I think mobile games are a bad thing

[Scowling Dragon]

As in games for the mobile phone.

As they are seriously hurting the mobile gaming thing.

As in a metaphor:

Mobile Phone games are like Macdonalds. They are cheap, they are quite mindless, each meal is like the other and its very filling. Its much easier to get as Macdonads is everywhere. It fills you up very efficiently. But nothing else. There is rarely any substance in them.

But a SOLID game on a mobile gaming console is just like a good meal. It tastes better. It doesn't leave that bad aftertaste when you realize what you just ate, its much more tasty, and substantial. But is harder. As it either requires you to make a good meal at home or go to an expensive restaurant.

End of metaphor/

Even the best phone games I have seen are just pale imitations of pro games, mostly relying on grinding gimmicks to sucker you in (Lots of grind and repetition).

The 3DS is doing good in Japan, as it caters to its market perfectly with its features.

Yet its true. I don't want to carry around both a phone and a mobile gaming console. For a while I forgot about my 3DS as the iphone provided the 10 seconds of entertainment I needed on the bus and such. But when I came back to my 3DS it was like a gulp of fresh water. Good quality FUN games. Not just grind, not just time wasting monotony.


The only way I can see mobile games finding a sort of niche is if they become mobile phones, focused on games.

Cause if my 3DS was also a phone I would never carry around an iphone ever again.

[Avaris]

I'd like to take your analogy further.

A McDonald meal is good for a quick fix, especially when on the move. You may not necessarily like it, but it fills you up and you can eat it fairly quickly and mindlessly. Easy.

With a little more effort, you can get a decent meal to eat whilst lounging around at home. A sandwich maybe, or some pizza. Harder to eat on the move, although this is still possible. You'll likely enjoy it a bit more, and will eat it in various different circumstances: most people won't have McDonalds at home, but will happily have other food that could be seen as 'takeaway'.

Then you have the 'proper' meals, where you have to sit at a table. Whether these are better than a good meal you can have lounging on the sofa is a matter of debate, but they are definitely better than McDonalds.

So, we have three types of meal, one for when definitely on the move, one which can be had either on the move or when lounging around at home, and one for which you need t be sat at a table. So it is with games: mobile phones are McDonalds, mobile consoles can be used on the move or casually at home, and console/computer gaming is fixed to one location.

This is the strength of mobile consoles: I can play my DS in bed, on the sofa, wherever I like. Unless I'm looking for mindless distraction I'd prefer to have something more engaging than a phone game, but I'm not always able to use my computer for gaming. It is also a weakness: mobile consoles don't truly fit into travel or home use, but their flexibility outweighs this disadvantage IMO.

[Gaelbert]

And games on home consoles aren't meaningless? As much as people like to pretend otherwise, there's not much depth in modern video games.
Unless, of course, you're talking about fun. But if people have fun playing mobile games (as clearly seems to be the case), who are you to tell them that their version of fun is wrong or somehow inferior to yours?

[Scowling Dragon]

With a little more effort, you can get a decent meal to eat whilst lounging around at home. A sandwich maybe, or some pizza. Harder to eat on the move, although this is still possible. You'll likely enjoy it a bit more, and will eat it in various different circumstances: most people won't have McDonalds at home, but will happily have other food that could be seen as 'takeaway'.

And you can have some GREAT tasting sandwiches and other foods like that. Probably not in the same size as a "proper" meal though.


So, we have three types of meal, one for when definitely on the move, one which can be had either on the move or when lounging around at home, and one for which you need t be sat at a table. So it is with games: mobile phones are McDonalds, mobile consoles can be used on the move or casually at home, and console/computer gaming is fixed to one location.

Problem is that the MacDonalds food is slowly taking over the market of lounging at home. Unless something is done, it will kill lounging food. And I don't want to loose the great tasting lounging food.


there's not much depth in modern video games

AAAAAnd we reach an impasse and I don't think we will come to an agreement.

[Craft (Cheese)]

First of all, mobile games, for the most part, aren't intended to be played like home console or PC titles. You're not supposed to sit there and play them 6 hours straight. They're intended more as a brief distraction for when you're in a waiting room, or on the bus, or on the crapper. You can complain that they're not good enough to keep your attention for even these short periods, but complaining they aren't as meaty as Europa Universalis or something is just wrong-headed: Making mobile games that complex would hurt their effectiveness in this quick-time-waster role.

Second... well, so what if it doesn't appeal to you? Your argument is little more than "I don't like casual games so therefore they should not exist" and can be applied to any genre: "I don't like JRPGs so therefore they should not exist. I don't like modern shooters so therefore they should not exist. I don't like RTS games so therefore they should not exist. I don't like <insert whatever Scowling Dragon likes to play here> so therefore they should not exist."

[Avaris]

And you can have some GREAT tasting sandwiches and other foods like that. Probably not in the same size as a "proper" meal though.

Exactly :smallbiggrin:




Problem is that the MacDonalds food is slowly taking over the market of lounging at home. Unless something is done, it will kill lounging food. And I don't want to loose the great tasting lounging food.

I can see how you might think that, but I disagree. The market is shifting certainly, but I don't think that mobile (phone) gaming will ever truly take over in the lounging category. Travelling yes, but I feel there is such a strong association with mobile phone gaming and travelling that few people would be willing to do so at home, as it seems a bit weird. Mobile consoles have less of a problem here, as they have never (in my mind) been something for short journeys.

There is certainly a risk that the shops offering food that is good enough for lounging will start to get less in number, but I don't think the niche of good quality food that can be eaten both while travelling and at home will ever be forced out. High end shops may start offering it alongside their tabletop meals, and will have more of an interest in a quality experience than the 'quick food/money' retailers like McDonalds.

I'm getting hungry now...

[Scowling Dragon]

Second... well, so what if it doesn't appeal to you? Your argument is little more than "I don't like casual games so therefore they should not exist"

No my argument is that they are KILLING OFF mobile consoles!

Mostly im looking at the PS Vita.......Though maybe its just a bad luck turn.

Maybe I have overreacted, and the people who play videogames will still buy portable consoles anyway.

[Craft (Cheese)]

No my argument is that they are KILLING OFF mobile consoles!

Mostly im looking at the PS Vita.......Though maybe its just a bad luck turn.

Maybe I have overreacted, and the people who play videogames will still buy portable consoles anyway.

Ooooooooooh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. That's a different thing entirely from what I was talking about.

In which case... so what? Far as I'm concerned, mobile phones being as cheap, powerful, and ubiquitous as they are, portable game consoles have no reason left to exist. If Apple would release an iPhone with a proper set of buttons for gamers, I'd be fully comfortable with the PS Vita and the 3DS biting the dust.

[Scowling Dragon]

Bull****. Again: Its like saying since McDonalds are so cheap and efficient and all, there is no reason for any other food production/ restaurant in the world to exist.

They are cheap. They are NOT powerful, and are possibly the only games that repeat themselves more then console games.

[The Glyphstone]

And games on home consoles aren't meaningless? As much as people like to pretend otherwise, there's not much depth in modern video games.

I beg to differ, Bioshock has lots of depth.:smallwink:

[Geno9999]

*Whimsical tune plays in the background.* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbrgo3vPBdQ)
Interesting... We must not be playing the same mobile games here. I'm very interested to learn which games in particular you seem to despise. I'm not arguing that there isn't trash, but there are diamonds in the rough if you know where to look.
I have Angry Birds on my phone, and there's quite a bit of challenge if you have the need to get the perfect score. Yes, I am aware of Seasons, Space, and Star Wars versions. But you know what all these mission pack sequels (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MissionPackSequel) remind me of? Mega Man. Mario Bros. Street Fighter. Call of Duty. I could go on, but my point is that problems that plague mobile games are hardly exclusive to them.

[Scowling Dragon]

Its that they all lack depth and are mostly mindless. Depend mostly on repetition, grind and psychological tricks to draw you in. Or are adaptations of better games off of handheld consoles.

The puzzle games are alright, but nothing worth the destruction of handheld consoles for.

Even the "Diamonds" that people have shown me are just SLIGHTLY more in depth, and don't have much replay ability at all.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Bull****. Again: Its like saying since McDonalds are so cheap and efficient and all, there is no reason for any other food production/ restaurant in the world to exist.

They are cheap. They are NOT powerful, and are possibly the only games that repeat themselves more then console games.

I think you're confused here: You're conflating mobile hardware with mobile games as a genre. Processing power and interface concerns aside, there's no functional difference as far as the game itself is concerned between whether a game is being played on a phone, on a portable console, a home console, a PC, or a toaster oven. Mobile phones replacing portable consoles is an entirely separate and unrelated issue from casual games replacing "real" games, and you seem to believe that the former implies the latter. It doesn't.

[Scowling Dragon]

No I got that. Its to do with the issue of people only wanting to carry around 1 thing and your more likely to carry around a phone, so this causes a decline of portable games on consoles.

I would rather have my gaming device have a half assed mobile phone function then my mobile phone half assed game function.

[Bayar]

Ooooooooooh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. That's a different thing entirely from what I was talking about.

In which case... so what? Far as I'm concerned, mobile phones being as cheap, powerful, and ubiquitous as they are, portable game consoles have no reason left to exist. If Apple would release an iPhone with a proper set of buttons for gamers, I'd be fully comfortable with the PS Vita and the 3DS biting the dust.

Doubt it would catch on. It would only be a novelty, just Like Nokia N-Gage.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'm rather inclined to think that most of the people playing mobile games and not playing on the DS and such wouldn't have played those other games anyhow.

Mobile phone gaming isn't killing off an existing market, it's opening a new one to non-gamers. Or that's my hunch, at least. Anyone have any hard numbers on the situation, anything beyond anecdotal evidence?

(It's not like books, movies, and every other media haven't gone through this problem already. You could just as easily claim that YouTube has produced the downfall of short films...)

[Craft (Cheese)]

I'm rather inclined to think that most of the people playing mobile games and not playing on the DS and such wouldn't have played those other games anyhow.

Mobile phone gaming isn't killing off an existing market, it's opening a new one to non-gamers. Or that's my hunch, at least. Anyone have any hard numbers on the situation, anything beyond anecdotal evidence?

The 3DS sputtered along for the first year or so, and needed not one but two huge price cuts, haven't checked the most recent sales data for it though. To be fair, the 3DS has tons of other problems going for it aside from just competition with phone gaming.

Though, again, I don't think the death of the portable game console means the death of the non-casual portable game. I believe the good stuff like Pokemon and Professor Layton will find nice, cozy new homes on Android and iOS just fine.

[tensai_oni]

Why so confident in the death of mobile consoles? Nintendo lived through the fail of Virtual Boy. The current situation is nothing in comparison.

The 3DS and PS Vita sell relatively poorly, due to their gimmick-inflated price and poor collection of games, but relatively is the key word here. This is because they are compared to the NDS and PSP, which sold RIDICULOUSLY well. Especially the former. 3DS sold over 20 million copies so far. That's over a half of Nintendo 64's sales total. And the console wasn't out for even 2 years yet.

[warty goblin]

Its that they all lack depth and are mostly mindless. Depend mostly on repetition, grind and psychological tricks to draw you in. Or are adaptations of better games off of handheld consoles.


So these are distinct from other games how then?

[Tono]

To extend the metaphor, I love me some McDonalds. Especially those McDoubles? Oh man, when I splurged, I splurged hard. Spend 6 months eating nothing but rice, carrots, and spam (Carrots and spam were little treats to myself) and those burgers turn into a small piece of heaven.

So to relate. Some people like McDonalds. You might think that grilling a burger at home and eating it is better and it might just be, but others might vastly prefer their quick and easy meal. And some people might not be able to afford to buy a handheld console, and then the games. It is much easier to dish $.99 to keep you entertained for some hours on a phone you already have then it is to buy a console then the big moolah for the individual games. Hell, I love my PSP. Got it years and years ago. Don't own many games for it though, just a few. I garuntee though if those games were 2-5 bucks instead of 20-50 i'd have a lot more.

The argument that it is killing the mobile game industry seems kind of silly to me. It reeks of the fear that once something is 'mainstream' then it is no longer pure and only made to appeal to the masses. Maybe. That may be true. But you know what I think is really killing gaming? And has done for many, many a year? Nintendo. I hate what they have done. Only certain people had an Atari. Then the NES came out and everyone had to have a 'Mario' to play. The SNES came and people were playing there games thinking they were all cool because they knew to blow-it. Then that awful awful N64 came out. That was the WORST. Mario Party. Mario Tennis. GOLDEN EYE!? These people weren't gamers. They weren't people who had run frombattled grues and rescued princess. They spent their time playing these games that appealed to large audiences, and I had to suffer for it. It was horrible. It was at that point I realized, "Gaming is over. Nothing will ever be good again. There are no people who want decent games anymore. People just want this drivel."

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The argument that it is killing the mobile game industry seems kind of silly to me. It reeks of the fear that once something is 'mainstream' then it is no longer pure and only made to appeal to the masses. Maybe. That may be true. But you know what I think is really killing gaming? And has done for many, many a year? Nintendo. I hate what they have done. Only certain people had an Atari. Then the NES came out and everyone had to have a 'Mario' to play. The SNES came and people were playing there games thinking they were all cool because they knew to blow-it. Then that awful awful N64 came out. That was the WORST. Mario Party. Mario Tennis. GOLDEN EYE!? These people weren't gamers. They weren't people who had run frombattled grues and rescued princess. They spent their time playing these games that appealed to large audiences, and I had to suffer for it. It was horrible. It was at that point I realized, "Gaming is over. Nothing will ever be good again. There are no people who want decent games anymore. People just want this drivel."
*slow clap*

:smallbiggrin:

[Mando Knight]

The 3DS and PS Vita sell relatively poorly, due to their gimmick-inflated price and poor collection of games, but relatively is the key word here. This is because they are compared to the NDS and PSP, which sold RIDICULOUSLY well. Especially the former. 3DS sold over 20 million copies so far. That's over a half of Nintendo 64's sales total. And the console wasn't out for even 2 years yet.

No, the 3DS looked like it was selling poorly because it was comparing then-current DS sales to then-current 3DS sales, rather than 1st year DS sales to 1st year 3DS sales, where the 3DS sales were more comparable. The Vita... will take some time and effort before it gets back to the actually-competing-with-Nintendo level the PSP was before the introduction of the new systems. Probably in the form of Monster Hunter, but that's going to the 3DS.

[The_Jackal]

I think your focus is misplaced. While the mobile platforms have limitations (namely cost, computing power and screen size), it's the crummy and derivative games they're making that are bad. The fact that they're on a phone doesn't make them any more or less bad. The same game on a desktop computer would be Pingu Throw (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/games/pingu), ie: a mindless, fairly simplistic and ultimately dull little game.

[DigoDragon]

I have nothing against mobile gaming. With the analogy, McDonalds is okay to eat once in a while, but you aren't forced to buy into it. Just gotta make the time to cook yourself a proper meal when you're home.

I won't personally buy phone games though. I prefer a more dedicated portable gaming device like my DS.

[Runestar]

I think mobile gaming is the way to go for some types of games. Take for instance CCGs like M:TG and shadow era (which I am currently playing). The ability to access it from a smartphone means I can get a quick game in from anywhere (be it on a bus or train) without having to sit behind a PC. :smallsmile:

[Talvereaux]

The killer app and top selling game for the original Game Boy was... Tetris. Portable gaming being the alternative for casual-oriented puzzle games is hardly a new thing, nor is it a sign the medium's been dumbed down. Cell phone technology's gotten better and more convenient, and those kinds of games aren't exactly hardware intensive, so mobile phones are better for the original 'Tetris' market that made the Game Boy so successful. Why buy a 3DS or PS Vita for over a hundred USD, then pay 20-40 for each simple puzzle game, when you could just use a consolidated service with the phone you've already paid for and buy apps for 1-5 USD?

Such doomsaying on the medium's integrity takes place every time a form of old media gets eclipsed by new media. The truth is when we complain about 'kids these days' favoring something as 'anti-intellectual' as mobiles as a gaming platform, we're just echoing the sentiments of everyone we laugh at now who gets sooky when kids play video games in general. I don't think this is that different from consoles eclipsing arcades. Technology's far from static, and the forms we grow up with aren't going to be in charge of the industry forever, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing, either.

Frankly, though, I think the Vita would have flopped no matter what. Sony puts too much emphasis on having top of the line hardware. While that sounds like a good thing, and it can be, it's a sword that cuts both ways in jacking up costs of production which makes their products a lot less sellable to the general public, especially to the aforementioned 'Tetris' market. As for the 3DS, I think there's a lot of exaggeration and cherrypicking on the topic of how badly it failed (and for that matter, if it did at all). The launch was pretty bad, but sales have accelerated a lot since then between getting some actual games and the price cuts over the last couple years.

[INoKnowNames]

I don't think anyone should be degrading another type of gaming... there's so much elitism, so many labels... PC, HardCore, Compeditive, Casual, 360 vs Wii/U vs PS3... Why can't we all just shut up and play?

I suppose I should actually read through the thread before I comment, but I'm not at all scared of Mobile Phone Games. They remind me of what the first video games were like from what I've seen of 'em. Never the less, it'd take a hell of a lot to get me to put down whatever Nintendo's newest toy is. A portable PS3 strangely enough didn't. And mobile gaming certainly hasn't. So long as I keep getting to add to my Pokedex, and games like Kid Icarus Uprising get released, everyone else can do whatever the hell they want.

NINTENDO SHOULD MAKE THEIR NEXT HANDHELD DOUBLE AS A PHONE! :D

[The Succubus]

And games on home consoles aren't meaningless? As much as people like to pretend otherwise, there's not much depth in modern video games.
Unless, of course, you're talking about fun. But if people have fun playing mobile games (as clearly seems to be the case), who are you to tell them that their version of fun is wrong or somehow inferior to yours?

Ice Pick Lodge's The Void and Double Fine's Stacking wish to have words with you down this dark alley.

[Sipex]

I don't think the influx of mobile gaming is the plague you think it is. Many of these games are produced and created by small studios who don't have the funds to compete with the console market. This allows these places, full of gamers just like us who all wanted to get into the industry, to participate and contribute.

Besides, just because a game isn't big, that it doesn't have depth or have a huge production value doesn't mean it can't be good, after all, a good game is a fun game. A lot of the best mobile games are built up from a simple but incredibly fun concept which probably wouldn't satisfy larger games. Just because a game isn't deep doesn't mean it can't be good.

[Scowling Dragon]

Your all right. As my streetpass picks up at least 3 other people when I enter a mall (Brilliant idea by the way), this shows that Im just over-worrying.

[Darth Stabber]

Funny thing is they make some good gba, gbc, gb, nes, snes, and sega genesis emulators for android (I can't speak for windows phone or ios), bringing some of that old school gaming into your phone. And sometimes you want a mindless game to fill time. If I am on the bus, I like having a time waster. And not all of the games are mindless, many puzzle games and certain tower defense games offer a somewhat more cerebral challenge than normal mobile fare, in fact I can think of several that are better than a great deal of what's on the home console market. Robo Defence and Plants vs. Zombies can be pretty involving, especially pvz. Lately I have been playing the crap out of dark summoner, and that game has beautiful art, and some interesting mechanics thrown on top of the old fb game formula.

90% of everything is crap, it's true of mobile phone, it's true of mobile console, it's true of home console, it's true of pc, it's true of board games, it's true of card games and it's true of pen and paper rpgs. It's, in fact, true of all media. Find what works, and if nothing you like comes out ever again, blaim capitalism, cynicism, or plain laziness.

[PersonMan]

To be honest, I don't think the 'McDonald's vs home meal vs better home/restaurant meal' metaphor really works.

It's all about what you want at the time. If I want a quick, yummy (to me) meal and am underway somewhere, I'll get Mcdonald's. If I want Biftiki (a steak-esque thing with cheese in it), I go to this Greek restaurant nearby. If I want a cheeseburger, Biftiki isn't ideal, and vice versa.

To me, saying McDonald's is killing lounging around food making is like saying couches are killing chairs. You sit in a chair sometimes and on a couch in others, they have their specific niche and don't really compete for many things.

[D.KnightSpider]

Darth Stabber pretty much nailed it. Yes, there's a lot of drivel on the mobile platform, but if you walk into GameStop and peruse the shelves, you'll find a lot of console/portable shovelware and problematic licensed games as well. Sure there's a lot of bad games on the mobile platform, but there are plenty of challenging games with a lot of depth as well. (I do love me some Kairosoft.)

I've got to be honest, though. Most of my gaming these days is done on the mobile platform, not because I'm anti-console/portable or anything, mostly because I'm so busy with work and school that spending two hours with a console just isn't feasible. Sure, I could buy a portable system, but that still requires dedicated time I don't have. Plus, it's one more thing to carry around when I'm already lugging an overstuffed backpack everywhere.

When all's said and done, isn't the purpose of gaming to have fun? So long as I get that out of the experience, does it matter what platform I use?

[Hiro Protagonest]

My favorite mobile games are by far Cut the Rope and Battle Nations. Cut the Rope is just a fun puzzle game, while Battle Nations is a strategic and tactical battle game that, while not having great depth, has better combat than Pokemon and good funny characters with funny lines. Sergeant Ramsey, Lieutenant Morgan... oh they're all great. Of course, I have an iPad 1, and can therefore no longer play.

I hope to see a better version of Battle Nations released someday, for a more serious gaming platform. Oh, and an improved friend system (as it stands, it's basically "do the arena-type battles, send/accept friend requests, go to their bases and click on their buildings to give both them and you extra resources/time reduction". It's good, but it's not really a "play with your friends" kind of thing). And no more damn microtransactions (seriously, I thought the Heavy Weapons Factory would allow me to unlock never-before-seen troopers and train them, separate of units being trained in the barracks. Nope, it just unlocked the Bazooka Team and a couple other classes that were greyed out in the Barracks. And it cost me 30 nanopods. Before the cost of nanopod-purchased units such as the Bazooka Team. Just for a point of comparison, you start with ten, and gain one per level, plus one in a few other circumstances).

[Iskandar]

Eh, the distinction between a mobile device and a handheld gaming device is already blurring. Especially with tablets, what with the new 7 inch mini tablets showing up.

As for mobile games being crap, I wouldn't go that far. Yes, there are a lot of bad games out there, but this has been true of every gaming system ever. The reason why it feels worse is because of the sheer volume of games available now, especially for Apple products.

I own an IPad, as well as a Galaxy Tab, and I can say with experience that not all mobile games are shallow or cheap. You have to dig a bit more, casual games are a big thing for mobile, so the games section tends to get flooded with them, and the more successful of those types spawn imitators and knockoffs. But among all that are some truly awesome games. Waking Mars, Ghost Trick, The Room, nearly anything made by Kairosoft (though, to be fair, they tend to be a bit similar to each other), and that is just off the top of my head.

And that is not counting the fact that developers are starting to port games to mobile platforms. I can play Final Fantasy Tactics on my IPad, which is a wonderful, wonderful thing.

Not to say there aren't problems, however. The biggest thing is the cost of the games. Paying forty or sixty bucks for a PC game is reasonable. Half that for handheld games also tends to be ok. But for most mobile games, people will balk at paying more than five dollars, which doesn't offer a lot of incentive to developers to make quality games. Which is why in-app purchases have become such a big thing. But that is a whole other discussion I won't get into.