[PF] Crafting - splicing existing items?

[Ryulin18]

The party witch and munchkin has taken craft wondorous item...oh no

First thing he wants to do is to create an item from scratch that are two preexisting items that he knows about. For safety's sake, I reiterate. He does not own these items, yet wants to make an item that has both of their abilities in one item.

The items in question are the corset of dire witchcraft (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/corset-of-dire-witchcraft) and the cackling hag's vest (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/blouse-cackling-hag-s).

Together, they give him
+4 AC
+2 CL on one hex for 24 hours, chosen at start of the day
+2 intimidate
Cackle 2/day as a swift instead of a move


and he prices this as 12,200gp. I won't try and explain his maths because it was a cluster ****. But can someone total all this up?

Secondly, he wants to make it a witch only item or a half orc only item (negating 30% of cost :smallconfused:). Would this work with an item where half the stuff is witch only?

[Ryulin18]

His explanation - You take the most expensive item, then add the next most expensive item + 50% and that is the base price for an item with both their abilities.

I'm reading it and it says "each additional power or ability not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price."

"Power and ability", that's my sticking point. Each item has 2 of them, but he is calculating the item as an ability in it's own right.

Please, my giant friends, help me!

[herrhauptmann]

His explanation - You take the most expensive item, then add the next most expensive item + 50% and that is the base price for an item with both their abilities.

I'm reading it and it says "each additional power or ability not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price."

"Power and ability", that's my sticking point. Each item has 2 of them, but he is calculating the item as an ability in it's own right.

Please, my giant friends, help me!
I don't see a problem with the item itself. It's not like both add a +2 armor bonus, that he's combining into a +4 or anything (same type bonuses don't normally stack)
Buying price 22k+ 6k*1.5= 31k
Building price is half that, 15.5k
That's the standard stacking rule in the 3.0/3.5DMG, I don't know what it is in PF. (3.5 MiC uses a different method of adding costs up)
And I have no idea how he got ~12k for both.

Making it an X only item is incredibly cheesy. You're free to not allow this tactic. I'm not sure where it says you get a 30% discount by doing so.

PF might also require you to raise the DC of crafting this combined item, which he might be neglecting to mention.

It does say difficulty to create is spellcraft: DC10+CL of item. So 16 and 13. This goes up if other people contribute. I could also see it as being more difficult to layer other enchantments on top of existing ones, so the second, third, fourth enchantments will have higher DCs than normal. Maybe a +2 DC for the second enchantment, a +4DC for the third, +6 DC for the fourth?

Which would be harder? Making a sword anyone can use? Or making a sword only some people can use? The latter. So I can see a case for you raising the DC of crafting the items with restrictions. DC10+ (CL* 4/3) for a restriction that lowers cost by a third. You're trying to do more spells, with fewer components. Or DC= (10+CL)*4/3.

[Crake]

If we split each item into its components we can start determining costs of things

The corset essentially has 2 functions:
+4 AC
and a witch specific ability

The +4 AC costs 16,000, therefore the witch specific ability costs 6000 (which has already been multiplied by 1.5 since it is the lower costing ability, it would be 4000 normally)

The blouse also has 2 functions:
+2 skill bonus
and a witch specific ability

In this case, the +2 skill bonus costs 400gp, but this ability is clearly the lower costing ability, so it is instead 600gp. That means the primary ability is worth 5400gp

So all 4 abilities would be
16,000gp +4 AC
4000 first witch specific ability
5400 second witch specific ability
400 +2 skill

Multiply all but the most expensive and you get 30,700gp base price, divided in half, since he's making it himself, so 15,350gp, and he requires CL6, 5 ranks in intimidate, hideous laughter and mage armor to craft it.

[Toy Killer]

Which would be harder? Making a sword anyone can use? Or making a sword only some people can use? The latter. So I can see a case for you raising the DC of crafting the items with restrictions. DC10+ (CL* 4/3) for a restriction that lowers cost by a third. You're trying to do more spells, with fewer components. Or DC= (10+CL)*4/3.

Honestly, when I saw the price reduction for Only specific people can use, I always considered it on the basis of the item itself. A sword, for example, that grants extra smite evils, isn't useful to anyone but paladins. Therefore, it gets a reduced price. However, a +3 holy Undead bane sword that happens to only work for paladins? I would put a price increase on that (Rather then reduction) as it has some repressive abilities on it, to ensure non-paladins don't use it for their own ill-intent.

[herrhauptmann]

Honestly, when I saw the price reduction for Only specific people can use, I always considered it on the basis of the item itself. A sword, for example, that grants extra smite evils, isn't useful to anyone but paladins. Therefore, it gets a reduced price. However, a +3 holy Undead bane sword that happens to only work for paladins? I would put a price increase on that (Rather then reduction) as it has some repressive abilities on it, to ensure non-paladins don't use it for their own ill-intent.

Yeah, everyone's got their view of how it works when an item is 'Certain people only'. I always think of it as an extra spell layered on top of the others, one like Merlin used for Excalibur, "Only the king can draw me from the stone." Or whatever he said.
Making an item more difficult to craft should raise the cost to buy. By standard logic. (Or at least by my logic)

But if you find/make an item, and sell it to a merchant later, he's not going to pay full price for that more difficult/expensive item. He's going to end up buying it from you, then holding on to it until someone happens along that can use it. So it's going to be taking up inventory, essentially a loss, until he finally gets it sold. So he's not going to buy it at normal price, but demand a discount. And since we already know that merchants control the world...

Hmm, hey OP:
Both those items the player wants to make only provide benefits for witches, right? Since they're already witch only items, sounds like you have an ironclad reason to say he can't use 'witch only' as a price reducer. Well, ironclad beyond "I'm the DM and say so."

[Ryulin18]

Okay, after pondering everything, here is what I'm going with.

"vest of the the cackling dire witch"
+ 4 ac
+ 2 intimidate
+ 2CL 1/day on 1 hex for 24 hours
+ 2/day cackle as swift

the pricing is;

16,000gp +4 AC
5400 (second witch specific ability)
4000 (first witch specific ability)
400 (+2 skill)

+50% on the bottom 3 = 30,700gp base cost

Spellcraft DC to create = 17
5 + players caster level (6 needed) + 2 per extra enchantment (total +6)

How does that seem?