Campaign help

[PaigeXenon]

I have been atempting to establich a stable campaign that that my players will enjoy and play for a while wiht the same characters but as of right now i just have a mashed up bunch of ideas. my other attemts do do this I have been unable to link diffrent adventures together well and then the players lose intrest not havein a goal to work toards.

...anyway My current starting idea is that the PCs (no mater what their history or personal backgrounds are) get captured in a Neogi slaver raid. then they eihter get sold as gladiators or are focred to fight as a display for potential buyers. while in the neogi custity they have 2 option try to fight their way out or wait for rescue from an ainti abberation group..... I just have no idea how to really do the gladiator thing or what to have them do after... I'm a bad DM and need lots of advice/help

[BowStreetRunner]

Start with an outline - George Lucas originally wrote the entire Star Wars saga (all nine episodes) on just about a dozen pages. Once you have the overall story-line worked out you can begin filling in the details with level-appropriate encounters each step of the way.

[Yomega]

I have had the same kind of problem and I do have a bit of advice on the topic.

1. Have a overarching scheme of what you want always going on in the background like a grand goal of the BBEG or the general direction you see the campain going, then use that to tie everything back into itself it doesnt need to make sence to the players hell it doesnt need to make sence to you all the time, but having something to relate seemingly random things back has helped me tie my stories together and keep the game interesting.

Best part is once the players see some random conection to a simple encounter in the past they will think your a evil genius and help them dig a little deeper in game.

2. Dont over plan things, when you leave players to it they cause enough trouble on there own and you can just take what they gave you and reincorperate it.

For example one session a couple of my players had to miss a session so I detoured the story so the others wouldnt miss to much so I sent them to a random town I made up on the spot and gave them a hook, a pair of ettins were attacking the city wall.

From that they have joind in a local celibration, stoped a city wide riot, found a giant tribe of giants, negotiated a peace treaty with said giants, found out the city was being manipulated by a sinister dracolitch disguised as a high ranking millitary officer, went to the giants for help, found out they were being controled by the dracolitch now, and then the sesion ended so I linked it back that the dracolitch was a high ranking subordinate of the BBEG and he was using the players to seize control of both factions.

The point is players will make there own goals if you let them.

3. Leave some details undecided, if you have a boss-ish guy with several feats or options just select the important ones and note that you have x feats or skill points or spells left, that way when the players tie up that rouge you wanted to get away well now he has 8 ranks in escape artist or he turns out to have the <insert random feat here> relivent to the situation and just roll with it. But do try to make it reasonable that elvin mage didnt take improved sunder just because.

Hope that helps

[PaigeXenon]

But I thought that every single elven mage had improved sunder. XD

I have an obsession about needing to be planed. but then I don't know what I really need to have planed and then freak out about the smallest details. I am also not all that great at comming up wiht things on the sopt.

THis campaign is going to be very aberation hevy and im not sure what to do for BBEG in order to keep every thing some what tied together. I'm not even sure how to make this first adventure work in an intersting way(not even sure a good startig level for neogi prisoners hopefully low ish if I can make it work). I know I want to have atleast 2 choices to the PCs
1) wait for rescue
2) escape on their own
3)???

[BowStreetRunner]

Okay, how about something like this:

Stage 1: Slave Training - the Neogi slavers sell the PCs along with a group of other slaves to a new owner who runs a Gladatorial enterprise. (If you have not watched the Spartacus series from STARZ, now would be a good time to go rent it.) The PCs meet the other NPC slaves - both other gladiators and servants of their new master. They also meet their trainers, who put them through some matches against other slaves to see what they can do. Eventually they are lined up for some low-level events. These should be mostly opening-act type large melees against teams of enemy gladiators. Make the opposing gladiators other races that the PCs shouldn't have much in common with at this point - easier to live with having to kill them if necessary.

Stage 2: The Arena Circuit - at this stage the PCs should have gained a level in their first group of battles and whatever other encounters you threw their way. They are now ready for the circuit. Their owner sends them under escort to a series of arenas. They now get smaller group combats - even some one-on-one for those who can handle it. They also get to see a little of the layout of the land.

Stage 3: The Tournament - the PCs are back at their master's academy and word comes of an upcoming tournament. At this stage a few other things happen all at once: there are a bunch of new slaves to replace the gladiators who have died since the PCs arrived; a group of NPC slaves start planning an escape (the PCs can ignore this, join in, report it to their master and be rewarded or whatever they want...the NPCs will actually never have a chance to see their plan through due to being sold or killed in battle or something else, this is just a device to get the PCs some information about an opportunity to escape that will be present at the Tournament); the master will also give some of the PCs an opportunity to earn the rank of Trustee, which has greater freedom associated with it and more responsibilities as well.

Stage 4: Revolt - whether the PCs actually launch on a plan to escape at the tournament or now, there will be a different sort of revolt during the tournament. The host of the tournament finds one of his generals has launched a revolt against him and the city is thrown into chaos. The PCs find themselves temporarily free in a city at war with both sides of the battle being enemies who will kill them on sight. They have to survive until things settle down or escape entirely...

Anyway, you get the idea. Once you have a good outline (feel free to use any of this you like) then just start putting together a set of encounters that fit what is going on during the particular time-period. Make sure to mix it up a bit: for instance during Stage 1 you could include a fight in the dining hall with other slaves and also the discovery of a cache left by previous slaves who were planning an escape (this last would be a puzzle/trap encounter as the previous slaves had tunneled into the cistern below and hid their tools and such there).

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Definitely start with an outline and an idea of what your villain(s) is/are doing when they aren't "on screen". Keep things bare-bones enough that you can add details as you think of (or find, or decide you need) other things you like.

For example (and please don't read this if you're in a game that's meeting on Friday to continue a plot about genies):
I started my game knowing the main villain was a Rakshasa hidden in plain sight as the party's early quest giver and that he was going to be using them (and other parties) to collect artifacts to help him break a magic seal to return the rest of his kind to the mortal plane. The party wasn't really interested in running fetch quests, so I added in a side-plot about an ancient evil elf queen returning to take her throne back from the current elf queen. The ancient elf queen is (of course) allied with the Rakshasa and will give him the some of the artifacts he needs once she's done conquering the country. This both ties into a PC's backstory (as the apprentice of the queen whose peaceful rule is threatened) and give the PCs a more direct enemy to oppose, while still letting my original plan progress in the background. Exactly what's going on in the background, when exposed, will tie into a couple more of the PCs' backstories.

This is another benefit of leaving your outline loose enough to add to is that you can use it to connect your PCs to the story and engage them more than just railroading them through a prewritten script. Starting with the villain and plan I gave above, maybe one of your players had a mentor or family member killed for one of the artifacts the villain wants; if they investigate and follow that personal sub-plot, it leads back to the main plot. Maybe one of the PCs is a member of an ancient that fights evil; if they follow the missions the order keeps trying to give them, they find out that a rakshasa has escaped the seal that the order created centuries ago and have a reason to pursue the main plot. (Not that they knew hunting down a rakshasa was the main plot, of course; as far as they're concerned, doing fetch quests for Mr. Boring was the main plot and they've escaped that.)

You have to be careful with this, since you don't want there to be a session where everyone at the table is left standing around saying "So, your parents/mentor/puppy was killed by Lord Badguy? Huh, so was mine." Finding different ways or different angles to connect the players to the plot helps. Maybe one PC's dead mentor was actually working for the villain and either was killed by the ancient order or killed trying to complete a mission for the villain. (Setting up the question of whose side the PC is on, his mentor's or the party's.) Maybe one of the PC's stories ends up putting them on the trail of one of the villain's artifacts, but they want it for themselves and can't let him get it (so his goal isn't necessarilly to go kill the bad guy (though that would work) but to protect his artifact however he decides to). Be creative. The more branches the villain's plan has, the more you can hand plot hooks from and the more ways your players can get to where you want them to be by following the plot they wanted to follow.

TLDR: Have a basic idea, but leave room to connect your players backstories and goals to the backbone you created. That way, when they follow their own agendas and end up finding the plot you originally planned, they get to feel like the plot was tailored to them and their choices and you get to use the cool bits you planned from the start.

[Yomega]

Another point I forgot earlyer when your players meet the BBEG the first time and acidently kill him (this actualy happens alot in my experiance) then he wassnt the BBEG he was just a mook and introduce the "real" BBEG later

Also look at some random generators I always have the pages loaded as I go into my sessions my recent favorite is http://donjon.bin.sh/ it even has a plot generator if you get stuck.

And finaly watch some improv shows the key to being creative on the spot is to say yes, I dont mean when the player askes can I find a keen vorpal thundering scimitar for 5 gold but if they look for something and it wont wreck your game then let it be, "Ohh you want to find a church of hextor to see if there doing something evil?" sure its there, ya some scary clerics attack and ohh they had some illegal items and a note from<person you want them to deal with>, full circle back on track.

Also loved your 123 in your last post leave an option for them to fill, generaly if its ausome it works.

Cheers and good luck

[RFLS]

George Lucas originally wrote the entire Star Wars saga (all nine episodes) on just about a dozen pages.

Yes, you must take lessons from this master of narrative.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Another point I forgot earlyer when your players meet the BBEG the first time and acidently kill him (this actualy happens alot in my experiance) then he wassnt the BBEG he was just a mook and introduce the "real" BBEG laterOr you could go with the classic twist that either the BBEG's death set off the final part of his plan or he was too smart to confront the party directly while his plan could still be stopped. While they were fighting through his guards or navigating his dungeon or whatever, he put set the final stages in motion and the PCs now have to either out-race whatever apocalypse he's set off or find some way to fix the damage before it's too late.

[PaigeXenon]

Thanks alot for you help and advice guys.
This is probaly the coolest idea for getting a party together i have had.
I am probably going to set it up like Bow suggested. I would like to have an open ended outline to tie in wiht personal storys but only a few of my players even bother to think up backstorys let alone tell me about them.

My BBEG is going to be a Tsochar still working on his evil plan and how it ties in to the neogi slave trade and gladiator ring.

For the gladiator fights I know I should probably limit the equipment the PCs should get but how limited should i make it. Would giving the PCs consumable items like potions or low charge wands/ single use itmes as rewards for winning fights and things a good thing.

[BowStreetRunner]

Complete Warrior page 131 has some info on Gladiatorial combat...keep in mind that in most historical examples of gladiatorial combat, death matches were premium events. Most ordinary fights were less bloody, particularly as owners didn't want to risk valuable slaves for little reward.

In the end the choice of what to give the PCs during matches will be for their master a matter of profitability. Certainly, some level of flashy magic is good for selling tickets - flaming swords look pretty fantastic after all! On the other hand, there could also be a sort of black market for contraband among the slaves. "Trade me some tobacco and a pint of mead and I'll give you a potion of Aid for your next battle..."

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Thanks alot for you help and advice guys.
This is probaly the coolest idea for getting a party together i have had.
I am probably going to set it up like Bow suggested. I would like to have an open ended outline to tie in wiht personal storys but only a few of my players even bother to think up backstorys let alone tell me about them.I specifically asked for them before the first session of our campaign, though my players (for the most part) needed very little encouragement. (One guy sent me over 2000 words about his character, her homeland, her personality and the flavor he wanted and the feats he wanted to take to make it happen. In other words, a player who's after my own heart.) Even just getting your players to answer a few little questions (Where do you come from? Why are you an adventurer? What's your biggest goal?) can give you a fair bit of fuel and can be handled in 5 minutes.

One way you could try to get your players to give you backstories to work with is to promise rewards for characters who have goals and meet them. In my group, only one character had a really specific character goal and has worked to acheive it. Everyone else has had a more passive goal ("Hey, apprentice. Go learn about magic and stuff.") or a goal they haven't really done anything with ("My mentor was killed by three guys in black cloaks. One had a scaley face." "Searching the room of the guy in the black cloak who admits he knew your mentor, you find what look like shed scales from a huge snake." "Huh. Ok. I go back to the inn.") Since the guy who's being proactive about his goal is about to reach a major milestone in it, I'm going to give him some kind of (interesting but not game-breaking) power up, like letting him replace some earlier levels with racial substitution levels he likes that are for another race but are thematically appropriate or opening up a previously forbidden prestige class or template. I've made it clear to my other players that similar rewards will be available if they pursue their goals so we'll see how much the promise of shiney new toys actually helps.

If they really don't want to mess with backstories, don't push it. There's a big difference between someone with a story in his head who just needs a little push to tell you about it and a someone who just wants to get back to kicking down doors and killing orcs with his greataxe and sometimes you just need to respect that difference.

[dantiesilva]

I find that using the Daelkry from Eberron and Alienist PrC from from complete Arcane work wounder together. Throw in some flesh Warpers PrC. And you have a solid baseline for a abberation heavy campaign. Hope this helps you. Everyone else helped with all the major stuff.

[PaigeXenon]

Other than the basic weapons and armor I think i will have a stack of note cards with 1 time use items or fancy weapons that the players can "draw" the more times they win the better stuff I add to the deck.

Ok what do i do about the party mages? gladiator matches are mostly a melee hit it with sticks sort of thing. so when you add mages how do i keep things fair? sorry if its a stupid question

[Toy Killer]

Other good ideas to keep in mind:

a compilation of "Chandler's" to keep the party moving
Chandler's law is "If you ever have writer's block that can't be over come, have someone kick in the door with a gun". In creative writing, it works just as described; However, in Role Playing games it's a useful tool. A pre-made list of NPCs and Encounters, used to keep the players in game and focused with what's at hand.

They don't have to provide anything story-wise, or can be plot hooks the players have dropped on them. If you want the aberration theme, things like an Orc war band become a clutch of Orc Cultists. If you take note of something a player (or players, in some cases) that they have done illegally, You can drop a band of bounty hunters or other police like units to take them in for questioning. Or could just simply be a rampant Owlbear that wandered to close to the town.

So, when the players start getting antsy and talking about football or Zelda or what have you, have them roll initiative; All of a sudden, they want to know what's going on.

Don't limit yourself to one BBEG
Note, there should be an 'Arc Villain', but he shouldn't be the only one in the plane with a plan in motion. Even if Squibbles the Goblin's plan is to steal a very nice jacket (Notably small in the large scheme of things), who that jacket belongs too, how he is going to get it done and the value of the jacket to him are all things that can have interesting stories behind them. Things that can break up the status qou of the over arcing story they've been on.

Even in 'Bottles' where the rest of the world is out side of their perception, individuals have goals and desires. What if Kragg, the Orc of the north mountains has grown up in the gladiatorial ring, and is four matches away from his title of King of Bloodshed? A title he's worked his entire life for? Now a nameless NPC into a story of his own, and What risks is he willing to take to defend himself from these, atypical slaves that were just brought to the pins? This is what takes a 'Meh' Encounter and makes it full and eventful. When he is at his last 20 hp and screams in fury about how they're not going to take his dream from him, the players will remember the match.

30x30 gets boring
The greatest thing for a DM to learn, and hardest, is when to meet expectations, when to exceed expectations and when to fold beneath expectations. there are no hard set rules on when to each, and sometimes, you just gotta react to the players. If players are tired of the BBEG, Storming the final lair and brushing his underlings and minions aside with ease, do you give them a dull fanfare good bye with a standard room and fight and let them have the victory? Sometimes, yes; Usually no. If the players aren't engaged and feeling really nonchalant about taking him on, you have to make them hate him. They should feel good when he pulls the rug out and the players are still standing and take him down despite his best efforts. But... if you pull the rug out from under them, and they are truly annoyed, they're not going to care as long as he's dead.

You keep things familiar when you want them to pass through (Note: Don't describe it as familiar, or they'll spend hours searching the room due to metagaming -_-;), when due to time constraints, or just insignificance, nothing is important to note. You Exceed when you want them to be paying close attention, when important notes or story blocks are being dropped, or NPCs that are more important then they initially appear are making an entrance. You fold under when the players need to feel good and shine. This starts to get ambiguous, as each group is different, and each player has different expectations. However, it is the more important trait you can learn as a DM.

[dantiesilva]

For the mages have them do wizards chess. Or spell battles on their own against others of their kind.

[PaigeXenon]

Well for mages I was thinking like have one spell book that they are alloed to prepair daily spells from so every wizard has the same selection ot choose from and its all about how they make use of their choices. this would only work for Wizards tho, sorcers, clerics, druids and psions would not work well like this. (i have figured out that locking up a psion is a stupid move in the first place- i broke an old DMs campaign as one when he locked us up) Having a single spell book would really screw over the wizards in the group once they get free as well.... I'm just trying to make this an even playing field no mater what the PCs chose.

Ok another stupid question (I know you're all probably sick of my stupid questions by now) What kind of opponet sould the PCs be fighting duing this whole thing? I'm hoping to get this started wiht level 3 PCs and idk if i should try and make unique NPC partys or just have them fight strange exotic creatures or maybe some mix of both?

[dantiesilva]

Dolgaunt's Eberron campaign setting p.281
Dolgrim's Ebberon campaign setting p.282
Tentecal spider Secrets of Xendirk p.83
Quorcraft warforged Secrets of Xendirk p.84
Yuan-Ti Wretchling Secrets of Xendirk p.86

Basically any template from Secrets of Sarlona

Hope this helps you some.. The strongest thing here is the CR4 Quorcraft warforged all the others are CR 1-2

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Ok another stupid question (I know you're all probably sick of my stupid questions by now) What kind of opponet sould the PCs be fighting duing this whole thing? I'm hoping to get this started wiht level 3 PCs and idk if i should try and make unique NPC partys or just have them fight strange exotic creatures or maybe some mix of both?I say go crazy. Are you doing one-on-one or party-on-party combat (or a mix of both)? I'd recommend party-on-party so that you aren't left with one player fighting and everyone else sitting around with nothing to do. Either way, a mix of NPC parties and exotic monsters should keep things more interesting than just one or the other.

I don't really like the idea of forcing wizards to use a common spellbook. Look at it from the perspective of whoever's running the gladiatorial fights. You want to make money. To do that, you need to draw big crowds. To do that you need to put on a good show so people keep coming back. To do that, you need enough variety that customers don't get bored after seing one or two matches. Giving fighters the freedom to bring new and different (and above all, interesting) spells and tactics into their fights does this much better than having a limited arsenal that your audience sees over and over. You don't care about a fair fight (though the illusion of a fair fight might help keep things interesting); you care about a fight that's exciting to watch.

Also, (depending on how common magic is in your setting) the magic could be a big draw. If most of your customers only rarely get to see magic worked in theire day to day lives, having a fair number big flashy spells could really get people's attention. (It would be like being the Michael Bay of gladiatorial combat!) Even if magic is fairly common, how often is a random civilian going to see big impressive combat magic? You might see prestidigitation or mage hand all the time and might even be able to cast it yourself if you're lucky, but how often would anyone but adventurers use burning hands, color spray or glitterdust?

That said, you'll want to find ways to prevent certain spells. You don't want too many save-or-die/lose/suck spells since those aren't as interesting as a longer fight and you definitly don't want someone to just cast fly and escape from the games entirely. Maybe fighters are forced to wear a magic collar that automatically counterspells certain spells if they try to cast them.

N.B.: I'm using fighter to refer to people who fight. Not to people with the class.

[PaigeXenon]

There will be mostly Party-v-Party and Party-v-Critter but i plan on a few 1-v-1 fights if i think the PCs can handle them.

Magic in my world isn't rare but is also isn't common place like in Eberron. so Mage fights would probably still be a big deal for the common people. My plan was to have an anti magic field around/above the arena and in the slave pens to prevent some of the crazy spells from being used.

I would like to find a way to prevent death in the arena like an item that automatically stabilizes or something so they would only die from massive amounts of overkill. how ever I don't really like the Idea of giving out crazy items like the counter-spelling items or something that prevents dieing because what is to stop the players for holding on to said items once they are freed.

[dantiesilva]

Could have the Arena master have a wand or such that has an sanctuary spell cast into it that was made by someone who specializes in such spells to make sure that none of their property is killed.

[leegi0n]

I'm a bad DM and need lots of advice/help


Don't ever admit this.

[PaigeXenon]

Don't ever admit this.

but its true I am only DMing because no one else in the group wants to.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

I would like to find a way to prevent death in the arena like an item that automatically stabilizes or something so they would only die from massive amounts of overkill. how ever I don't really like the Idea of giving out crazy items like the counter-spelling items or something that prevents dieing because what is to stop the players for holding on to said items once they are freed.While you're right in principle, there are ways around it. Maybe the item is just a conduit for a magical effect of the arena. It will stabilize you if you get beat up there but is useless elsewhere. The collar of counter spelling wouldn't be too bad if there's a limited list of things it will counter. It would be too specific to sell to much and too difficult to use offensively. (If you can hold someone still long enough to put a collar on them, you can hold them still long enough to just kill them.)

In my game, I've used an enchanted arena where all damage is treated as nonlethal for some training and sparring. You could try something like that mixed with some programmed illusions to make realistic blood and wounds and whatnot for the crowd. (Maybe make the magic only apply to humanoids so monsters the party fights still get killed for real since they're harder to house, feed and generally control.)

[PaigeXenon]

The first few fights will be lethal no mater what because they have no use for slaves who can't fight. the stabilization item would probably be a conduit for the magic of the arena. The counterspell necklaces however I'm not even sure what spells would be be worth counterspelling they will only have access to up to 2nd-3rd level spells while they are prisoners. so they wont have alot of the save or die/lose/suck spells to use

[dantiesilva]

But if they decided to stay their and protect their new masers because it is easier and the masters treat them well enough they may choose to stay as champions of the arena and thus gin 4th and above level spells which would be bad.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

The counterspell necklaces however I'm not even sure what spells would be be worth counterspelling they will only have access to up to 2nd-3rd level spells while they are prisoners. so they wont have alot of the save or die/lose/suck spells to useAnything that the propriator would interpret as ending a fight too quickly without enough spectacle or as making escape too easy. A few from a quick glance at the wizard list are Sleep, Deep Slumber, Glitterdust (might be spectacular enough to allow), Color Spray (if levels are low enough for it to be at its best), Knock and Fly (for preventing escape attempts). Hold person could be a problem if the fights were more one-on-one, but agaisnt a group it only stops one guy and against a monster it does nothing so it should be fine. Basically, if it can neutralize a large portion of an enemy party with one spell, it's probably bad for business.

[PaigeXenon]

I am trying to figure out what books I want to keep this limited to because if I allow the players to use every book the spell lists will be crazy long and I will probably miss a few that will mess up the arena fights. I also want to some what limit the class list for to make things simple. I just don't know what books to use. I can always pull crazy stuff from other books but i don't what the PCs doing that with out an awesome RP reason.

Books i know wil be in it are the Core 3, Lords of madness, PHB2 thats as far as i got so far

[Lord Il Palazzo]

You could just give your players the general categories that are forbidden and then apply it case by case. If you wanted to add some spice, say that there's a small chance more obscure spells could have been overlooked and roll a D20 whenever they try a spell that's on the borderline between being on the list and not; on a certain roll (whatever odds you think would be fun/fair/interesting), the guy who made the items didn't think of that one and the spell works.

[PaigeXenon]

So crazy idea about the actual setup of the arena. As i was designing the city it ended up being built at the base of some mountains. I figure that the arena and "Combatant" housing (slavery is frowned upon and punishable in the kingdom guards have been bribed and the common people think its a volunteer thingy) could be build inside the mountain its self.

[BowStreetRunner]

So crazy idea about the actual setup of the arena. As i was designing the city it ended up being built at the base of some mountains. I figure that the arena and "Combatant" housing (slavery is frowned upon and punishable in the kingdom guards have been bribed and the common people think its a volunteer thingy) could be build inside the mountain its self.

Kind of like Petranaki Arena (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Petranaki_arena) on Geonosis in Attack of the Clones? That would be cool.

Keep in mind, many abberation civilizations dwell underground, so you could include tunnels accessing the underdark directly from the arena complex.

Edit: I just took a look at the cutaway view (http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/7/7f/ITW2_Petranaki.jpg) on the page linked above and am even more impressed by this idea than I was before.

[PaigeXenon]

thats sorta what i was thinking but completely enclosed under the mountains.

the tunnel to the underdark is how they get the slaves from the neogi as well as any exotic critters. It will probably the best way out off the city once the war starts

[Lord Il Palazzo]

So crazy idea about the actual setup of the arena. As i was designing the city it ended up being built at the base of some mountains. I figure that the arena and "Combatant" housing (slavery is frowned upon and punishable in the kingdom guards have been bribed and the common people think its a volunteer thingy) could be build inside the mountain its self.That's a pretty cool idea and makes escaping difficult (fly and whatnot are out). Like BowStreetRunner said, keep in mind what else might be living on or in the mountains as there could be some potential for interesting plot hooks there. Mmaybe a band of some deep dwelling species break through into the complex and the "combatants" are pressed into service defending it. This could even give a good diversion for an escape storyline, as well as a format for the adventure that follows with the PCs fighting their ways through tunnels full of unknown enemies looking for a way back to the surface. (Derro can be fun mysterious underground dwellers with their awesome charisma and the whole racial insanity thing.)

[PaigeXenon]

After the arena want them to go in to the tunnels where they either a broken portal or the last peice/key for one to the Tsochar homeworld that the BBEG and his cult are trying to open back up

[Lord Il Palazzo]

After the arena want them to go in to the tunnels where they either a broken portal or the last peice/key for one to the Tsochar homeworld that the BBEG and his cult are trying to open back upThat sounds like a good start. Are your players going to have some way to know about the Big Bad at this point, or will it just be some neat portal/artifact they found that turns them toward a new/bigger adventure (findng and stopping the cult, I'd guess)?

[PaigeXenon]

I am unsure if i will have them run into the cult attemting to fix the gate or if i want them to have a very magical item and then get hunted for it and it turns out to be a key to a portal thing somplace else

[PaigeXenon]

If i am going to head to the underdark with this campaign what kind of safe havens would the PCs likely run across? from what I have seen everything in the underdark is some kind of nuts evil and would probably kill the party for fun.

I have decided that the players will have no idea about the cult when they find the component for the gate/portal thingy. the artifact will have a strong compulsion effect on it making them want to pick it up and maybe bestow a suggestion or put who ever picks it up under a Geas to complete the portal with the artifact.

ok so far i have
1) the start as neogi slaves being sold to a gladiator/arena for fighting
2) 2-3 training fights to see how the new slaves are worth these will be large melee fights between the new slaves and some veteran combatants
3) standard party-party arena matches winning gets them rewarded and some single use/ flashy items to use for future matches(can volunteer for 1-1 matches for personal rewards.
4)City is attacked/ they escape and find their way down the tunnel to the underdark .... insanity insues


let me know if i have missed anything or if the PCs should be doing things differently

[BowStreetRunner]

If i am going to head to the underdark with this campaign what kind of safe havens would the PCs likely run across?

A Gulgar (MM3) mining camp. A Mountain Dwarf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dwarf.htm) trading post. A Deep Dwarf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dwarf.htm) settlement. A Deep Gnome/Svirfneblin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnome.htm) city. A Myconid (MM2) village. A Deep Halfling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfling.htm) trade caravan.

And don't forget the old adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". You could easily put the PCs in the path someone willing to help the PCs out of some desire to hurt the Neogi. (When I DM I always take particular pleasure in putting PCs in the position of pawns in a conflict between two powerful enemies.)

[PaigeXenon]

The Neogi are not the main BBEGs but they could have a huge part later on if the PCs decide they want to hunt down the slavers who captured them. My Plan is that the BBEGs are a Tsochar and his cult well the only in the world new strands from its egg clutches are some how unable to form new beings they go insane and die with in few months it can however absorb them Doing so has made him rather eccentric and mad.