Magic Item to recover XP?

[barna10]

I read in a thread hear awhile back about a magic item that let you "remember" your xp after you spent it to cast a spell/make an item/etc. Anyone know what magic item this is and where to find it?

[Cruiser1]

I read in a thread hear awhile back about a magic item that let you "remember" your xp after you spent it to cast a spell/make an item/etc. Anyone know what magic item this is and where to find it?
That's the infamous "Thought Bottle": Complete Arcane page 150.

[barna10]

Thanks much!

[Iku Rex]

I read in a thread hear awhile back about a magic item that let you "remember" your xp after you spent it to cast a spell/make an item/etc.

Note that the purpose of the thought bottle is not to restore XP lost from making an item or casting a spell. Using it that way is extremely cheesy, and most GMs won't allow it.


Protip if your GM does allow this sort of thing: Store all your gold in a bank, spend said gold on magic items, then restore your gold from the bank's vaults. Repeat.

[barna10]

Note that the purpose of the thought bottle is not to restore XP lost from making an item or casting a spell. Using it that way is extremely cheesy, and most GMs won't allow it.


Protip if your GM does allow this sort of thing: Store all your gold in a bank, spend said gold on magic items, then restore your gold from the bank's vaults. Repeat.

I don't see how you could disallow it unless you just didn't allow the magic item. RAW it is allowable.

Granted it is one of the stupidest magic items I have seen in my 26 years of D&D, but RAW it is allowable.

[mattie_p]

I don't see how you could disallow it unless you just didn't allow the magic item. RAW it is allowable.

Granted it is one of the stupidest magic items I have seen in my 26 years of D&D, but RAW it is allowable.

It is a stupid (stupidly good) magic item, and therefore (in my opinion) should be house-ruled or banned in most games.

[barna10]

It is way too cheap, number 1.

[mattie_p]

What price would you recommend, then, for it to be used as written, but not be overpowered? To create a thought bottle, per RAW, it costs 10k in gp and 800 xp (and CL 13). At what level should a character get access to it?

And once you set a recommended level, could you imagine any spellcaster not go out of their way to get one beforehand at any cost?

[Iku Rex]

I don't see how you could disallow it unless you just didn't allow the magic item.

Of course you could disallow that usage while still allowing the magic item. The item has several other uses beyond XP-storage, and the expressed purpose of the XP-storage function is to "offset level loss". (You can't lose a level from crafting or casting spells.) Banning silly shenanigans with magic item crafting or wish leaves the item just as good or bad as the designer intended (IMO) it to be.



RAW it is allowable.
Arguably, yes, but even that depends on a "the rules don't say I can't!"-argument. RAW you "store" your XP in the bottle. Basic understanding of English suggests that if you have "stored" something somewhere, you can't use it up and expect to recover it from storage afterwards.

Thus, you have to convince the GM to disregard or be flexible about the written rule stating that your XP is "stored".

Example: You can't store your gold in a bank, spend it, then restore your gold from the bank. Even if you found a rule for banks in a DnD book where the game designer didn't realize that people would argue that you could still spend your stored gold because "the rules don't say I can't!"...

[Cicciograna]

I've never understood why this item is considered cheesy.


A thought bottle can be used to offset level loss as a restoration spell can, but is effective against level loss that even restoration can’t undo (including levels lost due to death, but not the negative levels bestowed by magic items such as a holy weapon). When a user’s experience has been stored within the bottle, he can subsequently access the bottle to restore his XP total to exactly what it was when it was last stored, negating any levels lost in the interim.
Emphasis mine.

The decription clearly states that the Thought bottle can restore XP lost as the effect of a lost level, as Restoration does, and the only other instance that is presented is the level loss caused by death. No mention of other sources of level loss. Moreover, I seem to recall that the creation of a magic item or the casting of a spell requiring XP cannot cause the loss of a level, so the Tought bottle shouldn't be able to restore said XP.

[LTwerewolf]

I've never understood why this item is considered cheesy.


Emphasis mine.

The decription clearly states that the Thought bottle can restore XP lost as the effect of a lost level, as Restoration does, and the only other instance that is presented is the level loss caused by death. No mention of other sources of level loss. Moreover, I seem to recall that the creation of a magic item or the casting of a spell requiring XP cannot cause the loss of a level, so the Tought bottle shouldn't be able to restore said XP.



When a user’s experience has been stored
within the bottle, he can subsequently access the bottle to
restore his XP total to exactly what it was when it was last
stored, negating any levels lost in the interim.

Believe they're talking about that clause. The one you emphasized does not exclude the next sentence. It doesn't specify that it HAS to be a lost level, or how that is lost.

[Mithril Leaf]

I've never understood why this item is considered cheesy.


Emphasis mine.

The decription clearly states that the Thought bottle can restore XP lost as the effect of a lost level, as Restoration does, and the only other instance that is presented is the level loss caused by death. No mention of other sources of level loss. Moreover, I seem to recall that the creation of a magic item or the casting of a spell requiring XP cannot cause the loss of a level, so the Tought bottle shouldn't be able to restore said XP.

Or you could use the Do The Wight Thing trick detailed here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1187.0) subbing in the thought bottle for psionic restoration. I think you can at least.

[Cicciograna]

Again, one should deliberately ignore the first part of the description, where it says that the bottle can offset the level loss, so there must be a level loss to be offset. Its works as restoration and even more, but the only given example of its additional capabilities is to offset the XP lost at death. No mention of magic item creation or casting of spells. MOREOVER, since casting a spell and creating a magic item cannot result in a level loss, the bottle cannot be used to recover the expended XP.

Uhm, I see only one way it could work:


Store 1 XP in the bottle;
cast the XP draining spell / craft the magic item;
get level drained by a level-draining creature;
recover the XP to offset the level lost: as per the description, XP total [i] to exactly what it was when it was last stored, thus the initial amount of XP;
?????
Profit!


Okay, it's cheesy.

EDIT: swordsaged. PsyRogued :smallwink:

[Mithril Leaf]

EDIT: swordsaged.

Since it's from a psionic handbook, technically I'm a psionic rogue :smallwink:

[Wookie-ranger]

Just thought about something:

How would this work with the Artificers Crafting XP reserve?
It is XP after all, and the description never said that you cannot! :smallbiggrin: