into account (except perhaps Shieldbreaker) when you're running your master plan. As such, whatever your interest may be, "Who holds Coinspinner knows good odds, whichever move he make..." So if your plan is 'kill all the evil gods with Farslayer', Coinspinner will arrange fate in your favor such that the plan works, and only Shieldbreaker really stops your plan. (If an Evil God had Doomgiver, that god wouldn't die, but you'd still have Farslayer back to target the next evil god in line.)

It also answers questions like Wayfinder does. When Coinspinner and Sightblinder are used together, "Who would get best use of Sightblinder?" Coinspinner indicates one guy. "Who would get best use of this?" Addressing Coinspinner itself, and it pointed at its current owner.

NuSair
2014-06-18, 01:05 AM
Hopefully this isn't too much thread necromancy....

The 3.5 group I've been running for over two years is about to come across one of the swords so I decided to see what other people have done and I found this amazing thread. But, I wanted to point out a few things...

1- Woundhealer did not destroy Shieldbreaker. Shieldbreaker destroyed itself. Admittedly, it's been a while since I've read the books, but when the demon's hand came off Shieldbreaker, it became Mark's sword (being in his shoulder/chest). At that moment, Shieldbreaker broke itself.

2- I disagree with the premise that Wayfinder (or Coinspinner for that matter) couldn't find a way to destroy Shieldbreaker if asked.....and it wasn't held. All of the swords had to be in hand for their powers to work (or in woundhealer's case, inside the body). Even in that game of dice, the guy had his hand on Shieldbreaker's hilt when playing dice against Coinspinner's owner.

That's it for now, I've been visiting these forums for a while, it was about time I registered.

Thanks again for an awesome write up of the swords.

Douglas
2014-06-18, 01:44 AM
Hopefully this isn't too much thread necromancy....

The 3.5 group I've been running for over two years is about to come across one of the swords so I decided to see what other people have done and I found this amazing thread. But, I wanted to point out a few things...
Technically this is sufficient necro to be against the rules, but since I'm still active and replying I think the reason for automatic exemption applies even though I'm not the one doing the necro.

Thanks for the compliment, and I'd be curious to hear details about how your Sword campaign goes.


1- Woundhealer did not destroy Shieldbreaker. Shieldbreaker destroyed itself. Admittedly, it's been a while since I've read the books, but when the demon's hand came off Shieldbreaker, it became Mark's sword (being in his shoulder/chest). At that moment, Shieldbreaker broke itself.
I just checked the book, and a) it never mentions the demon letting go of Shieldbreaker at any point in that attack, and b) that explanation is an in character theory rather than authorial statement. Regardless of the precise metaphysical reasons, I think it's clear that Woundhealer's presence was an essential part of why Shieldbreaker broke.


2- I disagree with the premise that Wayfinder (or Coinspinner for that matter) couldn't find a way to destroy Shieldbreaker if asked.....and it wasn't held. All of the swords had to be in hand for their powers to work (or in woundhealer's case, inside the body). Even in that game of dice, the guy had his hand on Shieldbreaker's hilt when playing dice against Coinspinner's owner.
I don't see a specification anywhere in my write up that Wayfinder and Coinspinner can't work against Shieldbreaker. What I do see is a specification that they can't work against Shieldbreaker's wielder (which would extend to that wielder's possessions, including Shieldbreaker). If Shieldbreaker has no current wielder, which you could interpret to be satisfied when Shieldbreaker is anything short of actually in hand, then that restriction does not apply.

Perhaps I should revise the wording of "currently unowned" that I use in a few spots, though.

On second thought, I recall a scene where Shieldbreaker protects Wood from a spell while Shieldbreaker is stuck in the floor in front of Wood. I don't remember if Wood was touching it at the time, and I'm not sure even which book it's in so it might take some time to find and check.


That's it for now, I've been visiting these forums for a while, it was about time I registered.

Thanks again for an awesome write up of the swords.
Will you be using this write up in your game? If so, I would be especially interested in hearing about it.

NuSair
2014-06-18, 02:00 AM
Technically this is sufficient necro to be against the rules, but since I'm still active and replying I think the reason for automatic exemption applies even though I'm not the one doing the necro.

Thank you, I appreciate it!


Thanks for the compliment, and I'd be curious to hear details about how your Sword campaign goes.

You're welcome. I don't mind posting how the swords effect the game going forward. It would take up a significant amount of time to post about the past 2 years of play. ;)

The characters have reached level 19-22 (level differences because of missing a night of play due to real life or the Cleric casting ANOTHER miracle, lol).



I just checked the book, and a) it never mentions the demon letting go of Shieldbreaker at any point in that attack, and b) that explanation is an in character theory rather than authorial statement. Regardless of the precise metaphysical reasons, I think it's clear that Woundhealer's presence was an essential part of why Shieldbreaker broke.


Really? I guess I need to go back and re-read the books then! (yeah, that's tragic)

I could have sworn it was said either in the battle or when one of the characters later in the book was talking about the fight.

And I agree about Woundhealer's presence was essential, because if nothing else, it kept Mark alive.



I don't see a specification anywhere in my write up that Wayfinder and Coinspinner can't work against Shieldbreaker. What I do see is a specification that they can't work against Shieldbreaker's wielder (which would extend to that wielder's possessions, including Shieldbreaker). If Shieldbreaker has no current wielder, which you could interpret to be satisfied when Shieldbreaker is anything short of actually in hand, then that restriction does not apply.

Perhaps I should revise the wording of "currently unowned" that I use in a few spots, though.


Could be something I read in another write up, I apologize. That just makes me have to come up with a way to destroy it, lol.



Will you be using this write up in your game? If so, I would be especially interested in hearing about it.

Probably, at least as a base to get started from.

Right now, the characters have gone back 5,000 years in the past to save someone dear to them now. One of the people they encounter is someone they know from the future, who actually has Townsaver. I felt that tossing in the Swords before this point was just overpowering. Either against them or by letting them have one.

NuSair
2014-08-10, 12:30 AM
Greetings again.

It's been a bit, so I thought I would provide an update.

The party is currently in possession of Sightblinder. It is currently in the hands of their female Halfling rogue (who also carries a hammer of thunderbolts....but, that is another story).

The party needed access to an area where there were going to be many ancient (and older) dragons of all types (well, chromatic and metallic). One of the Dragon Lords (the Bronze one), who was privy to the parties plan, let them know of a sword that the Lord of the Red Dragons had in his vault (which benefited him as well, removing it from the Red Dragon Lord's possession). After two sessions of planning and setting up the heist, the party went after the sword. The groups monk had challenged the RDL to a game of Go. The RDL was a Go Master, plus his arrogance and pride knew no bounds, so he accepted.

It was well done and set up by the group, plus thanks to a natural 20 at a really opportune moment. They were able to make off with the sword and replace it with a replica, that wasn't noticed until they were long gone.

Recently, the halfling rogue used it to get into the Royal Vaults of a neighboring kingdom. The sword has not been used in combat and it's inclusion so far has been worth it's weight in gold for entertainment value.

Angelalex242
2014-08-10, 01:20 PM
Sightblinder is fun.

I wonder what your PCs would do if given the Sword of Glory...

Only one of them can wield it, and whoever is NOT wielding it is slave to the one who is.

NuSair
2014-08-10, 05:35 PM
Sightblinder is fun.

I wonder what your PCs would do if given the Sword of Glory...

Only one of them can wield it, and whoever is NOT wielding it is slave to the one who is.

I doubt that would happen. It might be fun to see what happens, but I don't want the campaign to come about the swords. Right now, they know of 3 swords. Sightblinder, which they have. Townsaver, which is in the hands of an ancient Silver Dragon going around in the form of an elf on a quest of repentance and Soulcutter. And while they know of Soulcutter and where it is, it is currently unreachable.

Maybe in my next DnD 3.5 campaign, I'll do a swords based one.

Angelalex242
2014-08-10, 07:19 PM
Soulcutter is nearly impossible to use anyway.

Your best chance is to let the darn thing fall out of its sheath (while you're flying at a GREAT height, so you're only exposed for a round or two...) onto a castle of a king you don't like. At that point, the castle and everyone in radius is screwed. And will starve to death.

(The Tyrant's Blade no blood hath spilled
But doth the spirit carve
Soulcutter hath nobody killed
but many left to starve...)

NuSair
2014-08-11, 12:31 AM
Soulcutter is nearly impossible to use anyway.

Your best chance is to let the darn thing fall out of its sheath (while you're flying at a GREAT height, so you're only exposed for a round or two...) onto a castle of a king you don't like. At that point, the castle and everyone in radius is screwed. And will starve to death.

(The Tyrant's Blade no blood hath spilled
But doth the spirit carve
Soulcutter hath nobody killed
but many left to starve...)

OHHHHHH, I LOVE that idea!!!! Especially since the one holding Soulcutter is a Red Dragon.

Damn, that is just too delicious.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2014-08-11, 02:52 PM
OHHHHHH, I LOVE that idea!!!! Especially since the one holding Soulcutter is a Red Dragon.

Damn, that is just too delicious.

And he can send some undead minions in to retrieve it for him a week later.

Angelalex242
2014-08-11, 08:45 PM
Soulcutter induces despair and apathy in everyone nearby, causing all activity to cease and everyone to simply lie in place, immobile and uncaring.

When Soulcutter is drawn, all creatures within a 1000' radius (regardless of line of sight and line of effect) gain apathy levels at a rate of one per round. Apathy levels have the same effect as negative levels with the following exceptions:

Apathy levels ignore all resistances and immunities to negative levels that any victim might have.
Apathy levels require a will save instead of a fortitude save to remove normally (after 24 hours). The save DC is 20.
If a creature has a number of apathy levels, or combined apathy and negative levels, equal to its hit dice, it drops anything it is holding, collapses prone to the ground, and remains there, helpless and taking no actions instead of dying. A creature can have more apathy levels than hit dice, but the excess do not impose any penalties and only count for how many morale effects would be required to counteract them.
Immunity to mind-affecting effects grants some resistance to apathy levels, allowing a will save DC 30 to avoid each one when it would initially be gained. There is normally no save until 24 hours later. Attempting this save is optional, and costs a standard action from the victim's next turn.
Apathy levels can be mitigated by morale effects. Each spell or effect that grants a morale bonus to a victim of Soulcutter temporarily negates one apathy level instead of granting its usual bonuses. Any penalties, non-morale bonuses, or other effects remain, and when the morale effect ends the apathy level returns.

=============================
Actually, he can't. Even mindless undead like skeletons and zombies are subject to the Sword of Despair's power, and will not be able to get in and retrieve the sword. Even sending a golem in won't work. The Sword of Despair is that OP.

As far as I can tell, the Red Dragon would be best off using a ring of mind blank, and then hoping his HD hold out long enough for him to sheathe the sword.

AgentPaper
2014-08-11, 09:46 PM
Retrieving the sword shouldn't be too hard. Just teleport in next to it, pick it up and sheath it. A round never passes, so you don't even take a single apathy level. Though if your DM is a stick in the mud and says you take one anyways, oh well, you've lost 1 level for the next day or so.

You could also use teleport as another means of getting away, draw the sword, drop it, teleport out. This would also let you make sure it's either hidden or stuck enough that nobody else can go and sheathe it before they take too many apathy levels.

Douglas
2014-08-16, 05:40 PM
Greetings again.

It's been a bit, so I thought I would provide an update.

The party is currently in possession of Sightblinder. It is currently in the hands of their female Halfling rogue (who also carries a hammer of thunderbolts....but, that is another story).

The party needed access to an area where there were going to be many ancient (and older) dragons of all types (well, chromatic and metallic). One of the Dragon Lords (the Bronze one), who was privy to the parties plan, let them know of a sword that the Lord of the Red Dragons had in his vault (which benefited him as well, removing it from the Red Dragon Lord's possession). After two sessions of planning and setting up the heist, the party went after the sword. The groups monk had challenged the RDL to a game of Go. The RDL was a Go Master, plus his arrogance and pride knew no bounds, so he accepted.

It was well done and set up by the group, plus thanks to a natural 20 at a really opportune moment. They were able to make off with the sword and replace it with a replica, that wasn't noticed until they were long gone.

Recently, the halfling rogue used it to get into the Royal Vaults of a neighboring kingdom. The sword has not been used in combat and it's inclusion so far has been worth it's weight in gold for entertainment value.
I assume the Go challenge was just a distraction, and the monk winning was neither important to the plan nor expected? A red dragon of sufficient age to be considered a dragon lord should be damn near impossible to beat at a skill he's known for being a master of.

Good job on the group for the heist, sounds like they did a lot more planning than seems common in my experience and followed through.

Entertainment value? Has the party been using it a lot for pranks, have you been creative with disruptive disguises when not given proper guidance, or what? Or have they just taken to building plans around it frequently that work in hilarious and otherwise impossible ways?

The no combat use thing is not too surprising. Sightblinder has significant combat utility, but its real power is in the non-combat shenanigans it enables.


Soulcutter is nearly impossible to use anyway.

Your best chance is to let the darn thing fall out of its sheath (while you're flying at a GREAT height, so you're only exposed for a round or two...) onto a castle of a king you don't like. At that point, the castle and everyone in radius is screwed. And will starve to death.

(The Tyrant's Blade no blood hath spilled
But doth the spirit carve
Soulcutter hath nobody killed
but many left to starve...)
The problem with this is that a competent guard arrangement should see it falling, recognize the effect, and (if high enough level to be worth spending a Sword on in the first place) be able to find and sheathe it before total collapse. Wielding it actively makes it a lot harder for your targets to stop the effect.

Neither approach stops them from simply fleeing the area, though, provided sufficient speed and/or teleportation magic.

Hmm, teleport into a well-hidden spot, stick Soulcutter somewhere, teleport out, wait 5 minutes, teleport back in and sheathe it and bring in reinforcements to hold the location before anyone on the other side realizes the aura's gone? Of course, this requires a target location that hasn't established protections against teleportation, and such protections should be common in strongholds of high level forces.