DMs & optimizers. . .You are what you eat (Illithid Savant)

[AWiz_Abroad]

Hey all,

I'm looking for advice from all the DMs out there, as well as optimizers of all flavorful stripes.

I've got a LG "stout" Illithid15/Monk1/Sorcerer14. Outcast from his culture, he's a fairly jolly fellow who just has a thing for brains, willing prefered, but if not enemy brains. Called the fiendeater (working title for the character). Highly optimized for grappling.

Yes, it's epic play, and I'm wanting to go illithid Savant, but its a new campaign, so I haven't eaten anything in character.

For the optimizers, if you had to eat any of the published monsters, which would they be and why?. Power is appreciated, and no using PAO to eat constructs/brainless things.

For the DMs, what would be your amount of cheese tolerance as far as which beasts you would allow your players to have already eaten?

I'm trying to get a baseline on both sides, so I can present it to my DM and come up with a balanced solution.

[Flickerdart]

At that CR, what's stopping everything from just having Freedom of Movement? After all, it's dirt cheap by that point.

[Malroth]

Dumb luck and Stealth Kills, 14 sorcorer spells can have enough Divination available to tell who hasn't cast their 24 hr long buffs yet or that this other demon is getting freedom of movement from a sunder able item.

[docnessuno]

Considering epic is in play:

Phane: Summon Past time duplicate
Gibbering Orb: Eye rays
Ha-Naga: Spells
Hagunemnom: Alter shape

[AWiz_Abroad]

It absolutely is a good counter. We've got a house rule which gives increasing bonuses to freedom of movement, greater freedom of movement, and superior freedom of movement(Increasing bonuses to the check rather than immunity). We also add double strength mod to grapple checks, and double dex for escape artist.

I realize this isn't an optimized build. ECL15 without any class levels is PAINFUL. He was really just an idea rattling around my noggin.

[mregecko]

Hey all,

I'm looking for advice from all the DMs out there, as well as optimizers of all flavorful stripes.

I've got a LG "stout" Illithid15/Monk1/Sorcerer14. Outcast from his culture, he's a fairly jolly fellow who just has a thing for brains, willing prefered, but if not enemy brains. Called the fiendeater (working title for the character). Highly optimized for grappling.

Yes, it's epic play, and I'm wanting to go illithid Savant, but its a new campaign, so I haven't eaten anything in character.

For the optimizers, if you had to eat any of the published monsters, which would they be and why?. Power is appreciated, and no using PAO to eat constructs/brainless things.

For the DMs, what would be your amount of cheese tolerance as far as which beasts you would allow your players to have already eaten?

I'm trying to get a baseline on both sides, so I can present it to my DM and come up with a balanced solution.

Just going to throw this out there.... At Epic levels, I assume everything has permanent Freedom of Movement. The only way I see around that if you're going into a grapple build is dispelling or AMF. That could be a start.

EDIT: So super ninja'd.

[hymer]

How about a pale master and a troll? The trolls gets you regeneration, so you treat all damage save fire and acid as nonlethal. Then Tough as Bone from palemaster, to give you immunity to nonlethal. Add some rings of energy immunity.
Of course, you need to swallow some spellcaster's brain, obviously.

I just gotta ask one thing: "a thing for brains, willing prefered" you write...

Who willingly gives up their brains?

[AWiz_Abroad]

Well of course, someone who gets a true resurrection and some GP out of the deal.

That would be another fun one, how much would the DMs charge for someone to sell their brain?

Also Troll for regenerate is lovely, as is pale master.

I am not familiar with the epic monsters, I am guessing you're going for power, not sanity with your suggestions, but I'll crack the books when I get home to look at them

[hymer]

Yeah, they're gonna trust the tentacled guy who wants to eat their brain to wake them up after. And not to divulge all their dirty little secrets. Not to mention the horror factor of letting someone crack open your skull...
But hey, people do crazy things.

[umbergod]

How about a pale master and a troll? The trolls gets you regeneration, so you treat all damage save fire and acid as nonlethal. Then Tough as Bone from palemaster, to give you immunity to nonlethal. Add some rings of energy immunity.
Of course, you need to swallow some spellcaster's brain, obviously.

I just gotta ask one thing: "a thing for brains, willing prefered" you write...

Who willingly gives up their brains?

You'd be surprised what kind of things people might enjoy or want to do. Some people have fetish fantasies where they are cooked and eaten.

[AWiz_Abroad]

heh, I should work out a commission with your local good aligned church to send a squad of clerics to come and stand over the illithid casting detect evil, and fingering their maces.

[Annos]

I remember reading in some Plane related book "Written on this portal is "Wizard Brains taste the best" and written beneath it by a different person "yes they do"" A quote within a quote :smallbiggrin:

[Crake]

Screw troll regeneration, look into eating a tarrasque brain, getting its regeneration 40 vs everything.

Also, the real question is why did you go sorcerer instead of psion. If you had gone psion you could get thrallherd which essentially lets you get infinite feats, skills, class features and racial abilities of your thrall, since you get a new one every 24 hours after they die at no penalty for consecutive deaths.

[AWiz_Abroad]

Sorcerer vs psion b/c I wanted to pump grapple, and nearly all those spells are sorcerer. Also I have virtually no psionic system mastery

[hymer]

@ Crake: War troll brains are better than troll brains, come to think of it (only acid works there, IIRC). Getting the tarrasque's brain isn't a sure thing (there may be no such thing in the campaign, actually eating it would take days, it only comes out to get eaten every now and again), but getting troll brains is a simple matter. Anway, you want regeneration for the nonlethal damage thing more than for the actual amount you regenerate. That's just icing on the cake.

[AWiz_Abroad]

Considering epic is in play:

Phane: Summon Past time duplicate
Gibbering Orb: Eye rays
Ha-Naga: Spells
Hagunemnom: Alter shape

So. . . How precisely can one eat the brain of an incorporeal phane? Really really cool monster, but slightly problematic.

Gibbering orb is cool, but I believe IS doesn't give you abilities you don't have the appendages for.

Hagunemnom is going to be a tight one, as far as beating the grapple, but that alter self is ridiculous. 4Ex abilities, and probably allowing gibbering orb.

Ha Naga is a beauty, and I easily exceed the grapple check by over 20

[AWiz_Abroad]

@ Crake: War troll brains are better than troll brains, come to think of it (only acid works there, IIRC). Getting the tarrasque's brain isn't a sure thing (there may be no such thing in the campaign, actually eating it would take days, it only comes out to get eaten every now and again), but getting troll brains is a simple matter. Anway, you want regeneration for the nonlethal damage thing more than for the actual amount you regenerate. That's just icing on the cake.

War Troll is probably the level of awesome my illithid would've consumed, any other suggestions? (Black dragon for acid immunity maybe?)

Assuming black dragon + war troll, what other beasts should I have already eaten?

[hymer]

How about a choker? Don't they get bonus actions? An efreeti brain ought to be tasty, too, at least until you get something better.

[Wings of Peace]

The following would be my nominations for most potent options:

Aleax immortality (preferably taking from an Aleax hunting -you-)

Demi-Lich spell immunity

Greensnake Naga telepathy (in conjunction with the Mindsight Feat)

Immoth frost runes (in conjunction with the feat Arcane Preparation)

Tarrasque Regeneration (in conjunction with immunity to non-lethal damage)

Phaerimm spellcasting (just don't forget they count as spell-likes)

Beguiler true seeing (the monster from Shining South not the class)

Any class or prestige class feature that enhances your spellcasting (see the Incantatrix, Mind Mage, Tainted Scholar, Planar Shepard, Blood Magus, and
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil for good examples)

Any racial trait or class feature that grants a slew of immunities (see Warforged Juggernaut for a good example).

[mattie_p]

I remember reading in some Plane related book "Written on this portal is "Wizard Brains taste the best" and written beneath it by a different person "yes they do"" A quote within a quote :smallbiggrin:

Forgotten Realms Underdark, p52 (close enough that I don't need to post the actual text). :smallbiggrin:

[Talderas]

Who willingly gives up their brains?

People who commit suicide in a manner explicitly designed to preserve that delicious grey matter.

[killem2]

I forget what they are called, but they grant one wish a year I think they start with a Z

[Battleship789]

I forget what they are called, but they grant one wish a year I think they start with a Z

Zodar, from Fiend Folio.

[Kazyan]

Hagunemnom is going to be a tight one, as far as beating the grapple, but that alter self is ridiculous. 4Ex abilities, and probably allowing gibbering orb.

You grabbed it while it was being a scorpion-salamander or something, if you really want Alter Shape. But don't get it. Why?

Because it's in the top 10 most powerful abilities in D&D. Seriously. It would just be too easy.

Go Colossal with 5 tentacles and Pounce / Improved Grab / Savage Grapple (Black Blood Cultist) while emitting an (Ex) AMF from a Colossus. Or get any (Ex) ability from any class or prestige class, ever. What say you to +13d6 SA from a Gloom, while Fine with a fly speed of 200, 5 natural weapons and a DC 40+ Poison? And that's just the silly cases. Big T Regeneration + thing with nonlethal immunity = no, I'm invincible now. Did you know that Singular Enemy, the thing that makes Aleaxes broken, is (Ex)?

I'm sure this forum can come up with other stuff.