Alchemist - Vivisectionist (build discussion)

[Cambrian]

I'm looking at building a Vivisectionist archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/vivisectionist) Alchemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist) and figured it be best to pick the playgrounds mind.

The Basic idea would be to use discoveries to add 2 extra arms for Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/multiweapon-fighting-combat) with 4 Kukri's (to maximize crit damage). I'd be looking to use Weapon Finesse with high Dex rather than Str; is the extra dodge/initiative worth a slight drop in damage and a feat?

Stats would be prioritized something like Dex > Con > Int > whatever. Not sure how important Int should be in this build; it does seem like extracts are not the focus but instead a nice utility/performance bonus rather than necessary. Do melee alchemists require a high int? or 16 (with items) enough since I'm not relying on bomb DC's.

Would a single level dip into Rogue (Knife Master) archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/knife-master) be worth it to increase the sneak attack damage to d8's? (It would also open up more class skills and with a good int and the alchemists 4 skill points you could cover some ground as a skill monkey). Would a different class dip be better?

What feats/Discoveries would be best? I'm thinking of being human for the extra feat/skill point and putting the +2 into Dex.

Lastly is it better to keep poison use or add in the Chirurgeon archetype for some added healing utility; I'm thinking Poison is better with that many attacks and the class benefits.

[Crasical]

You want multiweapon fighting, not multiattack.

EDIT: To be honest, it almost feels more like the multi-armed sneak-attack capability is more the focus here than the extracts, to the degree that I wonder if it's not better just to take two levels of Alchemist and the extra discovery feat to grab another arm and then have most of your levels in rogue... Sure, an vivisectionist alchemist is probably more powerful than a straight rogue, but you don't seem especially interested in any of the other class features.

[Cambrian]

Thanks. Corrected in the original post.

Edit: Well I'd want at least 4 levels of Alchemist to get 2 discoveries for 2 arms. But beyond that it seems the rogue offers little other than skill points since the discoveries are similar to the rogue talents in usefulness and the extracts, better mutagens, and a better Fort save would also help. Getting haste and invisibility really helps this build surprise. Perhaps a 2 level dip into rogue for evasion, a free feat (talent), and a better BAB is worthwhile too.

[Crasical]

Thanks. Corrected in the original post.

Edit: Well I'd want at least 4 levels of Alchemist to get 2 discoveries for 2 arms. But beyond that it seems the rogue offers little other than skill points since the discoveries are similar to the rogue talents in usefulness and the extracts, better mutagens, and a better Fort save would also help. Getting haste and invisibility really helps this build surprise. Perhaps a 2 level dip into rogue for evasion and a better BAB is worthwhile too.

Technically you could go with as little as 2, taking Vestigial arm at 2nd level, taking your third level and rogue and putting your third level feat into Extra Discovery for another arm. Four arms at level 3.

I do kind of feel that the vivisectionist is, in many ways, a better rogue, but you gave off the impression of not being that interested in the class features of an Alchemist and was offering a simplified option. You are right, mutagens, haste, and invisibility as extracts makes it hard for a vanilla rogue to keep up.

[Cambrian]

...you gave off the impression of not being that interested in the class features of an Alchemist and was offering a simplified option. You are right, mutagens, haste, and invisibility as extracts makes it hard for a vanilla rogue to keep up.
I could see where you would get that impression. I'm definitely interested in the Alchemist other features; more utility and little loss of combat capability is always a good trade.

Edit: Just reread the rule on critical damage and it doesn't effect precision (i.e. sneak attack) damage so the kukri's are a bad choice (no Str damage mod means an extra 1d4).

[White_Drake]

I will now refer you to Ogre's superb guide to alchemists (http://pathfinder.ogrehut.com/2010/07/alchemist-build-guide/), and even give you a link to the specific page you want, Mr. Hyde (http://pathfinder.ogrehut.com/2010/07/alchemists-guide-mr-hyde/).

[MasterFu]

I've been researching this a bit on my own and it seems that the RAI are that the vestigial arms can only be used for non-attack actions.

In the campaign I'm going to be in, I don't think it will be a problem because they're homebrewing some of the superpowers from Mutants and Masterminds in there also. It all depends on what your DM will allow, I suppose.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mer7?Alchemist-Vestigial-Arm-discovery-question#40

[White_Drake]

You are mistake Masterfu, it allows you to make additional attacks with two-weapon fighting, although they do not grant additional attacks in and of themselves.

[The Glyphstone]

Not that Pathfinder RAI is anything predictable, trustworthy, or worth paying any attention to in most cases anyways. Especially when it's posted by SKR, grand champion of the World's Worst Professional Game Designer contest.

[White_Drake]

Granted. Also, I think that feral mutagen could give you claws on the vestigial arms rather than the original. On a related note, could you use feral mutagen to gain a second bite if you already had one? It says nothing about superseding/being replaced by an existing bite.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I would not bother with maximizing crit rate if sneak attack is your primary source of damage.

It's feat heavy, but look to use saps (or some other bludgeoning weapon w/ the Bludgeoner feat) and go for the Sap Adept and Sap Master feats. The latter is the real star, but only works on flatfooted foes, a condition annoyingly hard to place on someone past round 1 (most effects that make foes lose dex to AC don't actually make them flatfooted, it's not the same thing).

The "easy way" is if you have an ally willing to take 2 rogue levels for you. Then he can get the Distracting Attack talent to set up your damage onslaught, and provide flanking for you.

Barring that, you basically need to get Shatter Defenses (which means also getting Dazzling Display and Weapon Focus), unavailable till BAB +6, or level 8+. On top of Sap Adept and Master. And the TWF or MWF feat(s). And possibly Bludgeoner. See why I said this was feat heavy?

Optimally, you would want Thug archetype to extend intimidating or turn into into panicked, or Rake archetype to fuel intimidate checks off your sneak attacks. If you go with Thug (I'd recommend that one), you'll also want the Enforcer feat, so you can chain intimidation checks with a LOOOOOONG duration off your nonlethal attacks.

My advice, at least.